Being nice doesn't mean being weak!
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Being nice doesn't mean being weak!
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Being nice doesn't mean being weak!
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She was clearly made to appear weak to the strawhats with her eyes all swirled like that and holding the knife out, she presemted herself to them as someone who didnt have much confidence in her fighting ability / chance to escape them. Whether she was faking or not is up to debate but for now it doesnt look like she is that strong. Maybe she's got that secret strength she doesnt know about or something butI think she wont be a fighting person, unless she was acting all along.
I ain't talking about her per se, I'm talking in general.
Being nice does not mean being weak!
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I ain't talking about her per se, I'm talking in general.
Being nice does not mean being weak!
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Oh yeah I can agree with that, I didnt know if you were referrring to what I said
1) I can't say with any certainty what all Momo would gain from traveling with the crew. But if nothing else, his main reason for joining would be to learn to read Poneglyphs.
That's Robin's dream. Why would we repeat a dream.
2 & 6) His dad was a Daimyo.
Daimyo's are vassals to a ruler, they are not rulers themselves. The main point being that absolutely nothing whatsoever about being a Daimyo or Shogun has anything to do with Poneglyphs. It does not connect to a dream of becoming shogun.
Oda pointed out the connection between that clan and the Poneglyphs, and what a tragedy it is that the ability to read/write that text wasn't passed on to Momo. He wouldn't be a proper successor if he couldn't do that. As far as we know, Robin is the only one capable of teaching him.
So what are you saying his dream is? To become the Shogun or to learn about Poneglyphs. Pick one.
Also show where he expressed passionate regret about not knowing how to read them. Really though what would even be the point of that dream. Momo isn't going to create any Poneglyphs, he also has no reason to read them. Their purpose is to communicate to people about the Lost Century, they've already been made, the people who had Momo's ancestors make them are gone and dead, and Robin is the one accomplishing the feat of stringing together their messages.
The only way Momo could have any relevance about them would be to also want to string together their message, but that would be the same exact dream as Robin. So its not happening.
3 & 4) Those dots can easily be connected now that we are looking back at them,
For Usopp? hahahaha no. I don't think you understand at all what I'm saying there if that's your response.
Adventure stories require everymen to function best, this was true LONG before Oda came along. It was inevitable that a less talented goof who reacts to the circumstances more like a real person would have to be introduced to the crew. Luffy doesn't provide that role, which usually the protagonist in adventure stories does. Luffy is no Frodo or Luke Skywalker, he's already brave and strong. And doesn't act as an audience surrogate.
Usopp provides that more human weakness. Anyone who knows anything about stories knew such a character would come along.
As for Robin, yes its in retrospect. And whats your point? Are you implying that actually Cabin Boy will be central to the plot? Because I'd love to hear the logic on that one!
Meanwhile they aren't remotely comparable in the first place.
Archaeologist may not have indicated her importance, but it was a strange and somewhat mysterious position on the crew to have. Meaning it made us wonder what Oda was thinking.
Unlike….cabin boy lol.
Also Robin filled a niche in the crew immediately of being sort of the scholar aboard, having lots of knowledge about stuff and world events that the others are unaware of.
Can you think of anything Momo would bring to the crew dynamics wise that is new?
but it would have been ludicrous to suggest Robin for new SH while the Alabasta arc was taking place
Whats your point? How does this help your theory?
At Syrup Village, even though it might have been evident that Usopp would join, you wouldn't have said, "What the crew needs is someone who lies a lot." His sniping skills weren't proven yet.
So did you actually not read my post? Because I didn't say Usopp was necessary because of those things. But because of an important character role he plays.
5) Everyone has a sailing related responsibility that they do (captain, first mate, navigator, gunner, cook, doctor, archeologist [whom I assume also keeps the ships log], shipwright, and musician).
That or they have an important character role for the crew dynamic. Zoro's role as first mate and Usopp's role as sniper really aren't all that relevant. But their character roles are extremely important. Zoro is sort of the steel spine of the crew, performing a sort of stabilizing role in certain ways. The unmovable resolve and more serious edge that acts opposite the goofier elements. Usopp I already described.
Through this Jimbei's purpose is more clear, he's joining in the classic sense of a former boss adversary, bringing his esteemed reputation and former world role into the influence of Luffy, as well as his role as an important element of species diversity.
What I'm saying by bringing these up is that you need to provide that for Momo, since you have no real point with "cabin boy".
New crew members would likewise be responsible for fulfill some type of sailing related job as well. It would be lame if Jinbei was only there to be a tough guy.
That's not what anyone has described his role as. "Tough guy" is more Zoro's role.
A kid like Momo, the only role he could play on a ship is cabin boy.
Making him a very unlikely person to join the crew.
Imho, those would be the be best positions for them.
Wait that's it? You're just saying "that's all Momo could do". Then why do you think he will join?
The thing with Momo is that if he joins at least 1 of his retainers have to go as well, because he is so young, and he still needs to be taught other things besides the Poneglyph. Reading the Poneglyph won't make him a better ruler. On the other hand, I always thought that Kinemon would be a good candidate. I mean common, the man can speak with farts, besides the hilarious outfits he could give the crew with his ability. However, that was a hard option with his son in the way(I made many Fire/dragon/father/son remarks on the subject). But now that he is just a retainer, he could be sent to learn about the world/history while he stays with Catviper and Dog (actual rulers) and learn about governance. Unless of course the liberation of Wano fails. I mean I think if the story is going add some salsa then Luffy will fail at something again. Wano's liberation could be pushed back to the final war.
I think it would be funny if the three, Kinemon, Kanjuro and Raizo join. I think it would be too funny, I don't have evidence for it, just what I would like to see.
@Tamiel:
The thing with Momo is that if he joins at least 1 of his retainers have to go as well, because he is so young, and he still needs to be taught other things besides the Poneglyph. Reading the Poneglyph won't make him a better ruler. On the other hand, I always thought that Kinemon would be a good candidate. I mean common, the man can speak with farts, besides the hilarious outfits he could give the crew with his ability. However, that was a hard option with his son in the way(I made many Fire/dragon/father/son remarks on the subject). But now that he is just a retainer, he could be sent to learn about the world/history while he stays with Catviper and Dog (actual rulers) and learn about governance. Unless of course the liberation of Wano fails. I mean I think if the story is going add some salsa then Luffy will fail at something again. Wano's liberation could be pushed back to the final war.
I think it would be funny if the three, Kinemon, Kanjuro and Raizo join. I think it would be too funny, I don't have evidence for it, just what I would like to see.
The main problem with Kin'emon, though, is that we already have two swordsmen on the crew. It works because Zoro's and Brook's sword styles are pretty different, but after a while, I feel like it would get kind of redundant. Also, seeing as how Kin'emon is essentially a surrogate father to Momonosuke now that Oden's gone, he seems way too devoted to Momo to leave him.
The main problem with Kin'emon, though, is that we already have two swordsmen on the crew. It works because Zoro's and Brook's sword styles are pretty different, but after a while, I feel like it would get kind of redundant. Also, seeing as how Kin'emon is essentially a surrogate father to Momonosuke now that Oden's gone, he seems way too devoted to Momo to leave him.
Very true, but all of his retainers can act like that either way. Also, the fact that Kinemon's devil fruit has not been identified, once he realizes the full potential of his fruit it could evolve his fighting style.
@Long:
She was clearly made to appear weak to the strawhats with her eyes all swirled like that and holding the knife out, she presemted herself to them as someone who didnt have much confidence in her fighting ability / chance to escape them.
Usopp and Chopper does that all the time.
Usopp and Chopper does that all the time.
Yeah but we know how strong they are. As we dont know much about pudding she's being portrayed as weak. Either that she doesnt have a lot of strength relative to the crew or she was feigning weakness
The main problem with Kin'emon, though, is that we already have two swordsmen on the crew.
The crew already has 4 bare handed fighters, 5 if Jinbe joins. 6 if you count Franky sometimes only punching stuff.
Swords are an extremely common weapon to the point that most fighters in the series have been seen using them, including most of the admirals. Even Luffy picked up and used swords a few times.
@Jazzy:
Just a nitpick, Chopper was 15 when he joined and is now 17.
Doesn't detract from any of your points though.
Chopper is a animal though so he has animal years lol.
–- Update From New Post Merge ---
The next two crew members will be Jinbei and Momonosuke! I'd bet any and everything on it.
Momo is weaker and younger than when Shanks/Buggy joined the roger pirates you seem to forget this is the new world Shanks did not want to take luffy the future pirate king with him since he knew from his own cabin boy days that it's not like taking a dog for a walk in the park since it's like being in the army/navy and taking your kid to work with you during a war lol!
Yeah, a cabin boy position is sorely missed on Sunny. Just think of all the duties Momo could do instead of running a country. Folding sheets, scrubbing the deck, keeping the bathroom clean, peeling potatoes…
Except he would not do any cabin boy duties and just take baths with nami/robin most useless cabin boy ever lol.
Like you said he will not be a main member plus he does not need robin to teach no how to read ponyglyphs since he has the voice of all things like roger he does not need to read ponyglyphs
The crew already has 4 bare handed fighters, 5 if Jinbe joins. 6 if you count Franky sometimes only punching stuff.
Swords are an extremely common weapon to the point that most fighters in the series have been seen using them, including most of the admirals. Even Luffy picked up and used swords a few times.
if we get another swordman then he will most likely use 2 swords or we will get swordwoman you can even change it around by having someone with a devil fruit weapon lol.
Momo's dream hasn't been clearly stated yet, and I'm not speculating on that. Neither am I saying he wants to learn to history of the void century the way Robin does. I'm only saying he needs to learn to read and write the Poneglyphs as his father did, and Robin would be the go to person for that. They talk about how unfortunate it is that he never learned from his father right here.
http://www.mangapanda.com/one-piece/818/14
Adventure stories might have an everyman, but thats not necessary for them to function. What they most often do is follow "the hero's journey." Frodo and Luke were the hero in the hero's journey. The audience connects most readily to the hero. Unless that everyman is the hero, they might bring a sense of realism and relatability, but they aren't essential. Look at Krillin in DBZ. He would be the everyman and although he is my personal favorite character, he wasn't exactly essential for DBZ to function best. The hero's journey would refer to Usopp as the the trickster. By your definition of the "everyman," Chopper and Nami would fill that roll as well. They are "a less talented goof who reacts to the circumstances more like a real person would have."
I'm not implying that some cabin boy will be central to the plot any more than I'm saying some cook will be central to the plot. I'm saying Momo, whom I believe will be the SH cabin boy, can play a role in the plot the way Sanji, who is the SH cook, is playing his role. Its not their position on the ship, its the person in that position. I was just assigning them positions that made the most sense to me. For all I care, they can make Jinbei the cabin boy and Momo the ship.
My point on the retrospective analysis of Robin's importance is that we haven't had that luxury with Momo. We are looking at him now the same way we were looking at Robin during Alabasta. No one would have guessed how important she would be to the crew during that arc. Heck, until this year, who would have guesses she would be so vital to finding Raftel? We haven't spent enough time with Momo to fully flush out his role in the crew dynamic the way we have with everyone else. There have been plenty of people who wanted Jinbei to join just because the crew needed another strong fighter, which is what I meant by "tough guy." Its great that he is strong, but he needs to be more than just that. And I agree with your analysis of his role in the crew dynamic.
Momo has brought out personality traits in many of the crew members that we have not seen before. It adds something new to the table in a way that I think a new crew member should.
I will admit that the need for him to have a retainer is something that has to be overcome because honestly I don't see any of them joining as well. Maybe after they defeat Kaidou, the retainers trust the SHs to be able to protect him. To me, of all the people we have met so far, aside from Jinbei of course, he has the highest likelihood of being the next crew member.
PS: I wouldn't mind if Pudding joined too (^_^)
The main problem with Kin'emon, though, is that we already have two swordsmen on the crew. It works because Zoro's and Brook's sword styles are pretty different, but after a while, I feel like it would get kind of redundant. Also, seeing as how Kin'emon is essentially a surrogate father to Momonosuke now that Oden's gone, he seems way too devoted to Momo to leave him.
I disagree. I think the main problem with Kin'emon is that, although in Punk Hazard he appeared to us very unique and a nice candidate (or at least a new Vivi), when Kanjuurou and Raizou were introduced, it was apparent that Kin'emon was but a generic japanese guy, along with those 2. They form a sort of unseparable trio of Momo's retainers, kinda like how Cavendish and Barto formed a duo back in Dressrosa. It completely undermines any chance of Kin joining the main cast.
[hide]Momo's dream hasn't been clearly stated yet, and I'm not speculating on that. Neither am I saying he wants to learn to history of the void century the way Robin does. I'm only saying he needs to learn to read and write the Poneglyphs as his father did, and Robin would be the go to person for that. They talk about how unfortunate it is that he never learned from his father right here.
http://www.mangapanda.com/one-piece/818/14
Adventure stories might have an everyman, but thats not necessary for them to function. What they most often do is follow "the hero's journey." Frodo and Luke were the hero in the hero's journey. The audience connects most readily to the hero. Unless that everyman is the hero, they might bring a sense of realism and relatability, but they aren't essential. Look at Krillin in DBZ. He would be the everyman and although he is my personal favorite character, he wasn't exactly essential for DBZ to function best. The hero's journey would refer to Usopp as the the trickster. By your definition of the "everyman," Chopper and Nami would fill that roll as well. They are "a less talented goof who reacts to the circumstances more like a real person would have."I'm not implying that some cabin boy will be central to the plot any more than I'm saying some cook will be central to the plot. I'm saying Momo, whom I believe will be the SH cabin boy, can play a role in the plot the way Sanji, who is the SH cook, is playing his role. Its not their position on the ship, its the person in that position. I was just assigning them positions that made the most sense to me. For all I care, they can make Jinbei the cabin boy and Momo the ship.
My point on the retrospective analysis of Robin's importance is that we haven't had that luxury with Momo. We are looking at him now the same way we were looking at Robin during Alabasta. No one would have guessed how important she would be to the crew during that arc. Heck, until this year, who would have guesses she would be so vital to finding Raftel? We haven't spent enough time with Momo to fully flush out his role in the crew dynamic the way we have with everyone else. There have been plenty of people who wanted Jinbei to join just because the crew needed another strong fighter, which is what I meant by "tough guy." Its great that he is strong, but he needs to be more than just that. And I agree with your analysis of his role in the crew dynamic.
Momo has brought out personality traits in many of the crew members that we have not seen before. It adds something new to the table in a way that I think a new crew member should.
I will admit that the need for him to have a retainer is something that has to be overcome because honestly I don't see any of them joining as well. Maybe after they defeat Kaidou, the retainers trust the SHs to be able to protect him. To me, of all the people we have met so far, aside from Jinbei of course, he has the highest likelihood of being the next crew member.
PS: I wouldn't mind if Pudding joined too (^_^)
[/hide]
Every single SH is a capable fighter by themselves and the scenario of Oda breaking this comcept after 800+ chapters is impossible at this point. Heck, he even gave Nami a magic staff in Alabasta. There is a 11 against 11 big battle at the endgame on the horizon and Momo can't keep it up as he is.
Every single SH is a capable fighter by themselves and the scenario of Oda breaking this comcept after 800+ chapters is impossible at this point. Heck, he even gave Nami a magic staff in Alabasta. There is a 11 against 11 big battle at the endgame on the horizon and Momo can't keep it up as he is.
If Roger could become PK with a weak-ER Buggy on his crew, I think Luffy can do it with Momo on his. Don't ask me how though.
If Roger could become PK with a weak-ER Buggy on his crew, I think Luffy can do it with Momo on his. Don't ask me how though.
Luffy isn't Roger. He is not doing things like Roger. Roger had like a hundred guys and Luffy have currently 9. It is not that hard to understand.
Momo's dream hasn't been clearly stated yet, and I'm not speculating on that. Neither am I saying he wants to learn to history of the void century the way Robin does. I'm only saying he needs to learn to read and write the Poneglyphs as his father did, and Robin would be the go to person for that. They talk about how unfortunate it is that he never learned from his father right here.
The sadness they're showing there is because they're leading up to explaining that Momo's dad was killed. Its not about the Poneglyphs.
Also you avoided addressing my point that there's no reason for Momo to learn that stuff story wise anymore. His family line comes from Poneglyph smiths….and its not like he's going to build more.
Adventure stories might have an everyman, but thats not necessary for them to function.
To be halfway decent they need something like it.
They can still be tough guys (like Leorio in HxH) but they still need that more normal feel.
What they most often do is follow "the hero's journey."
That's protagonists. Who tend to be everymen, but not always.
Frodo and Luke were the hero in the hero's journey.
Yes, and also everymen (at first). These are separate things.
The audience connects most readily to the hero.
Not always. Luffy actually isn't really the easiest point of audience entry, in fact he's kind of impenetrable. He's easy to like and want to follow the adventures of, but he isn't even remotely an everyman.
Unless that everyman is the hero, they might bring a sense of realism and relatability, but they aren't essential.
Its essential to a good adventure. Someone needs to be more grounded.
Look at Krillin in DBZ. He would be the everyman and although he is my personal favorite character, he wasn't exactly essential for DBZ to function best.
Dragonball would be a lot crappier without him in the Saiyen and Namek parts. And he even was essential in the earliest parts of the story when he was Goku's training mate.
And he played even from the start a sort of Usopp like function since Goku was a lot like Luffy, sort of hard to get into the head of, and always always strong and brave.
The hero's journey would refer to Usopp as the the trickster.
Usopp is not a Trickster.
By your definition of the "everyman," Chopper and Nami would fill that roll as well.
Chopper kind of does, but in a very different way. He's defined more by innocence and being naive. Usopp isn't either of those, he is defined by more grounded weak reactions to things.
But both Chopper and Nami are specialists from the get go at the same time, with Usopp being one with poorly defined skills at the start.
Nami is also very strong and assertive half of the time, even sometimes behaving like the second in command.
They are a less talented goof who reacts to the circumstances more like a real person would have."
Chopper and Nami are enormously talented and the crew relies heavily on them constantly.
The defining factor of Nami's "joining" when she shows up is the basic ability of Luffy to actually purposefully reach islands lol.
I'm not implying that some cabin boy will be central to the plot any more than I'm saying some cook will be central to the plot. I'm saying Momo, whom I believe will be the SH cabin boy, can play a role in the plot the way Sanji, who is the SH cook, is playing his role. Its not their position on the ship, its the person in that position. I was just assigning them positions that made the most sense to me. For all I care, they can make Jinbei the cabin boy and Momo the ship.
What indication is there of Momo providing anything central to anything past Wano.
My point on the retrospective analysis of Robin's importance is that we haven't had that luxury with Momo.
We are looking at him now the same way we were looking at Robin during Alabasta. No one would have guessed how important she would be to the crew during that arc.What you're doing here is saying that because it was very hard to predict Robin as an important main cast member, we can't say that Momo might not secretly be an important main character.
….which is saying nothing at all. You're supposed to be providing reasons that Momo might be the next crewmate, this isn't a reason. Nor is it an argument against any points brought up. No one had said it's impossible for Momo to be the next crewmate, which is about the only argument this would address.
Heck, until this year, who would have guesses she would be so vital to finding Raftel?
Virtually everyone?
We knew Raftel was tied into the Poneglyphs as far back as Skypiea, from that moment on Raftel became less about a pirate treasure, and more about the lost century.We haven't spent enough time with Momo to fully flush out his role in the crew dynamic the way we have with everyone else.
Here again you're arguing from literally nothing but possibility.
Momo has brought out personality traits in many of the crew members that we have not seen before. It adds something new to the table in a way that I think a new crew member should.
Traits such as…
If Momo does indeed join the Strawhats (I doubt it), then he'll bring all three of his retainers (which would suck, quite honestly).
If Roger could become PK with a weak-ER Buggy on his crew, I think Luffy can do it with Momo on his. Don't ask me how though.
How?
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Having another member with a dream connected to the Poneglyph plotline would be like adding a second member interested in the All Blue or miracle cure. It's not happening.
pudding can't join cause we already have a cook
Momo for cabin boy to learn to be a strong Shogun is still one of the sillier arguments. What normal person would want a leader that cleaned up after pirates? That's like the least honorable thing he could be doing. Yes we know the Strawhats are "good guys" but they're criminals. Why risk letting him sail with epople who may wind up imprisoned?
Also let's not pretend child rulers weren't a thing. It's not horeibly outside the scope for Momo to take a seat of power at a young age. He's got Kinemon and the other two to help guide him. I'd be suprised if there weren't others in Wano to be advisors.
pudding can't join cause we already have a cook
That may be true but if you look back on all the food sanji makes you never see him do much baking
That may be true but if you look back on all the food sanji makes you never see him do much baking
Doesn't he constantly make desserts for the girls? And occasionally Chopper?
Doesn't he constantly make desserts for the girls? And occasionally Chopper?
I remember he made horror pear tarts for everyone on Thriller Bark, so even the guys get to eat his desserts sometimes.
What's next, a separate vegan cook?
I've never seen Sanji make pizza. They desperately need a pizza chef.
I wonder if Pekoms knows how to make them. Turtles really love pizza.
Luffy isn't Roger. He is not doing things like Roger. Roger had like a hundred guys and Luffy have currently 9. It is not that hard to understand.
Where was it ever stated that Roger had around 100 people in his crew? Yes he definitely had more than 9, but please show me proof that he had more than 20-30…not that I'm saying thats how many SHs there will end up being.
@Monkey:
The sadness they're showing there is because they're leading up to explaining that Momo's dad was killed. Its not about the Poneglyphs. Also you avoided addressing my point that there's no reason for Momo to learn that stuff story wise anymore. His family line comes from Poneglyph smiths….and its not like he's going to build more.
Why would Oden need to have known it at the time that he actually learned to read it? He must have learned before joining Roger's crew and I'm pretty sure it wasn't to learn the secrets of the void century. Obviously that knowledge is important to their clan and has been passed down for hundreds of years even AFTER all the poneglyphs were written. Oda could have easily skipped mentioning the misfortune of the knowledge not being passed on if it wasn't important.
@Monkey:
To be halfway decent they need something like it.
They can still be tough guys (like Leorio in HxH) but they still need that more normal feel.
@Monkey:
That's protagonists. Who tend to be everymen, but not always. Yes, and also everymen (at first). These are separate things.
You are simply describing the first part of the Monomyth, aka "The Hero's Journey," which most great stories follow. It refers to much more than just the protagonist. It is the collection of archetypes that you run into over the course of the story.
The Hero - This is the "average joe" who is the small fry and will have to overcome a lot. THEY are the ones that need to be an everyman, AT THE BEGINNING, so that the audience can relate to them. (Luffy, Luke, Frodo, Harry Potter, etc)
The Herald - person, place, or thing that starts the hero on their journey. (In Luffy's case, it was the idea that he was gonna be king of the pirates)
The Mentor - wise presence that guides the hero. (Shanks/Rayleigh/etc)
Threshold Guardians - gets in the hero's way until he proves his worth of progressing. (Arlong/Crocodile/Enel/Moria/Doflamingo/etc)
The Trickster - creates mischief, provides comic relief, sometimes sidekick. (**USOPP/**chopper/etc)
The Shape-shifter - someone who changes their roll in the story and may do so more than once. (Robin/Bonclay/Crocodile/possibly Big Mom:ninja:)
The Shadow - this is the ultimate villain. (Blackbeard, or Akainu, or The WG, we don't know for sure yet.)
@Monkey:
Luffy actually isn't really the easiest point of audience entry, in fact he's kind of impenetrable. He's easy to like and want to follow the adventures of, but he isn't even remotely an everyman. Its essential to a good adventure. Someone needs to be more grounded.
Whats essential isn't that there be someone to ground the story, its that the audience connects with, and routes for, the hero. If that doesn't happen, they will not enjoy his story no matter how many people ground it. Luffy may not be your favorite character, he certainly isn't mine, but I still connect with him as I'm sure EVERY reader does.
@Monkey:
Usopp is not a Trickster.
I think I've successfully proven that he falls under that category.
@Monkey:
What indication is there of Momo providing anything central to anything past Wano.
To me, the biggest indication is the chemistry he has with the crew. The traits he brings out in them are, turning Nami into a nurturer, Brook and Sanji into jealous/judgemental people, and Luffy into a bullying big brother kind of role. Except for Nami with the rest of the kids on Punk Hazard, we haven't seen those characteristics from those people before. I haven't seen enough of his interaction with the rest of the crew to get a handle of their relationships.
@Monkey:
What you're doing here is saying that because it was very hard to predict Robin as an important main cast member, we can't say that Momo might not secretly be an important main character.
….which is saying nothing at all. You're supposed to be providing reasons that Momo might be the next crewmate, this isn't a reason. Nor is it an argument against any points brought up. No one had said it's impossible for Momo to be the next crewmate, which is about the only argument this would address.
I've already stated my main reasons several times. 1) He has to learn to read the poneglyphs and Robin would be his teacher. 2) He brings out new character traits in the crew members in a way that someone who would be a new crew member should. Beyond that, all there is is possibilities, and its almost impossible to say for certain. We don't know where Oda will take the story so aside from "hints," and possibility, there isn't anything to go on.
My argument is that using 20/20 hindsight vision, you can state all the great facts why Robin was needed on the crew, but anyone claiming she would join during Alabasta would have only been able to say, "she saved Luffy after his first fight with Crocodile" as a valid reason. Which would have been HIGHLY contestable. All we can ever do before a character joins the crew is make educated guesses based on the hints that have been laid out. Hints that can be argued against. And it is much easier to argue than it is to argue for it. There are some counter arguments that I can't possibly defend against without making wild guesses as to whats going to happen in the future. I'm making a prediction based on hints given, rather than making baseless speculations as to where the story will go.
@Monkey:
Virtually everyone?
We knew Raftel was tied into the Poneglyphs as far back as Skypiea, from that moment on Raftel became less about a pirate treasure, and more about the lost century.
We knew that there would be information on Raftel about the void century and speculated that there might be a poneglyph there, but NO ONE would have guessed that you actually needed to use the poneglyphs as a roadmap to find Raftel in the first place.
@Monkey:
Here again you're arguing from literally nothing but possibility.
Bro, this whole thread is literally nothing but possibility. None of us know for sure who it will be. We are discussing why we think there a possibility, not a certainty, that such and such person will be the next straw hat. As I stated, I prefer to do so based on the hints given so far. There are questions such as, "What about his retainers," that can't be answered properly yet. I could say, "Kaidou will kill them all," but making a wild guess like that doesn't exactly help my prediction does it?
@Monkey:
Traits such as…
I listed the traits above. Please reread the end of Punk Hazard till when the crew separated again, and Zou. Tell me Brook, Sanji, Nami, and Luffy weren't showing slightly different sides of their personalities due to Momo.
Momo for cabin boy to learn to be a strong Shogun is still one of the sillier arguments. What normal person would want a leader that cleaned up after pirates? That's like the least honorable thing he could be doing. Yes we know the Strawhats are "good guys" but they're criminals. Why risk letting him sail with epople who may wind up imprisoned?
Also let's not pretend child rulers weren't a thing. It's not horeibly outside the scope for Momo to take a seat of power at a young age. He's got Kinemon and the other two to help guide him. I'd be suprised if there weren't others in Wano to be advisors.
I guess you've never heard of servant leadership. A great leader sees himself as a humble servant of his people. Jesus washed the feet of his disciples. Being a cabin boy would give Momo that kind of humility. And I don't think people would mind if it was the pirates that saved their country from a Yonkou.
Momo COULD very well take the seat of power at a young age and have great advisors. I'm just saying I see him becoming a SH instead.
How?
Don't you have a bridge to be guarding mr troll?
Lol. Wow. Jesus huh? Okay. I'm not trying to be rude. But your theories appear to be very off and your inability to see the logistics in bringing him make it hard to want to discuss this with you. Momo does not bring out the best in the crew. He makes 2 of them extra petty, another go a step further and is basically letting him do what he wants for supposed treasure. He causes more bickering. He doesn't not enhance the crew dynamic. Do you really want to see some pervert kid clinging to Nami and Robin and crying because he's get yelled at by the guys? He's essentially all the worst traits of the Strawhats. He hasn't even really expressed as desire to be a pirate and travel. He wants to be a Shogun in Wano.
Where was it ever stated that Roger had around 100 people in his crew? Yes he definitely had more than 9, but please show me proof that he had more than 20-30…not that I'm saying thats how many SHs there will end up being.
https://www.opbforums.com/manga/One-Piece/chapter-0/page-7
Yo. I think about a hundred might have been the least. And you totally are missing my point that just because Roger had Oden in his ship, it doesn't mean Luffy have to bring Momo along it.
Lol. Wow. Jesus huh? Okay. I'm not trying to be rude. But your theories appear to be very off and your inability to see the logistics in bringing him make it hard to want to discuss this with you. Momo does not bring out the best in the crew. He makes 2 of them extra petty, another go a step further and is basically letting him do what he wants for supposed treasure. He causes more bickering. He doesn't not enhance the crew dynamic. Do you really want to see some pervert kid clinging to Nami and Robin and crying because he's get yelled at by the guys? He's essentially all the worst traits of the Strawhats. He hasn't even really expressed as desire to be a pirate and travel. He wants to be a Shogun in Wano.
If you think the Jesus reference was going too far, how about Richard Marcinko, leader of the legendary Seal Team Six, successful businessman, and the hard ass son of a b!+€h who's real life a lot of Tom Clancey's stuff is based on. That was his approach to leadership as well. And I'm not saying Momo makes the crew all get along. I'm saying he adds a new dimension to them. You may not personally like that dimension, and that's fine, but I do. I find it funny and I WOULD like to see more of it. We have plenty of time before the Wano arc is over he may yet express an interest in joining the crew.
https://www.opbforums.com/manga/One-Piece/chapter-0/page-7
Yo. I think about a hundred might have been the least. And you totally are missing my point that just because Roger had Oden in his ship, it doesn't mean Luffy have to bring Momo along it.
That page said nothing of Roger's numbers. It just showed Shiki's fleet vs Roger's one ship. That's like saying Shanks has over 100 on his crew because of the ones we saw during the war. And I'm NOT SAYING Momo will join BECAUSE his dad was on Roger's ship. People say he has too many obligations on Wano to join, and I'm arguing that if Oden was able to be on Roger's crew while having those responsibilities, its possible for Momo to be on Luffy's
That page said nothing of Roger's numbers. It just showed Shiki's fleet vs Roger's one ship. That's like saying Shanks has over 100 on his crew because of the ones we saw during the war. And I'm NOT SAYING Momo will join BECAUSE his dad was on Roger's ship. People say he has too many obligations on Wano to join, and I'm arguing that if Oden was able to be on Roger's crew while having those responsibilities, its possible for Momo to be on Luffy's
"I am not saying Momo must be on Luffy's ship because Oden was on Roger's ship, but it is the fact that Oden was on Roger's ship that Momo should be on Luffy's side." Yeah, I get it. Also, you can't say Roger didn't had 100 men at the time either.
Oden a grown ass Samurai strong enough to command, sail and go against the rules of his own country but nooo, he wants Momo, a perverted little boy who grew some balls the other day and asked Luffy to fight Kaido while dropping tears of regret because he's still a child and is so GOD DAMN weak.
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I've already stated my main reasons several times. 1) He has to learn to read the poneglyphs and Robin would be his teacher.
Eh, don't want to be that guy, but Oden didn't know how to read the poneglyphs. I think they made a distinction between that when Luffy was asking if they knew what the Poneglyphs said. They all said no, they just have the technique to write on these indestructible stones, they don't know what it translates too. For sure after travelling with Roger and other scholars Oden might have known how to read them. Think about it like this, they showed the Kozuki clan a paper with the message, and the Kozuki had the techniques to imprint that message onto the stone, they don't need to know what the messages says, it would make them an even bigger target. So Momo can't learn anything from Robin, he needs to learn stonemasons techniques, not read ancient messages.
That's why jokingly I said that if anything Momo helps forge Zoro's "meitou", in exchange of Momo keeping the national treasure Zoro has.
–-
Didn't you think that it was weird that Robin didn't do anything to Vivi when they met the first time? Robin was later confirmed to be a well versed asssassin, and her ability would've caught everyone by surprise. I thought it was strange, I couldn't put my finger on it, until we got to Alabasta and I was seeing her interactions with Crocodile not been buddy-buddy. Once Luffy saved her, I didn't think it was out there she would tag along. We had just been presented with a mystery (the poneglyphs), and as much as we all doubt Luffy would be interested in weapons like that, we cannot deny their importance to the rest of the One Piece World, and the even bigger mystery was Robin, the one could read them.
Luffy is not an everyday man. He had virtually no real opponents until he got to Smoker, where it was first hinted 'hey eeh, what's with power gap'. Of course to the world, he was just a blimp, but for us, from day 1 we knew Luffy was strong, even "monstruosly" strong compared to the average human being, like Nami or Ussop, or 90% of the people they encountered in East Blue.
Like you said this thread is talking about possibilities, so that's why people are asking you where or how the events you propose transpire. We can all go "we shall see", but at least tell us where do you think they'll end up, even if it is absurd, or well thought out.
I've never seen Sanji make pizza. They desperately need a pizza chef.
I wonder if Pekoms knows how to make them. Turtles really love pizza.
There's someone who loves Pizza that's be perfect!!:ninja:
I've never seen Sanji make pizza. They desperately need a pizza chef.
https://www.opbforums.com/manga/One-Piece/chapter-699/page-12
@Tamiel:
Eh, don't want to be that guy, but Oden didn't know how to read the poneglyphs. …..
I got the vibe that only he knew…
I got the vibe that only he knew…
Yes he knew what they said after he sailed the seas with Roger, maybe before, but I bet before he met Roger he had just inherited the techniques to transcribe messages on Poneglyphs. My point was that Oden's mastery came from his work with the stones, he probably couldn't read them until Roger with the Voice of all things told him about what the messages were.
I've never seen Sanji make pizza. They desperately need a pizza chef.
I wonder if Pekoms knows how to make them. Turtles really love pizza.
I agree he could be the pizza maker lol also people should support Pekoms in the character tournament pudding could make the sweats,sanji does the food and pekoms does the pizza lol.
Why would Oden need to have known it at the time that he actually learned to read it? He must have learned before joining Roger's crew and I'm pretty sure it wasn't to learn the secrets of the void century. Obviously that knowledge is important to their clan and has been passed down for hundreds of years even AFTER all the poneglyphs were written. Oda could have easily skipped mentioning the misfortune of the knowledge not being passed on if it wasn't important.
The misfortune is he died. They're talking about his death.
And you still haven't provided a reason for Momo to know the ancient language plot wise. Let alone one strong enough to justify him joining the crew.
You are simply describing the first part of the Monomyth, aka "The Hero's Journey," which most great stories follow. It refers to much more than just the protagonist. It is the collection of archetypes that you run into over the course of the story.
That is a writer's guideline in of itself based off observation of stories throughout history, its not a law book or end all be all about basic adventure stories.
And I'm not basing my arguments on it. I'm basing it off the same observation and comparisons among stories that the creator of it did.
Rigidly interpreting the Heroes Journey to insist that Luffy is an everyman shows you don't actually understand tropes at all.
Luffy is not, and never has been, an everyman. The only feature he has that allows for audiences to relate is his general ignorance of the world and how it works.
Usopp and Chopper are not tricksters.
And there is no Herald in One Piece, you could possibly argue Shanks, but Luffy from a young age was being trained up to go out and be a badass adventurer, it just came down to whether he was going to be a pirate or marine. And we never saw a Luffy world before Shanks either, meaning depiction wise he really doesn't work as a herald at all.
Whats essential isn't that there be someone to ground the story, its that the audience connects with, and routes for, the hero.
You are listing one essential thing as if there IS only one essential thing. This doesn't in any way refute or even address the everyman thing.
If that doesn't happen, they will not enjoy his story no matter how many people ground it. Luffy may not be your favorite character, he certainly isn't mine, but I still connect with him as I'm sure EVERY reader does.
And HOW do you connect with them, because you seem to have chosen to wildly misinterpret what I meant by that in the context of everyman. Because if you're saying you relate to fearlessly even happily marching into wild super dangerous uncharted islands populated by thunder gods and volcanic military strongmen? Then you're bullshitting us and yourself.
I think I've successfully proven that he falls under that category.
You have successfully proven you don't understand the Journey archetypes you're quoting, let alone the entire concept.
Honestly it seems you just read the word "trick" and "mischief" and thought no farther about it. This isn't a matter of debate, you do not understand what the trickster character is.
For examples elsewhere think along the lines of the Cheshire Cat in Alice in Wonderland. Tricksters aren't just "funny sidekick".
Also you seem to be under the impression that if an archetype is listed, One Piece has to have one. No, it doesn't. No Herald for instance.To me, the biggest indication is the chemistry he has with the crew. The traits he brings out in them are, turning Nami into a nurturer,
Ugh.
Brook and Sanji into jealous/judgemental people, and Luffy into a bullying big brother kind of role.
Yeah Cyclone Baroness was tearing this up just fine, I'll leave it to her.
Beyond that, all there is is possibilities, and its almost impossible to say for certain. We don't know where Oda will take the story so aside from "hints," and possibility, there isn't anything to go on.
This is complete crap and I think you know that. But just in case you believe what your wrote, all uncertainty is not created equal.
My argument is that using 20/20 hindsight vision, you can state all the great facts why Robin was needed on the crew, but anyone claiming she would join during Alabasta would have only been able to say, "she saved Luffy after his first fight with Crocodile" as a valid reason. Which would have been HIGHLY contestable.
Ok.
Absolutely nothing about this supports any argument for Momonosuke whatsoever.All we can ever do before a character joins the crew is make educated guesses based on the hints that have been laid out. Hints that can be argued against. And it is much easier to argue than it is to argue for it.
Its also much harder to argue from a badly supported and poorly thought out series of non-hints.
There are some counter arguments that I can't possibly defend against without making wild guesses as to whats going to happen in the future. I'm making a prediction based on hints given, rather than making baseless speculations as to where the story will go.
You have the entire process completely ass backwards then. If you are finding it very hard to defend your theory, that might signal it is a bad one. If you still find yourself pushing for it, then your motivation is clearly not about figuring the story out anymore. And more about become fanboyish about a certain character. This is the same phenomena we see with Bearious.
If you feel a light throbbing instinct that tells you maybe Momo might join that's fine, but why you need to march out and try and build a house with no material is absolutely beyond me.We knew that there would be information on Raftel about the void century and speculated that there might be a poneglyph there, but NO ONE would have guessed that you actually needed to use the poneglyphs as a roadmap to find Raftel in the first place.
Except Roger's words on the Skypiea Poneglyph suggest exactly something of that nature.
Bro, this whole thread is literally nothing but possibility.
Oh ok, so you actually do believe this thing. Wow.
Yeah let me reiterate for you, all uncertainty is not created equal. All evidence is not equal. And all logic is not equal.
This is one of the absolute weakest arguments defending lack of evidence I've ever heard here. You bringing up retrospect is completely irrelevant. No matter how many times you say "Well we didn't know that Robin would be x!!", it will never at any point provide defense for poorly substantiated points about Momo. Never ever.
Like I said, no one at all has said that Momonosuke is impossible as a crewmate.I listed the traits above. Please reread the end of Punk Hazard till when the crew separated again, and Zou. Tell me Brook, Sanji, Nami, and Luffy weren't showing slightly different sides of their personalities due to Momo.
The only relationship that is at all interesting is Luffy's tough big brother thing. The rest?
There's a sex joke for Nami and Robin, and the associated jealousy from Sanji/Brooke etc.
The first thing with Luffy is good, the rest is stuff that was funny (if that) once or twice. And not the bedrock of anything at all.I guess you've never heard of servant leadership. A great leader sees himself as a humble servant of his people. Jesus washed the feet of his disciples. Being a cabin boy would give Momo that kind of humility.
This, this is perfect evidence that you don't have enough actual ground to theorize about Momo and need to stop pronto. If you find yourself posting this, you're in "insane stretch the story to justify my character" territory.
https://www.opbforums.com/manga/One-Piece/chapter-699/page-12
Seeing this page only reminded me of how much I hate the little shit because he got to bathe with Robin.:getlost:
are we forgetting the fact that momo is a child? he's unfit for luffy's adventure, not only would he get killed by the most worthless of goons that even usopp would dispatch with ease. but he also a coward, acts spoiled, and he is quite full of himself. so it would be very unlikely that he is gonna agree to be a cabin boy.
honestly i think he's a very annoying character, i hope we never see him again after this arc.
are we forgetting the fact that momo is a child? he's unfit for luffy's adventure, not only would he get killed by the most worthless of goons that even usopp would dispatch with ease. but he also a coward, acts spoiled, and he is quite full of himself. so it would be very unlikely that he is gonna agree to be a cabin boy.
honestly i think he's a very annoying character, i hope we never see him again after this arc.
The main problem is that he acts spoiled so he gets out of doing the work that he would be joining as cabin boy to do on the ship plus he is just a boy version of vivi lol.
https://www.opbforums.com/manga/One-Piece/chapter-699/page-12
My dream. You killed it. :sad:
So much for mutant ninja Pekoms pizza master joining.
My dream. You killed it. :sad:
So much for mutant ninja Pekoms pizza master joining.
[emoji57] Momo was reading more than Poneglyphs off Robin on that page
You mean a cowardly/arrogant/pervert isnt wanted? That's like Usopp, Zoro and Sanji all combined. The first three members to join luffy's crew, yeah its there three most annoying traits but who cares, 3 gags = 3 dimensions.
"I am not saying Momo must be on Luffy's ship because Oden was on Roger's ship, but it is the fact that Oden was on Roger's ship that Momo should be on Luffy's side." Yeah, I get it. Also, you can't say Roger didn't had 100 men at the time either.
Touche…i guess we have a stalemate then good sir.
@Tamiel:
Eh, don't want to be that guy, but Oden didn't know how to read the poneglyphs. I think they made a distinction between that when Luffy was asking if they knew what the Poneglyphs said. They all said no, they just have the technique to write on these indestructible stones, they don't know what it translates too. For sure after travelling with Roger and other scholars Oden might have known how to read them. Think about it like this, they showed the Kozuki clan a paper with the message, and the Kozuki had the techniques to imprint that message onto the stone, they don't need to know what the messages says, it would make them an even bigger target. So Momo can't learn anything from Robin, he needs to learn stonemasons techniques, not read ancient messages.
That's why jokingly I said that if anything Momo helps forge Zoro's "meitou", in exchange of Momo keeping the national treasure Zoro has.
–-
Didn't you think that it was weird that Robin didn't do anything to Vivi when they met the first time? Robin was later confirmed to be a well versed asssassin, and her ability would've caught everyone by surprise. I thought it was strange, I couldn't put my finger on it, until we got to Alabasta and I was seeing her interactions with Crocodile not been buddy-buddy. Once Luffy saved her, I didn't think it was out there she would tag along. We had just been presented with a mystery (the poneglyphs), and as much as we all doubt Luffy would be interested in weapons like that, we cannot deny their importance to the rest of the One Piece World, and the even bigger mystery was Robin, the one could read them.
Luffy is not an everyday man. He had virtually no real opponents until he got to Smoker, where it was first hinted 'hey eeh, what's with power gap'. Of course to the world, he was just a blimp, but for us, from day 1 we knew Luffy was strong, even "monstruosly" strong compared to the average human being, like Nami or Ussop, or 90% of the people they encountered in East Blue.
Like you said this thread is talking about possibilities, so that's why people are asking you where or how the events you propose transpire. We can all go "we shall see", but at least tell us where do you think they'll end up, even if it is absurd, or well thought out.
The chapter 818 page I posted states, "What was passed on was the means to read and write the ancient glyphs." I'll give you that Luffy is not an everyman, but he is does have to overcome a ton of stuff. You just made me realize that one of the reasons I love OP is that there are a lot of different "Heroes".
@Monkey:
The misfortune is he died. They're talking about his death.
And you still haven't provided a reason for Momo to know the ancient language plot wise. Let alone one strong enough to justify him joining the crew.That is a writer's guideline in of itself based off observation of stories throughout history, its not a law book or end all be all about basic adventure stories.
And I'm not basing my arguments on it. I'm basing it off the same observation and comparisons among stories that the creator of it did.
Rigidly interpreting the Heroes Journey to insist that Luffy is an everyman shows you don't actually understand tropes at all.
Luffy is not, and never has been, an everyman. The only feature he has that allows for audiences to relate is his general ignorance of the world and how it works.
Usopp and Chopper are not tricksters.
And there is no Herald in One Piece, you could possibly argue Shanks, but Luffy from a young age was being trained up to go out and be a badass adventurer, it just came down to whether he was going to be a pirate or marine. And we never saw a Luffy world before Shanks either, meaning depiction wise he really doesn't work as a herald at all.You are listing one essential thing as if there IS only one essential thing. This doesn't in any way refute or even address the everyman thing.
And HOW do you connect with them, because you seem to have chosen to wildly misinterpret what I meant by that in the context of everyman. Because if you're saying you relate to fearlessly even happily marching into wild super dangerous uncharted islands populated by thunder gods and volcanic military strongmen? Then you're bullshitting us and yourself.
You have successfully proven you don't understand the Journey archetypes you're quoting, let alone the entire concept.
Honestly it seems you just read the word "trick" and "mischief" and thought no farther about it. This isn't a matter of debate, you do not understand what the trickster character is.
For examples elsewhere think along the lines of the Cheshire Cat in Alice in Wonderland. Tricksters aren't just "funny sidekick".
Also you seem to be under the impression that if an archetype is listed, One Piece has to have one. No, it doesn't. No Herald for instance.Ugh.
Yeah Cyclone Baroness was tearing this up just fine, I'll leave it to her.
This is complete crap and I think you know that. But just in case you believe what your wrote, all uncertainty is not created equal.
Ok.
Absolutely nothing about this supports any argument for Momonosuke whatsoever.Its also much harder to argue from a badly supported and poorly thought out series of non-hints.
You have the entire process completely ass backwards then. If you are finding it very hard to defend your theory, that might signal it is a bad one. If you still find yourself pushing for it, then your motivation is clearly not about figuring the story out anymore. And more about become fanboyish about a certain character. This is the same phenomena we see with Bearious.
If you feel a light throbbing instinct that tells you maybe Momo might join that's fine, but why you need to march out and try and build a house with no material is absolutely beyond me.Except Roger's words on the Skypiea Poneglyph suggest exactly something of that nature.
Oh ok, so you actually do believe this thing. Wow.
Yeah let me reiterate for you, all uncertainty is not created equal. All evidence is not equal. And all logic is not equal.
This is one of the absolute weakest arguments defending lack of evidence I've ever heard here. You bringing up retrospect is completely irrelevant. No matter how many times you say "Well we didn't know that Robin would be x!!", it will never at any point provide defense for poorly substantiated points about Momo. Never ever.
Like I said, no one at all has said that Momonosuke is impossible as a crewmate.The only relationship that is at all interesting is Luffy's tough big brother thing. The rest?
There's a sex joke for Nami and Robin, and the associated jealousy from Sanji/Brooke etc.
The first thing with Luffy is good, the rest is stuff that was funny (if that) once or twice. And not the bedrock of anything at all.This, this is perfect evidence that you don't have enough actual ground to theorize about Momo and need to stop pronto. If you find yourself posting this, you're in "insane stretch the story to justify my character" territory.
Man, honestly I'm just tired at this point. All the other BS aside, from my interpretation of the story, I see Momo becoming as SH. I personally like the way he interacts with the other crew members, and I think he needs to learn to read the poneglyphs because his dad died before passing on that knowledge which was seen as important to their clan. Since Robin is on the crew, and Robin can teach him, I think he will join the crew. If you don't agree with me or my rational, and your interpretation of the story has led you to draw a different conclusion, that is perfectly fine. One of us will be right and the other will be less right. Its been kind of fun, but I'm not gonna use more time arguing this (ultimately irrelevant for our lives) issue with you. When we find out for certain, I hope you think of me, because I will think of you.
As far as the servant leader thing, its LITERALLY my job to train people to oversee financial offices making $200K plus. Servant leadership is one of the MOST VITAL traits for a leader to have. A leader must be humble enough to roll up their sleeves and do what is needed. A true leader sees himself as the servant of his people, rather than someone being served by his people.
He wouldn't be really serving his people. He'd be serving amoral pirates. And I get that you personally like Momo and his interactions with the crew. That was obvious. Because your reasoning for him was pretty skewed to make him fit into a niche role that's not needed or makes sense for his character and the story.
Personally liking a character and wanting them to join is fine. But trying to convince people and not willing to see a character's faults or chances is frustrating lol. I like Carrot and even said I thought she had potential. I'm not fully invested in it. I can see that she's not quite unique enough design wise to really place in the crew. Maybe if she wasn't now clearly "the white rabbit" in this Alice in Wonderland style arc she could have had a different role. But I can be happy she's along for the ride. Verses just having Pedro as a traveling companion.