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    Criticism of One Piece

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    • FelRes
      FelRes
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      FelRes
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      FelRes
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      Wall of text warning. Since some people thought it would be an interesting thread, I'm just gonna go ahead and do this thread. If it gets locked, then wutever, don't really care.

      Basically, I notice there are threads dedicated to praising One Piece. The only one dedicated to the opposite seems to more-or-less be a rant thread that's more about story content than the manga as a whole. I feel like there should be a thread about criticizing the manga as a whole instead of picky little arguments that derail threads for a couple pages. So I'm just gonna go ahead and post the criticisms I have about the manga, Oda, and even the fandom. And boy do I hate the term "fandom". If it helps you with my perspective, this thread is being done by a guy who has been reading One Piece since around 2005, and has reread the his volumes many, many, many times. I practically stalk this series worse than Brainy stalks Helga. Aside from that, I'm actually not a huge anime/manga fan outside of films - I'm more interested in video games and sports and crap. I am also someone who likes to discuss One Piece outside of this message board due to the fact that a One Piece based board is going to be incredibly biased. And the fact is that the way this message board sees One Piece is, well, vastly different than pretty much everywhere else I see OP talk. That doesn't include Onemanga. God forbid.

      In case you guys didn't know, this is what people think of One Piece after the timeskip, as of like… last week when I asked a really active general board what the general consensus was:

      ! > Best series of the big 3, but has been at a pretty consistent low since the timeskip.

      Though I do like this current arc waaaaaaaaaaaaaay more than the Fishman Island arc.
      ! > Time skips seem to kill every manga that has one
      ! > Sucks ass now
      ! > t's a pretty average story, I liked it early on but it got kind of boring as it went on. It kinda feels like it has been dragging on for a while now. Even Bleach and Naruto feel closer to an actual conclusion than One Piece appears to be.
      ! > One Piece is pure awesome.
      ! > Sanji and Nami are disappointing in the post-timeskip.

      Notice most people aren't pleased. Also, if you ask about Sanji, you will usually get expletives in the vain of "f*cking awful". Essentially, criticism is more openly talked about. Here, you'll get people defending damn near anything that gets picked apart. This will include typical fanboys who defend anything to death. This will include people calling the critic a troll - these people should try trolling sometimes, maybe they'll learn to identify an actual troll. This will include neutral people who are having a hard time admitting to themselves One Piece just isn't quite as great as it used to be, which is fine. And of course, this will include condescending users, sometimes mods, who give off the idea that they feel their opinions are worth more for some stupid reason. Fanboyism and egos are a problem imo, cause they give such a bad rep.

      So anyways, that's more-or-less what I have to say about how some(but certainly not all or even most) of you present yourself as. Maybe some of you should try chatting about One Piece on sites not related to manga/anime or whatever. The opinions are pretty different in my experience, as I've shown. Now I'll just touch upon some things about the manga itself that upset me and many others. This is gonna be focused on post-timeskip material compared to stuff that's years old. Maybe I'll mention something that you're thinking, but just can't put into words or something. If so, please feel free to share your own criticism, or tweak things to better express what you feel like saying.


      One thing that most notably is off since the timeskip is the pacing of the story. I think everyone agrees that Fishman Island was weird about that, and it seems like everyone has their own opinion on pretty much every section of that arc. At that, not enough people are realizing that Punk Hazard is no better in this regard. Punk Hazard lured people in by starting off as the first island of the New World. We saw the ocean on fire, we saw the Straw Hats explore a chaotic island for a few chapters. Indeed, it was very exciting. That fast paced excitement died around the time Franky's group ran into the marines and ran back inside. At that point onward, chapters were getting slower. It feels like Oda himself is stretching chapters just for the sole purpose of ending on some cliffhanger. I find this unnecessary. This isn't the war anymore. PH seems like it shoulda been finished like 5-10 chapters ago, but… it just keeps going and going with no end in sight. Why does this worry me? It's been two years since the timeskip and we're only in the second arc, excluding the quick reunion, and the third arc doesn't seem to be coming anytime soon. Is the rest of the manga going to be full of 30-50 chapter arcs? I don't see how the hell OP will end in about a decade if every arc takes like a year or more to tell. I don't want to see chapters where a group of Straw Hats move from one room to the next, I want to see them get shit done. It's just so consistently slow. Key word: consistent. People will say there's been slow parts before, but really, stuff used to get done and it was never slow for two years.

      Another noticeable problem is character interaction. We have 9 Straw Hats. In most arcs, there's usually some companion characters interacting with the crew - Johnny/Yosaku, Vivi/Carue, Conis/Gun Fall, Kokoro/Chimney/Gonbe, Camie/Pappug/Hatchan. And many, many more that also require attention. As the story goes on, it feels like Oda is handling this worse and worse. At this point, the main characters themselves have shallow interactions. How so? Robin will make a creepy remark. Sanji will do a perverted thing. Usopp will freak out. Franky will do a "cool" cyborg thing. Luffy will be a doofus. Some of these characters are becoming more and more one-dimensional. While they do have some good moments, it really has been watered down as a whole. It just feels like I'm watching a bunch of weird, overpowered, douches go on some boat ride now.

      Character development is nearly non-existent now. Luffy is a Mary Sue. That's it. He's some goody guy who can barely be scratched, pulls out random moves, never has a real challenge, pretty much everyone in-story likes him, and he always wins. I don't like this. He has no real flaws that aren't just there for cheap laughs. Sure, there's his super amazing ability to drown, but that's rarely ever relevant now. Give the other characters a chance to shine in the hero spot light - and I mean for more than a couple of pages. And let's see them develop their personalities a bit more. Only person with any real development is Chopper. He's no longer just the team mascot. He actually became brave over the timeskip, as opposed to Usopp who still chickens out. Chopper can fight and has accepted himself as a monster. He does his crew job more often, and had a really good moment when he discovered the PH kids were being fed addicting drugs. Yet he's easily one of the most overlooked characters. I'd go so far as to say he's the most well-written character at this point in the story, with Brook and Nami following behind him. Which brings me to the worst…

      Sanji. Sanji, Sanji, Sanji. This is the only site where I've seen such blind and defensive love for a character. There were already signs that his character was going in a bad direction when he fought Absolom over the invisibility fruit. It wasn't bad then and it seemed like just a one-off perv gag. Then the timeskip happened. Oh boy. First off, he's reintroduced as being really inconsiderate to the Okama guys(though being portrayed so awfully, it's hard to blame him). He has to do rehabilitation with Chopper on the way down to Fishman Island. This was annoying. I didn't mind it when he saw Hancock. I felt it was played out by the time he saw Shirahoshi. But there was that moment with the mermaids when he was pressed up against poor Ishilly. That really freaking stupid as hell nosebleed. That was it for most people outside of this forum. He had officially jumped the shark. His pervertedness had gotten out of hand and has become astronomically annoying. Surely this would end eventua-oh, Law put him in Nami's body. Yeah. Great. This coulda been lulzy if he didn't have a bad history since the timeskip, but, well, he did have a bad history since the timeskip. The whole self-molesting Nami thing was… too much. It lowers his character and it lowers my expectations of how he will act in the future. Most people I have talked to agree that he is an absolutely terrible character and should just go away forever. And while we're on him, what is it with his new moves having to have a mention of his time on his timeskip island? Hops around in water - REMEMBER THAT HORRIBLE TIME. Pulls off some CP9 shiz? GOD THAT HORRIBLE TIME ON THAT ISLAND. When the other Straw Hats show off a new move, we don't get some banter like that. The guy needs some character development, and soon. The white knighting needs to die, too. He refused to hurt Kalifa pre-timeskip and Nami had to fight her after fending off Kumadori. There was a point where Sanji pointed a gun at Robin when she was an antagonist. So it can be said that he's been getting worse for the entirety of the manga. Also, his new facial hair is douchey. Really, I'm having a very hard time seeing what people enjoy about his character now.

      If you made it this far, have a cookie break:

      !
      There's an over-abundance of characters. This one is pretty self-explanatory. We get characters introduced who really don't do much. Did Ryuboshi and Manboshi do anything relevant aside from making Shirahoshi stop crying in the flashback? Sure, it made for a nice tear jerker, but then we got those two just sitting around doing nothing interesting for the present. And we're shown way too many characters that we're supposed to hype over. I somehow doubt even half of those New World captains will ever have an actual role. Though I pray to death Whitey bay comes back. That's one girl I can hype all day erry day. But in all seriousness, I don't care anymore for having a million character designs thrown at us. First we got a bunch of cool but then-unimportant Supernovas. And a then we saw a ton of New World pirates. And Whitebeard's crew itself. That was like what, 14 or so commanders or whatever? Then we get Big Mom's crew, and Doflamingo's crew, all of which are getting hype. It's neat at first, but it just feels like a "throw it in" thing to keep us interested. Which is actually smart thinking on Oda's part. PH was getting very dry, but Doflamingo's crew being shown was neat. Also, don't care for throw-away characters like the Cool Brothers. Say what you like, they were pretty much pointless.

      Fighting is boring now. The Straw Hats win. Never a real challenge outside of Caesar these days. They just owned on Fishman Island. Yeah, it was to show off how strong they are, but really, maybe they got too strong. There's also like no personal conflicts with the crew members right now, so having dull fights doesn't distract from that. Then we get them owning in the New World. C'mon. Tired of this. Usopp was doing ass-pulls for a while there. It wasn't always like that. The non-combat challenges are near non-existent too. None of the Straw Hats looked to be in any real danger in Punk Hazard. They used to actually be put in danger - Usopp getting his ass handed to him by the Franky Family, Robin being in the hands of CP9, Nami getting sick after leaving Little Garden. There's just no real danger aspect anymore. And no, Sanji's nosebleed doesn't count.

      Also, Haki. This was the worst thing to be introduced to One Piece for me. We go like 10ish years into the manga and then suddenly half the characters have it. It was more fun watching everyone rely on raw power and abilities rather than use physics-defying reflexes and the power to make people foam at your awesomeness. It should be way more limited so that it's less h4x and less common. It's too cheap and makes for even more boring fights.

      Finally, this one is more aimed at the fandom. The people who make actual cases out of characters in new crewmate speculations. There is so much grasping at straws when the straw dispenser is very much empty. You know what? No. It was not a given that Jinbe would join. And until he is on that ship singing cutesy image songs after running on the beach with the Straw Hats, it's still not a given. Though yeah, that'll prolly happen. At least he loosened up. But I'm also talking about dumb theories like Monet, Momonosuke, Kinemon, etc. These characters make zero sense. Monet was shown to be on the side of evil pretty early on, and the astronomer theory is too much. The Wano guys make zero sense period. Not complaining about stuff like Three-Eyed girl speculation, cause that's obviously in good fun. But the actual serious speculation is abhorrent.


      With all that said, and holy shit my hand is cramping, I'm just analyzing One Piece more openly and am trying to encourage people do stop acting like there's no flaws. The storytelling peaked at Enies Lobby as far as I'm concerned. I'm not saying the story is completely awful or anything, it still interests me greatly and I have no plans to quit reading anytime soon since there's plenty of aspects I do love and consider to be good. But you gotta take the bad with the good, and you gotta be willing to talk about the bad. I don't care if it's a fan forum. Even gamers and TV-show viewers can admit when their favorite series are going through trashy periods. A manga that's gonna last a total of over 20 years isn't gonna avoid a mediocre period, and it hit that mediocre period.

      So feel free to discuss anything I said. Add to it, tweak it to fit your opinion better. I prolly missed some stuff or mighta been harsh on something I meant to be lighter on. Or give your opinion how you think things are being handled nowadays, or just your opinion on how I see this stuff.

      inb4 I get lynched, locked, banned, and sent away from my computer

      Steam | Battle.net: FelRes#1963

      \(゜∀゜ ) TSUKAME PURAIDO !

      \( `ー´)TSUKAME SUCCESS !

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      • RomanceDawn
        RomanceDawn
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        I disagree. 16 characters. :ninja:

        Seriously though I just read it. I do actually disagree on every point probably because from the very beginning everything has been very consistent with how it started.

        The only thing I really want to touch on is Luffy and character development. You say he doesn't change much, and no he really hasn't. He has gone through periods where his character is challenged by certain situations and has ultimately remained the same but I think that is absolutely fine.

        When I look at Homer Simpson and Sponebob Square Pants I see characters who are not who they used to be. There was a time when these 2 characters appeared very genuine in their stupidity and naivety. And though their respective shows don't lend themselves to character growth like a drama, they are essentially shells of their former selves. They aren't written as if the character themselves were saying and doing these things, they are now written as if someone said, "how can we make them funny?"

        One Piece has not fallen into this pit of misery because the characters are still who they originally were. That kind of thing goes a long way as far as the longevity of a series is concerned and is just one of many aspects as to why One Piece is so popular today.

        So in closing… Oda can do no wrong! This story when completed will become the book of life!

        Folks who read One Piece… Just better people. ¯\(ツ)/¯

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        • Demonicpoodle
          Demonicpoodle
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          I was typing up paragraphs upon paragraphs on this when I realized… I just don't care.

          There's going to be people who like OP and don't like OP and each of them is totally entitled to their opinion, no less wrong or right than the other.

          Your post was decently articulated enough so I see no reason to rail against it. But are those quotes seriously supposed to be convincing? lol. I could find them in a youtube comments section in 5 seconds flat.

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          • Sorikai33
            Sorikai33
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            Sorikai33
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            munches on cookie

            Steam Profile: Sorikai33 | 3DS Friend Code: 2981 6418 0894

            ^Feel free to add me on either^

            Sig art by Stjepan Sejic

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            • Halfmetal-lich
              Halfmetal-lich @Sorikai33
              @Sorikai33 last edited by
              Halfmetal-lich
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              My biggest critique of One Piece is how Oda tends to drag his arcs around the middle. He's amazing for his starts and finishes, but his middles for long arcs like Thriller Bark and Fishmen Island (The only disappointing arc due to the complete over-hyping of it) are too long and sometimes quite boring.

              Originally Posted by KzTxL7

              I wasn't distracted by Lucy being half naked.

              You won this week Fairy Tail.

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              • Ukimix
                Ukimix
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                Ukimix
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                Ukimix
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                I have a serious problem with One piece: will I be alive when last chapter be out? The rest is perfect 😉

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                • Drake
                  Drake
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                  Its been like….five days since the time skip. Give more of a chance. It should be known by now that One Piece is kind of slow-paced.
                  Stuff will get way better. Just think about all of the material Oda has to use still.

                  Elbaf
                  Kaido
                  Big Mom
                  Blackbeard
                  Blackbeards Crew
                  Shanks
                  Mihawk
                  Doflamingo
                  Supernovas
                  Poneglyphs
                  Revolutionaries
                  Dragon
                  Post timeskip Garp, Sengoku, and Aokiji.
                  Rogers complete past.

                  and I'm sure there's a ton more. I just listed all those super quickly off the top of my head, sorry if they suck.

                  EDIT:
                  Also! I agree that it can definitely be critiqued, I just think that we should slow down with making conclusions about how much post-timeskip sucks until things start to take off completely.
                  And sorry if I didn't read your post well enough, I skimmed over it since I'm about to go to bed, i'll re-read it tomorrow 😄

                  Reading : Homunculus, Blade of the Immortal

                  Watching : Serial Experiments Lain, Texhnolyze

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                  • blue-san
                    blue-san
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                    blue-san
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                    I read and thought it was going well but than the rant was imo a bit general.
                    Don't get me wrong, I am probably one of the rare on this forum who does agree on some points, but that's it some…

                    For me the biggest problem with OP has been that no character dies. It may seem like a morbid wish or a childish. What is the point? Why do they need to die? Well thing is, that while you read the story you grow into characters, you love them, you hate them, that's what it is all about. And you fear for them...
                    Yes, you don't want to lose some and you want to get rid of others and since this is no romantic picnic manga, there are supposed dangers and whatnot...
                    However. How can you fear for a character when it is obvious, no one ever dies...and suddenly you find yourself not caring. There is supposed to be an epic fight, Chopper or someone else is on the verge of death and you are like...he is going to be alright, no worries...it's all that people dislike of typical hollywood stuff. Happy endings and roses, main characters always save the day all best good guys live and so on...
                    Sure to some point you take it...it's shounen...but the extent that OP went to was imo too far.
                    So the war saga gave us that...a little bit of that..not that much, because of WB, but because of Ace's death and I was actually glad even though I liked Ace's character.

                    So that is better now...still not great but better.

                    So if I move on, yes, I dislike how some characters are not progressing and there seems to be little to no development. I agree with you completely on the fact that Sanji's thing is overdone. It's like a joke, it's funny once, twice, perhaps three times, but if you overdo it, it gets dull...
                    We have seen some people complaining about Luffy's idiocy about not taking care of things more, not taking some things more serious and so on. While some may defend that, that is just in his character, others may object, that there are some things as personality...
                    However one must react to the happenings and change himself. I bet many have believed that in some ways Luffy has changed since the death of Ace and losing his crew...He even sends them on training for two years. So yes...when some things happen anyway, after all of that, you don't just say: ˝"it's in his character..." no when he himself negates it.
                    I won't lose my crew anymore, will get stronger blah blah...
                    Than he does some really stupid stuff which could have cost him his crew tenfold. Yes audience, or at least some of it, DEMANDS to see development and not just a physical one but a mental jump as also some maturity. It's not like they want him to become some Gandalff or Budha

                    If I move on...personally what bothers me is the structure of arcs. It seems it is too repeatative and follows the same structure. Which seems too artificial and unnatural.
                    Let me give you an example. They arrive at the island and there they meet someone in distress. Always someone in some deep shit Luffy and SH will now save...and always that deep shit involves some bad guy who is never working alone. Always there is a crew and always people will start to speculate...who will fight who...
                    Surely there must be a swordsman. WHY? Well because we have Zoro. So what if we have him....?what the hell... ? Be inventive have 3 villains and that is it without subordinates and let SHs gang on them and win that way. Dont you just love, when you read that BB has idk 10 members and therefor Luffy needs one more, because it has to be 1 on 1 fights...
                    Also so what if Luffy and company batter their way through some island and at others they strugle. Make it diverse.
                    It's like... do you even wonder what will happen when Luffy head jumps towards Caezar...? Does someone actually thinks he will wack him and they will be done swiftly...no we all know he will get trashed before...he will probably fight Caesar 3 times just like he had to fight Crocodile and Rob Lucci and Moria...chasing them after losing...
                    Those are the things that bother me...

                    Don't get me wrong, I still love OP, to me it's the most beautiful story and it is far beyond this simple trival things...it tells you much in between, teaches you stuff as well, if you are open minded about it.
                    But I admit, if there is one thing I could change, it would have been the diversity and unpredictability and randomness of events. I am not talking characters and how they respond...they are each unique and should follow a certain pattern...but like in life things are constantly different...you can't just run into trouble on every god damn island...in fact no...someone else is in trouble and you get to save them every single island...and so on and on...
                    Those things could have been mixed up and changed to be less predictible

                    In the end we wont be reading the story for what will happen, but for how it will happen so that it will come to the result we all know it will

                    sorry for the typos it is really late here

                    人事を尽くして天命を待つ

                    Link to my AMVs

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                    • Drake
                      Drake @blue-san
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                      @blue-san:

                      I read and thought it was going well but than the rant was imo a bit general.
                      Don't get me wrong, I am probably one of the rare on this forum who does agree on some points, but that's it some…

                      For me the biggest problem with OP has been that no character dies. It may seem like a morbid wish or a childish. What is the point? Why do they need to die? Well thing is, that while you read the story you grow into characters, you love them, you hate them, that's what it is all about. And you fear for them...
                      Yes, you don't want to lose some and you want to get rid of others and since this is no romantic picnic manga, there are supposed dangers and whatnot...
                      However. How can you fear for a character when it is obvious, no one ever dies...and suddenly you find yourself not caring. There is supposed to be an epic fight, Chopper or someone else is on the verge of death and you are like...he is going to be alright, no worries...it's all that people dislike of typical hollywood stuff. Happy endings and roses, main characters always save the day all best good guys live and so on...
                      Sure to some point you take it...it's shounen...but the extent that OP went to was imo too far.
                      So the war saga gave us that...a little bit of that..not that much, because of WB, but because of Ace's death and I was actually glad even though I liked Ace's character.

                      Do you think that Ace and Whitebeards death (along with the time skip), made the possibility of death more of a reality?

                      Reading : Homunculus, Blade of the Immortal

                      Watching : Serial Experiments Lain, Texhnolyze

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                      • TheCrystalShip
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                        Wow, I found myself agreeing on all points. Especially the paragraphs on Sanji and Haki.

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                        • Aaronrules380
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                          While I get some of your points, I really disagree with you on a lot. Strawhats haven't been in danger… which is clearly how Luffy lost to Ceasar and Sanji broke his leg fighting Vergo. Yeah, they've been owning a lot of the characters on Punk Hazard, but NONE of the important ones. You don't seem to understand that most of Punk Hazard's residents were already the failures of the new world. Not to mention in terms of non combat that smiley gas would've killed Luffy and those with them if Law hadn't sided with him. And the purpose of fishmen island was to show how much they've grown. And while a few of the chapters recently have been slow, I wouldn't say its been that consistent. And to say the supernova are irrelevant is stupid. THey aren't relevant yet, but they clearly will be. Yeah we're getting a lot of characters thrown out now, but I highly doubt this huge stream will continue, and I actually appreciate that Oda is setting up major players in advance rather.
                          Finally, Haki was an inevitability and isn't the game breaker you make it out to be. Logia's were honestly way too powerful before this. Furthermore, not every haki user uses all the types. Saying half the cast are now haki users is ridiculous. Haki users are primarily the top men of the best crews the way I see it. CoO has also been proven not to be invincible.
                          I also like the nostalgia goggles you're wearing. There have ALWAYS been throw away characters in One Piece. Most of the baroque works agents were one note and disposable, and even the ones who got fights were pretty bland outside of Mr 2 and Mr 3. Kuroobi and CHew were also pretty boring characters, and Hatchan would be as well if not for the focus he got later. Yeah there were a lot of whitebeard commanders, because Oda wanted to show the scale and power of whitebeard's crew. But honestly, every character doesn't need to be fleshed out.
                          And you're point about a specific board isn't valid if you don't even tell us what that board is. A lot of board's attract different types of people, so unless you've visited many boards and asked for opinions, you can't know which ones are naturally biased against One Piece. Also the fact that you didn't link it makes it impossible for us to know whether or not the posts you showed are actually representitive of the sentiment on even that forum since its pretty easy to handpick posts that will make it seem like you have a point

                          ALl that said, Oda does have legitimate flaws. Oda can be a bit too stubborn on not killing characters at times. His treatment of women, while better than many other shonen, still leaves much to be desired. Sanji can be annoying at times as well. Oda's pacing often goes from very fast to somewhat slow, which can be kind of jarring. Oda does occasionally under utilize characters like Madame Shirley and Vanderdecken. Some of the power's Oda has made recently seem a bit too strong and haven't really been explained well, such as Laws, although this might still change.

                          FelRes 1 Reply Last reply Reply Quote 0
                          • H
                            Hattori
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                            Goddamn you wrote a lot. I'll reply to some of the more notable things I picked up on.

                            @FelRes:

                            One thing that most notably is off since the timeskip is the pacing of the story. I think everyone agrees that Fishman Island was weird about that, and it seems like everyone has their own opinion on pretty much every section of that arc. At that, not enough people are realizing that Punk Hazard is no better in this regard.

                            I agree with this, but my reasoning is opposite of yours. It feels like Oda has been rushing through things lately. Not really in terms of chapter count or whatever you want to measure it by, but in terms of buildup. With both Fishman Island and Punk Hazard it feels like Oda quickly introduced the setting just to throw us into the climax with little to no lead-in. The last two islands kinda felt like they were introduced just to be backdrops to the fights, which is not what I read One Piece for.

                            Character development is nearly non-existent now. Luffy is a Mary Sue. That's it. He's some goody guy who can barely be scratched, pulls out random moves, never has a real challenge, pretty much everyone in-story likes him, and he always wins. I don't like this. He has no real flaws that aren't just there for cheap laughs.

                            What? Did you completely forget everything leading up to the timeskip? The entire focus of Sabaody through Marineford was showing just how much Luffy still had to improve. He was getting wrecked left and right. He's going to be a little overpowered for the beginning of the New World, sure, because otherwise the timeskip would seem utterly pointless. This is basically the equivalent of East Blue where Luffy destroyed his opponents easily, leading up to a curbstomp by Crocodile. A mere warm up for the tough enemies yet to come.

                            There's an over-abundance of characters. First we got a bunch of cool but then-unimportant Supernovas. And a then we saw a ton of New World pirates. And Whitebeard's crew itself. That was like what, 14 or so commanders or whatever? Then we get Big Mom's crew, and Doflamingo's crew, all of which are getting hype. It's neat at first, but it just feels like a "throw it in" thing to keep us interested.

                            Uh, these characters will obviously become relevant later on? I don't even know what you're expecting here.

                            The people who make actual cases out of characters in new crewmate speculations. There is so much grasping at straws when the straw dispenser is very much empty. You know what? No. It was not a given that Jinbe would join. But I'm also talking about dumb theories like Monet, Momonosuke, Kinemon, etc. These characters make zero sense

                            I don't personally believe that the crew will be getting any new members AT ALL other than Jinbei, so I agree. Any other character that could possibly join now would be missing out on the whole timeskip deal, which is just too big of a factor in terms of crew dynamics and character development. Any new crewmember wouldn't have been there to experience pretty much the most important event in shaping the crew.

                            Legend of the Strongest Onani Master Kurosawa

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                              I agree with you more or less (especially Sanji, holy shit, Sanji). I do think only time will tell on the haki and character excitement front though, Oda's simply not telling us much or giving anything away.

                              Originally Posted by CCC

                              Man, woman, who cares!? Sure, they love show tunes, but who doesn't?

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                              • TheCrystalShip
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                                We have seen that Oda can write character development back at Water Seven, so it's not impossible.

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                                • King Cannon
                                  King Cannon @Hattori
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                                  @Hattori:

                                  What? Did you completely forget everything leading up to the timeskip? The entire focus of Sabaody through Marineford was showing just how much Luffy still had to improve. He was getting wrecked left and right. He's going to be a little overpowered for the beginning of the New World, sure, because otherwise the timeskip would seem utterly pointless. This is basically the equivalent of East Blue where Luffy destroyed his opponents easily, leading up to a curbstomp by Crocodile. A mere warm up for the tough enemies yet to come.

                                  I'm pretty sure FelRes was talking about post-timeskip Luffy here. Luffy did improve in terms of strength during the 2 years, but his character didn't.

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                                    Disagree with almost all things in your post, but this is a criticism thread, so here goes.

                                    I don't like the draggy arc middles(which has already been mentioned here), I think Thriller Bark, Skypiea and Fishman Island are the best examples here. Of course there needs to be a transition point from introduction to action, but it tends to really drag, there's usually stuff going on with small neat moments, but it's not directly advancing the plot, PH is sort of having this problem, too, right now, but it really isn't as bad as the above examples(Shi-no-Kuni could've been resolved faster), for example.

                                    Avoiding death in an annoying and illogical manner. Pell surviving(which also sort of contradicted Luffy's statement earlier in the arc and thus part of the theme), then there's everyone surviving Enel's lightning, I also found the limit for the usage of the Impact dial annoying, why introduce the limit/rule in the first place if it in the long run doesn't matter.
                                    Bon-chan surviving was annoying, but it made sense thanks to BB being there, the thing with the shipwrights surviving actually made sense as well because of Paulie. I guess, I just don't like emotional manipulation like that. I do hope the G5 people stay dead because them surviving would make no sense. Don't care most of the fodder because they are minor enough, like Coribou.

                                    The stereotypical girl fights with fanservice. Yeah, just gonna say Nami vs. Kalifa here, vs. Doublefinger wasn't as bad, luckily, but still had some of that. I mean it's nice that the girls actually get to do stuff unlike in many shonen series, but Nami vs. Kalifa is the worst way to make it happen, even if I think it had a few cool moments regardless of the fanservice. Interestingly, all of Robin's brief fights have been against guys, though. Pell, Yama, Hammond, same for Hancock(Momonga, Smoker and a pacifista, which is technically a robot) so this is a minor thing, I guess.

                                    Some of the power-ups. Particularly Zoro's and Sanji's at Enies Lobby and Zoro's in general. At EL Nami's made sense because she got the dials. Chopper's made sense because he had never used more than two till that point on-screen and Luffy's are only unique to himself and explained, even if they still seem out of nowhere.
                                    But Zoro's at Alabasta and Skypiea sort of just happened, sure, he trains all the time and he even points out that the crew gets stronger as they fight, but I think the Power-ups for him still feel mostly out of nowhere. Still better than boring training arcs, I guess and another good thing is that the power-ups are used the most they can, the Strawhats didn't get another upgrade till the timeskip. Post-Marineford did it the best it could, though. Showing a little bit of training, but not just skipping it.

                                    The handling of themes of some of the arcs can be a little wonky at times. The whole thing at Alabasta with Pell which has surely been mentioned hundreds of times already. Then, the whole thing with Bellamy because thing rationally about reaching your dream/goal is a bad thing, right? He was an asshole and that fight had another point to make about fighting and not fighting, but he kind of had a point, too, hell Marineford even proves that. Then is the whole thing at Fishman Island and racism. It was really in-your-face and got obnoxious eventually. I particularly dislike the fact that Shirahoshi knew about her mom's death, but didn't tell anyone. You are supposed to sympathize with her because she did because of her mother's wish, but it comes across as really stupid. If she had talked this whole situation going on would not even have happened. The situation at Skypiea was solved a little too happily as well, I think. 400-year wars don't end just like that. I mean all of these situations are solved in an idealistic and naive manner and it IS a kids manga, so I guess it's just me being really cynical and critical with this point.

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                                    • MasterKingJC
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                                      I could refute a lot those points (even though I agree with some), but it's late and I'm tired.
                                      Let's see where this thread goes. /grabs popcorn

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                                      • Crossword
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                                        I can summarize most of my current gripes with the series by saying that it feels like Oda's stuck in Marineford mode. Every chapter's gotta end on a cliffhanger, everything needs to be bigger, flashier, and more destructive, there needs to be a million things going on at once all day every day. I miss when things were more leisurely and less hectic, like during Skypiea and Water 7. I miss when transition scenes weren't shoved off screen making everything feel muddled. I miss when fights actually had choreography to them (though Punk Hazard's been much better in this regard than Fishman Island was). I miss the times when attacks didn't have to be so ridiculously over the top, with a few exceptions, and that battles weren't halfway reliant on whose set of invisible magic armor was better. I miss the times when the interaction felt richer and not just a strema of character gags (it's a problem that all series eventually face, but some handle it more gracefully than others).

                                        Just had to get that off of my chest. Oda's still doing an good job overall and his story is still entertaining, but I still can't help but sometimes yearn for a simpler time.

                                        ~Stargazer~, ~Distance~ original stories.

                                        3DS Friend Code: 2234-8294-8917

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                                          it was a good read bro, there are things i agreed and things i disagreed. i'll just share some of my opinions.

                                          i agree with what you said about sanji and haki…it was overplayed (sanji's nosebleed ) and haki became too common, felt like logias dont even had any advantage in new world when it was really feared in the first part of the series.

                                          i liked the fishman arc to be honest, what i didnt like is the fight there, yeah, youre kinda right, strawhats were shown to be super strong and hody's crew were used for comical purposes...so i guess it made the audience think that strawhat will just steamroll anyone. im still fine with strawhats with getting in troubles after timeskip coz it was their identity, maybe i just didnt like the way fights have gone there...the fights in punk hazard is fine with me.

                                          im kinda wanting more about the power-ups, but maybe there's something in store...so i guess ill wait for that, its just the second arc. im fine with the pacing, the manga is detailed and yes, there are lots of characters being introduced because its the start of a new world, meaning, im considering it like when luffy is starting to set sail, lots of characters had been introduced too and by the time the crew reached shabaondy, almost all of the questions was answered. so im fine with character introductions since i know it would be all answered in due time.

                                          the size if the crew is fine with me too, and i dont mind if oda would add more crewmembers, coz its a pirate crew...it would be much more unbelievable that a crew of 5 or 7 will end the WG imo. yeah, that would take too much pacing, but like i said im enjoying it.

                                          the avoided deaths are bad...it could have made the story more emotional if its not trolled...especially pell's death.

                                          i just hope that you really dont get annoyed by people theorizing about whatnots...this is a discussion forum and its the reason why im posting here...

                                          if i could add another thing i hate about one piece now is the anime art and animation....it feels like theyre not putting much effort on it anymore and the animation in battle at gyoncorde plaza is disappointing....like sanji doing geppou but it havent looked like geppou when it was cp9 doing it....the blue walk is much more convincing...

                                          hell memories animation was cut short and the animators never did it justice...as well the impact wolf...

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                                            I'm going to reiterate a few of the forum rules that have been posted for 7 and a half years now. If this thread can't abide by them, then it will not last.

                                            NO CHARACTER BASHING
                                            it doesn't matter how dull or how badly drawn or how boring or how much you get irritated by the character. no character deserves to be bashed. start your own FORUM if you have so much negative energy to radiate; here, such is not allowed. you can CRITICIZE in a constructive way, but anything along the lines of "OMG SO AND SO SUXA$$!!!!111!!" will be considered bashing, and action will be taken.

                                            NO BASHING OTHER MEMBERS
                                            even in other languages. anyone who gets bashed on PMs can report such a thing to any admins or mods, and we'll make sure the basher gets sent to hell. and yes, that also means no creating new topics to bash members.

                                            I especially don't want to see blanket statements that insult the entire community here, not that insulting individual members is better. Fair criticism of how Sanji's character has been handled is fine, but some of the stuff is really pushing the limits of acceptability.

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                                            • Miss White day
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                                              I got to say I'm probably the only one who doesn't mind post timeskip Sanji at all. Not after watching the anime version of Fishman island. They were milking the nosebleed drama for all it was worth. I don't think I've ever laughed so much about nosebleeding ever in my manga reading laugh. XD

                                              Haki was always there. It just wasn't named before.

                                              As much as I love him Luffy is really a selfish jerk sometimes. I'm pretty sure what happened in Impel Down is going to cause a few villages to be attacked by "bad criminals" in the future. Also he did adopt Vivi's "bow to ask something" policy she taught him in Drum, so that's a good point for him.

                                              Fans make the fandom. What is your fandom made of?

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                                                Kizuchan @Crossword
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                                                @Crossword:

                                                I can summarize most of my current gripes with the series by saying that it feels like Oda's stuck in Marineford mode. Every chapter's gotta end on a cliffhanger, everything needs to be bigger, flashier, and more destructive, there needs to be a million things going on at once all day every day. I miss when things were more leisurely and less hectic, like during Skypiea and Water 7. I miss when transition scenes weren't shoved off screen making everything feel muddled. I miss when fights actually had choreography to them (though Punk Hazard's been much better in this regard than Fishman Island was). I miss the times when attacks didn't have to be so ridiculously over the top, with a few exceptions, and that battles weren't halfway reliant on whose set of invisible magic armor was better. I miss the times when the interaction felt richer and not just a strema of character gags (it's a problem that all series eventually face, but some handle it more gracefully than others).

                                                Just had to get that off of my chest. Oda's still doing an good job overall and his story is still entertaining, but I still can't help but sometimes yearn for a simpler time.

                                                I can really see what you mean. The start of the PH actually felt kind of that "old feeling" to me. The crew just landing on an island and having wacky adventures, same for the post-FI stuff and the transition chapters between PH and FI, but it can be really frantic as of late. Funny thing is, when it isn't frantic and actually seems to start taking stuff easier people just start complaining that it's too slow. I feel like this is what older readers mean when new readers complain about the story being slow. One Piece wasn't always like it is right now. It was a lot more casual.

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                                                • Miss White day
                                                  Miss White day @beck26
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                                                  @beck26:

                                                  it was a good read bro, there are things i agreed and things i disagreed. i'll just share some of my opinions.

                                                  i agree with what you said about sanji and haki…it was overplayed (sanji's nosebleed ) and haki became too common, felt like logias dont even had any advantage in new world when it was really feared in the first part of the series.

                                                  But that's the problem. We know nothing about the new world. Who were we to assume Logia's are really "all that". New world, new rules I guess.

                                                  I can accept haki because it's been around for even before Skipea so it wasn't like it was something new. And it does curb the unfairness of having a logia fruit and be all immune to hits and stuff.

                                                  What I do find annoying is how fans are really eager to use it as a universal scapegoat or something. Like classic power level. Heck I remember someone saying Shiraoshi's sea king calling power was Haki. I'm pretty sure half the things we think are Haki aren't really.

                                                  Fans make the fandom. What is your fandom made of?

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                                                    Eh disagree on the Strawhats winning. They've been getting their asses handed to them by Vergo and Vegapunk so far. Vegapunk took out half the straw hats + luffy by himself, Vergo is basically just tanking everyone at this point. Haki was introduced way early in the manga, still only a couple of characters have been showing using it, far from half of them. Sanji has always been a perv, being on an island with nothing but guys would probably make someone annoying even more pervy. The pacing is slow sure, but at least the story is still interesting, and it does seem like Oda actually has a story planned instead of just making stuff up. As far as character development goes, yes its a little one dimensional and simple but at least its consistent.

                                                    http://zxcv11791.deviantart.com/

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                                                      beck26 @Miss White day
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                                                      @Miss:

                                                      But that's the problem. We know nothing about the new world. Who were we to assume Logia's are really "all that". New world, new rules I guess.

                                                      I can accept haki because it's been around for even before Skipea so it wasn't like it was something new. And it does curb the unfairness of having a logia fruit and be all immune to hits and stuff.

                                                      What I do find annoying is how fans are really eager to use it as a universal scapegoat or something. Like classic power level. Heck I remember someone saying Shiraoshi's sea king calling power was Haki. I'm pretty sure half the things we think are Haki aren't really.

                                                      i agree, im not complaining about haki, its just that i felt it took the strength of logias in some sense….and i agree thats its annoying that everyone is blaming haki for everything.

                                                      like, some peeps thinking that luffy having observation haki means he can predict everything...and he would not get caught by surprise anymore but they got to realize that haki got levels and maybe luffy's observation haki is not that developed.

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                                                      @zxcv11791:

                                                      Eh disagree on the Strawhats winning. They've been getting their asses handed to them by Vergo and Vegapunk so far. Vegapunk took out half the straw hats + luffy by himself, Vergo is basically just tanking everyone at this point. Haki was introduced way early in the manga, still only a couple of characters have been showing using it, far from half of them. Sanji has always been a perv, being on an island with nothing but guys would probably make someone annoying even more pervy. The pacing is slow sure, but at least the story is still interesting, and it does seem like Oda actually has a story planned instead of just making stuff up. As far as character development goes, yes its a little one dimensional and simple but at least its consistent.

                                                      well, maybe fans viewed sanji as a chivalrous guy, but its obvious he was a perv deep inside LOL…but the nosebleed scene had been overplayed, its funny at first (when sanji bursted out of the bubble underwater) but i thought it got corny when it was his nosebleed's fault that they were discovered by fukaboshi...and even became a drama angle when sanji almost died from it...

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                                                      • Renegadesoul
                                                        Renegadesoul @zxcv11791
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                                                        @zxcv11791:

                                                        Eh disagree on the Strawhats winning. They've been getting their asses handed to them by Vergo and Vegapunk so far. Vegapunk took out half the straw hats + luffy by himself, Vergo is basically just tanking everyone at this point. Haki was introduced way early in the manga, still only a couple of characters have been showing using it, far from half of them. Sanji has always been a perv, being on an island with nothing but guys would probably make someone annoying even more pervy. The pacing is slow sure, but at least the story is still interesting, and it does seem like Oda actually has a story planned instead of just making stuff up. As far as character development goes, yes its a little one dimensional and simple but at least its consistent.

                                                        Wait…Vegapunk?...You're referring to Ceasar Clown right? right?

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                                                        • Miss White day
                                                          Miss White day @beck26
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                                                          @beck26:

                                                          i agree, im not complaining about haki, its just that i felt it took the strength of logias in some sense….and i agree thats its annoying that everyone is blaming haki for everything.

                                                          like, some peeps thinking that luffy having observation haki means he can predict everything…and he would not get caught by surprise anymore but they got to realize that haki got levels and maybe luffy's observation haki is not that developed.

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                                                          Oh and I really hope to see Vegapunk one day. I hope he becomes a fan of Franky's body. :happy:
                                                          well, maybe fans viewed sanji as a chivalrous guy, but its obvious he was a perv deep inside LOL…but the nosebleed scene had been overplayed, its funny at first (when sanji bursted out of the bubble underwater) but i thought it got corny when it was his nosebleed's fault that they were discovered by fukaboshi...and even became a drama angle when sanji almost died from it...

                                                          Oh god yes! We are so much on the same wavelenght. Though I don't think it's a question of level. I just really hope it's not that much of a "convenient" thing. I mean even mantra had its flaws. I seem to remember Eneru not being able to count people who were swallowed by a snake. Or was Eneru's power something else than mantra?

                                                          Anyhow, I really don't see how people saw Sanji as chivalrous. Sure he seemed like it on the outside but he really was an idiot deep down. Nothing admirable, really. Anyways, I guess the nosebleed joke crossed the line twice for me. It was funny. Unfunny. And the over the top drama about it made it funny again.

                                                          Fans make the fandom. What is your fandom made of?

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                                                            My seemingly gripe about the late Fishman Island arc is only it being short, if only he didn't rush the whole arc and maybe add 20 more chapters then the whole pacing and not enough character development problems for the characters will be resolved. Looking at the underdeveloped brother princes, Shirley, Den and the NFP. Heck even the mermaid cafe and fishman dojo are not shown, and should have been shown for world building.

                                                            And hey Felres, you should not really call the Sanji defence in this forum blind, because i am pretty sure we try to bring up many many legit points defending the said character. At day 1, Sanji's gag is being a pervert remember this? http://www.mangahere.com/manga/one_piece/v18/c158/14.html The whole gang even accept Sanji's gags, some of them even laugh and not even one of them legitly hates him. You could hate on the said character, but that should not be true for everyone.

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                                                              beck26 @Miss White day
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                                                              @Miss:

                                                              Oh god yes! We are so much on the same wavelenght. Though I don't think it's a question of level. I just really hope it's not that much of a "convenient" thing. I mean even mantra had its flaws. I seem to remember Eneru not being able to count people who were swallowed by a snake. Or was Eneru's power something else than mantra?

                                                              Anyhow, I really don't see how people saw Sanji as chivalrous. Sure he seemed like it on the outside but he really was an idiot deep down. Nothing admirable, really. Anyways, I guess the nosebleed joke crossed the line twice for me. It was funny. Unfunny. And the over the top drama about it made it funny again.

                                                              haha yeah, thats what i mean, haki became too convenient post time skip that it felt to me that logia became common as well. i had hoped haki, the first two types to be almost as rare as the king's haki to make it special in a sense like king's haki….enel's mantra is observation haki and he got a level of it like aisa and coby (maybe that's what people think luffy has)

                                                              sanji got a code of never hitting women, thats it...he likes women so he protects them, but in every sense he is a complete perv...just the line "i was destined to love all ladies" is a giveaway...LOL...maybe 20% chivalrous and 80% perv....the fight with absalom is funny to me because in that fight he snapped and finally revealed that he is really a perv hahahaha

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                                                              @The:

                                                              My seemingly gripe about the late Fishman Island arc is only it being short, if only he didn't rush the whole arc and maybe add 20 more chapters then the whole pacing and not enough character development problems for the characters will be resolved. Looking at the underdeveloped brother princes, Shirley, Den and the NFP. Heck even the mermaid cafe and fishman dojo are not shown, and should have been shown for world building.

                                                              And hey Felres, you should not really call the Sanji defence in this forum blind, because i am pretty sure we try to bring up many many legit points defending the said character. At day 1, Sanji's gag is being a pervert remember this? http://www.mangahere.com/manga/one_piece/v18/c158/14.html The whole gang even accept Sanji's gags, some of them even laugh and not even one of them legitly hates him. You could hate on the said character, but that should not be true for everyone.

                                                              yeah, the plot of the fishman island is really good (racism and history and pointless grudge) but its kinda rushed…i was wondering with sharley, the fishman dojo and the boshi brothers as well....

                                                              even hody's crew are treated as comic reliefs...i was expecting a good fight at least, a fight that would affirm strawhats' new strength but would NOT make them appear like they can go straight to raftel and beat everyone....hody's crew had great designs and their powers had potential dangerous skills, but they were not given importance...

                                                              also the fights, its a refreshing view to see luffy fighting underwater i hope we had seen more action that what happened...that goes for the rest of the crew....especially hyozou and zoro, i was so hyped for it...and sanji's enemy is disappointing to be honest...

                                                              ****but one warning for complaining about luffy getting in trouble and thinking strawhats changed overall: luffy will always be simple minded, ussop will always be hysterical...that's just how they are...they became stronger but its still their attitudes..the only attitude that changed to luffy is he wanted to be stronger because he doesnt anyone to die again...that's how simple minded he is.

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                                                              • TheCrystalShip
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                                                                Doesn't anybody remember when Logias had to be countered logically and intelligently? Water beats sand, rubber beats electricity, and so on. When Aokiji was introduced, I never thought that there would be some mystical power that would counter him in the future, I just assumed that his weakness was fire or heat. And the reason I didn't think of Haki is because it was a retcon, plain and simple. It's not even balanced, because now there are way more Haki users than Logia users, which makes the retcon all the more obvious.

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                                                                  beck26 @TheCrystalShip
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                                                                  @TheCrystalShip:

                                                                  Doesn't anybody remember when Logias had to be countered logically and intelligently? Water beats sand, rubber beats electricity, and so on. When Aokiji was introduced, I never thought that there would be some mystical power that would counter him in the future, I just assumed that his weakness was fire or heat. And the reason I didn't think of Haki is because it was a retcon, plain and simple. It's not even balanced, because now there are way more Haki users than Logia users, which makes the retcon all the more obvious.

                                                                  exactly what im saying. ^^^^ haki was fine when it became a power to level the field, but that power was given too much and now its common and takes away the power of logias…

                                                                  even mythical zoan and legendary zoans arent so scary anymore as well because everyone just revolved around haki...would be cool if only few people had it. as in like almost as rare as CoC.

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                                                                  • Miss White day
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                                                                    @TheCrystalShip:

                                                                    Doesn't anybody remember when Logias had to be countered logically and intelligently? Water beats sand, rubber beats electricity, and so on. When Aokiji was introduced, I never thought that there would be some mystical power that would counter him in the future, I just assumed that his weakness was fire or heat. And the reason I didn't think of Haki is because it was a retcon, plain and simple. It's not even balanced, because now there are way more Haki users than Logia users, which makes the retcon all the more obvious.

                                                                    There's not logic or intelligence in the rubber vs electricity department. Luffy won the lottery and was lucky enough to not be affected by Eneru's lightning. The water vs sand thing is a good example though, not that it did any good in the end since it was blood that was used. Really in a way Haki made things a bit more fair. Because how else would they beat light? A giant mirror? Or air for that matter? Be lucky enough to end up with a power that counters it?

                                                                    At least it does explain a bit why people like Kizaru or Ceasar Clown don't just go on a rampage and take over the world since they would be kinda untouchable.

                                                                    Fans make the fandom. What is your fandom made of?

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                                                                      zxcv11791 @beck26
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                                                                      Even with Haki its not like an instant win against logia types just because you can hit them now.

                                                                      @beck26:

                                                                      well, maybe fans viewed sanji as a chivalrous guy, but its obvious he was a perv deep inside LOL…but the nosebleed scene had been overplayed, its funny at first (when sanji bursted out of the bubble underwater) but i thought it got corny when it was his nosebleed's fault that they were discovered by fukaboshi...and even became a drama angle when sanji almost died from it...

                                                                      Yea there could of been a better way to bring up the whole fishman/human blood transfusion, the nosebleeding was played out too much during that time. I get why people might of expected more from Sanji, but he was always been a bit of an idiot.

                                                                      @Renegadesoul:

                                                                      Wait…Vegapunk?...You're referring to Ceasar Clown right? right?

                                                                      urg yea my bad, dunno why I got them mixed up o_0

                                                                      http://zxcv11791.deviantart.com/

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                                                                      • TheCrystalShip
                                                                        TheCrystalShip @Miss White day
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                                                                        @Miss:

                                                                        There's not logic or intelligence in the rubber vs electricity department. Luffy won the lottery and was lucky enough to not be affected by Eneru's lightning. The water vs sand thing is a good example though, not that it did any good in the end since it was blood that was used. Really in a way Haki made things a bit more fair. Because how else would they beat light? A giant mirror? Or air for that matter? Be lucky enough to end up with a power that counters it?

                                                                        At least it does explain a bit why people like Kizaru or Ceasar Clown don't just go on a rampage and take over the world since they would be kinda untouchable.

                                                                        The bigger problem is that, suddenly, everyone has it, and there's no real explanation as to why they have it.

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                                                                          beck26 @TheCrystalShip
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                                                                          @TheCrystalShip:

                                                                          The bigger problem is that, suddenly, everyone has it, and there's no real explanation as to why they have it.

                                                                          i had hoped the kairouseki is an "equalizer" enough but then came haki, well, im fine with haki but it became too common…its what im saying...i remember wiper wrapping enel with kairouseki at his feet and dealing him with a reject dial.

                                                                          thats the most badass way i saw someone normal defeat a logia...or rayleigh deflecting kizaru's kick to zoro....then after that haki became too common. i cant understand how to explain it...not every people has it, but it became like its always around the corner and suddenly logias dont got any advantage when they are supposed to be feared.

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                                                                          • Miss White day
                                                                            Miss White day @TheCrystalShip
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                                                                            @TheCrystalShip:

                                                                            The bigger problem is that, suddenly, everyone has it, and there's no real explanation as to why they have it.

                                                                            I see what you mean.

                                                                            Hrm, maybe it's a new world thing. Kinda like back in East Blue devil fruit was the shit. Then in the Grand Line one named guy out of two had a devil fruit but mantra was the shit. Now in New World middle tier have haki?

                                                                            Seems legit?

                                                                            Now that makes me wonder if we're going to see an island with Haki users (other than Amazon Lily). Then again the NW is supposed to be a dangerous place that makes first part GL look like paradise.

                                                                            Fans make the fandom. What is your fandom made of?

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                                                                              just see how many things can neutralize logia (devil fruits) haki, kairouseki, water and blackbeard's fruit…feels like logia became the underdog..LOL..jk

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                                                                              @Miss:

                                                                              I see what you mean.

                                                                              Hrm, maybe it's a new world thing. Kinda like back in East Blue devil fruit was the shit. Then in the Grand Line one named guy out of two had a devil fruit but mantra was the shit. Now in New World middle tier have haki?

                                                                              Seems legit?

                                                                              Now that makes me wonder if we're going to see an island with Haki users (other than Amazon Lily). Then again the NW is supposed to be a dangerous place that makes first part GL look like paradise.

                                                                              well, if we try to see it that way, then we could accept it when the story goes on…yeah, maybe the ultimate weapon is haki when it comes to the last part of the journey. its the last one introduced so what you said makes sense.

                                                                              if ill make a guess, then the entire wano-kuni (samurais and ninjas) all know haki.

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                                                                              • Miss White day
                                                                                Miss White day @beck26
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                                                                                @beck26:

                                                                                just see how many things can neutralize logia (devil fruits) haki, kairouseki, water and blackbeard's fruit…feels like logia became the underdog..LOL..jk

                                                                                Can't argue with that. XD

                                                                                At least now Zoans aren't the underdog anymore. Pff, Paramecia were always the best anyways. So much versatility. But this isn't the DF thread so I won't agrue about which DF class I find best.

                                                                                I appologize to the topic in advance.

                                                                                Fans make the fandom. What is your fandom made of?

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                                                                                • Don Quichotte De Flamingo
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                                                                                  I have to come back later to this to get more into the whole discussion (hope to have some time during the weekend,though)

                                                                                  Just saying already that some might get conform with themselves how they enjoy/appreciate the overall story afterall.
                                                                                  Getting week by week a single chapter might get someone slightly off track how to see the story as a whole.
                                                                                  It`s not without a reason why manga are presented in volumnes and should actually be read like this.
                                                                                  Weekly chapters who are slow paced or without a proper cliffhanger might seem kind of uninteresting, but seen in a volumne with chapters instantly following as appropiate.

                                                                                  So even when we all would be kind of helpless without our weekly dosis of OP, we should keep in mind that you should get to a former arc after all the volumnes are released..even when the arc seemed to be kind of boring while reading it week by week.

                                                                                  Just by this you can judge it properly(even when this doesn`t rule out that some stuff still sucks, no matter how you look at it 😉 )

                                                                                  Unrevealed_Loki/Rocks/Im-san_

                                                                                  IslandElbaf/Raftel/GodValley

                                                                                  UnresolvedWeevil´s plan/Explaining DFs/Deal with Kuma-Bonney´s past/Joy-Boy/Zunisha´s story/Rocks flashback/Void Century/Rioponeglyph/Uranus/the D.clan

                                                                                  DFWind/Metal/Acid/Liquid/Time-Stop

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                                                                                    beck26 @Don Quichotte De Flamingo
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                                                                                    @Don:

                                                                                    I have to come back later to this to get more into the whole discussion (hope to have some time during the weekend,though)

                                                                                    Just saying already that some might get conform with themselves how they enjoy/appreciate the overall story afterall.
                                                                                    Getting week by week a single chapter might get someone slightly off track how to see the story as a whole.
                                                                                    It`s not without a reason why manga are presented in volumnes and should actually be read like this.
                                                                                    Weekly chapters who are slow paced or without a proper cliffhanger might seem kind of uninteresting, but seen in a volumne with chapters instantly following as appropiate.

                                                                                    So even when we all would be kind of helpless without our weekly dosis of OP, we should keep in mind that you should get to a former arc after all the volumnes are released..even when the arc seemed to be kind of boring while reading it week by week.

                                                                                    Just by this you can judge it properly(even when this doesn`t rule out that some stuff still sucks, no matter how you look at it 😉 )

                                                                                    agreed. i reread all the chapters by volumes and the story is fantastic…the only blunder is fishman island...as i said, i understand the pacing and i appreciate it since the world and story oda creates is detailed. i like the pacing to be honest, nothing is rushed (except fishman arc)

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                                                                                    • Nidhoeggr
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                                                                                      @Crossword:

                                                                                      I can summarize most of my current gripes with the series by saying that it feels like Oda's stuck in Marineford mode. Every chapter's gotta end on a cliffhanger, everything needs to be bigger, flashier, and more destructive, there needs to be a million things going on at once all day every day. I miss when things were more leisurely and less hectic, like during Skypiea and Water 7. I miss when transition scenes weren't shoved off screen making everything feel muddled. I miss when fights actually had choreography to them (though Punk Hazard's been much better in this regard than Fishman Island was). I miss the times when attacks didn't have to be so ridiculously over the top, with a few exceptions, and that battles weren't halfway reliant on whose set of invisible magic armor was better. I miss the times when the interaction felt richer and not just a strema of character gags (it's a problem that all series eventually face, but some handle it more gracefully than others).

                                                                                      Just had to get that off of my chest. Oda's still doing an good job overall and his story is still entertaining, but I still can't help but sometimes yearn for a simpler time.

                                                                                      The "Marineford Mode" you speak of is actually a fairly interesting thing, as I belive the problem is here is not entirely Oda's fault in a sense that it is somehow logical to stick with it. If you compare sales figures we can see that OP faced it's most successful time in Marineford. I would argue this is because all the loose threads finally connected and formed a big picture of all the subplots in the past few hundred chapters, but I am sure that through the massive fights and climax of the story as well as a certain amount of hype many people started reading OP that weren't that much into it in the first place. We see that over the internet and it is safe to assume that it happened in "RL" as well: The fanbase changed; we have a lot of people who actually like this modus operandi and of course editors and - to a certain degree - Oda himself is stuck to this as they obviously want to keep up this gigantic success they currently have. There might even be fans who dislike most of the earlier because it doesn't fit their image of the modern One Piece as they know it.

                                                                                      This directly effects the transition scenes, which is one of the bigger gripes for me: As Oda is stuck in this modus and now places a figher focus on the fights, the transition scenes get mauled over a lot. Best example would be Fishman Island: We had the Fishman Dojo that was mentioned, a lot of had questions about Fishmen society, etc. Also, we expected to get to know the state of the world rather fast through the typical scenes with our protagonists mentors and family members, showing of their home islands when the Strawhats were travelling. This - unlike after each major arc in the first part - never happened. It feels very disconnected because Oda's transition scenes were not only transition scenes, they were the essential scenes when it came down to character development, delivering a sense of adventure and tying everything together. Compare Skypeia and FI: We had a whole setup arc with nearly no real fights, yet Jaya is beloved by a lot of fans. The reason: World-building. We also spent a lot of time just exploring Skypeia and goofing around. FI on the other hand only had five or so chapter that were about the travel to FI itself (which I immensly enjoyed btw) and even the setup chapters were paced very fast so that we couldn't get enough time to identify with the Fishmen and their society resulting in a lot of people simply not caring about these people in distress.

                                                                                      This brings me to another big gripe for me that is directly related to this: The lack of distinct panels as well as the pacing. Fishman Island was so average because Oda, with the problems explained above, priorized things in a way that the arc became hard to handle. Normally FI could have had the length of at least 60 chapters, however - and Oda already mentioned this in volume 60 I think - he chooses to omit a lot of these transitional scenes to push the story faster forward - most likely to get to the New World as soon as possible, I think he felt pressure to please the hype regarding this. However this was resulting in a very hectic feeling for the whole arc as missing transition scenes made it seem like a lot happened way to fast, greatly reducing the impact and the build-up most important plot points could receive. The more Oda focuses on having cliffhangers and fights, the more panels he needs to convey these scenes resulting in an overall increase of panels per page. This is a problem in a sense that a lot of interaction is reduced to one panel gags - because they take up only one panel. For example, Nami ranting about Hachi and how they would free Kaimie compared to Nami rescuing the kids on PH. It came of as more forced because Oda was a bit in a rush there to push the character's motivation into the arc as well making us feel attached to another set of characters. And due to this and the fact that more attention is paid to the - and let's be honest here, this was NEVER the strongest point of the series nor will it ever be - fighting scenes, the room to set up these oh so important distinct panels that unite character developent, fight scenes and have a cool moment to them got harder. For one, we are oversaturated with doublespread fighting scenes (although this got a lot better in PH) - not every bigger attack needs to have a flashy doublespread with several little panels of reactions to it; if I wanted that I would only read fucking Bleach. On the other hand, I miss double spreads and more bigger panels detailing world-building and character interaction: Remember how Luffy's answers would sometimes take up half a page just or how we only had 4 or 5 panels a page, who in contrast to today featured a much more fleshed out dialogue? This is something I miss, and without these panels, the only thing that gets stuck in most peoples head are fights scenes over fight scenes and if you ever watched a nonstop action movie you know that these do not make for great memorable moments as the overabundance and inflationous use of them is yawn-inducing at some point. Panels and spreads like the end of Skypeia or Alabasta, who sometimes solely consists of memroable quotes are really hard to come by now as most of these were in transitional scenes and are simply missing right now. A shame, since these were emotional high points that really delivered the feelings of this arc and made the defeat of the antagonist all the more sweeter. More "Ring the bell, brat" instead of "I have to use THAT" one could say.
                                                                                      Additionally, Oda has established a gigantic cast in the first 600 chapters, who is way harder to handle when you try to squeeze all interaction these smaller panels. I could care less about the FI princes and Shirhoshi because unlike Vivi or Coby I wasn't really exposed to their personal dilemmas nor do I had the chance to be really exposed to them. I should also mention that this is of course a problem for the SH'S as their interaction time gets further reduced in additional to having nine crewmembers already - we just never got to the see the problems Oda had with nine members as Franky and Brook had very little time to establish themselves before they all got seperated at Sabaody.

                                                                                      Still, a lot of well-known series have suffered from their success in a sense that they were stuck with certain problems who they can't let go so easily. A prominent example would be A Song Of ice and Fire: George R.R. Martin's well known fantasy series decreased a bit in quality as well after the amazing climax the story had in A Storm of Swords. The mass of characters who GRRM felt to be fleshed out as well as the duality of plots told in A Feast for Crows and A Dance with Dragons caused many people to become disillusionized, turning them from fanboys into literal haters. This is, however, part of the normal hype cycle:

                                                                                      !
                                                                                      We reached the peak of inflated expectations with the chapters between 500 and 600. It was only logical that after such a high point, two fractions would be disappointed: The newer fans who expected everything to be like Marineford, and the older fans who wanted to return to their known formula. Problems in this phase tend to get overblown by a large proportion as people for the first time get a real look at the core problems a technology/a story has. Eventually though, this will change. GRRM's ASOIAF still is of outstanding quality although it isn't as good as it used to be. It is the same with One Piece:

                                                                                      I still feel that One Piece is having a great story with amazing potential - it's just that it isn't utilized as much as it was in the past. Look at PH right now, we have several greatly hyped up protagonists as well as at least three interesting arcs looming around just behind the horizon and I doubt most OP fans could say that these times aren't very interesting. As I mentioned above, Oda's main problem right now to me is that it all feels very loosely connected and hasn't the focus that - even though we had a large partion of the story dedicated to adventure - was ever so present in the first 600 chapters. Yet, the curreent problems aren't something that can't be fixed. Actually, it is pretty easy to do so. Give us more time and transition chapters. The upcoming Referie is a great opportunity to do so: Show us the political situation in the world, Oda; give us a big information dump that lasts for several chapters as Vivi and other character we know - and care about - discuss the current state of the OPverse and adress some recent problems. This could serve as a great plot advancement, as Oda could establish antagonists on the political level

                                                                                      ! (and show us that Sabo is alive, as I fully expect him to be an revolutionary agent who infiltrated the government). Additionally, we could use this time to show the Strawhats goofing around a bit like the "Gam" chapter we had before PH, which I - and many others - enjoyed for the fact that it was totally unrelated to the bigger picture and just served transition and group interaction purposes. Of course, such arcs would include a look at the past island we went through and what has happened to them in these past two years. How's the Baratie going? Has Iceburg succeeded or at least progressed in his plans to make Water 7 a floating city? What's going on with the Franky House members? Is Yuma a florishing oasis right now? Provide the fans with answers to these questions - they will appreciate it. In essence I think people want a bit more closure from Oda in that regard, which is easy to get through the - at least they used to be - regular transition chapters at the end of each arc. The one volume long transition arcs after Alabasta, Enies Lobby and Marineford were high points of the series for me because of the mass of character interaction, development and world-building. Oda could've avaoided a lot of the criticism here if he showed us such an arc after the SH's departed from Sabaody for the second time or after they left FI. Is is no shame to resolve most open questions after a two year timeskip, after all resolved problems usually generate new ones. However, I am sure that Oda eventually will give us the answers we need as PH has a slower pacing and Oda seems to slowly realize what is missing right now. And it will be at this point in the hopefully not so far away future that most criticism will cease.

                                                                                      If you know the enemy and know yourself, you need not fear the result of a hundred battles. - _Sun Tzu, The Art Of War

                                                                                      _

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                                                                                      • Miss White day
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                                                                                        True. I can see the executive meddling and the feeling to write "Marinford" style. GAH I just hope we won't hit the dreaded shonen classic "tournament arc". I swear if they end up docking at an island that is a Tournament island I'll scream. This isn't Fairytail. (Sorry for the reference it's the only current one I know that's in a middle of a tournament arc)

                                                                                        If we end up losing world building to fights and fanservice I will be one heck of a sad panda.

                                                                                        Fans make the fandom. What is your fandom made of?

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                                                                                        • TheCrystalShip
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                                                                                          Really, I would be happiest if every arc was like Water Seven, where the fights seemed to happen because the STRAW HATS were emotionally invested in their outcomes, and there was a threat of them being torn apart. But that might just be my bias towards gritty violence, crime and intrigue. God I loved Water Seven.

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                                                                                            beck26 @Nidhoeggr
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                                                                                            i agree. and i would like to add something:

                                                                                            its also at some extent, the fans' fault…especially the new ones who expects that one piece is concentrated on fighting scenes and cool ass super powers...yes, in a way yeah, but one piece is not all action...i agree wholeheartedly about the lack of transitional and establishing and world chapters especially in the fishman arc (which in my opinion is the only bad arc, i like it to be honest but i agree many things feel like it missed from a typical one piece arc)

                                                                                            thats why i get annoyed when people say "it got a slow pacing" or "why there are no fights?"...like they think theyre reading naruto or bleach...(no offense to these series' fans)

                                                                                            these kinds of reaction i think reached oda and decided to please them too along with long-time fans but its the long-time fans' expectations that suffered.

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                                                                                            @TheCrystalShip:

                                                                                            Really, I would be happiest if every arc was like Water Seven, where the fights seemed to happen because the STRAW HATS were emotionally invested in their outcomes, and there was a threat of them being torn apart. But that might just be my bias towards gritty violence, crime and intrigue. God I loved Water Seven.

                                                                                            baroque works saga, arlong arc and water seven FTW.

                                                                                            punk hazard is going that direction, just need to nail that "emotion" attach to it and its gonna be epic.

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                                                                                              Actually i am pretty sure, that we will go back to old style oda after this arc. Marineford, Fishman Island and Punk Hazard are mainly worldview story arcs. Hell we are still in the early phase of the post-timeskip, we should really be patient.

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                                                                                                yeah, punk hazard is going to be epic so we have to be patient…and the epic fights will be there once everyone is on the table...plus i expect a big twist by the end of this saga. fingers crossed. LOL

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                                                                                                  this thread smells like this is just the thread opener trying to impose his own personal opinions as general opinions. "i asked on an active board", YEAH RIGHT.

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                                                                                                    @Aldrato:

                                                                                                    this thread smells like this is just the thread opener trying to impose his own personal opinions as general opinions. "i asked on an active board", YEAH RIGHT.

                                                                                                    Nah, it is pretty easy to agree with his points, IMO.

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                                                                                                      Good read.
                                                                                                      I agree with pretty much everything FelRes said. Especially the parts about character interactions/ development, and their overabundance (Where the hell did Den, Camie, Hachi, the quintuplets and Shyarleys relevance to the FI arc go?). I will still say Punk Hazard is a step in the right direction after Fishman Island, with its fewer characters and greater challenge level for the crew, but theres still absolute wastes of space like the Cool Bros, horrible Sanji moments, and a real drought in emotional character moments…save Chopper and Nami. The "drugged children" subplot is the best thing about this arc, and I hope focus will remain on it.
                                                                                                      Oh, And Brownbeard. CC's betrayal of Brownbeard, and the latters mission to save his crew, has me more invested than 99% of Law and Luffys shenanigans this arc. I am dead serious.
                                                                                                      Smokers feud with Vergo, and the sacrifices made by G5, are pretty good too, but thats just it: all the most emotional, best written moments of this arc...are disconnected from the Straw Hats.

                                                                                                      Oh yeah, and the "Baby 5/ any newly introduced character for crewmate!" trend is annoying as hell.

                                                                                                      EDIT: Great post by Nidhoeggr as well. I really, Really miss the half-page panels of a character just saying something memorable. Like, Sanjis cigarette scene at skypea. Usopp after getting hit with the 4 ton bat. Nami asking Luffy for help. Devoting that much space to the scene makes it stand out more, thats manga writing 101 (and a concept Kubo has raped thoroughly), and the last scene I can think of that utilized it really well was Luffys "I'm weak" moment.
                                                                                                      There was the "NO ME PIRATE KING" with Hody too, but that sucked ass.

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                                                                                                      • Nidhoeggr
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                                                                                                        @The:

                                                                                                        Oh yeah, and the "Baby 5/ any newly introduced character for crewmate!" trend is annoying as hell.

                                                                                                        It was always one of the things that bugged me, but recently it's getting out of hand.

                                                                                                        Still undecided about the issue with the Haki, though. As I mentioned earlier, fights were never the high point of the series and the logia's were way too powerful before Haki. The only things that doesn't go well with me is that Oda actually didn't went far enough with the display of Haki in the war. It is a contradiction when we didn't see much of the fabled Haki in a war between a Yonkou and the best Marines, yet two arcs later every Vice-Admiral and lackey uses it. However, one could argue that due to the abundance of Haki at these levels the only thing that really happened to change due to Haki is a nerfing of Logia abilities (and Luffy showing of King's Haki was plot point after all).

                                                                                                        And about the over-abundance of characters: I can't really agree on that one as we are at maybe 55% of the total story's length and I am sure that the Supernovae and all the other hyped big players will play a role in the future. We got to DoFla after 400 chapters and I'm sure we'll get to all the others as well. However, I agree in regards to the side characters on FI, but that was already covered by my last post.

                                                                                                        If you know the enemy and know yourself, you need not fear the result of a hundred battles. - _Sun Tzu, The Art Of War

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