@.access:
I think that's why I particularly like Count Mario posts even though I skip the most lengthy ones. He seems one of the extremely rare cases of users who engage on discussions because they seem to have lots of fun doing that, not because he is trying to come out as the right one. Just to throw some positivity in this post
@Long:
People like count never have nothered me though he's generally super low on carrot, but the writing style of others sometimes tends to come off as condescending and implied belittling. Im not talking about 2 sentences of snark occasionally either but people who operate with 100% certainty and look at anyone opposed to them as gullible or blind fools.
Heck even if you state you dont think it'll happen sometimes you get shamed for thinking there's any chance at all
I completely agree that the point of these discussions is to have fun above all else. Access made a great post and I'm glad that my opinions seem to be valued, even when I can easily get ahead of myself now and then or be ultra nitpicky/pedantic. That's quite heartwarming to hear, actually.
I happen find the most fun in talking about what has a good chance of happening in the manga and feel the most satisfaction from a analyzing and appreciating the craft of my favorite fictional series. But that does not mean I'm not game for talking about possibilities in general. It's just that a lot of the discussions on here are about what will definitively happen instead of merely what could be interesting on an arbitrary hypothetical level. I don't mind ever talking about why Caesar's mad scientist personality/skills entertain me and how I wish he could be a main character if he wasn't a complete scumbag who made weapons of massed destruction poisoned children without remorse who will never join the crew.
I have cracked jokes about Carrot joining the crew when the opportunity arises when debates aren't going on, and have a had a lot of fun doing so lol. But I never mean any ill will or condescension towards her supporters by it. I apologize if anybody ever got that impression. I have always tried my best to respect and constructively criticize opposing arguments without getting petty or personal. Not only because of basic human decency, but I want to know if I am missing something or have a flawed way of thinking.
I still believe Carrot has no chance, but I do think she isn't as bad a choice that people have brought up alongside the likes of Monet, Perona, and Wicca. I can admit that she has a bit more going for her plot-wise than only being a female, although I do feel that still does play a role in the support she's gotten since I have seen many people say that her personality/backstory stands out from Nami and Robin as fellow females even though it is derivative of Chopper, Luffy, and Zoro, let alone design/power wise with Chopper, Sanji, and Nami. Along with her overall lack of screen time and plot relevance.
@Shift:
Yeah, I can tell that I need to take a step back from this thread. It’s way too easy to start treating myself like a victim. Sorry…
It's cool. Feel free to take a break if you feel like a debate is stressing you out too much. There's no shame in that when the topic is about a manga with a rubber pirate. Like Martin has said, you have been very polite as a devil's advocate and the logic of your argument and evidence is coherent. You are looking in the right direction and not out of biased whims. The critiques of myself and others come from applying qualitative standards and consistency in comparing Carrot to other Straw Hats and other major arc supporting characters.
@Koliber:
Did SHs have anyone with no fighting capabilities? No. She'd fill her own niche, th only problem would be her fashion designer postion ovrlapping with Usopp's artism, but that's a bit like Zoro's swordmanship vs Brook's fencing for me. She was a solid candidate.
On a more serious note, I find Caime's (also Hachi's and Pappug's) treatment in FI arc quite weird. You set up three out of four characters characters to reappear in an arc ~100 chapters earlier, have them play a major role in the arc they're in, and in the actual FI they're background characters (Hachi got a little bit of focus at the beginning, but it didn't matter at allt in the long run). Who even does that? It's not like Oda ever had any problem incorporating non-fighter in his story.
Wouldn't that just be a detriment to Caime's potential for joining? Lacking something major the rest of the crew does in how they are unique as main characters makes her look like she should be a side character. Unless they are missing a body part that makes them stand out design-wise compared to their race like Shanks. Even Nami had her own distinct way of fighting with a staff/billy clubs since her debut even if she didn't get a fight until Alabasta. Being a fashion designer also doesn't contribute anything to the crew unless they need to put on disguises, but that is made redundant by how everybody already switches clothes in-between each arc. At least Brook being the musician is something that is still pirate-y. Every crew position is something that belongs in what comes to mind of what a classic pirate adventure is like, even Robin's distinct archeologist profession. Filling your own niche in whatever random talent you happen to have isn't exactly enough. An artist can go somewhere, but like you mentioned, Usopp is already an artist and such a character should have really been the one to make the crew's Jolly Roger.
That only sounds like Caime, Hachi, and Pappug were Conis and Margaret on a larger scale. The same way that Pedro is Pell and Mr. 2 on a larger plot relevant scale (although Mr. 2 is debatable).
@Blissed:
I mean, it's of no consequence to me what the last position ends up being, I just hear helmsman and lookout the most. If you have other ideas as to what role the last crew member could take, I'd actually like to hear them, as it'd be nice to keep it in mind when new (or old I guess) characters show up.
As for other characters seemingly being more suited, I mean sure I guess, but at the end of the day, Oda doesn't have Usopp or the rest take on the role for whatever reason. I keep hearing Usopp, but it's Zoro up there instead. Additionally, if it really matters, Carrot has displayed that she's pretty perceptive, in a way that is somewhat reminiscent of Haki, regarding her brief scuffle with Randolph, so meh. Not at all a hill to die on for me personally, but I can see it nonetheless if Oda wanted to go there, even be "flashy", just like with Jinbe and being a helmsman.
I agree that I never necessarily saw it as this imperative position, but the same went for the helmsman position; always figured that the last two positions, whatever they'd be, would come across as being more superfluous. Although of course helmsman is in a much better position than the lookout position, as Oda can of course make it relevant whenever he wants, since the New World is supposed to be this crazy place as far as its seas go.
Carrot's fight against Randolph didn't stand out at all. Much in the same way her two second scuffle with Zoro didn't aside from her double-jumping to dodge like in a video game, which is something that other Minks have done on-panel as well.
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Additionally, I just found a page where Pedro and Carrot switch shifts in being the lookout. Indicating that Carrot isn't specially suited to the role in any way, she does it just because anybody can do it and she's a spare person if everybody else is busy.
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Carrot only stood out in one moment in regards to a Lookout position, but like what has already been said, it's nothing that Usopp and other Observation Haki users can't already do if they are properly informed of their surrounding region. Just because Usopp isn't a lookout does not mean another crewmember is going to get that position even if they might do an inferior job at it compared to him.
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Oh, Usopp was the lookout on the way to Jaya. And as part of a scene juxtaposition to directly hype up how far ahead his final opponent in the series can both see and snipe. That kind of puts a dent into the possibility of Oda thinking a Straw Hat will be more specialized for a job like Lookout than Usopp would if the position was needed.
Personally, I never saw Oda throwing Jimbei onto the helmsman position just to give him something to do as an afterthought. Even if his flashback and dream seem to have nothing to do with helming ships, I always figured that he would still be a helmsman in a unique way that other crewmates could not replicate. Especially when he specifically showed Luffy and Brook sucking at helming the ship. He has had experiences underwater and making waves, as well as mastering Fishman Karate and summoning whale sharks.
@Jazzy:
If I'm going to be realistic about it (and I swear I'm not just being biased towards Vivi here) then Staff Officer is about the only position left that's actually viable. The only other one could be Cabin Boy but then, I'd think that's more of an EoS position rather than for the main journey considering not even Roger had that position on his crew until after he became Pirate King. Staff Officer is something that has existed since as far back as Cabaji in the Buggy Pirates and as recently as Gambia in the Barto Club.
It would make sense being the last position since we would then have a core crew of 11 people, the Straw Hat Grand Fleet and the alliances of the Straw Hats as well as whatever territory they end up getting too (we know FI will at least be one of them). That's the only position that has appeared consistently throughout the series that hasn't yet been filled.
Otherwise, it'll be something completely new. In regards to that… I don't know. The question would have to be, does Oda want to follow through on the already established precedent or does he want to introduce a brand new position? I guess either way, it doesn't matter too much.
Staff Officer faces the same problem that both Vice Captain and Cabin Boy have (aside from the fact that Luffy probably won't accept kinds below their teenage years into the crew in the same way Shanks did). Even though we have seen these positions in other crews, they focus on ranks of leadership rather than actual talents and specialized professions beyond merely barking orders. They also go against how the Straw Hats, in spite of Luffy being the captain, viewing each other as equals with familial-esque bonds. Luffy himself doesn't even want to be looked at as a boss, hence why he told the Grand Fleet to buzz off and do what they want. The most you will get on a leadership front is Luffy actually acting like a captain during tense situations, Zoro putting his foot down when the crew's pride is on the line, Nami on a regular ship sailing basis, and now Jimbei as a respected diplomatic tactician.
It will probably be an unconventional position like Archaeologist. Which I embraced wholeheartedly because it fits well with how pirate adventures can focus a lot on deciphering old ruins and finding lost civilizations. Musician is also rather unconventional and is only allowed in because of the stereotype of pirates singing songs.
@KageKageKing:
Technically Nami was a non-fighter for like over 100 chapters.
Nami actually had a staff/billy clubs, as well as sneaking tactics that helped Luffy defeat Buggy by tying him up. She could fight, she just didn't get any fights and mostly acted as support.
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@Long:
The whole debate can be summed up with "lets talk about the best candidate currently even if they're unlikely" vs " the best candidate currently has no shot, why bother considering them seriously"
Pretty much.
The face of a Straw Hat.
