Life of the hikikomori / NEET

bartholemew kuma

Hey there, i want to start a discussion / debate over NEET's, hikikomori's, hardcore Otaku, and hardcore nerds.

I'm talking about those who chose this lifestyle, not those who are forced to become NEET's due to economic problems.

I know of two hikikomori's. The first one barely ever come out of her house, hasn't left in 5 months, beyond texting that is the only talking she has with the outside world. Maybe the phone call once every few weeks. Stays in all the time playing video games, reading books and listening to music (favorite being Marylin Manson). She likes her lifestyle and doesn't want to change. I don't think she fears communicating with others.

The second one is a nice guy i know, he comes sometimes to the university, takes an exam or w/e. Talks to no-body (except myself on occasion) then goes straight home, watching anime and reading manga, not coming out ever to chill. I'm not sure if he wants this life style. I feel he might fear social interactions.

Two incredibly different type of people, both shut-ins, only thing in common is that they are both pretty well off financially.

Do you personally know anyone who fits the term hikikomori?
Have you ever had problems similar to it?
What do you think causes this problem? Is it mainly social?

This new phenomena has affected young adults all over the world, so lets ask people from every corner of the world.
So let's create a nice debate.

valiantt

I guess a good western counterpart of this "hikkikomori" is one of those basement shut-ins that live in their parent's homes and play MMORPGs or such all day. Yeah, such a lifestyle sounds pretty awful and terrifying.

FelRes

@valiantt:

I guess a good western counterpart of this "hikkikomori" is one of those basement shut-ins that live in their parent's homes and play MMORPGs or such all day. Yeah, such a lifestyle sounds pretty awful and terrifying.

hey eff you man :[

Monkey King

I definitely had tendencies bordering on that, more agoraphobic than hikkikomori though.
So much of it was really crazy psychological blockage and of course modern ease of being able to slip away from your fears into endlessly distracting loops of computers, books and shit like that.

Somehow within a year or two I went from that to visiting large loud scary foreign girlfriend families who would bite the head off a lesser man, and came out just fine.
lol at life

Enzeru

I know Sasami-san. Does that count too?

And I wouldn't call it new given how long otaku/shut-ins have been around.

valiantt

Oh yeah, shut-ins existed all throughout history. Back in the middle ages, the shut-ins were known as "monks". The main difference between now and then is that shut-ins were kinda revered back in the day, now…not so much.

taboo

Nerd recluse culture

I think we had this discussion before lol

Chrissie

@Monkey:

I definitely had tendencies bordering on that, more agoraphobic than hikkikomori though.
So much of it was really crazy psychological blockage and of course modern ease of being able to slip away from your fears into endlessly distracting loops of computers, books and shit like that.

Somehow within a year or two I went from that to visiting large loud scary foreign girlfriend families who would bite the head off a lesser man, and came out just fine.
lol at life

Nyahahahahaa~

Bill

@Monkey:

I definitely had tendencies bordering on that, more agoraphobic than hikkikomori though.
So much of it was really crazy psychological blockage and of course modern ease of being able to slip away from your fears into endlessly distracting loops of computers, books and shit like that.

The mystery of Zephos history prowess revealed!

Also would this count….

!

Arei

I sort of chose to be more of a shut-in, staying home with my video games and internet as I was growing up. When I was younger it was less of a choice, my mom would never get up and take me anywhere, she'd sleep in on the weekends if I stayed at home for something (usually went to my grandparents on the weekends). I also had to make plans in advance if I wanted to go anywhere or do anything with my friends. Most of the time they'd ask me on Thursday or Friday to spend Friday night at their house, but I wouldn't be allowed to go because my mom didn't want me around the rest of the weekend… Not that she had any plans or did much.

I had a friend I got to frequently see while in elementary school but after we moved I'd only have friends like that for short periods of time. I just got used to staying at my grandparents by myself and then later when I HAD the choice (could drive wherever I wanted) I still didn't choose to do anything.

And eventually I got tired of this and tried to get out a lot more, but my lack of social skills screwed up more then I got right. Blah blah I learned a lot, though now I'm going through another extended period of unemployment... Though honestly I really didn't get much chances for socialization working all the time because my schedule was terrible.

I honestly would give up the internet for a regular life. I love my online friends, in fact I'd love to move up closer to a lot of them as soon as I could, but it doesn't replace meat-space interactions and friendships. And honestly I think Facebook has ruined my relationships with too many people, I should've stuck to blogging on LJ...

Monkey King

@Bill:

The mystery of Zephos history prowess revealed!

Also would this count….

! http://cache.ohinternet.com/images/c/c3/Chris_chan_looking_up.jpg

Surprisingly no. He made a constant effort to get out and about and into restraining orders.

Arei

Do I even want to google this Chris-chan??

I remember this one guy I knew online like that… I wish I could wipe it all from memory

Bill

@Monkey:

Surprisingly no. He made a constant effort to get out and about and into restraining orders.

Run for the hills!

C_uggs

That´s why we have those anime/manga events, so otakus and nerds can gather in a location outside.

Social meeting in disguise.

bartholemew kuma

There are shut-ins who do not like anime/manga/vidya. There are those who are obsessed with films, TV shows, reality etc…

Bill

@bartholemew:

There are shut-ins who do not like anime/manga/vidya. There are those who are obsessed with films, TV shows, reality etc…

Don't forget comics.

Arei

Oh my lord I googled Chris-chan and I can never unsee this. Fucking hell DX

There's also plenty of shut-ins who are interested in nothing. They just watch TV and play Facebook games all day. Or make websites for their dog, but then I guess that implies atleast one interest.

DarkFalcon

Me and my dad both have something of a shut-in. I sometimes feel I have force myself out to meet people or go somewhere. I love reading and watching stories and doing small researcher on history or culture in the Internet. And as for my dad nothing makes him happier than spending whole day reading, he wouldn't have any social life if he hadn't need to work and if other people didn't drag him out. We are not that bad though, we both manage to carry out our live. I'm regularly on university, I've manage to get a degree in time, I sometimes meet some with my acquaintances outside university and I'm looking for a job. I know a girl, bit older than myself, who was hard to be seen outside her house, playing mmorpg and chatting with people on-line, who fall behind with her degree work for over two years, and I don't know if she eventually got a degree or not. We were wondering what had happened in rare occasions she was to be met outside. It's bad when shut-in tendencies prevent you from doing something in you life. That girl was really smart and she was even bit of an activist in LGBT movement (I don't think she was in any organization, she studied psychology ang she took part in workshops and she used to spread information and discuss with people).

Aohige_AP

I can understand young isolated teens/young adults who don't feel like they belong in the world having mental issues leading to a period of it.

But if you're a grown adult and NEETing for decades, EARN YOUR OWN CASH OR STARVE TO DEATH.
Too many spoiled idiots in Japan these days. Vast majority of them simply do so because their parents allow them to.
They're not poor souls who need help, more often than not, they're the worst breed of scums in Japan who spend all day talking crap about everyone else, racist comments, and saying how society is to be blamed for everything.

To people with genuine mental health issues forcing to be shut-ins, my sympathy goes out.
To the vast majority that are lazy ass punks, GTFO or die.

Gliblord

@Aohige_AP:

I can understand young isolated teens/young adults who don't feel like they belong in the world having mental issues leading to a period of it.

But if you're a grown adult and NEETing for decades, EARN YOUR OWN CASH OR STARVE TO DEATH.
Too many spoiled idiots in Japan these days. Vast majority of them simply do so because their parents allow them to.
They're not poor souls who need help, more often than not, they're the worst breed of scums in Japan who spend all day talking crap about everyone else, racist comments, and saying how society is to be blamed for everything.

To people with genuine mental health issues forcing to be shut-ins, my sympathy goes out.
To the vast majority that are lazy ass punks, GTFO or die.

I'm not exactly the paragon of go-getters myself, but why do you think Japan got to have such epidemic levels of lazy slobs

Aohige_AP

If we had the answer to that, I think some measure would have been taken to remedy it.

I personally blame it on the parents, Japanese in general are "too soft" about…. well, everything.
The lazy bums do their bumming because the ones feeding them are LETTING them.

The strict education system and culture of "be successful or you're a failure" also probably has a lot to do with it. A lot of people feel like if you failed once in life, you're a fail for life. Especially the graduating and finding your first job part. A lot of companies in Japan prefer fresh graduates over older people, so they feel like they fail at that point, you're lost for life.

However, this is mostly an excuse used by the slobs if you ask me.

wolfwood

Yeah i'm no hikkiomori or anything but i've had periods of my life where i've been a real homebody, mostly due to economy reasons or just being kinda lethargic

As Zep said it's just so easy to pass the time with computers, and entertainment

Gliblord

@Aohige_AP:

If we had the answer to that, I think some measure would have been taken to remedy it.

I personally blame it on the parents, Japanese in general are "too soft" about…. well, everything.
The lazy bums do their bumming because the ones feeding them are LETTING them.

The strict education system and culture of "be successful or you're a failure" also probably has a lot to do with it. A lot of people feel like if you failed once in life, you're a fail for life. Especially the graduating and finding your first job part. A lot of companies in Japan prefer fresh graduates over older people, so they feel like they fail at that point, you're lost for life.

However, this is mostly an excuse used by the slobs if you ask me.

The Japanese education system is so retardedly life-consuming, though. I can really see why so many kids would get disenchanted. However, I understand the self-enforcing cycle of imprisoning apathy very well and I've seldom ever failed academically, so there's that counterpoint as well. I think at some point in life it seems like the world and its troubles and injustices just loom too huge and it's appealing in this age to close yourself off from all interactions that would cast doubt on your self-imprisonment safety zone. "What's the point, I can be happy playing Skyrim and posting on /b/ for the rest of my life."

cooldud

BBC has been covering this lately: http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/magazine-23182523
Reader responses compiled: http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/magazine-23255526

Gliblord

From that article

Perhaps a large number of otaku and hikikomori have autistic spectrum disorders such as Asperger syndrome. My sons aged 15 and 13 have this diagnosis and they are heavily into manga and anime [Japanese comics and animation], are socially awkward, prefer to stay at home (where they say they feel safe and comfortable), love computers and have unusually formal and old-fashioned language. To them the anime world is more real, understandable and attractive. They have both withdrawn to the degree that I have now been forced to home school them. My husband and I also find ourselves increasingly isolated and trapped in the home environment simply because we don't feel able to leave the boys on their own for any significant time. When the isolation becomes entrenched the way back out in the real world gets harder. My younger son is obsessed with anything Japanese and wants to live there because, in his own words, "I would fit in there. Nobody would thing I am strange. In Japan I would be seen as normal and my way of thinking would be appreciated." Cassandra, Wollongong, Australia

fingers collar

Foolio

@Gliblord:

From that article

fingers collar

Also just within the snippet you quoted, I don't really like the implication there that manga/anime lends itself particularly well to autistic children, or that autistic children are more likely to be into it. It isn't actually stated but that's what it seems to suggest. Which isn't true at all. It could be any hobby at all. Maybe they should feel lucky their kids aren't obsessed with expensive model airplanes instead.

Bucephalus

that stigmas still pretty common here in the states, albeit the negativity surrounding it has been mitigated in recent years

not that people necessarily assume you're autistic if you like anime, but there's a certain "oh, you like anime? like… cartoons?" vibe surrounding the culture. i saw the tide begin to shift a few years ago though; a lot more people seem comfortable with the idea now. i'm betting it was because a number of folks thought DBZ and Naruto were all the field had to offer. i saw a concurrent increase in Miyazaki fans too, so perhaps the popularity of his work spread and began to eliminate stereotypes

Foolio

@Bucephalus:

that stigmas still pretty common here in the states, albeit the negativity surrounding it has been mitigated in recent years

not that people necessarily assume you're autistic if you like anime, but there's a certain "oh, you like anime? like… cartoons?" vibe surrounding the culture. i saw the tide begin to shift a few years ago though; a lot more people seem comfortable with the idea now. i'm betting it was because a number of folks thought DBZ and Naruto were all the field had to offer. i saw a concurrent increase in Miyazaki fans too, so perhaps the popularity of his work spread and began to eliminate stereotypes

Oh it certainly has a widespread negative stigma but I've never heard people (in all seriousness) imply that you're actually mentally disabled for it.

Bucephalus

well i think the woman in the article was implying anime and manga are mediums that sort of lend themselves to people with social disorders.
i figure if you actually ask someone why they don't like anime it'll be that they think it's stupid in a childish sort of way. it ties in with the perception of the autistic individual that is essentially a nonfunctional homebody who just tinkers with legos all day. i think the easy association with childhood cartoons goes hand in hand with the social atavism implicit in the average understanding of autism/aspergers.

Foolio

@Bucephalus:

well i think the woman in the article was implying anime and manga are mediums that sort of lend themselves to people with social disorders.

Yes but this is true of any hobby that doesn't involve other people. Which is a lot of hobbies. Including AMERICAN comics and cartoons. What does this have to do with Japan?

Bucephalus

people think the same thing if you are 25 and really into comic books. it isn't drastically different.

and uhh maybe i'm misunderstanding your question but it has to do with Japan because that's the culture her sons idealize??

Foolio

Maybe I'm just taking the statement out of context because I haven't actually read the article. It just seemed like Japanese media was being singled out as something special when it isn't.

Bucephalus

that was taken from the comment section which was pretty much arguing that NEETs don't necessarily thrive only in Japan
her comment was, if i recall correctly, the only comment that dealt with anime and manga
I don't think any fingers were being pointed at Japan; if anything, that would be antithetical to the article's purpose

Foolio

Ok well I'll shut up then.

Steven D. Teach

I don't really agree with the idea that that sort of lifestyle is embraced in Japan. I think there is just a larger number of those types here and because they actually have a label for themselves it seems that way. Most people I talk to about the subject resent NEETs/hikkomori because they contribute nothing to the work force.

It's kind of a strange issue for me. I was fairly introverted up until high school, then I became wildly extroverted and don't really identify with myself before that outside of a few hobbies.

Aohige_AP

Anime, manga, and video games have nothing to do with it.
If anything, the biggest contributor next to the parenting issue I mentioned above, is simply internet.
The inexpensive, unlimited amount of entertainment it provides, as well as non-physical psuedo-social characteristics easily lends to some people becoming encouraged to detach him/herself from society physically.

While the Net is not inherently the problem, it's an easy escape to those who already face social problems in life.
Although Social Anxiety is not entirely absent even online, it is significantly less frequent once the physical element is removed.