[urple Hermit;3328881]That's like saying "One Piece's theme of freedom and adventure really is boring 700 chapters later." Literally every great piece of literature is self consistent within its own universe. And just because you have the same theme doesn't mean you don't mix up the formula. I'm not saying necessarily that it needs to keep the same theme. It can go its own way too. But completely trampling it like an ignorant child stepping over a flower garden? Absurd. The theme of surpassing their elders is also laughable. Which kids actually surpassed their elders? Shikamaru maybe? Naruto? bleh. This is exactly why the secondary characters not having any spotlight is absolute garbage if you're going to use that as a theme because none of them ever surpassed the previous generation other than a handful. In fact, that's counterproductive to the theme. Like seriously, if you're gonna show "well gee, it's pretty cool to see that the younger generation can surpass the next generation (and even then I don't really see how most of the arcs really demonstrate that at all)", THROW THE OTHER YOUNGER GENS OUT THERE.
But Freedom and adventure is really broad. A main character can only be an underdog for so long though. As far as surpassing their elders, I'd say Shiki, Chouji, Naruto, Sasuke, and Sakura all either surpassed or supplanted their elders.
Lol are you for real? THE GUY WHO WAS THE SECOND HEAD HONCHO OF THE WAR WASN'T EVEN IMPORTANT. That's actually even proving more that one of the most important villains of the series really doesn't matter.
I thought you were talking about part 1 Kabuto.
And this makes him a great villain… how? Like let's take Aizen for example who basically had power to invade soul Society by himself. Absolute garbage.
True I think I personally evaluate a characters threat as part of how I feel about them. Might not be fancy but it works for me haha
Their discussion came down to "I don't have an answer but hey I'll figure something out... maybe" and years later, it's still pretty clear that the best Kishimoto can come up with is "Talk no Jutsu will solve everything!" Also Pain's motivation and backstory in general was incredibly forced. And sure, vindictive nature can make someone a villain, but really? When that's his entire motivation and directed towards his own team member?
I liked that because he basically acknowledged that he has an impossible task but hes still going to push through. Its better than making up an answer or never asking that question. The rest I agree with. Only Deidara was simple so I don't think he needed much of a motivation. Most of akatsuki spent their time chilling unless they have a task. And they never showed much loyalty or care outside of their pairings.
Forget the plot weight. I'm talking character weight here. Death is a big, emotional, strong thing in human nature, and its use in literature is often taken for granted, but there's a reason why there was a huge amount of hubbub that "ooh, someone's gonna die in Harry Potter!"
- In literature, it doesn't happen often, unless it does in which case the weight of death itself doesn't matter
- Death is part of the human coil of life, but while you may think "that sucks" for an acquaintance or someone on TV, Death matters a lot when it is incredibly personal to us and an innate and intrinsic feeling of true loss, or perhaps an event of incredible magnitude that is a true tragedy.
Also in Harry Potter I feel like the exact same thing happened in the last book when they started dropping like flies. The little house elf and hedwig(?) both died in the first half for no apparent reason but it still worked.
Who gives a shit about what she did for the sand country when we're looking at the actual weight of the loss of life by her sacrifice? Most readers will say "well, gee, that sucks" rather than "damn! I'm really gonna miss old lady Chiyo"
True
Literally everything you were talking about before was "I felt bad because Naruto was really losing someone who lived a similar life to him and paralleled him," where the subject of your emotion was Naruto, not Gaara himself.
Agree to disagree. In my opinion thats a perfectly fine reason to feel sad at someones death.
"Hey guys! I was trained under the fifth hokage and someone who was equal to your mentors as well! Let me show you what I've got by being a complete sandbag for the entirety of the story past the first arc of Part 2!"
No argument there haha
Flags essentially mark in a story/game that would only show up if a certain thing is being STRONGLY nudged as actually going to happen. And "weight" would imply, again, either high stakes involved (such as Luke being the last pilot left to blow up the death star else they'll basically nuke another planet) or something with a strong emotional association to it. Oftentimes, there's both, but killing a member of the top set of evildoers in the series right off the bat? It gives the sense of "Gee I guess these guys are really just a bunch of pushovers."
But they weren't. And Chiyo says that Sasori purposefully didn't dodge that last attack or he would have killed them so it was a hollow victory.
That's exactly the problem. If it were some random death just to move the story like if Asuma were hunting down Hidan only to face his death as the start of the new arc, that'd be completely different from "I'M GOING TO MAKE A BIG POINT ABOUT THIS DEATH HERE ARE YOU GUYS LISTENING AND WATCHING?". The fact that Kishimoto made it a big deal is why it's a huge problem with his death.
Once again I think the fact that this was Shikamaru's mentor, someone who is in the same category as Kakashi and Might Guy, is enough to allow some twinge of emotion. Especially when he is killed in front of Shikimaru's face. It would have been less impactful if he was by himself.
And while we didn't know much about Jiraiya, we had a ton of time to really bond with him as readers. "Hey it's that pervert guy who's really hilarious and is really cool and makes a bunch of fun jokes but really knows how to do shit when things get real." We as the audience really got to know him beyond a name, occupation, and general style of fighting. that's what made his part of the story impactful rather than "he was a strong ninja."
I mean we had a ton of time because he was introduced, but its not like we knew much about him. That stuff you described is super shallow. That could be the 3rd hokage.
It absolutely is necessary because that's the reader's tie into the world. Who gives a shit about rebels or the empire without a protagonist that's essentially the eyes and is our guide to really building the universe around them? The protagonist is there because, as with many silent video game protagonists, they're our gateway to "The World", which is build not only from the actual descriptions of the location and universe the story takes place in but the actual personality and lives of everything going around him. That's the personal emotional investment that goes beyond "well at least the fight had neat effects!"
I guess I should say I don't need a ton of emotional investment to enjoy a story or villain
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Again, that's why I said "there are some things that indicate a higher level and quality of writing".
But on the other hand, some people will have a preference for characters or world building or anything, so some will rank certain stories above others based on that preference.
Naruto is in the special category where there is literally nothing in terms of quality of writing that will save it.
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Also if someone could tell me how to reply to messages in chunks I would greatly appreciate it 
