Did Luffy say "I will be the pirate king" to Doffy ?
Chapter 790: "Heaven and Earth"
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Oda showed us how strong, sharp and powerful the bird cage is many ways .
It's strong and sharp and going with enough force\power to cut the royal plateau , Colosseum and a mountain at the same time.
So it's not something that easy to cut and maybe Zoro can't. -
Ida hasn't shown Zoro trying to cut them, so that's a plot armor right there. There's not excuse for it!
Dressrosa is miles across (exactly how many is unclear, but it seems to be at least several), and the Birdcage surrounds the whole thing. Assume that Zoro can cut through the Birdcage: what is actually accomplished?
If it doesn't compromise the structure of the birdcage, and the strings aren't under some kind of tension that causes them to snap unpredictably when cut, he's opened a tiny hole through which some few people could escape. Unless he's opening a hole like a mile long, it's not enough to significantly impact the situation. And in the worst case scenario, he could send the birdcage strings whipping through the interior of the cage… or bring the whole cage down on the island.
Honestly, it makes a lot of sense to me that, upon grasping the situation, Zoro and Fujitora aren't trying to destroy the cage.
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The first thing Doula did after restarting his fight with Luffy again was hold him with strings and then use his strongest move on him while aiming at his vital points. Is that really an unreasonable thing for him to do? Especially considering that he could barely stand at the time.
I mean, he literally does the opposite of what Crocodile did. And we all thought it was weird how Crocodile didn't really use his power as much as he should have.
Why are you so caught up on the last part of the fighting when my complaint has a lot more to do with what went on pre and during first round of G4?
This time, Doula could confine Luffy because he could barely move. Earlier, it would have been cool if he tried to limit Luffy's movement or make him do what he wants by attacking him in a certain way and possibly distracting him with a clone.
When he kicked Luffy in the face and tied his hands behind him literally in the next moment, that was awesome. It showed Dofla can be insanely fast with his strings and combine the ability with his fighting power to seriously restrict his enemy's movements. After Law did his thing, there isn't anything like that in close combat. Whether Oda got lazy or Dofla couldn't do his thing because his organs were chopped up is as good a question as any, but since there's people here who argue that Dofla hasn't been affected by Law's attack it doesn't seem Oda did a good job conveying how much Law's knife hampered Dofla. I'm sure it made him a little slower, but apart from that, what can I prove?
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Why are you so caught up on the last part of the fighting when my complaint has a lot more to do with what went on pre and during first round of G4?
This time, Doula could confine Luffy because he could barely move. Earlier, it would have been cool if he tried to limit Luffy's movement or make him do what he wants by attacking him in a certain way and possibly distracting him with a clone.
When he kicked Luffy in the face and tied his hands behind him literally in the next moment, that was awesome. It showed Dofla can be insanely fast with his strings and combine the ability with his fighting power to seriously restrict his enemy's movements. After Law did his thing, there isn't anything like that in close combat. Whether Oda got lazy or Dofla couldn't do his thing because his organs were chopped up is as good a question as any, but since there's people here who argue that Dofla hasn't been affected by Law's attack it doesn't seem Oda did a good job conveying how much Law's knife hampered Dofla. I'm sure it made him a little slower, but apart from that, what can I prove?
It makes no sense saying that because someone else can just say suppose luffy did this and give ideas .
Why did luffy not go gear 4 when he was caught or why did luffy not do something else
You are going to end up going down the rabbit hole of if and that never helps .TLG , FFVIIR and Shenmue 3 2015 the E3 of dreams .
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It makes no sense saying that because someone else can just say why did luffy not go gear 4 when he was caught or why did luffy not do something else
You are going to end up going down the rabbit hole of if and that never helps .Except Luffy went all out while Dofla was capable of more than he had shown. In my eyes anyway. That's the difference.
Besides, with G4 draining Luffy like that, he has to pick the moment he's going to use it very carefully, because if he doesn't finish off his opponent with it, he's dead meat. Using it before a strong opponent is already somewhat fatigued makes no sense, the way it is now anyway.
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Except Luffy went all out while Dofla was capable of more than he had shown. In my eyes anyway. That's the difference.
Besides, with G4 draining Luffy like that, he has to pick the moment he's going to use it very carefully, because if he doesn't finish off his opponent with it, he's dead meat. Using it before a strong opponent is already somewhat fatigued makes no sense, the way it is now anyway.
Luffy did not go all out because going all out means gear 4 and even then in this chapter we see that he has another level in gear 4 .
Thanks to the time skip we have no idea how far luffy has really come .As soon as don get hit with law attack he could have done gear 4 but instead he keep on fighting while wasting haki and stamina with his other moves .
TLG , FFVIIR and Shenmue 3 2015 the E3 of dreams .
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Luffy did not go all out because going all out means gear 4 and even then in this chapter we see that he has another level in gear 4 .
Thanks to the time skip we have no idea how far luffy has really come .As soon as don get hit with law attack he could have done gear 4 but instead he keep on fighting while wasting haki and stamina with his other moves .
Can't be sure if Luffy has more than what he's shown, but it's possible. Or maybe it's work in progress.
As for the second paragraph, no arguments there. There was too much watching and waiting with Trebol as the worst offender. But don't get me started on Trebol, disappointment of the arc. And you know it's saying something when you're talking about the arc where Diamante and Pica also fought, ugh.
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Can't be sure if Luffy has more than what he's shown, but it's possible. Or maybe it's work in progress.
As for the second paragraph, no arguments there. There was too much watching and waiting with Trebol as the worst offender. But don't get me started on Trebol, disappointment of the arc. And you know it's saying something when you're talking about the arc where Diamante and Pica also fought, ugh.
I agree there i like the luffy and don fight but the other fights could have been much better .
This is the first arc that luffy get push some what but other character still not get that type of fight yet. -
Yeah, or Zoro simply failing to cut them.
But then, the cage has already survived a lot of things. Zoro not being able to cut it shouldn't be that surprising.
He didnt show Zoro failing either. The cage has survived a lot of thing? A meteor, a Mashvice and?
Why not? Strings tend to be vulnerable to burning too, but that didn't stop the Birdcage. Dunno why cutting can't be the same.
That meteor felt like butter getting cut by a hot knife.
Because cutting it is not the same as throwing a piece of rock from space on it?
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Still Zoro was shown failing to push it by his swords and even asked for help from Kinemon and Kanjuro. I think it is heavily implied that Zoro is powerless to cut it.
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Dressrosa is miles across (exactly how many is unclear, but it seems to be at least several), and the Birdcage surrounds the whole thing. Assume that Zoro can cut through the Birdcage: what is actually accomplished?
If it doesn't compromise the structure of the birdcage, and the strings aren't under some kind of tension that causes them to snap unpredictably when cut, he's opened a tiny hole through which some few people could escape. Unless he's opening a hole like a mile long, it's not enough to significantly impact the situation. And in the worst case scenario, he could send the birdcage strings whipping through the interior of the cage… or bring the whole cage down on the island.
Honestly, it makes a lot of sense to me that, upon grasping the situation, Zoro and Fujitora aren't trying to destroy the cage.
Comunication is the most important thing in this scenario, If one person can get out or place their den den mushi through that small hole Zoro opened (hypothetically), things will change drastically.
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Comunication is the most important thing in this scenario, If one person can get out or place their den den mushi through that small hole Zoro opened (hypothetically), things will change drastically.
They will? With a few minutes until the cage killed everyone, placing a den den mushi through the hole would change things? I guess someone could arrive faster to collect the corpses, but other than that…
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People also seem to be forgetting that the strings are moving forward with tremendous force .
It's not like zoro trying to cut something that stationary or dull it's like 2 swords clashing together .
For zoro to cut the strings his swords have to be stronger or sharper or both.
You also have to take force into account and we all know the cage moving with more force\power than zoro. -
@'T€:
@$;3489487']Still Zoro was shown failing to push it by his swords and even asked for help from Kinemon and Kanjuro. I think it is heavily implied that Zoro is powerless to cut it.
About time, a thing zoro can't cut.
Fans have been going wild about how strong he could be. Well, we have a limit, thank you Oda.
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Seriously, Birdcage going away can't come soon enough. It's like we're in endless loop of same complaints and same arguments and counter arguments.
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Replace every instance of "Birdcage" in this thread with "Fujitora" and we'll be back where we were two months ago.
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Are you all aware of the fact that if Zoro tried to cut them his sword would probably be cut as everything who came in contact with birdcage so far did? He does know that, hence he doesn't even try.
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This time, Doula could confine Luffy because he could barely move. Earlier, it would have been cool if he tried to limit Luffy's movement or make him do what he wants by attacking him in a certain way and possibly distracting him with a clone.
But he did that before setting up the Birdcage.
Oda is not going to draw the same strategy over and over even if it made sense plotwise. Imagine if in every chapter of the fight, Luffy had to spend time destroying one or two clones. There's just so much comics can show.
What matters is that Luffy was able to destroy a clone and free himself with not much effort. That was enough to show that those tactics wouldn't be as effective again.
When he kicked Luffy in the face and tied his hands behind him literally in the next moment, that was awesome. It showed Dofla can be insanely fast with his strings and combine the ability with his fighting power to seriously restrict his enemy's movements. After Law did his thing, there isn't anything like that in close combat. Whether Oda got lazy or Dofla couldn't do his thing because his organs were chopped up is as good a question as any, but since there's people here who argue that Dofla hasn't been affected by Law's attack it doesn't seem Oda did a good job conveying how much Law's knife hampered Dofla. I'm sure it made him a little slower, but apart from that, what can I prove?
Because by the time Law had done his thing, Luffy went Gear 4th, which pretty much outclassed Doula's regular arsenal. This is why Doula had to go Awakening.
Sure there was a small skirmish before those events, but Doula had the upper hand anyway (until Gear 4th).
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Are you all aware of the fact that if Zoro tried to cut them his sword would probably be cut as everything who came in contact with birdcage so far did? He does know that, hence he doesn't even try.
He literally uses his sword to push it…haki-embedded.
People complaining about missing the Sunny-team.
It´s not like they were enterily absent from this arc and also we might get a great payout, once we see them again, where the story might focus on them a bit.
Also Sanji had quiet some scenes during Dressrosa (being on Dressrosa and Viola-stuff, plus fighting Doffy)
They might have been absent for over a year in weekly chapters, but less than a few hours in real time.
So in a few years when people will read the volumnes, nobody will have that issue anymore i would assume. -
Is this the 20th chapter discussion that devolved into BIRDCAGE OP NERF, HURR DURR ITS NOT OP ZORO COULD CUT IT IF HE TRIED …
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@Cyan:
Replace every instance of "Birdcage" in this thread with "Fujitora" and we'll be back where we were two months ago.
Two days ago, didn't you see them complaining about Fujitora two days ago? xD
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So the birdcage is the new punk hazard door around these parts!? XD
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Luffys Kong punch reminded me of the lightning coming down from the sky when Buggy was about to execute him. Similar in a way, both done by the D!
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Luffys Kong punch reminded me of the lightning coming down from the sky when Buggy was about to execute him. Similar in a way, both done by the D!
Personally, with Doffy's Spider Web there it reminded me more of Whitebeard's cracking the sky the first time we saw his Tremor powers in action.
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Seriously, Birdcage going away can't come soon enough. It's like we're in endless loop of same complaints and same arguments and counter arguments.
I don't even have it in me to fight anymore.
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Last page, top left panel, I can't make out what it is. Can someone explain please.
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The thing I don't understand about the complaints of birdcage is that it doesn't even matter if it's indestructible or not. If it was able to be cut, what purpose does cutting it serve if that it would only endanger the people you cut it open to save? If there was one certainty this arc, it is that Doffy had no intentions of letting anyone survive/be remembered on the island once birdcage went up. It is his last hope to keep everything a secret, he would not take an opening in it lightly. It created great tension for new readers of the series who are unaware that Oda does not kill people. Sure for you, people who dissect it on a weekly basis would love to see Zoro cut an opening, stave off Doffy at the hole until Luffy catches up and the final battle continues. But, then what sense would it make for Doffy to just fight Zoro while ignoring the people ten feet away who are free to use Den Den Mushi's and expose all he did to cover the incident up? He's not the type of villain to allow that to happen and Oda is not the author to kill people for the sake of a cool showdown. Instead, making the cage "indestructible" allowed him to build tension while keeping people alive. It also added the benefit of occupying characters while showing off Luffy's growth and just how much an obstacle Doffy was to overcome and what awaits us in the future.
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The thing I don't understand about the complaints of birdcage is that it doesn't even matter if it's indestructible or not. If it was able to be cut, what purpose does cutting it serve if that it would only endanger the people you cut it open to save?
The problem is we don't know what happens when the birdcage gets cut because Oda never bothered to explain.
There are many suggested ways Oda could have explained the birdcage.
It gets cut with a lot of effort but instantly regenerate itself.
It gets cut with massive effort and shrinks faster to close the hole.
One string gets cut with massive effort and it snaps threatening the civilians
etc etc….But nope we get nothing. We must fill the holes and it's annoying when so much powerful people just push the cage without anyone trying or even thinking about the what cutting it would mean.
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The problem is we don't know what happens when the birdcage gets cut because Oda never bothered to explain.
There are many suggested ways Oda could have explained the birdcage.
It gets cut with a lot of effort but instantly regenerate itself.
It gets cut with massive effort and shrinks faster to close the hole.
One string gets cut with massive effort and it snaps threatening the civilians
etc etc….But nope we get nothing. We must fill the holes and it's annoying when so much powerful people just push the cage without anyone trying or even thinking about the what cutting it would mean.
Which nobody really gives a shit about aside from people who can't seemed to leave fantasy elements the way they are .
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So guys. What do you think is the chance of a flashback starting next chap? Doffys face lies in the dirt, maybe he recalls his shitty past and decisions.
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The problem is we don't know what happens when the birdcage gets cut because Oda never bothered to explain.
But we do know through the nature of Doffy's character. If an opening is made and people manage to escape before it is sealed, they WILL be killed by Doffy. It's the entire point of the birdcage. To keep knowledge of the incident contained on the island. That's an incredible risk when the only people who would be able to cut it know Luffy and Fuji are their only hope anymore.
Lets say a few people escape. They're still on an island. The guy who has them trapped in the cage can fly. Birdcage would close in an hour. How far can you possibly sail in an hour?
Unless.. do people think if the birdcage got cut Doffy would have no way of replacing a fraction of the strings he created? Is that really what Oda needs to show us? "I know he can turn buildings into strings.. but can he remake a couple birdcage strings?"
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At least it does kill unlike ShiNoKuni…or not!
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But we do know through the nature of Doffy's character. If an opening is made and people manage to escape before it is sealed, they WILL be killed by Doffy. It's the entire point of the birdcage. To keep knowledge of the incident contained on the island. That's an incredible risk when the only people who would be able to cut it know Luffy and Fuji are their only hope anymore.
Lets say a few people escape. They're still on an island. The guy who has them trapped in the cage can fly. Birdcage would close in an hour. How far can you possibly sail in an hour?
Unless.. do people think if the birdcage got cut Doffy would have no way of replacing a fraction of the strings he created? Is that really what Oda needs to show us? "I know he can turn buildings into strings.. but can he remake a couple birdcage strings?"
Well people in this part of the forum tend to not use their imagination for obvious stuff …..........
--- Update From New Post Merge ---
So guys. What do you think is the chance of a flashback starting next chap? Doffys face lies in the dirt, maybe he recalls his shitty past and decisions.
I would love it if there is another Doffy flashback.
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I've enjoyed Dressrossa. A bit too long, but the content has been good. Happy to see what's next, though. Like others, I'm hoping for Wa No Kuni before long.
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Why the fuck is it "unbreakable"? But no… For da drama just push it all the time.
For me it's the worst plot device ever
It was ok if an Admiral was not there…
Inviato dal mio GT-I9300 con Tapatalk 2
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@Doffy.:
Which nobody really gives a shit about aside from people who can't seemed to leave fantasy elements the way they are .
You never really understood the purposeof this forum. But it's hilarious to see you trying to stir up shit.
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Things I observed:
1. Luffy is strong as shit. He would easily 1v1 Flamingo and beat him if they were both fresh. Luffy fought plenty of randoms and fought Don Chinjao as well, got very blooded by Bellamy before he even got to Flamingo. His King Kong Gun didn't look like all of what Luffy can do, and that attack is immensely powerful. We have rarely seen any strength destruction feat like that in the manga. If Luffy actually hit the ground with that attack it wouldn't surprise me if a large portion of the entire island was destroyed. The force of Luffy destroying Doflamingo's strongest attacks and then pummelling Doflamingo's body to the ground was what caused the impact, not Luffy's actual fist. Also that was the equivalent of a Gear 3 Pistol/Rifle in Gear 4. Luffy didn't even use Gatling…There's no reason to suggest he couldn't, or that this attack is a one time move by Luffy. The flashback with Rayleigh was while he was still with Luffy. At this time Luffy already had Kong Gun and Gear 4 and developed King Kong Gun shortly thereafter. Rayleigh said Luffy needed something more. Luffy had a further 6 months at least on the island himself so I'm sure he has Gear 5 or something crazy up his sleeve. I think he's ready to take on an Admiral or clash with a Yonkou (not saying he will win or anything), but it seems unlikely to me there would be any further training time skips with Luffy's tremendous level of power at the moment.
2. Flamingo's bird cage is very strong. It's a special move performed with prep time and using the string clone. It's not like his normal strings and is incredibly strong. Zoro hit the birdcage with force with his blackened swords as clearly shown in the panel with a large explosion of force. Zoro could not cut the cage. If he could he would. Admiral Isshou decided to help in the pushing, knowing that everyone was relying on Lucy, including him (whom he placed a bet on) to beat Flamingo as he didn't want to get involved as a Marine in the removal of this Shichibukai. This would obviously put his future goal of the removal of the Shichibukai system at risk and he clearly stated his position to Flamingo. I do believe if Luffy failed Ishou would step in and use his full powers to attempt to stop the birdcage.
3. I really enjoyed this Arc, one of my favourites. So much fun things happened and the issues most of the people have here on this forum don't seem to bother me or aren't even issues to me. I caught up reading weekly with One Piece just after Sabody.
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I wonder if Law will attempt to kill a prone Doffy in the next chapter or two?
_"_Now! This is it! Now is the time to choose! Die and be free of pain or live and fight your sorrow! Now is the time to shape your stories! Your fate is in your hands!" - Auron
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A broken Doffy begs Law to kill him and Law says "The weak don't get to choose how they die…" :happy:
That would be epic! But I do hope he is totally unconscious.
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A broken Doffy begs Law to kill him and Law says "The weak don't get to choose how they die…" :happy:
That would be pretty cool, but I could never imagine Doffy begging to be killed tbh.
He'd take his massive ego and sense of self worth all the way to the afterlife for sure.
_"_Now! This is it! Now is the time to choose! Die and be free of pain or live and fight your sorrow! Now is the time to shape your stories! Your fate is in your hands!" - Auron
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That would be pretty cool, but I could never imagine Doffy begging to be killed tbh.
Begging, certainly not. He might however encourage Law to deal the finishing blow, "be a man and finish what you started, listen to the bloodthirst in your heart, man lives for blood yada yada". We've seen before how Doffy likes to bring out the worst in people.
To which Law would of course reply the above and that after all, he'd much rather see Doffy live through Hell, pursued by both the WG and his former clients -
still hoping for to doffy to escape (or taken by a family member, just like moria) just so he can get stomped by kaidou. it will be a proper introduction for kaidou, how he easily destroy doffy when law and luffy need the whole country to help them.
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Begging, certainly not. He might however encourage Law to deal the finishing blow, "be a man and finish what you started, listen to the bloodthirst in your heart, man lives for blood yada yada". We've seen before how Doffy likes to bring out the worst in people.
To which Law would of course reply the above and that after all, he'd much rather see Doffy live through Hell, pursued by both the WG and his former clientsThat would be quite a change for Law after he's sacrificed himself multiple times just for a chance at Doffy being killed.
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Thinking about what might come next iam also favouring Wano Kuni now, to have some breathing air before the first yonkou and the tea party and the reverie(when the SHs ain´t involved there, because the Sunny group might end there somehow) could take place.
Also before going against a yonkou it could be a possibility to face an admiral next or the last unknown shichibukai.
Facing an admiral might be strenght-wise almost the same as facing a yonkou, so not sure about that, but i hope we won´t get some random NW-pirat first, especially with all the shit teasing us.Unrevealed_Loki/Rocks/Im-san_
IslandElbaf/Raftel/GodValley
UnresolvedWeevil´s plan/Explaining DFs/Deal with Kuma-Bonney´s past/Joy-Boy/Zunisha´s story/Rocks flashback/Void Century/Rioponeglyph/Uranus/the D.clan
DFWind/Metal/Acid/Liquid/Time-Stop
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A broken Doffy begs Law to kill him and Law says "The weak don't get to choose how they die…" :happy:
I put my bet on Law taking Doflamingo's hearth. That way Law can kill him anytime he wants, thus that line might still work.
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@Don:
Thinking about what might come next iam also favouring Wano Kuni now, to have some breathing air before the first yonkou and the tea party and the reverie(when the SHs ain´t involved there, because the Sunny group might end there somehow) could take place.
Also before going against a yonkou it could be a possibility to face an admiral next or the last unknown shichibukai.
Facing an admiral might be strenght-wise almost the same as facing a yonkou, so not sure about that, but i hope we won´t get some random NW-pirat first, especially with all the shit teasing us.I hope you realize there's a good chance Wano arc = Kaido arc.
I'd give anything for an adventure on some weird island, without top players of the world involved in any way.
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I just hope that the country named Wa isn't on the island named zO
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