Chapter 772: Cabbage & Romeo

RobZilla

It would really mix things up if something triggered it before then, due to the illegal orders given by the WG. Akainu would go right ahead and follow orders blindly in spite of it being a crime, that would then force each individual marine to choose a side.

Well in terms of illegal orders, the WG has the Cipher Pols to do it's dirty work.

The Marines are too upstanding and honorable a force for the WG to jeopardize that image.

It's the same reason that Sengoku wanted to turn off the transmitters right before the uber-ugly part of Marineford began.

Icarus

@RobZilla:

Well in terms of illegal orders, the WG has the Cipher Pols to do it's dirty work.

The Marines are too upstanding and honorable a force for the WG to jeopardize that image.

It's the same reason that Sengoku wanted to turn off the transmitters right before the uber-ugly part of Marineford began.

They were honourable and upstanding once, and some individuals still are but with Akainu at the top they are not any more as an organization, Kuzan knew this, which is why he challenged and fought Akainu.

RobZilla

@Icarus:

They were honourable and upstanding once, and some individuals still are but with Akainu at the top they are not any more as an organization, Kuzan knew this, which is why he challenged and fought Akainu.

He disliked Sakazuki on a personal and moral level, yes.

That doesn't mean that the WG would change the manner of the orders given to Sakazuki.

As we saw with the WG's decision to suppress news about the Level 6 escapees, the fleet admiral still has to follow orders.

The illegal stuff with stay with the Cipher Pols, like I alluded to before.

It'll take an extraneous event to split the marines, in my opinion.

Icarus

@RobZilla:

He disliked Sakazuki on a personal and moral level, yes.

That doesn't mean that the WG would change the manner of the orders given to Sakazuki.

As we saw with the WG's decision to suppress news about the Level 6 escapees, the fleet admiral still has to follow orders.

The illegal stuff with stay with the Cipher Pols, like I alluded to before.

It'll take an extraneous event to split the marines, in my opinion.

I do agree on that it would have to be a very serious event indeed. I think it would be a waste of good story to leave it until the end though.

melody of dead.deanders

@Fraco:

well, it's all speculations by the way, we still have to see where oda is going to go with fujitora. coby, wether he was an afterthought by oda who decided to change his role or not, he's in the story from the very beginning, and with a strong resemblance with luffy in terms of personal objectives. i hope he doesn't become the fleet admiral, i would see it as a too big stretch but, given his growth i have this feeling.

smoker i don't really know. i really like him, even if he always end up defeated til now, i just can't see him to become a fleet admiral because of his character design, it doesn't suit well in a role like that but i don't know. him particularly (and in small part fuji too) seems to be the garp of the present rather than something else.

aokiji is one of my fave, but it's still lacking a strict moral definition to be something to be considered for that role. at least for the moment. i see him like the 7th warlord rightnow but i understand i could be really wrong.

oh yeah i forgot about fujitora totally.. yeap he is my #1 for the fleet admiral..
let's just hope green bull isn't more of a beast..
@DARK_RITUAL:

I've seen this a lot of times, people saying Aokiji will be the New fleet admiral. How can someone who deflected the marines would be allowed to comeback but not only that but also lead the marines? Sorry but it makes absolutely zero sense.

well that's what i'm saying.. i don't want him to come back.. and especially be given the title of fleet admiral even though he basically ran away..

Porinero

when will new chapter come, the one who answers is one sexy bastard

Galaxy 9000

@Porinero:

when will new chapter come, the one who answers is one sexy bastard

It will come out next week.

Porinero

@Galaxy:

It will come out next week.

Thank you mr sexy bastard

King Cannon

@melody:

well that's what i'm saying.. i don't want him to come back.. and especially be given the title of fleet admiral even though he basically ran away..

He didn't run away. He simply didn't agree with the way things were being run.

This is like saying that somebody can't become the leader of a country for opposing a previous dictatorship.

Sephi

@Razh:

I really think Sanji could beat some of those guys. Don't care what they're "supposed to represent".

Urouge is a physical fighter so Sanji could have a decent chance. Capone too if he can get through his army. Bonney has a nasty devil fruit, so probably no. Not without some seastone maybe. I could see him doing against Killer and Apoo decently, maybe even Drake and Hawkins. Kid and Law are the tricky ones, since they seem to be a little above rest. But I could see Sanji providing a good fight. Their fighting capabilities shouldn't be too far apart. They all have devil fruits abilities, but effectively, so does Sanji.

Hopefully he'll get to show some heavy hitters soon.

Urogue and Capone, if they are just like part 1, Sanji could win easily. We don't know what they are like in part 2 though. You lost me at saying he could EVER so much as put up a fight against Kid or Law though. They are a completely higher level than him imo. Vergo is but one example, but the point stands that it just isn't going to happen. Hell, Zoro is higher than him these days, which makes sense given who their mentors were as well as the fact Sanji is a cook, Zoro a swordsman.

cloudrivera

Was Sanji ever mad that he was never considered a "supernova"? Lol

Smudger

@Sephi:

Urogue and Capone, if they are just like part 1, Sanji could win easily. We don't know what they are like in part 2 though. You lost me at saying he could EVER so much as put up a fight against Kid or Law though. They are a completely higher level than him imo. Vergo is but one example, but the point stands that it just isn't going to happen. Hell, Zoro is higher than him these days, which makes sense given who their mentors were as well as the fact Sanji is a cook, Zoro a swordsman.

You can't make assumptions about strength or skill when we haven't seen the full result of all of thier training the past two years. Plus as we have seen in past arcs, the SH crew members are at their best when properly inspired. A good example would be a comparison of the crew before and after Robin left them during the waters 7/enies lobby arc. Point being that given the right motivation, people like Sanji could transcend their known skill level and possibly defeat stronger adversaries.

Also the position or job they hold within the crew has no bearing on strength levels. If that kind of logic were true, franky would be be in the top 3. Lol

PhoenixBoosh

Since Fuji has the Akainu + Kuzan feel could it be possible that Green Bull is like Akainu + Kizaru. A government dog but is really laid back and cool-headed.

juiceduphody3315

@PhoenixBoosh:

Since Fuji has the Akainu + Kuzan feel could it be possible that Green Bull is like Akainu + Kizaru. A government dog but is really laid back and cool-headed.

Bull and cool headed don't go well for me lol. He is probably a hot head, easily antagonized someone luffy could easily piss off. I really hope Oda doesn't go the hulk route with him though (tank massive damage, green and buff, can tear through anything)

King Cannon

@PhoenixBoosh:

Since Fuji has the Akainu + Kuzan feel could it be possible that Green Bull is like Akainu + Kizaru. A government dog but is really laid back and cool-headed.

If we go by mixing colors logic, he would be a mix of Kuzan and Kizaru.

YoiYoi

Green Bull

Out of all the Admirals, he is the only one not called by his Japanese name around here. You don't see people saying Red Dog or Yellow Monkey.

MJR.

@juiceduphody3315:

Bull and cool headed don't go well for me lol. He is probably a hot head, easily antagonized someone luffy could easily piss off. I really hope Oda doesn't go the hulk route with him though (tank massive damage, green and buff, can tear through anything)

wrong.

A bull is calm, as long as you don't fuck with him.

So Green Bull being a calm person yet extremely dangerous if angered, could really fit in.

Fraco

@Porinero:

Thank you mr sexy bastard

that made me laugh

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@PhoenixBoosh:

Since Fuji has the Akainu + Kuzan feel could it be possible that Green Bull is like Akainu + Kizaru. A government dog but is really laid back and cool-headed.

to me seems more zato + ichi, jokes aside i really don't see similarities between akainu and him, beside the fact that are both immensely powerful, what made you think like that? I'm not arguing, just trying to understand

Monquito

@YoiYoi:

Out of all the Admirals, he is the only one not called by his Japanese name around here. You don't see people saying Red Dog or Yellow Monkey.

Hahaha, yeah, I noticed this too, probably that's his power!! The pronunciation pronunciation no mi!!, it messes up with your toungue not allowing you to call your move and since japanese characters can't do a move without calling it first they all are gonna get wrecked xD

Sephi

@Razh:

Though I can't help but wonder what the point of that broken bone even was. It was just brushed off with seemingly no consequence in the long run. Sanji is running, jumping and kicking as lively as ever. And Vergo's toughness could have been demonstrated in other ways.

Unless Oda plans to turn the wound into a complication later on, which results in Sanji losing a leg or some shit.

I've always wondered about that one myself. Zoros wounds carry over throughout part 1…Sanji's from Vergo hasnt so far.

@King:

I really think people are underestimating Bege, Bonney and Urouge.

Bege's DF seems to be able to shrink anyone who gets close enough to him (interpretation).

Bonney's fruit is Hancock-levels of overpowered.

Urouge, after taking enough damage, was able to toss a Pacifista around, something none of the Straw Hats were able to do alone.

It really tells something when somebody like Cavendish, who has a superpowered split personality, still gets overshadowed by them.

Hmm…good point.

@Jabberwok:

Oh shit here we go. Take cover!

Hahahaha. Zoro vs Sanji seems to be the most common debate I ever see. Its that common. By now it's "Gr8 b8 m8" worthy.
@KageKageKing:

Oda's word guys.
EDIT: Damnit Cannon!

When did he say that? Link please!

@Vectorkov:

Zoro had some lighter moments when he was watching Luffy compete in the Colosseum and I thought his trolling of Sanji about the order of their arrival to Sabaody was subtle but lighthearted. Not enough, I know… but keep in mind he did spend 2 years on despair island with Count Serious and Ghost Girl.

Count serious lol I'll have to remember that one!
@RobZilla:

If Sanji does get a bounty increase after Dressrosa, it'll be for whatever's been happening off the coast of Dressrosa with Big Mom's ship, not for taking on Doffy.

I suppose your right, it's a shame though. Imo people seem to make it sound like what Sanji did when he attacked Doflamingo was no big deal, while I disagree.

Darth

@RobZilla:

Ah "Admiral Level".

God I hate that phrase.

Hmm, I do admit to using it a bit.

Though, at the same time, I have a little bit of a different meaning for it then most…

KageKageKing

@Sephi:

When did he say that? Link please!

http://forums.arlongpark.net/showthread.php?t=42229

Darth

@Icarus:

They were honourable and upstanding once, and some individuals still are but with Akainu at the top they are not any more as an organization, Kuzan knew this, which is why he challenged and fought Akainu.

Why do people mix honourable and lawful?

Contrary to popular believe, those two don't exactly go hand in hand.

I can see Sakazuki doing stuff that would be considered immoral or honourless quite easy.

Doing something un-lawful? Not so much.

TheGreatestSwordsman

@Magi:

What did Crocodile look like in Marineford?
He didn't do anything impressive.
-Blocked some half-assed attack from Mihawk who wasn't trying at all.
-Clashed with some half-assed attack from Doflamingo's foot who also wasn't trying at all and wasn't taking him seriously.
-Got blitzed and dominated by Jozu

Cut another logia in half, something that's been done by several really weak characters.

Got swatted away by G2 Luffy

His performance in MF wasn't great.

Didn't he also help Luffy from Akainu? He looks less out of depth than Luffy for me, and considering he was in jail cell while Luffy learned G2, G3 and found out his King's haki, none of that made any sense at all from a plotline POV.

Robzilla when you look at it from bad plotholes POV, I can see why you would look at it that way. I guess we are at an impasse, but I at least can see your view on this matter better than previously.

Darth

@Icarus:

I can definately imagine Kuzan leading the newly reformed marines after Akainu's fall.

Sorry Darth.

I dunno. Depends on what Oda want's do to with him after the final arc.

He could become someone akin to Dirty Harry, or Punisher.

Who knows, maybe even their very own demolition man… :ninja:

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@SunnyBlue:

If he was promoted to vice-admiral over the next few months in one piece time, would people still complain he's weak?

I'm sorry, have you followed One Piece?

Vice-Admirals are like… the definition of hype machines for other characters. I think they have, as a group, two victories in total, and that includes Garp, who's been said to refuse Admiral promotion.

moud

@Sephi:

Excuse me, only? Someone's overestimating bounties…seriously! 3 to 4 hundred mill would make sense for commanders. Around 500 mill being the higher end of that. Any higher is pushing Yonko levels imo but honestly either of us could be right. We wont know until we see for ourselves.

and you based that opinion on which yonko's bounty ?
yeah 3 to 4 might be reasonable for some yonko commanders (the weaker ones that is) but i don't expect someone like vista , jozu or marco to have equivalent bounties to people like ceasar and the new/pre TS supernova , i'd put the yonko top dogs with the likes of byrandi world , prime chingao and ace's bounties but that's just me … i'd give more examples but our knowledge is very limited on this matter so i'll work with what i have

Paper Nin Konan

@moud:

and you based that opinion on which yonko's bounty ?
yeah 3 to 4 might be reasonable for some yonko commanders (the weaker ones that is) but i don't expect someone like vista , jozu or marco to have equivalent bounties to people like ceasar and the new/pre TS supernova , i'd put the yonko top dogs with the likes of byrandi world , prime chingao and ace's bounties but that's just me … i'd give more examples but our knowledge is very limited on this matter so i'll work with what i have

I need to stress that bounties are not power level rankings but rather threat levels of criminals to the world government especially in the case of someone like Caesar Clown. His knowledge, work with Vegapunk and experiments add to a large tally of the that bounty threat level along with his devil fruit capabilities. While a Yonko commander will be a formiddable fighter and tough guy, not all of those pirates are huge, dangerous threats to the world Governement especially depending on how their Captain is behaving and/or acting.

We don't know unknown bounties so making such assumptions is hard to make as there's no proof. We need to see a high ranking Yonko commanders bounty and a Yonko's bounty to even start to gauge their perceived threat levels of other Yonko. For all we know the yonko may only be on 5-600 million berry line of wanted. Until we see their bounties we simply just don't know.

FireFistAce 0

Besides Ace's, the only Yonko officer's bounty that we're currently aware of is Pekoms at 330,000,000. While this is pure speculation, I'd like to think that Shanks' bounty, for example, is in the 800,000,000 range. It reminds me of when Rockstar acted as a messenger for Shanks, and at 80,000,000, the Whitebeard Pirates didn't even know who he was.

King Cannon

@TheGreatestSwordsman:

Didn't he also help Luffy from Akainu?

He split a Logia in half from afar with his ability… something Usopp also did just in this arc.

Robin crushed Monet with her ability from afar too. What Crocodile did to Akainu was nothing special, really.

moud

@Paper:

I need to stress that bounties are not power level rankings but rather threat levels of criminals to the world government especially in the case of someone like Caesar Clown. His knowledge, work with Vegapunk and experiments add to a large tally of the that bounty threat level along with his devil fruit capabilities. While a Yonko commander will be a formiddable fighter and tough guy, not all of those pirates are huge, dangerous threats to the world Governement especially depending on how their Captain is behaving and/or acting.

We don't know unknown bounties so making such assumptions is hard to make as there's no proof. We need to see a high ranking Yonko commanders bounty and a Yonko's bounty to even start to gauge their perceived threat levels of other Yonko. For all we know the yonko may only be on 5-600 million berry line of wanted. Until we see their bounties we simply just don't know.

i never said they are .. bouties can be determined by either ones threat , importance or the difficulty of capturing that individual .. the world government consider piracy as a great threat that's why they put such "high bounties" on supernova and the famous paradise pirates even though they might not be opposing the WG directly now how much threat would you consider the greatest pirates and their crews to have for the ones who rule over the new world how many crimes do you think they can commit there unpunished .. considering what i just said and considering how hard it would be to capture a yonko commander and the calamity that'd follow on the bounty hunter for having to face the yonko's wrath afterwords , i like to think that simply being part of a yonko crew adds on to the individual's level of threat thus adding on to his bounty

as for ceasar his scientific knowledge doesn't reflect only on his work but his strength as well but yeah his bounty overall is influenced by other factors i won't disagree but you still have a good number of individuals having bounties around 3 mil and up comparing their level of threat to the guys we saw in marineford would be utterly unjust

Torao

by the way looking at the raw i have to ask, why is cabbage written as kyabeshi? wouldnt kyabe"ji" be more fitting? does it even mean cabbage in japanese?

melody of dead.deanders

@King:

He didn't run away. He simply didn't agree with the way things were being run.

This is like saying that somebody can't become the leader of a country for opposing a previous dictatorship.

but he could've stay and try to change it from the inside..

Vectorkov

@melody:

but he could've stay and try to change it from the inside..

Not after his confrontation with Akainu

Darth

@Vectorkov:

Not after his confrontation with Akainu

One would think that being one of the leaders would give him some measure of influence.

Especially since Garp would probably back him up.

Though I suppose it depends on whatever he cares more about marines, or his vision of marines…

Vectorkov

@Darth:

One would think that being one of the leaders would give him some measure of influence.

Especially since Garp would probably back him up.

Though I suppose it depends on whatever he cares more about marines, or his vision of marines…

I don't know, you generally don't pick a fight with a powerful alpha dog at work, lose, and then stick around with all of your influence intact. Usually you just resign before you're fired and find another job or start your own venture if you still have a passion for what you do.

Also, I feel Garp doesn't have as much influence as he used to considering his "family issues" have become public knowledge. Maybe he could convince someone to check the "eligible for rehire" box on Aokiji's resignation forms.

King Cannon

@Darth:

One would think that being one of the leaders would give him some measure of influence.

Especially since Garp would probably back him up.

Though I suppose it depends on whatever he cares more about marines, or his vision of marines…

Neither Garp nor Sengoku were active anymore, so their backup would probably not mean much (especially compared with the Gorosei's own Akainu backup).

Even less after Garp's family lineage was revealed. Guess Kuzan thought he could accomplish more outside of Akainu's influence.

gomugomuspam

the WG and Navy heads definitely knew about his lineage already. it being made public shouldn't have made that much of a difference for Garp

TheGreatestSwordsman

@King:

He split a Logia in half from afar with his ability… something Usopp also did just in this arc.

Robin crushed Monet with her ability from afar too. What Crocodile did to Akainu was nothing special, really.

Do you see any of the SH at this time do that to Akainu at this point in time?

Vectorkov

@gomugomuspam:

the WG and Navy heads definitely knew about his lineage already.

Most likely, but it could be a public relations fumble and the WG likes to maintain its image.

King Cannon

@TheGreatestSwordsman:

Do you see any of the SH at this time do that to Akainu at this point in time?

Robin did it pretty fine to Kuzan (who is pretty much Akainu's equal) at Long Ring Island (crushing him to bits).

This is not really my point though. Destroying a Logia's elemental form isn't hard unless it's something intangible (and even then, it's not impossible as seen by Apoo and Kizaru). Crocodile didn't hurt Akainu at all.

So yeah, in the end, Crocodile was blocked by several people (Mihawk, Doula and Luffy), got overwhelmed by Jozu at one point and was played around by Doula Mongo. He didn't really look that impressive in hindsight.

RamistaR

Not to you apparently. I don't recall Crocodile being portrayed as physically strong during Alabasta so it surprised me when he blocked the strongest swordman with his hook.
Dunno maybe he got stronger in prison, but it is still impressive to see a completely different Croc than the one in Alabasta.
Moria for instance didn't impress me.

shanksa

oh i remember when crobo boy block akainu's attack in marineford.

Magi

@RamistaR:

Not to you apparently. I don't recall Crocodile being portrayed as physically strong during Alabasta so it surprised me when he blocked the strongest swordman with his hook.
Dunno maybe he got stronger in prison, but it is still impressive to see a completely different Croc than the one in Alabasta.
Moria for instance didn't impress me.

Even Daz bones blocked an attack from Mihawk. I wouldn't pay too much attention to it.

RamistaR

@Magi:

Even Daz bones blocked an attack from Mihawk. I wouldn't pay too much attention to it.

So Croc wasn't impressive because Daz Bones did the same. Ohohoho! Nah it just means that they were both impressive. (even if it didn't last long in Daz's case)

PS: for what it's worth (not much I guess), Daz blocked a flying slash, not the actual blade.

sabinis

@RamistaR:

So Croc wasn't impressive because Daz Bones did the same. Ohohoho! Nah it just means that they were both impressive. (even if it didn't last long in Daz's case)

PS: for what it's worth (not much I guess), Daz blocked a flying slash, not the actual blade.

I lately started to understand even better Odas concept of "strong person" and I think he introduced us to it with Hyozou blocking Luffys Jet Punch and poisoning Luffy in process for the first time after timeskip.
Sure thing that even drugged up Hyouzou was no match for Zoro who is behind Luffy when it comes to fighting but it didnt stopped Hyouzou before steroids to be acknowledged by Luffy as strong guy.

It was kind of same with Crocodile and Mihawk I guess as difference might not have been as big as between Luffy and Hyouzou. I would not look that much into it beside Oda showing us that Crocodile was "pretty strong" even compared to likes of Mihawk, Jozu or even Doflamingo. Luffy was many times weaker than Croco during Alabasta and I would say that our Rubber guy didnt grown as much into strength as more into technique(and developing doping for what he lacked at one point) during his journey to Shabondy so Crocodile even if stopped once by Luffy would have very big chances at beating him if they fought at Marineford.

When I look back at some of Dressrosa chapters I am glad that Violet stopped Luffy from fighting Gladius as who knows if he would not wound Luffy before being taken down and make it impossible for Luffy to finish up Doflamingo. Dangerous people with dangerous abilities dont have to be on par with somebody to wound or beat them(Cesar fights or Monet words) and I really like that Oda seems to have it at back of his head so he keeps things far more interesting this way. Of course there are still also experienced fighters that have and edge in every area and dominate fights like Doflamingo against Law for example, but moments of hesitation mean getting wounded even for him if he is up against "somebody strong with dangerous power".

Yet it also seems that some fights are still being written in a way that helps us to see how Strawhats compare on paper to other people from New World and that style of matching up people should be lost around time when we see Strawhats and Heart Pirates alliance or Kidd alliance fighting Yonko crew.

meundies

Bottom line is that Luffy is currently in Super Saiyan mode and is capable of going up to 3, he just hasn't been tested or needed to truly show that level of power yet.

Buggy D. Clown

I think the next time we'll see coby, he'll probably got a fruit…maybe a zoan? It be a good power up for him with his soru n all. I think he'll be more accepted with a fruit rather than getting super strong out of no where even with garps training.

RobZilla

@Buggy:

I think the next time we'll see coby, he'll probably got a fruit…maybe a zoan? It be a good power up for him with his soru n all. I think he'll be more accepted with a fruit rather than getting super strong out of no where even with garps training.

On a story level, Coby, as one of the more "normal" characters in the series, with his initial weakness that's been overcome with intense training, I couldn't see Oda giving him a DF.

On a character level, with his romanticism of becoming a "real" marine, I couldn't see him being willing to give up the ability to swim.

I can see him continuing along the Garp route, with overpowering raw physical strength, haki and rokushiki.

moud

@RamistaR:

So Croc wasn't impressive because Daz Bones did the same. Ohohoho! Nah it just means that they were both impressive. (even if it didn't last long in Daz's case)

PS: for what it's worth (not much I guess), Daz blocked a flying slash, not the actual blade.

c'mon we're not gonna pretend like mihawk was actually trying in that war ! he wasn't using haki even buggy survived his sword
if mihawk can cut "anything" what makes you think that he couldn't cut crocodile's hook now that he can't use haki ? unless that mihawk was slacking off
there's a limit to the progress he could've achieved in mere months (specially that he's in his prime and he's not the MC) and his feats against mihawk and doffy can only be explained by their inactivity imo

RobZilla

@moud:

c'mon we're not gonna pretend like mihawk was actually trying in that war ! he wasn't using haki even buggy survived his sword

Buggy can't be cut, regardless of whether haki is used or not.