! If you pay attention, you'll notice that Mukurou getting off by being touched in the butt gets more screentime than any student of the 77th class this episode.
! And that, in and of itself, is a microcosm of everything wrong in the Despair Arc.
! If you pay attention, you'll notice that Mukurou getting off by being touched in the butt gets more screentime than any student of the 77th class this episode.
! And that, in and of itself, is a microcosm of everything wrong in the Despair Arc.
Wow, Future 12 was lame. That was a lot of shoddy writing. I can't see how Hope will redeem this but I'll stick with it till the end fingers crossed. That said, I sincerely hope DRV3 returns to the good quality of the VN.
So, ep hope is today or thursday?
I can't see how Hope will redeem this but I'll stick with it till the end fingers crossed.
It's called "Hope" for a good reason.
But anyway, was I the only one who noticed something was not right in that explanation? Like it feels like they haven't told us all the truth.
! Specifically the part where Naegi says Tengan planned all along the Killing Game and leave Mitarai out of it, broadcast the whole thing through his phone and provoke him into taking action and use the Hope video he himself created.
! Like, if he really wanted that, what was the point of place Mitarai a NG that forbids him precisely of doing that? (Mitarai's NG: Use your talent) And if he came to the meeting uninvited much to Tengan's shock, who was that called him?
! It reeks of sabotage. Tengan had specific plans, but someone thwarted him and turned what was meant to be a simple mutual killing game with brainwashing involved into a slaughterfest.
! I don't get Tengan, if nagito is right, and he didn't fall into despair, why put in danger Bandai, Kizakura, Seiko and Gozu? Specially as his plan involved global brainwashing, it didn't matter if he was caught, and he planed to die. Hell, did he particulary hated Bandai??
! He went "oh, this plan is shit, I'm killing all the organization and leaving this kid to rewrite the brains of everybody" instead of "let me send everybody away from the tower and transmit the hope anime and be done with it"
! At least Cinema Ghost Chisa is true Chisa.
! I don't get Tengan, if nagito is right, and he didn't fall into despair, why put in danger Bandai, Kizakura, Seiko and Gozu? Specially as his plan involved global brainwashing, it didn't matter if he was caught, and he planed to die. Hell, did he particulary hated Bandai??
! He went "oh, this plan is shit, I'm killing all the organization and leaving this kid to rewrite the brains of everybody" instead of "let me send everybody away from the tower and transmit the hope anime and be done with it"
! At least Cinema Ghost Chisa is true Chisa.
Yeah. Sounds like they are hiding us something that they plan to reveal in the final episode.
! As you say, it doesn't make any sense. Mitarai was supposed to be left out of this, then why did Tengan drag him along? And then set a NG that forbids Mitarai of using his talent. Moreover, Mitarai could have also been killed any time, bet it through the brainwash video, or murdered by someone else.
! It reeks of sabotage. If is true Tengan didn't fall into despair, then the one that rolled the sleeping gas ball wasn't him.
! Welp, DR3 is officially bad to me. That ending was so, I don't know, blehg? To anyone who wants to get into this series, don't watch DR3. Danganronpa, Danganronpa 2, and Danganronpa 0 are great, but Danganronpa 3 is poorly executed as hell. Danganronpa 2 is a much more satisfying conclusion to the series and you are better off ending at a high note rather than at this cesspool of mediocrity.
Tag that. Vague as it seemed, its pure courtesy.
! The inconsistences fade away just to see Tanaka break the Gundham seal.
! Yeah, super corney and could have been better, but just the Impostor and Gundam stole the show for me.
On other news, V3 info:http://gematsu.com/2016/09/new-danganronpa-v3-launches-january-12-japan
! No Lucky Student this time, I guess.
I have a sorta bittersweet taste in my mouth.
! But man, seeing Nagito again was fucking worth it. And in the end Chisa was really the mastermind behind the killing game while being dead the whole time. She not only drived Munakata crazy, but also tricked Tengan into watching the Despair video which started it all.
! Even if my favourite characters that I didn't wanted to die are okay, it left what I felt about the second game kinda of a waste. At least Kyoko is alive
It was a given.
! Bottle of medicine rolling in the frame with the same shape and color that the one Seiko had, plus heavy foreshadowing said medicine was going to save someone's life at a certain point.
Oh well, someone I know is going to be happy.
! Welp, considering they went the full on fan pandering route, its disappointing they didn't resurrect Chiaki in some tangible way. Had they opted for an actually compelling finale, I would be totally fine with, no relieved, if she stayed dead, but because this episode (and the whole series, really) was so poorly executed, why couldn't they bring back my favorite girl to at least leave me happy in one way after shitting out such shoddy mess.
! Welp, considering they went the full on fan pandering route, its disappointing they didn't resurrect Chiaki in some tangible way. Had they opted for an actually compelling finale, I would be totally fine with, no relieved, if she stayed dead, but because this episode (and the whole series, really) was so poorly executed, why couldn't they bring back my favorite girl to at least leave me happy in one way after shitting out such shoddy mess.
! There's a major difference between getting poisoned and having an agent that can counterattack it plus all the foreshadowing, and getting your entire body skewered, bleeding profusely, and being left all alone, with the only person that can help you an emotionless guy.
! I'm sorry, but I know Kodaka isn't about miracles.
! There's a major difference between getting poisoned and having an agent that can counterattack it plus all the foreshadowing, and getting your entire body skewered, bleeding profusely, and being left all alone, with the only person that can help you an emotionless guy.
! I'm sorry, but I know Kodaka isn't about miracles.
! The ending was complete bullshit so it irks me they didn't throw in Chiaki resurrection bullshit in some form; Izuru has Chiaki's AI (who seems to have regained her past memories) consciousness in him so why not bring the best girl in an artificial body thing with SHSL Ultimate Bullshit. The point is, I thought the ending (and the series as a whole) was so mediocre that contrived bullshit like that would appeal to me as long as Chiaki's alive. Maybe they'll do it in the Nagito OVA.
Wishful Thinking
! After finishing up the DRV3 story line (hopefully with two to three visual novels and no anime), Kodaka declares this piece of shit anime an alternate universe and remakes DR3: End of Hope's Peak in a way that doesn't feel like shitty fan pandering. I want a proper conclusion to this series: Danganronpa 1 & 2 were too excellent to deserve such a shitty finale.
FYI: The overuse of the word 'shit' is totally intentional. Because
! THIS ANIME IS SHIT!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
I apologize for the complaining. I just hate that this great story ended so poorly.
Anyway,
! Naegi and Kirigiri better name their first child Kimura. Mikan confirmed at the end the Cure W (Antagonist) only works on the living.
! Chiaki AI will be in V3 as the actual identity of SHSL Super Fighting Robot
! I woulda bought Kyoko alive if it happened pretty soon after her 'death' but ima call bullshit at her spending almost two days passed out and filled with poison, and without food, drink, or care, and still surviving. Ugh.
! This ending was okay, only because it was sweet seeing the DR2 cast all alive and back in action. Too bad they never got to be characters in all of this. The only thing about DR3 that I'll accept into canon is Gundham being a live and kicking ass.
! And the 16th person was never accounted for lawl. Plus it also turned out that Tengan was just that stupid to bring Mitarai into the killing game. Seiko, Gozu, and Bandai all died because Tengan is an idiot. We never learned who gassed everyone, or anything. Also the entire story was a clusterfuck and apparently everything could have been averted if Juzo came out of the closet to his most trusted friend in the world instead of letting a mass murderer blackmail him with barely anything. DR3 was an unmitigated shitshow that I'd really tell any DR fans to avoid at al costs. I agree with hosemisnuba that DR2's ending is a much more satisfying conclusion than any of this dreck.
! It could have been better if these new characters weren't apparently the cause of everything bad that ever happened even though we'd never heard of them. If they wanted to make a series focused on just those new characters, then they shouldn't have teased a focus on all of the old ones. Even if we just left DR3 a seperate plot with no old characters, it was still a confusing mess, and Seiko's, Ruruka's, and Yoi's plot didn't fit into it at all.
! Despite all this crap, I'm still a little cautiously optimistic about NDRV3. I hope it comes out on computer soon after release, so I can play it.
I'm sorry and you can stone me if you want, but I just can't agree with the overall sentiment.
For all its flaws and that a few more episodes would have helped a lot, the show did many great things IMO.
How can someone despise Yukizome and Gozu?
How can someone despise Yukizome and Gozu?
Chisa was the highlight of the show.
! She orchestrated everything to lead the FF to its collapse. And as the icing of the cake she killed herself to drive Munakata mad.
! Tengan may have been architect, but he too was also manipulated by Chisa.
Gozu was a bro.
How can someone despise Yukizome and Gozu?
Gozu is great, but one note.
Chisa is just an awful non-character.
While I can understand the criticism, my sentiments on the show as a whole lie on the other side. As in, I thoroughly enjoyed it, looked forward to it, and was seriously hyped during many parts of it. And as a whole, while there are big negatives on this, I would consider it as detracting to deprive oneself of this. More detailed commentary below:
! On the future side:
! On Despair:
! I think those last details are down the line what bothers me the most, and the most blatant cases of "not enough time, cheese it." And given the ending we got, sure, brainwashing is something I can take assuming it would be progressive and start with mikan and then be insidiously spread to others in a way more subtle manner. But nope, no time. But the whole slew of non-sensical Junko fan-service, the out of character comic-relief Mukuro, and the irrational happiness of the 77th class despite murder having hit them soooo close sooo early... it's hard to buy.
! +... and yet, like with the future side, I still actually enjoyed watching it. What was good was good, and the fact remains it was seriously entertaining, and while more flawed than the games, I have to be real and admit that the games, particularly DR1, also have pretty solid flaws that cannot be ignored, but even then when it's fun, it's fun.
! And that's that. I do wish there had been more balance of good and bad in discussions here as a whole, since that did detract from my experience as anytime I came here excited to discuss it was just a cycle of despair and sadness over here so I kept myself out of it for a while. But hey, I leave that as a thought to the people who really hated it that much: what DID you like about it?
! Well that was a wreck. I like how Naegi's expression this episode was that of tired and happiness.
Happy because this crap is finally over and tired because he's sick of it.
What was that word again? SHIT!!!
! You see if DR 3 is actually the first ten minutes of badass action scenes that doesn't take itself so seriously and is a fanservice thing then it might actually be half as fun as the original game. But nope, we had this mess.
! Megumi Ogata talking to Megumi Ogata was a lot of fun!
Kyoko being revived because no fucking way the writers are competent enough to kill a fan favourite was nice!
The essence of DanganRonpa has been completely invalidated by this episode I want to bury it so bad.
Ugh.
–- Update From New Post Merge ---
! After finishing up the DRV3 story line (hopefully with two to three visual novels and no anime), Kodaka declares this piece of shit anime an alternate universe and remakes DR3: End of Hope's Peak in a way that doesn't feel like shitty fan pandering. I want a proper conclusion to this series: Danganronpa 1 & 2 were too excellent to deserve such a shitty finale.
Holy shit that would be great.
But hey, emotionally I am happy for this ending. Logically I say:
!
But hey, emotionally I am happy for this ending. Logically I say:
! I wish I could at least have emotional satisfaction in this mountain of fanservice, but with both Chiakis remaining dead, I can't share in the sentiment. Yes, wanting a character who got killed twice to magically come back to life with absolutely no foreshadowing or previous buildup would be terrible, but that logic only applies when the writing isn't garbage, which I think you and I can agree, it certainly is in the case of Danganronpa 3. BRING MAH WAIFU BACK TO LIFE KODAKA!!!!!!!!!!!
I think I found the apt comparison for this. DR3 is like the Star Wars prequel trilogy. Bad writing and explanations cheapen the plot of the series as a whole, and the best thing to do overall is disregard them. There's an introduction of new characters that are either awful (Juzo/Jar Jar), or boring (Chisa/Qui-Gon Jinn), with few really redeeming ones. An antagonist you once thought was interesting is revealed to be shallow (Junko/Anakin), and their reasons for evil prove to be downright idiotic. We have the whole retcon of a central phenomenon into something really lame (despair>brainwashing/force>midichlorians). If you draw a comparison between Juzo and Anakin, you even get shitty romantic angst as the driving force behind countless atrocities.
There's more stupidity there that I've addressed a bunch of times before, so I'm gonna twist the knife into a new beef. We got fakeouts on the death of DR1 characters two times, and each time they added nothing to the plot at all. Three, if you count Byakuya getting buried in rubble, but at least there wasn't an explicit death scene for that. Ugh.
! Must be pretty awkward for the DR 2 killers huh.
Remember that time I skewered you like a pork? Or that one time I smashed your head with my sword!
…uh let's forget that, it's okay we have hope and hey it's VR so it's fine!
Now I feel sad for DR 1 killers. They deserve redemption too man. Well except for that Leon guy, he's pretty pointless.
Here's a reminder of how good DR games were. I hum this in my hopeful mind all the time.
Always look at the hopeful side of things.
–- Update From New Post Merge ---
I hope we have a general consensus that Kodaka is not to be blamed..fully. Maybe a little, I don't know but my beef is with the shit anime writers.
Pretty sure he had limited creativity rights when it comes to this anime.
! I wish I could at least have emotional satisfaction in this mountain of fanservice, but with both Chiakis remaining dead, I can't share in the sentiment. Yes, wanting a character who got killed twice to magically come back to life with absolutely no foreshadowing or previous buildup would be terrible, but that logic only applies when the writing isn't garbage, which I think you and I can agree, it certainly is in the case of Danganronpa 3. BRING MAH WAIFU BACK TO LIFE KODAKA!!!!!!!!!!!
The first episode of Future has to be the best because back then there were so many expectations.
I feel bad for your Waifu, but hey Izuru is Ultimate Everything so maybe one day in the future he'll bring her back.
Not that I approve of her being alive because she's really supposed to stay dead but all logic is gone anyway. Just bring back everyone!
I miss Celeste. She was so cool compared to shallow Junko.
Kyoko was used as a scapegoat for drama and was a big slap to such a polished character.
Wow, the salt in this thread is real. Keep it up guys, you are amusing me a lot.
Guess I'm just going to reply the only post in this thread that is worth a reply.
While I can understand the criticism, my sentiments on the show as a whole lie on the other side. As in, I thoroughly enjoyed it, looked forward to it, and was seriously hyped during many parts of it. And as a whole, while there are big negatives on this, I would consider it as detracting to deprive oneself of this. More detailed commentary below:
! On the future side:
- A lot of people complain about the characters of the show overshadowing the ones from the games far too much, and while I agree that with the despair side this was genuinely and extremely disappointing, it makes sense that in a third part of the trilogy that's INTRODUCING characters there's an attempt to give them as much importance as the rest. Otherwise, the entire future side would have just been a meticulous waste of time, which is something I was honestly afraid of in the beginning.
In particular, characters like Chisa, Gozu, Seiko and Kizakura were phenomenal additions. It truly sucks that Gozu in particular got offed so early, but he was still awesome. Others I didn't care about, but still had clear character arcs.
- In that sense, my main disappointment is with Gekkogahara. There was so much that implied she took part in the neo world program and as a result she seemed SO interesting, but instead her presence just turned into a segway into a fan-service episode to "conclude" the story of ultra despair girls. Super weak stuff to me, and as a whole I think this is one thing the show could have done without and resolved much more efficiently some other way.
- I also will agree that the final conclusion and answers to all the mysteries were rather disappointing and the whole thing where it was all for Mitarai to do what he did seems flaky to me. I would have enjoyed much more if he had had an actual fall into despair following the Junko situation and then from there eventually have grown to want to bring down the future foundation given the behavior and feud of Munakata and Tengen resembling despair or something of the sort. There was room for that to be a development and it would have tied in much better with the story than Tengen being ok with killing all these people.
- Why was Yasuhiro even in this. Seriously, I mean, I was hoping that he would participate and there'd be some redemption to his character STILL being alive, but nope, still just as useless as ever. Fuck this guy.
- But ultimately, I think even with all the criticisms and flaws, the fact is that I actually enjoyed watching it, and got invested in what was happening. Characters that started out as boring cardboard cutouts to me actually became fleshed out characters with personalities and flaws, which is more than I can say for ones like Mahiru. And then looking back at an episode like 5, which I believe was Seiko's episode… that was a really well-constructed episode, and given things like that I can't really complain. I set out on this not to expect the most epic, plot-twisty of stories, but expecting entertainment and hype and investment and character development, and I did get those.
! On Despair:
- Obligatory bias: Chiaki. Her being fleshed out so much and given more meaning than just some AI was a phenomenal idea and the closure her story gets in the last episode is gold for me. As a fan of her (and Kyoko's too!) I was very pleased with her.
- The impostor is a BAMF. One of the characters that got the least chance to shine in the game, and in the anime they more than made up for that. What a great character, and him mimicing munakata in that last episode was fucking hilarious.
- The way the beginning of the tragedy and the apex of it were presented was very solidly done and as morbid and horrifying as was expected. I also really enjoyed actually getting to see Jin Kirigiri making the call that needed to be made and seeing all the background to DR1 being set up.
- Kinda on the same note, it was as brutal as expected. Chiaki's death actually felt brutal to me. I know others don't think similarly, but too bad, it actually did have impact for me. Then there's things like Junko scooping out a guy's eyes out, Chisa getting brainwashed... or even that scene with despair Mikan and Mitarai... when they wanted to, they were really good at selling the brutality of despair.
- The 77th class got shafted far too much and the plot device involving the brainwashing led to them pretty much cheesing this entire part. I think this is overall my main disappointment overall. DR2 gave the impression that it was Junko who personally drove each individual into despair in particular ways for each one, and part of the fun in the pre-airing of this anime was wondering how exactly it was that some of these characters went into such deep despair. With some it was even almost announced too... Hanamura in the second episode got pretty dark before getting punched by Nanami, and I definitely thought that would be something played on later on. But nope, brainwashing. On that note...
- The whole deal with Fuyuhiko's sister getting killed went absolutely nowhere. Was it eventually discovered that he killed Mahiru's friend? nope. The despair of that situation didn't go anywhere, and instead it was a year later and everyone was happy. How is it that the only impact of this event was on Hinata? Bullshit. I think this is hands-down the worst incorporation of in-game lore.
- And then there's Junko and Mukuro. When it started out and they entered I was down with them. Insane and zany and evil as fuck, but as it went on it got more incredulous. First of all, there's the fact that renowned badass Mukuro who everyone should have been afraid of, and who Kyoko and Jin suspected first, was instead walking around being super meek and as a servant to a Junko that was not even close to hiding at all how fucking insane she was. The whole presentation of these characters works in the reality where we know how fucked up they are and what they lead to, but it doesn't work at all when considering the reality of them having had to spend time with the 78th class at some point enough for the students of that class AND Jin to have felt safe and compelled to trust them when locking themselves in the school. There needed to be a moment where Jin gave himself the benefit of the doubt to trust Mukuro could be redeemed, but we never got that. There needed to be moments of Junko blending in and not being suspicious. Heck, why DID Munakata suspect Junko and NOT Mukuro? That makes no sense to me either.
! I think those last details are down the line what bothers me the most, and the most blatant cases of "not enough time, cheese it." And given the ending we got, sure, brainwashing is something I can take assuming it would be progressive and start with mikan and then be insidiously spread to others in a way more subtle manner. But nope, no time. But the whole slew of non-sensical Junko fan-service, the out of character comic-relief Mukuro, and the irrational happiness of the 77th class despite murder having hit them soooo close sooo early... it's hard to buy.
! +... and yet, like with the future side, I still actually enjoyed watching it. What was good was good, and the fact remains it was seriously entertaining, and while more flawed than the games, I have to be real and admit that the games, particularly DR1, also have pretty solid flaws that cannot be ignored, but even then when it's fun, it's fun.
! And that's that. I do wish there had been more balance of good and bad in discussions here as a whole, since that did detract from my experience as anytime I came here excited to discuss it was just a cycle of despair and sadness over here so I kept myself out of it for a while. But hey, I leave that as a thought to the people who really hated it that much: what DID you like about it?
First. my final thoughts go pretty much in line with yours: not enough time, a limited budget, but in the end, enjoyable overall. Second. Do not bother with that last question, you can sense it in the atmosphere that only those who have been really invested in this project are going to read you.
A few things to add:
! The explanation at how AI Chiaki was created was wonderful and it made a lot of sense. She was born from the collective memories of all her classmates who deep down and despite having become Remnants of Despair, they all shared the same wish: To see Chiaki again.
! This has already been said, but Kirigiri's survival had a lot of foreshadowing prior to that. But I guess bringing back someone who got skewered all over her body and left to bleed till death would have made more sense to certain minds. And I do like Chiaki a lot, mind you.
! Kodaka had to choose between fleshing out the new cast of characters, or focus solely on Class-77. Eventually, they chose the later, aware that many of the things that happened in Future wouldn't have been properly explained without Despair.
! Overall, with all the trouble and a budget that only afforded 12 episodes max per arc, I think they did a fairly good job.
You act like having 24 episodes is a handicap. FMA 2003 had only one more episode than that, and, despite a shoddy ending, was still considered a masterpiece before Brotherhood overshadowed it. Ping Pong fully fleshed out about as many characters as DR3 added in only 11 episodes. FLCL left a mark on a whole generation in 6. Not to mention that there's a bunch of episodes in DR3's run that don't add anything to the plot. I don't normally complain about 'filler', but I think it's silly to say they were constrained when they had enough time to do things like the Seiko/Ruruka/Yoi ep, or the Twilight Murder Syndrome story in Despair, or the UDG ep in Future.
Granted what DR3 tried to do was ambitious, and different, different isn't always better. I think DR3 could have gained a lot by dedicating itself to just one story. If they couldn't dedicate time to the despairs being manipulated, they'd have best left that to the imagination and given more time to fleshing out the Future story. Or scrapped that mess, and did a story more focused on the characters we knew. Or did a story focused only on new characters. DR0 pretty much did the latter, and it managed to add to the series plot, without being intrusive. They really weren't constrained to this story at all, they just tried to do everything and kinda fell flat on their asses.
Wow, the salt in this thread is real. Keep it up guys, you are amusing me a lot.
!
DanganRonpa 3 as a series is objectively bad but people coming from the game can have subjective opinions about the series.
I personally think it is pretty bad with its redeeming qualities being the few moments of Despair side.
You can defend the way the series handle the characters because even that to an extend can be subjective.
But I don't see how anyone can defend the storytelling and plot of this show.
Don't even dare bring in crap like because they live in a crazy world so characters can survive in crazy ways and cite examples from DR 1 and 2.
That doesn't make sense at all, this thing is a joke compared to the two games. That is all.
Objectively bad is a strong one to throw around. Flawed, definitely, but bad is a weird loose categorization that doesn't work with objectivity.
Wagomu: we are talking about 24 episodes for a series in which people WANTED rich and detailed characterization for about 32+ characters while also wanting a bunch of plot points to happen. So yes, with that context in mind, 24 episodes broken in half for each side definitely affects the expected quality of this series.
And I love Chiaki, probably more than Kyoko, and the conclusion we got makes the most sense. Salting about it just sounds inane to me and complaining for the sake of complaining.
Wagomu: we are talking about 24 episodes for a series in which people WANTED rich and detailed characterization for about 32+ characters while also wanting a bunch of plot points to happen. So yes, with that context in mind, 24 episodes broken in half for each side definitely affects the expected quality of this series.
I put that entirely on the series, since a bunch of those characters were new, on top of the other characters that were teased and we already wanted to see. Nobody would be excited for 32+ characters if 32+ characters weren't promised. Plus, the characterization on the old dudes we knew was already done, and just needed to be conveyed more in their scenes. The DR1 guys got it a bit, and the additional focus on imposter was a nice surprise, but everyone else was stripped down to their gimmicks. Even then, going by a pure numbers game, FMA 2003 still delivered about as many characters in the same timespan with greater average complexity, without precedent, and did just fine. Now, going by numbers is dumb for something like this, but I just want to point out that it can be done.
Like I said before, the problem is that Kodaka wanted to do everything. He wanted his DR1 characters, his DR2 characters, new characters, old stories, and new stories all together in a single package. We got stuff like the Twilight Murder Syndrome episode, which brought up characters and events that would not be dealt with outside of that episode, which we wanted to see, but really didn't have a place in the experience. There's plenty of places where it feels like he was stretching to fit the space he had or throwing in unnecessary things. Plus, it's not like someone put a gun to his head and told him that he had to make two series worth of episodes and split them like that. Most series are lucky to get a 12 cour. Kodaka had a lot to work with, and then made his scope too broad.
And I love Chiaki, probably more than Kyoko, and the conclusion we got makes the most sense. Salting about it just sounds inane to me and complaining for the sake of complaining.
I don't think it's inane when DR3 encompasses the whole canon of the series. It'd be one thing if it was separate and didn't have any consequences, but it rewrites characters and situations in mostly bad ways. It swept away all the implied conflict and depth within the 77th class, and turned the despair from an interesting situation where people's craving for change and destruction boiled over, into something simple about brainwashing. The DR games have always been about how close people are to their breaking points, so I think it really harms the series for brainwashing to be the only reason anything happened.
Edit: Making a correction since I misread the FMA 2003 episode list and it's twice the length law. Sorry about me being dumb. I can pull a number of other examples, though. Baccano! managed to flesh out a large cast in only 16 episodes (the intro names 17 characters that all get focus and development, and there's definitely more in the story).
True about it being a self-imposed issue by trying to create a third game, but I still disagree with you in that it was overall worthless. A lot of the new characters introduced were done as a result of them being personally involved in the events that transpired and having the whole situation be explained in a prequel without those characters existing would have really just put the tragedy situation in more of a vacuum than it was already.
Also, you guys maintain the stance that this shits on the established things from the game, but outside those I stated in my commentary, I disagree completely. The tragedy and all the back story was, aside from DR0, extremely lacking in the games and pretty much just set up as a shenanigan to drive the end plot twist forward. And I think that's in the end another factor that irks me, that people talk about the story of DR games like they are gold but that's far from the case. They are just as flawed and filled with holes, but then at least for me ultimately what makes the series is the characterization, which like I mentioned in my commentary felt solid for many characters at the expense of the 77th class not getting so much screen time.
And bottom line to is that your response fails in any way to justify the salting of "WHY ISN'T CHARACTERS I CONSIDER WAIFU ALIVE??"… Nothing you said fails to explain how that isn't inane when it's a character who had no reason or indication whatsoever from even existing in this show, much less somehow being alive despite everything.
at least we still have Gundham
But why is Sakura still gone. 0/10 DR3 is the worst.
it's okay she's returning in V3 as the SHSL Pure Angel
she survives because you can't die twice
Well it messes with the canon because it gives bad answers to questions we had. Like in Naruto, technically we didn't know Gaara's dad's motivations in raising him before we met him during the zombie war, but they still destroyed any tension in the dude's backstory by being bad. In that way, technically nobody said that people weren't brainwashed in the despair, but technically nobody said that despair wasn't actually an alien bacteria that spread through certain people's bloodstreams.
I always thought Junko implied that it was some sort of collective nihilistic desire awakened when they were shown just how awful the supposed best of society were, or something like that. For the 77th class, we were straight up told that Junko had manipulated their various flaws, insecurities, and personal problems to warp them into despair, which fits with how most of their stories have a shred or two of darkness. Maybe we didn't get specific explanations on those, maybe my feeling on the former one is just conjecture, but the brainwashing stuff walls off any potential depth they could have had. It's a cheap and boring blanket explanation that neither fits Junko's character, nor the character of the story. The end of DR1 had impact because the world wasn't destroyed just by Junko, but the people within it, in a spreading consensus. The end of DR2 had impact because the characters you knew and grew to love or hate were all actually heinous villains who committed horrible atrocities. By the end of DR3 it's all okay, since everything is Junko's fault. See my problem?
I've no clue about the waifu alive thing, as far as I know, that statement has nothing to do with me and I wasn't addressing it?
And bottom line to is that your response fails in any way to justify the salting of "WHY ISN'T CHARACTERS I CONSIDER WAIFU ALIVE??"… Nothing you said fails to explain how that isn't inane when it's a character who had no reason or indication whatsoever from even existing in this show, much less somehow being alive despite everything.
I think there is a misunderstanding. I said if the writing was not this pathetic fanservice nonsense, I would be happy if Chiaki stayed dead, but seeing how that's not the case, and the finale (and the show itself really) was a pandering abomination, I'm bitter that the one thing I wanted to see, that being Chiaki alive, when pretty much every other bit of shitty wish fulfillment thing happened (I don't care if those things were foreshadowed; I could care less about that when the series jumped the shark for me around Future episode 11.) At that point, I gave up a desire for competent writing, and I simply wanted to Chiaki to live. Yes, my wish is completely retarded from pretty much all angles, but it would've left me at least a little emotionally satisfied with this crap-tastic series' finale. I guess that's why I'm so sour about all of this: the series couldn't deliver on writing for me, and then my last hope (no matter how stupid it was), was dashed to bits in a finale that took pandering to the fucking max.
Chiaki is still alive….............................
in our hearts
Objectively bad is a strong one to throw around. Flawed, definitely, but bad is a weird loose categorization that doesn't work with objectivity.
Yeah I guess that is a pretty strong term.
I say it's bad because it's generally the only word that came to mind, I can probably give off a list of what's terribly done in this series but I don't see any need for me to warrant any further bashing considering a lot of people have done it already.
You can have your own subjective opinion about this but it's hard for anyone to say that this series have done more rights than wrongs.
Well it messes with the canon because it gives bad answers to questions we had. Like in Naruto, technically we didn't know Gaara's dad's motivations in raising him before we met him during the zombie war, but they still destroyed any tension in the dude's backstory by being bad. In that way, technically nobody said that people weren't brainwashed in the despair, but technically nobody said that despair wasn't actually an alien bacteria that spread through certain people's bloodstreams.
I always thought Junko implied that it was some sort of collective nihilistic desire awakened when they were shown just how awful the supposed best of society were, or something like that. For the 77th class, we were straight up told that Junko had manipulated their various flaws, insecurities, and personal problems to warp them into despair, which fits with how most of their stories have a shred or two of darkness. Maybe we didn't get specific explanations on those, maybe my feeling on the former one is just conjecture, but the brainwashing stuff walls off any potential depth they could have had. It's a cheap and boring blanket explanation that neither fits Junko's character, nor the character of the story. The end of DR1 had impact because the world wasn't destroyed just by Junko, but the people within it, in a spreading consensus. The end of DR2 had impact because the characters you knew and grew to love or hate were all actually heinous villains who committed horrible atrocities. By the end of DR3 it's all okay, since everything is Junko's fault. See my problem?
I've no clue about the waifu alive thing, as far as I know, that statement has nothing to do with me and I wasn't addressing it?
Naruto comparison does nothing for me. Mostly in that I know nothing of it.
The second point you mention is something I already addressed myself as a flaw I definitely agree with. I just don't think it retroactively fucks up the stories of the games, because then again, the stories in the games were originally flawed enough to where it wasn't what kept me hooked as much as the characters themselves did. Maybe to you DR1 ending was epic in that it implied darkness or w.e. else, but for me the shining moment of it was Junko plot twist and then… that's it. The explanation of the tragedy, reality show, memory wipe were all things that had already been established as possibilities extremely early on to the point they weren't surprises. And then you have the thing where they talk about the tragedy but tell you diddily squat about it. It's like the writers just figured that instead of completely concluding what they established they'd just cheese it and let people imagine it. With that in mind, AT LEAST DR3 had no shortcut taking of that sort. OF COURSE, it's still flawed and by no means better than the games... but what I'm trying to point out is that to me DR3 shortcuts and bad calls are in the same range of flawed as story elements in DR1, just more ambitious and as a result more glaring.
DR2 I will admit had a much better closure, but even then it's unbelievable how many shenanigans were included to give the ending a sense of stakes. It's like the game was trying to one-up itself.
As for the waifu alive thing, I respond to you about it because you responded to my initial comment about it. Which makes me inclined to think you misunderstood the context when I originally brought it up.
hoseminuba: nope, sorry, still sounds stupid when for the past two pages you keep bitching about it. Even if it's supposed to be tongue-in-cheek or satiric or a joke, it's tired and just sounds absurd. It's essentially ridiculous bargaining "ok, show, since you didn't do exactly what I want, at the least I want you to do [other impossible thing]…. WHAT, YOU DIDN'T DO THAT EITHER? HOW DARE YOU??"
Sounds like entitled resentment because the show pandered to others but not to you. If it had pandered to you, then of course it would have been better! Come on man, I know you have better reasons and arguments to not liking the show, you should stick to those instead of something so silly that it makes you look petty.
--- Update From New Post Merge ---
Yeah I guess that is a pretty strong term.
I say it's bad because it's generally the only word that came to mind, I can probably give off a list of what's terribly done in this series but I don't see any need for me to warrant any further bashing considering a lot of people have done it already.
You can have your own subjective opinion about this but it's hard for anyone to say that this series have done more rights than wrongs.
For sure, like I said it's definitely a flawed item. In many many ways, but whether or not those flaws exist to the point it's a bad product as opposed to a good one is something that relies entirely on viewer experience and what they meant to get from it. The flaws I saw did not interfere with my enjoyment, hence I thought it was good.
What I want to discourage is from a black and white situation where people go "you liked the show? No youre wrong it was a bad show", so that at the least people who DID enjoy the show can also come here and talk about it.
edit: also, Wagomu, I kinda want to suggest we move past a point of spoilering everything in here and move towards simply putting "(SPOILERS)" in the title of the thread. I mean, I get spoilering things about an episode or game as it just came out and people still need time to play it, but I think DR1 and DR2 events should be open enough for open discussion while we still have a warning for new fans to enter here at their risk.
Naruto comparison does nothing for me. Mostly in that I know nothing of it.
The second point you mention is something I already addressed myself as a flaw I definitely agree with. I just don't think it retroactively fucks up the stories of the games, because then again, the stories in the games were originally flawed enough to where it wasn't what kept me hooked as much as the characters themselves did. Maybe to you DR1 ending was epic in that it implied darkness or w.e. else, but for me the shining moment of it was Junko plot twist and then… that's it. The explanation of the tragedy, reality show, memory wipe were all things that had already been established as possibilities extremely early on to the point they weren't surprises. And then you have the thing where they talk about the tragedy but tell you diddily squat about it. It's like the writers just figured that instead of completely concluding what they established they'd just cheese it and let people imagine it. With that in mind, AT LEAST DR3 had no shortcut taking of that sort. OF COURSE, it's still flawed and by no means better than the games... but what I'm trying to point out is that to me DR3 shortcuts and bad calls are in the same range of flawed as story elements in DR1, just more ambitious and as a result more glaring.
DR2 I will admit had a much better closure, but even then it's unbelievable how many shenanigans were included to give the ending a sense of stakes. It's like the game was trying to one-up itself.
The reason the brainwashing is so bad is that, in a character-driven story, it prevents you from reading into the characters. It's a lazy out on the dangling questions that mars the series by tying all loose ends to one solution. The stories of the games have their flaws, but I don't think it's ever done something that bad. Sure it's forgotten and outright ignored things in the past (like Junko telling the DR1 gang about each of the despairs they'd have to fight once they left), or done things that messed with stakes (DR2's ending allowing the cast to be alive), but the worst of it is all self-contained, and I think the latter case actually has merit (which is another discussion). DR3 to me is like if DR2's end revealed that all of DR1 was a simulation, too, and the despair was all a simulation.
As for laziness, I'd argue that this sort of writing is lazier in a way. Not literally lazier since it involves some work, but lazier in the sense that it answers all remaining questions with a singular easy out, and then closes all discussions on it. It's tacked-on, all-encompassing, and facile.
As for the waifu alive thing, I respond to you about it because you responded to my initial comment about it. Which makes me inclined to think you misunderstood the context when I originally brought it up.
hoseminuba: nope, sorry, still sounds stupid when for the past two pages you keep bitching about it. Even if it's supposed to be tongue-in-cheek or satiric or a joke, it's tired and just sounds absurd. It's essentially ridiculous bargaining "ok, show, since you didn't do exactly what I want, at the least I want you to do [other impossible thing]…. WHAT, YOU DIDN'T DO THAT EITHER? HOW DARE YOU??"
Sounds like entitled resentment because the show pandered to others but not to you. If it had pandered to you, then of course it would have been better! Come on man, I know you have better reasons and arguments to not liking the show, you should stick to those instead of something so silly that it makes you look petty.
Yeah, I thought you were just complaining about salt at the end in general. I don't care about waifus and stuff. I've talked before about some of the stuff I would do if I could rewrite bits of the series, and the deaths of my fave characters are actually one of the things I wouldn't change, since I think those moments were nice and suited the characters and story pretty well. In the case of Chiaki here, I think her being alive would be dumb with the stuff given.
If I'm being honest, though, I still liked the idea of despair!Chiaki, and my enjoyment of that idea got reenforced in the end. I think that last scene of the 77th class accepting Mitarai would have been so much better if it were them appealing to an evil Chiaki. Then we could get the whole 'you saved me, now I save you' effect. That's all fanfic, tho.
edit: also, Wagomu, I kinda want to suggest we move past a point of spoilering everything in here and move towards simply putting "(SPOILERS)" in the title of the thread. I mean, I get spoilering things about an episode or game as it just came out and people still need time to play it, but I think DR1 and DR2 events should be open enough for open discussion while we still have a warning for new fans to enter here at their risk.
Yeah, I'll get on that.
I get you hosen, when Bleach ended with my ship that didn't sail I bought a beer.
I really wish I could be more bitter about this series but if anyone noticed, I stopped being fully invested a few episodes ago when I was disappointed.
That and my favourite Nagito is back being Nagito again.
And the world is fine once more.
well now that the first saga's over let's start taking bets on who the first to bite it is in V3
My money's on either the robot or the kindergarten teacher
well now that the first saga's over let's start taking bets on who the first to bite it is in V3
My money's on either the robot or the kindergarten teacher
Has the list of characters been announced then? Where can I find it?
My money is on [insert likable character]
Has the list of characters been announced then? Where can I find it?
My money is on [insert likable character]
Here: http://www.siliconera.com/2016/09/27/heres-look-new-danganronpa-v3s-main-characters-titles/
Has the list of characters been announced then? Where can I find it?
My money is on [insert likable character]
I'll go down the list with their designs for everyone's reference.
image dump under the spoiler!
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Kaede Akamatsu - SHSL/Ultimate Pianist
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Keebo - SHSL/Ultimate Robot
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Kaito Momota - SHSL/Ultimate Astronaut
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Maki Harukawa - SHSL/Ultimate Kindergarten Teacher
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Tenko Chabashira - SHSL/Ultimate Aikido Master
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Kokichi Ouma - SHSL/Ultimate Dictator
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Shuuichi Saihara - SHSL/Ultimate Detective
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Ryouma Hoshii - SHSL/Ultimate Tennis Player
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Tsumugi Shirogane - SHSL/Ultimate Cosplayer
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Miu Iruma - SHSL/Ultimate Inventor
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Gonta Gokuhara - SHSL/Ultimate Entomologist
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Himiko Yumeno - SHSL/Ultimate Magician
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Korekyou Shinguuji - SHSL/Ultimate Folklorist
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Angie Yonaga - SHSL/Ultimate Fine Artist
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Kirumi Toujou - SHSL/Ultimate Maid
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Rantarou Amami - SHSL/Ultimate ???