One question rose to my mind: Is Sabo capable of stopping all the Marines? I'm sure Fujitora could command his units to push forward as he focuses on Sabo.
Chapter 750: "The State of War"
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Baseless.
Baseless power levels arguments everywhere.
I agree that it's baseless to assume Sabo is stronger than Fujitora, but does it not make sense that he should be somewhere in the same ballpark in terms of power? I mean, Oda clearly hinted to us that Ace/Sabo were starting off on a similar level of strength as children. This is two years later, and Sabo's techniques hint towards direct tutelage under Dragon, a man that I must assume is powerful due to his ability to get other powerful characters to work under him.
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@D:
All the argument that you use, have no logic value whatsoever, its only your personal opinion. Plus i can't take you seriously with that avatar.
Lol really? Please explain why it doesn't because your post is worthless.
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About Sabo and Fuji, I think Fuji will just command to everyone stand back while he take care of Sabo.
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One question rose to my mind: Is Sabo capable of stopping all the Marines? I'm sure Fujitora could command his units to push forward as he focuses on Sabo.
Fuji might send some of the marine fodder+Maynard and Bastille to aid the executives. Fuji is more than enough for Sabo right now. I can imagine they'll be interrupted too. Too early for either of them to lose.
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Burgess could appear too, cause some ruckus.
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Lol really? Please explain why it doesn't because your post is worthless.
The structure of your argument has the struct of A is human, A name is X, B name is also X ==> then B must be human. What makes you think that all yonku first commanders have the same power( Marco = Jesus, by your logic) and also why the first commander > second commander > third and so on? Answer me to this pls.
Also you said that Diamande was the top executive of DD. There was never mentioned that he was in a better position than Pica and Trebol, let alone Vergo. You made this up from your mind.
Finally, i said thatyour post had no value, because you know nothing about sabo, other how he fared against 2 opponents, only in a small brawl. Jesus and Diamante left the colosseum only with bruises and without any harm. From only that you can't say sabo is stronger. Yes you can say that he outwitted them, and get first in the mera mera, but not that he is stronger. -
Plus the avatar.
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Lol^ .
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@Daz:
The 746 scene I get your point, but the 747 scene…not so much. When Fujitora says "Deposing Warlords has been tried, doesn't work", and "is the World government the same as god?" that reads as if Fujitora not only feels capturing Doflamingo is meaningless (umm no, it would stop the bloodshed at the very least?), and that the world. government...has "no right to play God" and change the islands fate? So they'll just maintain the mass-murdering status quo? Fujitora even says this week that they wanted to block the Coliseum fighters from charging the palace...and that group includes non-pirates and WG royalty.
The first part I read differently. When Maynard fell on his ass, I took is as a ". . .are you freaking serious?" kind of reaction. The exact same thing as with the Bastille scene, basically. In fact, even after hearing. . .some very vague reasoning? (in fact, it felt like Fuji was talking to himself a bit?), he still fell to the floor. That's not the sign of someone being convinced at all by someone else's reasoning.
Now, as to why the marines feel empowered to block a freaking KING (punch) from doing as he pleases. . .well, Oda might have forgotten he had a freaking king in there, lol.
To be honest, that king is in a single party with a 280M. pirate and a Class A war criminal (however that translates into a bounty), and, earlier, also two terrorists known for bombing WG facilities, among other "saints". I think it's easy to treat them as a single entity instead of sorting them out one by one? I honestly don't know. . .
And now, when Violet speaks, we get imagery of Fujitoras head next to Doflamingos head, accompanied by clarification that "these guys are the problem. We can't trust the World Government (and by extension, Fujitora).
Actually, Violet says exactly the same things Fuji said during 747, with the cries of anger and stuff, yet she comes to the conclusion that these cries fall on deaf ears to those that are on a position of power, and yes, she's in part referring to Fuji and the marines.
But, from what we saw during 747, Fuji is indeed listening to those cries, and he's obviously not pleased by them. So, maybe, Violet isn't entirely right in putting the blame on Fuji. I mean, yeah, he's to blame for his inoperativeness (is this even a word?), but he actually cares (and possibly suffers?) because of what happens, though he's still not acting so he deserves all the blame but. . .yeah, well, it's complicated.
Fujitora has somehow been slotted into the "unreliable, politically motivated law enforcer" role, and while Oda indeed might make a tournaround later, Fujitora standing by for mass civilian casualties until then will be incredibly hard to justify.
Yeah, well. . .the fact that he's not just not going after Dofla, but also concentrating on HELPING Dofla instead of just going around stoping civilians to hurt each other is kinda screwed up. I think Oda might've dropped the ball with that moral principle Fuji stood for but seems like he doesn't care that much for it right now?
That's the most muddled part of his character right now.
And the main tragedy of Dressrosa is people being involuntarily used as puppets to kill their friends and loved ones. its a bit much to ask them to man up and revolt.
Yeah, that too. . .but the ones that are not being controled actually decided to go against their beloved King Riku and all his lineage, and that's also pretty fucking screwed up. I can't imagine, for example, the citizens of Cocoyashi Village doing this.
Fair enough. Barring further developments I'll bide my time, I just couldn't help being flabbergasted all over again by Violets speech about the marines, and them not simply Star Hunting, but being a veritable roadblock to Doflamingos palace. I guess as their cooperativity with Doflamingo continues to be showcased, I just find it harder and harder to believe in any sort of satisfying justification.
I see your point and I kinda agree to some extent that Fuji's behaviour is weird as hell. Violet's scene I still feel like it was from her PoV, not knowing what Fuji really thinks or feels (she involuntarily duplicated his speech, as I said before), and his cooperativity with Dofla instead of being neutral (which would already feel weird, and the vice admirals seem to agree with this notion) is also super puzzling.
Again, we'll see.
I'd say, forget about that for now (even if, right now, it's a pretty important part) and try and enjoy wathever comes next, be it fights, flashbacks, or. . .more set-up. God, stop this set-up already. . .
–--------On an unrelated note, it's a good time debating with you. Cool and civil, despite me being a certified Forum Grouch.
Nah, it's cool to have you on the manga section even if it's only once every full moon, and even if it's only to show your grumpiness at current OP.
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Okay. I've done the other things, now to the chapter proper and why I dislike it. We will go for two most important plot-points
First Viola. Her argument is stupid. That's plain and simple. More so, it is highly unfair.
It ignores the fact that most of the regular marine soldiers are drafted. It takes away their human qualities, as if taking on uniform has somehow made them less human. Which I personaly find highly offensive, especially to the law enforcers.
Second, Goverment gave Doflamingo the title, and therefore cannot be trusted, cause they don't know of our pain… For fucks sake woman, you never gave them a chance. They've had no reason to doubt that Doflamingo was anything but a benevolent ruler up until this point. CITIZENS OF THE FREAKING COUNTRY WERE CONVINCED OF THAT JUST UNTIL AN HOUR AGO!
They cannot be trusted... crime has to be reported before it can be punished! That's how law works! It works like that, among the other things, to stop regular people from commiting lynches, which what you are doing right now! You can't even take the excuse that behavior by saying that Marines are unwilling to act, because you have not aproached them in any way! You don't know! You assume. You even assume wrongly, because if not for the contrived thinking made up on the spot to make Fujitora not act against the Doflamingo, his head would be rolling down the streets right now!
Not to mention that, if we relay on the so called "feelings of the nation", YOUR ENTIRE FAMILY WOULD BE DEAD RIGHT NOW. Because, just a reminder, they thought your family was the worst criminals! You are alive, because they weren't allowed to act on those feelings! THE CROWDS RIGHT NOW ARE AIMING FOR YOUR HEAD! STOP! WITH! THIS! BULLSHIT!
Feelings of the nation... understanding of pain... If we take Fujitora's words at face value, he does understand. He is ignored nonetheless. Because aproaching them would be a sensible things to do...
Thougts on Sabo and him facing the marines in a minute...
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[qimg]http://image.noelshack.com/fichiers/2014/25/1403109983-20140618032530547.png[/qimg]
Had a good laugh at that haha. Viola doesn't like Darth's post.
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http://image.noelshack.com/fichiers/2014/25/1403109983-20140618032530547.png
Nope, not in any way convincing, good sir.
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i really hope Luffy and Law don't team up for this Doffy fight
I don't think they will, but Luffy DID bring Law along and here comes fucking Rebecca with that key… -
@Piccolo:
Had a good laugh at that haha. Viola doesn't like Darth's post.
I wouldn't as well… but it needed to be said.
And her argument is strange at the very basis... what about upper echelons? They have mostly lover ranking marines, Admiral that just been drafted. The only person that had the time to become part of the system was Bastille, and he is a non-person at this point.
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Can't wait for Darth to diss Sabo again. Never change mate, never change.
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@D:
The structure of your argument has the struct of A is human, A name is X, B name is also X ==> then B must be human. What makes you think that all yonku first commanders have the same power( Marco = Jesus, by your logic) and also why the first commander > second commander > third and so on? Answer me to this pls.
Also you said that Diamande was the top executive of DD. There was never mentioned that he was in a better position than Pica and Trebol, let alone Vergo. You made this up from your mind.
Finally, i said thatyour post had no value, because you know nothing about sabo, other how he fared against 2 opponents, only in a small brawl. Jesus and Diamante left the colosseum only with bruises and without any harm. From only that you can't say sabo is stronger. Yes you can say that he outwitted them, and get first in the mera mera, but not that he is stronger.The argument was: is Sabo being Yonkou commander level baseless. It's not relevant that yonkou commander's differ in strength, we already know this. I didn't say he was stronger than any individual commander just that he is in fact commander level. We can see this easily in the structure of the story, as Luffy's older brother and who was on par with ace (close to drawing in combat), was trained by revolutionaries and again over the timeskip. His actions have shown utter confidence and now when he is seen holding off 3000 marines, a marine admiral and a vice-admiral you want to claim he's not on yonkou commander level? Don't make me laugh.
Diamante is not Dolfa's top executive but he is one of the top 4. The point was that Sabo easily dealt with a Yonkou commander and Diamante at the same time and took the fruit. They both attacked him and he easily dealt with their blows and took the fruit from them. They LOST in the contest for the fruit. Diamante even admitted "who would have known the 2nd in command of the revolutionaries would be competing".
You don't discuss manga facts and instead have gone on a tangent attempting to disprove something I wasn't claiming. Yes we can make inferences in a manga. Not all of them are impermissible. We can conclude Fujitora is an admiral and that Aokiji is an admiral so they should have relatively similar strength or at least enough to warrant being called an admiral. Please try again.
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i really hope Luffy and Law don't team up for this Doffy fight
I don't think they will, but Luffy DID bring Law along and here comes fucking Rebecca with that key…Not like Luffy can beat him on his own. I'm sure they'll team up for a while but Luffy will at least deliver the final blow if not duke it out a little at the end by himself?
Wouldn't it be really cool if Doflamingo was about to be defeated by a Luffy rush but he uses a string trap that decapitates Luffy but surprise, Law used his ability to decapitate Luffy just before the strings hit and in that split second, Luffy finishes Doflamingo off?
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Capítulo Muito bom!
A melhor parte foi ver Sabo segurando a marinha!
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senor pink is definitely a Franky opponent but I wonder if he will even be able to give him a good fight
when they fought previously Franky was holding his own pretty damn well and was still managing to lay the beat down on Pink when Machvise arrived as well
sort of feel like Franky would be better off in a 1v2 match against Pink and Vise instead
anyway, here's hoping that Franky's final attack is a huge Radical Beam aimed at Pink paired with him saying something like "you said this had no chance of destroying the factory, eh?" before it proceeds to demolish both Pink and the entrance to the factory
Franky seriously needs to destroy the factory; if anyone else takes his glory I am going to be incredibly disappointedBut Senor Pink was doing well against Franky by himself before. In fact, Franky only managed to hurt him because of Machvise, so if anything, Vise was just a liability.
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@TLC:
Not like Luffy can beat him on his own. I'm sure they'll team up for a while but Luffy will at least deliver the final blow if not duke it out a little at the end by himself?
Wouldn't it be really cool if Doflamingo was about to be defeated by a Luffy rush but he uses a string trap that decapitates Luffy but surprise, Law used his ability to decapitate Luffy just before the strings hit and in that split second, Luffy finishes Doflamingo off?
That would be really cool and I actually think Law and Luffy could have some sweet chemistry in a tag team fight, but I really want that to be reserved for when they approach Kaido.
You said that Luffy can't beat Doffy on his own, but I strongly disagree. I don't think there's any evidence to suggest that, and given the fact that we've yet to see post-timeskip Luffy get really pushed in a 1v1 fight I think it would be a shame if Oda made this a 2v1 fight. I think Luffy needs to be able to defeat Doflamingo mano a mano if he has any hopes of beating a Yonkou some day. -
I wouldn't as well… but it needed to be said.
And her argument is strange at the very basis... what about upper echelons? They have mostly lover ranking marines, Admiral that just been drafted. The only person that had the time to become part of the system was Bastille, and he is a non-person at this point.
The poor girl suffered 10 years working for Doffy, an ally of the government. And then she met a handsome pirate who can fly, nosebleed and love. A few hours later, her father, brother-in-law and niece are free (within the birdcage
).
Marine or strawhats, she chose her side. After all the government named Doffy and Fuji. The first ruined her life, the second …well it's complicated, but he isn't helping (not yet).
Her speech might be biased and unfair, but it's only natural. She is merely expressing her feelings. -
Yes! One Piece is back. Hopefully we won't get another break for a long, long, long time. It seems the 2 week break has made some posters too antsy.
Amazing cover and color spread. It took me a while before I noticed that Luffy is grabbing one of the strings on the cover. Clever foreshadowing, possibly?Anyway, this was a good chapter. The remaining Donquixote Family members are about to make their move. Rebecca, Barto, Robin, Usopp and the others have made their way to Viola's location.
Th key situation seems like a plot device to get Rebecca and Barto to encounter Doflamingo at a later point. This could lead to Rebecca either A) fighting against a DQ Family member (unlikely) or B) getting controlled by Doffy's strings.
Senor Pink ftw. That suplex on Franky was straight up dirty. lol
I've been waiting for this fight for the longest. I want to see some old-school Franky boxing!Sabo vs Fujitora….not surprised in the slightest. AND Sabo's using his flames on his pipe. Yes. Thank you, Oda.
In my opinion, neither Sabor or Fuji are going to lose this battle. It will be a very close match between them.The Corazon flashback won't happen until the fight setup is done. I want to see Law and Doffy's story, but a flashback right now would have messed up the pacing and momentum.
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But Senor Pink was doing well against Franky by himself before. In fact, Franky only managed to hurt him because of Machvise, so if anything, Vise was just a liability.
Hmm… I guess that's true.
I suppose I was just expecting Franky to brawl with someone a bit more distinguished than Senor Pink. His only real accolade to differentiate himself from the rest of the officers is that he's one of the elite Diamante fighting team. But then so are Lao G, Dellinger and Machvise. I'd be more satisfied if those three were paired up against people like Bellamy -
The poor girl suffered 10 years working for Doffy, an ally of the government. And then she met a handsome pirate who can fly, nosebleed and love. A few hours later, her father, brother-in-law and niece are free (within the birdcage
).
Marine or strawhats, she chose her side. After all the government named Doffy and Fuji. The first ruined her life, the second …well it's complicated, but he isn't helping (not yet).
Her speech might be biased and unfair, but it's only natural. She is merely expressing her feelings.Even so. Even so, I find it deeply disturbing that so many people here agree with it.
I can understand her being biased. Does not change the facts. Like the one that narrative treats it as a good explanation.
It still pisses me off that she is writing all of these people off solely based on the fact that they belong to the WG. Disregarding anything else, how in the hell is goverment to deal with the corruption, if you don't tell them about it? Are they, as Fujitora eloquently asked, Gods?
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Okay. I've done the other things, now to the chapter proper and why I dislike it. We will go for two most important plot-points
First Viola. Her argument is stupid. That's plain and simple. More so, it is highly unfair.
It ignores the fact that most of the regular marine soldiers are drafted. It takes away their human qualities, as if taking on uniform has somehow made them less human. Which I personaly find highly offensive, especially to the law enforcers.
Second, Goverment gave Doflamingo the title, and therefore cannot be trusted, cause they don't know of our pain… For fucks sake woman, you never gave them a chance. They've had no reason to doubt that Doflamingo was anything but a benevolent ruler up until this point. CITIZENS OF THE FREAKING COUNTRY WERE CONVINCED OF THAT JUST UNTIL AN HOUR AGO!
They cannot be trusted... crime has to be reported before it can be punished! That's how law works! It works like that, among the other things, to stop regular people from commiting lynches, which what you are doing right now! You can't even take the excuse that behavior by saying that Marines are unwilling to act, because you have not aproached them in any way! You don't know! You assume. You even assume wrongly, because if not for the contrived thinking made up on the spot to make Fujitora not act against the Doflamingo, his head would be rolling down the streets right now!
Not to mention that, if we relay on the so called "feelings of the nation", YOUR ENTIRE FAMILY WOULD BE DEAD RIGHT NOW. Because, just a reminder, they thought your family was the worst criminals! You are alive, because they weren't allowed to act on those feelings! THE CROWDS RIGHT NOW ARE AIMING FOR YOUR HEAD! STOP! WITH! THIS! BULLSHIT!
Feelings of the nation... understanding of pain... If we take Fujitora's words at face value, he does understand. He is ignored nonetheless. Because aproaching them would be a sensible things to do...
Thougts on Sabo and him facing the marines in a minute...
You're operating under the assumption that the World Gov't knew nothing of Doflamingo's past actions. They knew he was a pirate with a HIGH bounty, and outside of us as readers it seems that higher ranking Marine Officers were perfectly aware that Doflamingo has an ability to manipulate people, if not a full understanding of his Devil Fruit. The fact that they let him takeover a country, even with his dubious background, is a fair point for Viola/Violet to not trust the World Gov't, and by extension their enforcers.
It's not about her not trusting the men/women serving individually, it's about the fact that she knows even if they try to stop Doflamingo the World Gov't will interfere. That kind of disconnect between soldiers and top brass is seen all the time in the real world, where soldiers want to act but they can't based on orders. The one thing soldiers are supposed to do, the whole reason they get broken down in basic training, is follow orders. You saw what happened to the marine trying to flee during the war, Akainu happened. The marines know to follow orders, and if their orders are coming form the World Gov't, then they can't be trusted. Marines such as Coby or Garp that question orders are not regular.
The crowd wasn't allowed to act on those feelings of killing the royal family because Doflamingo kept Violet as a hostage and Rebecca for sport. It has nothing to do with the Marines/World Gov't.
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Second, Goverment gave Doflamingo the title, and therefore cannot be trusted, cause they don't know of our pain… For fucks sake woman, you never gave them a chance. They've had no reason to doubt that Doflamingo was anything but a benevolent ruler up until this point. CITIZENS OF THE FREAKING COUNTRY WERE CONVINCED OF THAT JUST UNTIL AN HOUR AGO!
.that must be one of the most stupid thing i've read in this forum, wow, just wow.
Dofla being the pirate that he is, causing so much trouble, the WG thinks he do this as benevolent? this WG must be really naive or maybe the WG is just closing his eye to who dofla truly is… in any case that's terrible,
it's been more than 10years the WG didn't do shit, the only alternative for viola is to believe in the pirates... I seriously don't see what's wrong with what she said.Sorry my English is not perfect.
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Second, Goverment gave Doflamingo the title, and therefore cannot be trusted, cause they don't know of our pain… For fucks sake woman, you never gave them a chance. They've had no reason to doubt that Doflamingo was anything but a benevolent ruler up until this point. CITIZENS OF THE FREAKING COUNTRY WERE CONVINCED OF THAT JUST UNTIL AN HOUR AGO!
Shichibukai are dangerous pirates given amnesty that the government turns a blind eye to because they keep other pirates in check. I have a hard time believing the government or Marines ever considered Doflamingo to be a benevolent ruler, they just turned a blind eye to his antics and neglected to notice the really horrible attrocities he was comitting (probably mainly due to Sugar "erasing" certain people from memories). Basically they let him be and didnt keep a close enough eye on him because of his status, why shouldnt she be upset about that? Even if her thinking isnt completely rational why should she owe the government her trust, especially since it was mainly her own family being affected in all this.
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Este capítulo teve o objetivo único de situar geograficamente os personagens. E começar a definir quem lutará com quem.
Zoro ja definiu de vez que lutará com Pika
Luffy está indo pra cima de Doflamingo e pode ter mais oponentes antes de chegar a ele.
Franky também com Senor Pink.E ao mesmo tempo Oda retira Chopper, Nami, Sanji e Broke para dar atenção especial a estes que estão em Dress Rosa.
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Actually, Violet says exactly the same things Fuji said during 747, with the cries of anger and stuff, yet she comes to the conclusion that these cries fall on deaf ears to those that are on a position of power, and yes, she's in part referring to Fuji and the marines.
But, from what we saw during 747, Fuji is indeed listening to those cries, and he's obviously not pleased by them. So, maybe, Violet isn't entirely right in putting the blame on Fuji. I mean, yeah, he's to blame for his inoperativeness (is this even a word?), but he actually cares (and possibly suffers?) because of what happens, though he's still not acting so he deserves all the blame but. . .yeah, well, it's complicated.
I think the point here is that both Viola and Fujitora reached the same conclusion: Dressrosa can't rely on the WG to solve this problem because they were the ones to start it in the first place.
Okay. I've done the other things, now to the chapter proper and why I dislike it. We will go for two most important plot-points
First Viola. Her argument is stupid. That's plain and simple. More so, it is highly unfair.
It ignores the fact that most of the regular marine soldiers are drafted. It takes away their human qualities, as if taking on uniform has somehow made them less human. Which I personaly find highly offensive, especially to the law enforcers.
Second, Goverment gave Doflamingo the title, and therefore cannot be trusted, cause they don't know of our pain… For fucks sake woman, you never gave them a chance. They've had no reason to doubt that Doflamingo was anything but a benevolent ruler up until this point. CITIZENS OF THE FREAKING COUNTRY WERE CONVINCED OF THAT JUST UNTIL AN HOUR AGO!
They cannot be trusted... crime has to be reported before it can be punished! That's how law works! It works like that, among the other things, to stop regular people from commiting lynches, which what you are doing right now! You can't even take the excuse that behavior by saying that Marines are unwilling to act, because you have not aproached them in any way! You don't know! You assume. You even assume wrongly, because if not for the contrived thinking made up on the spot to make Fujitora not act against the Doflamingo, his head would be rolling down the streets right now!
Not to mention that, if we relay on the so called "feelings of the nation", YOUR ENTIRE FAMILY WOULD BE DEAD RIGHT NOW. Because, just a reminder, they thought your family was the worst criminals! You are alive, because they weren't allowed to act on those feelings! THE CROWDS RIGHT NOW ARE AIMING FOR YOUR HEAD! STOP! WITH! THIS! BULLSHIT!
Feelings of the nation... understanding of pain... If we take Fujitora's words at face value, he does understand. He is ignored nonetheless. Because aproaching them would be a sensible things to do...
Thougts on Sabo and him facing the marines in a minute...
Fujitora understands, but why would Viola have any reason to believe so?
If anything, you could say the reason Fujitora is not doing anything is essentially because he knows what Viola and the rest of the population feel. They don't want the WG to help them.
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Even so. Even so, I find it deeply disturbing that so many people here agree with it.
I can understand her being biased. Does not change the facts. Like the one that narrative treats it as a good explanation.
It still pisses me off that she is writing all of these people off solely based on the fact that they belong to the WG. Disregarding anything else, how in the hell is goverment to deal with the corruption, if you don't tell them about it? Are they, as Fujitora eloquently asked, Gods?
The marines that are there aren't doing anything to stop what Doflamingo is doing. Not a single marine ended up as a star on Doflamingo's list. The SH are actually doing things. God Ussop is the one who broke the 10 year toy curse. Viola picking the side that is actually producing results is a very logical decision. What Fujitora actually believes is a moot point to what Viola believes unless he actually does something about it to make her believe the WG will help.
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Fujitora = revolutionary mole?
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Even so. Even so, I find it deeply disturbing that so many people here agree with it.
I can understand her being biased. Does not change the facts. Like the one that narrative treats it as a good explanation.
It still pisses me off that she is writing all of these people off solely based on the fact that they belong to the WG. Disregarding anything else, how in the hell is goverment to deal with the corruption, if you don't tell them about it? Are they, as Fujitora eloquently asked, Gods?
I'm sure Fuji prepare something(or not), but right now he is just confirming Viola's opinion. And I'm not sure it was explicitly shown but I think the world government itself is already corrupted.
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You're operating under the assumption that the World Gov't knew nothing of Doflamingo's past actions. They knew he was a pirate with a HIGH bounty, and outside of us as readers it seems that higher ranking Marine Officers were perfectly aware that Doflamingo has an ability to manipulate people, if not a full understanding of his Devil Fruit. The fact that they let him takeover a country, even with his dubious background, is a fair point for Viola/Violet to not trust the World Gov't, and by extension their enforcers.
Untrue, considering the meeting in Mariejoa, when VA ranking marines had no idea about his skills.
And even disregarding that, the citizens themself were happy to have Doflamingo as a king. How exactly does WG goes about trying to depose him in the first place? And why would they? Because Doflamingo possses this power? That's a pretty weak argument.
It's not about her not trusting the men/women serving individually, it's about the fact that she knows even if they try to stop Doflamingo the World Gov't will interfere. That kind of disconnect between soldiers and top brass is seen all the time in the real world, where soldiers want to act but they can't based on orders. The one thing soldiers are supposed to do, the whole reason they get broken down in basic training, is follow orders. You saw what happened to the marine trying to flee during the war, Akainu happened. The marines know to follow orders, and if their orders are coming form the World Gov't, then they can't be trusted. Marines such as Coby or Garp that question orders are not regular.
They don't have the orders to keep Doflamingo on the throne from the higher ups. It was Fujitora's own decision (which I still say was contrived).
Also, desertion, and then refusal to the direct order from the higher up to go back into the battle. That constitutes for death punishment in real military, even in most of democratic countries. Akainu was not out of line there.
Not to mention that this is one time the soldiers can do what they want. They don't have contact with the top brass. The decision it theirs.
The crowd wasn't allowed to act on those feelings of killing the royal family because Doflamingo kept Violet as a hostage and Rebecca for sport. It has nothing to do with the Marines/World Gov't.
Other actor, but the principle is the same still. They wanted to lynch them, and governing force did not allow it. They might've done so for their own selfish reasons, but it's been done nonetheless, and they would be dead if Doflamingo acted the way they want to act.
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Darth is doing mental gymnastics to grasp that an authoritarian regime willingly employs horrible people who do horrible things.
Also fucking lol at the WG not know what Doflamingo's done. You don't get a bounty like Dofla's by being a model citizen and pillar of the community.
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that must be one of the most stupid thing i've read in this forum, wow, just wow.
Dofla being the pirate that he is, causing so much trouble, the WG thinks he do this as benevolent? this WG must be really naive or maybe the WG is just closing his eye to who dofla truly is… in any case that's terrible,
it's been more than 10years the WG didn't do shit, the only alternative for viola is to believe in the pirates... I seriously don't see what's wrong with what she said.He is causing trouble THEM. Not the kingdom. On what charges should he be deposed, as far as the Kingdom is concerned?
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@Cyan:
Darth is doing mental gymnastics to grasp that an authoritarian regime willingly employs horrible people who do horrible things.
Then fucking present that like that in the narrative. Don't give me bullshit on Fujitora being in conflict with Dofla, him calling ships to help citizens.
Make him actual authoritarian. Make him machiavellan.
Because what was presented ain't either, so yeah. Tough, but your argument is invalid.
@Cyan:
Also fucking lol at the WG not know what Doflamingo's done. You don't get a bounty like Dofla's by being a model citizen and pillar of the community.
Yeah, they knew everything. Exactly how it was presented… where? Because I recall certain marine VA going on how they need to arrest him...
He got a bounty for acting against WG. He presumably stoped when made Shichibukai. What exactly is there difficult to understand?
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@Cyan:
Darth is doing mental gymnastics to grasp that an authoritarian regime willingly employs horrible people who do horrible things.
Also fucking lol at the WG not know what Doflamingo's done. You don't get a bounty like Dofla's by being a model citizen and pillar of the community.
Lol, it's funny to since the main benefit of becoming a Shichibukai is if you join the WG they'll overlook all the bad shit you do.
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I'm sure Fuji prepare something(or not), but right now he is just confirming Viola's opinion. And I'm not sure it was explicitly shown but I think the world government itself is already corrupted.
It's a circular logic. He is confirming Viola's opinion because he does not act, he does not act because Viola and the rest of the kingdom have that opinion.
That circle needs to be broken, and it ain't Fuji that needs to be doing the breaking.
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That sounds reasonable to me, he cant be seen to oppose Doflamingo, but if someone stands in his way I have no doubt that he is ok with a bit of time wasting. Fujitora wants Doflamingo to fall as it will be the final nail in the coffin of the Shichibukai system, which is exactly what Fujitora wants. Most of the current Shichibukai are Luffy supporters now anyway and cant be relied upon by the WG.
Maybe we'll see the rise of the Ichibukai, Buggy.
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It's a circular logic. He is confirming Viola's opinion because he does not act, he does not act because Viola and the rest of the kingdom have that opinion.
That circle needs to be broken, and it ain't Fuji that needs to be doing the breaking.
Ironically, Viola started a speech for the same reason as you did Darth.
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She just wanted to explain that some pirates are good…and ended up saying that all marines are bad.PS: those dwarves are on crack
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Shichibukai are dangerous pirates given amnesty that the government turns a blind eye to because they keep other pirates in check. I have a hard time believing the government or Marines ever considered Doflamingo to be a benevolent ruler, they just turned a blind eye to his antics and neglected to notice the really horrible attrocities he was comitting (probably mainly due to Sugar "erasing" certain people from memories). Basically they let him be and didnt keep a close enough eye on him because of his status, why shouldnt she be upset about that? Even if her thinking isnt completely rational why should she owe the government her trust, especially since it was mainly her own family being affected in all this.
Or maybe they didn't because no complaints were made?
Come on. Citizens themselfs are saying what a great guy Doffy is. They protested when he resigned. Presumably, he didn't do anything openly evil since joining Shichibukai. Keeping survailance on him would be a paranoia, and WG evidently did that anyway.
Or did you forgot Goverment Agents among the toys, along with the marines?
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from the introduction of dofla, sengoku describing him as a scum, and just a few chapters ago, aokiji seemed to know a lot of dofla's past, you are telling me that the WG think he is benevolent …
Sorry my English is not perfect.
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Ironically, Viola started a speech for the same reason as you did Darth.
! http://image.noelshack.com/fichiers/2014/25/1403113067-20140618032529429.png
She just wanted to explain that some pirates are good…and ended up saying that all marines are bad.The principle Pirates are operating on is a bad principle, in this case.
The actions, as whole, cannot be considered bad. But writing off everyone because they are bound by the law… that's simply unfair.
I actually have friends among law enforcers, so it might be that this line of thinking simply strikes a personal note in me. We are all shaped by our experiences, after all.
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By the way, Riku's comment about pirates is quite odd. Didn't he give his daughter's hand to a murderer ?
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Oh yeah, a pirate crew took his daughters and country.
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Then fucking present that like that in the narrative. Don't give me bullshit on Fujitora being in conflict with Dofla, him calling ships to help citizens.
Make him actual authoritarian. Make him machiavellan.
Because what was presented ain't either, so yeah. Tough, but your argument is invalid.
But that's not the point. Fujitora is supposed to be a nice guy, but no one wants him to solve this because he is part of the same institution that is responsible for causing this whole mayhem.
And Fujitora is perfectly aware of this.
By the way, Riku's comment about pirates is quite odd. Didn't he give his daughter's hand to a murderer ?
The same daughter that was kidnapped by pirates?
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Untrue, considering the meeting in Mariejoa, when VA ranking marines had no idea about his skills.
Sengoku had a grasp on the situation pretty quickly. From what we've learned of the World Gov't, they are just as informed, if not more informed than the Fleet Admiral the majority of the time.
And even disregarding that, the citizens themself were happy to have Doflamingo as a king. How exactly does WG goes about trying to depose him in the first place? And why would they? Because Doflamingo possses this power? That's a pretty weak argument.
But they knew he was a pirate previously, surely a 300,000,000 + pirate taking over a nation would've warranted an extensive investigation? Unless of course, you're a Shichibukai, then you get a pass, which just further justifies Viola's train of thought.
They don't have the orders to keep Doflamingo on the throne from the higher ups. It was Fujitora's own decision (which I still say was contrived).
Doflamingo's made it more than apparent that the World Gov't is at his beck and call. Fujitora knows this.
Also, desertion, and then refusal to the direct order from the higher up to go back into the battle. That constitutes for death punishment in real military, even in most of democratic countries. Akainu was not out of line there.
Not to mention that this is one time the soldiers can do what they want. They don't have contact with the top brass. The decision it theirs.
It constitutes a trial. Not a back alley execution. Akainu was more than capable of apprehending said marine without murdering him.
Other actor, but the principle is the same still. They wanted to lynch them, and governing force did not allow it. They might've done so for their own selfish reasons, but it's been done nonetheless, and they would be dead if Doflamingo acted the way they want to act.
I highly doubt either Rebecca or Violet valued being kept hostage/tormented mentally/physically/emotionally over being killed, especially when they thought the rest of their family was dead and they knew the man ruling that everyone loved, was responsible.
(For the record, I'm not trying to be antagonistic, I do highly enjoy debating these points with you.
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from the introduction of dofla, sengoku describing him as a scum, and just a few chapters ago, aokiji seemed to know a lot of dofla's past, you are telling me that the WG think he is benevolent …
I'm asking for open proofs of malevolence on his part since joining Shichibukai. Tangible. One that WG would know about, not you as a reader.
Are there any? Because WG certainly had it's suspicions, if the number of agents among the toys is any indication.
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But that's not the point. Fujitora is supposed to be a nice guy, but no one wants him to solve this because he is part of the same institution that is responsible for causing this whole mayhem.
And Fujitora is perfectly aware of this.
I know, but this line of thinking is flawed. But I need to walk my dog, so I will elaborate in a minute.
That comment was towards dear mister Funk. And his very silly argument.
