For hundreds of chapter we thought only his fellow friend Calgara got his own statue built. Only now we found out he's gotten one himself!
Vote for an ancestor! Vote for a friend! Vote for a hero!
Vote Norland!
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Silvers Rayleigh vs. Norland
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A vote for Norland is a vote for Usoland, Robiland, Fraland, Sanland, Zoroland, Luffland, Chopperland, Namiland, and Bonesland
Yesss, finally :ninja:
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Glad to see Noland with such a big lead. Seems like another big competitor from last year is going down in the first round.
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Glad to see Noland with such a big lead. Seems like another big competitor from last year is going down in the first round.
I honestly enjoy when the bigger names go down first; it gives more room for the lesser characters(and by lesser I mean the ones who usually do terrible) to shine. It opens the floor for fresh campaigns and gets me, personally, more psyched for the tournament.
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Rayleigh has my vote
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@No:
Good point
.Not sure yet guys. Convince me.
Haha, I just made this, but it seems you beat me to it
I was going to vote for Rayleigh but then I've seen these… XD
Rayleigh will understand, he is a gentleman.
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I got to admit, that I like both equally.
Though Dryish is right, and I as well think, most of the conflicts in Norlands Flashback were caused by stubborn or thoughtless decisions, i still like Norland. I think Norland just overestimated the Shandians bondages to their nature and gods, while he absolutely underestimated their ability to forgive. Still the whole Skypeia arc was based on such misunderstandings and Calgara and Norland turned out to become the first and last for about 200 years to overcome those. Sure out of the two friends I always prefered Calgara. But well however, Calgara is out - so there's only Norland left.Rayleigh again is a great Character, but it's true that he until now lacks his own scenery or arc. Sure there is this epic Introduction in Sabaody, him kicking Kizaru and swimming through the calm belt, but that's basically all there is, and during all of this he never was more than a minor character. I mean that doesn't lower his epicness, but his memorability…
Well, for the question of the more manglaze... I think I have to do something banal and just vote the one with the more memorable looking. That's the man with the onion on his head. Kind of hard to explain for those, who don't speak german, but there's a german carnival-song about those with the onion on their heads. And well... Voted Norland
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Ah, nice to see Noland is still leading. I really hope he can go far this year
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You just don't like storytelling_,_ do you? Like, most all conflict can be avoided. That doesn't mean it should be. That flashback worked because of the conflict. Sure, it might be a little frustrating, but that was the point.
Aww, Kitsune, don't jump into conclusions right away. You hurt me.
I know very well that it was the point - I even said so in my last, longer post; that conflict was exactly what made the flashback what it was. And I can't really accuse the characters of being bad or stupid if the conflict the author has created, in this case that of misunderstandings and overcoming those, is something that I don't personally fancy. Which is why I still think Norland is a good character, he served his purpose exactly the way that he was meant to, and wasn't illogical in the original context of the story.
And I do like storytelling, I'm even well aware that most storytelling is conflict-driven. It's just the particular nature of conflict that I dislike and disagree with because it frustrates me to no end and makes me incredibly anxious. People not telling one another things and then not knowing how to react to something or, even worse, reacting strongly and negatively to something someone else has done because they don't understand why someone is doing or saying something is real stupidity. Or at least in my books it is. It always makes me sad because it damages people, and it makes things a thousand times more complicated than they ever need to be. And I don't think that's right, I don't think that should be allowed just to occur.
Sure it was the running theme that the entire flashback was built upon, but, uh, what then? It doesn't make it any less bewildering and scary as it is. It's something that always hurts me on a personal level.
! Not to mention the fact that this is exactly the reason why I still hate Skypiea and why, to me, it's the "worst" arc in One Piece. Not because it was badly written - it definitely wasn't - but because the entire arc was about people reacting to the wrong cues in wrong ways because of generations long misunderstandings that had already became ingrained in their very soil and very culture.
! Zephos once made a comparison between the Israel-Palestinian situation and the situation between the Shandians and the Skypieans, and I absolutely loved that comparison since it's so very accurate. Both conflicts are as damaging to the people living in those areas, and both continue because of modern day bloodshed carried out by angry young people lashing out.
! That infinite sadness and destruction combined with the single most assholish villain I have ever seen in Shonen? shuddersIn Loving Memory of Toraish, Rex Avium: http://apforums.net/showthread.php?t=40786 | 3DS Friend Code: 3196-4274-7836
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Voted for the man that lived the most fullfilling life. Noland. He voyaged numerous islands, attempted to save an entire tribe from an illness, and was even brave enough to challenge the idea of sacrificing human beings as a ritual(in a tribe he barely even met too). Even so, I also really loved that he was able to realize that he crossed the line, even if it meant saving an entire village. I love this man. Can't hold a thing agianst him.
Rayliegh? What is there to say about him? Love him or hate him, you can't even type a paragraph about the guy.
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this is too good to be true
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Voted for the man that lived the most fullfilling life. Noland. He voyaged numerous islands, attempted to save an entire tribe from an illness, and was even brave enough to challenge the idea of sacrificing human beings as a ritual(in a tribe he barely even met too). Even so, I also really loved that he was able to realize that he crossed the line, even if it meant saving an entire village. I love this man. Can't hold a thing agianst him.
Rayliegh? What is there to say about him? Love him or hate him, you can't even type a paragraph about the guy.
This is a really good post, for the record. If I wasn't a complete sucker for the strong old mentor type of character, I probably would have voted for Norland because of how great his life was. He did cross the line and acted brashly and stupidly for a couple of times, but that doesn't really nullify the awesome of what he did (if you're able to look past the effects on a personal level).
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Not to mention the fact that this is exactly the reason why I still hate Skypiea and why, to me, it's the "worst" arc in One Piece. Not because it was badly written - it definitely wasn't - but because the entire arc was about people reacting to the wrong cues in wrong ways because of generations long misunderstandings that had already became ingrained in their very soil and very culture.
Zephos once made a comparison between the Israel-Palestinian situation and the situation between the Shandians and the Skypieans, and I absolutely loved that comparison since it's so very accurate. Both conflicts are as damaging to the people living in those areas, and both continue because of modern day bloodshed carried out by angry young people lashing out.
That infinite sadness and destruction combined with the single most assholish villain I have ever seen in Shonen? shudders
Haha
This is actually a large part of what I like about Skypiea. The main conflicting parties in the present time (in the arc) are basically fighting over nothing with only inherited wrath, in a way which is actually very realistic. It means the fighting of the arc is some of the best in OP to me (not because of actual fights themselves, mind). And it means that Wyper, who is basically walking rage, is a very satisfying character to watch. Because that bundle of pointless anger, in the end, puts all his might - nearly his life - into helping a Blue Sea trespasser smash away Enel and ring that bell.
Oh, and everyone being forced to fairly harmoniously live together by the destruction of Angel Island too. These things make the arc sooooo satisfying even without the flashback
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Yeah, I can see why people like it, it's actually very well written and, as you said, a very realistic depiction of how that kind of a situation gets created and then keeps feeding off of itself and the conflicting emotions it causes in the locals that it touches. It's a really great homage to all of Oda's political studies and shows that he actually understands these things quite well. I can't really blame anyone for finding it so satisfying and great and I won't either.
To me, it's just always about the why and never about the what or the how. And when that why is warped and bad things ensue, I get incredibly sad. Wiper's probably my most hated character in the entire series because of the emotional mess his very existence makes me turn into. On one hand, he's so misguided and consumed by rage and anxiety that it stings my chest to see someone driven into that condition, but on the other hand he also does so many incredibly hurtful, stupid, stupid things that only serve to further inflame the entire situation that I can't help but get incredibly angry to the point where I just want to punch him myself.
I keep repeating this, but it's frustrating to read.
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Shit, I wish I could take fiction that seriously.
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The one and only thing that bugged me about Noland's flashback was how no one seemed to investigate the phenomenon behind those strange earthquakes. I mean, the crew could have seen stranger islands during their voyage, but it sort of contradicts how investigative they were scientifically.
It was kinda unfortunate how they missed an explanation to why Shandora was gone.
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Tournaments are not my thing. But I find myself dragged into this one kicking and screaming due to some hilarious campaigning. So I blame all of you for this. And I will retaliate by turning this fun serious and boring.
Since I'm hooked I'd better say my peace. I wouldn't know how to edit an image even if it talked me through the process. So words it is.
I consider Rayleigh the better choice. Because he has not lost hope. Unlike Norland who surrendered to his fate. Rayleigh continues to struggle. He is old and no longer in his prime. He lost all his friends. But instead of surrendering. He finds ways to be useful. He coats pirate ships to help them into the new world. And through the years of drinking and mischief he endures until he is rewarded by meeting Luffy. Seeing his chance to influence the age beyond his years he trains this promising boy.
In this age of teenage suicides and suicide bombers I find this message of hope endearing. Loss of hope turns people into victims or monsters. The will to live and endure is a powerful and beautiful thing. I love that Rayleigh personifies this perseverance against all odds. I love that he doesn't take the easy way out. That he chooses to live so that he might have the PRIVILEGE of seeing what comes next.
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Tournaments are not my thing. But I find myself dragged into this one kicking and screaming due to some hilarious campaigning. So I blame all of you for this. And I will retaliate by turning this fun serious and boring.
Since I'm hooked I'd better say my peace. I wouldn't know how to edit an image even if it talked me through the process. So words it is.
I consider Rayleigh the better choice. Because he has not lost hope. Unlike Norland who surrendered to his fate. Rayleigh continues to struggle. He is old and no longer in his prime. He lost all his friends. But instead of surrendering. He finds ways to be useful. He coats pirate ships to help them into the new world. And through the years of drinking and mischief he endures until he is rewarded by meeting Luffy. Seeing his chance to influence the age beyond his years he trains this promising boy.
In this age of teenage suicides and suicide bombers I find this message of hope endearing. Loss of hope turns people into victims or monsters. The will to live and endure is a powerful and beautiful thing. I love that Rayleigh personifies this perseverance against all odds. I love that he doesn't take the easy way out. That he chooses to live so that he might have the PRIVILEGE of seeing what comes next.
Are we gonna ignore how their lose were quite different? On one hand, Rayleigh knew what's going to happen, and lived to see what's going to happen.. he actually had a closure with his friends, and that closure is what makes him want to live on and keep surviving till he sees the rise of a new age.
On the other hand, for Norland it was like a bad dream.. his friends just… disappeared with their land, like they weren't there to begin with! No trace. No goodbyes. Not even a warning. And no closure. Can you imagine what that does to a man!!
And then you lose your credibility in front of your own people and king who used to look at you like a hero of theirs?! Shit, man, that's rough. -
Tournaments are not my thing. But I find myself dragged into this one kicking and screaming due to some hilarious campaigning. So I blame all of you for this. And I will retaliate by turning this fun serious and boring.
Since I'm hooked I'd better say my peace. I wouldn't know how to edit an image even if it talked me through the process. So words it is.
I consider Rayleigh the better choice. Because he has not lost hope. Unlike Norland who surrendered to his fate. Rayleigh continues to struggle. He is old and no longer in his prime. He lost all his friends. But instead of surrendering. He finds ways to be useful. He coats pirate ships to help them into the new world. And through the years of drinking and mischief he endures until he is rewarded by meeting Luffy. Seeing his chance to influence the age beyond his years he trains this promising boy.
In this age of teenage suicides and suicide bombers I find this message of hope endearing. Loss of hope turns people into victims or monsters. The will to live and endure is a powerful and beautiful thing. I love that Rayleigh personifies this perseverance against all odds. I love that he doesn't take the easy way out. That he chooses to live so that he might have the PRIVILEGE of seeing what comes next.
Oh you silly you, Noland never stopped believing. Even after he died, he kept holding out for the Light of Shandora to ring again.
He was just a good law abiding citizen unlike that filthy pirate
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Are we gonna ignore how their lose were quite different? On one hand, Rayleigh knew what's going to happen, and lived to see what's going to happen.. he actually had a closure with his friends, and that closure is what makes him want to live on and keep surviving till he sees the rise of a new age.
On the other hand, for Norland it was like a bad dream.. his friends just… disappeared with their land, like they weren't there to begin with! No trace. No goodbyes. Not even a warning. And no closure. Can you imagine what that does to a man!!
And then you lose your credibility in front of your own people and king who used to look at you like a hero of theirs?! Shit, man, that's rough.True. Still no excuse for giving up. Not for me anyway. No matter how rough it gets. I hate the message it sends.
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Oh you silly you, Noland never stopped believing. Even after he died, he kept holding out for the Light of Shandora to ring again.
He was just a good law abiding citizen unlike that filthy pirate
Oh, please. This is a manga about the nature of freedom. Political freedom. That it lies somewhere in between police states' view of law and order "the world government" and total anarchy "most pirates". The law as some greedy king sees it isn't worth respecting.
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After last year's upsets, I find it hard to vote for Rayleigh anymore. So go NORLAND!!
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Voting Noland. Because I just like him better.
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Oh, voted Norland because I thought Rayleigh would be winning. I honestly think both are awesome, though while I think that Rayleigh is (of course) more awesome because of who he is, I enjoyed Norland's flashback and involvement in the story very much.
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So this is Rayleighs weakness? ANOTHER manglazer?
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I can't believe this is happening right now.
Vengeance for Jabra!
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Tournaments are not my thing. But I find myself dragged into this one kicking and screaming due to some hilarious campaigning. So I blame all of you for this. And I will retaliate by turning this fun serious and boring.
Since I'm hooked I'd better say my peace. I wouldn't know how to edit an image even if it talked me through the process. So words it is.
I consider Rayleigh the better choice. Because he has not lost hope. Unlike Norland who surrendered to his fate. Rayleigh continues to struggle. He is old and no longer in his prime. He lost all his friends. But instead of surrendering. He finds ways to be useful. He coats pirate ships to help them into the new world. And through the years of drinking and mischief he endures until he is rewarded by meeting Luffy. Seeing his chance to influence the age beyond his years he trains this promising boy.
In this age of teenage suicides and suicide bombers I find this message of hope endearing. Loss of hope turns people into victims or monsters. The will to live and endure is a powerful and beautiful thing. I love that Rayleigh personifies this perseverance against all odds. I love that he doesn't take the easy way out. That he chooses to live so that he might have the PRIVILEGE of seeing what comes next.
The whole point of the Norland flashback is that its a tragedy. The ending is supposed to be miserable, so that Luffy can fulfill the promise with the ringing of the bell.
Also, I don't see how Noland "lost hope", or "Surrendered to fate", he was simply unable to do anything about his situation: Imprisoned, branded a traitor and subjected to an unfair trial. Are you saying he chose to get executed? And that Rayleigh is admirable by choosing not to kill himself?
If anything Norland is admirable because he held on to his convictions, insisting on the existence on Shandora until the moment of his execution, never succumbing to become the Liar history branded him as by renouncing it. That would have been the "easy" way out, and might have spared his life, and 400 years of ridicule. -
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Wow. I didn't know that there was such deep messages in OP.
@The:And that Rayleigh is admirable by choosing not to kill himself?
If anything Norland is admirable because he held on to his convictions, insisting on the existence on Shandora until the moment of his execution, never succumbing to become the Liar history branded him as by renouncing it. That would have been the "easy" way out, and might have spared his life, and 400 years of ridicule.Norland is indeed admirable for what he has done but you misunderstood Rayleigh's importance. He is not admirable for not killing himself; he is admirable for seeing hope where there is none. After the Pirate King's death, he could have wasted his life drinking and other stuff but instead he was waiting. He was waiting for the right person and that person was Luffy. He made himself useful by teaching the next generation of his strength and that is what makes him admirable. It's his actions of impacting people long after his prime and youth.
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People are having interesting, educated, involved, passionate debates about these characters, whilst I just photoshopped him into a car. I feel like I'm letting the class down.
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if it's Gan Fall's car you are forgiven
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People are having interesting, educated, involved, passionate debates about these characters, whilst I just photoshopped him into a car. I feel like I'm letting the class down.
Trust me you're the star of this thread. I'm just ruining the fun, which to be honest I find amusing.
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LET'S RING THE BELL.
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@The:
The whole point of the Norland flashback is that its a tragedy. The ending is supposed to be miserable, so that Luffy can fulfill the promise with the ringing of the bell.
Fair enough, still it could have been tragic without surrender.
Also, I don't see how Noland "lost hope", or "Surrendered to fate", he was simply unable to do anything about his situation: Imprisoned, branded a traitor and subjected to an unfair trial. Are you saying he chose to get executed?
Yes, he could have fought. He was like the pirate king willingly imprisoned although for very different reasons. I think he was the strongest warrior of his kingdom by far.
And that Rayleigh is admirable by choosing not to kill himself?
yes.
If anything Norland is admirable because he held on to his convictions, insisting on the existence on Shandora until the moment of his execution, never succumbing to become the Liar history branded him as by renouncing it.
His nature as a scientist and discoverer would not allow that.
That would have been the "easy" way out, and might have spared his life, and 400 years of ridicule.
Nah, he would have been killed either way if anything a confession only helps in this matter.
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rings the bell loud and proud
Actually the Skypiea flashback arc is one of the several that made me go "WHY COULDN'T LUFFY HAVE BEEN PRESENT THEN ;_______;"
Handsome man save me from the monsters.
Avatar credits to rcerione
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if it's Gan Fall's car you are forgiven
Trust me you're the star of this thread. I'm just ruining the fun, which to be honest I find amusing.
Thank you, that's kind, but honestly, I am just being silly. I value the in-depth conversation and find it really interesting
Also Huon's campaigns were better than mine.
moooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooon
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Fair enough, still it could have been tragic without surrender.
What exactly did you want? Noland to go out in a blaze of pointless glory, fighting his own kingdom? Him being denounced a liar on the execution platform is the most poignant, tragic conclusion he could get. The flashback ending with Norland roaming the seas as an obsessed criminal hobo endlessly searching for Shandora would have been really really weird.
Yes, he could have fought. He was like the pirate king willingly imprisoned although for very different reasons. I think he was the strongest warrior of his kingdom by far.
What? We know nothing of the circumstances of either Nolands arrest, nor his ranking on the "lynell kingdom power scale". And what does it matter? He was an explorer not a criminal, and striking out against his kingdom would bring him nothing. What would it accomplish? How would it bring Shandora back? How would it make Noland any less infamous?
yes.
@Red:
Norland is indeed admirable for what he has done but you misunderstood Rayleigh's importance. He is not admirable for not killing himself; he is admirable for seeing hope where there is none. After the Pirate King's death, he could have wasted his life drinking and other stuff but instead he was waiting. He was waiting for the right person and that person was Luffy. He made himself useful by teaching the next generation of his strength and that is what makes him admirable. It's his actions of impacting people long after his prime and youth.
Lumping these two together: I really don't see why you attribute so much significance to this particular aspect of Rayleigh. Its not like the Post Roger world was a dystopian nightmare land, where not killing yourself deserves applause. If anything Rayleigh was incredibly passive; Other Roger crewmembers like Shanks and Buggy kept trucking by themselves, and age is no excuse for Rayleigh, considering the active roles Garp or Whitebeard maintained. Compared to everyone else, Rayleigh decided to sit down, drink for 22 years, and wait for "the chosen one" I guess. He essentially treated himself to an early retirement. That…doesn't require much self sacrifice or effort. Unless its revealed that 99% of the Gold Jackson crew formed a suicide pact out of sheer misery after Rogers death, Rayleighs actions aren't particularly grand or special.
His nature as a scientist and discoverer would not allow that.
Yeah. Noland was a scientist and discoverer, not some sort hot headed of vigilante pirate warrior. And how does that make his convictions any less admirable, because they were in character? His whole deal was appealing to reason, and sticking to the truth.
Nah, he would have been killed either way if anything a confession only helps in this matter.
The only thing sticking to the truth got Norland was 400 years of being ridiculed for his Fairy-tale depiction as a moronic buffoon. Norland denouncing Shandora would not have gotten him pardoned, but it certainly wouldn't have made his situation worse.
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@Red:
Norland is indeed admirable for what he has done but you misunderstood Rayleigh's importance. He is not admirable for not killing himself; he is admirable for seeing hope where there is none. After the Pirate King's death, he could have wasted his life drinking and other stuff but instead he was waiting. He was waiting for the right person and that person was Luffy. He made himself useful by teaching the next generation of his strength and that is what makes him admirable. It's his actions of impacting people long after his prime and youth.
Hahahahaha
I don't think you understood what Rayleigh was doing on Sabaody for 22 years.
He wasn't anxious to rear a new generation. He was just chillin'. Of course, once the SHs walked over and nearly got massacred, he intervened.
I know there's the eye scar and the sword and being in Roger's crew, but Rayleigh is NOT Shanks.
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Honestly, I find Rayleighs choice of just sitting out the story, and instead kicking back as a boozing carpenter in tropical bubble wonderland to be one of his more endearing traits. I wish it was played up more, as a full on hedonistic old man stereotype, in the vein of Jiraiya or Kame Sennin. I guess its Odas way of balancing out his crazy overpoweredness.
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Oh, please. This is a manga about the nature of freedom. Political freedom. That it lies somewhere in between police states' view of law and order "the world government" and total anarchy "most pirates". The law as some greedy king sees it isn't worth respecting.
Fair enough, still it could have been tragic without surrender.
Yes, he could have fought. He was like the pirate king willingly imprisoned although for very different reasons. I think he was the strongest warrior of his kingdom by far.
I don't really see how Noland going up against the kingdom of his birth, the kingdom where his family lived, the kingdom he'd sailed the world under the name of and the kingdom he was loyal to would somehow be admirable. Just because the king himself was little more than a greedy idiot, doesn't mean everything he stands for and the country he stands at the head off is not dear to Noland. I mean even though it was so costly and challenging, Noland still took the king to Jaya with a crew of unseaworthy soldiers. Oh, not to mention Noland thought it acceptable to keep the King's ship afloat at the cost of his life (that's the only CLEAR evidence of Noland's great respect for his kingdom). So, he should abandon all of that, spring a little chaos into his nation, endanger his family and companions in order to meet up with Calgara again? Nah. If Noland could have 'resisted', it would have come at the most unpleasant kind of cost, for little more than personal reasons.
yes.
You know, Rayleigh's friend and captain was dying … slowly, and decided to end it all by turning himself in. It was the end of a long road and that end had been in sight for a long time. All of Roger's crew were people who had sailed with him to the end of the world! Did they have anything to go back to after the crew disbanded? No. They were unburdened outlaws. Of course all they were going to do was go about life - in Rayleigh's case drinking and gambling, with a little ship-coating on the side. I struggle to see why the most natural thing to do after all that deserves so much respect.
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This is hilarious. It woudl never sway my vote, but it's hilarious.
I like how Ganfor looks like he's closely examining the dashboard.
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C'mon. Let's get the next match going. I got to campaign for Zeff.
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THE BELL HAS BEEN RUNG
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GG. Rayleigh goes back to his booze drinking habits while Montblanc Norland advances on to the second round!
I want to believe too big guy3ds code friend:0404-6254-1866