Also Luffy's hands don't turn black when he grabs Caesar nor does he state "CoA hardening" during any of his attacks against Caesar, yet we know some haki is involved in order for Luffy to touch him. So I'm in agreement with the idea that there are two variations of CoA.
Chapter 672: "My Name Is Kinemon!!!"
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In every chapter where haki is in, there are those endless discussions bout wether its haki or not.
Not that I care a lot, but here are my 2 cents:
Since Oda explained the first parts of haki through Rayleigh (right b4 the TS), we saw Luffy using CoA. And almost everytime he used CoA for offensives the body part used for the attack has turned black.
Now we have Vilgo who turns black his hand as well as his bamboo stick and strikes Law, who looks really done for right after the strike.
IDK whats the big idea of this discussion again, but Vilgo's move screams:"IT'S CoA!!!"
If it is a DF, it'd look like a darkness fruit, but yeah, it's not that possible.
Remember: Law got struck with the stick. There was no other hax-power behind it. It looked just so much like CoA.It's discussed a lot because Haki is one of the most interesting aspects of the One Piece world.
I look at it this way. If I were to make a list/chart of things that haki causes to turn black and things it doesn't. I end up with the conclusion that there is some correlation between Luffy's rubber flesh, Velgo's Jacket and Velgo's staff.
Things we know haki doesn't cause to turn black would be: Human flesh, wooden arrows, steel swords, Jozu in his diamond form(so I guess diamond in general as well) etc etc.
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SAD Sabo Ace Dadan.
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Sowait…
if it hardened like metal/iron/rock...
then maybe Welgo is Iron Man?
And the steak is there because it's starkly apparent? -
Also Luffy's hands don't turn black when he grabs Caesar nor does he state "CoA hardening" during any of his attacks against Caesar, yet we know some haki is involved in order for Luffy to touch him. So I'm in agreement with the idea that there are two variations of CoA.
How would we know that? Luffy is wearing gloves. He doesn't have to call it out every time he uses it. He didn't call out armaments when he knocked out Franky/monster chopper.
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What would be interesting is to compare the sound effect when Luffy uses the haki-hardening attacks.
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i have a theory about the whole haki thing.
in my theory luffy can use 2 types of CoA haki, and i say this because:1.when he fought against the pacifista he used haki without the blackening thing
2.when he does the blackening thing it appears that the attacks are slower
2.1.when luffy fought hody there were parts where he attacked with black haki and the attack appeared slower
2.2against the pacifista luffy used haki and gear 2nd, but when he did it against hody he took his time to "vulcanize" his arm and then used gear 2nd, thats when we saw red hawkso this is my theory, they can use haki 2 different ways
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I really don't see what the discussion is about… The fact that Luffy/Oda calls it vulcanization and this wiki article (http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Vulcanization) makes it pretty clear that the hardening and blackness is a Luffy-only thing. The black 'color' in the manga can be any number of things. For all we know, it could not be black, just dark purple or something. It could be a fruit, or special weapon developed by their organization, or any number of things. Of all those things, it's pretty unlikely that it'll be the same vulcanization that luffy uses.
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@Redx Forgot he had on gloves, however against franky monster chopper he said "Elephant Gun" which we know is a move utilising gear 3rd and CoA. So although he didn't call it out the move name hinted to what it was.
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@Redx Forgot he had on gloves, however against franky monster chopper he said "Elephant Gun" which we know is a move utilising gear 3rd and CoA. So although he didn't call it out the move name hinted to what it was.
I understand that but you were implying that because he didn't say it, his arm didn't turn black.
–- Update From New Post Merge ---
The normal Haki isn't "imbuing" though. It's "covering" or "cladding" something in it, as it was described by Sentoumaru and Rayleigh. A thick armor is still an armor. Making the object itself hard is not quite the same thing. What makes the most sense is simply that it's an application of CoA, not just a lot of CoA. That's why it's called Armament: Hardening. Armament - the general. Hardening - the specific. Like Santoryuu: Sanzen-Sekai, for example.
My bad. "Imbuing" was a poor choice of words on my part. Controlling/mastering specific aspects of Busoshoku haki does make sense, however it still doesn't negate the possibility for them to control the output of CoA.
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Luffy probably doesn't say "Armament" everytime he uses Haki because we have a visual cue. Like he doesn't say "Gear Second" every time or Zoro "Santoryuu". We can tell by the way it looks what's going on. Well, except when he inconveniently happens to wear clothes that make it impossible…
I don't doubt that the strength of the armor can be controlled, it's just that we're talking about things that are simply not the same here. Making an armor thicker and stronger wouldn't harden your own arm. Makes more sense that it happens when you use Haki "in" the arm rather than just having your arm "clad" in Haki. It's used from the inside and hardens the arm itself, making it extremely resistant to damage rather than just shielding it as well as increasing the offensive power.
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Ahh, so it's Vergo. I was wrong there, I s'pose. Still, it's a fine name.
For some reason I'm very excited at the thought of Luffy and Vergo meeting, and Luffy being entirely transfixed by the (whatever) on his face, a la Genzo and his pinwheel.
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I got another theory to Vilgo (though it is similar to my earlier theories of him):
He came from Dressrosa. It might be the cake island where BM resides. Dressrosa could mean "dress pink" ("Rosa" is a similar colour as pink in German. Maybe this word appears in other languages too). If we look @ Tamago's and Pekoms' pink clothes, it might be the "dresscode" in BM's crew.The stuff above I already posted somewhere here. Here comes another stuff that came to my mind:
As well as Pekoms and Tamago, Vilgo wears sunglasses. Maybe another hint, that he belongs to BM.
Ok, now it gets nuts: The reason why Vilgo has food on his cheek could be, because he is the one who got eaten by BM b4 she called Tamago by dendenmushi. After all his upper coat has the same pattern on it as the food on his cheek.What SAD-tanker could mean? At the moment I'd say "Sweets At Delivery". Maybe it's one of the ships which collect the sweets for BM's tea party. It would also fit to the timeline if u ask me.
TBH: I still hope he belongs either to Kaidou, or another independent institution or to the WG. I just thought I bring up another possible hints and foreshadowings that point @ BM b4 the new chap is out. And I know there is a lot of stupidity in this post too, but I can't stay serious all the time when predicting stuff Oda is up to.
–- Update From New Post Merge ---
@ RedX
Thats why I said after Rayleigh explained the first parts of haki.
B4 that event, we haven't been able to c when haki was used (Sentomarou, Kuja arrows, Jozu,...) except the characters have told us. And Oda did well so. But now we know few of it, so whenever Oda wants to indicate CoA is used, he makes the stuff involved black. Though I know its not everytime (to name an exception: when Pekoms KO'd Caribou iirc).
IDK how Vigo's stuff and Luffy's body parts are related, but I hope it is not because Vegapunk sumhow extracted the Gumo gumo powers from the fruit b4 Shanks have found it back then.
Cause that'd be kinda lame if u ask me. -
I got another theory to Vilgo (though it is similar to my earlier theories of him):
He came from Dressrosa. It might be the cake island where BM resides. Dressrosa could mean "dress pink" ("Rosa" is a similar colour as pink in German. Maybe this word appears in other languages too). If we look @ Tamago's and Pekoms' pink clothes, it might be the "dresscode" in BM's crew.The stuff above I already posted somewhere here. Here comes another stuff that came to my mind:
As well as Pekoms and Tamago, Vilgo wears sunglasses. Maybe another hint, that he belongs to BM.
Ok, now it gets nuts: The reason why Vilgo has food on his cheek could be, because he is the one who got eaten by BM b4 she called Tamago by dendenmushi. After all his upper coat has the same pattern on it as the food on his cheek.What SAD-tanker could mean? At the moment I'd say "Sweets At Delivery". Maybe it's one of the ships which collect the sweets for BM's tea party. It would also fit to the timeline if u ask me.
TBH: I still hope he belongs either to Kaidou, or another independent institution or to the WG. I just thought I bring up another possible hints and foreshadowings that point @ BM b4 the new chap is out. And I know there is a lot of stupidity in this post too, but I can't stay serious all the time when predicting stuff Oda is up to.
–- Update From New Post Merge ---
@ RedX
Thats why I said after Rayleigh explained the first parts of haki.
B4 that event, we haven't been able to c when haki was used (Sentomarou, Kuja arrows, Jozu,...) except the characters have told us. And Oda did well so. But now we know few of it, so whenever Oda wants to indicate CoA is used, he makes the stuff involved black. Though I know its not everytime (to name an exception: when Pekoms KO'd Caribou iirc).
IDK how Vigo's stuff and Luffy's body parts are related, but I hope it is not because Vegapunk sumhow extracted the Gumo gumo powers from the fruit b4 Shanks have found it back then.
Cause that'd be kinda lame if u ask me.I wasn't saying the body parts are related I'm saying that Vergo's clothes and his staff might be a synthetic material containing some aspects/traits of rubber in general not specifically luffy's DF.
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1.when he fought against the pacifista he used haki without the blackening thing
Once again, we can't know that and we will probably never know that:
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Luffy probably doesn't say "Armament" everytime he uses Haki because we have a visual cue. Like he doesn't say "Gear Second" every time or Zoro "Santoryuu". We can tell by the way it looks what's going on. Well, except when he inconveniently happens to wear clothes that make it impossible…
I don't doubt that the strength of the armor can be controlled, it's just that we're talking about things that are simply not the same here. Making an armor thicker and stronger wouldn't harden your own arm. Makes more sense that it happens when you use Haki "in" the arm rather than just having your arm "clad" in Haki. It's used from the inside and hardens the arm itself, making it extremely resistant to damage rather than just shielding it as well as increasing the offensive power.
I understand that already. The point is luffy's haki vulcanization is specific to him alone. It only happens to his flesh because he is made of rubber. My opinion is that Vergo's coat and his staff are made from some synthetic polymer since these are the only types of things that we've seen become blackened/vulcanized via haki.
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Vulcanization? I know it can be translated either way, but people usually call it Hardening. Isn't it much simpler to believe that turning black is how Oda visually represents Hardening? His stick looks like plain bamboo. It seems pretty far-fetched to me to think that it's actually made of rubber instead of it just being how Oda shows us Hardening.
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His arm is a boner.
Thread over.
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Chapter tonight chapter tonight chapter tonight. Dis gone be good.
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formed rubber has already technically gone through the vulcanization process, doing it to different lengths changes the density, i'm not sure how something that's already gone through the process would react, or if Oda's taken that into account at all.
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People should stop to over-analyze everything.
Just relax and enjoy the manga. -
People should stop to over-analyze everything.
Just relax and enjoy the manga.Hooray for the most logical post of the week!:happy:
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@nodensuke:
Hooray for the most logical post of the week!:happy:
I thought the point was to discuss theories because it's fun and really hard to wait for the next chapter.
… I can't wait!!!
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Chapter tonight chapter tonight chapter tonight. Dis gone be good.
I get the feeling it won't be as interesting this week as last week. We'll probably see a glimpse of Vergo, then, it will go to Chopper or Usopp and Nami-in-Sanji's body. Unless…of course...another new character that came with Vergo is introduced, and confronts Usopp and Nami-in-Sanji's body.
If that happens, or Chopper has some hardcore revelation, then it will be just as interesting, if not moreso. But really...can't see anything those 2 parties are doing to be all that interesting; interesting like Law, Luffy, Franky, Robin, Zoro, Sanji-in-Nami's body, Brooke, and Kinemon.
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Yeah, I have the same feeling… but one can hope!
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Chapter tonight chapter tonight chapter tonight. Dis gone be good.
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I thought the point was to discuss theories because it's fun and really hard to wait for the next chapter.
… I can't wait!!!
I don't believe I said that discussion and theorizing was pointless, but there comes a time when it gets to be too much..As what KaiPirinha said..People start to over-analyze everything, which takes the fun out of the discussion…
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@nodensuke:
I don't believe I said that discussion and theorizing was pointless, but there comes a time when it gets to be too much..As what KaiPirinha said..People start to over-analyze everything, which takes the fun out of the discussion…
well I believe that what you just said now need a real good analyze!
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People should stop to over-analyze everything.
Just relax and enjoy the manga.Well, thats how most of us pass time here you know.
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Vulcanization? I know it can be translated either way, but people usually call it Hardening. Isn't it much simpler to believe that turning black is how Oda visually represents Hardening? His stick looks like plain bamboo. It seems pretty far-fetched to me to think that it's actually made of rubber instead of it just being how Oda shows us Hardening.
I never said it was made of rubber. I said a polymer related to rubber. Either way I could easily be wrong. This is just the theory that makes the most sense in my opinion. We will see how things turn out tomorrow.
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TBH: I still hope he belongs either to Kaidou, or another independent institution or to the WG. I just thought I bring up another possible hints and foreshadowings that point @ BM b4 the new chap is out. And I know there is a lot of stupidity in this post too, but I can't stay serious all the time when predicting stuff Oda is up to.
Have you consider what Oda told us here and here in Law's words? Namely, that CC is a FORMER WG cientist? (Which means that he doesnt work for WG anymore) And the reasons for CC to keep working on gigantic kids experimentation are here: "So he can beat the Government and Vegapunk". So my guess is that CC, Wergo and Monet are members of a new organization different than WG.
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Would be pretty messed up if they were part of the revolutionaries.
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Would be pretty messed up if they were part of the revolutionaries.
I wouldn't mind an 'evil side' to the Revolutionaries. It would show that, pretty much, each major faction has 'evil' in it. The World Government, various pirate crews, and the Revolutionaries.
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@The:
I wouldn't mind an 'evil side' to the Revolutionaries. It would show that, pretty much, each major faction has 'evil' in it. The World Government, various pirate crews, and the Revolutionaries.
I like that idea! It'll bring more realism/depth into the story. Though, it might just confuse Oda's target audience of 13yo kids so it might not be likely.
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Joker's boss is Sabo.
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There is obviously a difference in the way CoA is used whether by Luffy or by everyone. We've seen Luffy use CoA w/ & w/o blackening so we know there is SOME difference in those two. I think it would make sense that there is more than 2 ways CoA appears or is utilized, didn't Rayleigh refer to CoA as "invisible armor", blackening not so invisible. I'm not going to argue where the difference comes in with Luffy's use of haki or whether darkening/blackening is a CoA that everyone can use but it's BLATANLY obvious Luffy (at the least) has two ways his CoA appears, I'm speculating this isn't a Luffy-centric haki ability, but a type of haki ability that Wergo also has. Virgo having a DF that allows him to beat the fuck outta Law is odd. A far more relevant question why is a piece of meat stuck to Wergo's face
Anyone else think Luffy beating Vergo might mean Law is in debt to him meaning his plans to betray Luffy when fighting the Yonkou are thrown out?
I'm hoping for a Chopper/Wergo interaction and Luffy waking up. I expect next chapter to be better than the last, since the last one brought up a bunch of questions about Wergo and what happened to Robin (aka Sakura aka useless) and Franky.
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The haki thing might go either way, the only times we've seen this effect is either with Luffy or Vergo right now.
Why would you compare Robin to Sakura? At least Robin has a personality and plot importance, even if her fights are short or she mostly contributes in team efforts fights wise.
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There is obviously a difference in the way CoA is used whether by Luffy or by everyone. We've seen Luffy use CoA w/ & w/o blackening so we know there is SOME difference in those two. I think it would make sense that there is more than 2 ways CoA appears or is utilized, didn't Rayleigh refer to CoA as "invisible armor", blackening not so invisible. I'm not going to argue where the difference comes in with Luffy's use of haki or whether darkening/blackening is a CoA that everyone can use but it's BLATANLY obvious Luffy (at the least) has two ways his CoA appears, I'm speculating this isn't a Luffy-centric haki ability, but a type of haki ability that Wergo also has. Virgo having a DF that allows him to beat the fuck outta Law is odd. A far more relevant question why is a piece of meat stuck to Wergo's face
Anyone else think Luffy beating Vergo might mean Law is in debt to him meaning his plans to betray Luffy when fighting the Yonkou are thrown out?
I'm hoping for a Chopper/Wergo interaction and Luffy waking up. I expect next chapter to be better than the last, since the last one brought up a bunch of questions about Wergo and what happened to Robin (aka Sakura aka useless) and Franky.
That's a sound argument for why the blackening 'stick' of Vergo (I think alpha translator confirmed this, someone said on om forums, no link sorry) might be CoA. It would be a little weird that Law got owned by a DF, but then again, it might be a new/special weapon against fruit users. Also, don't foget that Luffy alreadh owes Law for his help during the war. So if Law is saved by Luffy, I would say they are even.
I really hope this next chapter tells us how Luffy got taken down. It was really surprising and I hope Oda doesn't keep this informaation from us for too long. Chopper/Vergo interaction would be awesome too.
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Robin puts up as much effort in fights as Sakura she also the knowledgeable person in her group. Apart from being intelligence and a better overall character her contribution to the crew apart from keeping knowledge to herself is very little.
I like the theory of Vergo being an evil revolutionary but I think he is more govt related. When he confronted Law he kept saying "we" and Law referred someone else in Vergo company, who I'm presuming is Joker. Also presuming this was Joker didn't CC talk to someone w/i or near the WG about making the death of Smoker and Co. look like an accident. Law also talks about a key on the island to bring down one of the Yonkou. Here is my theory with the airtightness of swiss cheese: I think Joker and Wergo are members of the WG designed to deal with the Yonkou specifically but they operate solely in the New World (which is why they weren't at Marineford, especially since Big Mam and Kaido were still in the NW). Law said on the island is a key to taking down a Yonkou, and CC is a WMD specialist. What if the WG is working with CC (black ops sorta thing) to create a bomb or weapon capable of taking out a Yonkou with Vergo/Joker who work for the WG dealing specifically with Yonkou but they are keeping an eye on him? It would explain how Vergo has the power to beat Law and how he mocked his title as a Shichibukai. I know the WG says the Yonkou keep the balance but it seems they fear more than anything One Piece and Raftel being found so if a Yonkou gets too powerful they'd have to take him out and like they said when Shanks & WB that 2 Yonkou forming an alliance would be dangerous. I know it's a sturdy as theory as a stack of cards and of course there is my other much more sound theory that… Doflamingo is the leader of SAD
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People should stop to over-analyze everything.
Just relax and enjoy the manga.They do it because they're waiting for the new chapter to come out and it might seem like a waste of time but they can spend their time however they want they're not hurting anyone by doing it also you're posting in here before the new chapter is about to come out as well so you're doing the same thing.
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Robin puts up as much effort in fights as Sakura she also the knowledgeable person in her group. Apart from being intelligence and a better overall character her contribution to the crew apart from keeping knowledge to herself is very little.
I just really hate Sakura as a character(or her lack of character). Robin's flashback alone is better(if only for all the Void Century stuff) than anything Sakura has done in that entire manga. Hell, despite her fights being curbstomps Robin has had more fights and contributions as a fighter. They're also very different characters. Each to their own, I guess.
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I just really hate Sakura as a character(or her lack of character). Robin's flashback alone is better(if only for all the Void Century stuff) than anything Sakura has done in that entire manga. Hell, despite her fights being curbstomps Robin has had more fights and contributions as a fighter. They're also very different characters. Each to their own, I guess.
You're comparing a healer with a fighter lol.
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@Law:
You're comparing a healer with a fighter lol.
Well, that was my point with them being kind of pretty different characters.
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Which Sakura are you guys talking about?If it has pink hair,is obsessed with a red-eyed douchebag,is often drawn like a man and is generally useless,then please don't mention that character here.
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Which Sakura are you guys talking about?If it has pink hair,is obsessed with a red-eyed douchebag,is often drawn like a man and is generally useless,then please don't mention that character here.
LOL!!!!!!!! 16char
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Guys.
WHY ARE WE TALKING ABOUT NARUTO CHARACTERS?
BACK
ON
TOPICDid any of you feel hungry after seeing the steak* on Wergo's face…?
*or whatever the hell that thing is
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Did any of you feel hungry after seeing the steak* on Wergo's face…?
*or whatever the hell that thing is
I have a few theories about what that thing on his face might be, but I'll probably get a permaban or something if I post them. So, I'll stick with the steak (theory)
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Which Sakura are you guys talking about?If it has pink hair,is obsessed with a red-eyed douchebag,is often drawn like a man and is generally useless,then please don't mention that character here.
Drawn like a man… someone needs to have their eyes checked. Most of the other stuff you said is true. My point was fighting was this person you speak of is as reliable as Nico Robin.
Vergo's face: I'm going with a steak but my guess is it's a hint at either something about his personality or his power, Oda wouldn't let something like that just be there unless it will bring about a hilarious moment later on.
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Drawn like a man… someone needs to have their eyes checked. Most of the other stuff you said is true. My point was fighting was this person you speak of is as reliable as Nico Robin.
Vergo's face: I'm going with a steak but my guess is it's a hint at either something about his personality or his power, Oda wouldn't let something like that just be there unless it will bring about a hilarious moment later on.
Or…Oda had steak on his mind, or was eating a steak, while drawing Vergo.
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I got another theory to Vilgo (though it is similar to my earlier theories of him):
He came from Dressrosa. It might be the cake island where BM resides.Big Mom's island is called Whole Cake Island.