He is causing trouble THEM. Not the kingdom. On what charges should he be deposed, as far as the Kingdom is concerned?
–- Update From New Post Merge ---
Lol, where do I begin?
And this must be adreced too:
"It still pisses me off that she is writing all of these people off solely based on the fact that they belong to the WG. Disregarding anything else, how in the hell is goverment to deal with the corruption, if you don't tell them about it? Are they, as Fujitora eloquently asked, Gods? "
The problem here is that the WG is indeed acting as if they were Gods. They are imposing their power by force, and then it comes along promises of being in a truly peaceful world. And that is a lie. A conscious lie. Even if those individual marines you love so much, who pick up their suits and are willing to die for the peace and safety of innocent people, they are being manipulated by an authoritarian lie. Viola is aware of the lie. Viola knows that this same sistem talks about peace while at the same time hypocritically allows and incentivates corruption and war (both terrorism and national terrorism, from needing pirates for "the balance of the world" to hell-of-a-bad-guys as marines and shichibukais), and she finds and suffers this shit at home. When finally a freaking Admiral comes, he does NOTHING but help their opressor. Hell, I would even support crazy maniacs and assassins like Kidd or Brownbeard (the First, when he was still a godly conqueror) if they were to dispose of master of puppets or the fucked up WG.
And yes, I am aware that Fujitora doesn't agree. And he wants to change all that. But he is choosing the Maquiavel's path. And no, the end doesn't justify the means. Not when you are on the side of the collateral victims of those means.
PD: You are GOOD at making rational arguments, but your logic (your _a priori_s) is way too biased, and, just as biased people tend to do, you accuse people of being biased. I don't usually write on these forums, but I do enjoy a lot when I can read large and interesting discussions. And you are needed, as you provide a different POV. But, please, try not to be so tiresomely obtuse. You are becoming more of a gag-character (just as the mugiwaras since TS) than a person trying to debate.
Edit: hell I don't even know how to post properly on a forum xD
Chapter 750: "The State of War"
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Or maybe they didn't because no complaints were made?
Come on. Citizens themselfs are saying what a great guy Doffy is. They protested when he resigned. Presumably, he didn't do anything openly evil since joining Shichibukai. Keeping survailance on him would be a paranoia, and WG evidently did that anyway.
Or did you forgot Goverment Agents among the toys, along with the marines?
Doesnt change the fact that he must have done some horrible stuff to become a warlord in the first place. The government should always be aware he could do horrible things again, they just turn a blind eye because that is part of their agreement. Allowing him to come to power in the first place should have been considered problematic, especially for a pirate considered as manipulative as Doflamingo.
But, again, why should Viola care about the Marines or the world government? From her perspective they put the country in this position in the first place by giving Doflamingo a high status, despite being a "once dangerous" man. Perhaps they might have taken action in Dressrossa earlier had it not been for Sugar, but it doesnt change the fact that giving him amnesty allowed him to do all this in the first place.
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By the way, Riku's comment about pirates is quite odd. Didn't he give his daughter's hand to a murderer ?
Kyros saved her when she was being kidnapped by pirates. So the pirate hate is still there. It's just the usual setup for the stereotypical argument in the OP world that all pirates are bad. Then someone defends them and the SHs show them that there are good pirates in the world.
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It's a circular logic. He is confirming Viola's opinion because he does not act, he does not act because Viola and the rest of the kingdom have that opinion.
That circle needs to be broken, and it ain't Fuji that needs to be doing the breaking.
Don't worry Darth, Sabo will break the circle for you :ninja:
I'm asking for open proofs of malevolence on his part since joining Shichibukai. Tangible. One that WG would know about, not you as a reader.
I'm pretty sure when Doflamingo was first introduced there was some comment about his pirate business, so the WG and Marines were quite aware he was doing pirate-ey stuffs!!!
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I know, but this line of thinking is flawed. But I need to walk my dog, so I will elaborate in a minute.
That comment was towards dear mister Funk. And his very silly argument.
Here's a reminder: we had a similar situation in the past when Doula Mongo suddenly arrived under the pretense of a savior backed up by the WG. Now, Dressrosa is in an even bigger chaotic situation compared to 10 years ago. From an in-universe perspective, the Dressrosa population's faith in the WG has just sunk to the bottom.
As you said, there might be flaws here and there in that perspective, but I believe it's perfectly natural for the in-universe Dressrosa population.
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The same daughter that was kidnapped by pirates?
Since you didn't pecise the chapter I will have to look for it starting from chapter 700. Yahahahaha! Yeah, I like this arc.
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I actually have friends among law enforcers, so it might be that this line of thinking simply strikes a personal note in me. We are all shaped by our experiences, after all.
I'm sure many of us do, so while we can insist these men/women are good, surely if they were ordered to bring you in by their officer in charge (no matter who the officer is) they would do it or risk being discharged. Now, what would make Bastille or Maynard stand out as characters would be if they stood up against Fujitora's decision and got discharged.
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Or maybe they didn't because no complaints were made?
Come on. Citizens themselfs are saying what a great guy Doffy is. They protested when he resigned. Presumably, he didn't do anything openly evil since joining Shichibukai. Keeping survailance on him would be a paranoia, and WG evidently did that anyway.
Or did you forgot Goverment Agents among the toys, along with the marines?
Fujitora clearly recognizes the anguish of the people currently. Viola's comments this chapter mirrors what Fujitora said that one time.
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Since you didn't pecise the chapter I will have to look for it starting from chapter 700. Yahahahaha! Yeah, I like this arc.
No need. Chapter 742.
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i really hope Luffy and Law don't team up for this Doffy fight
I don't think they will, but Luffy DID bring Law along and here comes fucking Rebecca with that key…Why is that? Don't you wanna see Law beaten again?
Also, if Dofla controls Law, we might have LUFFY smacking Law down! That's like, double the fun!
-Luffy, he's controling my body but don't worry about me, get rid of me and the-DON'T SAY ANOTHER WORD, ON TO IT! proceeds to Thor Grizzly Gatling Magnum Gun Law's ass.
Where is Koala in all of this?
Great chapter.
We're still missing the whereabouts of : Burgess, The Funk Brothers, Bellamy, Jean Ango, Gatz , and minor Block D fighters like Meadows.
Acilia should also appear sooner or later. She was supposed to be Rebecca's only ally in the Colosseum, so at least give her the chance to re-appear amidst the chaos, Oda?
I also wonder if Oda will use this chance to let us see "something", even if it's just a one panel attack, by Damask and Mummy. . .and Meadows. And I also wonder, seeing how the Colosseum guys are about to clash with 5 family officers (and I guess they'll negate each other), if he'll give Robin a chance against, let's say, the Funk Bros. They seem pretty shady, and I thought they also made a happy face when they saw Usopp's bounty, like Dagama (who had to be beaten some sense by King Punch). They've been out from the Colosseum Friends Club, so. . .maybe they'll try something against Usopp and Robin and grab the bounty? I honestly could stand behind that fight. Guys that can take out 100M bounty pirates are a worthy opponent for Robin.
Of course, the desired fight would be against an officer (against Trébol would be an orgasm, though he's probably way out of her league), but beggars can't be choosers. . .
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Don't worry Darth, Sabo will break the circle for you :ninja:
Don't say that, he'd have a complete meltdown if it were to happen! :ninja:
I think the best thing to happen would be for them to fight it out, without a clear winner. Maybe the fight being stopped once Luffy defeats Doffy. As it is now I think it is too early for either of them to be utterly defeated, after all they were just introduced.
I would also like to say that I want to see Burgess! Where the hell is this guy, surely he has a role to play before the arc ends?
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Forgive me if this has already been answered, but do we even have confirmation if Doflamingo's Birdcage will end when he's knocked out? I don't recall Mr. 3's wax ever disappearing along those lines. Just like I would assume any ice Kuzan makes would remain even if he's knocked out.
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Forgive me if this has already been answered, but do we even have confirmation if Doflamingo's Birdcage will end when he's knocked out? I don't recall Mr. 3's wax ever disappearing along those lines. Just like I would assume any ice Kuzan makes would remain even if he's knocked out.
There's no confirmation but when he gets beaten it'll disappear. Otherwise nobody will be able to leave when the arc is over.
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Why would you leave anyway ?
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Damn, keeping conversation with several people at once sure is demanding…
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Why would you leave anyway ?
This. This made me giggle. And I have a beard.
But seriously, if it doesn't, wouldn't it mean that Fujitora's plan is actually the more practical? I mean if it was as simple as cutting the strings I feel like he would've attempted that by now. (Mind, he may not be enough of a straight up "swordsman" to cut them, but I'd find that a little silly.)
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While, I was expecting a Law Dolflamingo Corazon flashback. I gotta say, I'm not disappointed in this chapter, sure it was a build up chapter and I'm looking forward to a Sabo vs Fujitora fight I'm not surprised that Viola is trusting the Strawhats to be Dressrosa's only hope. I liked to see that the people after Kyros are not entirely going after him because of his bounty, but to help stop this madness that is happening on Dressorosa. I am getting so freaking tired of a woman gushing over Senior Pink in the background almost every time he does something. I'm looking forward to a Mr Pink vs Franky Fight.
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Sengoku had a grasp on the situation pretty quickly. From what we've learned of the World Gov't, they are just as informed, if not more informed than the Fleet Admiral the majority of the time.
Actually, I thought Tsuru was the one to notice… but knowledge of the skill confirms nothing, I'm afraid.
But they knew he was a pirate previously, surely a 300,000,000 + pirate taking over a nation would've warranted an extensive investigation? Unless of course, you're a Shichibukai, then you get a pass, which just further justifies Viola's train of thought.
As I said before, goverment agents and marines among toys.
Or do you assume they found nothing of note? Even they are turned, even if they managed to report, their report vanishes.
Useful skill she has, that Sugar.
Doflamingo's made it more than apparent that the World Gov't is at his beck and call. Fujitora knows this.
Hmm… but that does not make him untouchable. He, in fact, completly cut off his contact with the WG. Fujitora could've killed him and what exactly could WG do to question him? He makes the story up, and his subordinates were shown to be eager to deal with him, so they would vouch for him. Sakazuki would be on his side, because that's one more pirate dead.
It constitutes a trial. Not a back alley execution. Akainu was more than capable of apprehending said marine without murdering him.
Never said he was the pinnacle of goodnes, you know? And if we consider that marines appear to be at least partialy based on 16/17/18 century navy, we could excuse it as historical accuracy.
People were less moral once. Just the way it is.
I highly doubt either Rebecca or Violet valued being kept hostage/tormented mentally/physically/emotionally over being killed, especially when they thought the rest of their family was dead and they knew the man ruling that everyone loved, was responsible.
But the principle still stands. Or, to use better example, Alabasta civil war. If what Violet argues would stand, it would be okay for the rebels and king's man to kill each other… because that's what they wanted at the time.
(For the record, I'm not trying to be antagonistic, I do highly enjoy debating these points with you. )
Nah, I enjoy those as well. The only guy here I consider truly antagonistic towards me would mister Funk.
–- Update From New Post Merge ---
This. This made me giggle. And I have a beard.
But seriously, if it doesn't, wouldn't it mean that Fujitora's plan is actually the more practical? I mean if it was as simple as cutting the strings I feel like he would've attempted that by now. (Mind, he may not be enough of a straight up "swordsman" to cut them, but I'd find that a little silly.)
Hmm… shouldn't Kyros cutting a string clone stand as a proof that they can be cut? I'm pretty sure Fuji is up to task...
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You're operating under the assumption that the World Gov't knew nothing of Doflamingo's past actions. They knew he was a pirate with a HIGH bounty, and outside of us as readers it seems that higher ranking Marine Officers were perfectly aware that Doflamingo has an ability to manipulate people, if not a full understanding of his Devil Fruit. The fact that they let him takeover a country, even with his dubious background, is a fair point for Viola/Violet to not trust the World Gov't, and by extension their enforcers.
that must be one of the most stupid thing i've read in this forum, wow, just wow.
Dofla being the pirate that he is, causing so much trouble, the WG thinks he do this as benevolent? this WG must be really naive or maybe the WG is just closing his eye to who dofla truly is… in any case that's terrible,
it's been more than 10years the WG didn't do shit, the only alternative for viola is to believe in the pirates... I seriously don't see what's wrong with what she said.Shichibukai are dangerous pirates given amnesty that the government turns a blind eye to because they keep other pirates in check. I have a hard time believing the government or Marines ever considered Doflamingo to be a benevolent ruler, they just turned a blind eye to his antics and neglected to notice the really horrible attrocities he was comitting (probably mainly due to Sugar "erasing" certain people from memories). Basically they let him be and didnt keep a close enough eye on him because of his status, why shouldnt she be upset about that? Even if her thinking isnt completely rational why should she owe the government her trust, especially since it was mainly her own family being affected in all this.
@Cyan:
Also fucking lol at the WG not know what Doflamingo's done. You don't get a bounty like Dofla's by being a model citizen and pillar of the community.
Actually, Doflamingo DID come across as a good king. Did he have a murky background? Sure, all Warlords do, including respected Alabasta casino owner Crocodile. But Dressrosa under Doflamingo was flourishing. To any outsider- and to any citizen not from the royal family- It was a vibrant, peaceful place full of satisfied people who loved their king.
Doflamingo bought the country wealth, security and entertainment, he was the hero of the land, and every single citizen trusted him completely. What was the marines supposed to do? Depose him on a hunch? Because he used to do bad things before? With the whole country adoring him?Viola saying the WG should've removed Doflamingo back then is inane. Dressrosa practically elected the guy.
–- Update From New Post Merge ---
But that's not the point. Fujitora is supposed to be a nice guy, but no one wants him to solve this because he is part of the same institution that is responsible for causing this whole mayhem.
And Fujitora is perfectly aware of this.
Are you seriously saying the Dressrosas would object Doflamingo getting defeated and all their lives, because the wrong guy did it? Hell, if I was a dressrosan, the marines being impassive would piss me off more than anything.
And the marines weren't responsible. Its not like they forced Doflamingo on an unwilling population, quite the contrary.
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@Daz:
Actually, Doflamingo DID come across as a good king. Did he have a murky background? Sure, all Warlords do, including respected Alabasta casino owner Crocodile. But Dressrosa under Doflamingo was flourishing. To any outsider- and to any citizen not from the royal family- It was a vibrant, peaceful place full of satisfied people who loved their king.
Doflamingo bought the country wealth, security and entertainment, he was the hero of the land, and every single citizen trusted him completely. What was the marines supposed to do? Depose him on a hunch? Because he used to do bad things before? With the whole country adoring him?Viola saying the WG should've removed Doflamingo back then is inane. Dressrosa practically elected the guy.
Thank you. And I really mean it. It is… refreshing to know that some people see some things in the similar light as I do.
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@Daz:
Actually, Doflamingo DID come across as a good king. Did he have a murky background? Sure, all Warlords do, including respected Alabasta casino owner Crocodile. But Dressrosa under Doflamingo was flourishing. To any outsider- and to any citizen not from the royal family- It was a vibrant, peaceful place full of satisfied people who loved their king.
Doflamingo bought the country wealth, security and entertainment, he was the hero of the land, and every single citizen trusted him completely. What was the marines supposed to do? Depose him on a hunch? Because he used to do bad things before? With the whole country adoring him?Viola saying the WG should've removed Doflamingo back then is inane. Dressrosa practically elected the guy.
Well, Viola knows exactly what happened 10 years ago, so her opinion is kind biased.
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In other news, it looks like Sabo is incorporating his pole with his new fire powers. Good on Oda for, at least for now, making him not an Ace clone.
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Don't worry Darth, Sabo will break the circle for you :ninja:
I will eat every hat I own in frustration if that happens.
Really. If the Sabo is the one to somehow convince Fujitora to act against Doflamingo, I will print that page out just so I can burn it. Fittingly.
I hate Sues solving problems. I really, really do.
–- Update From New Post Merge ---
Well, Viola knows exactly what happened 10 years ago, so her opinion is kind biased.
And she did nothing to spread this knowledge.
Good job.
And no, after you openly defy Doflamingo there is no reason to not go to marine Admiral. They don't like Shichibukai in the first place.
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Not to mention that, if we relay on the so called "feelings of the nation", YOUR ENTIRE FAMILY WOULD BE DEAD RIGHT NOW. Because, just a reminder, they thought your family was the worst criminals! You are alive, because they weren't allowed to act on those feelings! THE CROWDS RIGHT NOW ARE AIMING FOR YOUR HEAD! STOP! WITH! THIS! BULLSHIT!
This made me laugh. Yeah, wishing that "if only everyone listened to the publics will!" is not the best argument when said public is Dressrosa, who have been established as extremely fickle, even corrupted and selfish.
Really, Viola has been slightly hamfisted since the beginning. Recently she's been pushed as having fought against Doflamingo from within, but she was introduced as beeing a loyal follower executing anti-straw hat laws to the letter, and needing Sanji to snap her out of her funk. Combined with her Plot Convenience Eyes, she's…not the best character.
And just so everything isn't negative from me:
Bartolomeo is fucking awesome, steals every scene, and is the best thing about Dressrosa.
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Damn, keeping conversation with several people at once sure is demanding…
You're doing well so far:happy:
This. This made me giggle. And I have a beard.
But seriously, if it doesn't, wouldn't it mean that Fujitora's plan is actually the more practical? I mean if it was as simple as cutting the strings I feel like he would've attempted that by now. (Mind, he may not be enough of a straight up "swordsman" to cut them, but I'd find that a little silly.)
Just a theory, I'm expecting Doffy to remove it.
Actually I'm more concerned about Pica. I'm 99% sure the island isn't turning back to its original shape. It must be quite hard to see your homeland in such condition. I wonder if Oda will play on this feeling later.
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Well, Viola knows exactly what happened 10 years ago, so her opinion is kind biased.
Since no marines knew what happened, its also a bit unfounded to blame them from not saving Dressrosa back then. The entire rest of the world pretty much got the story of "King went absolutely insane, pirate Doflamingo stopped him from robbing his country and killing everyone"
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I might have gotten something wrong, but is Viola really blaming the marines for not acting 10 years ago?
I think she's more pissed off at the WG, really, and the morning's stunt with the CP0 (acting under World Nobles orders) is the icing on the cake for rightfully hating them and all they stand for.
And correct me if I'm wrong, but the marines ARE siding with Dofla. . .so, yeah? She's. . .got a point in there when she says "they won't listen"?
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I might have gotten something wrong, but is Viola really blaming the marines for not acting 10 years ago?
I think she's more pissed off at the WG, really, and the morning's stunt with the CP0 (acting under World Nobles orders) is the icing on the cake for rightfully hating them and all they stand for.
And correct me if I'm wrong, but the marines ARE siding with Dofla. . .so, yeah? She's. . .got a point in there when she says "they won't listen"?
They won't listen to what, exactly? Because I don't see anyone pleading with them to go after Doffy. The poor, poor citizens that Viola says nobody listens to, are actually following Doflamingo's game.
Technicaly, they are doing exactly what Viola wants them to do. Listening to the cries of people of Dressrosa… gunning down for Riku and Straw Hats.
AND SHE DOES NOTHING TO REMEDY THAT. She just says that they won't listen, and leaves it at that.
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I might have gotten something wrong, but is Viola really blaming the marines for not acting 10 years ago?
I think she's more pissed off at the WG, really, and the morning's stunt with the CP0 (acting under World Nobles orders) is the icing on the cake for rightfully hating them and all they stand for.
And correct me if I'm wrong, but the marines ARE siding with Dofla. . .so, yeah? She's. . .got a point in there when she says "they won't listen"?
Well, in the MP translation, she infers that the WG giving Doffy his title is what allowed him to take over and make them suffer, hence making them responsible.
Whereas the MS translation directly states that the WG gave him the country, and she won't be saved by no dirty marines.Both things are pretty dumb arguments, considering the massive and succesful scam Doflamingo pulled.
At this point, I kinda want to see King Riku meet Fujitora, just to see how the latter would react.
–- Update From New Post Merge ---
Also, I didn't much care for the bikini-top grab gag, but Senor Pink was also pretty great this week. Though I find Lao G more entertaining (G!), I would looooove to see a proper Franky fight, pillar nunchucks were ages ago
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@Daz:
Are you seriously saying the Dressrosas would object Doflamingo getting defeated and all their lives, because the wrong guy did it? Hell, if I was a dressrosan, the marines being impassive would piss me off more than anything.
And the marines weren't responsible. Its not like they forced Doflamingo on an unwilling population, quite the contrary.
I'm not talking about the Marines only, but the WG as a whole, which includes both the Marines and the Warlords.
Fujitora himself said that the people weren't sad, but angry. To me, that means that they aren't begging for the Marines to help them, but rather to fuck themselves (which is unfair, but alas, that's how the masses work).
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I liked everything about this chapter. Everything.
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… It was a nice color spread.
Yeah, that's about all of positives I have to say about this chapter.
okay! thank you and have a nice week
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@Daz:
Well, in the MP translation, she infers that the WG giving Doffy his title is what allowed him to take over and make them suffer, hence making them responsible.
Whereas the MS translation directly states that the WG gave him the country, and she won't be saved by no dirty marines.Both things are pretty dumb arguments, considering the massive and succesful scam Doflamingo pulled.
At this point, I kinda want to see King Riku meet Fujitora, just to see how the latter would react.
No matter how bright's the scam Dofla pulled in the eyes of someone who's been a victim of it for 10 years.
Of course she blames the WG! 1-Dofla is from a founding family of the WG who just comes outta nowhere to reclaim his land. 2- He's a vicious pirate offered a title of total immunity by the WG. 3- A WG elite intelligence agence (CP0) helps him in times of need.
Of. Course. She hates the WG and will put part of the blame on them! HELL, we saw Sakazuki and Fujitora being all "the fuck?" themselves when the WG said "you don't touch Dofla".
And the marines are helping Dofla, this is not even up to debate. If she sees a faction supposedly working for justice and helping the citizens instead siding with a maniac bloodthirsty tyrant right after this tyrant proclaims to the 4 winds and all the country to see that "I should've killed you all assholes but instead let's play this game of absolute terror and death!", she WON'T be understanding.
She's biased, but from her PoV, she has all the rights in the world to be pissed beyonf believe.
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What does it matter that the WG employs the marines at this point? I don't think the Dressrosan family man currently being forced to murder his wife would be all that picky when it comes to who takes out Doflamingo.
"Oh, the marines were here, and chose not to apprehend Doflamingo and stop the massive bloodshed, even when they had the chance? Good, i wouldn't want help from those guys, even in the face of a nationwide massacre".
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You guys are overthinking things. Both translations probably took liberties in what was said. It's basically her saying the government is backing Doflamingo. They gave him a title and backing that made it possible for him to take over the country. So she doesn't expect help or want help from them. So she's putting her hopes in the SH.
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Still catching up to the thread but what if Fuji's actions aren't because of Doflamingo being a warlord but instead involve him possibly being a Celestial Dragon?
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Actually, I thought Tsuru was the one to notice… but knowledge of the skill confirms nothing, I'm afraid.
I'll have to leave this one as I have no further evidence to back up other than that situation, but I still think it exists as the trigger for the investigation.
As I said before, goverment agents and marines among toys.
Or do you assume they found nothing of note? Even they are turned, even if they managed to report, their report vanishes.
Useful skill she has, that Sugar.
But that's the thing. Their existence vanishes yes, but it's not like Kyros' statue disappeared when he was turned into a toy. People knew there was a Kyros at one point. Any files on those Marines/Agents would still exist. And the Marines would've been going through their file cabinets thinking, why do I have all these files? And the World Gov't would have been thinking the same thing. And the higher ups would still remember they wanted Dressrosa investigated, and they would send another individual until enough evidence piles up and someone intelligent makes the connection. The only explanation is deliberate ignorance on the WG's part.
Hmm… but that does not make him untouchable. He, in fact, completly cut off his contact with the WG. Fujitora could've killed him and what exactly could WG do to question him? He makes the story up, and his subordinates were shown to be eager to deal with him, so they would vouch for him. Sakazuki would be on his side, because that's one more pirate dead.
Sakazuki would probably be on his side yes (I'm still not sure he's so much opposed to pirates as he is to anyone the World Gov't says is bad. Akainu is smart yes, but he's clearly a zealot in his regards for following the WG's orders.), but I highly doubt the WG would be. Doflamingo is clearly more important to them than Crocodile. They saved face by saying a marine discovered Croc's abuse of his powers; they would have a shitstorm on their hands if they accused the son of celestial dragon with all these crimes.
Never said he was the pinnacle of goodnes, you know? And if we consider that marines appear to be at least partialy based on 16/17/18 century navy, we could excuse it as historical accuracy.
People were less moral once. Just the way it is.
Still generally called for a trial of some sort. Even back then. Trials have been around for a long itme. That scene was explicitly made to show us just how deep in his beliefs and "Absolute Justice" Akainu is.
But the principle still stands. Or, to use better example, Alabasta civil war. If what Violet argues would stand, it would be okay for the rebels and king's man to kill each other… because that's what they wanted at the time.
These are just completely different things. Violet isn't claiming it's right for the Marines and Civilians to fight, she's just saying she doesn't want to be saved by people affiliated with the organization she doesn't trust.
Hmm… shouldn't Kyros cutting a string clone stand as a proof that they can be cut? I'm pretty sure Fuji is up to task...
Then why didn't he do it and let the civilians escape is the question. Which means either one of two things: 1) He really can't do it. 2) He is also a zealot of his version of Justice and really wants the evidence to pin on the Shichibukai.
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okay! thank you and have a nice week
Hey! I liked Senior Pink as well. He is always fun to have.
And Bartolomeo was cool as well. Basically, everything not related to Sabo, Marines or Viola was okay.
Just a little itsy-bitsy touch of optimism.
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Shit, son. I'm pumped.
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@Daz:
"Oh, the marines were here, and chose not to apprehend Doflamingo and stop the massive bloodshed, even when they had the chance? Good, i wouldn't want help from those guys, even in the face of a nationwide massacre".
"Get moving, I only allow main characters to rescue me."
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@Daz:
Well, in the MP translation, she infers that the WG giving Doffy his title is what allowed him to take over and make them suffer, hence making them responsible.
Whereas the MS translation directly states that the WG gave him the country, and she won't be saved by no dirty marines.Both things are pretty dumb arguments, considering the massive and succesful scam Doflamingo pulled.
At this point, I kinda want to see King Riku meet Fujitora, just to see how the latter would react.
But would this scam have been able to happen if it weren't for his title? Had it been a pirate that wasn't approved by the government taking over the country would the Marines not have acted against them? Despite the people of the country loving him and Dressrossa seeming to flourish it still seems like something like this wouldn't have been allowed to happen if it weren't for Doflamingo being a government-appointed pirate, thus the distrust.
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"Get moving, I only allow main characters to rescue me."
"Unless it's Sabo, praise be to his almightness."
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You're doing well so far:happy:
Actually I'm more concerned about Pica. I'm 99% sure the island isn't turning back to its original shape. It must be quite hard to see your homeland in such condition. I wonder if Oda will play on this feeling later.I dunno, they could make a really sweet water park out of the new terrain…
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No matter how bright's the scam Dofla pulled in the eyes of someone who's been a victim of it for 10 years.
Of course she blames the WG! 1-Dofla is from a founding family of the WG who just comes outta nowhere to reclaim his land. 2- He's a vicious pirate offered a title of total immunity by the WG. 3- A WG elite intelligence agence (CP0) helps him in times of need.
Of. Course. She hates the WG and will put part of the blame on them! HELL, we saw Sakazuki and Fujitora being all "the fuck?" themselves when the WG said "you don't touch Dofla".
And the marines are helping Dofla, this is not even up to debate. If she sees a faction supposedly working for justice and helping the citizens instead siding with a maniac bloodthirsty tyrant right after this tyrant proclaims to the 4 winds and all the country to see that "I should've killed you all assholes but instead let's play this game of absolute terror and death!", she WON'T be understanding.
She's biased, but from her PoV, she has all the rights in the world to be pissed beyonf believe.
yeah, the marines actions now are beyond questionable. But still, laying the blame on them for the last 10 years is decidedly unjustified. We know this, as readers. Now, you could explain it all by saying Violet is being overly emotional, but thats not how its presented. She is speaking calmly, uncontestedly, she is the voice of Oda giving us the lowdown on the situation: The marines are untrostworthy, because WGs been screwing us over since 10 years ago.
If it was truly colored by Violets bias, if we were supposed to think she is being partially wrong and unfair, Oda is beyond terrible at conveying it.He could've had her be more hatefilled and emotional. Or have had Riku contest her statement, "now now, Viola, no one knew the truth back then" or something to that effect, have anyone have a reaction to the BS she is saying, but theres nothing.
And thats because the scene isn't supposed to convey "Viola is overemotional and biased".
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But would this scam have been able to happen if it weren't for his title? Had it been a pirate that wasn't approved by the government taking over the country would the Marines not have acted against them? Despite the people of the country loving him and Dressrossa seeming to flourish it still seems like something like this wouldn't have been allowed to happen if it weren't for Doflamingo being a government-appointed pirate, thus the distrust.
… But why should goverment not appoint him Shichibukai? Citizens love him. They would probably side up with him against the Goverment. It was that, or going basicaly at war with him. Why, if you have more bloodless option available?
From the perspetive of WG, one can even argue that in the consequentionalist point of view, it was even more moral thing to do.
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@Daz:
yeah, the marines actions now are beyond questionable. But still, laying the blame on them for the last 10 years is decidedly unjustified. We know this, as readers. Now, you could explain it all by saying Violet is being overly emotional, but thats not how its presented. She is speaking calmly, uncontestedly, she is the voice of Oda giving us the lowdown on the situation: The marines are untrostworthy, because WGs been screwing us over since 10 years ago.
If it was truly colored by Violets bias, if we were supposed to think she is being partially wrong and unfair, Oda is beyond terrible at conveying it.He could've had her be more hatefilled and emotional. Or have had Riku contest her statement, "now now, Viola, no one knew the truth back then" or something to that effect, have anyone have a reaction to the BS she is saying, but theres nothing.
And thats because the scene isn't supposed to convey "Viola is overemotional and biased".
It's not from the viewpoint of Oda. It's from the viewpoint of Viola. There was no mention that Fujitora is against Doflamingo. Which we as readers know to be true.
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But would this scam have been able to happen if it weren't for his title? Had it been a pirate that wasn't approved by the government taking over the country would the Marines not have acted against them? Despite the people of the country loving him and Dressrossa seeming to flourish it still seems like something like this wouldn't have been allowed to happen if it weren't for Doflamingo being a government-appointed pirate, thus the distrust.
But thats less the WG instating him, and more Doflamingo "abusing" his title. By this logic, Alabasta should've seceded from the WG and been throwing rotten eggs at Smoker and Tashigi for arresting Crocodile.
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@Daz:
yeah, the marines actions now are beyond questionable. But still, laying the blame on them for the last 10 years is decidedly unjustified. We know this, as readers. Now, you could explain it all by saying Violet is being overly emotional, but thats not how its presented. She is speaking calmly, uncontestedly, she is the voice of Oda giving us the lowdown on the situation: The marines are untrostworthy, because WGs been screwing us over since 10 years ago.
If it was truly colored by Violets bias, if we were supposed to think she is being partially wrong and unfair, Oda is beyond terrible at conveying it.He could've had her be more hatefilled and emotional. Or have had Riku contest her statement, "now now, Viola, no one knew the truth back then" or something to that effect, have anyone have a reaction to the BS she is saying, but theres nothing.
And thats because the scene isn't supposed to convey "Viola is overemotional and biased".
But she can put the blame of them if she wants. A Shicki is fcking with 'em. Shickis are WG's dogs. They do nasty things, and WG knows it. Plus, now the WG is taking action against them when they know for fact the truth (of Doffy being and ass).
Actually, Viola and Fujitora are doing the exact same diagnosis. The problem is the Schikis system, and both of them blame the WG. The difference relays on the conclusions: Viola wants to stop it right now for the local and personal peace, and having lost faith in WG, why not believe in a smiling pirate?; while Fuji wants the local situation to go on, let Doffy bring chaos now, in order to build up evidence/arguments to destroy the Schikis system forever.
Personally, I believe Fuji would like to safe them all now, but he is sooooo tired of Good actions resulting useles. (Actually, why is he so tired if he has just came in? I think that this is what is creating confusion: a new introduced character who is not firlmly defined but in the middle of changing his morals for the first time)
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I'll have to leave this one as I have no further evidence to back up other than that situation, but I still think it exists as the trigger for the investigation.
And the investigation probably was launched. Que Sugar.
But that's the thing. Their existence vanishes yes, but it's not like Kyros' statue disappeared when he was turned into a toy. People knew there was a Kyros at one point. Any files on those Marines/Agents would still exist. And the Marines would've been going through their file cabinets thinking, why do I have all these files? And the World Gov't would have been thinking the same thing. And the higher ups would still remember they wanted Dressrosa investigated, and they would send another individual until enough evidence piles up and someone intelligent makes the connection. The only explanation is deliberate ignorance on the WG's part.
That is actually easily explained. Person like that never existed in our employment, therefore it must be a mistake in our documentation.
It's more plausible then the thought that such person did existed, and then it dissappeared.
Altough I guess if you had bunch of orders sending people to Dressrosa, and then suddenly forgeting about it… well, you can still say it got lost in the massive structure that is WG.
The same way Dressrosa citizens remained ignorarnt. And let me tell you, they've had a lot more evidence to suspect something.
Sakazuki would probably be on his side yes (I'm still not sure he's so much opposed to pirates as he is to anyone the World Gov't says is bad. Akainu is smart yes, but he's clearly a zealot in his regards for following the WG's orders.), but I highly doubt the WG would be. Doflamingo is clearly more important to them than Crocodile. They saved face by saying a marine discovered Croc's abuse of his powers; they would have a shitstorm on their hands if they accused the son of celestial dragon with all these crimes.
Maybe. But on the other hand… he did say he is no longer a celestial dragon. One does wonder...
How one stops being a celestial dragon?
Still generally called for a trial of some sort. Even back then. Trials have been around for a long itme. That scene was explicitly made to show us just how deep in his beliefs and "Absolute Justice" Akainu is.
I know. That's why I like him: A little bit of moral ambiguity didn't hurt anyone.
These are just completely different things. Violet isn't claiming it's right for the Marines and Civilians to fight, she's just saying she doesn't want to be saved by people affiliated with the organization she doesn't trust.
No, she says they won't even if asked. Because they would choose to deliberatly ignore the pleads of the masses.
Which is different.
Then why didn't he do it and let the civilians escape is the question. Which means either one of two things: 1) He really can't do it. 2) He is also a zealot of his version of Justice and really wants the evidence to pin on the Shichibukai.
Or he is made intentionaly incompetent by the plot. Like Marines are used to. We can't have them doing anything positive, now, do we? That would ruin the message.