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    One Piece Mafia: Part III

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    • T
      Tyrano
      last edited by
      T
      spiral
      Tyrano
      spiral

      Good thinking there, Space, with the active/passive role theory.
      It does fit.

      So… do you guys see the advantage from mass-claim today?

      --- Update From New Post Merge ---

      With all the actions you took and so on.

      --- Update From New Post Merge ---

      Also, Wooden, considering the possibility of a Mafia member being sort of a "mine" that when you target him/her at night the result is that you die, don't you see the advantage in telling us who Foolio targetted last night?

      --- Update From New Post Merge ---

      Of course, I'm assuming you and the rest of 3rd party has a quicktopic to discuss who you guys are gonna target for the night. (@Wooden)

      3DS Friend Code: 3196 - 6799 - 6143

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      • Gerri
        Gerri
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        Gerri
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        Gerri
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        I don't see the advantage of a mass-claim yet but I'm willing to let the other players chime in on that. As of now, don't proceed in that direction.

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        • Wooden_Giraffe
          Wooden_Giraffe
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          Wooden_Giraffe
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          I'll say who Foolio targeted as soon as Holy and Huschel admit to being altered or not altered(no lying you bums)

          Gerri 1 Reply Last reply Reply Quote 0
          • T
            Tyrano
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            Tyrano
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            But don't you think at this point the only ones hiding stuff are Mafia?
            Perhaps… your current vote is the hint to that?

            3DS Friend Code: 3196 - 6799 - 6143

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            • Huschel
              Huschel
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              Huschel
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              @Gerri:

              Huschel. Before you disappear can you shed some light on your voting behavior that Harvady highlighted yesterday towards the end. Istill have to do the same but at least I'll be around..

              I can do it now, hopefully. You are talking about this, right?

              @Harvady:

              Huschel: benjamminbrown was voted seven times. Nectar was voted eight times. Mrs. Iceburg was voted nine times. The only person to vote all three of these people was Huschel. On post #1444 he states his desire to 'go along with Nectar'. He voted Nectar earlier in the day as a pressure vote. At that point Nectar's wagon was three votes in. More pressure seemed unnecessary, but I suppose that can be debated. At #1537 he exasperatedly claims he's forced back onto Nectar. It's a sharp change. He's willing to put benjamminbrown at L-2 with no explanation, but NOW it's too sketchy to stick around.

              Guess what? His return to Nectar's wagon makes it L-2! Not good enough? His final switch to Mrs. Iceburg? EEELLLL-TWOOOOOO-SOMEBODY STOP THIS MADMAN!

              But I digress. Huschel's always aware of the count when he votes, he puts wagons where they can be completed without actually being invested in them.

              Thank for giving post numbers. I had to look this up to remember my own thoughts.

              I voted benjammin first because I didn't see the 3rd party as an immediate threat at the time. I didn't actually think that they had converted as many people as they already had. I was willing to see if Nectar's target was legitimate. Then I didn't like the way Nectar was playing (not reponding to my inquiries) and as a (self)confirmed 3rd party that was enough reason to want to see his flip. Which carried on to the following Day. In the end I voted for Mrs. Iceburg of course. Because Nectar was not going to happen and I had no reason to trust her either. I didn't think her flip would reveal a lot but she might just as well have been mafia. So I was okay with that train.

              I like to make sure I don't accidentally lynch somebody. And while I'm at it I might as well tell people how many votes have been cast.

              @Wooden:

              So Holy and Huschel, is it safe to assume you two have not been altered?

              I haven't received any PM since game start.

              @Mass claim: I don't know. I feel like personally, I can claim whatever power I want and I won't be targeted by the mafia next Night. If people feel like they're already in danger I guess a claim wouldn't hurt. We have enough to go on right now that a mass claim isn't really necessary though.

              How original is it to still have this in my signature 6 years later?

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              • Gerri
                Gerri
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                Thanks. Why do you think you won't be targeted by the mafia the next night?

                Why do you think we have enough to go on right now, even though what we have to go on right now makes you one of the most likely lynch targets?

                –- Update From New Post Merge ---

                Why did you feel inclined to answer to Nectar's question to Tyrano that you love to post in your quicktopic during the day? Were you starting to feel too safe? Was it going to be your proud moment to go back to after the game?

                --- Update From New Post Merge ---

                Ah, Harvady is here. To answer your question. I had stated before changing my vote to Mrs.Iceburg that I would vote Ben or Iceburg, i.e. follow the third Party method. I initially voted Ben despite being more interested in Mrs. Iceburgs flip and already referencing the fact that Ben was very keen of bringing the Option of lies up repeatedly. Her vote on Nectar right after trapped pointed out that it doesn't really need more pressure votes and the way it seemed like she just jumped in made me change my vote. I saw no reason to change it even after she provided her reason and all the less with the later confirmation regarding Ben's lying.

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                • Outerspec
                  Outerspec
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                  Listen up folks. Would it make sense that there are only 2 Mafia members? Holy and Huschel are Mafia members or it's one of them and someone else. If a Mafia member somehow slipped through the cracks and is faking alteration we'll find him. We have powers we can use. Use them.

                  We can lynch Huschel or Holy. Ben is still also up for grabs but I'm sticking with Huschel because I like the odds. Who's it going to be?

                  Everything's Eventual…

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                  • H
                    Harvady Alumnus
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                    Harvady Alumnus
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                    This is quite a development. Mafia's died and a bulletproof robot has died.

                    At this point I don't want anyone else talking about their power or speculating on each other's roles. This is grossly inappropriate fishing that is unnecessary with our now large advantage. I was seriously sweating yesterday. After doing a bit of math, I determined that town was guaranteed to lose this game if the third party was a threat in the same vein as the mafia. Thankfully there are mechanics in place to prevent our undoing. It's called 'all threats' for a reason.

                    Mafia wouldn't kill themselves. Third party can't kill. Town killed mafia through some power that must not be elaborated on. Robots wouldn't kill themselves. Mafia uses bullets. Town killed a robot through some power that must not be elaborated on.

                    If we assume three and three for anti-town groups, that makes nine alive with three threats left. If people want to 'follow the robot' then you need some damned consistency. More than one person lied about being converted. Everyone who claims after someone else can just use the claims of others. Town needs to come to a consensus.

                    Question to everyone: Do you believe what the Robots said about not being able to convert mafia? Are you convinced that people with powers are 'clear'?

                    Wooden_Giraffe has claimed being the last Robot. No one has counter-claimed him. It doesn't make for a good mafia move. The real robot would CC and we'd lynch them. It should be fine to believe his claim. Keep in mind, that robots are threats to town, we will have to lynch him eventually. (Unless we get another night like last night.)

                    We don't want a Robot today. We want another mafia. The best way to do this is to go over Kubihige's posts.

                    As I say that, I read Huschel's post and I have to say this: @Huschel:

                    In the end I voted for Mrs. Iceburg of course. Because Nectar was not going to happen and I had no reason to trust her either. I didn't think her flip would reveal a lot but she might just as well have been mafia. So I was okay with that train.

                    I like to make sure I don't accidentally lynch somebody. And while I'm at it I might as well tell people how many votes have been cast.

                    @Huschel:

                    Nectar [5]: benjamminbrown, Harvady, Mrs. Iceburg, Kubihige, Huschel
                    benjamminbrown [4]: Nectar, OuterSpec, Tyrano
                    Mrs. Iceburg [5]: Gerri, trappedolphin, Foolio, SpaceCowboy, Wooden_Giraffe
                    So this is where we are then. Great. I'm not convinced either way and it's 5 vs. 5.I guess I'll make it 6-4.
                    Unvote. Vote Lynch: Mrs. Iceburg

                    Nectar was at six votes. Wooden_Giraffe jumped off Nectar as soon as he had the chance, because he was Nectar's partner. It was tied at five and YOU made Mrs. Iceburg's wagon six. We were set to vote a non-townie and you jumped. Nectar's lynch "was going to happen" and Mrs. Iceburg could have lived. But you decided to push a wagon that you say "wouldn't reveal a lot", when we all knew that Nectar's flip would.

                    Vote Lynch: Huschel

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                    • Gerri
                      Gerri
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                      I agree. Chill. We still have 47 hours and Harvady and Ben haven't even posted yet. It's especially because we are done to only two players (+Ben) that we should take our time during the day, as well.

                      –- Update From New Post Merge ---

                      That was directed at Outerspec.

                      --- Update From New Post Merge ---

                      Harvady: you sound determined. What do you think about Holy? Is he next on your list. And if you ask question to everyone, how about answering the (same) question(s) to everyone, as well…

                      Also, I think we are at L-2. I would appreciate not ending the day in a rush.

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                      • H
                        Harvady Alumnus @Outerspec
                        @Outerspec last edited by
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                        @Gerri:

                        Why did you feel inclined to answer to Nectar's question to Tyrano that you love to post in your quicktopic during the day? Were you starting to feel too safe? Was it going to be your proud moment to go back to after the game?

                        Hey it's Nectar 2.0.

                        @Gerri:

                        Ah, Harvady is here. To answer your question. I had stated before changing my vote to Mrs.Iceburg that I would vote Ben or Iceburg, i.e. follow the third Party method. I initially voted Ben despite being more interested in Mrs. Iceburgs flip and already referencing the fact that Ben was very keen of bringing the Option of lies up repeatedly. Her vote on Nectar right after trapped pointed out that it doesn't really need more pressure votes and the way it seemed like she just jumped in made me change my vote. I saw no reason to change it even after she provided her reason and all the less with the later confirmation regarding Ben's lying.

                        She voted Nectar because she wanted him dead. People aren't forthcoming with their roles-and they shouldn't be. People who are trying to use the diction of moderator messages are scummy because they are trying to circumvent searching for evidence in order to get their lynches. It's no different than fake-claiming guilty reports. I said that your D3 voting was very different from your D2. Why were you so on board with Nectar's plan?

                        @Outerspec:

                        Listen up folks. Would it make sense that there are only 2 Mafia members? Holy and Huschel are Mafia members or it's one of them and someone else. If a Mafia member somehow slipped through the cracks and is faking alteration we'll find him. We have powers we can use. Use them.

                        We can lynch Huschel or Holy. Ben is still also up for grabs but I'm sticking with Huschel because I like the odds. Who's it going to be?

                        Who has said there are only two? Do YOU think that town thinks there are only two? I'm pretty sure all of town were all already on board for more than two.

                        Outerspec, is there a difference in lying as opposed to omission?

                        Outerspec Gerri 2 Replies Last reply Reply Quote 0
                        • Outerspec
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                          @Harvady: I don't see why the Robots would lie about something like that. They were trying to use the system of 'Who's alterated and who's not alterated' to hunt down Mafia. They want them out of the way just as much as we do. If they could alter Mafia that whole system would never have worked.

                          Everything's Eventual…

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                          • H
                            Harvady Alumnus @Gerri
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                            Harvady Alumnus
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                            @Gerri:

                            Harvady: you sound determined. What do you think about Holy? Is he next on your list.

                            I originally had Holygamer999 as the lurker of my scumteam. A lot of things have changed. Kubihige fits nicely as the lurker of the scumteam, but that doesn't mean that there isn't another. It's entirely possible that Holy is in it with Kubi. I want to know what Holy thinks about suspects, because he hasn't been around. His initial post goes a way towards finding scum, we should see if there are any omissions in his report.

                            And if you ask question to everyone, how about answering the (same) question(s) to everyone, as well…

                            This is terrible logic. I am not going to answer my own question(s) before other people do. It defeats the very purpose of asking the question. It would make my question rhetorical, in which case I would have the answers and wouldn't need to ask for them.

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                            • Outerspec
                              Outerspec @Harvady Alumnus
                              @Harvady Alumnus last edited by
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                              @Harvady:

                              Who has said there are only two? Do YOU think that town thinks there are only two? I'm pretty sure all of town were all already on board for more than two.

                              Just making sure that idea doesn't slip into anyone's mind because I'm pretty sure if I spell out the situation as it is it won't hurt anyone.

                              Outerspec, is there a difference in lying as opposed to omission?

                              A lie is a lie. An omission is a half-truth. The difference is in the eye of the one who receives it. What are you looking for, Harvady? Do you have something to say?

                              Everything's Eventual…

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                              • H
                                Harvady Alumnus @Outerspec
                                @Outerspec last edited by
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                                Harvady Alumnus
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                                @Outerspec:

                                @Harvady: I don't see why the Robots would lie about something like that. They were trying to use the system of 'Who's alterated and who's not alterated' to hunt down Mafia. They want them out of the way just as much as we do. If they could alter Mafia that whole system would never have worked.

                                So what about the second half of that question? Are you convinced that people with powers are 'clear'?

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                                • Gerri
                                  Gerri @Harvady Alumnus
                                  @Harvady Alumnus last edited by
                                  Gerri
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                                  @Harvady:

                                  Hey it's Nectar 2.0.

                                  Lol

                                  And another Player who doesn't give a %&# who questions are addressed too. Funny.

                                  @Harvady:

                                  She voted Nectar because she wanted him dead. People aren't forthcoming with their roles-and they shouldn't be. People who are trying to use the diction of moderator messages are scummy because they are trying to circumvent searching for evidence in order to get their lynches. It's no different than fake-claiming guilty reports. I said that your D3 voting was very different from your D2. Why were you so on board with Nectar's plan?

                                  I saw it's potential. You seem to be on board with it now.

                                  @Harvady:

                                  Who has said there are only two? Do YOU think that town thinks there are only two? I'm pretty sure all of town were all already on board for more than two.

                                  Are you convinced that there is more? Is that already the answer to your own question? Why rely on a method that doesn't get you all the way?

                                  –- Update From New Post Merge ---

                                  @Harvady:

                                  I originally had Holygamer999 as the lurker of my scumteam. A lot of things have changed. Kubihige fits nicely as the lurker of the scumteam, but that doesn't mean that there isn't another. It's entirely possible that Holy is in it with Kubi. I want to know what Holy thinks about suspects, because he hasn't been around. His initial post goes a way towards finding scum, we should see if there are any omissions in his report.

                                  This is terrible logic. I am not going to answer my own question(s) before other people do. It defeats the very purpose of asking the question. It would make my question rhetorical, in which case I would have the answers and wouldn't need to ask for them.

                                  What I meant you asked the same question that I already asked before (among others) and I would ask you to answer them, as well. Obviously, that also means I'm not going to answer yours.

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                                  • H
                                    Harvady Alumnus @Outerspec
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                                    Harvady Alumnus
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                                    @Outerspec:

                                    A lie is a lie. An omission is a half-truth. The difference is in the eye of the one who receives it. What are you looking for, Harvady? Do you have something to say?

                                    People have made a lot of claims. There aren't a lot of ways to confirm them. I want to know if you are going to "follow the robot". You said: @Outerspec:

                                    If a Mafia member somehow slipped through the cracks and is faking alteration we'll find him. We have powers we can use. Use them.

                                    It is as if you are preparing for the last of the mafia NOT to be found among those without alteration, while simultaneously advocating the truth of the claims.

                                    =======================

                                    Okay, hang on. We (Gerri, Outerspec, and myself) are just posting over each other. I'm going to give it a wait before I respond to more.

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                                    • Outerspec
                                      Outerspec
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                                      It's because I'm convinced that the people who say they've been altered so far are clear (except for Ben). In fact, I've been pretty clear that I've always been suspect of Ben despite his claim of alteration, so if we don't catch the Mafia between Huschel or Holy's death then ny #1 suspect would be Ben.

                                      Also, can you clarify what you mean by "follow the robot"?

                                      Everything's Eventual…

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                                      • T
                                        Tyrano
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                                        Tyrano
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                                        Were you converted, Harvady?

                                        3DS Friend Code: 3196 - 6799 - 6143

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                                        • H
                                          Holygamer999
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                                          Back. So looking at Huschel's response, he came to the same conclusion I did that at least one "claimed" person is mafia. I was waiting for his response to see if he acknowledged this, because if he didn't it would of shown him to be pushing for my lynch despite the fact that I could (and am) be town. But I digress, as that did not happen.

                                          Anywho, I'd be lying if I said that I didn't suspect Huschel of being mafia, but I'm even more scared by the possibility that he isn't; not because of the potential mislynch (which would be bad in it's own right) but because that would mean there are two mafiosos running around in the "claimed" bin. At least one is, and leaving out the "code crackers" (space, gerri, and tyrano) and the wooden giraffe leaves ben, outer, and harvady. Harvady is the least suspicious to me as his actions have always seemed geared towards the town's benefit; Then again he does always play like this. Ben and outer I don't know very well, but have done some shifty things in the past with ben especially so. I guess the short answer is that I suspect Huschel, Ben, and Outer pretty evenly.

                                          Also, I'm still a plain vanilla townie.

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                                          • T
                                            Tyrano
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                                            Oh wait, my previous post was directed at Holy, not Harvady…
                                            Too many players with "H" lol.

                                            Okay so both Holy and Huschel claims not converted.

                                            --- Update From New Post Merge ---

                                            Any comments on that Wooden_Giraffe?

                                            3DS Friend Code: 3196 - 6799 - 6143

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                                            • B
                                              Bogart @Bogart
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                                              LYNCH STATUS: With nine players, it takes five votes to lynch.
                                              Wooden_Giraffe [1]: Tyrano
                                              Huschel [3]: Wooden_Giraffe, Outerspec, Harvady Alumnus
                                              Not Voting [5]: Holygamer999, Gerri, benjamminbrown, Huschel, SpaceCowboy

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                                              • Outerspec
                                                Outerspec @Holygamer999
                                                @Holygamer999 last edited by
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                                                @Holygamer999:

                                                Back. So looking at Huschel's response, he came to the same conclusion I did that at least one "claimed" person is mafia. I was waiting for his response to see if he acknowledged this, because if he didn't it would of shown him to be pushing for my lynch despite the fact that I could (and am) be town. But I digress, as that did not happen.

                                                Anywho, I'd be lying if I said that I didn't suspect Huschel of being mafia, but I'm even more scared by the possibility that he isn't; not because of the potential mislynch (which would be bad in it's own right) but because that would mean there are two mafiosos running around in the "claimed" bin. At least one is, and leaving out the "code crackers" (space, gerri, and tyrano) and the wooden giraffe leaves ben, outer, and harvady. Harvady is the least suspicious to me as his actions have always seemed geared towards the town's benefit; Then again he does always play like this. Ben and outer I don't know very well, but have done some shifty things in the past with ben especially so. I guess the short answer is that I suspect Huschel, Ben, and Outer pretty evenly.

                                                Also, I'm still a plain vanilla townie.

                                                Lol, how are you going to leave out the code crackers as the least suspicious but not me? I'm the one that provided the code to crack. I do not agree with Harvady's assessment that using what's in your PMs to your advantage is scummy because as far as I can tell that's all a part of the game. To discern who's scum or not by whatever inventive means. As long as you don't quote PMs verbatim of course.

                                                Harvady doesn't have the text though so maybe that's why he's against it? He might think PM related posts are a waste of time but its what he used to show his own alteration. Paraphrasing what's in his text. Anyway, I'll be out at a wedding for most of the day so I won't be on for most of Today.

                                                Everything's Eventual…

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                                                • Gerri
                                                  Gerri @Wooden_Giraffe
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                                                  @Wooden_Giraffe:

                                                  I'll say who Foolio targeted as soon as Holy and Huschel admit to being altered or not altered(no lying you bums)

                                                  Both said they weren't altered. Please reply who Foolio targeted.

                                                  –- Update From New Post Merge ---

                                                  @Gerri:

                                                  Questions for everybody:

                                                  1. Do you believe a joint win with the 3rd party is possible?
                                                  2. Do you believe that the people altered so far are clear? If not why not? If only specific people then please explain.
                                                  3. Considering your answer to 1) to you think lynching all of 3rd party before lynching the last mafia is important to ensure an overall town win?
                                                  4. Out of the remaining unaltered. Who do you think is mafia and who do you think is 3rd party? Do you think any of them could be town?
                                                  5. How do you explain Foolio's death? Was it caused by town, mafia or by Foolio himself?

                                                  I will provide my own answers later.

                                                  Reposting as not everybody has answered. Please note that Wooden claimed to be the remaining third Party while I posted this.

                                                  –- Update From New Post Merge ---

                                                  @Gerri:

                                                  Does anybody think it is possible that not being able to alter Mafia only implied that Mafia would not be turned into a Cyborg yet still get the additional power. It doesn't really make sense from a cause-effect perspective but it's something to consider in light of some People not having the text in parenthesis.

                                                  And reposting this one as well.

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                                                    Harvady Alumnus @Outerspec
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                                                    @Outerspec:

                                                    Also, can you clarify what you mean by "follow the robot"?

                                                    'Follow the Robot' is a play on 'Follow the Cop'. It's a strategy used by town where they can use investigations-and only investigations-to find mafia. It happens when there's a cop who cannot be killed nor blocked.

                                                    @Gerri:

                                                    Space might have a different theory but I'll throw mine out. Does anybody think it is possible that not being able to alter Mafia only implied that Mafia would not be turned into a Cyborg yet still get the additional power. It doesn't really make sense from a cause-effect perspective but it's something to consider in light of some People not having the text in parenthesis.

                                                    This is part of why I asked "Are you convinced that people with powers are 'clear'?" Powers don't mean much in light of Kubihige's flip. It's easy enough to claim, and in certain cases, prove having a power. But that itself is not proof enough. People who were altered are likely to be town than as opposed to people who are only claiming to have a power.

                                                    I give benjamminbrown and SpaceCowboy the benefit of the doubt because on D3 I told people not to claim just to satisfy Nectar. I didn't say to lie and say no, but I said to protect themselves from NKs. They both lied about being altered and each one was put under pressure before claiming.

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                                                      benjamminbrown @Gerri
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                                                      Wow, I've been trying to keep up, but I had a really busy day yesterday. Sorry that I haven't participated much, yet, but I should have more free time now that it's the weekend.

                                                      I knew that more people were going to end up dead after everyone started using their cyborg powers (one Mafioso down, nice work Vig!). If the TP was giving out shields and medicine, then it was only a matter of time before people got weapons, too. What's disconcerting is that someone must have gotten an ability that can kill even a bulletproof Robot. For my own sake, I hope that it was just a one shot thing, or that it was something like a bomb/mine.

                                                      Wooden, so you're the 3rd Robot? Sorry if I missed it, but did you already say how you think Foolio died? If Foolio targeted someone last night that you all had already targeted once before, then it's possible that the first attempt gave that target a bomb-like ability that kills whoever targets them on a subsequent night.

                                                      I'm still concerned that the TP may be considered a threat because they are giving out weapons, but what's more important for today is to look for Mafia, I think. Let's see if I can answer all of the questions posed so far (Sorry for the walls of text… I know. I'm really wordy ._. ).

                                                      @Gerri:

                                                      Questions for everybody:

                                                      1. Do you believe a joint win with the 3rd party is possible?

                                                      It very well could be possible, but I'm still not entirely convinced of it. Their flips didn't really contradict what they've been saying, but they unfortunately didn't really corroborate all that much of their story, either. It certainly didn't say anything about them being unable to convert Mafia, and I find that a little disturbing since that's how all of this got started.

                                                      1. Do you believe that the people altered so far are clear? If not why not? If only specific people then please explain.

                                                      At this point, I'd like to believe what the Robots said about being unable to alter Mafia, but I honestly still don't know what to think. Then again, there's no guarantee that anyone who has already claimed an alteration is being truthful, either. Certainly the late comers could have tried to fake their claims.

                                                      I understand Space hiding his alteration. But, now I think I'm beginning to see just how scummy that must have seemed to you all when I did it. This puts me in a bad position. All I can say is that, since I made my claim, I haven't lied to any of you about my alteration. If you want more proof, then one of you power roles will probably have to target me tonight. I don't want to have to use any of my shield just to prove myself to you all, but if that's what you need to do, then I can understand. I also think that a cop would probably be better off investigating someone else, but again, if you need to target me, then I understand.

                                                      Harvady, I know you said that it's scummy to scrutinize PMs, but even if you don't want to reveal anything about your ability, can you confirm the sentence that I paraphrased from my alteration message? "Perhaps it wasn't just your imagination?" It was the last sentence before the description of my new power. OS says that it could just be fluff that I made up, but it isn't and I didn't; that question is really there in my PM.

                                                      1. Considering your answer to 1) to you think lynching all of 3rd party before lynching the last mafia is important to ensure an overall town win?

                                                      I'm not sure, but I do think that it's probably the only way to make sure that "all threats" are eliminated, as per our win condition. I want to focus on finding Mafia, since I think that there are two more of them and we already know that Wooden's the last Robot. But I still don't know if we can trust the Robots for a joint win.

                                                      If they really can alter even the Mafia, and if we lynch one of the last two people who are unaltered today, then that means the Robots have only one more alteration to do tonight to reach their Win condition (assuming all of the claimers are being truthful). With no Mafia blocker to stop them, it'd be up to the Town to prevent them from winning until we find/lynch the rest of the scum. Unless there's a blocker on the town side that's going to target Wooden for the rest of the game, there's really no way to stop them from reaching their win condition unless we lynch the last one, I think.

                                                      If the TP really is considered a threat, then lynching Wooden might be something that we have to do before we finish the game.

                                                      1. Out of the remaining unaltered. Who do you think is mafia and who do you think is 3rd party? Do you think any of them could be town?

                                                      I haven't had enough of a chance to read through their posts to make a good judgment on this, unfortunately.

                                                      And I'm still very confused about how the alterations are happening (or not). I don't think that all of the people who have claimed should necessarily be above suspicion, either. For all we really know, both of the remaining unaltered players might be Town.

                                                      1. How do you explain Foolio's death? Was it caused by town, mafia or by Foolio himself?

                                                      I've already written a bit on that at the beginning of my post. Any number of things could have happened to Foolio, really. I just hope that whatever happened to him doesn't happen to me tonight. 😞

                                                      Yesterday, Foolio said he thought that Mafia would have used any Robot-killing abilities on them as soon as they outed themselves, and I think that he was probably right. To me, it seems more likely that a Towny who is suspicious of the TP would have used their ability on him last night. That, or a bomb/mine, are the most likely options in my mind.

                                                      @Outerspec:

                                                      Harvady and Ben, why the hell don't you all have what every other Townie person has? I can't believe Harvady wasn't altered. Not after he gave that first description. Ben though?

                                                      I hadn't thought about it before, but as someone else already said, it would make sense if the people who got passive abilities from their cyborg alteration also got slightly different PMs. That certainly fits my case, perhaps Harvady can confirm this theory if he is willing?

                                                      @Harvady:

                                                      Question to everyone: Do you believe what the Robots said about not being able to convert mafia? Are you convinced that people with powers are 'clear'?

                                                      Sort of already answered your question via Gerri's questions. I don't think that all of the people who have claimed powers are necessarily being truthful, and I'm still not entirely convinced that the Mafia can't get cyborg'd.

                                                      @Gerri:

                                                      Does anybody think it is possible that not being able to alter Mafia only implied that Mafia would not be turned into a Cyborg yet still get the additional power. It doesn't really make sense from a cause-effect perspective but it's something to consider in light of some People not having the text in parenthesis.

                                                      It's an interesting point, Gerri, and I see that this makes me look even more suspect. I'd like to hear more of what Harvady has to say about his ability and alteration PM before I start drawing conclusions.

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                                                        Holygamer999 @Outerspec
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                                                        @Outerspec:

                                                        Lol, how are you going to leave out the code crackers as the least suspicious but not me? I'm the one that provided the code to crack. I do not agree with Harvady's assessment that using what's in your PMs to your advantage is scummy because as far as I can tell that's all a part of the game. To discern who's scum or not by whatever inventive means. As long as you don't quote PMs verbatim of course.

                                                        Harvady doesn't have the text though so maybe that's why he's against it? He might think PM related posts are a waste of time but its what he used to show his own alteration. Paraphrasing what's in his text. Anyway, I'll be out at a wedding for most of the day so I won't be on for most of Today.

                                                        I thought it was Space that gave the code. What did you do?

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                                                        • SpaceCowboy
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                                                          @Holygamer999:

                                                          I thought it was Space that gave the code. What did you do?

                                                          He was the one that picked Trappe´s flag and made the parentheses question to be Ben, which I used to create the code. He also inquired Harv and Tyrano about it.

                                                          I will read what was posted and see if I can add anything relevant to the discussion.

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                                                          Also, my opinion:

                                                          About Foolio´s death, the mafia may have been given One or maybe two special bullets that ignore bulletproof in the beginning of the game.

                                                          This would serve for them to counter the robots, when they found out about who they were.
                                                          They did not use one on Nectar because it was pretty clear the town would end up lynching her.
                                                          They did not use one on Foolio earlier because they wanted to get more info on him about the other TP, and eventually check if it was really necessary to use one of the bullets on him.

                                                          If there was a landmine, then why did not someone else died?
                                                          They could have simply have gone for one of the potential Ability users. Other change is that they targeted Ben, or maybe even Wooden. If the first is somewhat likely, the second seems dumb to me.

                                                          Anyway, just my two cents. It´s not worth to speculate about it.

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                                                            Where's Wooden!!!!

                                                            3DS Friend Code: 3196 - 6799 - 6143

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                                                            • Outerspec
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                                                              @Holy: The answer to the 'code' is the same answer to the question I gave to Ben. Space's 'code' was just answering the question Ben and Harvady couldn't.

                                                              @Gerri:

                                                              1. I believe a joint win with 3rd Party is a possibility. It's not a definite so why should we risk it? Seriously, why? We're all playing towards our win conditions here.

                                                              2. My answer is the same answer I gave to Harvady.

                                                              3. Yeah, I don't want to risk it.

                                                              4. Thoughts on Mafia = Huschel and Holy . Maybe Ben and someone else if both of those 2 (Hushcel or Holy) magically don't turn up as Mafia.

                                                              5. Fooilo's death was a shocker and maybe he stepped on a landmine after trying to alter some unknown Mafia member like some people suggested. Maybe some Townie super distrustful of the 3rd Party got some ability to harm a Robot and he used it. Maybe the Mafia used some kind of special and limited means to take down a Robot. I don't know. All I know is that I'm glad a Mafia member died the same night because they are definitely a threat.

                                                              @Ben: When you do read through everything carefully please do give us your #1 suspect.

                                                              Everything's Eventual…

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                                                                Foolio targeted Holy, sure you weren't altered buddy?

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                                                                By the way, y'all seem to asking lots of questions to me. But seeing as how y'all plan to lynch me at some point I don't feel obligated to help anymore.

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                                                                  Unvote

                                                                  Vote: Holygamer999

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                                                                  @Wooden_Giraffe:

                                                                  Foolio targeted Holy, sure you weren't altered buddy?

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                                                                  By the way, y'all seem to asking lots of questions to me. But seeing as how y'all plan to lynch me at some point I don't feel obligated to help anymore.

                                                                  Well according to you, you win when Mafia are gone.
                                                                  We, at the moment, are lynching Mafia suspects before you…

                                                                  Although I'd rather otherwise, that's what's happening.

                                                                  3DS Friend Code: 3196 - 6799 - 6143

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                                                                    Thanks Wooden for continued cooperation.

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                                                                    If you don't mind the question. Why do you vote Huschel then?

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                                                                    @Harvady:

                                                                    This is part of why I asked "Are you convinced that people with powers are 'clear'?" Powers don't mean much in light of Kubihige's flip. It's easy enough to claim, and in certain cases, prove having a power. But that itself is not proof enough. People who were altered are likely to be town than as opposed to people who are only claiming to have a power. I give benjamminbrown and SpaceCowboy the benefit of the doubt because on D3 I told people not to claim just to satisfy Nectar. I didn't say to lie and say no, but I said to protect themselves from NKs. They both lied about being altered and each one was put under pressure before claiming.

                                                                    Valid point. It is not really an answer to my question though so just to avoid misunderstandings let me clarify.

                                                                    We have to 'special' circumstances today that led to further speculation regarding the third Party. First, the bulletproof Foolio died. Second, we are down to two unaltered players which unless somebody lied or some other so far unmentioned mechanic is at work would make them mafia. Hence today's prevalent question being whether altered Players are really cleared.

                                                                    Two speculations were:

                                                                    1. Will a third party member die if targeting a mafia player? (as one potential answer for Foolio's death (among several other possibilities))
                                                                    2. 3rd Party does two things: make cyburg & provide power, both can be considered an Alteration but does the caveat that they can not alter mafia potentially only apply to not being able to turn mafia into a cyborg (while still providing a power).

                                                                    The second one was the specific question I had. I already mentioned that I find it unlikely because turning townies into cyborgs (=cause) is in my understanding what gives them the power (=effect).

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                                                                      Holygamer999 @Wooden_Giraffe
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                                                                      @Wooden_Giraffe:

                                                                      Foolio targeted Holy, sure you weren't altered buddy?

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                                                                      By the way, y'all seem to asking lots of questions to me. But seeing as how y'all plan to lynch me at some point I don't feel obligated to help anymore.

                                                                      Pretty sure. No messages or anything, and that could be for a couple reasons. A. Foolio got killed so it didn't go through. B. A roleblock of some kind.

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                                                                      • Gerri
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                                                                        I'm still stomped that you took screen shots of Wooden lurking in the thread Information but never noticed/mentioned Kubihige for doing it. You also never commented on him/her when you were discussing leftover suspects with Foolio (i.e. the unaltered list). The only interaction you had with Kubi was a "hear hear 16 chars" when s/he joined the "space-makes-no-sense camp" on Day 1 and an honorary mention in your Initial case against me ("because Kubihige seemed more lurkerish than Outer") which I still find odd because Outer has been one of the most active players throughout this game.

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                                                                        Wooden: genuine question this time. Were you guys allowed to post in your QT during the day?

                                                                        There was an interaction between Kubihige and Ben that seemed more like friendly advise to calm down to which he reacted almost immediately. Kind of made me wonder whether s/he was trying to protect Ben.

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                                                                          @Gerri:

                                                                          Why do you think you won't be targeted by the mafia the next night?

                                                                          Why do you think we have enough to go on right now, even though what we have to go on right now makes you one of the most likely lynch targets?

                                                                          Well, I have three votes already and I don't really see how I would make myself appear less suspicious. So if I don't get lynched today there is no way the mafia will help out by killing me.
                                                                          It's unfortunate that what we have makes me a lynching target but it was bound to happen to somebody. Obviously nobody has any power-related information to share that would clear me or it would have already happened. No need for me to tell people that.

                                                                          @Gerri:

                                                                          Why did you feel inclined to answer to Nectar's question to Tyrano that you love to post in your quicktopic during the day? Were you starting to feel too safe? Was it going to be your proud moment to go back to after the game?

                                                                          Medical condition.

                                                                          @OuterSpec:

                                                                          We can lynch Huschel or Holy. Ben is still also up for grabs but I'm sticking with Huschel because I like the odds. Who's it going to be?

                                                                          What odds exactly? Of lynching me or of lynching mafia?

                                                                          @Harvady:

                                                                          Do you believe what the Robots said about not being able to convert mafia? Are you convinced that people with powers are 'clear'?

                                                                          I believe that the 3rd party thinks that. Nectar revealed himself based on that. They're not converting (=change alignments) anybody anyhow.
                                                                          Are you talking about powers received from robot "alterations"? I'm not sure it matters. Holy and I are the only ones left and I suppose we will both get lynched for that quite soon. And then if it's not over, there will have to be scum power users.

                                                                          Nectar was at six votes. Wooden_Giraffe jumped off Nectar as soon as he had the chance, because he was Nectar's partner. It was tied at five and YOU made Mrs. Iceburg's wagon six. We were set to vote a non-townie and you jumped. Nectar's lynch "was going to happen" and Mrs. Iceburg could have lived. But you decided to push a wagon that you say "wouldn't reveal a lot", when we all knew that Nectar's flip would.

                                                                          Wooden had just changed his vote to Mrs. Iceburg. SpaceCowboy had done the same. Foolio wasn't going to change to Nectar. Neither was Nectar himself. That left trapped and Gerri who could have changed their votes to Nectar. The latter was somewhat pacified by Foolio claiming. Even with both switching to Nectar and me staying there it wouldn't have been enough. Tyrano wasn't around and Outer wasn't showing either close to Day end.

                                                                          And using PMs to find scum/clear people is just easier. It's also more boring though.

                                                                          Could somebody please sum up for me whose alteration PMs are the same(ish) and which apparently differ? It may be obviousy to people who have gotten one but I don't get it. I'm asking because if it's two people who have different PMs then they might just be mafia together. I think that applies to ben and Harvady but I want to make sure before going down that path.

                                                                          @WoodenGiraffe:

                                                                          By the way, y'all seem to asking lots of questions to me. But seeing as how y'all plan to lynch me at some point I don't feel obligated to help anymore.

                                                                          That's fair. Personally I'm not planning to lynch you unless the mafia is gone and the game is not over. Or let's say until three mafia members have been killed.

                                                                          And thanks for telling us about Holy. I was obviously going to vote for him anyway but…you know.

                                                                          Vote Lynch: HolyGamer999

                                                                          Okay, actually I think I remember Foolio claiming that alterations had the lowest priority. So somebody could have killed Foolio before it happened. Just putting that out there.

                                                                          @Gerri:

                                                                          Will a third party member die if targeting a mafia player? (as one potential answer for Foolio's death (among several other possibilities))

                                                                          I love this though. Seems very straightforward to me. And the 3rd party may not be aware of their drawback for balancing.

                                                                          How original is it to still have this in my signature 6 years later?

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                                                                            I like the odds as in it's 50/50 chance that lynching one of you will result in a deceased mafia member.

                                                                            Same (ish) alteration PMs include (Mine, Tyrano, Gerri, and Space)

                                                                            Different alteration PMs include (Harvady and Ben)

                                                                            No alteration PMs include (Huschel and Holy)

                                                                            Everything's Eventual…

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                                                                            • Gerri
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                                                                              Less than 10 hours left btw. It feels like should get to wrapping up the day. I'll be around and drop my vote later.

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                                                                                Ok, with less than 10 hours votes stand at…

                                                                                HolyGamer [2]: Tyrano, Huschel
                                                                                Hushcel [3]: Wooden Giraffe, Outerspec, Harvady Alumnus

                                                                                What I find strange is that Wooden didn't change votes even after saying Holy was targeted last Night.

                                                                                Everything's Eventual…

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                                                                                • Wooden_Giraffe
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                                                                                  As far as I can tell they're both mafia. But whatever, just want to lynch one of them.

                                                                                  unvote
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                                                                                    Holygamer999 @Gerri
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                                                                                    @Gerri:

                                                                                    I'm still stomped that you took screen shots of Wooden lurking in the thread Information but never noticed/mentioned Kubihige for doing it. You also never commented on him/her when you were discussing leftover suspects with Foolio (i.e. the unaltered list). The only interaction you had with Kubi was a "hear hear 16 chars" when s/he joined the "space-makes-no-sense camp" on Day 1 and an honorary mention in your Initial case against me ("because Kubihige seemed more lurkerish than Outer") which I still find odd because Outer has been one of the most active players throughout this game.

                                                                                    Because I didn't? I never really noticed with kubi, and at the time there was already kind of a want for wooden to speak up. As for outer, not at that point in time he wasn't.

                                                                                    Vote Lynch: Huschel
                                                                                    Honestly, I'm more than a little concerned by the fact that Huschel has been going after me since the beginning of the day. Logically yes, it does make sense for him to do this since I'm the only one besides him who is on the uncleared list. But let me ask you something Huschel: Have you even considered the possibility that both of us are town? At this point we both know that the whole third party "claimed" thing is a load of crap, so why haven't you been more vocal about that possibility today. I thought I already mentioned it earlier, but I see this going to a potential two days where we pass the buck. I'm not saying to not vote for Huschel or me, but to really look at the other supposedly safe people. Look at all of them as if they didn't have alibi's, because there is an almost certain chance that by the end of today you will all realize that the mafia has been leading you around like the pied piper.

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                                                                                    • Huschel
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                                                                                      I have considered it. There's really no way to make town believe that even if I did. I'll try tomorrow if you flip town. If you're mafia I can feel okay about a mislynch on me.

                                                                                      How original is it to still have this in my signature 6 years later?

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                                                                                        Holygamer999 @Huschel
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                                                                                        @Huschel:

                                                                                        I have considered it. There's really no way to make town believe that even if I did. I'll try tomorrow if you flip town. If you're mafia I can feel okay about a mislynch on me.

                                                                                        Same here then if your lynched. One way or another, they'll have to acknowledge that at least 1 mafia member is among them.

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                                                                                          Fair enough ~

                                                                                          How original is it to still have this in my signature 6 years later?

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                                                                                          • Gerri
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                                                                                            I'll go with Huschel. Foolio mentioned earlier that the alterations are 'lowest speed' and that death of the target would happen before conversion. With that it seems likely that death of the targeting player also comes before conversion. Add to that that Foolio's death overall is somewhat mysterious. Basically, all that makes me less inclined to strictly follow the Alteration as base for my vote. Instead I'll go with the one I find more suspicious.

                                                                                            Vote Lynch: Huschel

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                                                                                            Makes it

                                                                                            HolyGamer [3]: Tyrano, Huschel, Wooden Giraffe
                                                                                            Hushcel [4]: Outerspec, Harvady Alumnus, Holygamer, Gerri

                                                                                            –- Update From New Post Merge ---

                                                                                            And just in case somebody forgot. With nine players, it takes 5 votes to lynch, meaning Huschel is at L-1.

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                                                                                              The Day ends in ~6 hours and ben and Space have yet to vote and my name is Huschel. >:

                                                                                              I'm looking at some older posts right now and I'm posting some now in case I get hammered suddenly. Can't lay off the bottle. 😞

                                                                                              Harvady is pressured to reveal his alteration. He explains that he got a power.
                                                                                              trapped was altered (#1430). She says she doesn't think that Harvady got the same message she did but that it was similar.
                                                                                              ben was feeling threatened and claimed alteration (after having denied it previously) while being 100% anti-3rd party. He hints at his bullet-proof ability early on (#1451) so I think that much is true. There also seems to be a vigilante though so mafia could use that power as well. In that post he also puts Foolio in the 3rd party. #1453 implies that he knows he had been targeted by robots. In the same post he deduces that it's likely the 3rd party is immune to bullets because he got the ability. Kind of a stretch? Maybe he knows because they had tried killing Foolio before?

                                                                                              How original is it to still have this in my signature 6 years later?

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                                                                                              • Gerri
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                                                                                                sorry and thanks. don't make this even harder on me 😞

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                                                                                                  I'm good. 😛 And I found something interesting maybe.

                                                                                                  #1470: trapped mentions that ben seems to have gotten a similar message as well. Voices some doubr too though.
                                                                                                  #1480: ben mentions that town reallydoesn't want to lose him. Just because you're town, ben?
                                                                                                  *1483: Space says he hasn't been altered.
                                                                                                  #1486: ben had no "visitor".
                                                                                                  trapped's interrogation of ben continues. Now I remember him claiming that his case may be different due to being a replacement.
                                                                                                  At the same time, Kubihige wants trapped to answer her own interrogation questions. She declines of course (#1498). Was Kubi trying to help out a scum buddy?
                                                                                                  #1501: Now ben wants trapped to answer her own question and have Harvady confirm…

                                                                                                  How original is it to still have this in my signature 6 years later?

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                                                                                                    Ben really seemed to listen to Kubi and Kubi really seemed to protect him. That stood out to me, as well. Do you now whether they are Forum friends. Kubi was also super narrow in his interactions. The vast majority of times addressing trapped.

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                                                                                                    unvote I'm enjoying your research and don't want it to end prematurely…

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                                                                                                      spiral
                                                                                                      Holygamer999
                                                                                                      spiral

                                                                                                      Are you guys sure that that code thing is legit, cause as I said earlier Kubi seemed to be defending space on D1, but that it wasn't likely because of this code (a thing I still don't completely understand btw)

                                                                                                      Gerri 1 Reply Last reply Reply Quote 0
                                                                                                      • Gerri
                                                                                                        Gerri
                                                                                                        last edited by
                                                                                                        Gerri
                                                                                                        spiral
                                                                                                        Gerri
                                                                                                        spiral

                                                                                                        Wooden Something seems off so I have to come back to this again. Was there anything in your role PM or your discussion with Bogart that confirmed without a doubt that turning a player into a cyborg is what gives them the power or did anything give you the impression that those two actions could be disconnected. The wording "you cannot roboticize mafia" seems very peculiar. Also, please answer the QT question.

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