Was there actually any point for the fake blueprints after all???

Ivotas

Strangely I never thought about it before because I was too much distracted by the other stuff that happened in the chapters where CP9 revealed themselves to Iceburg but right now after watching episode 243 I started to ask myself what the hell the purpose of the fake blueprints of Pluton was.

I mean think about it, the plans are there to make everyone who is interested in them think that he got what he came for. Iceburg even told Paulie to leave the fakeÂ´s behind and escape because they werent the real deal. And what do those two morons do in the end? Paulie tells the invaders that the blueprints are fake and laughs at him. What a moron. Actually they should be laughing at him for being so nice and telling them while they are still inside the building instead letting them find out at Enies Lobby.

And Iceburg isnÂ´t any better. He is the guy who had all the forethought and made the scheme with the fake blueprints up and what does he do, he tells Robin that her group was tricked because this isnÂ´t the real plans. WTF? What purpose do they serve then, if they actually already tell CP9 that this isnÂ´t what they were coming for? It just doesnÂ´t make sense to me at all.

Irresistiblement

Wow…. I never noticed that before. What were they thinking?! The only thing that I could think of to explain the screw up would be Paulie and Iceburg just getting caught up in the moment around the CP9 and Robin. Because of the chaos and fear, they could have just blurted out the truth without thinking. In situations when your life is in obvious danger, people can act on whatever impulses come to them first without putting much logic into the situation.

I mean, the fake blueprints had an obvious purpose to them, just Paulie and Iceburg ruined it for whatever reason. :huh:

Mog

It was a complete coincidence CP9 attacked that night. There's no way Iceburg could have known about it, unless he suspected his own people of being spies. I find that odder.

And then, Lucci being a master shipwright himself, he would've easily seen they were fake, as they were actually just blueprints for some random ship.

So:

1. The ''fake blueprints'' couldn't really have fooled anyone.

2. They couldn't have been meant to fool anyone either, since no one couldn't have known the CP9 would make their move that very second.

I find those two things combined much, much odder than anything mentioned so far.

Buccaneer

I always blamed Pauly for revealing the fakes after they kicked his ass. That couldn't have helped Ice in any way at all.

I never thought about Ice revealing them to be fakes. Man, what the hell. :laugh:

Mog, there is a chance Lucci could have figured it out somehow (even though he wasn't smart enough to build one himself), but it was better for them to leave with the fakes and analyze them later than be flat out told that their mission wasn't done.

Tony Tony Chopper

this isn't another one of these spam untill the thread is closed isn't it? :P

(u know what i'm talking about Ivotas)

And kool! I nevre noticed that either..

Battle Franky

Well, it was a monumental fuck up putting the name 'Cutty Flam' on the fakes prints, if they really served no purpose in the end. But then again, how would've Ice have known his enemies were living & working right underneath him.

Buccaneer

Ice had a good play, though; the problem was it wasn't a game. He was going to have Pauly lead them away and then ditch the plans so he'd be safe, with the enemy thinking they'd won out over a coward. It even worked, since Lucci and Kaku were actually led away from Ice. Then it would come down to him, and finding the true blueprints through him would be tough, if he even survived.

No matter how skilled the enemy was, they probably would have just thought "mission accomplished" if they got the blueprints and weren't automatically told it was a fake.

I think his error was just like Lucci said, he didn't expect them to be so close. For some reason Franky's name was on there and they put the pieces to the puzzle.

Tony Tony Chopper

Off topic but man Battle Franky.. what the hell happened to ur avatar? lol

Forbidden Toast

I always got the impression that Paulie didn't know they were fake either, and told CP9 they were fake because HE thought they were real. I don't think Paulie really understanded at all what Pluton was. Then again, I don't remember that well. I think that he was told by Iceburg to go get them and run, and they were important, but Paulie didn't know what was important about them. (I am going to re read it now to make sure I'm not just confused and disoriented… @w@)

Even Lucci brings it up, that it wouldn't make sense for Iceburg to hand his plans over to one of his workers. Therfore, Franky (Cutty Flam) is brought up.

That's the impression I got, anyways.

edit: I just looked the part up, and we don't know for sure what was said during the conversation with Paulie and Iceburg. All we know is that Iceburg told Paulie to do something important with his life at risk, but not all the details of their conversation are revealed.

Ivotas

Nah, the name Cutty Flam isnÂ´t that much of a fuck up. But youÂ´ve just reminded me of another glitch Battle Franky. LetÂ´s just assume for one second that the fake plans were so good that you couldnÂ´t see they were a fake because youÂ´re in a hurry since youÂ´ve just invaded a the company. Cutty Flam and Tom are two mysterious names and shouldnÂ´t ring the bell for most thieves (except for CP9). But hello, he even put his own name in the blueprints.

I mean if youÂ´re in a hurry you can oversee what those plans are or who Tom and Cutty Flam really are. But guys having the name Iceburg written there is just a complete fuck up. I mean no matter how stupid the thieve is, he/she must know that he is stealing them from Iceburg. And since he probably knows what they are supposed to be everybody in his right mind would realize that there is no way that Iceburgs name should be written on Plutons real blueprints.

@Forbidden:

I always got the impression that Paulie didn't know they were fake either, and told CP9 they were fake because HE thought they were real. I don't think Paulie really understanded at all what Pluton was. Then again, I don't remember that well. I think that he was told by Iceburg to go get them and run, and they were important, but Paulie didn't know what was important about them. (I am going to re read it now to make sure I'm not just confused and disoriented… @w@)

From what Paulie tells it pretty much seems that he knows that they are fake. He just doesnÂ´t seem to understand the true value of what CP9 really is looking for.

Even Lucci brings it up, that it wouldn't make sense for Iceburg to hand his plans over to one of his workers. Therfore, Franky (Cutty Flam) is brought up.

Nope, Lucci doesnÂ´t say that it doesnÂ´t makes sense to hand them over to one of his workers (since this is how theyÂ´ve been passed on for generations) but he just says that Iceburg probably doesnÂ´t is in posession of them anymore because he didnÂ´t try to pass them on this very night.

Buccaneer

Well Ivotas, there's the fact that CP9 (or whoever) wouldn't know how the blueprints came about. I think it'd look suspicious if his name wasn't on it, meaning that he had no part in the handling of the draft what-so-ever. and then they'd probably go straight to the other two names.

Bounty1Berry

What if the "we gave you fake blueprints and took the real ones elsewhere" story is the scam?

It doesn't matter when they find out they're fakes, it just matters they get the impression the real blueprints have been removed. Perhaps they never actually took the real blueprints at all, or returned them after a quick removal, knowing that CP9 would figure they're long gone.

taboo

What if there were hidden blueprints on the the back of the fake blueprints?! D:

Battle Franky

@Ivotas:

Nah, the name Cutty Flam isnÂ´t that much of a fuck up.

You don't think so? Lucci & CP9 had a theory they were running with all this time and the fact that the name 'Cutty Flam' was on the fake prints devised by Iceburg himself, confirmed that theory beyond a shadow of a doubt.

If Ice maybe had of left out or had switched Cutty Flam's name with some totally random name, that theory would be somewhat still a theory. Though there's a large probability they were going to advance on Franky anyways, regardless if they could confirm it through Iceburg or not.

CosmicDebris

Nah, the name Cutty Flam isnÂ´t that much of a fuck up. But youÂ´ve just reminded me of another glitch Battle Franky. LetÂ´s just assume for one second that the fake plans were so good that you couldnÂ´t see they were a fake because youÂ´re in a hurry since youÂ´ve just invaded a the company. Cutty Flam and Tom are two mysterious names and shouldnÂ´t ring the bell for most thieves (except for CP9). But hello, he even put his own name in the blueprints.

I mean if youÂ´re in a hurry you can oversee what those plans are or who Tom and Cutty Flam really are. But guys having the name Iceburg written there is just a complete fuck up. I mean no matter how stupid the thieve is, he/she must know that he is stealing them from Iceburg. And since he probably knows what they are supposed to be everybody in his right mind would realize that there is no way that Iceburgs name should be written on Plutons real blueprints.

Well, it was Lucci himself that said the one "fuck up" was putting Cutty Flam's name on the prints, because he assumed that nobody would ever have heard of that name before. But I don't think it's impossible to assume their names would be on the prints. They may have had a hand in drawing up a copy or something like that.
As for why he told them they were fakes, I just figured that since he wasn't planning on handing over the prints, and probably assumed they were going to kill him anyway, he was trying to convince them that no real plans existed at all. It seemed like he just wanted to get the last laugh, but his plan failed.

Kiden4911

this is just a random theory i made up in 10 seconds but maybe the fake ones were real? lol….thats something oda would do...

Forbidden Toast

@taboo:

What if there were hidden blueprints on the the back of the fake blueprints?! D:

That would be very ironic… o_o; I doubt it though... yet again, that does seem like a Franky worthy trick... then again, the documents were in Iceburgs possession, not Franky's...

Then again, not even Franky is that stupid. >w<

Cap'n Carter

I always thought it was dumb of Pauley to reveal that they were fakes. Then again, it was most likely to speed up the plot.

CosmicDebris

@Kiden4911:

this is just a random theory i made up in 10 seconds but maybe the fake ones were real? lol….thats something oda would do...

Hey…now that you mention it, that would be a brilliant idea. XD Well, except, what if they did figure out the plans were real, or take them along anyway in case they were? But didn't Franky say that he does have them? Maybe they both had a copy.

Cap'n Carter

I think it'd be really interesting if Franky revealed that he destroyed the blueprints.

sgamer82

@Buccaneer:

I always blamed Pauly for revealing the fakes after they kicked his ass. That couldn't have helped Ice in any way at all.

I don't think that's true. Granted, it was mostly luck, but didn't finding out they were fakes wind up saving Iceburg's life? CP9 probably would have killed him once their business with him was finished (as they indeed attempted to do). The mix-up with the blueprints bought Iceburg alive time that wound up enabling him to survive the whole encounter and be able to tell Nami what Robin's intentions were (as Robin told him after the fakes were revealed and they were left alone).

In relation to other points made, I don't think having the names of Tom's Workers was such a mistake. It was only so in the fact that, as Buccaneer said in another post, Iceburg never considered his enemies would be close enough to him or have been with him long enough to recognize the name Cutty Flam. If anything, having the names would've added authenticity to the Blueprints as it showed Tom DID own them and they weren't just some random plant of Iceburg's.

Also, who says Iceburg's the one who put the names there? I've always just figured it was some old memento of his time as one of Tom's Workers. I can imagine Iceburg putting that in a safe jsut for sentimental value, and the fake-out strategy it enabled just being a practical upside.

Anyway, all that stuff's just my opinion. I could be wrong.

ron_8

i think it was dumb of pauly to say to the enemies that it was fake, come on if he didnt say it the cp9 wouldve left w/ it, but then agian i think the cp9 wana kil iceburg anyway even if they got the blueprints

Korought

So far, it hasn't been confirmed where the blueprints are. All they know is that Franky knows where they are. If he doesn't have the blueprints hidden on him, they'll have to go back to W7 again to find them.

joekido the Second

@Korought:

So far, it hasn't been confirmed where the blueprints are. All they know is that Franky knows where they are. If he doesn't have the blueprints hidden on him, they'll have to go back to W7 again to find them.

Won't that be anti-climax? They spent all the trouble capturing Franky and Robin, if Franky don't have the blueprint that will cheapen this arc storyline. If they go back to Water 7 do you think Iceburg will have shipwrights waiting for them? And the warehouse is flooded

nihilism

maybe theyre the new ship

ron_8

^ come again

didnt understand

Ivotas

I agree with what sgamer82 says about revealing that they are fakes might have saved Iceburgs life. After all they were ready to kill him once they got what they came for. But that just brings us back to the innitial question if the fake plans served any purpose after all. No matter how to look at it, they were kinda useless.

@CosmicDebris:

Well, it was Lucci himself that said the one "fuck up" was putting Cutty Flam's name on the prints, because he assumed that nobody would ever have heard of that name before.

Yeah the name Cutty Flam was what attracted Lucci, but as you and Lucci say, Iceburg would never had thought that his enemy is so close. So basically it was what fucked everything up, but the pure usage of the name isnÂ´t that much a fuck up because thereÂ´s only a handful of people on the world for whom the bell would be ringing after hearing the name Cutty Flam. Mostly everyone else wouldnÂ´t care a bit about it.
I still think having Iceburg on them is more of a fuck up, no matter who the thieves are. Just imagine that I would own a "Picasso" and somebody who knows that would come to steal it. And then when this somebody has the drawing in his hand finally he seeÂ´s my own name on it. WouldnÂ´t then the bells be ringing "fake"? Having his own name on it just still doesnÂ´t make sense to me.

Buccaneer

If you think about it, it's kinda Franky's fault that they knew the name. XD

Good point, sgamer. The main idea was to save Franky instead of him, but hey, I guess they'll both live now.

Ueap

@Ivotas:

I still think having Iceburg on them is more of a fuck up, no matter who the thieves are. Just imagine that I would own a "Picasso" and somebody who knows that would come to steal it. And then when this somebody has the drawing in his hand finally he seeÂ´s my own name on it. WouldnÂ´t then the bells be ringing "fake"? Having his own name on it just still doesnÂ´t make sense to me.

Yes, the thieves would think that blueprint is a fake one. However, if that blueprint is a real one, then putting your name on it is a brilliant idea to make someone believe that it is fake.

Buccaneer

I don't think so. Like I said, they don't know the circumstances of drafting. Tom himself could have put his company name and members on the blueprints.

If the blueprints were real, then it'd be odd not to have all the members sign the draft. It took CP9 some research to find out that Ice worked with Tom, so it'd probably tip them off if the fruit of their research didn't ripen at all, in the fact that Ice was nowhere to be found under the company. If Ice wasn't there, then Cutty Flam wouldn't be on there, and niether would the name "Tom's Workers," if it was only Tom. That's why I think Ice wanted to make it appear real, the only hint to work with being that Franky once said his name to Calipha. Lucci never mentioned anything about Ice's name on the document giving its legitimacy away.

Ivotas

@Buccaneer:

Lucci never mentioned anything about Ice's name on the document giving its legitimacy away.

Why does he have to do so? He already know that they are fake. What I am saying is that Iceburgs name could make regular thieves see that it is a fake if they didnÂ´t notice so far. But Lucci already knows that the plans are fake thanks to Paulie. ThatÂ´s what IÂ´m saying. If Paulie wouldnÂ´t have said a think and CP9 would have killed him and Iceburg then they probably would have found out that they are fake thanks to the name Iceburg on the plans. And one second later they would find the clue they needed with the name Cutty Flam.

Other than that I rethought my opinion about sgamer82Â´s point. True Paulie saved Iceburgs live with revealing that they are fake, but is that truly what Iceburg desired for. Iceburg knows the consequences of owning the blueprints. His mentor even gave away his life to make sure that the blueprints donÂ´t get into the wrong hands. Actually Iceburg shouldnÂ´t value his life more then the lives of everyone in this world. True Paulie saved Iceburgs life, but he ruined generations of hard work with that. But thatÂ´s probably because he didnÂ´t know what all of that was really about.

Buccaneer

That wouldn't have saved him if it weren't for Chopper, though, who Pauly still doesn't even seem to know. All that would've happened after revealing the fake was Ice's torture and then death instead of probably just death. The problem to me was that he said that after the assassins crept up and beat his ass, putting all the pressure on Lucci and Kaku to protect Ice. The fake design was supposed to throw them off and save him, but going against them almost got him killed, and he then basically said that Ice still has the plans.