We know damn near nothing about Bonney though. I'm still not even sure what role she'll play in the story since her situation is so vague and flexible.
Next Strawhat Crewmate (Vol. 6)
-
-
This is ridiculous.
I'm saying to you that we already had this discussion.
I already wrote why to me Carrot being in the crow nest means nothing. Go to pp. 1134 ff. if you don't believe me and look at my posts. And look also at Galaxy posts while you're at it. And I'm 100% sure that before that the point was already been discussed more than once.This Carrot is a lookout thing hasn't been handled like the other SH roles in the crew have been. Look at Jinbe in the same arc.
There hasn't been any storyline or big moment or chapter or even just half a chapter dedicated only to it, and the panels you keep posting are far from those things.
It's not something she's been shown excelling at any more than any of the other characters that in the past holded a pair of binoculars or shouted that there's an enemy somewhere or stayed in the crow's nest.
She is a mink that jumps high and it is unexceptional to put her in the crow's nest when Usopp is in Wano.
Other characters have had this supposed lookout role in the same arc.These are our points. It's fine to disagree, but acting like pages of discussion never happened and claiming that nobody was ever able to explain your stuff and that all the arguments against it were just that lookout is an irrelevant position it's just bad.
BTW I'm not pointing out these things again because I think you are able to hold a discussion, and I already explained in my previous post why I don't think there's any reason to continue this, I'm just doing this because you called me a liar and after this I'm out of this mess.
The willful ignorance people have regarding Carrot and her positioning is so strange to me. I'm not saying you're ignorant, but why are you (and others) conveniently overlooking how many times Oda has placed her in that position? Those things are not mistakes. He's meticulous about details. You know that. It's just like how her first few panels showed her scouting abilities when, from a story perspective, it wasn't even needed. Ever since she asked for a job on the ship, she's been doing it. It's not about what people think is a valuable position or how well she's done it at this point.
She asked for the role and she's doing it. The fact that Oda has her sticking to it despite all that's happened is not a coincidence. If she's just a useless side character, why has he consistently shown her doing the same job? Why not just have her on deck with the rest of the SHs like every other person who's ever sailed with the SHs? Brook or Chopper being randomly placed up there with her doesn't change the fact that she's still been there.
Like I said, almost no one was the best at their role when they first joined, but I can fully see her asking to stay on in that role (after Wano) and growing into it. When it gets to the point where seeing anyone else in a role gets weird (like seeing anyone else in the crow's nest at this point), then it starts to mean something.
-
So do people consider Zeus a legitimate addition to the crew, or just as weapon/tool?
I put him on the same tier as the ship's den den mushi with the added utility of Zoro's swords (who apparently have minds of their own somewhat). In any case, he's not a full crewmember because he doesn't serve Luffy, he's specifically under Nami's command.
Purely coincidence
-
I will be treating Zeus as a member, but I'm not sure Oda will. "Sanji, you are arguing with water vapor" seems to already set the tone for the rest of the journey.
In general I'm slightly irritated how the homies were treated so far, especially with the weird rule established that you can't fuse a soul into humans, but very well into animals. Like animals are now officially on a lower level compared to humans (in the grand scheme of things), which is super weird to me when you have creatures like Lashes or Carue around.
And Zeus doesn't even have an animal base, so by that logic he's worth even less.
-
Can Zeus fight by himself against one of Blackbeard's Titan Captains, whonever them are? If not, then the answer is obvious.
-
Can Zeus fight by himself against one of Blackbeard's Titan Captains, whonever them are? If not, then the answer is obvious.
-
This is ridiculous.
I'm saying to you that we already had this discussion.
I already wrote why to me Carrot being in the crow nest means nothing. Go to pp. 1134 ff. if you don't believe me and look at my posts. And look also at Galaxy posts while you're at it. And I'm 100% sure that before that the point was already been discussed more than once.This Carrot is a lookout thing hasn't been handled like the other SH roles in the crew have been. Look at Jinbe in the same arc.
There hasn't been any storyline or big moment or chapter or even just half a chapter dedicated only to it, and the panels you keep posting are far from those things.
It's not something she's been shown excelling at any more than any of the other characters that in the past holded a pair of binoculars or shouted that there's an enemy somewhere or stayed in the crow's nest.
She is a mink that jumps high and it is unexceptional to put her in the crow's nest when Usopp is in Wano.
Other characters have had this supposed lookout role in the same arc.These are our points. It's fine to disagree, but acting like pages of discussion never happened and claiming that nobody was ever able to explain your stuff and that all the arguments against it were just that lookout is an irrelevant position it's just bad.
BTW I'm not pointing out these things again because I think you are able to hold a discussion, and I already explained in my previous post why I don't think there's any reason to continue this, I'm just doing this because you called me a liar and after this I'm out of this mess.
Amazing. You've managed to completely miss the point yet again.
All that text, and all the discussion on page 1134 has to do with Lookout being an irrelevant position, anyone being able to fill the position, Oda treating her differently, or Carrot not having a "what an amazing lookout!" moment (for me, her jumping half a mile in the air and amazing a strawhat in the process definitely counts). But that's not what I'm asking though.
None of that answers the question why is Oda putting her in the crow's nest this much?
- Lookout is an irrelevant position? Great! Why is Oda going out of his way to put panels of Carrot in this irrelevant position though?- Anyone can be lookout? Great! Why is she the only one to consistently be in that position though? Why haven't Brook and Chopper been rotating with her given the number of times she's been been down from the crow's nest? They've only been up there once and she was right there with them.
You've given plenty of reasons why you think her being in the crow's nest so much doesn't mean she'll join, but you haven't provided an explanation for why she's up there so much in the first place.
-
Silly Jabra. Horses can't be captains.
-
That's obviously Chopper's opponent though. A doctor of dubious morality along with an animal for him to talk to? That's just too perfect to be a coincidence.
-
I put him on the same tier as the ship's den den mushi with the added utility of Zoro's swords (who apparently have minds of their own somewhat). In any case, he's not a full crewmember because he doesn't serve Luffy, he's specifically under Nami's command.
How is he on the same tier as a den den mushi & some katanas? Den den mushi's don't usually display any personality of their own & are basically the same as machines. Zoro's swords do not have their own minds.
Zeus is essentially a human in cloud form. He's no different from everyone else on the ship.
In general I'm slightly irritated how the homies were treated so far, especially with the weird rule established that you can't fuse a soul into humans, but very well into animals. Like animals are now officially on a lower level compared to humans (in the grand scheme of things), which is super weird to me when you have creatures like Lashes or Carue around.
It makes sense that it doesn't work on humans. Infusing human souls into animals gives them human-like qualities. It makes them similar to the minks & chopper. What effect would that have on people who already have these qualities? Why would an animal soul do anything for a human? Lashes & Carue don't speak and they don't have intelligence comparable to a human.
-
How is he on the same tier as a den den mushi & some katanas? Den den mushi's don't usually display any personality of their own & are basically the same as machines. Zoro's swords do not have their own minds.
Zeus is essentially a human in cloud form. He's no different from everyone else on the ship.
Luffy did not even recruit him. He's a tool that Nami can use him at her disposal. Hell, Nami called him her slave when they captured him. There's a fundamental and distinct difference.
-
Zeus is essentially a human in cloud form. He's no different from everyone else on the ship.
And yet Brook thought Sanji was being stupid for arguing with water vapor. It's kind of how the droids are treated in Star Wars, they have personalities but they're treated as objects.
Also, he was excluded from the crew's reaction panel to Luffy's bounty even though he was right there, so Oda clearly doesn't see him as being all that integral to the crew.
Purely coincidence
-
Lashes & Carue don't have intelligence comparable to a human.
Neither does Zoro, but you still can't make a homie out of him.
-
None of that answers the question why is Oda putting her in the crow's nest this much?
She is a mink that jumps high and it is unexceptional to put her in the crow's nest
. .
-
She is a mink that jumps high and it is unexceptional to put her in the crow's nest.
I thought she was no better equipped to be lookout than anyone else? Isn't that another argument you've been saying?
But Carrot's advantage is only in jumping ridiculous heights. Brook and Chopper can also jump to the crow's nest, so I don't see how that argument works here.
Purely coincidence
-
We know damn near nothing about Bonney though. I'm still not even sure what role she'll play in the story since her situation is so vague and flexible.
I'd probably be considering Bonney more if she had a devil fruit power that could be used creatively in combat. She has other stuff like being important to the government and a current run away that would make her easier to join than the rest of the Novas, but the devil fruit power kills that possibility.
-
I thought she was no better equipped to be lookout than anyone else? Isn't that another argument you've been saying?
She is a mink that jumps high and it is unexceptional to put her in the crow's nest when Usopp is in Wano.
But Carrot's advantage is only in jumping ridiculous heights. Brook and Chopper can also jump to the crow's nest, so I don't see how that argument works here.
I thought she was better equipped to be lookout than anyone else? Isn't that another argument you've been saying?
I already said I wasn't interested in this, I shoud've stopped already but I promise I'll stop now lol. Bye
-
I thought she was better equipped to be lookout than anyone else? Isn't that another argument you've been saying?
Her normal jumps make her a better lookout than Usopp, but there are several other strawhats that can get to the crow's nest as easily as her. Its her super jump that puts her over the top of everyone else.
I already said I wasn't interested in this, I shoud've stopped already but I promise I'll stop now lol. Bye
You're being such a drama queen, holy shit. You can stop commenting on an internet forum without announcing your departure.
-
I thought she was better equipped to be lookout than anyone else? Isn't that another argument you've been saying?
I already said I wasn't interested in this, I shoud've stopped already but I promise I'll stop now lol. Bye
Considering your current argument, it's probably for the best.
-
And yet Brook thought Sanji was being stupid for arguing with water vapor. It's kind of how the droids are treated in Star Wars, they have personalities but they're treated as objects.
Also, he was excluded from the crew's reaction panel to Luffy's bounty even though he was right there, so Oda clearly doesn't see him as being all that integral to the crew.
That scene with Sanji was comic relief. The Strawhats would never treat Zeus as a mere object. They treated a ship (going merry), an actual inanimate object, as a crew member & friend.
I don't think Zeus is a crew member in the same tier as the others, but by the extension of Nami he technically is one. Even Carue is considered an honorary member like Vivi. Luffy has asked a lot lf random things to be members, so if they aren't below joining the crew, why would Zeus be? Randolph was a homie & he was still listed as a BMP member.
Zeus just got here so his relationship with the SH's hasn't been developed yet.
Neither does Zoro, but you still can't make a homie out of him.
Huh?
Zoro is a human, why would he not have human intelligence? When animals & inanimate objects are made into homies, they become human-like. Zoro is already human. Think of choppers DF. Nothing would happen if a human were to eat it.
-
They treated a ship (going merry), an actual inanimate object, as a crew member & friend.
Merry had a soul, moved on its own, repaired itself, and could talk.
-
That scene with Sanji was comic relief. The Strawhats would never treat Zeus as a mere object.
Could you imagine Brook saying "you realize you're just talking to a fish right?" referring to Jimbei? Even as a joke that would be massively out of line. Luffy stepped in to defend Carrot and Chopper when Nami took issue with talking animals in Brulée's forest, but he didn't step in when Brook objectified (literally) Zeus.
They treated a ship (going merry), an actual inanimate object, as a crew member & friend.
And they're treating Zeus like a slave. They obviously have no respect for him.
Zeus just got here so his relationship with the SH's hasn't been developed yet.
Zeus will never have full relationships with the crew because he's going to be kept in Nami's climatact most of the time. He's an extension of Nami, not an entity onto himself.
-
Merry had a soul, moved on its own, repaired itself, and could talk.
The Sh's didn't originally know this though. This even further strengthens the argument that Zeus could be considered one of them & not a mere object since all of this applies to him.
@AvocadoInTheRain:Could you imagine Brook saying "you realize you're just talking to a fish right?" referring to Jimbei? Even as a joke that would be massively out of line. Luffy stepped in to defend Carrot and Chopper when Nami took issue with talking animals in Brulée's forest, but he didn't step in when Brook objectified (literally) Zeus.
The problem with this is that Jinbe isn't really "just a fish" and never was. He's a fish-like man but not the same as a regular fish. There's also a racist history behind treating fishman like regular fish. so the SH's would never go there. Zeus, on the other hand, is literally water vapor that was given a soul.
Luffy didn't "defend" chopper & carrot. He was just telling Nami that she shouldn't be surprised by human-like animals at this point considering that they're traveling with several of them.
Luffy would be the last person taking issue with anything like that since he literally thinks of Chopper as spare food. He was also shocked that Chopper could speak & walk on two legs in the beginning & then he decided to ask him to join instead of eating him after discovering this. That's also another point for Zeus now that I think about it.
And they're treating Zeus like a slave. They obviously have no respect for him.
He isn't being treated as a slave. He isn't being forced to to anything. He is acting of his own free will at this point.
Zeus will never have full relationships with the crew because he's going to be kept in Nami's climatact most of the time. He's an extension of Nami, not an entity onto himself.
What's your basis for this? I wasn't aware you were one of Oda's editors to speak so confidently about this lol. He is not an extension of Nami & he is his own being.
-
Considering your current argument, it's probably for the best.
She is a mink, minks jump high and live on trees, it's a quick connection, it's not different from putting someone with wings there. And I already posted a ton of reasons why to me it doesn't seem to be much more than that.
I honestly don't see what's so unreasonable about it, but I guess I get taunted so easily holy hell lol. -
He isn't being treated as a slave.
I legitimately don't know how the story can be any clearer about this.
She is a mink, minks jump high and live on trees,
Minks live in a city. The treehouses were the emergency shelter they went into after their city got attacked. Brook and Chopper can also easily jump up to the crow's nest, so you're left with no reason for why Brook and Chopper didn't go up the crow's nest as much as Carrot.
Purely coincidence
-
The Sh's didn't originally know this though. This even further strengthens the argument that Zeus could be considered one of them & not a mere object since all of this applies to him.
The problem with this is that Jinbe isn't really "just a fish" and never was. He's a fish-like man but not the same as a regular fish. There's also a racist history behind treating fishman like regular fish. so the SH's would never go there. Zeus, on the other hand, is literally water vapor that was given a soul.
Luffy didn't "defend" chopper & carrot. He was just telling Nami that she shouldn't be surprised by human-like animals at this point considering that they're traveling with several of them.
I agree with most of your post expect this=
Luffy would be the last person taking issue with anything like that since he literally thinks of Chopper as spare food. He was also shocked that Chopper could speak & walk on two legs in the beginning & then he decided to ask him to join instead of eating him after discovering this. That's also another point for Zeus now that I think about it.
Luffy only thought of Chopper as food when they first met and he was starving at Drum Island. He never thought of him as 'spare food' and certainly not currently as the word 'thinks' suggest. Later Luffy never again thought of Chopper as food, it was Sanji who thought of Chopper as the "emergency food supply" but is no longer serious about it, only jokes about it.
-
to me, it's clear enough that Jinbe is now part of the crew…
unless Oda has something bad planned for Jinbe before he actually gets to be on the ship..the other one is clearly Carrot, i already see her as a crewmember anyway...
she left Zou, because she wanted to go out to sea...
she fits nicely with the crew , and is def. pretty strong, and agile, etc...
there is no point in dropping her back off at Zou after the whole Kaido story.. -
there is no point in dropping her back off at Zou after the whole Kaido story.
No no, see, she's only temporary. Oda decided to add a third mink to the WCI crew because… er... He felt like it?
Purely coincidence
-
Wait for Zolo to get talking sword in Wano.
-
Can the sword be voiced by Gilbert Gottfried?
-
@uniaka:
Wait for Zolo to get talking sword in Wano.
This isn't too crazy.
We know his sandai kitetsu is cursed. Maybe the curse gets more powerful for the stronger ones. Ichidai might be straight-up possessed. Although the standing theory is that the Ghandi gorosei currently has it.
Purely coincidence
-
Every nation gets the government it deserves.–-- Joseph de Maistre
-
What's your basis for this? I wasn't aware you were one of Oda's editors to speak so confidently about this lol. He is not an extension of Nami & he is his own being.
You dont need to be part of the staff to see the obvious.
Zeus has no dreams or role in the ship to fill and he will most likely disappear if Big Mom die.
Seriousky, he is no different from what Franky Shogun is for Franky, except being a more pratical arsenal.
-
No no, see, she's only temporary. Oda decided to add a third mink to the WCI crew because… er... He felt like it?
No, no, see, she's only there for furry fanservice. She's just an irrelevant character that will go away when we reach Wano…right?
-
Honestly, concerning Zoro. Unlike what Sanji is saying about him and the running-gags about Zoro having no sense of orientation–-- well, he's not stupid at all.
Of course he's stupid. What people usually mistake for "intelligent moments" is his insane battle instinct. Luffy also has plenty of these brilliant moments, yet he's also a monkey in every way.
Hell, I remember people here having lengthy discussions about whether Zoro is an illliterate or not because he had issues understanding Luffy's simple timeskip message
!
But since then it was proven that he can in fact read. He's just… not very smart. And that's okay, people are different, the Straw Hats are different. He has other qualities.
Anyway, the point is that at least Carue is basically human-level sentient and intelligent, he just doesn't have the means to articulate his thoughts through speech. I just find it an odd move from Oda to establish the rule that animals can be enhanced through souls, but humans can not. Like animals have no soul, or an inferior soul, that's why it works.
For me it just clashes with his general portrayal of animals, especially when we think of Lashes, Carue or even the Southbird. -
This isn't too crazy.
We know his sandai kitetsu is cursed. Maybe the curse gets more powerful for the stronger ones. Ichidai might be straight-up possessed. Although the standing theory is that the Ghandi gorosei currently has it.
Zoro has talked as if the cursed sword has a personality, hasn't he? At least in early days when he first got it and back on Thriller Bark… think it was when He was paying respect to the monument to the Rumbar Pirates at the end of the arc. could be I was remembering that one wrong and thinking of when he 'buried' that one sword that one captain destroyed by rusting it (back in Enies lobby)
-
Zoro is not stupid, he's just not book smart. Intelligence is something way more complex and varied than solving Rubik's Cubes.
-
Ok, the soul fruit only interacts with human souls, and no two human souls can inhabit the same thing, except within the user.
Done.
It isn't about the animals having souls or not, is that human souls can't coexist.
And I'm using human as in "one piece human" that includes island dwellers, sky island people, merfolk, fishfolk, minkfolk, giantfolk, longarms, longlegs, snakenecks, 3 eyed tribe, and until some disturbing fanfic or implications, dwarves. They can breed and their offsprings can breed? One species.
-
I legitimately don't know how the story can be any clearer about this.
Different translations say servant (it's also the most accurate term).
You do realize that Nami cannot realistically make him a slave, right? Nothing's stopping him from leaving & he can obliterate her with ease & disobey any order if he felt like it.
Luffy only thought of Chopper as food when they first met and he was starving at Drum Island. He never thought of him as 'spare food' and certainly not currently as the word 'thinks' suggest. Later Luffy never again thought of Chopper as food, it was Sanji who thought of Chopper as the "emergency food supply" but is no longer serious about it, only jokes about it.
You dont need to be part of the staff to see the obvious.
Zeus has no dreams or role in the ship to fill and he will most likely disappear if Big Mom die.
Seriousky, he is no different from what Franky Shogun is for Franky, except being a more pratical arsenal.
-
-Jinbe doesn't have his own personal dream
-His role is Nami's weapon
-There's no reason to assume that he would disappear if something happened to BM nor is there any reason to assume she'll die. -
Franky shogun is an inanimate object.
-
-
I see… This still is kicking and alive
-
Zeus is like Lassoo or funkfreed. Zeus is new nakama same way lassoo was baroque works agent, or funkfreed was CP9 agent.
-
Different translations say servant (it's also the most accurate term).
You do realize that Nami cannot realistically make him a slave, right? Nothing's stopping him from leaving & he can obliterate her with ease & disobey any order if he felt like it.
-
-Jinbe doesn't have his own personal dream
-His role is Nami's weapon
-There's no reason to assume that he would disappear if something happened to BM nor is there any reason to assume she'll die. -
Franky shogun is an inanimate object.
That is actually hilarious that Chopper still gets called that, I forgot all about that.
And Jinbe does have a dream.
-
-
Different translations say servant (it's also the most accurate term).
You do realize that Nami cannot realistically make him a slave, right? Nothing's stopping him from leaving & he can obliterate her with ease & disobey any order if he felt like it.
Whether "slave" or "servant" is a more accurate translation doesn't matter, she's threatening him with death if he doesn't do what she wants and Zeus is quivering in fear of her. That's pretty much the definition of slavery. Also, are you really expecting me to buy that Nami, the weather witch, can't deal with a cloud? She can make him dissipate just as easily as she can make him bigger, or make him discharge. The main reason she's keeping him, is that she can manipulate him really well with her climatact.
Purely coincidence
-
Different translations say servant (it's also the most accurate term).
You do realize that Nami cannot realistically make him a slave, right? Nothing's stopping him from leaving & he can obliterate her with ease & disobey any order if he felt like it.
-
-Jinbe doesn't have his own personal dream
-His role is Nami's weapon
-There's no reason to assume that he would disappear if something happened to BM nor is there any reason to assume she'll die. -
Franky shogun is an inanimate object.
WTF .. I somehow missed missed this page and Luffy calling Chopper that! But what gets me is… what happened to the Aquarium? Isn't its function is to hold fish as a food source????
-
-
WTF .. I somehow missed missed this page and Luffy calling Chopper that! But what gets me is… what happened to the Aquarium? Isn't its function is to hold fish as a food source????
Presumably the aquarium fish were used up by that point.
Jinbe better join soon so they don't run into this problem again. Just take a bath in that tartar sauce right over there.
-
what happened to the Aquarium? Isn't its function is to hold fish as a food source????
There were lots of fishbones in Luffy's kitchen sink curry.
Purely coincidence
-
Presumably the aquarium fish were used up by that point.
Jinbe better join soon so they don't run into this problem again. Just take a bath in that tartar sauce right over there.
There were lots of fishbones in Luffy's kitchen sink curry.
So Luffy used the entire stock in his wasted effort? No wonder Sanji & Nami are the ones to control supplies for the kitcken (Nami= finance, Sanji= main/only one to cook)
-
Whether "slave" or "servant" is a more accurate translation doesn't matter, she's threatening him with death if he doesn't do what she wants and Zeus is quivering in fear of her. That's pretty much the definition of slavery.
- Of course it matters.
"Servant differs from slave, as the servant's subjection to a master is voluntary, the slave's is not."
- Nami threatening characters as they quiver in fear has literally been an on-going gag since the beginning of the series
Also, are you really expecting me to buy that Nami, the weather witch, can't deal with a cloud? She can make him dissipate just as easily as she can make him bigger, or make him discharge. The main reason she's keeping him, is that she can manipulate him really well with her climatact.
And you're assuming she can do this why?
If it were realy possible for her to perform such a feat then she would have done it when Big Mom was chasing them.
@Blissed:And Jinbe does have a dream.
There has never been one that he specifically outlined or emphasized.
-
There has never been one that he specifically outlined or emphasized.
He basically did just that in the WCI arc when we first saw him speak to his former crew.
-
- Of course it matters.
"Servant differs from slave, as the servant's subjection to a master is voluntary, the slave's is not."
"Do this or die" doesn't sound voluntary to me.
- Nami threatening characters as they quiver in fear has literally been an on-going gag since the beginning of the series
It doesn't seem like she's joking around this time. Zeus is literally her tool now.
And you're assuming she can do this why?
If it were realy possible for her to perform such a feat then she would have done it when Big Mom was chasing them.
Dude, she already used her climatact to manipulate Zeus twice while BM was chasing the group (physically manipulate, not just psychologically). Chapters 875 and 890. She's the one who made Zeus really small in the first place, he wasn't strong enough to do anything in that state. And even if he attacks her, she can redirect lightning, so Zeus can't do much against her.
Prometheus is still fire and has the properties of fire. Zeus is still a cloud and has the properties of a cloud. Nami can control clouds with her climatact. It's that simple.
Purely coincidence
