@Long:
We'll dig a moat around the wall and fill it with alligators
https://pbs.twimg.com/media/ClGEtkLWMAAoNz6?format=jpg&name=large
Yeah, sure. A pyrrhic victory.
@Long:
We'll dig a moat around the wall and fill it with alligators
https://pbs.twimg.com/media/ClGEtkLWMAAoNz6?format=jpg&name=large
Yeah, sure. A pyrrhic victory.
How you could even describe that as a victory I don't know.
"Congratulations Bush! You've managed to organize removing your head from the oven!"
If I could hazard a guess - does this have to do with Jeremy Corbyn?
Corbyn is a cranky communist who is as overzealous when it comes to principles as the most hardened Bernie Bro. So not really the type of leader you want when you have a party that requires broad coalitions and inevitable concessions.
There's also been an infestation of anti-semitism in the party which found it's dramatic conclusion with Ken Livingstone, former mayor of London, hiding in a toilet after being called a racist.
@Monkey:
This is whats happening over here.
They were fighting each-other big time during the primary (see Trump assaulting the Bush legacy).There was a very brief honeymoon after he got the nomination that is probably what you're thinking of.
But that ended like last week with the "Mexican" judge controversy, and that was the start to where we currently find ourselves. Which is some super bloody water on the GOP side.
https://newrepublic.com/article/134348/donald-trump-turning-wedge-issues-party
"GOP as Iron party" is maybe more of a thing to begin with, since its a defining feature of the modern GOP as formed by Reagan.
Living through the Bush years it was always horrifying just how well oiled and lock step the party was. Internal conflict back then was McCain grumbling slightly lol.
They are completely falling apart.
It is very similar. I'd say the difference is that the Tories are a bit further along in their civil war, at a post-Trump point where the insurgency has already found its way into elected office and half the party is following a populist idiot (Boris Johnson) and fully giving in to blatantly idiotic ideas like a Brexit. And the other half is still religiously following Thatcherite ideology that is becoming less and less popular and will (probably) be beheaded when the UK makes it stupidest mistake ever in 7 days. GOP is at denial/bargaining, Tories are at accepting.
About McCain, right now, it is not popular to bad mouth Obama, Hillary or any other democrat in question ?
Brazilian news:[hide]
Politics
http://riotimesonline.com/brazil-news/rio-politics/brazils-president-temer-linked-to-bribery-scheme/
Zika Virus
https://www.theguardian.com/world/2016/jun/16/three-babies-zika-virus-birth-defects-us
Olympics
https://www.theguardian.com/world/2016/jun/16/brazil-tourism-minister-resigns-weeks-before-olympics
[/hide]
About McCain, right now, it is not popular to bad mouth Obama, Hillary or any other democrat in question ?
It's pretty popular to bad mouth a politician, period. Especially if they're well known. The problem isn't there.
The problem is senselessly blaming a tragedy on a president who could do little to stop it especially with the gun nuts of the country actively organizing to tie the president's hands behind his back on any issue concerning guns.
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-36560416
Former 94 year old guard at Auscwitz has been convicted for 5 years. He was found guilty of being an 'accessory to the murder of at least 170,000 people'.
Five years? I know that's basically a life sentence for him at this point but…only five years?
isis. Is using all remaining civilians in fallujah as human shield and battle is near to its end
About McCain, right now, it is not popular to bad mouth Obama, Hillary or any other democrat in question ?
well there's a lot of things the Prez is "directly responsible" for, but causing a mass shooting because you withdrew troops that somehow would have kept a psychotic murder organization from forming is kinda reaching. Especially considering it was the previous president that ordered the troops to start withdrawing in the first place, an action the senator was seemingly praising only 6 years ago as it happened
Hell I'd say politicians that blocked legislation that would have kept people on the no fly list from buying weapons (because why? People have more right to a gun than food I guess?) were more directly responsible, if we're pointing fingers.
Plus the whole thing where the Bush Administration pushed for the war in the first place and their role in the De-Ba'athification process.
It's pretty popular to bad mouth a politician, period. Especially if they're well known. The problem isn't there.
The problem is senselessly blaming a tragedy on a president who could do little to stop it especially with the gun nuts of the country actively organizing to tie the president's hands behind his back on any issue concerning guns.
well there's a lot of things the Prez is "directly responsible" for, but causing a mass shooting because you withdrew troops that somehow would have kept a psychotic murder organization from forming is kinda reaching. Especially considering it was the previous president that ordered the troops to start withdrawing in the first place, an action the senator was seemingly praising only 6 years ago as it happened
Hell I'd say politicians that blocked legislation that would have kept people on the no fly list from buying weapons (because why? People have more right to a gun than food I guess?) were more directly responsible, if we're pointing fingers.
I didn't said that the press is justified for pointing its finger in a alleged culprit, I made that question because I thought that conservative/right wing ideals and beliefs are in vogue in the media because of the supposed "failure" of the liberal/ left wing administration that conservatives claims.
Brazilian news:
[hide]Politics
http://www1.folha.uol.com.br/internacional/en/brazil/2016/06/1782722-latest-scandal-in-the-ranks-leaves-temer-desperately-searching-for-silver-lining.shtml
Gang rape in Rio de Janeiro
http://www.reuters.com/article/us-brazil-crime-rape-idUSKCN0Z32MN
Mariana incident
http://www.reuters.com/article/us-brazil-damburst-fine-idUSKCN0Z32O2
[/hide]
Part of me is sad, but mostly, I'm surprised. Sad because, as a teen I'd read science mags and knew what's up with space exploration. But that's not true now days and I've obviously been living under a rock and this is first time I've heard of NASA's project for Jupiter' JUNO=
After 5-Year Trek, NASA Spacecraft Juno Prepares For Dangerous Final Stretch To Jupiter
I love how the GOP tries to pretend that Bush didn't sign that agreement when one of the most memorable things from his Presidency happened at that event.
So he actually dodged it, ive never actually scene and assumed he got hit. Skillful manuevers by both of them.
@Long:
So he actually dodged it, ive never actually scene and assumed he got hit. Skillful manuevers by both of them.
0.24+
Sarah Palin blasts President Obama over gun control efforts
President Obama's latest push for gun control is getting some pushback from one of his oldest foes: Sarah Palin. The former vice presidential candidate lashed out at Obama on Facebook Friday, calling him "a special kind of stupid."
Well Palin would know what "a special kind of stupid" is as she is the poster child.
also
12-year old white boys put rope around black female classmate's neck and…
No, no. I refuse to believe this is a real news story.
"If the mother was concerned that bullying was ongoing … would the mother have voluntarily re-enrolled the child?"
I….but...you...
what the actual fuck is this???
I didn't said that the press is justified for pointing its finger in a alleged culprit
You mentioned McCain. His "bad mouthing" was about who was responsible for the shooting. He said the president was "directly responsible" for the events that unfolded. We're not talking about the press or…most people. When talking about the type of people who have the gall to say the president is directly responsible for a mass shooting we're talking about a few people. From this particular angle, no, it's not popular to bad mouth Obama, Hillary, or any other democrat in question because most conservatives aren't dumb and would not say something stupid like that.
I made that question because I thought that conservative/right wing ideals and beliefs are in vogue in the media because of the supposed "failure" of the liberal/ left wing administration that conservatives claims
Depends on what issue you're talking about and what particular media is covering the story. Again, on the issue of who is responsible for a mass shooting, blaming the president isn't going to be popular on any channel. Nope, not even Fox News. There might be the fringe guests who come on and say it and they might even feel more open to say it there because it might be encouraged a little but it won't be popular. Actually, it's more "in vogue" for the media to talk about 'Is gun control so bad?' which is an issue attributed to the liberal cause even though, from what most polling details, most conservatives agree with it (some measures of gun control/restrictions).
And on other issues like the economy (jobs, debt, etc…) and foreign affairs (wars, relationships, etc...) the president, their administration, and their party do get a lot of flak when something goes wrong and it's popular to look at the other side as the ideal alternative, and take their viewpoints as right. Sometimes rightfully so, sometimes not. There's also the debate of, 'Did things even go wrong in the first place?' For example, the Iran nuclear deal but that's going back into particulars. In general, whichever party is in the white house they are seen as in charge and whatever problems befall the nation, more often than not, they take the brunt of blame if there is blame to go around. That's why it is common for the media to make the other side look good as they criticize the party in charge and for the white house to switch parties after one party had 8 years as POTUS.
Side Note: Conservatives actually claim the 'mainstream media' and press are bias towards the Obama administration.
Man, why don't these schools nowadays accept their mistakes?
12-year old white boys put rope around black female classmate's neck and…
No, no. I refuse to believe this is a real news story.
What the literal fuck? I thought this was the 21st Century, not the 1860s.
Is that how Texas generally looks like?
No! While there are some racist peoples there, stuff like that isn't really tolerated by the public. …. at least 7 yrs ago when I lived in the DFW metroplex (which is just north of Waco) it wouldn't have been. There are isolated cases of dipshits, but the general public would give an out cry over such stuff.
The school followed its policies in place at the time when it failed to contact the girl’s mother and has since changed its rules so that officials will automatically alert parents about injuries, Deaconson said.
What kind of dumbass school doesn't already have policies in place to immediately contact the parents of a child involved in a serious incident like this??? Oh lordy me the school's administration is stupid.
What kind of dumbass school doesn't already have policies in place to immediately contact the parents of a child involved in a serious incident like this??? Oh lordy me the school's administration is stupid.
I dunno, the way decisions get made these days, I wouldn't be surprised if it's because they didn't want to "ruin the poor white kids' lives for a mere 20 minutes of action". 20 minutes of Action in THIS case being, nearly lynching a poor girl.
I also love how the school INSISTS this was an accident. I'm sorry but no. That rope mark looks horrifying. You don't get something that bad unless they were intentionally trying to choke her.
Maybe it was a lapse in judgment but that's why you punish the little idiots by expelling them or something so they don't do it again???? Smh
Like who cares why it happened, there needs to be punishment
^ If they were black or Hispanic they would've gotten suspended or expelled and sent in the other direction.
me and my friend were having an argument about this. Someone help me out. I was arguing with a friend that multiculturalism doesn't really exist in many places in the world (specifically europe), i said that it really only exists in a few places like Canada or USA. I'm half European myself so I think i know what im talking about. But I dont believe a successful multiculturalism exists in Europe.
me and my friend were having an argument about this. Someone help me out. I was arguing with a friend that multiculturalism doesn't really exist in many places in the world (specifically europe), i said that it really only exists in a few places like Canada or USA. I'm half European myself so I think i know what im talking about. But I dont believe a successful multiculturalism exists in Europe.
Depends on what you even define as multi-culturalism.
In the general sense it definitely exists much more in the Western Hemisphere. But there are parts of Europe that showcase it too. London comes to mind.
me and my friend were having an argument about this. Someone help me out. I was arguing with a friend that multiculturalism doesn't really exist in many places in the world (specifically europe), i said that it really only exists in a few places like Canada or USA. I'm half European myself so I think i know what im talking about. But I dont believe a successful multiculturalism exists in Europe.
Well, most of the countries there are so very close to each other with only the United Kingdom and Iceland separated by the rest of the others in their own islands. But I guess you can find some level of multiculturalism of Eastern Europe on Western Europe and I also guess you can find some asian influence in some countries? Hell, Turkey is both Europe and Asia last time I checked.
The UK was the first to come to mind. But it's a failed one in other parts of it. In france the hijab is banned, the germans denied turkish immigrants citizenship. Milosevic got tried for war crimes against humanity by inciting ethnic tensions between the Albanians and the serbs.
it's really a unique thing that is only really happening in America and im saying that as a european too. When you say Europe there are many different countries. but it only takes one example to destroy the statement "Europe is multi-cultural".
me and my friend were having an argument about this. Someone help me out. I was arguing with a friend that multiculturalism doesn't really exist in many places in the world (specifically europe), i said that it really only exists in a few places like Canada or USA. I'm half European myself so I think i know what im talking about. But I dont believe a successful multiculturalism exists in Europe.
Depends on what you mean?
If you are saying that European countries aren't multicultural, yeah, they are not definitely. Especially compared to America, a dream place where people from various countries immigrated to and mixed. It will always stay as a symbol of that and will have lots of new immigrants after the ones from previous generations get mixed and so on.
I will never forget this video Zeph once shared.
!
Whereas European countries tried to protect themselves, their national identities and boundaries throughout the history.
On the other hand, if you mean Europe itself not being multicultural, as in European countries' culture not being different from each other. Then you'd be fairly wrong. Every, or at least most of the European countries have their own special gem culture that is individual enough to make the term "The European Culture" too vague. Consider the differences between west, east and north for that. It is true that ones closer to each other might have similar cultures though, but there is definitely enough variety in Europe if you look at it more thoroughly. And it definitely makes me call it "multi-cultural", even if there are not cultures from the outside of Europe involved.
me and my friend were having an argument about this. Someone help me out. I was arguing with a friend that multiculturalism doesn't really exist in many places in the world (specifically europe), i said that it really only exists in a few places like Canada or USA. I'm half European myself so I think i know what im talking about. But I dont believe a successful multiculturalism exists in Europe.
Like MonkeyKing said, I think it depends on what you consider multiculturalism.
Personally I'd say there's no country in Europe that's multicultural in the way the US and Canada is, but there are some cities and towns.
The UK was the first to come to mind. But it's a failed one in other parts of it. In france the hijab is banned
Face covering is banned. Not hijabs. Bigggg difference. Hijabs are just the headscarves.
the germans denied turkish immigrants citizenship.
I don't think thats quite true either. At least not for awhile. Europe does lack jus soli though if that's what you mean.
Milosevic got tried for war crimes against humanity by inciting ethnic tensions between the Albanians and the serbs.
When people discuss and compare Europe and the Americas on this sort of issue, they usually mean Western Europe. Eastern Europe (especially 90's Yugoslavia) are really a whole other region with its own circumstances…not to mention very little immigration (emigration on the other hand...).
Not saying I disagree with the overall idea of what you're saying though.
it's really a unique thing that is only really happening in America and im saying that as a european too.
It's not unique to the US though. Canada, Brazil, Argentina, Chile, Peru and lots of the rest of Latin America also has extremely similar circumstances.
Of course perhaps then you can say "unique to the Americas" or "unique to the Western hemisphere".
And there's reasons for that, which is mostly down to experience and history I think.
The Americas have really long detailed storied experience with immigration, integration, assimilation, and the multi-culturalism that comes with it.
Europe doesn't.
Yes we are made up of immigrants, but we also have and had our own nativisms and resistance to that immigration and cultural mixing.
The big difference comes down to us already having been through this song and dance several times already.
When I look at the sort of things Europeans are posting about immigration and diversity on the internet these days, I see wildly similar cliches of things that we as Americans see in century old political cartoons and things in our history books (and also modern Donald Trump campaign speeches lol).
–- Update From New Post Merge ---
Well, most of the countries there are so very close to each other with only the United Kingdom and Iceland separated by the rest of the others in their own islands. But I guess you can find some level of multiculturalism of Eastern Europe on Western Europe and I also guess you can find some asian influence in some countries? Hell, Turkey is both Europe and Asia last time I checked.
Hey Kage, I had this talk with CaptainUgly before and it was cool. But I feel like the Anglophone world is less aware of how immigrant heavy Brazilian history is, and to some extent Brazilians are less aware even of the American reputation for the same.
Brazil's had lots of distinct immigration waves of all sorts right?
@Monkey:
Hey Kage, I had this talk with CaptainUgly before and it was cool. But I feel like the Anglophone world is less aware of how immigrant heavy Brazilian history is, and to some extent Brazilians are less aware even of the American reputation for the same.
Brazil's had lots of distinct immigration waves of all sorts right?
Yeah, when you talk about immigrantion in Brazilian history, the very first things that comes from my mind are Italy, Germany, Japan and some Arabic countries.( I had a teacher in my High School that was lebanese descedent.) Heck, our Japanese Immigration History is over 100 years old and we even have this big party made by German descedents called Bauernfest that happens every year since 1990.
Yeah, when you talk about immigrantion in Brazilian history, the very first things that comes from my mind are Italy, Germany, Japan and some Arabic countries.( I had a teacher in my High School that was lebanese descedent.) Heck, our Japanese Immigration History is over 100 years old and we even have this big party made by German descedents called Bauernfest that happens every year since 1990.
Hell yes. Immigrant culture comrades 4 lyfe
–- Update From New Post Merge ---
i still find it fuckin bizarre that northern italians went to south america, and southern italians went to north america though, it is funny to me this, like wtf
Not enough love for Saludos Amigos and The Three Caballeros.
If they played The Three Caballeros they might have more love for Mexican-Americans from youth.
@Monkey:
Face covering is banned. Not hijabs. Bigggg difference. Hijabs are just the headscarves.
I don't think thats quite true either. At least not for awhile. Europe does lack jus soli though if that's what you mean.
When people discuss and compare Europe and the Americas on this sort of issue, they usually mean Western Europe. Eastern Europe (especially 90's Yugoslavia) are really a whole other region with its own circumstances…not to mention very little immigration (emigration on the other hand...).
Not saying I disagree with the overall idea of what you're saying though.
It's not unique to the US though. Canada, Brazil, Argentina, Chile, Peru and lots of the rest of Latin America also has extremely similar circumstances.
Of course perhaps then you can say "unique to the Americas" or "unique to the Western hemisphere".
And there's reasons for that, which is mostly down to experience and history I think.
The Americas have really long detailed storied experience with immigration, integration, assimilation, and the multi-culturalism that comes with it.
Europe doesn't.Yes we are made up of immigrants, but we also have and had our own nativisms and resistance to that immigration and cultural mixing.
The big difference comes down to us already having been through this song and dance several times already.
When I look at the sort of things Europeans are posting about immigration and diversity on the internet these days, I see wildly similar cliches of things that we as Americans see in century old political cartoons and things in our history books (and also modern Donald Trump campaign speeches lol).
Eh, france is failed in that though, still. and yes, jos suli is one of those painfully obvious things in Europe that's a massive problem when it comes to immigration. I feel like Europe is one of those places that gives you the illusion that it's multicultural because it allows so many people, and thats a problem even in the UK. even the prime minster has publicly expressed his opinion against multiculturalism. And as a European-American myself having lived in Europe I can confirm many of the horrible problems that plague people who are not part of the ethnic majority born in said country.
I do not buy the whole easter/western Europe thing. I do realize that the difference between Western Europe and eastern Europe is like night and day, but are they not part of Europe? Is milosevic and Serbia not in Europe? Are Albanians, Croats, and non-Serbs Europeans? This would be like making the argument that the Midwest and southern states is not really part of the USA because of how different they are when you compare them blue states of the northeastern and western part of the USA. When you say "Europe" you're automatically making a statement about the whole, so you really can't cherry pick whatever country. With that said, I don't doubt that places like Germany and the UK are probably better off. But northern Scandinavian countries like Norway etc are definitely not multicultural, they are mostly small homogeneous societies.
Anyways, I hope I didn't go too much off stray. You can feel free to drop the discussion if it feels like it doesn't make any sense.
Not enough love for Saludos Amigos and The Three Caballeros.
Did that red chicken even appeared somewhere else?
God, Joe Carioca feels like a completely different character compared to himself in the brazilian comics (in the comics he's as big as Donald around here).
Did that red chicken even appeared somewhere else?
Besides a few comics (mainly in the Sunday pages) and maybe a cameo here or there, no.
Like Jose Carioca, Panchito's a character that basically disappeared in the States by the 50's, but he's gotten more use in the last few decades.
John Oliver explains Brexit stupidity:
I do not buy the whole easter/western Europe thing. I do realize that the difference between Western Europe and eastern Europe is like night and day, but are they not part of Europe?
They are, but they're mostly not a first world developed rich area or for that matter immigration destination. In fact Eastern Europeans would make up many of the immigrants themselves alongside the other world regions.
I mean neither is Latin America for the most part? (actually very similar regions in development regards) But if we're really comparing North America (IE: US and Canada) to Europe, then it would only be fair to compare it to Western Europe. If we add Latin America then sure I guess.
But it still feels extremely strange putting Milosevic in the same context as the modern UK and France lol.
This would be like making the argument that the Midwest and southern states is not really part of the USA because of how different they are when you compare them blue states of the northeastern and western part of the USA.
Regional differences are important. But there's more than region at play with West vs East Europe. Being literally separate countries for one, and hell even large chunks of Eastern Europe still not being part of the EU.
When you say "Europe" you're automatically making a statement about the whole, so you really can't cherry pick whatever country.
You began with "Europe", I adjusted with "Western Europe".
Even so I will concede it being largely fair to discuss modern Eastern Europe since much has changed since the communist period and they're comparable to Latin America as I said.
But I won't concede that talking about 90's stuff like the Yugoslav wars makes any sense.
Putin, Erdogan, and Lukashenko are fair game.
But of course so are Castro and Maduro. And Trump.
But northern Scandinavian countries like Norway etc are definitely not multicultural, they are mostly small homogeneous societies.
I have had the intense misfortune of leaving behind our local friendly Scandinavians like Wolfwood and joining a message board elsewhere that is overflowing with obnoxious racist Nordics, so I have nothing but violent affirmative head nods for this lol.
They have convinced me that parts of Europe are actually really not all that different whatsoever from South Korea and Japan in terms of being sort of hermetically sealed homogenous zones with bizarre martian like xenophobias that honestly comes off sort of socially retarded to me.
Speaking of Trump this is what I've seen there lolll.
Swedish Dude: Man Trump is a nightmare!
Me: Yeah right?
Swedish Dude: Those economic policies are horrible!
Me: Yeah and?
Swedish Dude: So backward on women and gays!
Me: Definitely…and?
Swedish: Yeah!
Me: Yeah.......and?
Swedish: What? Otherwise I'd probably vote for him.
Me: 0_0
--- Update From New Post Merge ---
Not enough love for Saludos Amigos and The Three Caballeros.
If they played The Three Caballeros they might have more love for Mexican-Americans from youth.
I've always wondered about Mexico and immigration (like from the Old World), haven't heard much of it.
But even the smaller poorer Latin American countries will surprise you in their membership of the holy immigrant brotherhood, like Peru had Peruvian-Japanese president in the 90's…(who was an authoritarian shithead) but still! That shit just doesn't happened in richest most socially progressive Europe! And Peru! Friggin' Peru! Did it!
Wanna buy Peru a drink.
Cuz I know Peru ain't gonna start ranting about "BRAVEST NATION IS LITHUANIA, GLORIOUS LITHUANIAN NEVER RUN AWAY FROM CLAY, ANCIENT LITHUANIAN OLDEST LANGUAGE IN WORLD STILL USED".
Saludos amigos indeed.
@Monkey:
I have had the intense misfortune of leaving behind our local friendly Scandinavians like Wolfwood and joining a message board elsewhere that is overflowing with obnoxious racist Nordics, so I have nothing but violent affirmative head nods for this lol.
They have convinced me that parts of Europe are actually really not all that different whatsoever from South Korea and Japan in terms of being sort of hermetically sealed homogenous zones with bizarre martian like xenophobias that honestly comes off sort of socially retarded to me.
Ours is a weird situation. While we certainly do have more of a love for talking about how multicultural and enlightened we are than actually practicing it, with a population that's one fifth rooted outside of the country we sorta do have it by default y'know?
As in that as we've got these layers upon layers of, some more and some less integrated, immigrant groups, that sort of make up a pecking order that's based on who arrived first. Like nowadays even the hardcore nationalist wax nostalgiacly about the good immigrants, those Italians, Greeks and Jugoslavians sure weren't like these terrible new guys, they learned the language and had jobs and stuff. In a small, maybe insignificant, sense i've always felt that this is the kind of a baby steps advance we can look for. That those work immigrants from the 60's with their whacky garlic and mustasches are now deemed as good old Swedes. Sure the Arabs are getting shafted hard right now, but maybe 40 years from now we'll be talking about how nice that immigration wave was compared to these icky Australians or something.
No :sad: I don't want to ever imagine Middle-Eastern culture getting mixed with Northen one. Ever.
I feel so weird about Sweden right now.
Like either they are there separately creating their communities, which is fine.
Or they accept the culture of the county they are living in, which I find so unimaginable.
Or they influence the culture of the country they are living in, which I an referring to above, it's be awful :sad:
No :sad: I don't want to ever imagine Middle-Eastern culture getting mixed with Northen one. Ever.
I feel so weird about Sweden right now.
Like either they are there separately creating their communities, which is fine.
Or they accept the culture of the county they are living in, which I find so unimaginable.
Or they influence the culture of the country they are living in, which I an referring to above, it's be awful :sad:
Oh y'know what they say, the times change and we change with them.
Trying to hold on to some idealized vision of some yesteryear that never really existed is never productive.
That said we've got a dozy of a culture clash that do needs to be adressed.
@Monkey:
But even the smaller poorer Latin American countries will surprise you in their membership of the holy immigrant brotherhood, like Peru had Peruvian-Japanese president in the 90's…(who was an authoritarian shithead) but still!
"Alberto Fujimori" is the most New World name ever.
Ours is a weird situation. While we certainly do have more of a love for talking about how multicultural and enlightened we are than actually practicing it, with a population that's one fifth rooted outside of the country we sorta do have it by default y'know?
To be fair I've gotten less of a sense of that from the Swedes. The Danes and Finns though? Yikes.
Partly telling is they constantly bash and mock on Sweden for this sort of thing.
Being rooted outside the country doesn't necessarily quite count either though, like the largest foreign born population in Sweden is from….Finland. And hell those might even be largely Fennoswedes.
Like if we had a lot of Canadians coming here I wouldn't really count them as part of things.
Like nowadays even the hardcore nationalist wax nostalgiacly about the good immigrants, those Italians, Greeks and Jugoslavians sure weren't like these terrible new guys, they learned the language and had jobs and stuff.
Ah yes, the "model minority".
That or your busy developing a racial sense along American lines and those folks will become part of the "white" main group.
Of course I don't know if they and the Swedes are bullshitting about them being "good" immigrants or not. But trust me even if they were rowdy poorly assimilative criminal sorts? Their descendents and yours will likely develop convenient amnesia about that.
In a small, maybe insignificant, sense i've always felt that this is the kind of a baby steps advance we can look for. That those work immigrants from the 60's with their whacky garlic and mustasches are now deemed as good old Swedes.
Yeah that's how it works.
Scottish-Americans/Scots Irish were the terror of colonial America.
German-Americans were the overly private badly assimilating sort speaking their ugly language.
The Irish were drunken criminal thugs who refused to integrate, and were Catholic.
The Chinese were totally alien socially cut off opium smoking martians.
The Italians were brown Catholic criminal thugs, speaking their crazy language.
Jews were JEWS.
Poles were filthy eastern european miscreants. Also dumb lol! And Catholic.
Latinos of any sort were brown, miserable criminal thugs. Mexicans are also lazy. They're Catholic too but that's less a big deal by now.
And MUSLIMS….well no one gave two shits about that until 9-11, but NOW GRGRGRGRGRGRGRGRGR!!! Scary!
And yes naturally the descendents of each joins the mainstream, and unfortunately also joins the racism often enough.
But with such long experienced history with all this, comes greater general acceptance, and greater ability to beat back the Trumps.
And as I've often said, issues and thoughts on this that are brand new to Europeans, are over a century old here.
Sure the Arabs are getting shafted hard right now, but maybe 40 years from now we'll be talking about how nice that immigration wave was compared to these icky Australians or something.
That's exactly what they will do.
Provided they don't get cleansed out by some Nazi or another.
Of course it helps here that even the most off the Mayflower nativist mega WASP …no matter how hard he tries to forget....no matter how rough and ready he is to be a major xenophobe...no matter what...the elephant in the room stands in the back of the American conscious and gives him a death glare lest he forget what he really is.
–- Update From New Post Merge ---
No :sad: I don't want to ever imagine Middle-Eastern culture getting mixed with Northen one. Ever.
Middle-Eastern culture is cool and very delicious. In ultra-conservative form as we mostly think of it, yeah it sucks horribly.
But welp, that's true of all cultures.
We're all some shade of Japanophile here aren't we? Well I think we can agree that 1930's Japanese culture was a nasty nasty thing.
We all respect Germany too right? Well same decade… and DAMN.
And all of us enjoy American culture no matter where we're from....but we sure don't enjoy Jim Crow, the dying but still breathing uber-religiousity, and the still very much alive deranged capitalism-fetish, or the gun nut militia insanity, or anything else represented by Trump.
Scandinavia sucked too back in the day, and hell on this topic it shows it sometimes still does.
Or they influence the culture of the country they are living in, which I an referring to above, it's be awful :sad:
Ask an Italian person about the negatives associated with southern Italy.About it being a backwards poor rural cliquish mafia haven.
Examine the Italian-Americans now, almost entirely descendents from southern Italy.The immigrant group does not ever remain the same, and is not ever untouched by the local culture.
The only real way that more modern local culture wouldn't invade and effect an immigrant group from somewhere more socially behind…is complete and total isolation from the local culture.
So in reality this..Like either they are there separately creating their communities, which is fine.
Is NOT fine. Its what actually allows the outdated old world things to survive. Bring the Arab family into the main Swedish culture, truly bring them in and the bad things will shrivel up.
Meanwhile maybe the diversity will also shrivel up the Nordic xenophobia in the Swedes in exchange. Seems to have already worked a bit in comparison to their Danish cousins.
Also it will vastly improve their cuisine! 8D
Explosive rotten fish in a can? Naw man, try this grilled meat in bread with some yogurt….trust me.–- Update From New Post Merge ---
@Cyan:
"Alberto Fujimori" is the most New World name ever.
YOU KNOW YOU'RE IN THE NEW WORLD WHEN:
-You want to line up three Greek, Turkish,and Armenian six year olds in your class to be geographically in order. And they don't get the joke, speak newscaster child english anyway, and have no idea their ethnic groups hate each-other!
@Monkey:
They are, but they're mostly not a first world developed rich area or for that matter immigration destination. In fact Eastern Europeans would make up many of the immigrants themselves alongside the other world regions.
I mean neither is Latin America for the most part? (actually very similar regions in development regards) But if we're really comparing North America (IE: US and Canada) to Europe, then it would only be fair to compare it to Western Europe. If we add Latin America then sure I guess.
But it still feels extremely strange putting Milosevic in the same context as the modern UK and France lol.
I think south america is for the most part a shithole. So I don't really care much for it ( so is eastern europe really lol). I wasn't trying to put Milosevic in the same context, but more of a piece of evidence for the lack of such state in Europe. It's not like im talking about nazi germany or something which is more irrelevant since it's a longer ago. But when somebody tried to tell me taht racism isn't that big of a problem in todays world, I quickly pointed to Milosevic and the serbian massacre. Which are all valid points to make. I agree that france is and modern UK are completely different, but I'm not making statement about those countries. France ahs its own problems. And I reckon the Uk is probably better off tahn the rest of europe.
Regional differences are important. But there's more than region at play with West vs East Europe. Being literally separate countries for one, and hell even large chunks of Eastern Europe still not being part of the EU.
Lots of europeans have a tendency to stereotype the USA. Not realizing that each state is like its own country too with its own set of laws and cultures. If someone said there is no racism in America, all it takes is one example where it does exist and it renders. i can't just say but….look at New york or something. Same thing with europe, you can't make a general statement and discard all others.
You began with "Europe", I adjusted with "Western Europe".
Even so I will concede it being largely fair to discuss modern Eastern Europe since much has changed since the communist period and they're comparable to Latin America as I said.
But I won't concede that talking about 90's stuff like the Yugoslav wars makes any sense.
Putin, Erdogan, and Lukashenko are fair game.
But of course so are Castro and Maduro. And Trump.
Sorry, but why those 3 names don''t make any sense. I guess the Belarus guy makes sense. But Russia is not really Europe, and neither is turkey. Milosevic is much more relevant considering he is not even geographically that far from said western European countries. Maduro and castro don't make sense either, they are not in the USA.
I have had the intense misfortune of leaving behind our local friendly Scandinavians like Wolfwood and joining a message board elsewhere that is overflowing with obnoxious racist Nordics, so I have nothing but violent affirmative head nods for this lol.
They have convinced me that parts of Europe are actually really not all that different whatsoever from South Korea and Japan in terms of being sort of hermetically sealed homogenous zones with bizarre martian like xenophobias that honestly comes off sort of socially retarded to me.
That's exactly where I was getting at with japan and korea too. A lot of people don't realize Japans history is on par with nazi germanys, and to this day have a tedency to be racist and xenophobic. And it's also a pretty awful place for women too ( i reckon korean might be too). But the point I'm making is when you really think about it's kind of a rare thing. And no country is obligated to become multicultural either. That's reality really, you might say it's racist or whatever or xenophobic (which are not far from the truth, the latter more than the former), but countries are not obligated to do any of that. They can maintain their sense of identity in the way that japan does. But with japan it is interseting, because they are facing a shortage of young labor force and their population is literally in decline, they will be forced to change in one way or the other.
I think south america is for the most part a shithole.
Not really. Its extremely similar to Eastern Europe in terms of development levels, unless you also consider Eastern Europe to be a shithole.
Only a few countries down there are truly shitholes, like Nicaragua, Paraguay, and especially especially Haiti.
Lots of europeans have a tendency to stereotype the USA. Not realizing that each state is like its own country too
Naw that's not quite true.
There are things we can have laws of our own on, and things we can't. And limitations around the bend.
Its certainly true that regions of the US can vary wildly on some things, and can feel like different countries absolutely. But breaking it down to states, naw. Extremely few states have their own culture. Like Hawaii and….Utah? Heck even Utah's Mormon thing is strongly present in Wyoming and Idaho.
Texas may act unique, but its really not as much as it thinks it is lol.
Then there's states that are bisected into different cultural regions. Like visit New York, and travel from Yonkers to Rochester and its like two different universes. Down near the city its of course the Northeast wider region, and with the specific culture of the New York City area.
Up near Rochester though and welcome to the farthest east lands of the Midwest region.
Sorry, but why those 3 names don''t make any sense. I guess the Belarus guy makes sense. But Russia is not really Europe,
lol come on now. Russia is Europe. Unquestionably. Unless we judge countries solely by proportion of landmass they have in a region.
Like hell New York state! Way more people live in the area defined by the Northeast region than the areas that are more like the Midwest region. But would anyone pretend New York wasn't a state defined by the Northeast? No way Jose.
Russia by every metric EXCEPT geographical proportion is European.
Historically, culturally, population wise, linguistically, religiously even if we want to open that questionable can of worms. Even European in terms of physical appearance if we ALSO want to go there.
Russia is a European country with a really big Asian backyard.
and neither is turkey.
Turkey on the other hand is super arguable. No question there, I understand fully why you're debating this.
But in my view on the whole they have one foot in Europe, and one in the Middle East.
Both at once.
Just like Georgia, Armenia, Azerbaijan and Cyprus. Who also sometimes get counted as European…or Asian depending on who you're asking.
And like Turkey they all have one foot in Europe and one in the Middle East.
I enjoy a fun no hard feelings debate on how to categorize them.
Milosevic is much more relevant considering he is not even geographically that far from said western European countries. Maduro and castro don't make sense either, they are not in the USA.
Geographically schmaphically. Serbia might as well have been on the dark side of the moon compared to Italy and Austria at that point. Same with any former Communist countries during the 90's and during the Cold War.
As for Maduro and Castro…well my point is this.
In the discussion I think we have to pick.
Western Europe vs. North America (and maybe South America's southern cone)
Or all of Europe vs All of the Americas.
Like it just doesn't make sense to me to compare Eastern Europe to the US or Canada.
That's exactly where I was getting at with japan and korea too. A lot of people don't realize Japans history is on par with nazi germanys,
Haha, oh they were extremely awful.
But not Nazi awful. Hitler remains so far out in front with his regime its nice to not see challengers.
The Japanese may have committed horrible horrible war crimes in China and elsewhere, and been conquering the place and others with full intent to rule over them and control their resources?
BUT they never had a plan to starve, murder and ethnically cleanse China of all its natives and replace them with Japanese people. Which is what the Nazis planned for Poland and the USSR.
Nor did the Japanese have a holocaust equivalent.
and to this day have a tedency to be racist and xenophobic. And it's also a pretty awful place for women too ( i reckon korean might be too).
I don't know about awful exactly, but by first world standards yeah. South Korea isn't supposed to be any better on that account (though they have managed to elect a female leader!).
Oddly enough I think China (in spite of being poorer, authoritarian, and having a hell of a last 50 years in comparison) is supposed to be better on the whole for gender roles. Provided one isn't in the sticks.
But the point I'm making is when you really think about it's kind of a rare thing. And no country is obligated to become multicultural either. That's reality really, you might say it's racist or whatever or xenophobic (which are not far from the truth, the latter more than the former), but countries are not obligated to do any of that.
No, but I consider it a sign of modernity. Right up there with women's rights, democracy, and secularism.
They can maintain their sense of identity in the way that japan does. But with japan it is interseting, because they are facing a shortage of young labor force and their population is literally in decline, they will be forced to change in one way or the other.
But if we subtracted foreign cultural influence from modern Japan it would be completely unrecognizable.
Bahrain has stripped a Shia cleric of his citizenship (remember, Bahrain is a Shia majority country), Iran are clearly not pleased with this (A Shia majority nation).'Bahrain has crossed line by stripping Shia cleric of citizenship'.