Chopper's forms

[electricmastro]

@desa:

The organization was secret until Alababasta with even someone like Robin flying under the radar of the government. So Zala actions are most likely unknown. Which made her an unknown figure defeated by an unknown figure. But Crocodile threat level is known to the government from his public pirating days and Daz bone threat level is known from his public bounty hunting days.

If your question was rhetorical and its just something that bothers and you wanted to point out thats fine. But if its a genuine question about no else getting bounties during Alabasta Daz being a known figure prior to his to his baroque days is the most relevant info in what makes him different from other Baroque workers. BUt you can also add the goverment relunctance to give bounties or that it was supposed to be swept under the rug so they didnt want to give out so many bounties.

–- Update From New Post Merge ---

It isnt explained.

I reman, it doesn’t bother me, but I guess it does make me wonder when she received her bounty of 35 million then if she really is an unknown figure.

[desa]

@electricmastro:

I reman, it doesn’t bother me, but I guess it does make me wonder when she received her bounty of 35 million then if she really is an unknown figure.

I would assume the steps and forces she defeated to escape established her threat level. Same way Bentham suddenly had one. Bounties if rat guy is any indication are from data collected by the government agents. Beating marines and escaping from their prison is a good way for the marine to notice what you can do.

[Zik]

@DollarScholar:

But Rob Lucci in his Cheetah form looks nothing like a human, etc. That was the point. The average zoan user can transform completely into their animal form to the point they are indistinguishable from a regular animal.

Get what you're saying and agree. Chopper's closest human transformation would have you assume he's a mink.

But maybe the zoan human form Chopper is more of an ancient zoan and isnt a modern day human but more of a caveman type/homo-erectus who were more hairy?

It'd be interesting if Oda had Chopper transform in to a mostly hairless human. Probably would still have a blue nose though. Also interesting nobody has requested that in a SBS.

[jeyone4212]

Hello there. I'm a new user and I just wanted to ask some questions like any other One Piece fan, since there are still many things that I don't get yet. Please comprehend me. Thanks!

1. What are the major mysteries of the series?
2. What arcs are left in the series?
3. Were the rest of the crew and the revolutionaries present during the Marineford arc?
4. Do you think that during the Final War arc they will be present?
5. Correct me if I’m wrong, but the main characters have never attacked the World Government itself, just some locations that work under it, like the 3 major strongholds, Enies Lobby, Impel Down and Marineford, right?

[Zar]

@jeyone4212:

Hello there. I'm a new user and I just wanted to ask some questions like any other One Piece fan, since there are still many things that I don't get yet. Please comprehend me. Thanks!

1. What are the major mysteries of the series?
2. What arcs are left in the series?
3. Were the rest of the crew and the revolutionaries present during the Marineford arc?
4. Do you think that during the Final War arc they will be present?
5. Correct me if I’m wrong, but the main characters have never attacked the World Government itself, just some locations that work under it, like the 3 major strongholds, Enies Lobby, Impel Down and Marineford, right?

1. These are the most major ones I can remember. There's plenty more, but these are the ones that stand above the others in my opinion.

• What is the treasure One Piece?
• What happened during the Void Century?
• What does D stand for and what exactly is the Will of the D?
• Who is Vegapunk?

2. Nobody knows. All we know is that the manga is nearing it's end.
The most common guess is at least two more arcs, Elbaf (the land of giants) and then the Final War Arc. Another popular idea is an arc dedicated to Vegapunk.

3. None of them were present during the Marineford Arc. The crew was stuck on small islands and I don't recall the revolutionaries involving themselves.

4. 100% yes. I can't see that arc happening without them.

5. I'd say so, yes. The World Government capital is in Mary Geoise and the Strawhats haven't touched that place. They did however burn down the World Government's flag at Enies Lobby which could be seen as a direct attack on the organization.

–- Update From New Post Merge ---

Oh, and welcome to the forum!

[bokode4819]

Hello there. It's me once again. I couldn't go back to my previous account so I had to create a new one instead. I have very few questions about the series now. Thanks!
1. Has Eiichiro Oda really been writing and illustrating the series ever since 1997? Has he really been doing this to nowadays?
2. Where is Pluton? Nico Robin supposedly knows but has never made this clear to us the readers nor told to any other character either. It's quite the matter, since it really hasn't been revealed to this very day.

[electricmastro]

@bokode4819:

Hello there. It's me once again. I couldn't go back to my previous account so I had to create a new one instead. I have very few questions about the series now. Thanks!
1. Has Eiichiro Oda really been writing and illustrating the series ever since 1997? Has he really been doing this to nowadays?
2. Where is Pluton? Nico Robin supposedly knows but has never made this clear to us the readers nor told to any other character either. It's quite the matter, since it really hasn't been revealed to this very day.

Yeah, Oda draws anything that moves, with backgrounds largely being drawn by assistants, though with his vision in mind. He has also always written the series as well, all of this due to presumably how passionate he is.

Not sure where Pluton is. The Alabasta poneglyph apparently revealed where it is, but it was never further elaborated on.

[Zik]

What is Gecko Moria's pirate epithet?

Why don't we know Gecko Moria's pirate epithet yet?

[puffing.cinema]

Until now, he doesn't have one.

[Zik]

@puffing.cinema:

Until now, he doesn't have one.

So Moria is like Roger?

I find it weird (and disappointing) either could make it to 300 million without a nickname given to them by the Marines or their victims/opponents.

[puffing.cinema]

Yeah, when he was introduced back in TB some scan somehow translated his title as Shichibukai as Lord of the Deeps or something among these line. Oda just could not bother I guess…is his Vivrecard out already? Maybe there's some juice in it.

[Zik]

Would Zoro be enamored with Hancock's beauty and subject to petrification?

I think not which would had him to a much longer list than I thought.

[desa]

@Zik:

Would Zoro be enamored with Hancock's beauty and subject to petrification?

I think not which would had him to a much longer list than I thought.

I would assume it works on any male of the crew except Luffy & Chopper. At least pretimeskip. with haki being a thing its possible Zoro would be fine.

[Deicide]

@Zik:

Would Zoro be enamored with Hancock's beauty and subject to petrification?

I think not which would had him to a much longer list than I thought.

I'd say it doesn't. Zoro's personality is just opposite to kneeling over beauty.

[desa]

I dont think Momonga seems that much less dutiful. He seemed to find her demeanor very annoying and was dedicated to accomplishing his mission but he still needed to stab himself.

[Deicide]

@desa:

I dont think Momonga seems that much less dutiful. He seemed to find her demeanor very annoying and was dedicated to accomplishing his mission but he still needed to stab himself.

It's just my personal take on it, but I feel Momonga had to stab himself exactly because he was so dutiful. Like, he wouldn't need it, but he wasn't going to take any risks during such an important mission.

[Zik]

@desa:

I would assume it works on any male of the crew except Luffy & Chopper. At least pretimeskip. with haki being a thing its possible Zoro would be fine.

Yeah, I tried to keep haki out of it ever since Law's ability wouldn't work on the yonkou cuz of their haki.

Just Zoro as a man and his personality falling for Hancock's beauty doesn't seem likely.

Only time I've seen him react close to that (in that realm at least) was when he first met Tashigi given her striking resemblance to Kuina.

–- Update From New Post Merge ---

@Deicide:

I'd say it doesn't. Zoro's personality is just opposite to kneeling over beauty.

If we open the door, there's more. I don't see Mihawk or Whitebeard falling for her.

If Hancock's beauty in relation to her devil fruit is more about sexuality than appreciating beauty then Bentham, all the okama, probably Iva, and a longer list don't react all fall prey to her either but the kuja definitely fell for it and who is to say which way they swing.

[desa]

I guess rule of cool and being a main character would protect Zoro even if I personally find it inconsistent especially with the Momonga case that clearly had his head on his shoulder and yet still felt a threat from it.

Between the amazon ladies and Momonga I feel Handcock should work on anyone straight male except extreme circumstances.

[Deicide]

@Zik:

If we open the door, there's more. I don't see Mihawk or Whitebeard falling for her.

Neither do I. I always thought the original use of her power was greatly amplifierd for comedic purposes, but people took it too seriously. I feel there's plenty of non-fodder guys that are either immune or at least resilient to it. Which then forces her to use more violent applications like Perfume Femur or Slave Arrow. These abilities would work on anyone, but can also be dodged or resisted by experienced fighters.

[Zik]

@desa:

I guess rule of cool and being a main character would protect Zoro even if I personally find it inconsistent especially with the Momonga case that clearly had his head on his shoulder and yet still felt a threat from it.

Between the amazon ladies and Momonga I feel Handcock should work on anyone straight male except extreme circumstances.

With that mustache Momonga is a big perv deep down inside that changed his ways right after he became a vice admiral.

At least that's my backstory for him.

[Gol D. Silvers]

With minimal marine presence in Wano, how will the defeated beast pirates be taken off the island? Alabasta and Dressrosa had marine presence, Fishman Island's enemies were imprisoned internally and the rest were converted I think as members of the army…
Skypeia can't recall...

[Zik]

Enel left, his priests all basically chose new careers. They weren't seen as criminals to imprison and they didn't try to take over in Enel's place.

[Deicide]

Actually, the priests were exiled. I remember some talk when the battle was over that the Skypieans would put them on a ship and throw them away (probably off the clouds).

For the Beast Pirates, they'll probably be exiled as well. "You submit, you leave or you die", probably. I also can see Tama giving a choice to the gifters: stay and help Wano, or leave.

[Zik]

I find it funny as weak as the Skypeians were the priests even agreed with the exile.

Same for Beast pirates. The scabbards would be outnumbered and the top of the tobi roppo and top officers would defeat them.

It'd have to be the defeated agreeing to leave for it to make sense.

[Deicide]

@Zik:

I find it funny as weak as the Skypeians were the priests even agreed with the exile.

I need to find in which chapter was it, but if my memory is right they just rushed to the priests while they were unconscious to put them on a boat before they woke up.

Same for Beast pirates. The scabbards would be outnumbered and the top of the tobi roppo and top officers would defeat them.

It'd have to be the defeated agreeing to leave for it to make sense.

Don't forget that the Wano people have plenty of cuffs thanks to all the working camps.
Beat them, get them to surrender, then offer the choice: submit, leave or die.
Most pirates would rather flee than try their luck anyway.

[Zik]

@Deicide:

I need to find in which chapter was it, but if my memory is right they just rushed to the priests while they were unconscious to put them on a boat before they woke up.

Don't forget that the Wano people have plenty of cuffs thanks to all the working camps.
Beat them, get them to surrender, then offer the choice: submit, leave or die.
Most pirates would rather flee than try their luck anyway.

This is only assuming the Beast pirates are weak enough to be subdued and shackled. They'd have to get them right after they're defeated. Especially the likes of Queen, King, Jack, Ulti, and Who's Who.

All it would take is one of them rounding up all the numbers, pleasures, and gifters that weren't turned or betrayed Kaido and they'd be enough to fight back and even reclaim some dominance in Wano. Not to mention Kaido

The beast pirates aren't most pirates. They're the crew of a yonkou. They're not going to run from the ppl of a country they've subjugated for 20 years.

It'd take the ppl of Wano having a much bigger upper hand. They're not going to just run as if they're Wapol and his crew.

The Baroque Works members didn't even run after defeat.

[rayleigh92]

@Deicide:

I need to find in which chapter was it, but if my memory is right they just rushed to the priests while they were unconscious to put them on a boat before they woke up.

Kamakiri or Laki said it in ch 300.

The "where the bad guys will end" issue is real though. With the whole "(almost) no one dies" thing, it's always been a matter of escamotages or Marines cleaning the mess up, but higher the villain higher the risk.

• Alvida was Team Rocket-y thrown away, just as much as Buggy and Wapol. Eventually returned;
• Morgan arrested and now free;
• Buggy Pirates fled. Eventually returned;
• Kuro and Krieg Pirates fled and we don't know any of them;
• Arlong Pirates arrested. Eventually Hatchan went good and returned;
• Baroque Works arrested. A lot of them returned anyway;
• Bellamy left on the ground and eventually returned;
• Enel fled; Priests condamned to exile and Gedatsu is actually free (I mean, Gedatsu was a good devil, but what if we'd get Ohm running wild on Arabasta?);
• Foxy fled;
• the whole CP9 has been left on the ground, then fled and at least two of them returned, with the others probably free;
• Thriller Bark pirates left on the ground. Moriah returned, Hogback unknown, Perona returned, Absalom died off-screen;
• the whole Summit War saga was Luffy playing on other's battlefield, so no one need to flee if not himself;
• New Fishmen Pirates arrested. Wadatsumi fled and went good;
• Caribou is actually still on the stage;
• Caesar kidnapped and now free. Monet and Vergo died;
• Most of Donquixote Family has been arrested. Baby 5 went good;
• Big Mom Pirates and Beasts on the stage;

On seventeen group defeated, thirteen are free to still be an issue sooner or later, three arrested.

And no one can be really sure Arlong (likely not) or Doflamingo will not actually make a return, so the only one actually resolved is Hody's group as they're literally too old to do anything.

[Deicide]

The Beasts Pirates are so large that losing their leader would naturally lead them to break down into smaller pirate groups. Same with Big Mom Pirates, there would probably be a lot of sibling rivalry over who takes over what in Tottoland.

So, the question really is what happens to the leaders, especially Kaido and Big Mom.

[Zik]

@Deicide:

The Beasts Pirates are so large that losing their leader would naturally lead them to break down into smaller pirate groups. Same with Big Mom Pirates, there would probably be a lot of sibling rivalry over who takes over what in Tottoland.

So, the question really is what happens to the leaders, especially Kaido and Big Mom.

I'm pretty sure Katakuri would easily get all of his siblings in line if he wanted to be captain of the Pelican-Eel Pirates.

We already know a good deal of them love their brother and the rest respect him. Besides all he'd have to consider defeat Oven and maybe Cracker so any rebellious siblings wouldn't even try.

Beast Pirates though, in ways that's a bigger headache but less of a threat as they use to be. That crew splitting in to factions spells doom for the first half of the grand line. They're just powerful enough to take over some islands just like Wano.

And even worse case scenario is if they break up in to factions just to join or ally with other yonkou.

[Deicide]

@Zik:

I'm pretty sure Katakuri would easily get all of his siblings in line if he wanted to be captain of the Pelican-Eel Pirates.

He'd easily get the most followers, but like most families battling for spoils, some siblings will probably have their own ambitions and try to make their own path, be as captains, or joining other crews, or doing other non-piratey things entirely. Oda already has shown inner conflict between siblings a few times, and even the discussion of Perospero vs Katakuri as successors was brought by the siblings once.

And someone like Katakuri could very well just want to care for the nation rather than start a pirate crew of his own. Maybe Tottoland becomes a bona fide nation and tries to play nice with other countries when Mama is gone.

It's not a simple matter of "this one becomes successor, everyone else falls in line". A breakup between rival siblings, with each getting its own followers, is way more likely. Even if the "Katakuri pirates" become the major group easily, there could still be rival "Perospero pirates" or "Cracker pirates" that go on to sea to form their own legacies. Whatever new setup that comes out of such inner disputes will take some time to solidify, giving any nations like Wano time to get their defenses ready.

[Zik]

@Deicide:

He'd easily get the most followers, but like most families battling for spoils, some siblings will probably have their own ambitions and try to make their own path, be as captains, or joining other crews, or doing other non-piratey things entirely.

Whatever new setup that comes out of such inner disputes will take some time to solidify, giving any nations like Wano time to get their defenses ready.

I just find a hard time seeing any noteworthy Charlotte sibling defecting or disobeying Katakuri.

I feel like if Linlin died at the end of Wano there'd be a seamless transition in Totto Land.

Outside of Oda's quirky choices like Perospero wants to run a pet store.

[Deicide]

@Zik:

I just find a hard time seeing any noteworthy Charlotte sibling defecting or disobeying Katakuri.

I feel like if Linlin died at the end of Wano there'd be a seamless transition in Totto Land.

Outside of Oda's quirky choices like Perospero wants to run a pet store.

It's impossible to have a seamless transition in Tottoland because the land is run under BM's powers. The kingdom would need to adapt. Eventually, the homies would die out and no new ones would come.

Besides, the children have their own ambitions. Some are leaders, some fall in line. Different siblings would follow different leaders. Some would leave. Each would make their own plans, it takes time for things to settle down. That's how it works in a real family, I don't see reason to believe the Charlotte family to behave like a hive mind, especially when we already saw conflict within the family several times. Big Mom put everyone in line, without her there would the a lot of rebellions.

[Zik]

@Deicide:

It's impossible to have a seamless transition in Tottoland because the land is run under BM's powers. The kingdom would need to adapt. Eventually, the homies would die out and no new ones would come.

I don't see why that would stop the seamless transition to Katakuri as leader.

I'm also not going to assume anything about the homies Big Mom creates and if or when they may die. We don't know any facts about her powers to say one way or the other what would happen with that.

Besides, the children have their own ambitions. Some are leaders, some fall in line.

Who?

Or better yet who are the leaders that will challenge Kat and succeed? Or is this just a sort of run away in the middle of the night thing?

Different siblings would follow different leaders.

Who?

I don't really recall any Charlotte siblings that stepped as leaders in WCI other than a good deal of them praising Katakuri.

Some would leave.

Are you assuming they'd be allowed to leave as if they can leave now under Big Mom?

Or do you think Katakuri is some big push over? Or if any who would back him or lose to him (Oven, Peros, Cracker, etc.) would let others leave?

Each would make their own plans, it takes time for things to settle down. That's how it works in a real family, I don't see reason to believe the Charlotte family to behave like a hive mind, especially when we already saw conflict within the family several times. Big Mom put everyone in line, without her there would the a lot of rebellions.

I don't see any reason why Katakuri wouldn't or couldn't immediately quash all of that and take control.

You talk of other families as if the Charlotte family is a normal one. I don't get it when we only know of the likes of Lola running away from the family and damn near the entire family hates her for it.

The only time Charlotte siblings rebel is when they think they can get away with it.

[desa]

@Zik:

The beast pirates aren't most pirates. They're the crew of a yonkou. They're not going to run from the ppl of a country they've subjugated for 20 years.

It'd take the ppl of Wano having a much bigger upper hand. They're not going to just run as if they're Wapol and his crew.

The Baroque Works members didn't even run after defeat.

Well Luffy, Law and their crew would still be there for the aftermatch. Law has a reputation as ex shichibukai and Luffy has an ex warlord under him. And they would have just beat a yonko. Its probably enough to convince them to leave without trouble. And supposedely getting back to Wano is a pain to invade because landing a boat there. It would probably something they wouldnt be that interested in when there's probably easier land to take over.

–- Update From New Post Merge ---

@Zik:

I just find a hard time seeing any noteworthy Charlotte sibling defecting or disobeying Katakuri.

I feel like if Linlin died at the end of Wano there'd be a seamless transition in Totto Land.

Outside of Oda's quirky choices like Perospero wants to run a pet store.

Werent there already starting to be tension on the boat after Big mom disappeared? The respect and instinct to listen to a parent isnt the same for a sibbling. There's more an equal standing there and more willingness to stand up to them. And also there's the part where Big Mom was a scary monster that could kill you at anytime while Katakuri is an honour man that harmed himself to have a fair fight with the enemy.

[Zik]

@desa:

Well Luffy, Law and their crew would still be there for the aftermatch. Law has a reputation as ex shichibukai and Luffy has an ex warlord under him. And they would have just beat a yonko. Its probably enough to convince them to leave without trouble. And supposedely getting back to Wano is a pain to invade because landing a boat there. It would probably something they wouldnt be that interested in when there's probably easier land to take over.

This is where the suspension of disbelief breaks and the realization of just beating up bad guys and not killing them (cuz they can't really keep all of them locked up).

Then enters the whole strawhats and Law stick around. Its a problem ppl just ignore but if you think about it's the easiest way to get your way.

Luffy beats Kuro. Luffy leaves. Kuro comes back and kills Kaya cuz why not?

Krieg (assuming Gin doesn't stop him), Arlong after escaping, Wapol, and Enel espexially.

Oda tends to have some bad guys be beat and also give up their goal/ambition and it's not all the time sensible.

If all the Beast Pirates are beaten but still together just minus Kaido they're probably not going to be captured. So lets say they leave. What's stopping them from immediately coming back and waging war when Luffy, Law, and Kid leave? Its something pirates actually do.

Werent there already starting to be tension on the boat after Big mom disappeared? The respect and instinct to listen to a parent isnt the same for a sibbling. There's more an equal standing there and more willingness to stand up to them. And also there's the part where Big Mom was a scary monster that could kill you at anytime while Katakuri is an honour man that harmed himself to have a fair fight with the enemy.

Typical sibling squabbling.

All it'll take Katakuri to beat them in to submission. Might makes right unless you think those that oppose him will just run away.

[desa]

@Zik:

This is where the suspension of disbelief breaks and the realization of just beating up bad guys and not killing them (cuz they can't really keep all of them locked up).

They have seastones and the toppi roppo and all stars and kaido are fruit users. So they could. They probably wont but they could.

Then enters the whole strawhats and Law stick around. Its a problem ppl just ignore but if you think about it's the easiest way to get your way.

Luffy beats Kuro. Luffy leaves. Kuro comes back and kills Kaya cuz why not?

My point was that making them leave should be fine since Luffy and Law being around and having beaten a yonko should be enough incentive to get.

Now on why they wouldnt come back. 1- Wano is a pain to get to. Its easy for them right now because they control the ports and have systems 2- the crew has a terrible loyalty system and exist because they believe in Kaido as the strong that would lead them to victory. Without him they would probably break up pretty fast. 3-because they never come back as you comment on Kuro and others mention.

If all the Beast Pirates are beaten but still together just minus Kaido they're probably not going to be captured. So lets say they leave. What's stopping them from immediately coming back and waging war when Luffy, Law, and Kid leave? Its something pirates actually do.

They stay together because Kaido is the strongest. Without Kaido they wouldnt have much reason to stay together. Queen tried to kill them for fun. And they can try to get recruited by other yonko.

Typical sibling squabbling.

All it'll take Katakuri to beat them in to submission. Might makes right unless you think those that oppose him will just run away.

I doubt the new leader would be decide in a 1 v 1 match. there's such things as alliances and back stabbing or simple manipulation. Or not wanting to work for a sibbling. Its not like Katakuri has shown any desire for the throne or an unwillingness to work with others. And I dont picture Katakuri capable of murdering one of his sibbling to make them all kneel and reestablish Big mom reign of terror.

He could stay on top or could not.

[Zik]

@desa:

They have seastones and the toppi roppo and all stars and kaido are fruit users. So they could. They probably wont but they could.

LOL. Are we still talking about the Wano citizens and samurai? They've always had access to that.

It's not even about will they. I don't think they could successfully do it. Between the likes of Black Maria and Sasaki alone.

My point was that making them leave should be fine since Luffy and Law being around and having beaten a yonko should be enough incentive to get.

Yeah I'm talking about the ppl of Wano and Beast pirates after the strawhats leave.

Now on why they wouldnt come back. 1- Wano is a pain to get to. Its easy for them right now because they control the ports and have systems 2- the crew has a terrible loyalty system and exist because they believe in Kaido as the strong that would lead them to victory. Without him they would probably break up pretty fast. 3-because they never come back as you comment on Kuro and others mention.

Last reason isn't a real reason lol.

If that's the case you can just say cuz Oda doesn't do that.

They stay together because Kaido is the strongest. Without Kaido they wouldnt have much reason to stay together. Queen tried to kill them for fun. And they can try to get recruited by other yonko.

They stay together cuz Kaido is stronger than them.

I'll wait for Oda to kinda show the Beast Pirates aren't going to just ditch Kaido after this like with Crocodile, Buggy, Whitebeard, Wapol, and Ace weren't after losing before him.

Thinking about it, only captain that lost or ditched their crews didn't want to be a pirate (Kuro) or was a loser (Bellamy).

I doubt the new leader would be decide in a 1 v 1 match. there's such things as alliances and back stabbing or simple manipulation. Or not wanting to work for a sibbling. Its not like Katakuri has shown any desire for the throne or an unwillingness to work with others. And I dont picture Katakuri capable of murdering one of his sibbling to make them all kneel and reestablish Big mom reign of terror.

He could stay on top or could not.

I didnt say anything about 1 v 1.

Katakuri could beat them 5 on 1. Group attack. Gauntlet.

Doesn't really matter. Besides most wouldn't even challenge him.

[wolfwood]

Would he interesting to see the BM kids duke it out. Cracker seems like a good contender for outlasting the rest, of course it depends on his strategy

[DollarScholar]

This post is deleted!

[rawrfizzz]

Question. Why did Doflamingo's subordinates keep saying Law was a traitor and had betrayed them like they were surprised about it? Did they really think he still worked for them all those years later? The fuck?

[desa]

@Zik:

LOL. Are we still talking about the Wano citizens and samurai? They've always had access to that.

It's not even about will they. I don't think they could successfully do it. Between the likes of Black Maria and Sasaki alone.

I mean I think they can put cuffs on Ulti laying on the ground. Same for all the others. Thats what the marines do all the time after Luffy defeated them. The problem isnt keeping them in a cage its weakening them enough to put them in a cage which is what the battle is for.

Yeah I'm talking about the ppl of Wano and Beast pirates after the strawhats leave.

Last reason isn't a real reason lol.

If that's the case you can just say cuz Oda doesn't do that.

I mean they can cuff them while they are there.

But talking why they wouldnt return I you were saying its a thing pirate actually do but we've never seen them try to reconquer lost territory.

I also I gave other factors like the difficulty of getting into Wano. Or that the crew is based on Kaido's great might so them staying together is unsure. There's others like them knowing an official alliance between strawhat Luffy and the country of Wano. Or being busy not being picked off by other crew that want to exploit their current weakness.

They stay together cuz Kaido is stronger than them. I'll wait for Oda to kinda show the Beast Pirates aren't going to just ditch Kaido after this like with Crocodile, Buggy, Whitebeard, Wapol, and Ace weren't after losing before him.Thinking about it, only captain that lost or ditched their crews didn't want to be a pirate (Kuro) or was a loser (Bellamy).

Well those crew exist by choice. The kaido pirates are a bunch of forced conscript and they believe in might make right not so much loyalty. They can easily disassemble for looking for the new strongest team or just plain wanting their freedom.

I didnt say anything about 1 v 1.

Katakuri could beat them 5 on 1. Group attack. Gauntlet.

Well now we just disagree.

Doesn't really matter. Besides most wouldn't even challenge him.

I mean if Pespero asked Katakuri to be his second in command I've seen nothing to indicate he would refuse. However I can see him needing to kill Pespero to make him stop challenging his rule and I dont think he can.

–- Update From New Post Merge ---

@rawrfizzz:

Question. Why did Doflamingo's subordinates keep saying Law was a traitor and had betrayed them like they were surprised about it? Did they really think he still worked for them all those years later? The fuck?

I guess they assumed Law lost their address. Very delusional bunch.

[rawrfizzz]

It just always bugged the shit out of me. I felt like maybe I had missed some information.

[Zik]

@desa:

I mean I think they can put cuffs on Ulti laying on the ground. Same for all the others. Thats what the marines do all the time after Luffy defeated them. The problem isnt keeping them in a cage its weakening them enough to put them in a cage which is what the battle is for.

That's my whole point. We're not talking about Wano citizens descending upon knocked out Beast pirates.

That hypothetical is just not worth considering.

I mean they can cuff them while they are there.

No they couldn't. Beast pirates would kill them.

But talking why they wouldnt return I you were saying its a thing pirate actually do but we've never seen them try to reconquer lost territory.

Pirates raid and plunder towns. Its a thing they do.

I didn't say anything about reconsidering territory but thats also an option given the ppl.

I also I gave other factors like the difficulty of getting into Wano.

Not really worth considering given they've done it.

It was difficult to get to a sky island but i have no doubt the strawhats could do it again. Why can't a new world pirate crew, better yet crew of a yonkou cant return to Wano? Oda didn't even bother showing Kid's or Law's crew, Big Mom or Whitebeard's crew get to Wano despite us all knowing its difficult.

Or that the crew is based on Kaido's great might so them staying together is unsure.

I did address this speculation.

Or being busy not being picked off by other crew that want to exploit their current weakness.

More reason to stay in Wano.

Well those crew exist by choice. The kaido pirates are a bunch of forced conscript and they believe in might make right not so much loyalty. They can easily disassemble for looking for the new strongest team or just plain wanting their freedom.

Yeah and after years of being together can just as easily choose to stay together in some form.

I mean the pleasures just up and betrayed Kaido cuz of Queen. Doesn't seem like most of Kaido's crew are actively being forced to be on the crew. Sasaki and Who's Who were actively looking to move up within the crew's hierarchy.

This isn't some pirate crew solely held together by Kaido's fear mongering. Especially if they all agree might makes right.

Well now we just disagree.

Its been pretty clear you seem to underestimate Katakuri

I mean if Pespero asked Katakuri to be his second in command I've seen nothing to indicate he would refuse.

Ummm yeah, Oda does make it a habit to have the strongest character be second to the weaker character. Just think of all the examples:

Enel and Gedatsu, Kuro and Jango, WB and Marco or Ace, Crocodile and Mr. 1, Luffy and Usopp, Law and Bepo, Kaido and King, etc.

Peros and Kat will fit right in.

However I can see him needing to kill Pespero to make him stop challenging his rule and I dont think he can.

Would just need to beat his ass publicly which he could do easily.

[desa]

@rawrfizzz:

It just always bugged the shit out of me. I felt like maybe I had missed some information.

I had similar feelings and was surprise when the flashback didnt include him going back.

[Zar]

@desa:

I had similar feelings and was surprise when the flashback didnt include him going back.

You'd figure they'd get the hint when he's flying a flag designed to mock their own. That said I agree they're probably delusional, so stuck in their family-think they treat him more like a moody teenager going through a phase.

[desa]

@Zik:

That's my whole point. We're not talking about Wano citizens descending upon knocked out Beast pirates.That hypothetical is just not worth considering.
No they couldn't. Beast pirates would kill them.

I thought we were talking about how to deal with beast pirate after Onigishima. People like king and queen or kaido would have been knock out by Luffy, Zoro, Sanji. And they would still be around while they are dealing with rounding up the beast pirates.

If it wasnt what we are talking about then we had our wires crossed.

Pirates raid and plunder towns. Its a thing they do. I didn't say anything about reconsidering territory but thats also an option given the ppl.

We've seen pirate raid easy prey and bail when its get difficult. But they would need to be so obsessed with a country with hard access, several elite fighters and strong allies. There are dozens of places easier then this. Like that island Drake took over by himself. I guess they could have more pride then anyone we've seen before but I feel the fear from seeing Kaido lose would be their biggest take away.

Not really worth considering given they've done it. It was difficult to get to a sky island but i have no doubt the strawhats could do it again. Why can't a new world pirate crew, better yet crew of a yonkou cant return to Wano? Oda didn't even bother showing Kid's or Law's crew, Big Mom or Whitebeard's crew get to Wano despite us all knowing its difficult.

First time Kaido came Orochi opened the country and made them cooperate similar thing with Kidd. Whitebeard and Luffy boat crashed, Big Mom's didnt make i. The only one that made it easy was Law but he has a submarine that avoids the difficulties of navigation.

Navigating dozens of ships to properly reinvade would be a big operation. Its not so much that its impossible just that its so difficult its not something to do on a whim.

More reason to stay in Wano.

But they would be kick out from Wano and biding their time to return to it. Not just be chilling there. Wouldnt it be simpler to just invade a weak country if conquering a place is that important to them?

I did address this speculation.Yeah and after years of being together can just as easily choose to stay together in some form.I mean the pleasures just up and betrayed Kaido cuz of Queen. Doesn't seem like most of Kaido's crew are actively being forced to be on the crew. Sasaki and Who's Who were actively looking to move up within the crew's hierarchy.This isn't some pirate crew solely held together by Kaido's fear mongering. Especially if they all agree might makes right.

I guess they could but the constant mention of betrayal by kaido, the way people keep turning in this battle and the way he recuits people I feel the flimsiness of the bond of that crew has been a theme. Even Sengoku mentioning they are a barbaric bunch hold by Kaido's strength.

Its been pretty clear you seem to underestimate Katakuri

I mean I dont think expecting to lose if for example Cracker, Pespero and Smoothie decided to take him on is selling his strength short. He's quite powerful and win any 1 v 1 in the crew. I just dont expect him to take on that many powerful opponent at once as I would expect it more from yonkos or admirals.

Ummm yeah, Oda does make it a habit to have the strongest character be second to the weaker character. Just think of all the examples:

Enel and Gedatsu, Kuro and Jango, WB and Marco or Ace, Crocodile and Mr. 1, Luffy and Usopp, Law and Bepo, Kaido and King, etc.

Peros and Kat will fit right in.

Are we talking in-universe or what Oda would do? Because I dont think Big Mom is gonna lose her crew.

Katakuri hasnt exactly shown much interest in being in charge. Just a a desire to protect his family and great honour. Whereas someone like Pespero seems a lot more interesting in making the big decisions. I dont see much to assume he would beat him senseless to be the one making the decisions. And I imiagine Pespero with the ability to play dirty to get his ways.

Would just need to beat his ass publicly which he could do easily.

I mean you dont have to give just because you are weaker. I imagine a internal conflict would involve more then that. Like who has the best decision making and choosing when best to attack and all that or even making deals but I guess we can just go with plain strongest is leader.

[wolfwood]

The only thing lord potato starch would be doing in that five versus one scenario would be foreseeing just how much his ass is about to be beaten. There is probably no one i would bet on in a five against one among equals. Maybe if someone in OP turns out to have ze warudo type powers, otherwise it is just too poor odds

[desa]

@Zar:

You'd figure they'd get the hint when he's flying a flag designed to mock their own. That said I agree they're probably delusional, so stuck in their family-think they treat him more like a moody teenager going through a phase.

Its kinda sad to see how much they trusted family and how that bit them in the ass.

[Zik]

@desa:

I thought we were talking about how to deal with beast pirate after Onigishima. People like king and queen or kaido would have been knock out by Luffy, Zoro, Sanji. And they would still be around while they are dealing with rounding up the beast pirates.

Yeah but I was also talking about nom-strawhat involvement.

Like they're (the ppl, the samurai, hell even the pirates) not rounding up the likes of King, Queen, Jack, Sasaki, etc. It would be a pretty dumb decision.

We've seen pirate raid easy prey and bail when its get difficult. But they would need to be so obsessed with a country with hard access, several elite fighters and strong allies. There are dozens of places easier then this. Like that island Drake took over by himself. I guess they could have more pride then anyone we've seen before but I feel the fear from seeing Kaido lose would be their biggest take away.

Given the size of Wano I still find it hard that they would even leave the country when they could retreat to so many other places.

First time Kaido came Orochi opened the country and made them cooperate similar thing with Kidd. Whitebeard and Luffy boat crashed, Big Mom's didnt make i. The only one that made it easy was Law but he has a submarine that avoids the difficulties of navigation.

Navigating dozens of ships to properly reinvade would be a big operation. Its not so much that its impossible just that its so difficult its not something to do on a whim.

Deciding to retake Wano would not be done on a whim.

But they would be kick out from Wano and biding their time to return to it. Not just be chilling there. Wouldnt it be simpler to just invade a weak country if conquering a place is that important to them?

Like I said before I find it to be a little unlikely this happens unless Luffy and all the other allies literally walk Kaido off the island.

I guess they could but the constant mention of betrayal by kaido, the way people keep turning in this battle and the way he recuits people I feel the flimsiness of the bond of that crew has been a theme. Even Sengoku mentioning they are a barbaric bunch hold by Kaido's strength.

Well its not like I'm saying loyalty will keep them together.

I mean I dont think expecting to lose if for example Cracker, Pespero and Smoothie decided to take him on is selling his strength short. He's quite powerful and win any 1 v 1 in the crew. I just dont expect him to take on that many powerful opponent at once as I would expect it more from yonkos or admirals.

I jist dont see him losing to them.

Are we talking in-universe or what Oda would do? Because I dont think Big Mom is gonna lose her crew.

In universe in a hypothetical where Big Mom is not in the picture. Let's say assumed dead.

Katakuri hasnt exactly shown much interest in being in charge. Just a a desire to protect his family and great honour. Whereas someone like Pespero seems a lot more interesting in making the big decisions. I dont see much to assume he would beat him senseless to be the one making the decisions. And I imiagine Pespero with the ability to play dirty to get his ways.

To me this is all speculation. There's no reason to say Katakuri hasn't expressed interest in leading. Why would he? Big Mom is still there. Peros hasn't shown any interest. He's been the most loyal to Big Mom.

I mean you dont have to give just because you are weaker. I imagine a internal conflict would involve more then that. Like who has the best decision making and choosing when best to attack and all that or even making deals but I guess we can just go with plain strongest is leader.

I'm pretty sure of given a vote who would best lead them Katakuri wins in a landslide.

[Zik]

Mayne I'm forgetting something about the escape from WCI.

Pekoms went sulong and Carrot went sulong to help the strawhats escape. Why didn't Pedro go sulong again? You know before he blew himself up?

He could've went sulong and fought Peros first before kill/murder.