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    Jump Festa 2016 (19-20 December): One Piece Stage

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    • B
      Boing @Greg
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      @Greg:

      I guess it's just amazing to me that anyone reading One Piece for longer than 14 years or so could see Sanji as being anything other than a shadow of his former self.
      The fanbase over here, who will give their fav. characters the benefit of the doubt in any scenario, even wholeheartedly agree that Sanji has been held held back. That's not to see he's been weak since the time-skip, just, he has NOT had a chance to shine like he did in the past. The closest he came was going fisticuffs with Doffy but that was clearly conceived to give Sanji fans something to gnaw on until we got to….well....here basically.

      I legitimately really enjoyed his character, I even played close attention to him post timeskip on my two re reads and he's the same Sanji that I, personally always loved.
      And the moments that people use against him like Vergo, Wadatsumi, and Doflamingo I loved.
      Keep in mind that I'm also a Coby, Bellamy, and Nami who all get a lot of hate are in my top five characters and that Bellamy was my favorite part of Dressrosa, so maybe I just process things differently.

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      • Watch-man
        Watch-man @Razh
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        @Razh:

        I miss cool Sanji.

        Yeah, would be weird if Sheepy is Jack's second in command. I wouldn't neccessarily expect from someone in that rank to kick Sanji's ass, but maybe at least not get beaten up by Sanji with ease. He was kinda blindsided, though, so maybe he is actually stronger than it seems. It's not without precedent in OP.

        If somebody like Doflamingo comments on strength of Sanji kicks
        http://www.mangastream.to/one-piece-chapter-725-page-8.html

        Then even somebody like Sheepshead who should be around pre-timeskip Supernova level to be actually a boss of group of special underlings - should go instantly KOed if hit directly by barrage of Sanji kicks..

        Razh 1 Reply Last reply Reply Quote 0
        • R
          Ruijerd @Greg
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          @Greg:

          Every Sanji fan abroad and pretty much EVERY Japanese fan is dying to see badass Sanji make a return. We just don't suffer any delusions that he's been used as anything other than a punchline for this long.

          I'm certain that there will be a very unexpected and hilarious twist to his birth but I also believe Oda is going to deliver. Look, when Sanji left with the crew, it was exactly that.

          But he hasn't left with the crew this time. This reeks of his old solo missions which, admittedly, we're getting tired at the time. Oda waited just long enough for us to be chomping at the bit for that side of Sanji.

          Hasn't been used as anything other than punchline? This is factually wrong, he had several badass moments after the time-skip, in every single arc, all those can be easily pointed out from the manga.

          Also thanks to Robby for completely proving my point:
          Random single panel of Zoro attacking Fujitora = Fuck Sanji.
          Sanji saves the lives Brook, Nami and Chopper from Doflamingo and is recognized as strong by him = fuck Sanji plus obligatory "hype tool", which you have no idea what actually means, It seems you think every conflict between characters is meant to hype one of them, that's not how it works.
          Sanji saves Tashigi, G5, makes Vergo bleed all over and has an unfinished fight where he wasn't actually defeated nor went all out = fuck Sanji
          It's hilarious how far you go to downplay literally EVERY cool moment Sanji has with nonsensical excuses, your post is even littered with events that didn't actually happened, seriously "He was left unable to fight, and had to run away", you have to be trolling at this point.
          If there's anyone delusional it's clearly the ones who excessively complain about Sanji.

          Robby RobZilla Greg 3 Replies Last reply Reply Quote 0
          • Watch-man
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            If Sanji is from royal family..

            If he will get famous and stronger than he already is..

            He has chance to get Color of Conqueror haki ?

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            • Razh
              Razh @Watch-man
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              @Watch-man:

              If somebody like Doflamingo comments on strength of Sanji kicks
              http://www.mangastream.to/one-piece-chapter-725-page-8.html

              Then even somebody like Sheepshead who should be around pre-timeskip Supernova level to be actually a boss of group of special underlings - should go instantly KOed if hit directly by barrage of Sanji kicks..

              There are a lot of ways not to get beaten up. Tanking attacks is just one of them.

              Maybe block some of the damage with ox horns or notice someone is coming and dodge. Or jump backwards to not get hit with full force. But you know, everyone can get surprised.

              Originally Posted by Outerspec

              Trying to understand Bleach is like trying to drink a bottle of bleach.

              It makes no sense and you'll be dead before you're finished.

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              • King Cannon
                King Cannon @Horizon
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                @Horizon:

                And Law helped Luffy with Doffy so why count his win in your previous post & not Sanji's? Both were tag team fights.

                Sanji and Jinbe vs. Wadatsumi was pretty much a 2 vs. 1. Sanji and Jinbe had the numerical advantage. Wadatsumi only had size. Never mind that Jinbe by himself made the Wadatsumi fight ridiculously unwinnable for the latter.

                Luffy and Law vs. Doula Mongo, Trebol and Bellamy was a 2 vs. 3. Luffy and Law had the numerical disadvantage. Don't ignore the fact that both Bellamy and Trebol helped Doula wear down Luffy and Law respectively when he managed to separate them.

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                • Mr. Luffy
                  Mr. Luffy @DARK_RITUAL
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                  One day we someone is going to do a full clinical retroactive study of Sanji's descent into madness once the series concludes. Perhaps it started when Bon Kurei started to mess with his mind? Being driven to impotence through his own chivalry when facing Kalifa? Seeing his deepest desire and subconscious motivation shatter upon seeing Kokoro as his first mermaid contact? Essentially looking at a criminally insane reflection of himself when meeting Absalom? Then driven mad through his own his own fears (and possible hidden desires) of emasculation for 2 years on Kammabakka?

                  The timeskip reunion is essentially a fractured personality desperately trying to reestablish himself as a Straw Hat and in society as a whole. The sudden shocks of seeing Hancock and a veritable harem of mermaids shocked his already strained mind to suffer actual physical impairment. Now Chopper notices what a wreck of a man Sanji has become and begins his case study, attempting to shield his fragile mind of his dangerously sensuous surroundings.

                  His efforts appear to rehabilitate him until a fateful day on Punk Hazard where another deeper fantasy is realized–being mentally transplanted into Nami's body. Naturally his unstable mind struggles between maintaining some form of self-control and indulging in impulses driven by pure id. While it seems all is lost at this point, this very curse also acted as a remedy in that something that was once a source of obsession eventually became mundane to the point where he was able to essentially transform himself back to his old confident self in this beauteous form. While his transformation back is a bit of a shock, he is not overly sullen over it.

                  Yet his romantic fantasies are not abated, because he soon crosses paths with Tashigi and her men. Suddenly stuck with a damsel in distress scenario he rushes to their aid in reckless abandon and nearly crippling himself in the face of a far more rational and cool-headed foe. Miraculously he manages to distract him and fulfill his wish in rescuing Tashigi and her men. So taken in by this fantasy he doesn't realize that she is a Naval Officer who normally has orders to take him and his friends in custody dead or alive. Yet caught unawares by this brazenly chivalrous act, both her and her men too forget the Naval Code and join forces with the love-crazed rogue, turning his fantasy into reality. This confusion lasts up to the point where they part ways, reasserting Sanji's self image.

                  The most recent stage seems to be the more defining beginning with his infatuation and romantic experience with Violet. While casually entranced by her rhythmic dancing, he suddenly finds himself thrust into the role of a knight in shining armor protecting a fair maiden who went so far as to come to him out of the blue. In almost complete awe and joy at his good fortune, he completely forgets his mission and becomes putty in her hands. Yet instead of a knight he's more like a slave, doing virtually anything for even the slightest romantic gesture in return, even going so far as to murder a complete stranger on command. His will is no longer his own and the romance is completely one-sided.

                  With his rational mind completely smothered by such an overwhelming fantasy, yet again a handicap becomes an asset when Violet unmasks herself and begins to torture the deluded Sanji for information. Given how detached from reality he has become, he can speak of nothing but his romantic dreams and thoughts of her. At one point he becomes rational enough to at least discern that she is in deeper trouble than she has let on. Fed up with this seeming jest, she peers in his mind to seek the truth. Yet what she finds is a ravaged mind completely consumed with with romantic fantasy. Stunned she looks away, instinctively fearing that gazing any longer may reduce her to a vegetative state. However, she found a sort of purity in the madness she never knew existed in the mind of man and becomes another who has succumbed to his romantic fantasy.

                  This leads to her divulging information about her plight and causing Sanji to suddenly remember what his captain ordered him to do. While still not completely free of Violet's charm, he nonetheless aids his crew with vital info and physically comes to the rescue after Violet implants him with the image of an endangered Nami. Acting completely on instinct, Sanji reaches Doflanimgo just in the nick of time and at a speed scarcely assumed humanely possible. Yet the combination of the strain of reaching Doflamingo in time and his clouded mind made him little more than a nuisance to Doflamingo than anything.

                  The sudden shock of nearly being executed by Doflamingo and being among his crewmates again appears to have snapped Sanji back to normal for the first part. This in addition to being thrust into a position of crew responsibility he has never held before. So far he seems to behaving like his old rational, self-confident self. Even Chopper has deemed him mentally fit for command.

                  Only time will tell how long this will last and if he's on the road to recovery as the rest of Sanji's adventures come to light.

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                  • U
                    uniaka ikuzakas @Razh
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                    Prediction time: I think the reason why Sanji doesn't hurt women is because his mother got killed in front of him when he was small.

                    https://imgur.com/MyjRSWw

                    Mr. Luffy DARK_RITUAL 2 Replies Last reply Reply Quote 0
                    • Mr. Luffy
                      Mr. Luffy @uniaka ikuzakas
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                      @uniaka:

                      Prediction time: I think the reason why Sanji doesn't hurt women is because his mother got killed in front of him when he was small.

                      Okay, this is one aspect I hope isn't dissected in the series much beyond a "gentlemans' code" he adopted. I mean, he considers it as such and I don't think there is any darker trauma or such linked to it.

                      However, we may get a broader answer on what made him become so chivalrous. I have doubts he picked that up from Zeff, aside from maybe a zen-like adherence to being the perfect waiter which eventually became second nature.

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                      • Razh
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                        I'd rather attribute it to Zeff's upbringing as well. He did work in a restaurant and they have a strict code of conduct. Old school, if you will.

                        I'm actually fine if there's no deeper meaning behind every thing a character does.

                        But I won't dismiss a chance he has seen women or a woman treated poorly at some time, prior to ending up with Zeff.

                        Originally Posted by Outerspec

                        Trying to understand Bleach is like trying to drink a bottle of bleach.

                        It makes no sense and you'll be dead before you're finished.

                        King Cannon MarcelloF 2 Replies Last reply Reply Quote 0
                        • King Cannon
                          King Cannon @Razh
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                          @Razh:

                          I'd rather attribute it to Zeff's upbringing as well. He did work in a restaurant and they have a strict code of conduct. Old school, if you will.

                          I'm actually fine if there's no deeper meaning behind every thing a character does.

                          But I won't dismiss a chance he has seen women or a woman treated poorly at some time, prior to ending up with Zeff.

                          Oda was once asked in a SBS if Zeff was the reason for that once, and the answer implied it was something else.

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                          • MarcelloF
                            MarcelloF @Razh
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                            @Razh:

                            I'd rather attribute it to Zeff's upbringing as well. He did work in a restaurant and they have a strict code of conduct. Old school, if you will.

                            I think you and I are remembering a different Baratie.

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                            • T
                              Tyrano
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                              Sanji is Doflamingo's son.

                              3DS Friend Code: 3196 - 6799 - 6143

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                              • Robby
                                Robby @Ruijerd
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                                @Ruijerd:

                                It's hilarious how far you go to downplay literally EVERY cool moment Sanji has with nonsensical excuses, your post is even littered with events that didn't actually happened, seriously "He was left unable to fight, and had to run away", you have to be trolling at this point.
                                If there's anyone delusional it's clearly the ones who excessively complain about Sanji.

                                I havent read the arc since it happened. It's been three, almost four years. I remembered Sanji shattering his leg, and not being the one to beat Vergo in any way, combined with Vergo being unstppable until Law beat him. pardon me for forgetting a detail.

                                This around the same time as him groping Nami's body… and Zoro getting to finish the fight he was in. (ANd Zoro completely overwhelmed his opponent without trying, Sanji was having a hard time with his.)

                                And he hasn't won a single fight on his own since Enies Lobby, (where he first horribly lost a fight) unless you count Duval and that entire scenario was also an insult to Sanji. Even his fight against Absalom he didn't finish the job, Nami had to do it later.

                                Sanji saves Tashigi, G5, makes Vergo bleed all over and has an unfinished fight where he wasn't actually defeated nor went all out = fuck Sanji

                                And Zoro saved them from Monet. Chopper and Robin helped fight the rampaging children. Franky went outside and stomped Baby 5 and Buffallo. Law dealt with the Yeti brother. Brownbeard got them away from the cloud of death. Everyone did stuff.

                                The point isn't that Sanji did nothing, its that he didn't do anything special or really accomplish anything with any lasting effect.

                                Sanji saves the lives Brook, Nami and Chopper from Doflamingo and is recognized as strong by him = fuck Sanji plus obligatory "hype tool", which you have no idea what actually means, It seems you think every conflict between characters is meant to hype one of them, that's not how it works.

                                And Brook saved all of them from Jora. And Usopp saved them all from Perona. Robin assisted in like 5 different fights during Dresserossa. Everyone saves everyone along the way. That in and of itself isn't a big deal.

                                Did you miss the part where I said being separated from the rest of the crew is what has allowed him to not be terrible for the first time in years, by being the only strong character in the group? By being with the weak characters, he finally gets to shine someway instead of having to hit and run on a big character and then leave them for someone else to deal with.

                                And yes. In most cases, clashes are meant to show that someone has a threat level. The only thing Sanji has done for years is get a hit or two in, and then leave to do something else. For a variety of reasons, he's not been allowed to actually do anything as the top three powerhouse he's supposed to be.

                                WHile taking his awful pervert joke to extremes and treating him awfully all around.

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                                • RobZilla
                                  RobZilla
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                                  @Ruijerd
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                                  @Ruijerd:

                                  Hasn't been used as anything other than punchline? This is factually wrong, he had several badass moments after the time-skip, in every single arc, all those can be easily pointed out from the manga.

                                  Also thanks to Robby for completely proving my point:
                                  Random single panel of Zoro attacking Fujitora = Fuck Sanji.
                                  Sanji saves the lives Brook, Nami and Chopper from Doflamingo and is recognized as strong by him = fuck Sanji plus obligatory "hype tool", which you have no idea what actually means, It seems you think every conflict between characters is meant to hype one of them, that's not how it works.
                                  Sanji saves Tashigi, G5, makes Vergo bleed all over and has an unfinished fight where he wasn't actually defeated nor went all out = fuck Sanji
                                  It's hilarious how far you go to downplay literally EVERY cool moment Sanji has with nonsensical excuses, your post is even littered with events that didn't actually happened, seriously "He was left unable to fight, and had to run away", you have to be trolling at this point.
                                  If there's anyone delusional it's clearly the ones who excessively complain about Sanji.

                                  Do you genuinely think Sanji has been showcased effectively post-timeskip?

                                  In comparison to how he was portrayed in the first half of the series?

                                  …seriously?

                                  He's had some nice moments, sure, but nothing like the kind of stuff we became accustomed to him delivering pre-timeskip.

                                  Especially when we look at all the stuff Zoro, his commonly portayed rival and nigh-equal, has done in the second half of the series.

                                  _"_Now! This is it! Now is the time to choose! Die and be free of pain or live and fight your sorrow! Now is the time to shape your stories! Your fate is in your hands!" - Auron

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                                  • Watch-man
                                    Watch-man @Razh
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                                    @Razh:

                                    There are a lot of ways not to get beaten up. Tanking attacks is just one of them.

                                    Maybe block some of the damage with ox horns or notice someone is coming and dodge. Or jump backwards to not get hit with full force. But you know, everyone can get surprised.

                                    Sanji was fast enough to suprise Doflamingo enough to make him block a kick instead of his usual dodge.. Sheepshead is just a guy in middle of food chain, Strawhats are aiming straight at the top.

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                                      uniaka ikuzakas @Watch-man
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                                      I think smoker as rival of luffy got it worse then sanji. First time we see his post time skip self and he got defeated by law, vergo and Doflamingo more then easy in the very same island.

                                      Trifecta right there.

                                      https://imgur.com/MyjRSWw

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                                      • Razh
                                        Razh @MarcelloF
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                                        @MarcelloF:

                                        I think you and I are remembering a different Baratie.

                                        I meant towards guests.

                                        Polite ones, anyway.

                                        –- Update From New Post Merge ---

                                        @King:

                                        Oda was once asked in a SBS if Zeff was the reason for that once, and the answer implied it was something else.

                                        Probably missed it. Or forgot.

                                        –- Update From New Post Merge ---

                                        @Watch-man:

                                        Sanji was fast enough to suprise Doflamingo enough to make him block a kick instead of his usual dodge.. Sheepshead is just a guy in middle of food chain, Strawhats are aiming straight at the top.

                                        Don't know why you drag poor Dofla back. It's irrelevant.

                                        Just because someone is "mid-tear", doesn't have to mean they have to be completely incompetent. All these dangerous NW pirates aren't amounting to much, honestly. If it's going to be only strong captains with fodder crew, it won't be especially interesting for long.

                                        Originally Posted by Outerspec

                                        Trying to understand Bleach is like trying to drink a bottle of bleach.

                                        It makes no sense and you'll be dead before you're finished.

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                                        • sggupta
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                                          oh boy.i think this thread needs to be renamed to "Character Case Study:Sanji".
                                          before i write my feelings about how sanji has been shown since enies lobby,i think there's one thing people have to just accept:sanji is basically the embodiment of chivalry(or kishido).also,he is deeply attracted to women,on every level.that's just who he is.if you just can't accept the basic idea that men and women can be treated differently(as they are everywhere in real world),and one piece is not the imaginary world where there is complete gender equality,then you just can't like him by default.
                                          also,sanji doesn't just care about women.he is actually quite a caring and emotional person.it's just the way he shows his emotions is different for men and women.most recent example:kinemon.he was the only one who could see the resolve in kinemon's eyes,and decided to help him
                                          as to why he is deeply attracted to them,i think that's because he is a sailor.you know,the ones who spent almost their whole lives on sea,and didn't live with women,as women were rarely on seas(and were also considered bad luck).so,ever since he was small,has hasn't been around women much.the only times he probably interacted with them was when they came as customers.
                                          also,all of the men at baratie were basically only tsundere to each other,never showing how they really feel as they just don't.so,to compensate for that,he is overly attracted to and honest with women
                                          so,imo sanji is the product of all that.though now that we are going to know more about sanji's past,so we may get another perspective also.
                                          with that out of the way,here it goes.
                                          Enies Lobby:El was where his full chivalrous determination was shown with kalifa,so either you like it or just hate it.all depends on how open minded you are
                                          aside from that,i think he had some pretty cool moments.the whole train part was quite awesome i think.the fight against jabura was quite stellar.and he was the one who motivated usopp with some pretty great dialogue.
                                          in thriller bark,he pretty much gave absalom an ass kicking,even though he had the disadvantage of having to protect nami.he couldn't complete the fight only because absalom ran away.considering it was the most one sided fight in the entire arc,don't know why people complain.i just can't see the pervert dream stuff as nothing more than having a humorous background to the fight(pretty similar to sai's fight,i might add)
                                          both zoro and sanji's zombies were idiotic,it seems people just want pinpoint non existent things.
                                          though he was sidelined by zoro in the end,though in my case i just see it as sacrifice not being sanji's role(except for nami).
                                          duval's reveal was really one of the series funniest moments,so i'm not even gonna consider that.
                                          now,sanji being chased by sexual assaulting okamas,is,i admit a little over the top humour,but ivankov is pretty strong and awesome,so it balances itself out imo.
                                          after the time skip is where i see the problem.sanji hasn't gotten a proper 1-on-1 and been seemingly defeated,or put down,by stronger opponents.he is definitely not as cool after the time skip as he was before,imo.
                                          well,that ends my rant.

                                          tldr;sanji is chivalrous,just deal with it.he just loves women,and is honest about it
                                          sanji was pretty cool before the timeskip imo,though not so much afterwards

                                          that which cannot be stopped:inherited will,a man's dream,and the flow of time.as long as man continues to seek out the answer to freedom,these things shall never be stopped.-PK Gol D. Roger

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                                          • DARK_RITUAL
                                            DARK_RITUAL @uniaka ikuzakas
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                                            @uniaka:

                                            Prediction time: I think the reason why Sanji doesn't hurt women is because his mother got killed in front of him when he was small.

                                            My theory on that is that Sanji's mom was always abused by the dad and when her mom was about to die she made Sanji promise her that he will never hit a woman or something like that.

                                            Sanji not hitting a woman is a dying promise to the mom.

                                            Big MoM ate - 2012

                                            CC for nakama.

                                            RomanceDawn 1 Reply Last reply Reply Quote 0
                                            • RomanceDawn
                                              RomanceDawn @DARK_RITUAL
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                                              @DARK_RITUAL:

                                              My theory on that is that Sanji's mom was always abused by the dad and when her mom was about to die she made Sanji promise her that he will never hit a woman or something like that.

                                              Sanji not hitting a woman is a dying promise to the mom.

                                              I don't know if I'm ready for something like that. First time I saw woman who was victim of spousal abuse, the child inside of me shrunk by 8 times that day. Something like that would justify his behavior in my eyes. But I won't be totally satisfied unless the dad was from a place further than the endless vearth and because of that became colleague of Vegapunk who some how infused Sanji with the swirly spirit of a devil. I'm not entirely joking either, I think Sanji's eye brows have major significants.

                                              So does the year of Sanji mean another year with no Jinbe in the story? Sanji could have crossed paths with Jinbe on his lone journey, right guys?

                                              Guys?

                                              Folks who read One Piece… Just better people. ¯\(ツ)/¯

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                                              • Greg
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                                                Hasn't been used as anything other than punchline? This is factually wrong, he had several badass moments after the time-skip, in every single arc, all those can be easily pointed out from the manga.

                                                All pittance compared to Prince, secret agent/hunter/gatekeeper.

                                                You're free to your opinion etc. but when you've got major Japanese and foreign Sanji fans who've been reading One Piece from either day one or around Alabasta agreeing with the notion that Sanji is being purposely held back for an amazing return, you have to admit that you're not only in the minority, but it's also a weak stance.

                                                Sorry if you personally liked certain standout scenes. It's not to say I didn't. I cheered when Sanji attacked Dofy, but you're simply wrong if you think that was anything near his earth-shattering run as Mr. Prince.

                                                You're so stuck in your own idea that the character you enjoy can't possibly be what fans around the world have recognized that you're not allowing yourself to be critical of the character in the least and it's really holding you back.

                                                And…whatever. That's cool. When Oda retires Law and brings Sanji back to the role he was meant to play the rest of the fanbase will be throwing parties in the streets and you may certainly feel free to stand there nodding your head repeating, "What? It's always been like this."

                                                No matter where you go, there you are.

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                                                    Gelu @RobZilla
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                                                    @RobZilla:

                                                    Do you genuinely think Sanji has been showcased effectively post-timeskip?

                                                    In comparison to how he was portrayed in the first half of the series?

                                                    …seriously?

                                                    He's had some nice moments, sure, but nothing like the kind of stuff we became accustomed to him delivering pre-timeskip.

                                                    Especially when we look at all the stuff Zoro, his commonly portayed rival and nigh-equal, has done in the second half of the series.

                                                    I think Sanji hasn't been utilized particular well since the time skip but he hasn't been shat on as much as some people in this thread believe he has (seriously Yamcha?). His biggest issue is simply he and the rest of the Curlyhat pirates were written out of the story for X years so Oda could give fights and characterization to Luffy's new navy. All it will take is 1 good 1v1 against someone roughly equal to whoever Zoro is fighting for most of this BS discussion to end. As a Sanji fan I'm cautiously optimistic about this whole year of Sanji thing, so long as it doesn't turn into a "rescue Sanji" arc it should give him a chance to shine.

                                                    Warning fanboying below You have been warned so no complaining.

                                                    Okay so yes Sanji has had the short end of the stick since the time skip (some people would argue TB). That is not to say he hasn't had some nice moments but its just that they've been over shadowed by his girl issues. Just to be clear, I like him having issues with women both fighting them and being around them (hell let me be crucified here and say I actually liked that he was unable to hit Kalifa) but he needs other things to balance him out as a character. In EL he had the whole "The Hunter" "Diable Jambe" and "Food from God, spices from the Devil" to balance out the loss to Kalifa and him disappearing and doing Mr. Prince type things afterwards. Its was all nicely balanced and made Sanji feel like a flawed badass which is the type of characters I really enjoy.

                                                    Come to think of it the major problem with the timeskip is that what should be defining "badass" moments for Sanji have caveats and issues.

                                                    Sprints over and protects G-5 Marines and Tashigi from Vergo! WOO BADASS But he cracked his leg and probably would've lost the fight if it wasn't interrupted

                                                    Converts a key member of Doflamingo's team to the strawhats side (Primarily due to said girl issues) and warns them that they are being betrayed! Then sky walks his ass at lightning speed several kilometers to block Doflamingo from murdering his crew mates and even gets him to comment on his strength! WOO BADASS Is then almost immediately about to be killed only to have to be saved by law.

                                                    Him asking for Luffy's permission to attack the Big Mom's Ship! WOO BADASS Is then written out of the manga for over a year and completely misses out on showing his progress over the time skip while the other 2 in the monster trio get to show off their new skills.

                                                    The first 2 in particularly are annoying since there was really no need for the caveats. Both Vergo/Dofla vs Sanji could've easily been interrupted while showcasing the characters strength without making Sanji appear weak. Sanji disappearing and not being able to redeem himself for ages only made these failures appear even worse. Anyway hopefully Oda lives up to his word, and we get a arc that makes me fall for Sanji again. Also Sanji is totally due for a major 1 v 1 so fingers crossed we get one soon.

                                                    Edit: A side note, I can't believe I still remembered this accounts password.

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                                                    • Kurloz
                                                      Kurloz @Tyrano
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                                                      @Tyrano:

                                                      Sanji is Doflamingo's son.


                                                      Deepest lore

                                                      Not even Naruto resorted to time travel

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                                                      • W
                                                        Whackadoodle @King Cannon
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                                                        @King:

                                                        Sanji and Jinbe vs. Wadatsumi was pretty much a 2 vs. 1. Sanji and Jinbe had the numerical advantage. Wadatsumi only had size. Never mind that Jinbe by himself made the Wadatsumi fight ridiculously unwinnable for the latter.

                                                        Yet Sanji was portrayed as being roughly on par with Jinbe in that fight, essentially matching him feat for feat, just as him and Zoro simultaneously oneshotting a Pacifista portrayed them as being roughly on par. If Jinbe hadn't been in that fight, I think it would have made Sanji look weaker, because we wouldn't have such a strong character to compare to - it would have just looked like Sanji was beating up a giant child with no indication of how impressive the feat was.

                                                        Mind you, while I think that Sanji has had plenty of impressive feats post-timeskip, and I don't agree with a lot of the things people are saying about Sanji not having shit going on post-timeskip, I do he hasn't had as much of a chance to show off post-timeskip, and I'm really hoping Oda pulls out something over-the-top for him this year, like he seems to be suggesting.

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                                                        • KageKageKing
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                                                          Doesn't this count as Oda planning something big for Sanji?
                                                          http://mangafox.me/manga/one_piece/v50/c485/12.html

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                                                            Gelu @KageKageKing
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                                                            @KageKageKing:

                                                            Doesn't this count as Oda planning something big for Sanji?
                                                            http://mangafox.me/manga/one_piece/v50/c485/12.html

                                                            Yep I'd honestly put money on this turning out to be true.

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                                                            • Z
                                                              Zenza001
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                                                              Maybe Sanji he knew something regarding the all blue and warned Luffy

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                                                              • Kaptayn
                                                                Kaptayn @KageKageKing
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                                                                @KageKageKing:

                                                                Doesn't this count as Oda planning something big for Sanji?
                                                                http://mangafox.me/manga/one_piece/v50/c485/12.html

                                                                It probably does.

                                                                A bit like certain cover pages, like this one :

                                                                !

                                                                (though on cases like these, it could be us suddenly seeing foreshadowing everywhere)

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                                                                  Martine @Kaptayn
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                                                                  @Kaptayn:

                                                                  it could be us suddenly seeing foreshadowing everywhere)

                                                                  one piece fans seeing foreshadowing everywhere, really?

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                                                                  • Don Quichotte De Flamingo
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                                                                    Don Quichotte De Flamingo
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                                                                    Sanji was originally named Naruto, so he may also host a beast inside of him.
                                                                    Unleashing it makes him interesting for the WG and not worth anything dead.

                                                                    His urge to find the all-blue is to bring the beast to his homeland.

                                                                    Unrevealed_Loki/Rocks/Im-san_

                                                                    IslandElbaf/Raftel/GodValley

                                                                    UnresolvedWeevil´s plan/Explaining DFs/Deal with Kuma-Bonney´s past/Joy-Boy/Zunisha´s story/Rocks flashback/Void Century/Rioponeglyph/Uranus/the D.clan

                                                                    DFWind/Metal/Acid/Liquid/Time-Stop

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                                                                    • fana
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                                                                      I can agree that Sanji didn't get a really badass moment post time-skip.
                                                                      But honestly, besides Luffy of course, and Usopp and Zoro very recently, no one in the crew did and he has only been involved in 2.5 arcs.
                                                                      Also, saying he has just been a "joke" character or a "hype tool" is having a really selective memory.
                                                                      For example, all his interactions with Kinemon in Punk Hazard seem to be forgotten because of one pervert joke while he was in Nami's body.

                                                                      So yes, he still didn't get a badass/major feat that people are waiting for (the Luffy "solo" arcs didn't help), but I never worried that his time to shine would eventually come.
                                                                      Even before the bounty poster reveal, I was sure that Oda had big plans for him.
                                                                      It's good to see Oda confirming it.
                                                                      It's coming sooner than I expected but it could be a great way to make him a lot more famous just before Jinbe joins the crew.

                                                                      As I said in another thread, I'm expecting every crew members to get a chapter titled like Zoro's in Thriller Bark : "Straw Hat Pirates : <nickname><name>".
                                                                      Sanji seems to be next.</name></nickname>

                                                                      goty H HeartOfDarkness 3 Replies Last reply Reply Quote 0
                                                                      • S
                                                                        Supernova
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                                                                        Sanji had some cool moments, but nothing compared to how he was preskip.

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                                                                        • goty
                                                                          goty @fana
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                                                                          @fana:

                                                                          I can agree that Sanji didn't get a really badass moment post time-skip.
                                                                          But honestly, besides Luffy of course, and Usopp and Zoro very recently, no one in the crew did and he has only been involved in 2.5 arcs.
                                                                          Also, saying he has just been a "joke" character or a "hype tool" is having a really selective memory.
                                                                          For example, all his interactions with Kinemon in Punk Hazard seem to be forgotten because of one pervert joke while he was in Nami's body.

                                                                          That sums it up perfectly.
                                                                          The thing is, the people with that "selective memory" never liked Sanji to begin. I've been around time enough to know that.

                                                                          Although, like i agreed with Greg earlier, it's visible that Oda has been holding him back compared to previous years.

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                                                                          • Robby
                                                                            Robby @goty
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                                                                            @goty:

                                                                            That sums it up perfectly.
                                                                            The thing is, the people with that "selective memory" never liked Sanji to begin. I've been around time enough to know that.

                                                                            Although, like i agreed with Greg earlier, it's visible that Oda has been holding him back compared to previous years.

                                                                            Sanji's great. That's why its so disappointing for him to be so lousy for years.

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                                                                              Helter Skelter @fana
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                                                                              @fana:

                                                                              I can agree that Sanji didn't get a really badass moment post time-skip.
                                                                              But honestly, besides Luffy of course, and Usopp and Zoro very recently, no one in the crew did and he has only been involved in 2.5 arcs.

                                                                              You're absolutely right. Most people don't realize that more than half of the Strawhats didn't have their moment to shine post timeskip yet. But for some reason, only Sanji's situation seem to bother them. I know people tend to like him more, especially because he's so much older in the series thean Brook for exemple. But still…

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                                                                                Horizon @Robby
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                                                                                @Robby:

                                                                                He's still been shit on plenty, and hasn't had a good solo win against a strong opponent in nearly ten years, despite being one of THE core fighters.

                                                                                This is the problem with a lot of people. You're stuck on how many solo fights a character gets. One Piece has mostly been about team work. Why exclude group fights? Basing the worth of a character on how many fights they win is stupid.

                                                                                He hasn't been put into situations purely to break his pride or his character.

                                                                                That has never happened to Sanji. You're just conjuring up your own reasons as to why everything happens.

                                                                                ANd Law has lost a couple fights, but he's won them too against several opponents, (Smoker, Vergo, Trebol, and he got what should have been a deadly hit on Dofla)

                                                                                Sanji has won more fights than Law ever has. He didn't even beat Trebol. Trebol blew himself up.

                                                                                and in the process he never lost his dignity.

                                                                                Neither has Sanji?

                                                                                –- Update From New Post Merge ---

                                                                                He doesn't even have a doofy haircut under his hat or a silly tattoo somewhere amidst all his cool ones.

                                                                                Even if he did, why would it matter? You're speaking as if you're totally unfamiliar with how One Piece works.

                                                                                Yes, Sanji got a training regimen, but his was the only one that was played as a buttmonkey. Even Usopp's "I got fat from eating all this stuff!" was temporary and not what he did for the next two years.

                                                                                You're whining about comedy in One Piece. What series did you think you were reading?

                                                                                –- Update From New Post Merge ---

                                                                                @RobZilla:

                                                                                Do you genuinely think Sanji has been showcased effectively post-timeskip? In comparison to how he was portrayed in the first half of the series?

                                                                                You'd have an argument if the second half wasn't in its beginning stages. The New world has been about fleshing out the side characters who'll become important in the story. When the series ends & Sanji still hasn't done anything then you could make this argument.

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                                                                                • AfroSamurai
                                                                                  AfroSamurai @Horizon
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                                                                                  @Horizon:

                                                                                  You'd have an argument if the second half wasn't in its beginning stages. The New world has been about fleshing out the side characters who'll become important in the story. When the series ends & Sanji still hasn't done anything then you could make this argument.

                                                                                  It's been 200 chapters. 1/4th of the series. He has every right to make this argument, given how long its been.

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                                                                                    Horizon @AfroSamurai
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                                                                                    @AfroSamurai:

                                                                                    It's been 200 chapters. 1/4th of the series. He has every right to make this argument, given how long its been.

                                                                                    Chapter number is irrelevant. Sanji was barely in over 100 of those 200 chapters. You can't properly compare the completed half of a story to one that isn't even close to finishing. That's dumb. Sanji's comeback has merely been held off & is currently in progress. There are more arcs to come which means there will be more chances for him do something big. People were whining about Fujitora during an ongoing arc then ended up looking foolish,

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                                                                                    • RobZilla
                                                                                      RobZilla
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                                                                                      @Horizon
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                                                                                      @Horizon:

                                                                                      You'd have an argument if the second half wasn't in its beginning stages.

                                                                                      We're talking specifically about how Sanji has been showcased post-timeskip so far though.

                                                                                      @Horizon:

                                                                                      The New world has been about fleshing out the side characters who'll become important in the story.

                                                                                      Except most of the other SHs have had some great moments post-timeskip, in keeping with the way they acted pre-timeskip.

                                                                                      Sanji hasn't been allowed the kind of big moments we had become accustomed to from him, so far.

                                                                                      @Horizon:

                                                                                      When the series ends & Sanji still hasn't done anything then you could make this argument.

                                                                                      Nobody's making an argument about Sanji never having these kind of big moments again for the rest of the series.

                                                                                      It's about the split over this talk from Oda about 2016 being Sanji's year.

                                                                                      Some feel he's been neglected post-timeskip and are buzzed for him reaching his previous heights.

                                                                                      The others feel like he's still been showcased effectively and don't think the year of Sanji is a big deal/he doesn't deserve more specific focus.

                                                                                      _"_Now! This is it! Now is the time to choose! Die and be free of pain or live and fight your sorrow! Now is the time to shape your stories! Your fate is in your hands!" - Auron

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                                                                                      • Robby
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                                                                                        You're so bent on arguing you aren't even reading my points, and are putting words into my mouth. I never said a character is based solely around their fights, or that comedy is out of place in One Piece.

                                                                                        (I did insinuate that Law himself is out of place as a token Bleach character with nothing funny or interesting about him, however.)

                                                                                        But that Sanji, in particular, as one of the noted big fighters of the group, whose role is specifically that of powerhouse, one of the big three, has not gotten any big fights in the last 7 or 8 years, while he has gotten a very large number of obnoxious jokes and losses and unfinished moments heaped upon him for the sake of making him suffer.

                                                                                        Chopper or Robin or Nami or Brook not getting a lot of fights is fine. It's not part of their personaliy or role to do more than assist and get something once in a while. But as part of the Monster Trio?

                                                                                        Everyone gets gags. Everyone gets moments. Everyone gets to punch someone. But Sanji's particular ratio has been off for a very long time, especially compared to the specific characters he's supposed to be peers with. The secret agent part of his persona has been all but lost, his "big three takes out tough guys" part has been minimized to mild clashes rather than full showcases (while Luffy and Zoro continue to get full battles), and his charming quirk has been exaggerated and exploded to consistent and obnoxious degrees. If it was only not getting fights, that'd be less of an issue, were his old personality traits still solid but… they're not, and he's been mostly used as a butt monkey for a long time. Even his recent bounty update goes with a stupid picture. Again.

                                                                                        He's been a shadow of himself for a long time. Having a panel here or a panel there is cool, having a quick scene is nice, but everyone gets that. Having someone say "Hey, he's strong" is nice, but he hasn't had any opportunity to really showcase it in almost a decade. Sanji has been missing 2/3 of his personality and flanderized the rest. This also extends out to the likes of Chopper and Franky and Brook a little who rely on their gag a lot, ("I'm bashful!""I am a robot, beep" "Skull joke!") but they've all had more to do and more moments of development and shine.

                                                                                        Oda's isolated him and is finally giving him a chance to shine again, since on his own, he's not compared to the others and is the biggest fish in the group again, and that's good for him. WHich I've said multiple times.

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                                                                                        • Greg
                                                                                          Greg
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                                                                                          @Robby
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                                                                                          Yes .

                                                                                          No matter where you go, there you are.

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                                                                                          • Shadowgreed
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                                                                                            It seems like Sanji might be a prince after all, but let me add my own thought on him this far.

                                                                                            1. To me it seems like Sanji escaped home after his family/friends or whatever kept telling him that the All Blue was just fairytails and as a child he just wanted to prove them wrong and the easiest way to do this was by becoming a Cook apprentice on a ship that was meant to be sailing the oceans.

                                                                                            2. Sanji is from Nortis! Sanji has been the only Strawhat (besides Chopper) from the Jaya arc that didn't have any type of encounter with Bellamy, a character that was revealed to be from a wealthy city in North Blue and one of his main things pre-timeskip was not believing in dreams.

                                                                                            3. Sanji's "last words" implies that he will be the biggest head-ache to the Marines, but a prince-turned-pirate cannot accomplish this sort of actions unless he infiltrates an important meeting (The Reviere) and sways his way onto it by using knowledge that cannot be accessible by kings themselves but are things that the top branch deals with secretly- such as experiments, kidnappings, etc (Caesar) and Doflamingo was that head-ache to the World Gov. during North Blue (card already played).

                                                                                            Oda has made it clear that Akainu's Marines is being focused on fire power AND CITIZENS TRUST and If Sanji manages to overturn the trust those Kings have on the Marines by utilizing the knowledge that Caesar have then this is the moment that will make him the most hated man for the Marines and will be what starts the civil war. Sanji's bloodline cannot be greater than Doflamingo, but has to be good enough to make him move/infiltrate the Reviere and If you been paying attention to the story you'll realize that we can only see The Reviere through Vivi, but Vivi does not possess the information that's needed in such scenario and none of the Kings that the Strawhats have befriended have it either as the only have their own misfortune.

                                                                                            I might be missing something here.

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                                                                                            • Robby
                                                                                              Robby @Shadowgreed
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                                                                                              @Shadowgreed:

                                                                                              I might be missing something here.

                                                                                              The fact that Sanji is actually a space alien.

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                                                                                              • Cyan D. Funk
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                                                                                                Sanji is the Prince of Space.

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                                                                                                • Watch-man
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                                                                                                  Sanji being blonde guy also hints towards him being some kind of Royalty.

                                                                                                  Same as Doflamingo, Sabo and Bellamy. I know its obvious but I wanted to still point it out 👅

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                                                                                                    Average @Cyan D. Funk
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                                                                                                    @Cyan:

                                                                                                    Sanji is the Prince of Space.

                                                                                                    So basically you're saying Sanji = Freeza?

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                                                                                                    • Watch-man
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                                                                                                      @Robby:

                                                                                                      The fact that Sanji is actually a space alien.

                                                                                                      To me it always looked like Celestial Dragons came from space and they wear their suits after their ancestors..

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                                                                                                        uniaka ikuzakas @Average
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                                                                                                        @Average:

                                                                                                        So basically you're saying Sanji = Freeza?

                                                                                                        I sure hope so because then Sanji would be able to do this attack:

                                                                                                        New power up for sanji, Hell's ball! Who's not on par with luffy and zoro now, betches!

                                                                                                        https://imgur.com/MyjRSWw

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