Funny how it seems people find Rebecca easier to spot than Nami, myself included
To be honest, i didn't recognise Rebecca from her distict characteristics of her face, but from her expression. It's not that long ago since we read that chapter~
Funny how it seems people find Rebecca easier to spot than Nami, myself included
To be honest, i didn't recognise Rebecca from her distict characteristics of her face, but from her expression. It's not that long ago since we read that chapter~
I'd agree, although I'll add a few have one or two marks that differentiate them, but still look similar for the most part.
Are you talking about the men I mentioned, or the faces of this thread?
But yeah, some degree of differentiation is possible for the non-old women demographic; its just a shame that it boils down to "the yelashes are so and so, the lips are a tiny bit fuller, the pupils are different" etc.
As opposed to "well, pretty much everything is different", when comparing men.
It's not as if I can't pick out, let's say, Monet from the others, but like… Do you understand how sad this would look, if you had a chart with all the male faces and compared the two?
I mean, the fact that we can make a guessing game out of it...
I guess the conclusions we were able to draw from this guessing game are the total opposite of each other.
For me, it was able to show that Oda doesn't draw most females with a "Nami face" and that he gives different variations to their facial features, subtle as they may be.
For you, it showed that they basically look similar and the variations aren't enough to satisfy you.
To each his own, I say. Or in this case, it's her own. :)
The fine details like shape of eyelashes or lips are indeed there - well done Oda. But the proportion between eyes and nose is usually very similar, eye corners usually land in same distance from nose and sides of face and moth is usually in the same point between nose and chin. Furthermore, what is not visible if we have only eyes, nose and mouth, is that nearly all of these characters have very similar shape of face (save changes in style). What I'm saying is basically that most of female faces are build on the fame frame. Adding the fact that most of those women have same body type…
I agree with your observations. It seems like Oda has this basic outline of how he wants his females to look like and then just finish it with varying details.
I'm satisfied with the minute variations Oda gives us. Sadly, it's not the case for everyone.
I guess what I'm mainly disagreeing with here is the critique some of the people I see here have been throwing out. That Oda gives most female characters the "Nami face" and even adds that we aren't able to distinguish them when you remove their more noticeable features (like hair).
As I've said above, the conclusion I was able to draw from this game is that Oda does put effort into making his female characters unique. He may not be the best at it but the effort is still there and there's always room for improvement.
I wonder what 21 is???
But seriously, cool thread. Really interesting to see a lot of the women's faces side by side like this, as it's become a significant discussion point when it comes to Oda's art.
Now for my guesses
! 1. Alvida
2. Bonney
3. Shyarley
4. Monet
5. Robin
6. Hina
7. Baby 5
8. Makino
9. Violet
10. Nami
11. Tashigi
12. Cavendish
13. Perona
14. Kaya
15. Cindry
16. Hancock
17. Kalifa
18. Nojiko
19. Rebecca
20. Shakky
21. Ivankov
22. Marguerite
23. Keimi
24. Shirahosi
25. Conis
26. Otohime
27. Vivi
28. Porche
I guess the conclusions we were able to draw from this guessing game are the total opposite of each other.
For me, it was able to show that Oda doesn't draw most females with a "Nami face" and that he gives different variations to their facial features, subtle as they may be.
For you, it showed that they basically look similar and the variations aren't enough to satisfy you.
To each his own, I say. Or in this case, it's her own. :)
I second this.
Well, Oda admitted somewhere, that he can't draw women as well as he can draw men. But still, keeping same frame for female face is a bit lazy, considering he can do better than that, and we know it.
The fact that we are able to distinguish by facial expression goes to Oda's credit thought. It shows how obviously characters differ in personalities and emotional responses. That's great thing, but again, that wouldn't be needed if the actually by having different faces, not same face with different make-up (and that's how many faces look like).
I was surprised how different Califa looks from the others. I've never noticed that in the manga.
I'm satisfied with the minute variations Oda gives us. Sadly, it's not the case for everyone.
I guess what I'm mainly disagreeing with here is the critique some of the people I see here have been throwing out. That Oda gives most female characters the "Nami face" and even adds that we aren't able to distinguish them when you remove their more noticeable features (like hair).
As I've said above, the conclusion I was able to draw from this game is that Oda does put effort into making his female characters unique. He may not be the best at it but the effort is still there and there's always room for improvement.
See, those two things are what doesn't add up. Because the variances are indeed minute, the design effort on Odas part is massively inferior to his male characters. Just do a quick glance at the cast of Dressrosa; Elizaberro, Lao G, Dagama, Bartolomeo, Bluegilly, Tank, Ideo, Cavendish, Sai, Boo, Funk Bros, Trebol, Diamante…the differences are immediate and striking.
With young women, you need to get into the details of the angle of the jaw, the shape of the eyebrows, the precise size of the mouth, and so on. And I think its a bit naïve to think that Oda makes a determined effort to measure Violets lips as just a bit thicker than Nojikos, for the sake of design diversity.
@The:
Are you talking about the men I mentioned, or the faces of this thread?
But yeah, some degree of differentiation is possible for the non-old women demographic; its just a shame that it boils down to "the yelashes are so and so, the lips are a tiny bit fuller, the pupils are different" etc.
As opposed to "well, pretty much everything is different", when comparing men.
I was talking about the faces in this thread
@The:
See, those two things are what doesn't add up. Because the variances are indeed minute, the design effort on Odas part is massively inferior to his male characters. Just do a quick glance at the cast of Dressrosa; Elizaberro, Lao G, Dagama, Bartolomeo, Bluegilly, Tank, Ideo, Cavendish, Sai, Boo, Funk Bros, Trebol, Diamante…the differences are immediate and striking.
But that's the "drawing women who are not old ladies" problem over again, isn't it? One Piece's old, ugly ladies generally look just as different as the men. It's the attractive women who look so similar. Likewise, barely any of the male characters you mention are supposed to be attractive (Cavendish may be an example, though I'm not sure if he instead is there to poke fun of the bishonen style) - cool, ugly, funny, weird, badass, you name it, but not hot.
You could of course say it's a problem that Oda intends for so many of his women to be sex on legs, but it's a bit unfair to compare these women to all the Dressrosa characters who are generally designed for other purposes.
How about we took (as has been proposed) the male characters that are considered good-looking in a collage? I may be terribly wrong about who these characters are, but my guesses are something like the following (based on who seems to attract fangirls and who look most normal): Luffy, Zoro, Sanji, Smoker, Law, Crocodile, Pauli, Ace, Shanks, Yorki, Mihawk, Kohza, Lucci, Wiper, Kuro, (young) Rayleigh, (post-growth spurt) Coby, feel free to add more… Will they be anywhere near as different-looking as the characters you mention? More different-looking than the girls, granted, but they will still have similar noses, mouths and often eyes...
@The:
See, those two things are what doesn't add up. Because the variances are indeed minute, the design effort on Odas part is massively inferior to his male characters. Just do a quick glance at the cast of Dressrosa; Elizaberro, Lao G, Dagama, Bartolomeo, Bluegilly, Tank, Ideo, Cavendish, Sai, Boo, Funk Bros, Trebol, Diamante…the differences are immediate and striking.
With young women, you need to get into the details of the angle of the jaw, the shape of the eyebrows, the precise size of the mouth, and so on. And I think its a bit naïve to think that Oda makes a determined effort to measure Violets lips as just a bit thicker than Nojikos, for the sake of design diversity.
I have a feeling we're just gonna end up talking in circles here.
I have acknowledged several times that those variations are subtle and hard to pin point so I won't be arguing about that. What I'm aiming at is that there should be recognition that Oda does indeed put an effort into varying his female characters' designs, may they be way inferior to the effort he puts into the male characters or not.
And as I've said, it's enough to satisfy me, personally, but I know that it isn't the case for everyone else here.
Also, as DarkFalcon have pointed out, Oda, himself, has admitted to this weakness. The fact that he can admit to it, for me, speaks volumes.
But proportion of "normal looking" people to "weird looking/old/ugly" people is very different among male characters and female characters. Among women, most characters are young(ish) and pretty, among men only selected few are young or handsome.
I have a feeling we're just gonna end up talking in circles here.
I have acknowledged several times that those variations are subtle and hard to pin point so I won't be arguing about that. What I'm aiming at is that there should be recognition that Oda does indeed put an effort into varying his female characters' designs, may they be way inferior to the effort he puts into the male characters or not.
And as I've said, it's enough to satisfy me, personally, but I know that it isn't the case for everyone else here.
Also, as DarkFalcon have pointed out, Oda, himself, has admitted to this weakness. The fact that he can admit to it, for me, speaks volumes.
Except a lot of these aren't probably things Oda is doing constantly, and a lot have way more to do with expressions than the face itself. Like, I'm sure if I looked hard enough I could find panels where ones who are more distinct in these shots are pretty much identical. Or do you honestly believe Oda is keeping track of thick each character's lips should be or the exact length of their eyelashes or shit like that? Not to mention a bunch of this is probably just due to Oda's artstyle changing over time in general, so early characters are a bit more distinguishable from later ones
Except a lot of these aren't probably things Oda is doing constantly, and a lot have way more to do with expressions than the face itself. Like, I'm sure if I looked hard enough I could find panels where ones who are more distinct in these shots are pretty much identical. Or do you honestly believe Oda is keeping track of thick each character's lips should be or the exact length of their eyelashes or shit like that? Not to mention a bunch of this is probably just due to Oda's artstyle changing over time in general, so early characters are a bit more distinguishable from later ones
I can throw those questions right back at you and I reckon you won't be able to say with 100% certainty that he does not do these things.
The thing is, we both can't say how deliberate it is in Oda's part to make these variations present in the characters. Only Oda knows the answers to those questions.
I think what we should be asking are these instead:
**_Do you notice the different and distinct features his characters have?
Are these differences enough for you to be able to say they are unique on their own?_** See, the second question is the tricky one and is down to our personal preferences. It's subjective. We can't really argue what's right and what's wrong because it all comes down to opinions and we are all equally entitled to that.
Also, as DarkFalcon have pointed out, Oda, himself, has admitted to this weakness. The fact that he can admit to it, for me, speaks volumes.
Or he could try recreating Amazon Lily on the rest of the world.
!
hint: few of this ladies have very distinct faces without falling into ugly category.
That may be not as great variety as among men, but it's something. It's not like he can't. The lack of diversity is underwhelming, because we know that he is able to pull it off.
Y'know…this was a cool and pretty fun idea for a thread at first, but now it's quickly beginning to seem like a repeat of the clusterfuck of clashing opinions that was the "Portrayal of Women in OP" thread.
Can't say I never saw it coming, though...
Where's Ponzu and Kiwi?
Or he could try recreating Amazon Lily on the rest of the world.
!
hint: few of this ladies have very distinct faces without falling into ugly category.
That may be not as great variety as among men, but it's something. It's not like he can't. The lack of diversity is underwhelming, because we know that he is able to pull it off.
See, the fact that you can give the women of Amazon Lily as examples of how Oda is able to show variations in his female characters is already a testament to how Oda is capable of giving the women unique characteristics.
Who's to say he won't be that creative in conceptualizing his female characters in the future? Only time can tell.
It's like people here are using this one arc as the basis and are completely disregarding all the other female characters he has created over the years. That's a bit unfair, innit?
See, the fact that you can give the women of Amazon Lily as examples of how Oda is able to show variations in his female characters is already a testament to how Oda is capable of giving the women unique characteristics.
Who's to say he won't be that creative in conceptualizing his female characters in the future? Only time can tell.
It's like people here are using this one arc as the basis and are completely disregarding all the other female characters he has created over the years. That's a bit unfair, innit?
I don't think you understand the point of critique here.
Oda is not using his full creative capacity, when creating female characters.
How about we take this discussion to this thread instead? http://apforums.net/showthread.php?t=30903
I don't think you understand the point of critique here.
Oda is not using his full creative capacity, when creating female characters.
I think I understand fairly well what you're getting at here. :)
And my answer to that is in the post that you quoted.
Yeah, we'll just be talking in circles here.
I apologize for ruining this wonderful thread with my evidently unpopular opinion.
Hopefully, other people can post about their answers and opinions to make this thread fun again.
You guys are nerds.
As the most casual liker of One Piece this was an absolute impossible test other than stuff like Ivankov and Perona.
@Holy:
You guys are nerds.
As the most casual liker of One Piece this was an absolute impossible test other than stuff like Ivankov and Perona.
You know what's nerdy? Not only being able to remember the faces, but also the panels FrankyFan took them from… >_>
Pretty sure the same goes for Silverblade, considering that he does a lot of AP tournament-poster related stuff.
I got:
Bonney
Sharley
Monet
Robin
Perona
Ivankov
Camie
Shirahoshi
Otohime
Porche
I correctly guessed: Bonney, Shirley, Monet, Robin, Rebecca, Perona, Ivankov, Shirahoshi
I incorrectly guessed: Vivi (I thought she was Nami) and Otohime (I thought she was Ivankov's female form)
I forgot about Alvida's and Hina's existence until I saw the answers list for the faces. Hina in particular is a very forgettable character.
But that's the "drawing women who are not old ladies" problem over again, isn't it? One Piece's old, ugly ladies generally look just as different as the men. It's the attractive women who look so similar. Likewise, barely any of the male characters you mention are supposed to be attractive (Cavendish may be an example, though I'm not sure if he instead is there to poke fun of the bishonen style) - cool, ugly, funny, weird, badass, you name it, but not hot.
You could of course say it's a problem that Oda intends for so many of his women to be sex on legs, but it's a bit unfair to compare these women to all the Dressrosa characters who are generally designed for other purposes.How about we took (as has been proposed) the male characters that are considered good-looking in a collage? I may be terribly wrong about who these characters are, but my guesses are something like the following (based on who seems to attract fangirls and who look most normal): Luffy, Zoro, Sanji, Smoker, Law, Crocodile, Pauli, Ace, Shanks, Yorki, Mihawk, Kohza, Lucci, Wiper, Kuro, (young) Rayleigh, (post-growth spurt) Coby, feel free to add more… Will they be anywhere near as different-looking as the characters you mention? More different-looking than the girls, granted, but they will still have similar noses, mouths and often eyes...
It is true that theres men who are drawn to be attractive, and will tend to look more similar.
But as DarkFalcon mentioned, the problem is that if you're a woman of note in OP below Kokoro/Jora/Amazone age, then odds are extraordinarily high you will fall into the "young and pretty face" category. Add to that the lower amount of women in general, and the Namiface just becomes that more noticeable.
Somebody should submit this as one of the puzzles you occasionally see in printed volumes… Maybe it'll get through to print somehow and Oda takes the hint.
Wow, that was hard. I got most of them right though, but that was usually because I could tell from the expression. I actually even figured Tashigi, Nami, Hancock and Violet out from that, the ones who gave me trouble were Vivi, Rebecca, Kaya and Makino.
I wonder how much tougher this would be if it was the same faces, only with Shakky-style lips edited out
Oh! It's the eyebrows! I just noticed there's hardly any variety in them. Lol. I couldn't figure out why this was harder for me than it should be.
I only got Bonney, Shirley, Robin, Hancock, Baby 5, Violet, Perona, Cindry, Nojiko, Ivankov, Marguerite, Camie, Shirahoshi, Otohime, and Porche right. 15 out of 28….neat, roughly half.
On one hand this is a pretty fun and challenging game.
On the other, it's slightly unnerving because it empathizes how little variation Oda has in his female designs (barring obvious ones like Perona and Otohime). No need to go into this, since everyone knows.
On the other hand….I bet if you used the "looser" early volume designs, guessing Kaya and Makino would be cake!
On the other other hand….it's both hiliarous and very creepy to see all the face templates all lined up together.
Wow I got all of them right except Cavendish and Marguerite…wasn't expecting that at all.
We need one with all the female characters, that'll be fun haha
Actually faces like Perona's ans Otohime's are only easy to guess as eyes are drawn in very different, easily distinguishable way. But these faces still have same basic structure as most others.
On one hand this is a pretty fun and challenging game.
On the other…
On the other hand…On the other other hand…
!
I apologise, but this thread needs more exposure.
Also, I'm still kind of waiting for the male version of Guess-The-Face.
I apologise, but this thread needs more exposure.
Also, I'm still kind of waiting for the male version of Guess-The-Face.
That wouldn't be fun at all. It'd be as challenging as guessing Perona and Porsche's face on this list.
It would still be interesting to see the comparison. (to the female faces.)
It would still be interesting to see the comparison. (to the female faces.)
It would tell us nothing other than what we already know….
Oda sucks at drawing diverse looking women whereas he excels at drawing diverse looking men. We don't need a pointless comparison to tell us that. ANYONE that's been reading OP should know that after a few chapters (or heck a single crowd panel can show us that).
(unless you want to play some benign game of guess the "nose" or "finger" or something.)
Kaku has the best nose.
Dellinger might have the worst fingers.
I only confused Vivi with Makino and got the rest right.
My attempt:
Kalifa, Baby 5,
! 1. Alvida (thought it was Whitey Bay) CORRECT
2. Bonney CORRECT
3. Shyarly CORRECT
4. Monet CORRECT
5. Robin CORRECT
6. Hancock CORRECT
7. Baby 5 CORRECT
8. Nami - Well fuck me sideways I just proved a point…
9. Hina CORRECT
10. Rebecca - Yup. Point proven. Shoosh.
11. Tashigi w/e glasses CORRECT
12. Violet CORRECT
13. Perona CORRECT
14. Vivi CORRECT
15. Shakky CORRECT
16. Cindry CORRECT
17. Kalifa CORRECT
18. Makino CORRECT
19. Nojiko CORRECT
20. (I lol'd hard) Cavendish CORRECT
21. female!Ivankov CORRECT
22. Margarine CORRECT
23. Caimie CORRECT
24. Shirahoshi CORRECT
25. Conis CORRECT
26. Otohime CORRECT
27. Kaya CORRECT
28.Usopp's mosseurPorsche CORRECT
Probably horrifically wrong…
EDIT: I'm amused because the two I got wrong was the main reason this thread was made lmfao.
hh i actually got couple right i just couldn't remember their names for some reason..
oh and that ivankov.. :p
I couldn't get Otohime right because I forgot her name.
At a glance I thought you had Nami with various facial expressions.
Instead of guessing really hard, I tried to answer it base on first impression.
That's mean these character has distinguishable feature.
! 2. Jewelry Bonney
3. Madam Shirley
4. Monet
5. Robeen
7. Hina
12. Violet (mainly because her "worry face")
13. Perona
15. Shakky
16. Cindry
17. Califa
18. Makino
21. Ivankov
22. SHaky
23. Camie
24. Shirahoshi
26. Otohime
28. Porche
so #7 is Baby 5 (facepalm). It's Hina with red lipstick.
Surprisingly it's really hard to find Boa, Nami, and Vivi. To take that they are the main character that appeared more often than others..
Credit to Perona and Porche. Unique but remains beautiful.
Semi-necro but I just found this and this thread deserves a bump anyway.
My results:
! 1-Nojiko
2-Bonney
3-Shyarly
4-Monet
5-Robin
6-Hancock
7-Baby 5
8-Hina
9-Kalifa
10-Nami
11-Tashigi
12-Violet
13-Perona
14-Rebecca
15-Shakky
16-Cindry
17-Alvida
18-Kaya
19-Conis
20-Cavendish
21-Ivankov
22-Marguerite
23-Keimi
24-Shirahoshi
25-Makino
26-Otohime
27-Vivi
28-Porche
19/28 Correct
I'm surprised how many people managed to get near-perfect results. I spent at least 30 minutes on this and kind of had to default on a lot of my last answers. Also surprised how many distinguishing characteristics I did know. Going to share this with a friend and laugh at his results.