Arlong Park Forums

    • Register
    • Login
    • Categories
    • Recent
    • Tags
    • Popular
    • Users
    • Groups

    How much of a typical Shonen do you think One Piece is?

    Manga
    12
    20
    16482
    Loading More Posts
    • Oldest to Newest
    • Newest to Oldest
    • Most Votes
    Reply
    • Reply as topic
    Log in to reply
    This topic has been deleted. Only users with topic management privileges can see it.
    • Aaronrules380
      Aaronrules380
      last edited by
      Aaronrules380
      spiral
      Aaronrules380
      spiral

      Just a topic I've had on my mind today. I feel lik most people consider One Piece an incredibly typical shonen (An extremely well executed one, but still). I mean, it has so many of the typical tropes found so commonly in Shonen. Or does it? As I've been thinking, a lot of aspects of One Piece are way less typical and way more unique than its given credit for. Especially in the realm of today's manga, I feel a lot of aspects of One Piece are way less common than we think. So I've decided to create this thread so that we can discuss in what ways One Piece is a typical shonen action manga, and in what ways it isn't. You can discuss any range of topics related to this issue, but keep in mind that this is mainly not about the quality of the execution, just the nature of the tropes it employs, as well as why it might be that way.

      Personally, one thing I really want to discuss is Luffy as a main character. It's easy to think of Luffy as the really standard Shonen protagonist. After all he's dumb, but a good guy who always stands up for his friends. However, while Luffy does have a lot of the standard traits of a shonen protagonist, I've realized his character type is way less common than you might think. To illustrate this point, I decided to look at the most recent list of ongoing manga in weekly shonen jump. Now before I say anything, how many of these manga do you think have main characters who actually fall under the same or close character types as Luffy? While admittedly there are a few series I haven't read, I feel I'm fairly informed on those I haven't and the answer I found surprised me. From how I see it, NONE of the other series have a character who really falls under the same archetype (Naruto used to, but the character has moved away in a completely different direction at this point with few of the notable traits remaining, and those not being prominent). Now to clarify what I consider Luffy's archetype, I'd consider it to be the idiotic, goofy hero who gets serious when the stakes are up and who constantly seeks out fun and adventure. Another important aspect to Luffy's archetype is that he's also a variant of the delinquent with a heart of gold. He isn't a messiah type character that is often common, since he ultimately acts for smaller, more personal reasons rather than any lofty ideals or goals. Even when Luffy does save a kingdom, it's never because its the right thing to do, but because its what a friend of his wants, or because the villain ticked him off. Luffy's a good person, and he makes friends quickly, so this does tend to get him into those situations a lot, but he's not looking to help as many people as possible.

      Luffy's archetype was definitely more common back when One Piece started, an Luffy himself is notably derived heavily from Goku. But n interesting thing about Luffy is that while his character pulls from common archetypes, it doesn't fall neatly into them either. I mentioned earlier that Luffy was a variant o the delinquent with a heart of gold, and this is true. But he's also very different from other such characters such as Oga from Beelzebub or Yusuke Urameshi from Yu Yu Hakusho. Unlike the typical version of this trope, Luffy really isn't that violent a person. He does seem to enjoy fighting strong guys, and he is quick to fight people when he gets really angry, but unlike most of these types of characters, Luffy tends to avoid fighting weaker opponents and isn't likely to start a fight over his own pride. A key example is him not fighting Bellamy until Bellamy attacked Cricket. Another difference to both that archetype and the typical goku archetype is that what Luffy is really getting excited over is the challenge and adventure rather than the fights themselves. The fights are just an extension of this most of the time, and Luffy seems to derive just as much entertainment, if not more, from running from an angry mob as he does from fighting strong opponents.

      Honestly, I feel like manga is actually shifting away from idiot Luffy like protagonists. Protagonists in modern manga seem to be more often than not at least of average intelligence. Another trend in modern shonen action (Since the archetypes Luffy belongs to have never been that prominent in other genres in the shonen demographic from what I can tell). I also feel like the more successful newer series have been less and less utilizing this character type. This seems strange since the character type was popularized large by Goku due to DBZ's success, and One Piece has been even more successful. But on the other hand, I think it's because One Piece has done so well and Luffy himself is done so well that the character type has become harder to find in modern manga. Readers by nature tend to compare works, so other characters of the same type probably just tend to look bad and generic by comparison. The better writers probably also try to avoid making a character too similar for similar reasons, especially since One Piece is still ongoing.

      Now this isn't to say Luffy doesn't have a lot of typical shonen hero traits. Most notably is stuff like the desire to protect his friends and his magnetic personality. But these traits, while very important to his character are often expressed in more unique ways. For example, when Luffy makes friends with a former enemy, it feels less like an act of forgiveness and more like he really didn't care too much once he blew off his steam and beat them up once. Once he beats up an enemy, he tends to not care about what they do next and thus he doesn't have a hard time making friends with them afterward. The ones he can't forgive are the ones who deeply hurt those he cared about most, like Crocodile, Blackbeard and Akainu (Arlong probably also would fit into this group). The rest are usually just guys who made him upset, but whom he doesn't even tend to remember all that well after the fact. He doesn't make friends with them because he thinks they can become better people, because he's prepared to stop them again if they go bad, or because he feels they're like him. He just doesn't usually care much once he's beat them up and probably doesn't even remember most of the events to well.

      An interesting note is that when I thought of Manga I was reading and which ones had characters similar to Luffy, the first that came to mind wasn't shonen at all. It was Xin from Kingdom, a seinen manga.

      1 Reply Last reply Reply Quote 0
      • MasterKingJC
        MasterKingJC
        last edited by
        MasterKingJC
        spiral
        MasterKingJC
        spiral

        What do you mean by typical shonen?

        Don't you mean "Battle Shonen" since the general shonen demographic is so broad?

        1 Reply Last reply Reply Quote 0
        • desa
          desa
          last edited by
          desa
          spiral
          desa
          spiral

          Luffy is a pretty typical hero. The thing that makes him seems somehow original is that he stayed when usually the hero evolve his world view and priorities with the challenge he face.

          And Luffy was angry at Enel trying to kill everyone just because he can. So he does care about bystanders.

          Aaronrules380 1 Reply Last reply Reply Quote 0
          • Aaronrules380
            Aaronrules380 @desa
            @desa last edited by
            Aaronrules380
            spiral
            Aaronrules380
            spiral

            @desa:

            Luffy is a pretty typical hero. The thing that makes him seems somehow original is that he stayed when usually the hero evolve his world view and priorities with the challenge he face.

            And Luffy was angry at Enel trying to kill everyone just because he can. So he does care about bystanders.

            I'm not saying he doesn't get angry at stuff like that. He does because he is a good person. But I still feel like to Luffy it's more about beating up a guy who pisses him off rather as well as helping his friends (in the case of Enel this would be Conis and Pagaya mostly) rather than because he feels like stopping all evil.

            Also, could you please explain why he's a typical shonen action hero rather than just saying he is? Because saying he is without any further explanation pretty muc stops any ability to discuss further and is generally just a really boring way discuss things. Because I still think people (especially in the west) tend to conceive what a typical shonen action hero is mostly by a few super popular series rather than looking at how common or prevalent the character type is (Because as I pointed out, NONE of the other series in weekly jump have characters that fit into Luffy's archetype, and as an additional note, from the manga I've read in the other major shonen magazines that tends to hold true for them as well)

            desa 1 Reply Last reply Reply Quote 0
            • knceng
              knceng
              last edited by
              knceng
              spiral
              knceng
              spiral

              Luffy is a typical shonen jump's character. You know, those three word…

              1 Reply Last reply Reply Quote 0
              • desa
                desa @Aaronrules380
                @Aaronrules380 last edited by
                desa
                spiral
                desa
                spiral

                @Aaronrules380:

                I'm not saying he doesn't get angry at stuff like that. He does because he is a good person. But I still feel like to Luffy it's more about beating up a guy who pisses him off rather as well as helping his friends (in the case of Enel this would be Conis and Pagaya mostly) rather than because he feels like stopping all evil.

                Also, could you please explain why he's a typical shonen action hero rather than just saying he is? Because saying he is without any further explanation pretty muc stops any ability to discuss further and is generally just a really boring way discuss things. Because I still think people (especially in the west) tend to conceive what a typical shonen action hero is mostly by a few super popular series rather than looking at how common or prevalent the character type is (Because as I pointed out, NONE of the other series in weekly jump have characters that fit into Luffy's archetype, and as an additional note, from the manga I've read in the other major shonen magazines that tends to hold true for them as well)

                Luffy is the typical shonen jump main character because he is the dumb,seemingly weak,yet have a strange charisma and settle all the matters with a mere fight while giving a speech about how hurting his was a bad idea type of character. And lets not forget how even while he's a dumbass when the situation demand it he will find the right thing to do or say.

                Aaronrules380 1 Reply Last reply Reply Quote 0
                • Aaronrules380
                  Aaronrules380 @desa
                  @desa last edited by
                  Aaronrules380
                  spiral
                  Aaronrules380
                  spiral

                  @desa:

                  Luffy is the typical shonen jump main character because he is the dumb,seemingly weak,yet have a strange charisma and settle all the matters with a mere fight while giving a speech about how hurting his was a bad idea type of character. And lets not forget how even while he's a dumbass when the situation demand it he will find the right thing to do or say.

                  Yeah, but as I pointed out, a lot of that stuff is way less common than you' actually think

                  desa 1 Reply Last reply Reply Quote 0
                  • desa
                    desa @Aaronrules380
                    @Aaronrules380 last edited by
                    desa
                    spiral
                    desa
                    spiral

                    @Aaronrules380:

                    Yeah, but as I pointed out, a lot of that stuff is way less common than you' actually think

                    Of course it is a general idea but Naruto, Natsu and Gon fits in pretty well. Ichigo definitely isn't typical. And aside from that profile I don't see what else can go as the typical shonen jump main character. If you got a general idea I would like to see it.

                    Z Aaronrules380 2 Replies Last reply Reply Quote 0
                    • Z
                      ZoroFTW9 @desa
                      @desa last edited by
                      Z
                      spiral
                      ZoroFTW9
                      spiral

                      @desa:

                      Of course it is a general idea but Naruto, Natsu and Gon fits in pretty well. Ichigo definitely isn't typical. And aside from that profile I don't see what else can go as the typical shonen jump main character. If you got a general idea I would like to see it.

                      You do realize that Ichigo is a directly ripoff of Yusuke from YYH who is already a stereotypical cliche "badass" character , right?! And Naruto , Natsu and Gon share the basic idea but their overall personality isn't like Luffy at all nor their personality is fleshed out as Luffy's .

                      desa 1 Reply Last reply Reply Quote 0
                      • Aaronrules380
                        Aaronrules380 @desa
                        @desa last edited by
                        Aaronrules380
                        spiral
                        Aaronrules380
                        spiral

                        @desa:

                        Of course it is a general idea but Naruto, Natsu and Gon fits in pretty well. Ichigo definitely isn't typical. And aside from that profile I don't see what else can go as the typical shonen jump main character. If you got a general idea I would like to see it.

                        Naruto HAD those traits but has mostly abandoned them in favor of the messiah archetype. Gon is somewhat similar, but Gon still feels more like the somewhat Naïve child than a complete idiot like Luffy. Natsu I'll give you. But that's still a very small number of heroes from an incredibly large number of series. As for what is a typical shonen protagonist, I'm honestly not sure if there really is one specific archetype like people tend to think. Common ones include the messiah type hero who tries to bear the world's burdens, loser who is kind and can step up to the plate when needed, Naïve but strongwilled child, delinquent with a heart of gold. But while Luffy has echoes of some of those (as I point out), he really doesn't fit neatly into most archetypes IMO. Anoer thing that stands out about Luffy I he's older than the vast majority of shonen heroes by a few years, but that's less of a big deal

                        Also, yeah this is mostly regarding shonen action series

                        Z 1 Reply Last reply Reply Quote 0
                        • Z
                          ZoroFTW9 @Aaronrules380
                          @Aaronrules380 last edited by
                          Z
                          spiral
                          ZoroFTW9
                          spiral

                          @Aaronrules380:

                          Naruto HAD those traits but has mostly abandoned them in favor of the messiah archetype. Gon is somewhat similar, but Gon still feels more like the somewhat Naïve child than a complete idiot like Luffy. Natsu I'll give you. But that's still a very small number of heroes from an incredibly large number of series. As for what is a typical shonen protagonist, I'm honestly not sure if there really is one specific archetype like people tend to think. Common ones include the messiah type hero who tries to bear the world's burdens, loser who is kind and can step up to the plate when needed, Naïve but strongwilled child, delinquent with a heart of gold. But while Luffy has echoes of some of those (as I point out), he really doesn't fit neatly into most archetypes IMO. Anoer thing that stands out about Luffy I he's older than the vast majority of shonen heroes by a few years, but that's less of a big deal

                          Also, yeah this is mostly regarding shonen action series

                          I wouldn't say that Luffy is a complete idiot . He has been shown as simple-minded character who views the world in really straight-forward manner which is why he has never seen thinking all that much . Oda himself commented that he has created Luffy a really simple and straight-forward character that knows exactly what he wants to do .

                          1 Reply Last reply Reply Quote 0
                          • desa
                            desa @ZoroFTW9
                            @ZoroFTW9 last edited by
                            desa
                            spiral
                            desa
                            spiral

                            @ZoroFTW9:

                            You do realize that Ichigo is a directly ripoff of Yusuke from YYH who is already a stereotypical cliche "badass" character , right?! And Naruto , Natsu and Gon share the basic idea but their overall personality isn't like Luffy at all nor their personality is fleshed out as Luffy's .

                            The basic idea is what makes the typical. If you have to go to the details for sure they will differ since the authors aren't the same, the setting aren't the same and no one like a rip-off.

                            –- Update From New Post Merge ---

                            @Aaronrules380:

                            Naruto HAD those traits but has mostly abandoned them in favor of the messiah archetype. Gon is somewhat similar, but Gon still feels more like the somewhat Naïve child than a complete idiot like Luffy. Natsu I'll give you. But that's still a very small number of heroes from an incredibly large number of series. As for what is a typical shonen protagonist, I'm honestly not sure if there really is one specific archetype like people tend to think. Common ones include the messiah type hero who tries to bear the world's burdens, loser who is kind and can step up to the plate when needed, Naïve but strongwilled child, delinquent with a heart of gold. But while Luffy has echoes of some of those (as I point out), he really doesn't fit neatly into most archetypes IMO. Anoer thing that stands out about Luffy I he's older than the vast majority of shonen heroes by a few years, but that's less of a big dealAlso, yeah this is mostly regarding shonen action series

                            Naruto grew and evolved. But he is one example. He simply grew during the story. Naive airhead stupid are all the same thing but on different level or tone.Luffy is the naive strong will child.Messiah syndrome have become popular? Could you give me some reference please.

                            Z Monkey King 2 Replies Last reply Reply Quote 0
                            • Z
                              ZoroFTW9 @desa
                              @desa last edited by
                              Z
                              spiral
                              ZoroFTW9
                              spiral

                              @desa:

                              The basic idea is what makes the typical. If you have to go to the details for sure they will differ since the authors aren't the same, the setting aren't the same and no one like a rip-off.

                              What i meant was they share some traits but not all of them . And like Aaron said , the only one who is somewhat like Luffy is Natsu . Gon and Naruto don't seem to fit the "simple-minded" archetype all that much . And yea Luffy's basic idea is typical as far as the simple-minded shonen character goes but it's done extremely well and not cliche like Natsu's .

                              –- Update From New Post Merge ---

                              @desa:

                              The basic idea is what makes the typical. If you have to go to the details for sure they will differ since the authors aren't the same, the setting aren't the same and no one like a rip-off.

                              –- Update From New Post Merge ---

                              Naruto grew and evolved. But he is one example. He simply grew during the story. Naive airhead stupid are all the same thing but on different level or tone.Luffy is the naive strong will child.Messiah syndrome have become popular? Could you give me some reference please.

                              Not really . Naruto has hardly shown any real growth on screen that is actually believable . Kishi just throwed away those traits in order for Naruto to become the Jesus of the series .

                              E 1 Reply Last reply Reply Quote 0
                              • E
                                Eisenfisch @ZoroFTW9
                                @ZoroFTW9 last edited by
                                E
                                spiral
                                Eisenfisch
                                spiral

                                I would kinda say that from the ongoing Jump series at least Toriko, Yuma and Oga (although that ended) also are at least somewhat similar to Luffy. I don't think you can say Luffy is not typical, just because not EVERY series has a similar MC.

                                As for Xin, he feels a lot like a Shounen Jump protagonist. I have to say I was even a bit surprised to find out Kingdom was serialized in a seinen magazine. I've only watched the first season of the anime thus far though, so what do I know. I would still put him right alongside all the other characters mentioned in this thread.

                                1 Reply Last reply Reply Quote 0
                                • Robby
                                  Robby
                                  last edited by
                                  Robby
                                  spiral
                                  Robby
                                  spiral

                                  Fairy Tail rips off OP blatantly.

                                  I tried so, so very hard for Natsu to be Luffy.

                                  So hard.

                                  1 Reply Last reply Reply Quote 0
                                  • S
                                    sinreturns
                                    last edited by
                                    S
                                    spiral
                                    sinreturns
                                    spiral

                                    I like how One Piece handles its main cast. Luffy can't do much but he has a crew who can cover for him. This isn't exclusive to One Piece because shows like Hitman Reborn have useless boss characters who have their mafia family to cover for them. They can also go from dumb to serious but IMHO Luffy and his crew do this better. The leader is the channel for collective energy, and that is what seems to exalt Luffy above the individuals in his crew. But the secret of the captain isn't just the power he holds but the power of his crew itself.

                                    1 Reply Last reply Reply Quote 0
                                    • MetaMario
                                      MetaMario
                                      last edited by
                                      MetaMario
                                      spiral
                                      MetaMario
                                      spiral

                                      I've seen some people suggest Luffy is not as stupid as he seems. Yes, we know that he can come up with some ingenious battle strategies, but the theory says that he acts dumb(er) as a means to enjoy the finer things of life, including his adventure.

                                      1 Reply Last reply Reply Quote 0
                                      • E
                                        EndGameRoach
                                        last edited by
                                        E
                                        spiral
                                        EndGameRoach
                                        spiral

                                        @Aaronrules380:

                                        Unlike the typical version of this trope, Luffy really isn't that violent a person. He does seem to enjoy fighting strong guys, and he is quick to fight people when he gets really angry, but unlike most of these types of characters, Luffy tends to avoid fighting weaker opponents and isn't likely to start a fight over his own pride. A key example is him not fighting Bellamy until Bellamy attacked Cricket. Another difference to both that archetype and the typical goku archetype is that what Luffy is really getting excited over is the challenge and adventure rather than the fights themselves. The fights are just an extension of this most of the time, and Luffy seems to derive just as much entertainment, if not more, from running from an angry mob as he does from fighting strong opponents.

                                        1. You've made some great points, but I think Luffy is infact a violent person. His up-bringing was violent, he's pirate who uses his fists to resolve problems, when his confronted with a problem he often immediatly tries to solve it with violence, "I'll kick his ass" being a typical Luffy line. Its more a matter of 'how' violent he is, I'm sure its to a lesser extent than some other shounen characters but still violent nontheless.

                                        2. Luffy does seem to avoid fighting weaker opponents, but his not completly opposed to it either. Weak or not, if you get in his way he'll fight you, he has no qualms with that, he can be very indisicrement. Love that about him.

                                        3. I think not fighting bellamy was more about sticking to the promise he made to Nami (keeping promises is an important virtue to Luffy) it also involved Bellamy makeing his remarks on 'skypiea' and 'era of dreams is over' etc, by not fighting bellamy there was some principle involved in why Luffy took the beating (someone else can probably explain it better)

                                        4. I would agree that Luffy enjoys adventures more than the fights but he alao enjoys fighting too, because what he truely enjoys is achieving his ambitions which involves overcoming obstacles\challenges like out performing your opponent, which admittidly is more Zoros thing but Luffy appears to enjoy it too, being competitive.

                                        –- Update From New Post Merge ---

                                        Nami has some tsundere-like traits many lead female characters have, though popular opinion does not consider Nami as a tsundere character. One piece has some unique aspects, archetype-wise, wish Oda would break-away nami's character from that typicaly shounen approuch, because as it stands I don't really care for her.

                                        1 Reply Last reply Reply Quote 0
                                        • Monkey King
                                          Monkey King @desa
                                          @desa last edited by
                                          Monkey King
                                          spiral
                                          Monkey King
                                          spiral

                                          @desa:

                                          The basic idea is what makes the typical. If you have to go to the details for sure they will differ since the authors aren't the same, the setting aren't the same and no one like a rip-off.

                                          Badass tough schoolguy shonen characters are every bit as cliche as the leading naive idiot. Ichigo is a complete cliche.
                                          Yusuke himself follows in the footsteps of the lead from Slam Dunk.

                                          G 1 Reply Last reply Reply Quote 0
                                          • G
                                            God of Skypeia @Monkey King
                                            @Monkey King last edited by
                                            G
                                            spiral
                                            God of Skypeia
                                            spiral

                                            On the topic of anime cliches, I believe it was mentioned in this thread http://apforums.net/showthread.php?t=35587 , but how many anime do you remember starting with the main character looking out of the window in class, and a weird new girl joins his class which kicks off his adventure.

                                            1 Reply Last reply Reply Quote 0

                                            • 1 / 1
                                            • First post
                                              Last post
                                            Powered by NodeBB | Contributors