inconsistent story lines are not a "tiny thing", its kinda the main reason the series is failing so hard
Naruto and Bleach IV- Sexy time
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Besides, even if they were common, that doesn't make them any less grating.
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Plot holes don't exist in a series that isn't even finished yet, I suppose. There's still time for the author to address and fill them up, even if it's already too late in the story or even if the explanations themselves don't make sense. It's the thought that counts.
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Sure, Kishi can still explain it with cheap retcons.
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Aren't plot holes things that are discontinuous with the story's logic and not necessarily "this has yet to be explained"?
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People love to throw around the word "plot hole" without knowing what it means.
Then again even without the plot holes, Naruto's thematic inconsistency and constant rewriting are much, much bigger issues to consider.
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For a while I’ve been considering doing a project using Bleach material. I would take general concepts and characters from Bleach and write a completely different story starting from after Ishida was introduced and they fought the Menos Grande. It would be much easier than trying to take the story as a whole and try to fix different parts up. I still don’t know if I will do it but I wanted to see if you guys are interested. I’m just going to give some general stuff about how the different Karakura friends would be included in the story, at least the ones that would be major characters.
! Ichigo: Obviously he’s still the main protagonist. Afterhaving fought Grand Fisher he wants to become stronger to beat him. While Ichigo has no clear goal other than that, he tries to balance out life with his Shinigami duties. Unfortunately Hollows seem to appear at the worst times, so it makes things really difficult, and worse yet, they are becoming harder to fight. Thankfully, he has comrades to help him. Fighting powers and stats: He has a large sword to strike hollows with. He has a high offensive ability with his large sword but it’s hard to wield at times, and he’s not that fast. He has to make sure he hits his target or he’s defenseless on incoming attacks.
! Rukia: Slowly she is gaining her powers back. SS, knowing of the situation, allows her to stay. Hollows are becoming more frequent in the area, but due to the small forces of SS, they can’t send anyone else there, since they are spread across the rest of the world. Rukia is the tactician. She doesn’t fight, but she learns about the hollows and makes a plan for everyone else to execute.Because the real world is so different from SS, she gets impressed by things very easily. She is quirky but very formal and polite. As she spends more time with the group she becomes more open.
! Chad: Chad is quiet around most people because he’s from a completely different country, and he’s not comfortable yet around most other people. Because of his early friendship with Ichigo he does start warming up to others, but slowly. Despite his shyness, he will protect others, and risk his own self to make sure no others are hurt. He is also quite intelligent, despite appearances. Fighting power and stats: His right arm changes when confronting hollows. He can concentrate his spirit power into his fist and either use a powerful punch, or shot the energy to hit hollows far away. Because of how bulky he is, he’s the slowest member, but he has the highest endurance of anyone.
! Orohime: She’s friendly and outgoing, and while very booksmart, can be very clumsy. However in battle her demeanor changes and she doesn’t falter. She’s friendly with everyone, even those who others might think are questionable (Ichigo). Her best friend is Tatsuki, who have been friends since Middle School. They are inseparable, because through good times and bad, are always watching each other. Orohime has a simple dream, she wants to open herown bakery so she can see people smile from her baking. Fighting Powers and Stats: Orohime is the most versatile fighter of the group. She is a jack of all trades when it comes to power, speed, and endurance. She can attack enemies, shield others, or even heal minor wounds with her fairies.
! Ishida: After having fought with Ichigo, he has come to respect him, but he is still quite anti-social. He is slowly warming up to everyone. Ishida still hopes to one day to rebuild the quincy clan. In this story, the Quincies were wiped out due to a massive hollow attack, which few survived. While Ishida can be calm, when fighting hollows he loses focus because of how they wiped out his clan. This causes some of the group at times to question whether he should be part of the fighting group. Fighting Power and stats: Ishida is also a jack of all trades, and has a variety of tools to help him. He mostly uses his bow and arrow to attack from long distances, but if hollows get close, he has other ways of dealing with them close range.
! Tatsuki: She’s a tomboy who loves martial arts, and if you piss her off you’ll be crying. She is very protective of Orohime, who she considers to be like a sister. After being saved by Orohime, Tatsuki feels that she has failed. Worse yet is that Orohime goes to fight off hollows, and she can’t help. Rather than getting hung up about it, she finds Kisuke Uruhara, who helps her unlock her ability to fight hollows. She hopes to one day to become a martial artist champion, and fighting hollows will certainly help her with that. Fighting power and stats: Tatsuki used both speed and power effectively to both attack and dodge at close range. Despite always being close to a hollow she keeps her composure.
! Keigo: He’s a goofball who no one takes seriously. He’s below average at school and tries his best to avoid confrontation, due to having to deal with his sister back at home. While he lacks a lot of things, he is very upbeat. When everyone else is down, he is able to brighten everyone else up. While he seems immature, at times he can be the most mature of the group. Fighting Powers and stats: He has very low endurance and power, however his speed is greater than everyone else. Keigo is less of a fighter and more of a supporter, by setting traps and changing the tide of battle.This is just the basic ideas for how these characters will work. Some of the other human characters might play some minor roles, not dealing with the fighting. My plan would be to focus on the real world for the time, building each of these characters up. I would also try to incorporate other parts of the world. I plan for some of the other Shinigami to show up,but how they would play into the story is hard to say (Ikkaku is the one Shinigami I really want to bring in). No Aizen stuff, no long rescue arcs, much better characterization.
What do you guys think? I might try to type up a few chapters to give a better idea. If you like the idea tell me and I’ll try to have some stuff soon.
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People love to throw around the word "plot hole" without knowing what it means.
This. Hell, even at the respective Wikipedia page we have the following example:
@Wiki:
- In Gremlins, mogwai can't eat after midnight, but it's never mentioned when they can start eating.
How is this supposed to be a plot hole?
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Well, because it is either an important part that never got properly explained and/or a part that the way it got explained doesn't really make any sense.
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@Bartholemew:
How is this supposed to be a plot hole?
In this case, there's no telling as for how long this "After Midnight" deal is. It creates paradox since what comes after midnight is just another day (right?). It's like saying "Mogwais can eat today before midnight, but at the same time they can't because it's already past midnight from yesterday." I've never watched it btw so I don't know the details.
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@Purple:
Aren't plot holes things that are discontinuous with the story's logic and not necessarily "this has yet to be explained"?
Plot holes are logical parts of the plot that clash with others, one can not exist with the other.
Now, I don't remember very well, but I think that Naruto in fact had some plot holes in the past, but I believe that with the passing of time Kishimoto corrected all, or majority of them.
In the end it is important that in any given time of the story there isn't any plot holes, even if they are corrected later, is bad that they ever existed.Of course, Naruto quality drop has less to do with plot holes(that are something really grave, but becomes harder to not do with increase of complexity(even though I would call Naruto a really complex story …)), but more to do with the quality of the plot in itself.
Kishimoto like a lot of mangakas, know how to write interesting things, but don't really now how to write well, in terms of quality. Mangakas normally focus more in the art and less in the writing. The writing basically has to be something cool, and that is it. Unfortunately in the shonen demographic, that is most of the times the only thing that is needed, something cool. -
But in order to be a plot hole it has to be a paradox that cannot be reconciled with any explanation.
I don't want to say that the given explanation is that great, but it's in no way a unsolvable paradox . You could just say that they can eat from 12 o'clock onwards at the noon. (It's been awhile since I watched it, however, unless they eat at around 10~11 o'clock p.m. I cannot see any unsolvable paradox here.)
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People love to throw around the word "plot hole" without knowing what it means.
Then again even without the plot holes, Naruto's thematic inconsistency and constant rewriting are much, much bigger issues to consider.
It could be argued that thematic inconsistencies are plot holes.
For example, passing the message that working hard people can surpass geniuses, but always showing that geniuses are better than people that work hard, can be seen as a plot hole, because those two plot points(the message and what is shown) clash with each other, creating the inconsistency/hole.Some rewriting, if not done well, can be considered plot holes as well. For a rewriting to not be a plot hole, it has to be able to incorporate both parts, the before rewriting and the after rewriting, as logically correct. If that is not done is a Plot hole.
A easy way to do a rewriting without plot hole, is saying that the "before rewriting" part, wasn't really what was perceived, but something totally different, something that would result in the same end of events, but that now makes sense with the "after rewriting" part.–- Update From New Post Merge ---
In this case, there's no telling as for how long this "After Midnight" deal is. It creates paradox since what comes after midnight is just another day (right?). It's like saying "Mogwais can eat today before midnight, but at the same time they can't because it's already past midnight from yesterday." I've never watched it btw so I don't know the details.
The "After Midnight" is a McGuffin, basically a plot point that is important during a period of the story story, basically just to progress the story, other than that is not explained in detail nor referred again. There is nothing logically wrong with "after Midnight". In the movies it just means that you shouldn't give food to them at night, being the start of "night" midnight.
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The "After Midnight" is a McGuffin, basically a plot point that is important during a period of the story story, basically just to progress the story, other than that is not explained in detail nor referred again. There is nothing logically wrong with "after Midnight". In the movies it just means that you shouldn't give food to them at night, being the start of "night" midnight.
I think I get it. But to me it still translates to "Mogwais shouldn't be fed at all" going with that vague rule, lol. But since you said that the rule only served as plot convenience, I guess I can take it as "Mogwais must not be fed within a vague duration starting from midnight to whenever the plot allows Mogwais to be fed or else they die and the story ends there."
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How about the plot hole that Madara supposed give both his eyes to baby Nagato yet now was revealed that he sacrifice one of his eyes to cheat death, so how come there's two magical eyeballs running around if he sacrificed one of then?
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None of those things are really plot holes, the things you listed are tiny things common in a lot of anime, especially one piece.
Ugh, if I had a dime for every time I heard THIS…..
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How about the plot hole that Madara supposed give both his eyes to baby Nagato yet now was revealed that he sacrifice one of his eyes to cheat death, so how come there's two magical eyeballs running around if he sacrificed one of then?
He actually sacrificed his right, but upon awakening, he got his right eye back as Rinnegan. And then, he gave on one to baby(?) Nagato (dafuq man, does the eye socket even fit). But in flashback, Nagato was shown to awaken Rinnegan instead of having one all along (I might be wrong on this). Nagato's other eye was always covered by hair, so I assume the other one is normal eye. The 6 Pains were exceptions since they're just proxies, not with real eyeballs.
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I see two eyes. -
Young Nagato is plunged into a world of pain!!
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http://i50.tinypic.com/2sbo1i1.jpgI see two eyes.
Thanks for the correction. Okay, I give up. Trying to make sense out of that mess is just a waste of time and energy. It could be Madara's Rinnegan infecting Nagato's other eye and turned it into one for all I care. Nothing about eyeballs in Naruto ever made any sense since Uchiha introduced "Plug 'n Play" feature.
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The funny part is Gremlins 2 actually made fun of the vagueness of the "after midnight" bit itself. Poked a lot of fun at its own weirdness. Discussed what if they traveled through timezones or whatnot.
Anyway,given its mystical nature and the old man saying it, I always figured "After midnight" actually meant not the literal clock time, but… after mid-night. So not after the absolute middle of the night and before sunrise. (Since the sun kills them that's obviously when they'd be non-susceptible). It's probably not meant to be 12:00 on the dot specifically, (especially since clocks and timezones can vary) but with the shifting of the moon and solstices and such, the length of night can vary between 8 and 12 hours depending on if it's summer or winter or location on the globe.
So the bad time for the mogwaii and "the dead middle of night" can probably vary between 12:01 and 1:47 as when the bad time actually starts, so "after midnight" is just a general good safety shorthand, or a more literal "mid-night", rather than a precise scientific measurement.
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My biggest problem with Naruto, besides the quality of the plot, is the way the plot develops week after week.
A quick example that i think most people can relate too: Itachi.At first he was a bad guy. Evil genius dude that killed his clan for unknown reasons. Ok
Then it was revealed that he was a good guy, and that, for some reason, he was the one forced to kill his clan to avoid some war or shit (why him and not someone else? Weren´t there any capable ninjas? And did they really have to eliminate the whole clan? W/e).
Then he was a good guy and Sasuke survived because he loved him.
Then Tobi was actually after all of this.
But wasn´t it Danzo that ordered him to do so?
Where the hell did Tobi came from in the middle of this?I´m sure someone that actually follows Naruto with a lot of attention can explain how much of an idiot I am and how the whole Itachi thing makes a lot of sense, but that´s not the point.
This is a Shonen Manga. Isn´t it supposed to be directed at teens?
Naruto just has too many details, and useless ones. Using Bivigel´s explaination, a lot of McGuffins´s: things that seem important at some point and then totally lose relevance.
The thing is, after those things lose relevance, they are still in the plot and only serve to make it more confusing.Naruto not only has too much information, it can´t present it in a simple and effective way that makes people remember it without having to reread the whole thing again with a lot of attention.
I read OP, HxH, Fairy Tail, Ippo, Jojolion, Bleach, TOG and some more.
I´ve read D.Gray Man, FMA, Gantz and others that have ended.
I never had so much difficulty following a plot like i have with Naruto.
It´s like the information gets presented to you almost like a side note and then BAM, all of a sudden it´s super important and you have to know about it.I remember that about the Kyuubi chackra division thing.
It was first mentioned in a really vague way by some random character i don´t remember. Then it suddenly was something really important to the plot. And is there any difference between the Yin part and the Yang part? Is one more evil than the other or some thing? And was there really any need to make things more complicated?
If the user died, wasn´t the Bijuu supposed to die too? Than how come the other part of the Kyuubi did not die with Minato?I genuinely stopped caring at some point. Keeping up with all the stuff that goes on in this manga is a pain in the ass.
Oh God, and the Sharingan…
At first it was only awakened by 3 individuals and it had 2 techs (Amaretsu and Tsukuyomi) + one ubber secret one (Susanoo)
AND A WILD IZANAGI APPEARS
THIS IS THE LAST ONE GUYS I SWEARAHAH JK LULZ HERE´S KAMUI AND KOTOAMATSUKAMI
Wait, did i say the more someone uses the Sharingan, the more their vision gets weaker? Forget that.
Oh, and that Super secret thing that only 3 individuals managed to use? Kakashi and Danzo have it too.
Yeah, and Obito.
And Shisui for some reason.Alright, i´m gonna stop this.
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My biggest problem with Naruto, besides the quality of the plot, is the way the plot develops week after week.
…yep, pretty much. Kishi is throwing out "reveal" after "reveal" each week to "spice up" this final showdown, including ad-libbing the final villain and motivations!
I'm pretty sure that if you told someone reading Naruto during Zabuza or the Chunnin Exams that the final villain would be some ancient rabbit lady whose kin reincarnated in Naruto and Sasuke and who can get distracted by the former turning into naked men, they'd laugh at you for like an hour.
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I'm pretty sure that if you told someone reading Naruto during Zabuza or the Chunnin Exams that the final villain would be some ancient rabbit lady whose kin reincarnated in Naruto and Sasuke and who can get distracted by the former turning into naked men, they'd laugh at you for like an hour.
If someone back then told me that, I would have thought that the setting would make sense in context and would be awesome and emotional and funny. :(
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If someone back then told me that, I would have thought that the setting would make sense in context and would be awesome and emotional and funny. :(
scratches head Er…
well either way, the contrast between Naruto before chapter 100 and now, before chapter 700, is a jarring one.
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scratches head Er…
well either way, the contrast between Naruto before chapter 100 and now, before chapter 700, is a jarring one.
No, I think El-Matematico is right. Like Robby's been saying, it makes sense that the sexy technique could be something used against the final boss who may or may not be someone ridiculous. It was Naruto's first technique that he himself conceived so it's a back to basics thing.
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@Purple:
No, I think El-Matematico is right. Like Robby's been saying, it makes sense that the sexy technique could be something used against the final boss who may or may not be someone ridiculous. It was Naruto's first technique that he himself conceived so it's a back to basics thing.
Weird, I never thought of it like that. Hmm…
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Well, back at chapter 1 Sexy no Jutsu worked on Sarutobi, for an important plot point(stealing the forbidden scroll), so why not work with the Rabbit Moon queen?
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I really would have been okay with it as the final move as a full circle thing, especially as a surprise distraction that hadn't been seen in 400 chapters.
I really would have.
As just the gag to start the fight though its kinda what-the-hell.
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- The 9 tails killed a lot of ninjas and it took a sacrifice by one the best shinobis of all time to seal it. Every other time we see another tailed beast they get owned… One tail, all it took was a Genin and a Summon; the fish beast, a couple of Deidara bombs. Those are some weird power levels
-The whole elemental chackra thing. It´s a pretty big deal. In fact so big, that you would think they would teach to the young ninjas early... Naruto learned about this after 3 years? No word from Kakashi? Jiraya? To they give so few fucks about Naruto that they can´t even teach this?
I also remember Kakashi saying that every Jutsu somes from these groups, except for the blood line guys, but what about Shikamary shadows? Chouji fat man techniques? Kiba´s thing? Are those earth? Wind? Fire? Because i simply cannot tell.The 1 tail is the weakest biju, and other jutsus like Shikamaru's and Choji's do not use elemental chakra. They use Yin and Yang chakra. It's all there on the wiki. Regarding plot holes just go here: http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/PlotHole
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I really would have been okay with it as the final move as a full circle thing, especially as a surprise distraction that hadn't been seen in 400 chapters.
I really would have.
As just the gag to start the fight though its kinda what-the-hell.
I feel like culturally the Japanese really have a knack on goofy gags, so it's always been so goddamn strange how awkward Kishimoto is with it.
Even unfunny Japanese humor tends to feel genuine and natural, Kishi is so forced.It's like watching a British person fail at being dry.
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@God:
Regarding plot holes just go here: http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/PlotHole
Thanks for reminding. Lol, how could I forget to check that page for better examples. Apparently some of things we addressed qualify as Plot Hole (Naruto growing up with no guardian, Madara used Susanoo with no eyes etc). Rejoice, people. One Piece has no article in Plot Hole section! Not yet!
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An example of plot holes is the age of the jonin. Kakashi supposedly became a genin at age 6, but in the flashback that showed how he got his sharingan, he was older when he became a genin. And some younger characters were also his age (I remember that Anko should have been 1 year old when Kakashi got the rank, but she appeared like a 10 year old).
Another: After Sasori died, Tobi went with Zetsu to look for the body for some reason. Tobi wanted Sasori's ring. Tobi was acting stupid the whole time and asking Zetsu if he could join Akatsuki if he had the ring. The scene doesn't make sense at all since Zetsu knew Tobi was Obito working for Madara, and Obito knew he himself was Akatsuki's leader and also that Zetsu was created by Madara (even if it later was "revealed" that it wasn't the case).
Also, what happened with Susano'o's sword sealing its targets like it did to Orochimaru? After that his sword became totally normal.
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Ugh, if I had a dime for every time I heard THIS…..
The things such as how Naruto grew up alone, you see that kind of stuff a lot in OP
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The things such as how Naruto grew up alone, you see that kind of stuff a lot in OP
Who grew up alone in OP?
Luffy was taken care of my Garp and Dadan
Nami was raised by Bellemere
Sanji was taken care of by Zeff and those other chefs beforehand
Chopper was ostracized by his Reindeer pack and raised by Hiruluk
Robin was in the care of her aunt, etc.The only ones I can think of are maybe Zoro and Usopp after his mother died, but it doesn't really matter. It does matter with Naruto because it makes some of these supposedly good-willed characters who could've taken care of Naruto look like creeps, and…well, someone would've had to have taken care of Naruto from infancy and it raises the question of when and why they stopped.
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Also, what happened with Susano'o's sword sealing its targets like it did to Orochimaru? After that his sword became totally normal.
It was Itachi-exclusive, although he did manage to seal Nagato afterwards.
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The things such as how Naruto grew up alone, you see that kind of stuff a lot in OP
Being OP what? One Piece? No you don't see that at all.
Luffy -> Childhood wasn't revealed, only in his flashback, but that was after the events of the first chapter. Note that it was shown that the people of the village helped Luffy, for example Makino fed him.
Coby -> At least after being caught by Alvida, she was his guardian XD. Before that is not revealed.
Zoro -> Childhood was not revealed, but we're shown to him constantly training in a dojo.
Nami -> It was totally shown that she grew with Bellmere.
Ussop -> It was shown that he grew with his mother. After her death nothing is said, but he was older enough to survive alone in some way, and the people in the village all liked him.
Kaya -> Fathers, after their deaths Merry and Klahador.
Sanji -> It wasn't revealed. But we know that at some point he became a cook apprentice and after that it was Zeff.
Chopper -> Animal group, but at some point he was expelled. After that alone, than Doctor, than Doctorine.
Vivi -> Family.
Robin -> Mother, Aunt, Alone(from place to place).
Franky -> Pirate Dad and than Tom.
Brook -> Not revealed.
Note: In One Piece the characters that we don't know how they grew that topic was never touched, making it just unknown. In Naruto, Naruto and Sasuke childhood is always being touched and is always answered with alone and everything shown takes that as basis. While Sasuke can still be believable, by a stretch, because what happened when everybody in his clan died? He got alone? Is a little hard to believe that, unless we believe that Konoha village is negligent. But Naruto is totally impossible. From newborn Baby to 13 years old boy, all alone? That is impossible.
P.S: Funny thing. With the introduction of Sai in Naruto, it is said that Konoha has an orphanage(Kabuto went into an orphanage as well. In konoha or somewhere in the fire country.), but Naruto and Sasuke(after his clan annihilation) grew alone!
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Not that I really care any more, but right now Nagato is the only one whose soul is sealed away somewhere - preventing him from going to afterlife for all times?
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I believe Zoro was an orphan child and was taken care by the Dojo he was training under. It's up to debate, but he definitely had parents taking care of him at some point. Usopp was a child too when he lost his mother, but his neighbors actually were not so cold-hearted to leave him alone starving over some childish lies, especially when they were meant to comfort his belated bed-ridden mother.
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The things such as how Naruto grew up alone, you see that kind of stuff a lot in OP
Luffy: Dadan and the bandits. Also in a tiny village as opposed to a massive militarized city.
Zoro: We don't know.
Nami: Arlong creepily enough. Also in a tiny village as opposed to a massive militarized city.
Usopp: Also in a tiny village as opposed to a massive militarized city.
Sanji: Had a job on a ship, then with Zeff.
Chopper: Kureha
Franky: Tom
Robin: Various organizations that kept being destroyed. Before that her aunt.
Brooke: I unno.Naruto being in the middle of a huge city and living alone from birth and having it not explained is bullshit and lazy.
We don't really need to know how Usopp or Nojiko managed. They live in tiny villages, the neighbors will make sure they're alright. That sort of thing doesn't happened in cities. Hell he had his literal own apartment where he apparently had his own groceries and shit. What the fuck was going on.
Was he cared for by ninja social security? Shouldn't he have been in like an orphanage or some sort of institution then? Because he was fucking 12 years old and younger, and clearly not mature? -
To honor the son of the 4th Hokage, we're giving him his own apartment at age one month. He'll sort himself out, don't worry - bootstraps and all that.
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You can go through a stretch to explain Zoro, usopp, robin and franky's childhood, but not Naruto? :getlost: Naruto went to school and also probably had others taking care of him, the leaf wasn't that big. As you guys said, we don't know -.-.
How did Robin make it to these organisations alone at 8 years old, and she was alone at sea after Ohara. Franky was alone before Tom took him in. Zoro again is unexplained, but it's ok. So is Usopp.
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You see in all the other villages, even if they hate their jinchuriki like Killerbee and Gaara, they still tried to take care of them and train them as valuable war assets. Naruto they couldn't give less of a shit despite being a hokage's son, container of the most powerful beast, and the sole decedent of the "famous Uzumaki clan" (I assume nobody in the village knew about Karin or Nagato, which also made no sense.)
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You can go through a stretch to explain Zoro, usopp, robin and franky's childhood, but not Naruto? :getlost: Naruto went to school and also probably had others taking care of him, the leaf wasn't that big. As you guys said, we don't know -.-.
How did Robin make it to these organisations alone at 8 years old, and she was alone at sea after Ohara. Franky was alone before Tom took him in. Zoro again is unexplained, but it's ok. So is Usopp.
Let's see.
Baby:
Naruto -> Father and Mother died in his first day of life. He lost the direct people that would take care of him.
Zoro -> Unknown
Ussop -> Father and Mother lived with him. Father went away sometime around this time and when Ussop was still a kid. Mother took care of him.
Robin -> Mother took care of her until around 1-3 years. After that Aunt.
Franky -> Pirate Dad and probably also mother(I don't remember if Franky said Tom that it was only his dad or parents).Kid Life:
Naruto -> Alone. Note that this is multiple times said by Naruto, the multiples melancholic flashbacks he has of his childhood(For example: Him playing with Chouji, Chikamaru and Kiba and in the end he doesn't have a place to go and anybody to take care of him, when the others have.) and the inner thoughts he has. And No, he wasn't taken care of by the third Hokage! That was something of the One-Shot. In the Naruto serialized manga he doesn't ever think of the Hokage has anything like a father figure nor as a guardian, he doesn't even know about the Third Hokage family. For example he doesn't know about Konohamaru existence, kid that is always after his grandfather, until he turns into Genin. Nor he knows about Asuma, nor anybody from Sarutobi family. He only remember of the Hokage as the old guy in the school that would scold his group of friends(Chouji, Shikamaru, Kiba) when they would do something stupid(This is explicitly said by Naruto when Sarutobi died).
Zoro -> Student from a Dojo.
Ussop -> Mother died. Started screaming that pirates were coming. Called a liar by everybody in the village. Created his pirate group with the kids of the village and played with them every day.
Robin -> Old lady took care of her, in exchange for work with the cows and other stuff, before betraying her. Guy and woman took care of her before betraying her because keeping her was dangerous and because of her huge bounty. Garbage dump starving. Pirate found her and took her has his apprentice before the Marines from Headquarters found about that and attacked his crew, he tried to turn her over, but she had already run away. It was showed she running from town to town, some people would try to catch her, others would send her away, even when she was asking for food.
Franky -> Father or parents left him, because he was a trouble kid. Certainly they were irresponsible parents(or only father). Tom found him.Teen Life:
Naruto(13 years) -> In some apartment, with everything he needs. Alone, not only he said that to Iruka face but do you remember after the Genin test? The parents/legal guardians went there for the promotion of the kids. Naruto had nobody. I believe that was the first sad scene from the manga and anime of Naruto.
Zoro(age unknown) -> Left to the sea looking for Mihawk, couldn't find his way back to is home, turned into a Pirate Hunter.
Ussop(until 17? I time that Luffy group found him) -> Still playing with the kids of his fictional pirate crew. Still screaming about pirates arriving in the island. Met Kaya and started telling her stories.
Robin(since 16 years) -> Looking for work in organizations. Started betraying them. Crocodile found her and ask her to join his organization.
Franky(age unknown?) -> Tom died. He was almost killed as well. Turned into Cyborg.Childhood references during the progress of the story:
Naruto -> All the time with the theme of being alone all his life. For example: Same as Iruka because it didn't had a family. Same as Sasuke because it didn't had family, but Sasuke argues that at least he knew at some time what a family was, Naruto has no idea whatsoever. Could become like Gaara because like him he was all alone and everybody hated him. And a long list of more examples.
Zoro -> Rare times referred and only about the promise he made with Kuina and Tashigi being similar with her.
Ussop -> Only one time in his arc and never again.
Robin -> In Ennies Lobby arc and after that only rarely(The only other time I remember is When the revolutionaries found her).
Franky -> Only one time in his arc and never again.Did you noticed? Naruto is strongly centered about him being alone for all of his life, turning it into a major theme in the story. The problem is that it doesn't make sense that from the space of time of Newborn Baby to Teen he was alone. But it constantly played as an important emotional aspect.
Does Zoro childhood, besides the promise with Kuina, plays any role in the story? NO!
Does Ussop childhood, besides the fact of why he started to lie, plays any role in the story? NO!
Does Robin childhood plays any role in the story? Yes! And is explained accordingly! Here the chapter with Robin childhood after the Buster Call in Ohara.
Does Franky childhood plays any role in the story? Yes, but only in the Water Seven/Ennies Lobby Arc! And is explained accordingly!Harry Potter uses the same emotional aspect as Naruto and like Naruto is also strongly centered about it: kid that lost is parents when he was still a newborn Baby. One thing that Harry Potter resolved from the start was telling how he survived/lived his childhood, Aunt and Uncle has his guardians. To still make it a sad emotional impact, they treated him very badly and always preferred their son over him. This formula, of guardians being bad guys, is used over and over and over again. Why? Because it works and makes the rest of the story and the emotional aspect of the childhood make sense. Even One Piece uses that to Robin.
Worse is that Kishimoto handled that aspect in his One-shot of Naruto. One shot that was more focused about the emotional aspect of lack friends and true friendship! -
^ Franky was 26 when Tom-san died.
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Naruto went to school and also probably had others taking care of him
Who? Who took care of him? Everyone has hated this kid's guts pretty much from birth. Who would volunteer for it? And going to school is not the same as being cared for.
the leaf wasn't that big.
Yes it is. Despite it's title as a "village" it's big enough to be a city.
How did Robin make it to these organisations alone at 8 years old, and she was alone at sea after Ohara.
She didn't join criminal organizations immediately. She did odd jobs for farmers and merchants and stuff in exchange for shelter, then did jobs for low-level pirates and then joined bigger organizations who wanted her ability to read Poneglyphs. There's even a scene where she was residing in a garbage dump. She was a vagrant in the truest sense of the word.
Franky was alone before Tom took him in.
No he wasn't. His parents raised him until they abandoned him and Tom took him in shortly thereafter.
Zoro again is unexplained, but it's ok. So is Usopp.
Very little is known about Zoro's past and it doesn't really matter. For all we know, his parents really did take care of him.
And with Usopp, again, he lived in a close knit village where people look out for each other.
With Naruto it doesn't work because Kishi has put so much emphasis on his past and how he was despised by the village and put him in this weird scenario where he lives alone in an apartment, so it's really distracting and doesn't add up.
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You can go through a stretch to explain Zoro, usopp, robin and franky's childhood, but not Naruto? :getlost:
No one is trying to explain Zoro's childhood because there's nothing to explain.
Zoro is never shown as having or not having parents. We don't know anything about his childhood other than that he went to a dojo and was friends with Kuina.
Robin what the fuck are you talking about, we know exactly who was taking care of her and then how she was living after that.
Franky also what the fuck are you talking about. His parents abandoned him and he was a little punk orphan who Tom essentially adopted.So that leaves only Usopp who was an orphan in a tiny village in the middle of nowhere not associated with so much as a single major thing.
Naruto was an orphan of HUGE profile in a massive militarized city who even had potentially dangerous powers inside of him, who apparently somehow had an apartment where he maintained groceries on his own apparently from the age of birth.
Hell we can even account for how Usopp had a house, it was the same house his mom owned when she died. This is literally shown to us.
In tiny villages it's abnormal to like, let a child starve, mostly because everyone knows everyone in tiny villages. It's pretty obvious to imagine how Usopp got by.
Naruto apparently knew nobody and had no friends or caretakers whatsoever. If he did they would be pretty goddamned important characters considering his relationship with Iruka at the start seemed to be about the only positive human contact he had on earth.
If Usopp had grown up in Water7 I'd agree with you here, but it was the complete opposite of that.Naruto went to school and also probably had others taking care of him, the leaf wasn't that big. As you guys said, we don't know -.-.
Leaf is the biggest ninja city, "5 Stars" according to the data books. So as big as possible essentially.
And just take a fucking look at it. It's a huge city.
Who took care of Naruto? Who was buying him an apartment and groceries? Why haven't we met this person?
Why hasn't this outcast who hated everyone because everyone seemed to hate him never mentioned that someone actually treated him nicely prior to Iruka.
Him going to school has nothing to do with anything at all. And he wouldn't have gone to school…from birth.
There's a massive amount of questions about something that needs explaining and doesn't make a lot of sense. But of course it just goes to show how Kishimoto was never truly very good at world building when he can't even account for basic believability like that.How did Robin make it to these organisations alone at 8 years old,
Oda literally fucking had a whole chapter about this. Don't make these terrible arguments when you apparently forgot what even happened.
She initially relied on normal everyday people taking her in as an orphan, eventually she transitioned to pirates and the like because she couldn't trust normal people. But her bounty eventually got all the people she stayed with taken out…or had them turn on her. This is shown in the manga.
And probably most of the time she lived in the streets as a homeless child. This is shown in the manga.
Are you suggesting Naruto lived in the fucking streets lol.and she was alone at sea after Ohara.
Aokiji created a complete ice path for her to some destination away from the island. He didn't just randomly put her on a boat and send her into the open sea. This is shown in the manga.
Franky was alone before Tom took him in.
Yes as a feral street punk living in the ghettos of Water7.
Again, are you suggesting something as completely retarded as Naruto having lived as a miserable street urchin? A thing completely implausible given every single thing about his characterization?
Even if we WERE to assume that, how did he get an apartment later lol.Zoro again is unexplained,
Zoro isn't fucking unexplained.
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You can go through a stretch to explain Zoro, usopp, robin and franky's childhood, but not Naruto? :getlost:
:ninja: You know what? I'll give you stretch.
Baby Naruto was actually nursed by Sasuke's mom since she's good friends with Kushina. Sasuke and Naruto initally grew up together, further emphasizing the whole "brother" symbolism. Sadly, Uchihas received great pressure from Konoha society and was accused for planning something by using Naruto, so they had Shisui used Kotoamatsukami on Naruto and made him believe that he was completely alone from the start, also on Sasuke to make him completely forget he grew up together with Naruto. Itachi just can pretend that was the case because he's good at it. Naruto was later given an apartment so he can live alone, and the money used for his daily lives all taken from Minato and Kushina's bank account. Then, Uchiha Massacre took place and everything related to Naruto's early childhood died with them.
End of story.