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Well, this is actually a popular theory right now, that Law has always been a member of SWORD.
Randy from this forum is the author of the theory.
Interesting theory, thought I don't think Law is a SWORD member. I feel like he and Drake may have been working together but not that Law was ever a marine. Law may not even know about Cobby, but maybe Drake pointed Cobby to Rocky Port so he could ensure no civilians were harmed while Law did his thing.
Wonder how far back Xebec and Roger’s relationship went, given how their supposed last fight was 38 years ago. If Brook was familiar with Roger’s rookie days, when Roger was 25 at most when Brook effectively became isolated from the rest of the world for 50 years, then I also wonder if Brook is familiar with Xebec.
Wonder how far back Xebec and Roger’s relationship went, given how their supposed last fight was 38 years ago. If Brook was familiar with Roger’s rookie days, when Roger was 25 at most when Brook effectively became isolated from the rest of the world for 50 years, then I also wonder if Brook is familiar with Xebec.
That's a good point.
If Drake was in the navy the whole time, does that make his place in the Supernova 100 mil+ bounty club null and void?
Given that Kizaru and the CP-0 weren't well aware of if, its safe to claim that SWORD is a secret among secrets, so while his contact(definitely not Sengoku, cause we're not supposed to know that), might allow him to come back and suit up the white uniform, him as a pirate got that reward from people who don't really know he's just acting.
It might not be the greatest idea to allow him be a Marine and remove his reward, since everyone out there still believes he's a pirate, and that might lead into another infiltration easily.
I wonder if the light source inside Laboon is related to Fishman Island having light despite being otherwise in the deep dark ocean:
The light in Fishman Island comes from the Eve trees surrounding it. The trees are capable of channeling sunlight from the surface down to the roots, and that's what illuminates Fishman Island.
It seems unlikely that Laboon's innards would use the same method. I think Crocus probably installed artificial lighting somewhere.
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The light in Fishman Island comes from the Eve trees surrounding it. The trees are capable of channeling sunlight from the surface down to the roots, and that's what illuminates Fishman Island.
It seems unlikely that Laboon's innards would use the same method. I think Crocus probably installed artificial lighting somewhere.
Just thinking how Crocus fumbling around with Laboon’s innards in constructing an elaborate hub and somehow illuminating inner tummy with a light source with who know’s what is probably even weirder. Haha.
I made this in video form as well for those who are interested:
In the video, I used a timeline visual, which I have uploaded as an image here:
https://imgur.com/BsZW0vD
A Timeline of Roger’s Voyage – Everything We Know About the Pirate King
At the outset of the series, very little was known about Roger. Details about his voyage have gradually been revealed, though many mysteries yet remain. Information about Roger has often been delivered out of chronological order through flashbacks and exposition. By chronicling his adventure, we may gain some insight into the deeper mysteries of the One Piece world. At the very least, perhaps we can learn which questions to ask.
Roger was executed 24 years before the current point in the story of One Piece. In constructing this timeline, I’ll be using the current year in the story as a point of reference.
77 Years Ago (Age 0): Gol D. Roger is born in Logue Town; We know from the Data Books Roger was age 53 at the time of his execution, so he would be 77 if he were still alive. Logue Town is said to be the place where he was both born and died. The prologue and epilogue of Roger’s Adventure
Approx. 50+ Years Ago (Approx. Age 20+): Roger meets Rayleigh and together they embark on an adventure to turn the world upside down. Rayleigh was not only Roger’s first mate, but also his longest friend. We see this scene from Rayleigh’s perspective in chapter 603. Brook’s voyage began 52+ years before the current point in the story. He says there may have been a rookie Pirate named Roger at the time, so we can say this scene took place at least 52 years ago.
39 Years Ago (Age 38): Roger in his quest to reach the end of the Grand Line, arrived at Lodestar Island, the final island which can be reached by following the log pose where all paths converge. Roger believed this place to be the final island until, after arriving, he somehow learned of the existence of the Road Poneglyphs and the hidden final island (Laugh Tale). Following this revelation, Roger began his journey anew.
38 Years Ago (Age 39): The God Valley Incident. Roger united with Marine Vice Admiral Monkey D. Garp to take down the Rocks Pirates. Rocks formed on Pirate Island 40 years before the story of One Piece began and, for a time, were the most powerful pirate crew in the world. Xebec targeted a group of Celestial Dragons on God Valley in service to his ambition of becoming World King.
28 Years Ago (Age 49): Roger was afflicted with an incurable fatal illness and immediately began his final voyage through the Grand Line. The Roger Pirates recruited Crocus as the ship’s doctor to lessen Roger’s pain and prolong his life.
27 Years Ago (Age 50): The Roger Pirates clash with the Golden Lion Pirates lead by Shiki in the Edd War Sea. The Roger Pirates emerged victorious and Shiki’s fleet was broken apart.
26 Years Ago (Age 51): The Roger Pirates battle the Whitebeard Pirates. Roger tells Whitebeard about the Road Poneglyphs and the existence of the final island. Oden decides to join Roger in order to decipher the Poneglyphs.
In chapters 966 and 967 we see a montage of the Roger Pirates voyage through the Grand Line in pursuit of the Road Poneglyphs taking place over the following year. They voyage to Skypiea where Oden helps inscribe the message on the Golden Bell Robin later reads. They visit Water Seven and meet with Tom, who, at some earlier point, had constructed their ship the Oro Jackson. This scene takes place shortly before Franky joins Tom’s Workers as an apprentice shipwright.
Inuarushi and Nekomamushi tell Roger about the Road Poneglyph on Zou, to which he responds that he already has an engraving of the one in Linlin’s possession. From this, we know the Road Poneglyph on Whole Cake Island was the first discovered by the Roger Pirates. Roger was already in possession of the engraving when he met with Whitebeard and Oden.
After departing from Water Seven, the Roger Pirates voyage to many islands. Interestingly, we see them sail past Tequila Wolf, a massive bridge which has been under construction in the East Blue for 700 years. It would seem this destination was out of their way, so what compelled this visit?
The Roger Pirates next discover the Road Poneglyph located on Fishman Island, where Oden also reads the message left behind by Joy Boy. Roger and Oden hear the voice of the Sea Kings and Roger receives a prophecy from a young Sharly.
The third Road Poneglyph is found on Wano. Toki falls ill and disembarks, returning to Kuri with Momonosuke and Hiyori. Inuarushi and Nekomamushi also remain on Wano rejoining Oden’s retainers while Oden, continues on with Roger.
The last of the four Road Poneglyphs is found on Zou, guarded by the Mink Tribe. A young Pedro begs Roger for the opportunity to sail away wit him. Roger declines his request, but tells Pedro every person gets their time to shine.
With all four Road Poneglyphs, the Roger Pirates chart a course for the final island. Buggy falls ill and is forced to remain behind. Shanks chooses to stay with Buggy and thus is also not present for the discovery of One Piece.
25 Years Ago (Age 52): The Roger Pirates successfully reach the final island where they learn the true history of the world. Roger decides to name the island Laugh Tale in reference to the story of Joy Boy’s adventures, seemingly recorded on the Rio Poneglyph. We here learn that the Roger Pirates were the first people in 800 years to reach Laugh Tale and that the treasure One Piece was not left behind by Roger. We learn that One Piece was instead discovered on the final island, indicating it was likely left behind by Joy Boy many years before the story began at the end of the Void Century.
The world’s papers declare Roger the ‘King of the Pirates’ and name his treasure ‘One piece’.
In light of the revelation of the world’s true history, Roger chooses not to act. On Fishman Island, shortly before arriving on Laugh Tale, while meeting with King Neptune, Roger hears Sharly’s prophecy; 10 years to be born, 15 years to grow older, in reference to Shirahoshi, whose ability to control the Sea Kings will be paramount to reshaping the One Piece world.
When the Straw Hats met Rayleigh for the first time on Sabaody, he told Robin that the Roger Pirates were perhaps too early and we now understand the meaning of his words. Roger chose not to confront the world and shoulder the burden history. As a dying man, he didn’t have time to wait for the appointed day and thus chose to leave the task to a successor.
Roger chose to disband his crew one year prior to his execution. Roger shared a private conversation with Shanks, which brought Shanks to tears. We see Roger disembark his ship and leaves his crew behind in chapter 968 shortly before Oden returns to Wano. In ch 968, Oden says Roger shared a final exchange with Rayleigh. In ch 506, Rayleigh says Roger’s final words to him were “I won’t die, partner.”
25 Years Ago (Age 52): A short time later, Roger meets with Whitebeard one final time on an island covered in Cherry Blossoms. Roger informed Rayeligh of his intent to meet Whitebeard shortly before parting ways. During this meeting, Whitebeard declines Roger’s offer to learn the location of One Piece, but learns about the Will of D. Many years later, at the battle of Marineford, during his final moments, Whitebeard echoes Roger’s words, reinvigorating the Great Pirate era, by affirming the existence of One Piece. It seems Roger may have told Whitebeard a great deal about the world and its history as Whitebeard understands well the important role intended for those who carry the name D. and the degree to which discovery of the treasure will upturn the One Piece world.
24.5 Years Ago (Age 52.5): Roger meets Portgas D. Rouge. Shortly before parting ways, Roger told Rayleigh he believed a successor would discover One Piece at the appointed time and that his successor would likely be his yet to be born biological heir.
24.5 Years Ago (Age 52.5): Roger turns himself over to the World Government after having fathered a child with Rouge. He remains imprisoned for 6 months before his execution. During the Marineford arc, we see a flashback scene where Roger asks Garp to look after his child. A child should not pay the price for the sins of their parent.
24 Years Ago (Age 53): Wealth. Fame. Power. Gold Roger, the King of the Pirate had achieved it all. “My fortune is yours if you can find it, but you’ll have to search the whole world. I left everything I own in that place.” Roger is executed in Logue Town, but uses his final words to incite the great era of piracy, setting in motion the events of the story of One Piece.
So, now onto the lingering questions…
Oden’s flashback revealed many details about Roger’s voyage, but seems to have asked as many questions as it answered.
We know most of the important details of Roger’s second voyage through the Grand Line, during which he discovered the four Road Poneglyphs, and, with the help of Oden, conquered the Grand Line by discovering the Final Island and the treasure One Piece. Oden, Crocus, Rayleigh, Gaban, Shanks, Buggy, Toki, Inuarushi, and Nekomamushi are among those who sailed with Roger during this three year time period.
Yet, Roger’s first voyage remains almost entirely shrouded in mystery. We know Rayleigh was the first companion to join Roger, but not what spurred them to set out to sea. At the time Roger met Rayleigh, he was wearing the Straw Hat for which Luffy is now famous. This appearance of young Roger, sans iconic handlebar mustache, is the only time we have seen Roger during this phase in his life. The closest we have seen is the silhouetted appearance of Roger and Garp engaged in combat with the Rocks Pirates pictured in Chapter 957, which takes place over a decade later in the timeline. Roger at some later point imparted this hat to Shanks, who in turn entrusted it to Luffy for safe keeping. There exists in Imu’s vault in Marijoa a large straw hat identical in design. Where did Roger receive his hat? Was he aware of its seeming importance when he entrusted it to Shanks? Roger promises Rayleigh they will ‘turn the world upside down’, a phrase echoed by Whitebeard in reference to the impact of someone soon discovering One Piece. Was Roger somehow aware of the importance of discovering the treasure?
Appearing in the extra notes for the first volume of the series, there is a single panel with a text box describing Roger as history’s only “King of the Pirates”. Interestingly, no one was ever declared ‘Pirate King’ before Gol D. Roger successfully completed his voyage to Laugh Tale. Why was Roger seeking the end of the Grand Line? Roger was already searching for the end of the Grand Line during his first voyage which ended on Lodestar 39 years ago. Brook’s crew also set out for the end of the Grand Line 50 years prior to the start of One Piece, at which point in time Roger was only a rookie pirate. What spurred on pirates and adventurers in pursuit of this elusive destination prior to Roger’s dying words?
We have seen very little of the One Piece world in the era before Roger’s second voyage through the Grand Line.
To date, there are only 8 prominent scenes or flashbacks set in the pre-Roger era:
-Boodle and the other settlers building Orange Town after their previous home was overrun by Pirates 40 Years ago
-Noland and Calgara’s Skypiea flashback
-The Whole Cake Island flashback to Big Mom’s childhood
-Brook’s flashback to his adventures with the Rumba Pirates
-Dorry and Broggy Flashback scene where their battle on Little Garden begins
-Start of Oden’s Flashback on Wano before meeting Whitebeard
-The single panel in chapter 603 where Rayleigh reminisces about meeting Roger
-The brief glimpses of the God Valley Incident in chapter 957 which accompany Sengoku’s rendition of the tale
We first learn that Laugh Tale and the island which awaits the Straw Hats at the end of the Log Pose path are not one in the same from Inuarushi in chapter 820. It was on Lodestar that Roger learned about the Poneglyphs, the society from which they emerged, and Laugh Tale. Reaching Lodestar must also be quite the daunting task. Roger said he was the first to do so when he met Whitebeard during Oden’s flashback. The existence of the Road Poneglyphs is not widely known, which explains why no one has reached Laugh Tale in 800 years. But what makes following the log path to Lodestar such a herculean task and what arcane repository of knowledge informs those who survive the voyage?
Roger only returned to the Grand Line after contracting a fatal illness, but what prompted his decade long departure 39 years ago on Lodestar? I have posted another theory video about Shanks and the Mystery of God Valley in which I discuss one possible reason for Roger’s hiatus.
Throughout Roger’s second voyage, his ship houses a massive spotted egg which, at the time of his departure had not yet hatched. Where did Roger find it? Has it hatched yet? What will emerge when it does? Could whatever creature it contains be related to the prophesied Dawn of the New World?
When did Roger meet Rouge? Were they already familiar at the time Roger declared his belief that an unbornchild would someday inherit his will or did the two meet and strike up a fast romance in the six months between the disbanding of the Roger Pirates and Roger turning himself over to the World Government?
Dragon’s introduction in chapter 100 is accompanied by a quote from Roger which reads: “These things cannot be stopped. An inherited strength of will. One’s dreams. The ebb and flow of the Ages. As long as people hunger for freedom, these things will exist.” When were these words spoken to have made such a lasting impression on Luffy’s father? During his execution? The God Valley Incident? I imagine we will someday learn the origin of this quote.
Though we have learned a lot about Roger as the series has progressed, much of his life remains unexplored. His first voyage lasted more than decade and there is a ten year hiatus between he God Valley Incident and Roger’s second voyage. These parts of Roger’s life may yet be explored in future, shedding light on the deepest mysteries of the One Piece world.
Roger is such a fascinating character. I know many people feel Oden's flashback has already revealed all the relevant information about him, but I still think there are a ton of questions we need to have answered. This list is far from comprehensive, but it's everything I could think of at the moment.
Apparently Oda has cried and bursted in tears as he tried to draw many of the manga’s most tragic scenes, so it makes me wonder how often he has giggled and bursted out laughing and tried not swerve away his drawing tools as he was drawing all these goofy faces. Just to think that a grown ass man had to sit at his desk, imagine how these faces would fit in the manga, and probably redraw them many times in his attempts to get them just as right as he wanted to is hilarious in of itself.
Gomu gomu no baka is just the best 
My personal favorite is Buggy watching his Muggy Ball being returned to his direction. May or may not have made this face myself in real life.
Just as a trivia, I point out to you two level 6 guys who bear some vague resemblance to Bullet and World
(from chapter 540)
My personal favorite is Buggy watching his Muggy Ball being returned to his direction. May or may not have made this face myself in real life.
Reminded me of Wapol’s shocked face as well.
I forget which chapter he said it, but I recall Brook at Thriller Bark as describing himself as having “such a lonely life,” which makes me wonder if he was talking about his childhood as well.
Given the sheer number of Smile Fruits that have given their users absurd body horror style mutations such as your face being a chickens rear end I wish to bring up the following Notion.
Queen came up with the idea of feeding recruits Smile Fruits for no other reason than it amuses him to turn people into abominations whose quality of life has got to be very low.
Kaidou wants to have his beasts.
Queen might be the one who show him the path, knowing his science interest and so maybe knowledge of Cesear.
Unrevealed_Loki/Rocks/Im-san_
IslandElbaf/Raftel/GodValley
UnresolvedWeevil´s plan/Explaining DFs/Deal with Kuma-Bonney´s past/Joy-Boy/Zunisha´s story/Rocks flashback/Void Century/Rioponeglyph/Uranus/the D.clan
DFWind/Metal/Acid/Liquid/Time-Stop
Out of curiosity, I checked the women in One Piece with the highest known bounties. There were a lot less listed than I had thought:
1. Charlotte Linlin - 4.3 billion
2. Charlotte Smoothie - 932 million
3. Jewelry Bonney - 140 million
4. Nico Robin - 130 million
5. Boa Hancock - 80 million
6. Nico Olvia - 79 million
7. Nami - 66 million
8. Boa Marigold - 40 million
9. Boa Sandersonia - 40 million
10. Zala - 35 million
11. Marianne - 29 million
12. Charlotte Lola - 24 million
13. Drophy - 14 million
14. Curly Dadan - 7.8 million
15. Mikita - 7.5 million
16. Alvida - 5 million
Lola had a bounty?? LOL Yeah, OP is still a good (bad) old fashioned shonen series. I think Sanji is Oda's way of portraying exactly that. He knows that being sexist/misogynist is wrong, but it's just ingrained in him. It's a 23 year-old series, constantly written by the same person. We can't expect it to get much better than having Big Mom already.
Lola had a bounty?? LOL
Well from what I understood, Oda loves strong women, so somehow I don’t get the feeling he’s being sexist against them, even on the basis of Japanese shonen.
Apparently, after all this time, Brook has never had a chapter with his name in it, at least according to the English translations I saw, which surprised me.
I was thinking a little about Fish-Man Island and how some fans didn't really like the reveal that Hody hated humans despite them having done nothing to him. However, if you think about it, Arlong was almost entirely the same way. The worst thing that happened to him was his captain Tiger being betrayed and killed by humans, which was certainly traumatic, but the thing was that he despised humans well before that, and the main result of Tiger's death on him was the destruction of the boundaries he had (which were mainly there due to Tiger having to constantly verbally keep him in check). His hatred of humans stemmed from his upbringing in the Fish-Man District and the propaganda he heard there, which was exactly how Hody came to hate humans as well.
Not saying this in an attempt to justify Hody's overall character or criticize Arlong's, just an interesting connection that came to my mind.
Out of curiosity, I checked the women in One Piece with the highest known bounties. There were a lot less listed than I had thought:
1. Charlotte Linlin - 4.3 billion
2. Charlotte Smoothie - 932 million
3. Jewelry Bonney - 140 million
4. Nico Robin - 130 million
5. Boa Hancock - 80 million
6. Nico Olvia - 79 million
7. Nami - 66 million
8. Boa Marigold - 40 million
9. Boa Sandersonia - 40 million
10. Zala - 35 million
11. Marianne - 29 million
12. Charlotte Lola - 24 million
13. Drophy - 14 million
14. Curly Dadan - 7.8 million
15. Mikita - 7.5 million
16. Alvida - 5 million
Well, there's also Catarina Devon, we just don't know her amount yet, but it should be at least 400 million +
The majority of pirate crews don't have female subordinates. What's interesting is that these few women have high chances of being captains (even Dandan is the leader of the mountain bandits).
What the heck is Yamato? I stopped reading around 30 chapters ago and read all the chapters I didn't in one go last night. I don't understand this Yamato? Isnt she TTOOOOO out of nowhere? Oda usually doesn't do that kind of writing.. what's up with that? Were she hinted at before at all?
Hidden:
This phony honor code that puts you on your throne, a double standard you invoke when you want~
Nah Yams is great. He was just what this arc needed.
Nah Yams is great. He was just what this arc needed.
Anyway to elaborate more on that? You dont think Yamato is a little too underbuilt and sudden as a character AND a potential strawhat?
Not really. I enjoy it when a new character makes a big splash. Him coming from nowhere doesn't bother me as long as he is a fun addition and continutes to get this type of laser focus he is currently getting. And as a concept Kaido having a child doesn't seem like that big of an asspull.
Well, there's also Catarina Devon, we just don't know her amount yet, but it should be at least 400 million +
Big Mom’s daughters probably have some of the highest bounties belonging to women. There’s also Whitey Bay and Ginrummy.
Do you guys think Oda is gonna give us a full backstory on why Luffy didn't know his dad, who his mom is, what happened did she die and what drove Dragon to join the revolutionary army before he ends the series, do you think Luffy will meet Dragon face to face.
Do you guys think Oda is gonna give us a full backstory on why Luffy didn't know his dad, who his mom is, what happened did she die and what drove Dragon to join the revolutionary army before he ends the series, do you think Luffy will meet Dragon face to face.
There is, apperently, a Revolutionary-centered arc in the future, for all of that content that needs to be adressed. Probably mixed with Kuma's story and Vegapunk. Don't necessarily see a Dragon flashback in the series, but maybe he'll explain everything in the present and talk about how he grew up, became a revolutionary, abandoned his kid.
I just had a thought: Wasn't Oden like at least 10 feet tall? Enma should be massive in comparison for Zoro to use.
I just had a thought: Wasn't Oden like at least 10 feet tall? Enma should be massive in comparison for Zoro to use.
It must have shrunk in the wash.
Looking back, I think Luffy being as willing to quickly believe that Kanjuro was the traitor can definitely give an idea as to what kind of relationship Luffy had with him. I suspect that if he had been told that Kinemon, Inu, Neko, or one of the others had been the traitor, then he probably would have defended them similar to how he defended Robin, despite not really having known them for too long. It might also go to show that Luffy isn’t as gullible as some people might think.
@Zik:
Yes. Back during the Kozuki Oden flashbacks and when he sacrificed himself.
Yamato was there to witness it. Basically a Roger figure the way a couple characters were at his execution.
I don't really consider that to be a hint. We had no reason to believe Kaido had a child or that blocked off person was anyone special.
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@Zik:
I didn't say it was a hint to Kaido's child.
It was a hint to Yamato.
More of a foreshadowing that this person was there all along.
I'm trying to understand it as foreshadowing. I think it only works as that after reading chapter 983, and only for the one chapter that we don't know Yamato's motivation and history. After reading 983 at least one person in the fandom went back, matched the kimonos, and figured that Yamato was the person who saw the guy burn from oil. Another person noted the similarities in the chains worn by Yamato in the present and Oden in the past. And though the chains are more of a coincidental allusion the coincidence is ostensibly because Yamato chooses to live like Oden, so eh? I guess my point is, it seems more like an easter egg than foreshadowing because it's impossible to take Yamato's 971 appearance as a hint or foreshadowing until we see Yamato in chapter 983 for the first time. Maybe it still can be considered foreshadowing given chapter 983, but someone more educated on it would have to enlighten me.
Just realized that they are drawn similarly to emphasize the moon being blocked out. First one is before they go to meet Neko and a couple chapters before Inu drops the hint.
Just realized why Tama giving rice to Luffy seemed so familiar.
Despite a lot of people complaining about Big Mom, I think at the end of this arc she will be the closest Yonkou to getting the title of Pirate Queen.
She has her own Road Poneglyph.
Pekoms is a mink so I think at some point he will have made a copy of the one on Zou for her.
She is in Kaido’s territory - this is the best opportunity for her to seize the one on Onigashima
Then we have the unknown one. We have the elbaf hype been building in the background for a long time. Big mom wanted a political marriage to elbaf. Perhaps this is because she knows the Poneglyph is with the Elbaf royal family.
Despite her unpredictability she could actually be one of the most viable contenders for the title.
Despite a lot of people complaining about Big Mom, I think at the end of this arc she will be the closest Yonkou to getting the title of Pirate Queen.
She has her own Road Poneglyph.
Pekoms is a mink so I think at some point he will have made a copy of the one on Zou for her.
She is in Kaido’s territory - this is the best opportunity for her to seize the one on OnigashimaThen we have the unknown one. We have the elbaf hype been building in the background for a long time. Big mom wanted a political marriage to elbaf. Perhaps this is because she knows the Poneglyph is with the Elbaf royal family.
Despite her unpredictability she could actually be one of the most viable contenders for the title.
She specifically wanted a Giant marrying into her family because it would give her the strongest army in the world.
She specifically wanted a Giant marrying into her family because it would give her the strongest army in the world.
But you could easily retcon that to fit. we’ve seen giants pride and commitment to battle over little things for prolonged periods. Maybe her marriage would get her hold of an army on one side of a warring giant faction then she would be able to end a war on elbaf and seize the Poneglyph as a result.
Just seems almost too much of a coincidence that Big Mom has a mink who’s been around Zou where there’s a Road Poneglyph, has one in Totland, and is now on Onigashima where Kaido’s one is.
Unpopular notion: With the understanding that Usopp mishandled how he went about defending the Merry, in spite of it being living nakama, and that the trust with each other’s lives is valuable for keeping crews together and such, I think that Zoro was a tad bit too assuming, even considering that Zoro tends to be a bit extreme in general, in regards to what kind of person he felt Usopp was turning into.
Zoro seemed to speak of Usopp as if he would be guaranteed to turn into someone who’d walk all over Luffy and treat his and the crew’s feelings as unimportant, as if Usopp would just leave and enter the crew whenever he wants regardless of how much that would massively affect the entire crew. I felt it would have made more sense if Zoro would have given his opinion just after Luffy’s fight with Usopp as opposed to after the Merry’s Viking funeral, because by the time of that funeral, I’m certain it was understood even by Usopp at that moment that that wasn’t abandoning nakama, something which he had previously assumed out of feeling useless and being insecure, but that it was instead letting the Merry go to Rest In Peace.
And I know Usopp was practicing making “returning to the crew” speeches when he returned to Water 7 as if the past doesn’t matter, when it does if it’s at least at the expense of the future, but somehow I think that he would have changed his mind on that as well regardless. In my opinion, I get the feeling that if Zoro wasn’t there, and Luffy had approached him instead, either Usopp would have changed his mind and would have been more apologetic after looking at Luffy right in the eyes, or would have realized at least by Thriller Bark that he can’t just screw around with peoples’ lives and that it’s not just his feelings and life that matters. I’m not painting Zoro as the bad guy here, or anyone as the bad guy for that matter, but me not simply wanting to boil it down to “Usopp says sorry, so everything is alright now.” which is how some people seem to simplify it, and considering how complicated I felt Usopp’s insecurities and feelings were in the first place. I suppose I personally would have at least been willing to see what Usopp would have ultimately ended up saying, had Luffy approached him first, after coming to terms with Merry’s death.
I don't see Zoro's statement as just a slippery slope for Usopp.
It was also about example. Things like that can spread like a virus. Next, Robin, Chopper, or Nami can leave and come back as they please if they come to a point where they get into a massive dispute like that.
Then, we have to consider how seriously Zoro takes all of this. The pain he takes and the route of a pirate that he uses as a vehicle because he believes in Luffy and just as much himself.
It's multiple things. How seriously he takes it, being mindful of how the crew can fall apart, Usopp's slippery slope and the standard being set by the Captain.
Zoro experiencing his loss to Mihawk showed him that there is a lot of difficulty ahead and he is just a fish in this giant sea. This is more understanding of how letting Usopp back in so easily can cause a trickle effect for external and internal issues. There's already an impossible road ahead, why let this into the ship.
It's not really about how Usopp would respond. It's about what Luffy and others are willing to accept after how intense the situation was. While Zoro has shown that he can be dense, he is very mindful of the weaknesses of the crew and what can be exploited.
I don't see Zoro's statement as just a slippery slope for Usopp.
It was also about example. Things like that can spread like a virus. Next, Robin, Chopper, or Nami can leave and come back as they please if they come to a point where they get into a massive dispute like that.
Then, we have to consider how seriously Zoro takes all of this. The pain he takes and the route of a pirate that he uses as a vehicle because he believes in Luffy and just as much himself.
It's multiple things. How seriously he takes it, being mindful of how the crew can fall apart, Usopp's slippery slope and the standard being set by the Captain.
Zoro experiencing his loss to Mihawk showed him that there is a lot of difficulty ahead and he is just a fish in this giant sea. This is more understanding of how letting Usopp back in so easily can cause a trickle effect for external and internal issues. There's already an impossible road ahead, why let this into the ship.
It's not really about how Usopp would respond. It's about what Luffy and others are willing to accept after how intense the situation was. While Zoro has shown that he can be dense, he is very mindful of the weaknesses of the crew and what can be exploited.
I’m ultimately fine what Zoro said to Luffy and don’t have big problems with it or anything like that, but I guess what I want to ultimately say myself is that I still would have been willing to see how the conversation would have played out if Luffy had personally approached Usopp right to his face, again, with the understanding the possibility of Usopp monstrously not recognizing Luffy as a captain worthy of respect.
Though still, if the situation is sensitive to the point that big examples should be set and behavior like that can spread like a virus, then I could also see the route taken of Zoro further questioning Usopp in taking it up another notch since he basically took it up a notch previously in demanding everyone respects Luffy’s Captain status, and how taking this lightly so easily can cause a trickle effect and provide more basis as to why further questioning could be warranted, since it shouldn’t just stop at “he said sorry, so everything’s fine now,” right, in light of seeing others say that Usopp should have never been let back onto the crew despite him saying sorry and what Luffy and Zoro said.
Perhaps I’m more inclined to say this in light of how I’ve seen Luffy handle other sensitive situations without Zoro’s input, but again, I was still willing to believe Luffy wouldn’t let himself get so easily exploited at the end of the day despite what he says on the surface.
But really though, I guess neither of us can be more “objectively” right than the other since Luffy didn’t approach Usopp on his own and Zoro didn’t seem to further reemphasize how Usopp shouldn’t be so readily accepted back in after they left Water 7, as evidently he was satisfied with Usopp just lowering his head to the ground, shedding some tears, and yelling out sorry and nothing more beyond that, in spite of also previously emphasizing how it’s extremely important that the crew doesn’t fall apart, so fair enough then I suppose.
I’m ultimately fine what Zoro said to Luffy and don’t have big problems with it or anything like that, but I guess what I want to ultimately say myself is that I still would have been willing to see how the conversation would have played out if Luffy had personally approached Usopp right to his face, again, with the understanding the possibility of Usopp monstrously not recognizing Luffy as a captain worthy of respect.
Though still, if the situation is sensitive to the point that big examples should be set and behavior like that can spread like a virus, then I could also see the route taken of Zoro further questioning Usopp in taking it up another notch since he basically took it up a notch previously in demanding everyone respects Luffy’s Captain status, and how taking this lightly so easily can cause a trickle effect and provide more basis as to why further questioning could be warranted, since it shouldn’t just stop at “he said sorry, so everything’s fine now,” right, in light of seeing others say that Usopp should have never been let back onto the crew despite him saying sorry and what Luffy and Zoro said.
Perhaps I’m more inclined to say this in light of how I’ve seen Luffy handle other sensitive situations without Zoro’s input, but again, I was still willing to believe Luffy wouldn’t let himself get so easily exploited at the end of the day despite what he says on the surface.
But really though, I guess neither of us can be more “objectively” right than the other since Luffy didn’t approach Usopp on his own and Zoro didn’t seem to further reemphasize how Usopp shouldn’t be so readily accepted back in after they left Water 7, as evidently he was satisfied with Usopp just lowering his head to the ground, shedding some tears, and yelling out sorry and nothing more beyond that, in spite of also previously emphasizing how it’s extremely important that the crew doesn’t fall apart, so fair enough then I suppose.
I agree that Zoro should have been more trusting of Luffy to handle it. You definitely have a point there.
I agree that Zoro should have been more trusting of Luffy to handle it. You definitely have a point there.
I think it’s not just necessarily that he wasn’t trusting enough either, as he gave good points for saying what he said in wanting Luffy to make the right decisions, but that I personally see Luffy as someone worth trusting until he does actions which prove to me that he’s not deserving of it, and not just assume like he’ll be guaranteed to do irresponsible actions in sensitive situations based on what he’s like in the past and in the moment.
And that with Zoro saying he wouldn’t let any of them go to him, talking as if Luffy would just kiss Usopp’s butt no matter what, and refusing Nami’s suggestion of telling Usopp all this if he had come back earlier can give the impression, at least in my opinionated and personal point of view, that Zoro was sort of looking like he was making orders on Luffy’s behalf even though he also said that Luffy ranks above him.
And again, this isn’t me wanting the crew to fall apart because of Usopp’s destructive attitude in not recognizing Luffy as captain, and that I’m not saying duel outcomes don’t matter either, but that I find no fault in simply approaching others who might not even deserve being approached in the first place, with the full understanding of what happened in the past and wanting what’s best for the entire crew.
Unpopular notion: With the understanding that Usopp mishandled how he went about defending the Merry, in spite of it being living nakama, and that the trust with each other’s lives is valuable for keeping crews together and such, I think that Zoro was a tad bit too assuming, even considering that Zoro tends to be a bit extreme in general, in regards to what kind of person he felt Usopp was turning into.
Zoro seemed to speak of Usopp as if he would be guaranteed to turn into someone who’d walk all over Luffy and treat his and the crew’s feelings as unimportant, as if Usopp would just leave and enter the crew whenever he wants regardless of how much that would massively affect the entire crew. I felt it would have made more sense if Zoro would have given his opinion just after Luffy’s fight with Usopp as opposed to after the Merry’s Viking funeral, because by the time of that funeral, I’m certain it was understood even by Usopp at that moment that that wasn’t abandoning nakama, something which he had previously assumed out of feeling useless and being insecure, but that it was instead letting the Merry go to Rest In Peace.
And I know Usopp was practicing making “returning to the crew” speeches when he returned to Water 7 as if the past doesn’t matter, when it does if it’s at least at the expense of the future, but somehow I think that he would have changed his mind on that as well regardless. In my opinion, I get the feeling that if Zoro wasn’t there, and Luffy had approached him instead, either Usopp would have changed his mind and would have been more apologetic after looking at Luffy right in the eyes, or would have realized at least by Thriller Bark that he can’t just screw around with peoples’ lives and that it’s not just his feelings and life that matters. I’m not painting Zoro as the bad guy here, or anyone as the bad guy for that matter, but me not simply wanting to boil it down to “Usopp says sorry, so everything is alright now.” which is how some people seem to simplify it, and considering how complicated I felt Usopp’s insecurities and feelings were in the first place. I suppose I personally would have at least been willing to see what Usopp would have ultimately ended up saying, had Luffy approached him first, after coming to terms with Merry’s death.
Personally I always hated the whole Zoro tells Luffy how to treat his crew and forces him to ask an apology from Usopp. And I find it very bs that Zror is preaching about the respect for hierarchy by deciding for Luffy how he should act. He doesnt just suggest. He takes a stand where either Luffy does what he wants or he walks.
And to me there's nothing satisfying or genuine about the apology if it has to be forced out from fear of abandonment.
I also felt Luffy handled giving the news to Usopp like shit considering he himself got into a fight with the ship repairman when he heard the news. so the whole Usopp needs to come back begging never felt right to me. It was an injection of respect of chain of command of a group of friends I didnt need and straight up hated.
That is the pith of it all and a more simpler way to digest it. They are friends and because Usopp saw himself in Merry (lacking in a sense for the journey), he felt he was being slighted as well. His decision was to take it to an extreme and put that friendship in jeopardy.
If your friend took it that far, then decided to come back to you, would you be as open and accepting as Luffy was prepared to be? That was Zoro's point. Putting the friendship on the line shouldn't be taken lightly if he's going to return. Usopp should be considerate and reflect on what he did. When he returns, he should be able to easily show that he's sorry if he really did reflect on what he did. What Luffy was willing to accept was worthy of solicitude in this instance.
All the things he did to help the crew and Robin do not negate that he was willing to end the friendship like that. Luffy didn't create that wager. It was Usopp.
A relationship is 50/50. If you're letting someone that doesn't care for you as much as you care for them, walk all over you, then it's not a friendship. Giving your energy to someone that doesn't return the same is unhealthy. Can't afford to do that on such a turbulent sea.
