He's a hypocrite… or Oda is being inconsistent.
Chapter 814: Let's go see Master Nekomamushi
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Zoro's angry because Sanji could have stayed and didn't, and because his letter explained absolutely nothing and didn't even apologise for what he did, and because now instead of focusing on Kaido with Law and that Samurai, they now have to make a detour against another Yonkou while Kaido is after their blood. Clearly Sanji does have a good excuse for leaving-but he didn't give one, instead opting for a smart-ass letter. I don't see how either Sanji or Zoro comes off as totally right in this situation.
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"And in the midst of all this, that eyebrowed idiot goes and sticks his nose in the business of another yonkou, Big Mom."
Sounds like complaining to me.
Tashigi and Brownbeard don't think Zoro is taking stuff seriously as well.
"You… how can you act so leisurely?!"
"That's not time to be lying down!!"
You left the part out when Zoro says he didn't leave a note with saying "Thank you for everything" or "Sorry for all the trouble", Actually you're right he is complaining that Sanji is giving them more work having to go get him with a target on there back. That's Zoro's personality through out the series he's been like that Kaku fight he was making jokes and mocking him, same when fighting Mr.1 once in awhile he'd smile. I think you're nit picking provide me with scans when other members mention there in the new world and they have to be serious
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Zoro's angry because Sanji could have stayed and didn't, and because his letter explained absolutely nothing and didn't even apologise for what he did, and because now instead of focusing on Kaido with Law and that Samurai, they now have to make a detour against another Yonkou while Kaido is after their blood. Clearly Sanji does have a good excuse for leaving-but he didn't give one, instead opting for a smart-ass letter. I don't see how either Sanji or Zoro comes off as totally right in this situation.
Exactly this. I think Zoro was being harsh but he made valid points about there situation.
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Zoro's angry because Sanji could have stayed and didn't, and because his letter explained absolutely nothing and didn't even apologise for what he did, and because now instead of focusing on Kaido with Law and that Samurai, they now have to make a detour against another Yonkou while Kaido is after their blood. Clearly Sanji does have a good excuse for leaving-but he didn't give one, instead opting for a smart-ass letter. I don't see how either Sanji or Zoro comes off as totally right in this situation.
It's a shame Sanji explaining exactly what the problem was in the letter wouldn't be quite the reveal as everyone having to find out for themselves after going after him.
At least this way we might get a fun adventure.
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It's a shame Sanji explaining exactly what the problem was in the letter wouldn't be quite the reveal as everyone having to find out for themselves after going after him.
At least this way we might get a fun adventure.
Just because the plot dictates the way something happens doesn't change the way a character is written and what flaws that presents,
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You left the part out when Zoro says he didn't leave a note with saying "Thank you for everything" or "Sorry for all the trouble", Actually you're right he is complaining that Sanji is giving them more work having to go get him with a target on there back. That's Zoro's personality through out the series he's been like that Kaku fight he was making jokes and mocking him, same when fighting Mr.1 once in awhile he'd smile. I think you're nit picking provide me with scans when other members mention there in the new world and they have to be serious
If Sanji has the intention of returning, why would he write that?
Brook is the one who is putting all those ideas of Sanji being gone forever.
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zoro's angry because sanji could have stayed and didn't, and because his letter explained absolutely nothing and didn't even apologise for what he did, and because now instead of focusing on kaido with law and that samurai, they now have to make a detour against another yonkou while kaido is after their blood. Clearly sanji does have a good excuse for leaving-but he didn't give one, instead opting for a smart-ass letter. I don't see how either sanji or zoro comes off as totally right in this situation.
cause he had no fucking option then to leave. How can he stay if he got a ultimatum by big mom, come or i will come for you? What, he should have stayed at zou and make a funeral ceremony for his crew member's? The clash with big mom for himself is unavoidable as was explicitly stated that noone rejects mom's invitation.
His kicking the ass of big mom crew would accomplish nothing, there was no room for negotation it was:
Option 1: Reject invitatio, stay at island and fight with mom
2. Go away and leave the crew
the letter thing, yes he could have explained better but since he didn't talk about his past since now it would be awkward to put it down in a letter but that point is valid he maybe should have left a bit more info but if he spilled his problems he knows his crew will come after him(well this way maybe maybe they would leave him alone for the time being) -
If Sanji has the intention of returning, why would he write that?
Brook is the one who is putting all those ideas of Sanji being gone forever.
I agree Brook is putting that idea in their heads , BUT if its even a small possibility Luffy is going to drag him with or without his permission, that's the thing the whole crew knows how Luffy is so him leaving like that knows Luffy is on his way.
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Just because the plot dictates the way something happens doesn't change the way a character is written and what flaws that presents,
No arguments there, just saying. The way this plot was constructed didn't give Oda too many options.
Now we have Sanji's past coming back to bite him and his crew in the ass and he never mentioned anything about it to them. I can understand people being put off by Zoro's reaction. Someone had to point out the negative side of Sanji's noble sacrifice and Zoro is usually go to guy for that sort of thing.
Sanji is the one who kept his dangerous family a secret and Sanji is the one who did a terrible job hiding his image from the public view. I'd expect, when he realized he's becoming a high profile wanted person, along with the rest of SH, that he would at least give heads up for the possibility of some ASSASSINS taking him back.
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Just because the plot dictates the way something happens doesn't change the way a character is written and what flaws that presents,
So Oda should just spoil an entire plotline just to make a character logical?
Never mind that the whole situation with his family could be really hard to explain in a single letter.
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So Oda should just spoil an entire plotline just to make a character logical?
That's really a stupid thing to complain about.
That's not what I'm saying at all. I'm saying that, just like Zoro can be criticised this chapter, so can Sanji, regardless of how the plot needs to develop, instead of what I'm seeing, which seems to be people saying Zoro is 100% or Sanji is 100% right.
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That's not what I'm saying at all. I'm saying that, just like Zoro can be criticised this chapter, so can Sanji, regardless of how the plot needs to develop, instead of what I'm seeing, which seems to be people saying Zoro is 100% or Sanji is 100% right.
Like I said above, we don't know enough about Sanji's situation to know if he could even explain what was going on in a single letter, so we can't say if everything he did was justified. It's not like he had much time either.
Essentially, I do think Sanji had a good excuse to not write an excuse. One could say he knew Nekomamushi was nearing by so he had to be brief.
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Like I said above, we don't know enough about Sanji's situation to know if he could even explain what was going on in a single letter. It's not like he had much time either.
Anything would be better than what he wrote. Not to mention Sanji was aware that he was given an Only Alive bounty before he ran into Capone. Sanji's an intelligent guy, he must have known that there was a very good chance that meant his past was catching up with him, yet he didn't say to the others on Zou what that could mean. Sure, there was no way he could have known about the wedding, but it would give the crew a better view on things than what Pekoms will probably be able to provide.
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Anything would be better than what he wrote. Not to mention Sanji was aware that he was given an Only Alive bounty before he ran into Capone. Sanji's an intelligent guy, he must have known that there was a very good chance that meant his past was catching up with him, yet he didn't say to the others on Zou what that could mean. Sure, there was no way he could have known about the wedding, but it would give the crew a better view on things than what Pekoms will probably be able to provide.
There's the possibility that the wedding itself was the reason he was supposed to be Only Alive, which means he still wouldn't be able explain it. That's why he only went "eureka" when he found out about the wedding and put 2 and 2 together.
We don't know enough yet.
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"Hell's Memories" could be a hint to a fractured past? Also I wouldn't take the engulfed in flames seriously he's never used the fires that engulf him offensively, I see it more as a portrayal of his burning aura when he's pumped up, plus nothing coating yourself in haki can't fix if it is meant to be taken the literal way, Luffy and his red hawk is an example of this.
I always saw that as Sanji's reminding of his 2 years on Okama Land.
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Oh true! Forgot about that.
@KageKageKing:I always saw that as Sanji's reminding of his 2 years on Okama Land.
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I'm amazed to find out this discussion is still going on (or "around", suits better).
But I would like to point out that, while I completely disagree with Zoro's logic, I think it was more a matter of Oda failing to see his logic was flawed. I think he really wanted Zoro to sound practical and logical, he just failed to give him the right reasoning.
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@.access:
I'm amazed to find out this discussion is still going on (or "around", suits better).
But I would like to point out that, while I completely disagree with Zoro's logic, I think it was more a matter of Oda failing to see his logic was flawed. I think he really wanted Zoro to sound practical and logical, he just failed to give him the right reasoning.
My aplogies I still don't see the problem with Zoro's logic. I understand he sounded like a Jerk but that still doesn't disprove what he mentioned with the Yonkous. Is it because he doesn't know Sanji's family ?
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My aplogies I still don't see the problem with Zoro's logic. I understand he sounded like a Jerk but that still doesn't disprove what he mentioned with the Yonkous. Is it because he doesn't know Sanji's family ?
Honestly, it was said to exhaustion already. I know I pointed it out in many posts already and I know many other users did the same. If the point didn't got across is a matter of disagreement, not of lack of exposition.
And no, he talking without having any knowledge of Sanji's family is just what makes his opinion reckless, not what makes it logically flawed.
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@.access:
Honestly, it was said to exhaustion already. I know I pointed it out in many posts already and I know many other users did the same. If the point didn't got across is a matter of disagreement, not of lack of exposition.
And no, he talking without having any knowledge of Sanji's family is just what makes his opinion reckless, not what makes it logically flawed.
Fair enough I didn't see your post on it, I've seen others but nothing substantial.
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@.access:
I'm amazed to find out this discussion is still going on (or "around", suits better).
But I would like to point out that, while I completely disagree with Zoro's logic, I think it was more a matter of Oda failing to see his logic was flawed. I think he really wanted Zoro to sound practical and logical, he just failed to give him the right reasoning.
or,you know,he wanted Zoro to sound like he is being a huge jackass to sanji and being hard on him,while also showing that essentially sanji and zoro have the same opinion of not wanting a quarrel with another yonkou.i mean,that's why sanji went to settle this on his own,didn't he?
(it really feels like i've made this point a lot of times now,and i'm starting to feel like a spammer:ninja:) -
Be pretty cool if Sanjis family has ties to the world government and trained cp members in assassination. Sanji unlocked sky walk, he could gain a power up later down the line tapping into is roots, learning all the techniques of his family.
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Be pretty cool if Sanjis family has ties to the world government and trained cp members in assassination. Sanji unlocked sky walk, he could gain a power up later down the line tapping into is roots, learning all the techniques of his family.
This reminded me of Kalifa and her father. If Kalifa and Sanji turn out to be related, their fight will suddenly become really awkward.
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Vergo was blindsided by that first attack, though. I wouldn't count that as Vergo being unable to avoid the kick.
It's a good thing that people can still be caught by surprise attacks in OP, despite everyone and their sister having Haki.
Suprise attacks taking down really strong people might be the thing when Raizou will come to the picture or even more likely when we will get to see and know more about Sanjis family.
Just thinking about Dressrosa and situation where Bellamy would not hesitate and just use Spring Hopper attack while holding hakified knife(in Colosseum) he could have had chance to take out Luffy who was talking to Zoro and Kinemon imo
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@.access:
This reminded me of Kalifa and her father. If Kalifa and Sanji turn out to be related, their fight will suddenly become really awkward.
Hey, Sanji is already into furries, so surprise incest wouldn't surprise me anymore.
I mean, in movie Z, he was fantasizing about young Nami anyway and one of the colorspreads had him enjoying the attack of a female zombie.
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That's not what I'm saying at all. I'm saying that, just like Zoro can be criticised this chapter, so can Sanji, regardless of how the plot needs to develop, instead of what I'm seeing, which seems to be people saying Zoro is 100% or Sanji is 100% right.
Its like in life - in complicated situation where two people disagree - in most situations each of them has a point on their own. Many things depend on perspective and nothing else.
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@.access:
This reminded me of Kalifa and her father. If Kalifa and Sanji turn out to be related, their fight will suddenly become really awkward.
Sanji, is that you?
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Oda said to search for the 'Nekomamushi song' in youtube and it came up with this video. Nekomamushi is definitely my favourite character now.
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He didn't complain when Luffy made an alliance with Law to fight Kaidou one arc after declaring war on Big Mom.
Now he is.
Luffy is the captain, Sanji is not.
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Luffy is the captain, Sanji is not.
He is the second captain since half of the crew got named after him when Luffy was not there.
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Doesn't the 'third son' allude to the notion that the Vinsmoke family has only 'sons'(male children)?
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Doesn't the 'third son' allude to the notion that the Vinsmoke family has only 'sons'(male children)?
Not really. For example, say a family has 5 children. From eldest to youngest, say they're male, male, female, female, male. The youngest child, though fifth overall, would still be the third son.
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Not really. For example, say a family has 5 children. From eldest to youngest, say they're male, male, female, female, male. The youngest child, though fifth overall, would still be the third son.
You're right. Thanks.
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I've been meaning to say this for many weeks now. The minks, aside from being able to use 'Electro', seem to also be able to fly or float in the air.
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I've been meaning to say this for many weeks now. The minks, aside from being able to use 'Electro', seem to also be able to fly or float in the air.
http://i.imgur.com/4g32SMO.pngEverybody get that already. Since Carrot actually.
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Everybody get that already. Since Carrot actually.
Using Carrot as a sample to draw the conclusion that the minks can fly or float is a fallacy: the Hasty Generalization Fallacy.
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Using Carrot as a sample to draw the conclusion that the minks can fly or float is a fallacy: the Hasty Generalization Fallacy.
wanda too could
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Luffy is the captain, Sanji is not.
in sanji's defense you could say he asked the permission to luffy before firing back to big mom ship
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anyway, zoro speech, even if right in its content, as far as i could think, to me it's still Oda trolling us over sanji just to create disbelief and create the context for a big surprise. he knows well that each and every zoro fanboy would have jumped at sanji's throat after this chapter
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I don't think this Electro and Floating thing is an actual Mink particular stuff. As long as its not explained why you being a beastman gives you electric powers I'll gladly throw away my statement.
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wanda too could
Nice evidence! You know, in One Piece, I guess sometimes you don't know whether the author is emphasizing a simple jump, hinting to a flying ability(devil fruit), or simply drawing a flying or floating technique that people can learn or awaken, I guess, as in these cases. The Wanda example, while it may very well be the floating and/ or flying technique that we were talking about, can also be just a jump from a roof of the houses in the surroundings.
The telltale signs of this kind of flying are two parallel lines drawn behind the person flying.
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I don't think this Electro and Floating thing is an actual Mink particular stuff. As long as its not explained why you being a beastman gives you electric powers I'll gladly throw away my statement.
Good thinking. There is nothing that rules out the possibility that it could be learned by people as well. After all, one of Whitebeard's pirates, McGuy, was seen using an electric sword:
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You disagree he isn't ? I'm sure he's the only crew member reminding everyone there in the New World
To this I'm gonna say no.
Lazily letting a dragon destroy the facility he is in because he is napping or taking having Monet almost hurt (almost killing) his crewmates because there's some things beast don't like to bite is not taking the NW seriously. He may talk big, but I certainly haven't seen most action that tells me he take the NW more seriously. Luffy on the other hand had the decency to actually negotiate with Big Mom and is currently in a alliance, I'm already much convince by his actions(even accepted to tag teamed an opponent). -
To this I'm gonna say no.
Lazily letting a dragon destroy the facility he is in because he is napping or taking having Monet almost hurt (almost killing) his crewmates because there's some things beast don't like to bite is not taking the NW seriously. He may talk big, but I certainly haven't seen most action that tells me he take the NW more seriously. Luffy on the other hand had the decency to actually negotiate with Big Mom and is currently in a alliance, I'm already much convince by his actions(even accepted to tag teamed an opponent).He takes NW seriously when Oda needs him to. Other times, he's being laid back for comedic effect. Or for reasons…
I'm not liking what his character has become since time skip.
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He takes NW seriously when Oda needs him to. Other times, he's being laid
I'm not liking what his character has become since time skip.Meh. I consider his new persona to be in line with what Oda started since WSeven. But I don't like him either.
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Whenever I see somebody using 'meh', I get reminded of this
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Whenever I see somebody using 'meh', I get reminded of this
! http://z.mfcdn.net/store/manga/106/28-257.0/compressed/v017.jpg
This makes me want to go on Youtube and play that Baka song Luffy sings over and over. Ah, Skypiea memories…
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Oda said to search for the 'Nekomamushi song' in youtube and it came up with this video. Nekomamushi is definitely my favourite character now.
wait…is that Oda?
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So I'm reading Viz's translation of the chapter, and Zoro's stance on Sanji is less harsh than Manga Stream's translation makes it seem. Basically, "It's no big deal if he leaves for good but if he does he owes us a 'thanks' or 'sorry.'" whereas MS makes it come off as, "Fuck him, he left without saying 'thanks' or 'sorry.'" In MS his apathy seems more spiteful than pragmatic.
They also chose "killers" over "assassins."
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@Galaxy:
That's the voice actor for Brook.
This is Oda.
Oh yes, now I recognize him :). BTW Oda looks bit more fat than I remember. A legend nonetheless.
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So I'm reading Viz's translation of the chapter, and Zoro's stance on Sanji is less harsh than Manga Stream's translation makes it seem. Basically, "It's no big deal if he leaves for good but if he does he owes us a 'thanks' or 'sorry.'" whereas MS makes it come off as, "Fuck him, he left without saying 'thanks' or 'sorry.'" In MS his apathy seems more spiteful than pragmatic.
They also chose "killers" over "assassins."
Hmmm. Interesting. I kind of thought Zoro wouldn't just be like "screw Sanji he can bounce, ungrateful bastard". He's said multiple times that Sanji can handle himself which I kind of think means deep down he definitely respects him. Glad to hear the truth i guess.
I'm kind of getting to the point where I'm considering getting a Viz subscription. I usually have to read 2-3 different translations (Mangastream & Mangapanda usually :sad:) to get the full gist of the chapter. Is it worth it? I'd hate to talk about new chapters knowing my information isn't completely acurate….
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A Viz subscription is absolutely worth it. Scan and translation quality are top notch. MangaPanda is garbage and MangaStream leans towards profanity and a rougher taste in its dialogue when it isn't really there. Case in point, MangaStream made Zoro out to be more asshole than detached in this chapter.
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