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But the thought of a possible female that breaks cliche of the demographic, would frickin awesome.
Perhaps breaking the cliche by being eager to jump into battle instead of passive…
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Or maybe breaking the cliche of staying away from the boys' antics by joining in…
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You're right. I sure wish Oda made a character like that.
'demographics' and 'sausage party' have been "solid arguments" since Shabaody, while in contrast, we get Jinbe.
so ye, Shonen is highly dominated by boys, getting several of them in the main cast, in this genre, doesn't make it 'poor wiriting' in the slightiest.
But the staples (or tropes, really) are males fighting and female eye candy on the side. So one or the other shouldn't automatically be precluded. Even if they're not perfectly balanced it is definitely tipped a bit too far on one side, especially with the crew getting separated so frequently now. Even some of the major villains are female which is rare, so you'd think more female nakama would be the logical response. Oda's been doing things way better than most other mangaka so continuing to break the mold is what we should expect.
You know what? Not even worth the effort. How's that for condescension?
6.5/10
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But the staples (or tropes, really) are males fighting and female eye candy on the side. So one or the other shouldn't automatically be precluded. Even if they're not perfectly balanced it is definitely tipped a bit too far on one side, especially with the crew getting separated so frequently now.
Oda's favourite manga is Dragonball, and that was a giant sausage party. Much moreso than one piece.
Purely coincidence
what is breaking the cliche?
In shonen the variety of unique characters are boys like you've stated. Granted there's been some really cool females. In regards to One Piece, a lot of the female character have similar foundations in terms of body shapes and faces, I don't have have a big issue with it, because sometimes they make up for it in personality. I want to see a complex female that has scars and complexities you normally wouldn't see with the tone of One Piece.
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Perhaps breaking the cliche by being eager to jump into battle instead of passive…
[HIDE]https://78.media.tumblr.com/3c994e9521705006135862a9575777e9/tumblr_inline_olbp96sdy61u93g15_1280.pngOr maybe breaking the cliche of staying away from the boys' antics by joining in…
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http://s3.mkklcdnv2.com/mangakakalot/r1/read_one_piece_manga_online_free4/chapter_902/19.jpg
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You're right. I sure wish Oda made a character like that.
Yes, Carrot is in fact closest to that concept.
6.5/10
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Oda's favourite manga is Dragonball, and that was a giant sausage party. Much moreso than one piece.
But the thing is, One Piece…
…times better than DB/DBZ. So I expect better from Oda than to fall into that trap, which he hasn't. I'm just expecting him to make another female a permanent fixture instead of another Rebecca or Vivi.
But the thing is, One Piece…
https://media1.tenor.com/images/5d3022e7d8f6b0e36b86170b676c601c/tenor.gif?itemid=4474083
…times better than DB/DBZ. So I expect better from Oda than to fall into that trap, which he hasn't. I'm just expecting him to make another female a permanent fixture instead of another Rebecca or Vivi.
We are talking about Oda here, right?
Purely coincidence
We are talking about Oda here, right?
http://onepiecegold.altervista.org/wp-content/uploads/2017/03/2796688-thumb-300xauto-2428118.png
By trap, I'm talking about having way too many male characters and virtually no females. Oda's far more balanced by comparison but I'm still willing to be he'll continue to do better. I'm not talking about him not objectifying women in the manga, that ship sailed WAY long ago.
two females in the main cast is impressively more than you could expect in shonen.
in Teach's crew, which is supposed to be the main enemy team only has one female(that we know) and will hardly become a higher number than that.
Yeah, the Smurfette principle is a real thing, but One Piece is not really above the average: most "groups" have one and one girl only, sometimes not even that. The SH are an exception, but we are talking about a really big group, in those numbers is not really hard to have more than one girl even in shonen.
With 10+ members, I think 2 would be what you could regularly expect from a shonen, but 3 wouldn't really be really that surprising (specially if Oda is going for the redhead/brunette/blonde trope, which I can see happening - and this is not just because I expect Carrot to check the third box).
two females in the main cast is impressively more than you could expect in shonen.
in Teach's crew, which is supposed to be the main enemy team only has one female(that we know) and will hardly become a higher number than that.
I love Devon. One Piece is unique in a lot of aspects. Nami and Robin are great.
@.access:
Yeah, the Smurfette principle is a real thing, but One Piece is not really above the average: most "groups" have one and one girl only, sometimes not even that. The SH are an exception, but we are talking about a really big group, in those numbers is not really hard to have more than one girl even in shonen.
With 10+ members, I think 2 would be what you could regularly expect from a shonen, but 3 wouldn't really be really that surprising (specially if Oda is going for the redhead/brunette/blonde trope, which I can see happening - and this is not just because I expect Carrot to check the third box).
Shanks crew is bigger and I haven't seen a women anywhere(unless I'm forgetting someone)
but Robin is black/purple haired, besides Chopper(whom counts more as fur than hair) we dont really have a brown-haired SH.
but Robin is black/purple haired, besides Chopper(whom counts more as fur than hair) we dont really have a brown-haired SH.
Look at the trope page. Black hair counts as "brunette" too.
https://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/BlondeBrunetteRedhead
Shanks crew is bigger and I haven't seen a women anywhere(unless I'm forgetting someone)
but Robin is black/purple haired, besides Chopper(whom counts more as fur than hair) we dont really have a brown-haired SH.
That's why I said Oda usually sticks to the "one girl per group" rule or even less. There are glaring cases where he avoids having any woman (Shanks' crew, as you mentioned or the SH Fleet Commanders. The WB Commanders also were only men, but Oda gave an in-universe reason for that by saying Newgate was a men only kind of man). But having 2 girls in a group of 10 is not really that hard to come across in shonen… just in One Piece (back when Robin joined, though, and we had 2 girls in a group of 7, it was surprisingly high, though).
As for Robin's hair color, both brown or black hair is used for the brunette in the trope I mentioned.
I love Devon. One Piece is unique in a lot of aspects. Nami and Robin are great.
there is a plus
in real history, theres only been one pirate crew(documented) to have two females in the same ship, due to how hard was for females to sail on piracy.
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Calico_Jack
Oda's been basing several things in real piracy, so the reason he's been keeping it with two may be connected to that historic fact.
Oda's been basing several things in real piracy, so the reason he's been keeping it with two may be connected to that historic fact.
Several crews have had more than two women though. Bellamy's crew, the Kuja pirates, the BM pirates, the Beast pirates… The nurses were technically part of Whitebeard's crew.
Purely coincidence
but basing off having two females on the main crew due to historic piracy makes lots of sense.
just as this fella up here mentions Shirohige only had male commanders due to Edward Teach(real pirate) being an only-men Captain.
As long as it remains clear that a character gets one number only, I don't see why I can't agree to this, personally speaking. It really depends on where Jinbe is placed, because him not being #10 at some point is out of the question. But he could be placed among the ID or FI cards with either 10 or a temporary number, or not given a card at all to keep it vague. So unless we get something clearly disproving the number theory, I for one will accept your terms.
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Does the name Shutenmaru mean anything??? and do we know if it's a girl or guy based of the kanji or is it unknown???
also I'm a big fan of the crew getting back together by the order they joined, not that it will definitely happen but it would be really fun
Member of Beelzebub is Freakin' Awesome Group
what I'm catching up on currently: Gintama, lone wolf & cub, Nausicaä of the Valley of the Wind, and lost in poem (by our very own AP member GEPPETTOSMONSTER)
"Maru" is usually used in boy names.
Shutenmaru could be a reference to the demon, Shuten-douji
The shonen genre has its preferences for boy/man characters over girls, but I don't think that's a hard rule, and things are evolving. Even more so because nowadays there are plenty of girls in Japan reading Weekly Shonen Jump, and also the meta in anime has developed into a bunch of cute girls doing all kinds of stuff (trivial or badass). The audience in the genre is claiming for more and better girls.
And I don't see One Piece being overly conservative in the matter. On the contrary, it is above many other series for having written many fascinating female characters (including Nami and Robin), even tough there's an obvious sexism in the manga. Unfortunatelly, it could be much better.
However, we don't need to be pessimistic about the future female characters. Oda shows talent writing them just as much as the boys. Even design-wise, for each Nami-face there are some girls with different looks and body shapes (although the boobs are probably gonna be big).
But people should know what to expect from a female protagonist when it comes to design, because authors have to pander to the tastes of the audience (and this narrows the options). Girls will be pretty, relatable and somewhat standard. To be fair, this also applies to men too!!, although it's easier (very common) to break the mold with supporting male leads (like Franky), for a lot of different reasons (meta and social), but never the main character (like Luffy). You see, even outside of animation things are like that.
Whatever kind of girl you want to see for the next Strawhat, just adjust your hope enough to include a pretty face (and you know exactly how Oda draws pretty faces) and a behavior that fits. That's a little depressing, sure, but at least the girl can still be cool and original (like Carrot).
Several crews have had more than two women though. Bellamy's crew, the Kuja pirates, the BM pirates, the Beast pirates… The nurses were technically part of Whitebeard's crew.
Let's not forget Doffy's crew. Sugar, Violet, Baby 5, Jora, and Monet. Having more than two women in a crew is not some impossibility.
If I'm fairly sure that Carrot is joining after Jinbe, then I'm 99% certain that there will be a new female member in general. I've always pointed back at the Databook Green sketch:
Just look at that original crew: if that shipwright fish is a guy, that's 8:1 M/F ratio. If we assume that some form of Jinbe was there but erased, that'd make the ratio 9:1. And Robin was only added later, right before the series officially started.
The question I've always asked is this: would Oda have, at any point, ever had a cast with so many men and just one woman?
Like the Avatar? / Like the Miis?
Dragalia Lost ID: 97617932505
If I'm fairly sure that Carrot is joining after Jinbe, then I'm 99% certain that there will be a new female member in general. I've always pointed back at the Databook Green sketch:
https://i.imgur.com/6OWCHNC.png
Just look at that original crew: if that shipwright fish is a guy, that's 8:1 M/F ratio. If we assume that some form of Jinbe was there but erased, that'd make the ratio 9:1. And Robin was only added later, right before the series officially started.
The question I've always asked is this: would Oda have, at any point, ever had a cast with so many men and just one woman?
I don't think that sketch really means anything either way. That was done back when One Piece was only supposed to last 5 years. Here we are, 20+ years later, and he's already changed so much about that lineup.
Purely coincidence
The shonen genre has its preferences for boy/man characters over girls, but I don't think that's a hard rule, and things are evolving. Even more so because nowadays there are plenty of girls in Japan reading Weekly Shonen Jump, and also the meta in anime has developed into a bunch of cute girls doing all kinds of stuff (trivial or badass). The audience in the genre is claiming for more and better girls.
And I don't see One Piece being overly conservative in the matter. On the contrary, it is above many other series for having written many fascinating female characters (including Nami and Robin), even tough there's an obvious sexism in the manga. Unfortunatelly, it could be much better.
However, we don't need to be pessimistic about the future female characters. Oda shows talent writing them just as much as the boys. Even design-wise, for each Nami-face there are some girls with different looks and body shapes (although the boobs are probably gonna be big).
But people should know what to expect from a female protagonist when it comes to design, because authors have to pander to the tastes of the audience (and this narrows the options). Girls will be pretty, relatable and somewhat standard. To be fair, this also applies to men too!!, although it's easier (very common) to break the mold with supporting male leads (like Franky), for a lot of different reasons (meta and social), but never the main character (like Luffy). You see, even outside of animation things are like that.
Whatever kind of girl you want to see for the next Strawhat, just adjust your hope enough to include a pretty face (and you know exactly how Oda draws pretty faces) and a behavior that fits. That's a little depressing, sure, but at least the girl can still be cool and original (like Carrot).
I don't doubt Oda at all. If anything, I'd love for to draw a female that breaks his usual threshold, a challenge so to speak. You're right, that the readers are evolving!
yea but doesn't have to be a female to 'break the cliche'.
could go on with an LGBT-sort of character.
even an asexual living thing.
we're really just diving into pool of plenty of possibilities, where another boy happens to be one of them.
also I'm a big fan of the crew getting back together by the order they joined, not that it will definitely happen but it would be really fun
Then after Brook joins the group, we get Jinbe. Then Big Mom shows up with Pudding in tow.
yea but doesn't have to be a female to 'break the cliche'.
could go on with an LGBT-sort of character.
even an asexual living thing.
we're really just diving into pool of plenty of possibilities, where another boy happens to be one of them.
You're absolutely correct on that.
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Then after Brook joins the group, we get Jinbe. Then Big Mom shows up with Pudding in tow.
Pudding does have the brown hair…. Though i cant say I enjoy her character though.
Pudding does have the brown hair…. Though i cant say I enjoy her character though.
I don't enjoy Jinbe's character, that's not stopping him from joining. Or Usopp.
could go on with an LGBT-sort of character.
I believe the revolutionaries called dibs on all of those.
Purely coincidence
Is it really too much to ask for a tasteful bishie twink to join the crew.
I believe the revolutionaries called dibs on all of those.
not all of them.
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Pudding does have the brown hair…. Though i cant say I enjoy her character though.
uuh why, she's the ultimate DB/Z reference, the three eyes of Ten Shin Han and the switching personality of Launch.
you just gotta love that.
Pudding's flip flop personality doesn't sit that well with me. If she does end up joining, I'll eventually warm up to her. plus the dynamic she adds would be interesting.
Pudding's flip flop personality doesn't sit that well with me. If she does end up joining, I'll eventually warm up to her. plus the dynamic she adds would be interesting.
Would it? She has a good dynamic with Sanji, but she doesn't really have any particular dynamic with any of the others. Everyone except for Sanji just sweatdrops at her.
Purely coincidence
Would it? She has a good dynamic with Sanji, but she doesn't really have any particular dynamic with any of the others. Everyone except for Sanji just sweatdrops at her.
Obviously she's going to have dynamic with other membrs, just the thought of how it would work between them would be interesting. With Carrot, we know what to expect. So thinking about long-term dynamic for both is thought provoking.
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"Maru" is usually used in boy names.
Shutenmaru could be a reference to the demon, Shuten-douji
I love fate. So the lore of what could be from this name is exciting.
Obviously she's going to have dynamic with other membrs, just the thought of how it would work between them would be interesting.
In what way? I'm struggling to think of any aspect of her personality that doesn't have to do with Sanji or BM. If Zoro, Usopp, and Pudding go on a short adventure together, how does she act other than being generically present? There's a diference between the unknown being thought-provoking, and having to write her a personality from scratch. Pudding is completely dependant on other characters in order to exist in the story in any meaningful way.
Purely coincidence
In what way? I'm struggling to think of any aspect of her personality that doesn't have to do with Sanji or BM. If Zoro, Usopp, and Pudding go on a short adventure together, how does she act other than being generically present? There's a diference between the unknown being thought-provoking, and having to write her a personality from scratch. Pudding is completely dependant on other characters in order to exist in the story in any meaningful way.
I mean, it's not like we ever saw her acting completely evil and completely sweet, so it's not like she would display a funny evil-sweet switch personality which could easily bash with other characters
I mean, it's not like we ever saw her acting completely evil and completely sweet, so it's not like she would display a funny evil-sweet switch personality which could easily bash with other characters
That's in relation to sanji though. She was acting perfectly fine when talking to her siblings.
Purely coincidence
That's in relation to sanji though. She was acting perfectly fine when talking to her siblings.
Did you somehow miss the part where it was pointed out she convinced herself she was evil when she's really not. She was crazy even before Sanji, he just intensified it with infatuation.
Did you somehow miss the part where it was pointed out she convinced herself she was evil when she's really not. She was crazy even before Sanji, he just intensified it with infatuation.
She has never had any problem acting normal when not in the presence of Sanji. Look how she's completely normal until she realizes he's there:
Or, if you read the manga, you would notice she puts up an evil front in front of others to appeal to them, and snapped on some bully kids, was clearly unstable, but wasn't like that with Lola, a character she looked up to, and looks distraught when no one's looking. The readers couldn't even tell for the longest time which was the real Pudding and it turns out they both are. All you're doing is showing my point that being around Sanji brings it out even further because he brings out flustered feelings she can't handle. If she were hanging out with other crew mates, she would be more mellow and probably show her "sweet" helpful side unless it's a scene where Sanji shows up in which case she'll swing. She might be a funny asshole like she was with Reiju too depending on the situation, but that could be toward anyone. And that would be her main gimmick like how Franky defaults to supahh, Usopp freaks out, Nami bitches out, Zoro loses direction, etc. And no, she wouldn't need some defined relationship with every other crew mate since we can't really describe relationships like Nami/Franky, Brook/Chopper, or Jinbe/everyone but Luffy
Or, if you read the manga, you would notice she puts up an evil front in front of others to appeal to them, and snapped on some bully kids, was clearly unstable, but wasn't like that with Lola, a character she looked up to, and looks distraught when no one's looking. The readers couldn't even tell for the longest time which was the real Pudding and it turns out they both are.
I think its you who needs to reread WCI, because Pudding's arc was accepting that she wasn't really evil, it was only ever an act to make her life easier. We see this in every single unguarded instant of hers that she has after the wedding. Look at all the times she talks to Chiffon, that's her real self. Her love for Sanji is confusing and so she lapses back into her old habits, but that's all her evil self is: old habits.
Show me a single panel of Pudding being evil after the wedding where she isn't either confused by Sanji, or merely pretending to be evil for the benefit of her family.
Avocado is right that Pudding's tsundere/yandere unstable personality post-wedding only exists around Sanji, because he triggers her emotions.
Is it really too much to ask for a tasteful bishie twink to join the crew.
You mean Dellinger, right? Because I would agree.
someone with that kind of flamboyant attitude is indeed lacking in the crew.
Dellinger is in Impel Down atm, but theres plenty of room for introduccions.
@.access:
You mean Dellinger, right? Because I would agree.
Remove the psychoticness and the heels and maybe.
No deal. Remove the heels, remove the soul. That's my motto… or it's gonna be from now on.
I don't think that sketch really means anything either way. That was done back when One Piece was only supposed to last 5 years. Here we are, 20+ years later, and he's already changed so much about that lineup.
Oda said in that recent interview that he'd planned ten members joining Luffy from the beginning. Both sketches show eight of those ten. We assume Jinbe is the ninth in both. Now, if you think it's possible the tenth planned member was not only not a female rabbit character like Carrot, but not even a woman and just yet another guy, then so be it. But I'm convinced he would not have made Nami the only lady at any point.
Like the Avatar? / Like the Miis?
Dragalia Lost ID: 97617932505
We're on the same page of Carrot being the clear choice. So don't you think a female rabbit character like Carrot would have been planned out all along? I mean, if the second female wasn't originally Robin, it could easily have been Carrot that was erased from the book.
Like the Avatar? / Like the Miis?
Dragalia Lost ID: 97617932505
hehe the small one looking like that old pervert from Ranma 1/2
We're on the same page of Carrot being the clear choice. So don't you think a female rabbit character like Carrot would have been planned out all along? I mean, if the second female wasn't originally Robin, it could easily have been Carrot that was erased from the book.
Nope.
I think Oda is making a lot of this up as he goes along. Famously, Vivi was just going to be a Baroque works officer and it was only on the way to Whisky peak that Oda thought up the whole princess plot, that's why her design looks so villainous when we first see her.
But in terms of the crew, as you said Robin was a last minute addition. Franky was designed with Mr 2's voice actor in mind, so too much of his design can't have been set in stone from the start. Especially since the original shipwright was a small fishman. The plant guy got dropped completely and turned into a powerup for Usopp. Brook's original design involved a cowboy hat, so when that was changed, Yorki had to be invented out of thin air in order to explain who the guy with the cowboy hat was in Crocus' flashback. Jimbei just wasn't present at all in those crew sketches, and his original sketches (along with what Yosaku tells us about him) made him out to be more villainous than he turned out to be. Also I doubt that Oda would have two fishmen on the crew.
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So I think Oda sketched out a few initial ideas but left himself a lot of leeway for crewmates that would strike his fancy later on.
Purely coincidence
