Volume 72 Predictions/Discussion
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This post is deleted!
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I'm pretty sure that's the character for love (恋) in Hawkins' quote… so yeah, prepare to be disappointed.
Hawkins: "What's your sign? Today, your "love luck" is…"
Law: "How many people did you kill, Drake-ya-san?"
Capone: "Military force and cosmetics are different[rest is cut off]"
Kidd: "Won't you form an alliance and have a joshikai?" [literally "girl meeting"- basically a get together among girl friends/female colleagues. Usually out at a restaurant/cafe.]
Drake: "I don't understand what's so interesting about Pacifistas" (this is the girls-don't-get-robots "joke")
Killer: "[first half is cut off]…everyone will become friends"
Bonney: "[first half is cut off]…the next rice bowl"
Apoo: "Apyapya- So you don't know of my cuteness!?"
Urouge: "Wahh it's a Tenryuubito dassa" [not sure if that final, odd copula has some sort of joke behind it] -
@CCC:
Hawkins: "What's your sign? Today, your "love luck" is…"
Law: "How many people did you kill, Drake-ya-san?"
Capone: "Military force and cosmetics are different[rest is cut off]"
Kidd: "Won't you form an alliance and have a joshikai?" [literally "girl meeting"- basically a get together among girl friends/female colleagues. Usually out at a restaurant/cafe.]
Drake: "I don't understand what's so interesting about Pacifistas" (this is the girls-don't-get-robots "joke")
Killer: "[first half is cut off]…everyone will become friends"
Bonney: "[first half is cut off]…the next rice bowl"
Apoo: "Apyapya- So you don't know of my cuteness!?"
Urouge: "Wahh it's a Tenryuubito dassa" [not sure if that final, odd copula has some sort of joke behind it]oDA WHAT ARE YOU TRYING TO DO TO US
[/death is me] -
@CCC:
Hawkins: "What's your sign? Today, your "love luck" is…"
Law: "How many people did you kill, Drake-ya-san?"
Capone: "Military force and cosmetics are different[rest is cut off]"
Kidd: "Won't you form an alliance and have a joshikai?" [literally "girl meeting"- basically a get together among girl friends/female colleagues. Usually out at a restaurant/cafe.]
Drake: "I don't understand what's so interesting about Pacifistas" (this is the girls-don't-get-robots "joke")
Killer: "[first half is cut off]…everyone will become friends"
Bonney: "[first half is cut off]…the next rice bowl"
Apoo: "Apyapya- So you don't know of my cuteness!?"
Urouge: "Wahh it's a Tenryuubito dassa" [not sure if that final, odd copula has some sort of joke behind it]I suppose given the context, Oda wants to make these lines be very gender-based and thus stereotypical, but it's still disappointing. Ah well, some of the designs are cool.
Thanks for the translations, CCC!
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@CCC:
Hawkins: "What's your sign? Today, your "love luck" is…"
Law: "How many people did you kill, Drake-ya-san?"
Capone: "Military force and cosmetics are different[rest is cut off]"
Kidd: "Won't you form an alliance and have a joshikai?" [literally "girl meeting"- basically a get together among girl friends/female colleagues. Usually out at a restaurant/cafe.]
Drake: "I don't understand what's so interesting about Pacifistas" (this is the girls-don't-get-robots "joke")
Killer: "[first half is cut off]…everyone will become friends"
Bonney: "[first half is cut off]…the next rice bowl"
Apoo: "Apyapya- So you don't know of my cuteness!?"
Urouge: "Wahh it's a Tenryuubito dassa" [not sure if that final, odd copula has some sort of joke behind it]I really want to believe he's joking…. But I'm afraid he's not :getlost::getlost::getlost:
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https://m.ak.fbcdn.net/sphotos-c.ak/hphotos-ak-ash3/q71/1385523_10200145223113458_448091281_n.jpg
Here you can read the full first chapter of the volume:
http://www.s-manga.net/omf/omf_978-4-08-870833-1.html -
Updated, now that I can see all of it:
Hawkins: "What's your sign? Today, your "love luck" is…"
Law: "How many people did you kill, Drake-ya-san?"
Capone: "Military force and cosmetics are totally different!!"
Kidd: "Won't you form an alliance and have a joshikai?" [literally "girl meeting"- basically a get together among girl friends/female colleagues. Usually out at a restaurant/cafe.]
Drake: "I don't understand what's so interesting about Pacifistas" (this is the girls-don't-get-robots "joke")
Killer: "I'm back, and I brought pancakes and macaroons. We're all such good friends, huh"
Bonney: "Donburi!! Bring the next donburi" [donburi is a rice bowl with fish or meat]
Apoo: "Apyapya- So you don't know of my cuteness!?"
Urouge: "Wahh it's a Tenryuubito dassa" [not sure if that final, odd copula has some sort of joke behind it] @Al!naJames:I really want to believe he's joking…. But I'm afraid he's not :getlost::getlost::getlost:
I never joke about my work, 007.
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Can anyone post the pirateking.es question here? Thanks.
Not going to dip my toes into another Oda gender discussion. To everyone reading it, don't internalize. Oda has his preferences and sense of beauty, and he would have been divorced by his wife and left by his 2 daughters already if he was really the person everyone is painting him as.
Also, I want Kidd to meet Iva so bad.
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@Print:
Now I'm hoping that Oda decides to use London as a setting… :ninja:
I dunno, I'm quite fond of seeing what's happening :ninja:
–- Update From New Post Merge ---
Congratz Redon and co. you guys deserve it.
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@CCC:
Updated, now that I can see all of it:
Hawkins: "What's your sign? Today, your "love luck" is…"
Law: "How many people did you kill, Drake-ya-san?"
Capone: "Military force and cosmetics are totally different!!"
Kidd: "Won't you form an alliance and have a joshikai?" [literally "girl meeting"- basically a get together among girl friends/female colleagues. Usually out at a restaurant/cafe.]
Drake: "I don't understand what's so interesting about Pacifistas" (this is the girls-don't-get-robots "joke")
Killer: "I'm back, and I brought pancakes and macaroons. We're all such good friends, huh"
Bonney: "Donburi!! Bring the next donburi" [donburi is a rice bowl with fish or meat]
Apoo: "Apyapya- So you don't know of my cuteness!?"
Urouge: "Wahh it's a Tenryuubito dassa" [not sure if that final, odd copula has some sort of joke behind it]I never joke about my work, 007.
;)Hm. I wonder why Law is the only one with a normal, in character response? Or do I fail to see the joke?
Anyway thanks for the translation CCC.
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I love the deep-thinking behind Oda's motives for this when he probably thought up the dialogue in like 5 seconds.
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Hm. I wonder why Law is the only one with a normal, in character response? Or do I fail to see the joke?
Maybe it's the -ya-san thing? I don't think he usually uses san.
I love the deep-thinking behind Oda's motives for this when he probably thought up the dialogue in like 5 seconds.
If so, all the more problematic. The idea that girl versions of characters need different dialogue at all is absurd.
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@CCC:
Maybe it's the -ya-san thing? I don't think he usually uses san.
Ah, I see. So the female version of him is polite. Ugh…
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Come to think of it, shouldn't the male Bonney be SUPER polite? Haha
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Sigh. I was afraid it would be something like that. Even FemApoo, whom I like the most because she looked the least stereotypically appearance-conscious, has an appearance specific line.
@FrankyFan:I love the deep-thinking behind Oda's motives for this when he probably thought up the dialogue in like 5 seconds.
That this is Odas default lines actually speaks volumes about the problem. Save possibly urouge, theres a completely unanimous trend focusing on
-Appearance
-Love
-Girly friendship- Not getting the guys humor
- Politeness
That the characters respective personalities would get overwritten upon genderswapping, sometimes even reversed, is bizarre. Why is "he would talk about cosmetics" a logical extension of "what if Capone was a woman"?
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@CCC:
Updated, now that I can see all of it:
Hawkins: "What's your sign? Today, your "love luck" is…"
Law: "How many people did you kill, Drake-ya-san?"
Capone: "Military force and cosmetics are totally different!!"
Kidd: "Won't you form an alliance and have a joshikai?" [literally "girl meeting"- basically a get together among girl friends/female colleagues. Usually out at a restaurant/cafe.]
Drake: "I don't understand what's so interesting about Pacifistas" (this is the girls-don't-get-robots "joke")
Killer: "I'm back, and I brought pancakes and macaroons. We're all such good friends, huh"
Bonney: "Donburi!! Bring the next donburi" [donburi is a rice bowl with fish or meat]
Apoo: "Apyapya- So you don't know of my cuteness!?"
Urouge: "Wahh it's a Tenryuubito dassa" [not sure if that final, odd copula has some sort of joke behind it]Sex in the City: Supernova Edition
Urrrrrgh… come on Oda! I know it's a fantasy pipe dream to expect badass female characters ala Two-hand Revy, Balalaika, Shenhua, or Roberta, but Seriously?!
Coming from a man who was literally raised by tough women, this is just damn irksome now.
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The stereotyping is becoming extra in-your-face, too, with every new female character. He can do unique female (face) designs, as shown with Otohime, Robin, Perona, the Amazon Lily girls, female Ivankov or even shown here female Apoo. It's so odd. At this point just seems to be trying too hard to write "girls" as if he's afraid he'd write guys in girl's bodies or something. It was still there pre-Enies Lobby-Thriller Bark to some degree, but it wasn't this extreme. I mean in Nami's backstory it was mentioned that she is a girl and all, but it wasn't pushed into your face. Vivi was a "girly" girl, but it wasn't the forefront of her character. Same for Robin or even several of the flashback female characters. Now it's just this wierd wall between female and male characters.
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Whenever Oda spews his bullshit gender stereotyping nonsense, I calm myself down by watching this video
Revy~~ :wub: :wub: :wub:
:swanson:[/love]
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The stereotyping is becoming extra in-your-face, too, with every new female character. He can do unique female (face) designs, as shown with Otohime, Robin, Perona, the Amazon Lily girls, female Ivankov or even shown here female Apoo. It's so odd. At this point just seems to be trying too hard to write "girls" as if he's afraid he'd write guys in girl's bodies or something. It was still there pre-Enies Lobby-Thriller Bark to some degree, but it wasn't this extreme. I mean in Nami's backstory it was mentioned that she is a girl and all, but it wasn't pushed into your face. Vivi was a "girly" girl, but it wasn't the forefront of her character. Same for Robin or even several of the flashback female characters. Now it's just this wierd wall between female and male characters.
Vivi was in no way shape or form a girly girl lol.
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The characters Mikasa and Morgiana are pretty good with the whole stereotype thing imo. They still have "girly" qualities, in Mikasa's case even a huge part of her character, but still don't come off as stereotypical, useless etc. But this has been debated over 100s pages on various threads already. It's just disappointing because Oda has some great stories in his series, you'd think he'd realize such stereotypes.
Girly might be a wrong word for Vivi, actually. Modest would be better. Now, I'm starting to stereotype, too, lol. I've always not understood the hate for Vivi that was going around for her at one point. She's not a badass, but has a nice character arc and even influences/teaches Luffy. A "weak" character doesn't mean a "bad" character. Reason why I like Attack on Titan's Sasha as well for example. Usopp got some crap at points for that, too. It's just how the fanbase is, I guess.
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@Al!naJames:
Light blue is not a dark tone. All fishmen have coloured skin (literally) since they are part-fish and it's light on all of them.
Forget the screentones in b/w manga, Oda only once used a slightly darker skin using colours, with Miss Monday. What lame excuse will cover that? Lack of copic markers?Deadlines? He's not happy with the skintone look he gets on darker tones? Most color pieces only feature Strawhats? It simply hasn't occurred to him that its a thing because he lives in Japan and just doesn't see that many darker skinned people? Oda decides skintone based on the black and white art and they'll appear in 99.9% of the time? He leaves that to the anime?
(And with your Miss Monday example, she's clearly black in the color image, but not toned in the actual story. So how many other characters does that apply to?)
The "you can assume them to be darkskinned" is a) offensive as hell b) doesn't work because
Yugioh had the pharaoh as not-toned for 70% of the manga's run, (and the anime) and then in the last arc suddenly started throwing tone on all the Egyptian characters. What do you make of that?
(Mind you Yugioh was a tone-heavy manga from the start, using three or four shades and patterns on every page consistently.)
@The:
That the characters respective personalities would get overwritten upon genderswapping, sometimes even reversed, is bizarre. Why is "he would talk about cosmetics" a logical extension of "what if Capone was a woman"?
Well, they WOULD come out differently and have different upbringings if they'd been born as girls.
I suppose it boils down to "What if these characters were girls?" and "What if Iva turned them into girls?" that makes the difference. A sudden gender switch wouldn't change much, while a lifelong difference… would.
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@Rogues':
Sex in the City: Supernova Edition
Urrrrrgh… come on Oda! I know it's a fantasy pipe dream to expect badass female characters ala Two-hand Revy, Balalaika, Shenhua, or Roberta, but Seriously?!
Coming from a man who was literally raised by tough women, this is just damn irksome now.
It's a throw-away joke segment. Why would he try to shoehorn gender revisionism into a comedy segment own comic book to appease a few Western liberals, and ruin the joke for everybody?
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It's a throw-away joke segment. Why would he try to shoehorn gender revisionism into a comedy segment own comic book to appease a few Western liberals, and ruin the joke for everybody?
The joke gets a little old when so many new female characters are a joke or have a gimmick on how stereotypically female they are. It's annoying.
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Can we maybe not tear the guy's head off for some random things he wrote for a quick bonus drawing ?
Even if there are issues obviously, I'm much more inclined to think he just wrote whatever came to mind atm.
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Just realized that Apoo's piano teeth look like braces, wow.
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I'm more thinking about Mikasa and Morgiana. They still have "girly" qualities, in Mikasa's case even a huge part of her character, but still don't come off as stereotypical, useless etc. But this has been debated over 100s pages on various threads already. It's just disappointing because Oda has some great stories in his series, you'd think he'd realize such stereotypes.
Who the hell are Mikasa and Morgiana.
Girly might be a wrong word for Vivi, actually. Modest would be better. Now, I'm starting to stereotype, too, lol. I've always not understood the hate for Vivi that was going around for her at one point. She's not a badass, but has a nice character arc and even influences/teaches Luffy. A "weak" character doesn't mean a "bad" character. Reason why I like Attack on Titan's Sasha as well for example. Usopp got some crap at points for that, too. It's just how the fanbase is, I guess.
Vivi is not a weak character either in any sense.
She's active, physical, involved, puts herself forward, decisive, etc.
I'm fresh off a reread. Why does everyone forget what Vivi was actually like lol.–- Update From New Post Merge ---
It's a throw-away joke segment. Why would he try to shoehorn gender revisionism into a comedy segment own comic book to appease a few Western liberals, and ruin the joke for everybody?
Hey grunk, we're gonna need you to explain what you mean by that one.
Also make sure the Russian girl hears what you mean while you go on some retarded South Park style rant about "western" liberals.
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@Monkey:
Who the hell are Mikasa and Morgiana.
I think Morgiana might be reffering to Morgiana from Magi.
A super strong female lead who despite that does not commit "comedic" violence towards the male cast, and who usually kicks things until they stop moving.
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It's a throw-away joke segment. Why would he try to shoehorn gender revisionism into a comedy segment own comic book to appease a few Western liberals, and ruin the joke for everybody?
"western liberals"
ah ha ha ha ha that's cute. True, for the most part, probably! But still cute because it makes clear in no uncertain terms where you stand.No one's asking for Japan to suddenly embrace whatever you're calling "gender revisionism" (aka mild progressivism, I assume?). Having no text at all wouldn't have "ruined" anything. Everyone would have had the requisite chuckles and moved on.
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Hahaha…it's like all of Oda's notion of what a woman is like is completely epitomized by all the little quotes he inserted for each supernova. It's freaking...hilarious.
Women are polite, think about love as well as female camaraderie and make up, and don't like guyish stuff like...lord forbid, robots. It's all epitomized here folks and maybe this is why Oda does try adding "shounen-esque masculinity" to the female aesthetics like...I dunno, freaking scars? I know Rebecca is called the untouchable warrior or something but dear god just give her a few scars or something. I mean that ONE scar on Femme Kid's face already adds a lot to the design. And that's not going into Apoo's piano braces and Drake's mask.Not all women have to be super clean pretty faces and especially NOT Rebecca if you think about it.
But...eh, I'm sure Oda's one of those kid at heart type of people while writing comics with a fixed notion on women (as well as Japanese stuff...yeah) that manifested from his childhood days or something.
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@Monkey:
Vivi is not a weak character either in any sense.
She's active, physical, involved, puts herself forward, decisive, etc.
I'm fresh off a reread. Why does everyone forget what Vivi was actually like lol.Because the anime, and her VA, made everyone remember her as a whiny, preachy buzzkill I guess. Also, her Power level was too low.
I've never minded Vivi at all. Her character is, in a word, passionate. And that passion made Alabasta what it was. The arc wouldn't have been half as good had Vivi been half as devoted.
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FUCKIN LIBERALS
MAN IM GLAD ODA ISN'T SOME SORT OF PROGRESSIVE PUSSY LOL
ID REALLY HATE THIS MANGA IF HE WAS, LIKE WITH CLASS ISSUES, VILLIFICATION OF INDULGENT RICH PEOPLE, RACIAL SENSITIVITY, GLOBALIZED PERSPECTIVE, VILLIFICATION OF NEO-CONSERVATIVE STYLE WARFARE, ETC.–- Update From New Post Merge ---
@The:
Because the anime, and her VA, made everyone remember her as a whiny, preachy buzzkill I guess
Haw! I thought so. I always wondered how everyone got so annoyed at her. Having not really watched the anime that explains that!
Vivi is cool, she's 100% fine in the manga. -
@Monkey:
Who the hell are Mikasa and Morgiana.
Vivi is not a weak character either in any sense.
She's active, physical, involved, puts herself forward, decisive, etc.
I'm fresh off a reread. Why does everyone forget what Vivi was actually like lol.I sort of half-replied to Rouge' Galley's post about Revy. Sorry, shouldn't have brought up other series, usually brings trouble.
I meant weak in the most literal sense, like Usopp, relative to others, not as a character. -
@Monkey:
FUCKIN LIBERALS
MAN IM GLAD ODA ISN'T SOME SORT OF PROGRESSIVE PUSSY LOL
ID REALLY HATE THIS MANGA IF HE WAS, LIKE WITH CLASS ISSUES, VILLIFICATION OF INDULGENT RICH PEOPLE, RACIAL SENSITIVITY, GLOBALIZED PERSPECTIVE, VILLIFICATION OF NEO-CONSERVATIVE STYLE WARFARE, ETC.I can't tell what you aggree with or not.
Cause he does have this mentality that people that are well off are inherently incorrigible, exploitative, (lit.) slavedrishing, mass murder condoning, racist assholes and anything deviating from that is an extreme exception.
Not talking only about the WN but his whole portrayl of the Goa nobility. Like not one person outside of one little kid finds it bad to burn people alive en masse.
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Heh, this is all WESTERN garbage, in Japan the girls are all subservient and quiet and nice to me I bet. Unlike the awful women here who call me names like "stalker" and "unhygenic"… one day when I get that ticket to Tokyo I'll get my very own waifu free of gender revisionism~
And when I drone on about Ron Paul she will nod her head, smiling, the whole time…
dreams of a libertarian Japan -
@No:
I can't tell what you aggree with or not.
Cause he does have this mentality that people that are well off are inherently incorrigible, exploitative, (lit.) slavedrishing, mass murder condoning, racist assholes and anything deviating from that is an extreme exception.
He's saying that Oda seems to embrace core liberal values, so saying "Hurr hurr casual misogyny is cool because liberalism would make this manga suck" makes no sense.
In the end, this single issue really seems at odds with everything else that Oda tries to say. Rather than the nature of the treasure on Raftel, this is the true mystery of One Piece.@Monkey:
Heh, this is all WESTERN garbage, in Japan the girls are all subservient and quiet and nice to me I bet. Unlike the awful women here who call me names like "stalker" and "unhygenic"… one day when I get that ticket to Tokyo I'll get my very own waifu free of gender revisionism~
And when I drone on about Ron Paul she will nod her head, smiling, the whole time…
dreams of a libertarian JapanThis is scarily accurate about several guys that I met over there. And some dolts I meet back in the US whose first comments about Japan are "Eh heh heh I hear dey've got some real traditional goyls over dere who know how to really satisfy a man."
I just smile and nod and never talk to those people again. -
Men are decisive, strong, and brave.
Like me Grunk, the guy who shitposted and ran immediately.–- Update From New Post Merge ---
It's particularly pissing me off though cuz Alina lives in a non-western country (basically) where gender roles are really awful, to the point that gay folk are treated like slime in ways that would make Japan blush.
And this dumbass libertarian comes in and dismisses the talk as plush western suburban liberalism.
Hey fuck you grunk. -
Ugh, those quotes made it even worse.
Please if someone redraws them to be more accurate lemme know.
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@Strеlоk_:
Damn that Oda, not knowing how his characters should look or what should they say.
Strelok does it bother you that someone already did the "bad boy returns in multiple accounts" thing way better than you in every conceivable way and even eventually returned welcomed to the community with more than what he had before, which will never happened for your boring run of identical diet coke versions of that?
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@The:
Because the anime, and her VA, made everyone remember her as a whiny, preachy buzzkill I guess.
What? The Funimation dub?
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@Monkey:
Vivi is not a weak character either in any sense.
She's active, physical, involved, puts herself forward, decisive, etc.
I'm fresh off a reread. Why does everyone forget what Vivi was actually like lol.What are your thoughts on Conis? It seems like she's another who got around the "gender veil."
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@Monkey:
Strelok does it bother you that someone already did the "bad boy returns in multiple accounts" thing way better than you in every conceivable way and even eventually returned welcomed to the community with more than what he had before, which will never happened for your boring run of identical diet coke versions of that?
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Maybe Oda doesn't realize what he is saying/doing is offensive and problematic. Since members of this community have had luck making contact with him before through the SBS, perhaps a letter bringing these issues to his attention, and giving him a chance to change or defend his actions is in order?
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@Strеlоk_:
Damn that Oda, not giving his genderbent characters the face and body diversity and characteristics they had in their original male bodies. A muscular and scarred man as a muscular and scarred female? Unthinkable. Strong shaped nosed young female? That isn´t cute! Rude, rough, evil females? Not on my One Piece!
Fixed it for you.
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What? The Funimation dub?
Naw, the original. I could be wrong, but the VA always pitched her lines in the range of "strained semi-shrieky emotional seriousness", and the fillers did nothing but promote that image. Like with Satori, sheer auditory annoyance is the only possible explanation I can find for the massive hatred of an otherwise perfectly fine character. I've always seen her anime attitude as the "HO HO HOOOOO~" of Vivi; something to spark immediate dislike, which is completely absent from the written manga.
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I am complaining because I know Oda can do better than this. If you are on a forum you gotta understand there´ll be people who don´t like everything you do. And I have my reasons not to like this.
But like hell I´m going to stop reading my second favorite manga just because I didn´t liked a SBS.