In chapter 96 when that ranking Marine officer is giving a speech to all of the Marine soldiers I think the scene would have been even better on a re read if had been Akainu who was giving the speech, especially considering that he mentioned absolute justice and that was the big East Blue scene for the Marines buildup throughout the saga.
Wasted opportunities of One Piece
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In chapter 96 when that ranking Marine officer is giving a speech to all of the Marine soldiers I think the scene would have been even better on a re read if had been Akainu who was giving the speech, especially considering that he mentioned absolute justice and that was the big East Blue scene for the Marines buildup throughout the saga.
Was it John Giant? I think it was John Giant.
It makes sense though. Ranking Admirals probably have more important duties then giving speeches.
Which, btw, always felt weird to me, that speech. Don't get me wrong, the double spread with Justice coats? Awesome. But why is he giving such basic speech to what is basicaly veterans? Cause you need to be a ranking officer to get that coat, or at least that always seemed the case…
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Which is absolutely retarded
Retarded would be to come up with designs for an Emperor and his crew and have them be defeated in a side plot instead of the main one.
Its cool for Luffy to take down his fair share of villains. But he has taken down almost half of the known shichibukai. He's pretty much making Fujitora more useless than he is already. Now he's gonna take down every Yonko? Thats shit tier writing. I' be happy if Kid's group beats BM in the long run. Also, Law finishing off Dofla would be for the better. Its his grudge. Luffy's basically butting into to everybody's business and being a hero when he constantly says he doesnt want to be one. lol. Oda really needs to stop with this recycled formula. Its getting old really fast.
He's been doing that for +700 chapters.
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Not really.
If what you say is true, then there is no need for worldbuilding where characters matter only in relation to main characters.
They are main characters for a reason.
Do you really think it's possible a major player like an Emperor to never be involved with the main characters?
It's unrealistic to expect Luffy will beat every Emperor. I don't even need to explain why.
Just like it's unrealistic to expect Luffy to be the only guy taking down Warlords?
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No he doesnt. Its shit writing. You can have an antagonist beaten by other characters.. Even then you can still give them depth. Other shounen manga have done it loads of times ( Examples are JoJo and HXH ).
Giving the main character all of the fights isnt good in no way shape or form."I don't like how the story is about the Straw Hats, even though the story is about the Straw Hats!"
Also, yes, we do need to know the main members of her crew. He already went through the process of creating 40 different allies for Whitebeard + 16 Commanders after all.
Okay, I'm going to simply ask.
Would it hurt the story to instead build the villains more, and build the rivals more, by showing various conflicts and adventures they are involved in, not including Straw Hats in them?
Do chapters that don't involve any Straw Hats get massive drop in ratings? We know that people enjoyed relatively light on Straw Hats as a whole Marineford and Impel Down arcs. And that they sold well.
Actually, it would hurt the story because it would make it drag even more, which is a frequent complaint from you, Mr. Darth. Remember that the person making this is a human.
It works to have the Straw Hats as the main protagonists because they're already fully-developed characters, so you don't need to waste several chapters developing new characters.
For example, take the Colosseum gladiators, imagine if Oda had to fully develop single one of them so that we could care about their fights. Or in Skypiea, if Oda had to fully develop every Shandian Warrior so that we could get invested in their fights. Or the Whitebeard Commanders.
Basically, Oda would be needing to create new "protagonists" left and right, instead of simply going back to his old, established protagonists.
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We dont need to know about every member of her crew. Thats why OP is dragging out now. Also, Its funny how we've gotten loads of chaps post skip and most of the Strawhats have little to no personality at all.
No he doesnt. Its shit writing. You can have an antagonist beaten by other characters.. Even then you can still give them depth. Other shounen manga have done it loads of times ( Examples are JoJo and HXH ).
Giving the main character all of the fights isnt good in no way shape or form.Hey it's the revival of the "kids not knowing anything about writing yet still calls anything that they don't like terrible writing " trend .
Good old times …................. -
Retarded would be to come up with designs for an Emperor and his crew and have them be defeated in a side plot instead of the main one.
It doesnt have to be a "side arc". Give the other supernovas the spotlight. Giving the MC all of the spotlight is some shit Fairy Tail would do. Its cliche and boring.
Hey it's the revival of the "kids not knowing anything about writing yet still calls anything that they don't like terrible writing " trend .
Good old times ….................Dem comprehension skills.
More like its the " ZOMG One Pice is the greatest manga ever. There are no flaws. All Hail Goda! Ermagawd!!"
You dont need 100+ chapters to introduce characters. Thats exactly what Oda's doing now. If you think that he needs loads of chapters to introduce characters and give them a bit of personality, then you dont know what you're talking about. I've seen shorter stories that has more character depth than OP. Even some under 100 chaps.
Just look at the Dressrosa arc has a whole. Half the shit on this island is stuff he could've seriously left out. He created a convoluted
mess that could've been avoided. -
It doesnt have to be a "side arc". Give the other supernovas the spotlight. Giving the MC all of the spotlight is some shit Fairy Tail would do. Its cliche and boring.
To give the other Supernovas the spotlight, he would have to develop them a lot for them to stand on their own.
You know, most Hunter x Hunter characters required a good deal of chapters to become enough developed to work on their own. Knuckle, Morel, Knov…
And they still needed some of the MC with them.
Dem comprehension skills.
More like its the " ZOMG One Pice is the greatest manga ever. There are no flaws. All Hail Goda! Ermagawd!!"
You dont need 100+ chapters to introduce characters. Thats exactly what Oda's doing now. If you think that he needs loads of chapters to introduce characters and give them a bit of personality, then you dont know what you're talking about. I've seen shorter stories that has more character depth than OP. Even some under 100 chaps.
Just look at the Dressrosa arc has a whole. Half the shit on this island is stuff he could've seriously left out. He created a convoluted
mess that could've been avoided.How do you know that?
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To give the other Supernovas the spotlight, he would have to develop them a lot for them to stand on their own.
That shouldnt be hard to do. Especially since he's spending chaps on stuff no one cares about. Or rather, giving us too much information that isnt needed.
The Supernovas are supposed to be rivals. But if they are basicaly irrelevant if Luffy just beats everybody and they are just there because.How do you know that?
Dressrosa has how many chaps? Think about that for a second. Anybody who thinks this is good pacing is a fool.
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It doesnt have to be a "side arc". Give the other supernovas the spotlight. Giving the MC all of the spotlight is some shit Fairy Tail would do. Its cliche and boring.
Dem comprehension skills.
More like its the " ZOMG One Pice is the greatest manga ever. There are no flaws. All Hail Goda! Ermagawd!!"
You dont need 100+ chapters to introduce characters. Thats exactly what Oda's doing now. If you think that he needs loads of chapters to introduce characters and give them a bit of personality, then you dont know what you're talking about. I've seen shorter stories that has more character depth than OP. Even some under 100 chaps.
Just look at the Dressrosa arc has a whole. Half the shit on this island is stuff he could've seriously left out. He created a convoluted
mess that could've been avoided.So in short you don't have a single clue as to how adventure stories in general are written or even work …... Cool to know .............. even if i couldn't care less about this ill-formed and irrelevant "opinion" .
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That shouldnt be hard to do. Especially since he's spending chaps on stuff no one cares about. Or rather, giving us too much information that isnt needed.
The Supernovas are supposed to be rivals. But if they are basicaly irrelevant if Luffy just beats everybody and they are just there because.Well, what if people don't care about the Supernova?
You think they're all as popular as Law? That Oda could just make them protagonists of their own arcs and expect the people to immediately care?
Dressrosa has how many chaps? Think about that for a second. Anybody who thinks this is good pacing is a fool.
Number of chapters is not a good argument. Oda needs the story to be as long as he wants it to be.
I mean, he was already cutting corners by sending half of the MC away and skipping fights. Even with that in mind, you think he's just adding unnecessary stuff?
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That shouldnt be hard to do. Especially since he's spending chaps on stuff no one cares about. Or rather, giving us too much information that isnt needed.
The Supernovas are supposed to be rivals. But if they are basicaly irrelevant if Luffy just beats everybody and they are just there because.Dressrosa has how many chaps? Think about that for a second. Anybody who thinks this is good pacing is a fool.
Oh you are referring to those battle junkies who consider everything to be "irrelevant" that is not fights ? LOL What a solid argument this is .
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Well, what if people don't care about the Supernova?
Oh but we care about Rebecca, Dwarves and the rest?
Number of chapters is not a good argument. Oda needs the story to be as long as he wants it to be.
It is actually. Pacing is an issue. Anybody who reads knows that bad pacing is never a good thing.
I mean, he was already cutting corners by sending half of the MC away and skipping fights. Even with that in mind, you think he's just adding unnecessary stuff?
Cutting corners and its still long as fuck. What does that tell you?
So in short you don't have a single clue as to how adventure stories in general are written or even work …... Cool to know .............. even if i couldn't care less about this ill-formed and irrelevant "opinion" .
Have you read HXH? It has adventure vibes. Much shorter and the arcs arent that long outside of the Ant arc. Togashi's lazy ass does real well with character depth and gives supporting characters enough screentime. There's also JoJo's Bizarre Adventure. Araki gives supporting characters great depth and backstory. Not to mention he completes each part in about a fifth of what OP's total chapter count is.
So more like you are spouting nonsense and trying to defend shit because you like the manga.
But you'll reply with a one liner anyway. " Lel you dont know what you're talking about. OP is great!" -
Have you read HXH? It has adventure vibes. Much shorter and the arcs arent taht long outside of the Ant arc. Togashi's lazy ass does real well with character depth and gives supporting characters enough screentime. There's also JoJo's Bizarre Adventure. Araki gives supporting characters great depth and backstory. Not to mention he completes each part in about a fifth of what OP's total chapter count.
So more like you are spouting nonsense and trying to defend shit because you like the manga.Hunter x Hunter has way less characters in its arcs. So much that Leorio and Kurapika, who are supposedly main characters, are left out for most of them.
Heck, tell me one HxH arc that didn't have one of the main 4 as main characters. Are you telling me Knuckle has his own arc? Or Morel? Or Isaac?
JoJo also has way less characters.
One Piece, meanwhile, has 9 main characters alone, and yet you're still expecting other characters to have the spotlight just for themselves. A bit unfair, no?
Hunter x Hunter: 4 main characters, with 1-2 being present + support characters.
One Piece: 9 main characters + support characters + 8-9 rivals.Of course it's easier for HxH to have more character depth. Why not tell Togashi to give the spotlight to every Zodiac member? Give each one of them their own arcs and not rely on Leorio and Kurapika like supporting characters?
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Hunter x Hunter has way less characters in its arcs. So much that Leorio and Kurapika, who are supposedly main characters, are left out for most of them.[/q
Heck, tell me one HxH arc that didn't have one of the main 4 as main characters. Are you telling me Knuckle has his own arc? Or Morel? Or Isaac?
Morel isnt a contender for the top. Nor is Knuckle. But, we do see shit like Netero vs King. There's also the fact that HXH's arcs dont end like generic shounen usually would. Basically, powerlevels can be trumped with a bit of intel and bad match ups. Something that wont ever happen in OP. Which is winning by using your brain even though you're severely outclassed.
JoJo also has way less characters.
And? Supporting characters still get there fair share of the spotlight. Hell, one of the supporting characters of Part 6 ultimately beat the villain after he soloed the entire cast
One Piece, meanwhile, has 9 main characters alone, and yet you're still expecting other characters to have the spotlight just for themselves. A bit unfair, no?
All whom are irrelevant post skip. Outside of Zoro and Luffy anyway.
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Morel isnt a contender for the top. Nor is Knuckle. But, we do see shit like Netero vs King.
We also saw Ace versus Blackbeard, Ivanokov versus Magellan, Crocodile versus Doflamingo, Buggy versus Mihawk, Hancock versus Smoker, Whitebeard versus Aikanu and Blackbeard. What's your point?
Hunter X Hunter only has four main characters. And it abandoned two of them for nearly FOURTEEN YEARS.
And we're probably not going to see Killua again for a decade now.
Of course its going to focus on tertiary characters at that point.
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We also saw Ace versus Blackbeard, what's your point? Ivanokov versus Magellan, Crocodile versus Doflamingo, Buggy versus Mihawk, Hancock versus Smoker, Whitebeard versus Aikanu and Blackbeard. What's your point?
I liked that fight and hopefully, we can see more battles between characters fighting people who arent the strawhats.
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Basically, powerlevels can be trumped with a bit of intel and bad match ups. Something that wont ever happen in OP. Which is winning by using your brain even though you're severely outclassed.
So most of Usopp's fights then.
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Have you read HXH? It has adventure vibes. Much shorter and the arcs arent taht long outside of the Ant arc. Togashi's lazy ass does real well with character depth and gives supporting characters enough screentime. There's also JoJo's Bizarre Adventure. Araki gives supporting characters great depth and backstory. Not to mention he completes each part in about a fifth of what OP's total chapter count.
So more like you are spouting nonsense and trying to defend shit because you like the manga.Much Shorter arc's ?!??! LOL Did you forget about Greed Island arc that is 65 chapters long ( which is closer to One Piece longest arc Skypiea with 66 chapters and Greed Island isn't even the longest arc in the series ) and essentially a pointless arc that provided nothing new in terms of plot or even told us anything new about the main characters in any way .
"Not to mention he completes each part in about a fifth of what OP's total chapter count. " Didn't you just criticize Oda of this by saying "Especially since he's spending chaps on stuff no one cares about" And yet Togashi literally shoving pointless exposition that nobody will ever give two shits about is suddenly good ? Fanboy much ? Also LOL @ the big words = character depth .
"character depth and gives supporting characters enough screentime" I am sorry but are we reading the same series here ? Where two of the four main characters were absent for the longest arc's in the series which is like over 200 chapters ? And since when did fights = character depth? Giving screen-time to some personality-less generic character that audience (aside from battle junkies) couldn't give two shits about ? Chimera Ant arc featuring these battles is considered to be one of the weakest and most dragged out point of the arc .
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Wanting the Supernova to have their own arc is like wanting the Zodiac to have their own arc (I really would love to see that) with no main characters involved.
But that won't happen now that we 2 main characters as part of them now.
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Morel isnt a contender for the top. Nor is Knuckle. But, we do see shit like Netero vs King. There's also the fact that HXH's arcs dont end like generic shounen usually would. Basically, powerlevels can be trumped with a bit of intel and bad match ups. Something that wont ever happen in OP. Which is winning by using your brain even though you're severely outclassed.
And? Supporting characters still get there fair share of the spotlight. Hell, one of the supporting characters of Part 6 ultimately beat the villain after he soloed the entire cast
All whom are irrelevant post skip. Outside of Zoro and Luffy anyway.
You mean how "adult" Gon literally came out of nowhere and dominated the shit outta Pitou , you know like one of the biggest shonen cliches? But yea Power ups = using brain….............
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All whom are irrelevant post skip. Outside of Zoro and Luffy anyway.
Ah, you're just a power battle junkie, completely ignoring the fight Usopp just had, or the total beatdowns Franky delivered on Punk Hazard or his current battle, or the battles Law and Smoker have had, or when Brook defeated Jora and saved half the crew.
Or that everyone (save Nami) showcased similar levels of powerup and battle competence at Fishman Island.
Because they aren't straight forward beatdowns with pure force.
Oh but we care about Rebecca, Dwarves and the rest?
Dwarves not so much. Rebecca yes. Law, yes.
And Bartomoleo and Cavendish, if the character popularity tournament is any indication.
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Just like it's unrealistic to expect Luffy to be the only guy taking down Warlords?
Warlords have a higher encounter rate.
It's different now, and you know it. You could let it slide when it was just SH sailing Paradise. But now we have several pretenders to the throne and a shitload of others who want to kill them ot take their place. It would make a lot of that world building useless. I hope Oda doesn't do it too blatantly.
Even with Wardlords you mentioned, there were some different circumstances with different relationships. Some of them fought other people and some of the characters we knew took places of some of them. They weren't just aligning their positions waiting for Luffy to come and beat them up.
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@Galaxy:
So most of Usopp's fights then.
Exactly. But we need to see more of that from relevant characters.
Much Shorter arc's ?!??! LOL Did you forget about Greed Island arc that is 65 chapters long ( which is closer to One Piece longest arc Skypiea with 66 chapters and Greed Island isn't even the longest arc in the series ) and essentially a pointless arc that provided nothing new in terms of plot or even told us anything new about the main characters in any way .
GI was shit and I completely agree.
"Not to mention he completes each part in about a fifth of what OP's total chapter count. "
I specifically said " JoJo" when I said that. But you obviously have comprehension problems so no worries.
Didn't you just criticize Oda of this by saying "Especially since he's spending chaps on stuff no one cares about" And yet Togashi literally shoving pointless exposition that nobody will ever give two shits about is suddenly good ? Fanboy much ? Also LOL @ the big words = character depth .
Big words = character death? My sides
KIllua has a pretty complicated past and a unique bond with Gon, King went from merciless killer to seeing that humankind was worth studying. Lets compare Killua to someone like erm…. lets say Luffy. He lost his brother and somehow got dumber over the timeskip.
Fanboy? WHat a cop out argument. HXH itself is rather generic. But it has what OP dont in most cases."character depth and gives supporting characters enough screentime" I am sorry but are we reading the same series here ? Where two of the four main characters were absent for the longest arc's in the series which is like over 200 chapters ?
The two main characters in the manga are Gon and Killua. Lereo and Kurapika arent really main characters. Based on panel time anyway. they are like there YYH counterparts but in a way, not really
And since when did fights = character depth? Giving screen-time to some personality-less generic character that audience (aside from battle junkies) couldn't give two shits about ?
So Kurapika's decision to choose his friends over revenge wasnt sign of growth? Really?
Chimera Ant arc featuring these battles is considered to be one of the weakest and most dragged out point of the arc .
And I said that above did I not?
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I like that a series can literally ditch 2/4 of its main cast for literally a decade and a half, to the point they are no longer considered main characters at all, but it's still being pointed to as the series that had good balance of screen time for characters.
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Exactly. But we need to see more of that from relevant characters.
Ah, so one of the main protagonists that has been in the story since 1997 isn't relevant? We've seen Nami defeat opponents much stronger than her with strategy, not power level (even the awful fanservice Kalifa fight has this).
Back on Punk Hazard, Monet nearly defeated Luffy, and even stated herself that she was nowhere near him in strength. Strategy and wits have always been a major part of how fights are won in this series.
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Wanting the Supernova to have their own arc is like wanting the Zodiac to have their own arc (I really would love to see that) with no main characters involved.
But that won't happen now that we 2 main characters as part of them now.
Poster above explained it perfectly. A lot of people want their heads? But somehow they can only be beaten when Luffy comes along? Come on now
You mean how "adult" Gon literally came out of nowhere and dominated the shit outta Pitou , you know like one of the biggest shonen cliches? But yea Power ups = using brain….............
That was an asspull no doubt. But in terms of asspull victories, OP has HXH beat by miles.
Ah, you're just a power battle junkie, completely ignoring the fight Usopp just had, or the total beatdowns Franky delivered on Punk Hazard or his current battle, or the battles Law and Smoker have had, or when Brook defeated Jora and saved half the crew.
Its not about being a battle junkie. They arent doing much . All Nami and co are doing is panicking while Law is saving their ass. No one is formulating strategies, nada.
But I forgotabout Franky though.
Or that everyone (save Nami) showcased similar levels of powerup and battle competence at Fishman Island.
Because they aren't straight forward beatdowns with pure force.
Nami going back to her thievory on PH was one of the better things. We need more of that.
Also, in terms of strength, they shouldnt be helpless in most situations. But they are. The skip was basically focusing on this exact point.Dwarves not so much. Rebecca yes. Law, yes.
And Bartomoleo and Cavendish, if the character popularity tournament is any indication.
This arc was supposed to be more Law centric. Half the events could've been left out/
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@Galaxy:
Ah, so one of the main protagonists that has been in the story since 1997 isn't relevant? We've seen Nami defeat opponents much stronger than her with strategy, not power level (even the awful fanservice Kalifa fight has this).
I mean by rather bigger threats. Like for instance, Blackbeard using his brain and trolling the WG. That was one of the better points.
Back on Punk Hazard, Monet nearly defeated Luffy, and even stated herself that she was nowhere near him in strength. Strategy and wits have always been a major part of how fights are won in this series.
Major fights? No.
Luffy was also held back by plot in that fight. All he really needed to do was oneshot her, but we needed him to get into a scenario where he fucks up so that he can arrive later and save the day. This is nothing new. -
Oh, so fights don't count if one character uses strategy to win quickly against a stronger enemy.
Got it.
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Oh, so fights don't count if one character uses strategy to win quickly.
Got it.
Its like you read what you wanted to. -_-
Im saying that Luffy was held back with severe CIS in that fight and its like he didnt even take it seriously.
I said above that strategy in fights are a good thing. But you cant tell me that Luffy was even remotely serious in that scenario. -
You're assuming Luffy COULD have one-shotted her, (or Ceaser for that matter) when he was unprepared and caught by surprise.
This is the guy that trapped himself in concrete during the Arlong fight. Luffy is simple. He gets caught by sneaky powers and strategies. Its a problem he tends to have.
It's not like when Goku went Super 3 and purposely held back on Maijin Buu.
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You're assuming Luffy COULD have one-shotted her, when he was unprepared and caught by surprise.
Any of his serious attacks would've wrecked her
This is the guy that trapped himself in concrete during the Arlong fight. Luffy is simple. He gets caught by sneaky powers and strategies. Its a problem he tends to have.
Didnt I say this above? -__-
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CAN isn't the same as should, would or able.
Luffy could, theoretically, one shot most of his opponents if he just starts with a haki hardened gear 3 elephant gattling before they said a single word to him.
But that's not going to happen.
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Actually, it would hurt the story because it would make it drag even more, which is a frequent complaint from you, Mr. Darth. Remember that the person making this is a human.
I complain on pacing of Arc, not an overall story.
And mind you, since pacing is already bloody terrible, I can at least have something out of it.
It works to have the Straw Hats as the main protagonists because they're already fully-developed characters, so you don't need to waste several chapters developing new characters.
… You know, it's not like they are some incredibly deep characters. Or really that developed, for that matter.
For example, take the Colosseum gladiators, imagine if Oda had to fully develop single one of them so that we could care about their fights. Or in Skypiea, if Oda had to fully develop every Shandian Warrior so that we could get invested in their fights. Or the Whitebeard Commanders.
We are not talking about developing minor characters whose only role is to serve as Luffy's allies or mooks to beat up. We are talking about giving panel time to his greatest rivals.
Which, btw, would allow them to have some legitimate succes, because you know that they are going to lose when Straw Hats are involved.
Or any kind of succes, if we are talking about good aligned Marines.
Basically, Oda would be needing to create new "protagonists" left and right, instead of simply going back to his old, established protagonists.
Why?
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@Zar:
I don't think it has to do with time, but rather a way to tell stories.
Its basically the "rule of rollercoasters", as I like to call it (no idea what the correct term in english is, so I'll have to make due with some improvisation). Basically, for a story to be enjoyable you will need variety. You need slow talk to balance the high-speed action, likewise you need laughter to balance out sadness and frustration. If a roller coaster was pointing downwards all the time, it would get boring, wouldn't it? Even if the ride to the top can be boring, it may still be neccesary in order to enjoy the ride down.
If the strawhats had went directly from big arc to big arc, chances are it would've felt like too much. Its also what I feel is happening to the series right now. Its just been one straight rollercoaster since they left fishman island, and to an extent ever since Sabaody, always with some fight or drama looming in the distance. I'd actually rather Oda cut down on useless filler in the big serious arcs (for example, he could probably have removed a good couple of characters from Dressrosa) and instead stick those parts in their own little arc and just have fun with it.
I think this depends on the series. Some series have set tones, and plenty especially shonen manga have a good balance of comedy, action and heart strings being pulled, One Piece being a great example. I know what you mean. Oda's arcs are generally not too tense for a good amount of the arc. It generally goes through exploring and seeing what the people are, Luffy befriending someone, nakama/befriended friend gets needs help/gets kidnapped and things escalate. Still, I do agree with several points that you make.
Your solution isn't bad though, maybe you should talk to Oda about it.
@Galaxy:
Sure, it was definitely needed. Going from the 66 chapter long, and mostly serious Skypiea Arc, to the drama packed Water 7 Arc would've given no breathing room for the readers (or Oda). Before Sabaody, we were given a fun Duval mini-arc, with not much at stake for the crew. The beginning of Sabaody was also focused on exploration and fun around the island, before crap really hit the fan. We were then given another breather with Amazon Lily, before the series went into another 60 chapter, serious storyline with Impel Down and Marineford. Of course, I'm not comparing the light-hearted Davy Back Fight to those breathers, but it goes to show just how important it is for the pace of the story.
How was Skypiea Arc serious? They were exploring for most of the arc until right at the end of it. It was the same as SA. I'd say SA overall was a far more intense arc than Skypiea who also felt a bit left out from the rest of the world. In regards to easy going mini-arcs, this is about preference at the end of the day. Some people enjoy them quite a bit, others less so.
The Davy Back Fight also hardly was "meaningless". Even if you're going to discount Luffy's will to fight for his crewmates (the main reason he decided to go after Robin, which is why I feel it was properly emphasized in the Davy Back Fight), it still is hard to deny that the arc gave us more insight into the world of One Piece. We found out about a major "game" in the One Piece world, and got to experience what it was like to take part in it. I'd say you're really exaggerating on a whole 20 extra years being added to the story, with the arc running a total length of 19 chapters, where an entire 1/4th of the arc is spent encountering Kuzan, learning more about the Marines, and encountering more Grand Line phenomenon (Sea Monkeys, the moving Long Ring Long Land, and even within the Davy Back Fight itself with the Donut Race). So really, the Davy Back Fight itself was around 12 chapters, and therefore not that big of a problem.
If you want to convince yourself that it wasn't meaningless by repeating the same exact theme we've always known, go ahead. However the 2nd most important theme past sense of adventure in One Piece is the bond of the nakama on the ship. At least, that's the case for me and we may differ here?! That has been obvious during Zoro's fight vs Mihawk, entire Nami arc, what Luffy went through for Vivi, and again Nami getting kidnapped on top of his nakama getting crushed by "God". This has always been apparent. This tone has been enforced heavily in almost every major arc.
I don't include Kuzan as part of the Davey Back arc and I don't see why you're adding it there either.
I hope you've read the manga as well for the East Blue, because if you've only "seen" the anime it's not fair to judge Oda's pacing for that saga (sorry if I'm misinterpreting your wording).
100 chapters, wherein we were given backstories for 5 of the main characters, introduced to characters that are still relevant to this day (Buggy, Smoker, Tashigi, the crew of a Yonko and the Yonko himself, a Shichibukai, the leader of the revolutionary Army), introduced to characters that have had roles in future arcs or flashbacks (Arlong, Hatchan, and the rest of the Arlong Pirates), and the introduction of themes that have continued to be prevalent in this manga (fishmen and human relations, government corruption, adventure, and friendship) And even for those who love their fights, the fights from Buggy to Arlong were all fun and such. So yeah… I would've been pretty worried back then if introducing us to the world of One Piece and letting us get to know half of the protagonists took less than 100 chapters.
The main story aspects are introduced 50+ chapters after chapter 1. Unless you find Luffy rounding up Zoro, Nami and Ussop while introducing Buggy enough for 50 chapters, then fair enough. To me, that entire segment was bloated. I stopped following One Piece the first time around when I was watching the first episodes of One Piece. I restarted a year or two later since I heard such great things about the series. The beginning of the series has no real semblance of a deep plot other than a guy who enjoys sailing to sea and recruiting people. It wasn't until the Mihawk's introduction and the incredible Arlong Park arc that the series gained any real interest for me. I had to grind a bit to get there however.
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This is more of a potential/future wasted opportunity if it ultimately doesn't come to pass…
But if we don't get a Strawhat member who is female, Battle-hardy (Zoro, Sanji, Franky or even Brook type), and not just another hourglass figure clone of Nami. I hope we get one more female crew member and I doubt he'll do Nami's face for her, but it would be fantastic if she had a different body type from the other women. So she also stands out esthetically. Honestly if Jimbei was a woman, this conversation would be done already, so I'm crossing my figures Ivakov runs across Jimbei again.
I've been thinking about it, one of the things I loved about One Piece starting out was the gender diversity Oda created with the concept of the Baroque Works top agents. From Ms. Monday to Ms. Double-Finger, that one group gave us a superior range of female characters that we honestly haven't seen again since this current arc, Dressrosa. Though some characters this arc could be better developed as far as an interesting design (I'm definitely looking at you Viola and Rebecca!)
Great topic by the way.
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Not having any mention, at all, about the other supernovas during the strawhats journey through paradise.
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And thus, he made a lot of people believe a character is dead.
And people (on this very forum) have gotten panicked before in like the Zoro situation. He gets the stakes up high enough ocassionally that it works. Not so much when say, Hachi or Law is shot, but he definitely gets in his dramtic "oh crap moments."
But yes, Monet and Vergo are alive and will probably appear in the next coverstory once Dresserosa is done.
That's not in any way a positive. When you have half the people believing that someone is alive after getting stabbed in the heart, that's not a good argument for Oda being able to make people think they're dead when they are not. Isn't the Zoro situation 6-7 years ago? Isn't that again proving my point? Oda has done "dead but not dead" trope so many times and he's stated that one of the three things he doesn't want in his series is death. Other than Shanks and his crew, Mihawk, possibly Teach, and at best one more SH, it's tough to see anyone else dying. For a series of dangerous pirates in the sea over a 30-40 year timeframe, that's pretty bad.
Thats cause Attack on Titan is a different series with a different tone. It's a post-apocalyptic dark fantasy. Of course something in that setting is frought with death and danger. There's levels of danger in Berserk too, but that's besides the point?
That aint what One Piece is.
It isn't what MOST shonen manga are. They're usually going to have fight to your limits near death matches without dying, where dreams and friendship are ultimately more important, especially if its a Jump title. Even the super dark Hunter X Hunter where people can die randomly doesn't have much sense of danger for the leads anymore.
Isn't that the entire point of this topic? It's because it isn't that we're disucussing it. It's true AoT focuses a lot more on that type of tone. I don't find the excuse of look at other series that don't do something very well, so it's ok if One Piece does it as well.. though I think OP is the worst culprit of all shonens in this regard. In regards to HxH, I would say other than Gon and Killua, everyone else can die at some point. In One Piece, it's a totally different story.
Usopp's shining moment two chapters ago was amazing. If you didn't like THAT you should just stop reading the series now.
I thought it was a pretty cool moment, but it's silly to suggest someone stops reading/watching it if they don't like a scene you do. I'm talking about the moment Ussop knocked Sugar out the first time. That was incredibly cringeworthy.
The theme is adventure. They explore the island, (be it snow, sky, amusement park, toyland, amazons, prison) they meet people, they beat the badguy. That's any and every series ever, especially long running ones. What more do you want? An arc with Sengoku doing paperwork? Another Davy Back Fight?
Sabondy with its huge number of rivals was pretty different. Then that was immediately followed by Amazon Lilly, Impel Down and the War massively broke the usual patterns. None of the strawhats were there, Luffy failed to beat any of the big bads, and in fact lost pretty much the entire two year period. That was FOUR ARCS IN A ROW that were completely different from the rest of the series, and fairly recently at that.
That's why Sabondy is my favorite arc. It felt fresh and different. The War also a nice pace of change which also made it one of my favorite arcs. When Oda changes things around, the arcs really shine. You're mentioning the only time where Oda actually strays from what I mentioned, and it happened in a row. That is also one of the best segments of OP for me.
Every single strawhat has needed Lufy to save them in their introduction arc. Every single one. Plus Ace. And Law this arc. Even if you're counting Vivi and Shirahoshi AND Camie (wich is a stretch because her situation was all of half a chapter long, and Hachi was in trouble at the same time), but counting those and Nami and Robin, that's still 9 men that have needed saving compared to 5 women. But if your going to count Camie, you should also count Tonjit from Long Long Ring, and Cricket from Jaya… and the entire Skypiean population for that matter.
Oda's been pretty even about the genders of the people that need help. Vivi took charge and action, going undercover and fighting, hardly a "damsel in distress" situation. Nami needed saving, to be sure, but that was because she was sacrificing for her entire village, and while her situation was more emotionally charged, it was no different than helping save Zoro from Marines,protecting Usopp's village from pirates, saving the Baratie for Sanji, beating Wapol for Chopper, or fighting a Shichibukai for Brook. Robin needed saving sure, (after LETTING herself be captured) but so did Franky. And since fixing Robin's emotional problem? She's taken care of herself.
Law has saved Luffy's life, saved Sanji's life after he got punk'd in two hits and the SHs who were all going to get killed on the ship, taken out one of the strongest Vice Admirals shown, taken out another Vice Admiral with all his men and ship at the same time, taken out two of the three executives working for Doflamingo and may even be the one to finish off Doflamingo by the end of the arc. Zoro sacrificed his life to save Luffy and even managed to live after taking all of Luffy's pain. Ace has been saving Luffy's ass since they were kids and even when Luffy "saved" him, it was Ace who lost his life just so he can save Luffy. Hachi was with the SHs I believe in the arc and they went to find Camie because she had been kidnapped. Removing context from those scenes the same. A damsel being captured and needing the hero to save her. This doesn't sound familiar to you.. as in every single main arc?
You're right.. equality.
I do agree that others have needed help as well and to me it's not the difference of how much. Just the repetitious woman getting kidnapped and/or needed to be saved routine as long as it has her crying at some point.
Given that Wano is going to be samurai based, it's much more likely the Shogun that's going to be a deal, NOT the "queen." (If there even is such an official role in a fuedal japanese island) Also, Momo. I have doubts of there even being a queen, perse.
You're most likely right.
Sounds like you were being obnoxious, rude and insulting other posters. So yes, "being a douchebag" fits.
That's the default infraction by the way, not a special custom one. No one was going out of their way to be vague to you.
The comment itself was about one poster, not several. I don't see how I was being obnoxious and rude. I was making a joke about the guy pretending he can see the future by calling him Oda. If that's called rude, insulting and obnoxious, I wonder what it is when one of your moderators calls people dumbasses on a regular basis a few months back.
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The main story aspects are introduced 50+ chapters after chapter 1. Unless you find Luffy rounding up Zoro, Nami and Ussop while introducing Buggy enough for 50 chapters, then fair enough. To me, that entire segment was bloated. I stopped following One Piece the first time around when I was watching the first episodes of One Piece. I restarted a year or two later since I heard such great things about the series. The beginning of the series has no real semblance of a deep plot other than a guy who enjoys sailing to sea and recruiting people. It wasn't until the Mihawk's introduction and the incredible Arlong Park arc that the series gained any real interest for me. I had to grind a bit to get there however.
Yea not like the Oda fleshing out the main characters matter in any way .
How on earth you seem to think that introducing the main characters , giving them identities , showing their personalities and character interactions with each other to be "not important" is completely beyond me . We are getting to KNOW the MAIN CHARACTERS OF THE ENTIRE STORY . That in itself is freaking important .
Also how is that supposed to be bad again ? Revealing the plot slowly by slowly are the basics 101 of any storytelling .
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giving luffy some character development after time skip.. i wouldve thought his brother dying would change him and make his personality more mature like knowing what their doing is not just a game and that if he doesnt pay attention one of his weaker crewmates could get killed; also since no one ever dies it sometimes lacks the scary feeling of a character you love that might die.
keeping frankys old style; he was one of my favorite chars pre timeskip and so badass now he seems like some lame toy and looks stupid
keeping namis old style why does she have to look like a generic anime girl now
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I haven't read the thread much so if there's any repeats, sorry.
- Not seeing the Fishman Dojo IN STORY. I frankly don't care how I see it now, I would've been excited if I saw it during Fishman Island but the momentum's vanished on this. Timing.
- Hyouzou should not have been the fishman Hachi was referring to. Imo Hyouzou should've been the same dude but with no title attached.
- This is just personal preference but the events not long before Fishman Island were these: Luffy's treasured crewmates were separated, Luffy was battered and scarred and stabbed and burned and poisoned BEYOND BELIEF throughout Impel Down and Marineford, followed by heavy emotional scarring. Then he and his entire crew train their asses off for 2 years. So with all this in mind: Could Fishman Island not have just been a fun, happy exploration arc of scenic wonder for 15-20 chapters for both the reader and the crew to relax? The crew could catch up with each other - but not too much to retain that mystery Oda loves - water funtimes all around. Woulda been appreciated. I get Oda's trying to make his points but I felt suffocated there, no breathing room story-wise.
- This has been repeated a lot but … I can't shake off this foggy vision that there was this orange-haired girl who liked money, this chef who knew what to do in desperate situations, this mascot character who has not shined enough (and I don't care about the titled chapter thing), this goofy skeleton... I remember these guys, I swear... Huh.
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No, who in there right mind would want to read 15-20 chapters of the crew doing nothing but relaxing sounds awful.
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No, who in there right mind would want to read 15-20 chapters of the crew doing nothing but relaxing sounds awful.
Relaxing + exploring + catching up. I'd have enjoyed it far more than what we got. So I guess according to you I'm not in my right mind. That's ok.
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Relaxing + exploring + catching up. I'd have enjoyed it far more than what we got. So I guess according to you I'm not in my right mind. That's ok.
Don't care if u are ok with it or not. I stand by what I said that sounds bloody awful and boring.
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Don't care if u are ok with it or not. I stand by what I said that sounds bloody awful and boring.
Go for it lol. Not trying to change your mind. Each individual person has their own preferences. This little thing quickly became circular and I hardly care to converse with someone who resorts to hyperbole this soon, so on that note… Cya.
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Go for it lol. Not trying to change your mind. Each individual person has their own preferences. This little thing quickly became circular and I hardly care to converse with someone who resorts to hyperbole this soon, so on that note… Cya.
Well you cared enough to reply to me to me twice so u must of cared a little bit no. But anyway like u said each to their own, Just thankful u never wrote FI arc is all I've go to say.
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It's clear as day that Oda is having trouble balancing crew being useful. . .and Law Almighty.
Also during PH, everyone HATES that scene where Buffalo and B5 are running away with Caesar, and Law is like "I'll solve it with my ubber instant transmission technique", and he has to be stoped and told "we know you alone can solve it just fine, but let Usopp and Nami do something cause they're kinda bored".
Actually, if you take Law away from those scenes and moments, they become much better. Chopper is forced to cure the children all by himself, and Usopp and Nami are the only ones capable of shooting down Buffalo and co. from a distance. Win-win.
To be honest. The scene was supposed to convey this:
Law entrusted Luffy and his crew to capture Caesar.
Luffy didn't keep his word. Blew Caesar away. He (and by association the crew) failed
Caesar got rescued.
So to remedy their mistake (in Law's eyes), he had to handle it himself even though Nami and Usopp wanted to step up. Luffy managed to convince Law to trust his crew with ease.
Nami and Usopp did their thing bla bla blaLaw acted realistically and rationally. Like you or I would do if we trusted someone to do something and they not only failed but chose to ignore the request entirely. -Luffy blowing away Caesar..
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This is more of a potential/future wasted opportunity if it ultimately doesn't come to pass…
But if we don't get a Strawhat member who is female, Battle-hardy (Zoro, Sanji, Franky or even Brook type), and not just another hourglass figure clone of Nami. I hope we get one more female crew member and I doubt he'll do Nami's face for her, but it would be fantastic if she had a different body type from the other women. So she also stands out esthetically. Honestly if Jimbei was a woman, this conversation would be done already, so I'm crossing my figures Ivakov runs across Jimbei again.
This. I'm sick of constantly seeing Nami/Robin carbon copies. Hopefully the next crew member (if they will in fact be female) gets a more unique design, and I agree that I wouldn't mind a female who is "battle-hardy". She doesn't have to be as strong as Luffy/Zoro/Sanji, but I would like her to be someone that enjoys battle or at least doesn't shy away from it in combination with having some other unique role for the crew.
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What do you guys have against hourglass figures ? Are you uncomfortable at the sight a strong independent woman with curves ? Check your male privilege !
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More seriously, I'd like a new crewmember that looked like Shaky, Bonney or Whitey Bay. More than the body of the character, I'm more interested in their style and attitude. It'd be great to have a girl add more OP (Original Pirate) vibe to the crew !
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What do you guys have against hourglass figures ? Are you uncomfortable at the sight a strong independent woman with curves ? Check your male privilege !
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More seriously, I'd like a new crewmember that looked like Shaky, Bonney or Whitey Bay. More than the body of the character, I'm more interested in their style and attitude. It'd be great to have a girl add more OP (Original Pirate) vibe to the crew !
You got me laughing at Kokoro but made me agree with the mention of looking like Shakky and Whitey Bay. Bonney doesn't look too different in face and body shape for me, she just has different fashion and make-up style.
Both Shakky & Whitey Bay have unique faces, actually I loved the Bay from the Manga (anime altered it some so she lost some of that beautiful uniqueness, and somehow made her look …bland... in some parts.) -
You got me laughing at Kokoro but made me agree with the mention of looking like Shakky and Whitey Bay. Bonney doesn't look too different in face and body shape for me, she just has different fashion and make-up style.
Both Shakky & Whitey Bay have unique faces, actually I loved the Bay from the Manga (anime altered it some so she lost some of that beautiful uniqueness, and somehow made her look …bland... in some parts.)Actually, I think Shakky is the one that looks the most like Nami and Robin (ie One Piece bimbos) if we only take their bodies into account.
But Bonney is younger and she definitely shows more skin. I really like her style, though, I wouldn't mind if a future Strawhat looked like that. She's got the same boots as Bartolomeo!
The thing about Shakky and Whitey Bay is that they look more mature and have their own styles.
Anyway, Whitey's the coolest for me, I've fallen in love with her at first sight
She's like the female Kidd or Bartolomeo, for me, as far as designs are concerned. I wish more major characters would dress like that, they really look fantastic. I'd also like to mention Doma.!
Dem old school pirate vibes :wub:
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Its cool for Luffy to take down his fair share of villains. But he has taken down almost half of the known shichibukai. He's pretty much making Fujitora more useless than he is already. Now he's gonna take down every Yonko? Thats shit tier writing. I' be happy if Kid's group beats BM in the long run. Also, Law finishing off Dofla would be for the better. Its his grudge. Luffy's basically butting into to everybody's business and being a hero when he constantly says he doesnt want to be one. lol. Oda really needs to stop with this recycled formula. Its getting old really fast.
Lol it's worked for a preeeetty long time…
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Nothing against the pretty hot Hourglass Figures for women. I personally love them. But I just want a better representative set of different female figures on the crew, like how we have on the male side. Nami and Robin more than fit that bill, but with the additions of Brook (skinny/tall), Franky (Beefy), Chopper (various) there is a more varied set of male body archetypes represented for our "heroes". And to put it bluntly, Plus-sized women can be strong fun, adventures, beautiful heroes too. Which, as I pointed out, the series does show, but it would be excellent to have someone like that with the main crew which best 99% of the attention. Let alone merchandise and character development. Even a tiny, chibi girl would be at least a new female archetype for the crew. And if it doesn't happen, won't be a mark against the series… I just think that it would be a "wasted opportunity" for One Piece. And i say this to support Gender Diversity and Equality.
What do you guys have against hourglass figures ? Are you uncomfortable at the sight a strong independent woman with curves ? Check your male privilege !
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More seriously, I'd like a new crewmember that looked like Shaky, Bonney or Whitey Bay. More than the body of the character, I'm more interested in their style and attitude. It'd be great to have a girl add more OP (Original Pirate) vibe to the crew !