AP Retro Game Party HD Remastered NG+ - February 2015 - Earthbound

Kitsune Inferno

Hello, fellow gameophiles.~ When a new game comes out here on AP, it tends to spark real-time discussion as people post their progress and whatnot and share their thoughts as they play. There's usually pages upon pages of ripe discussion on the game in question. But then it drops off over time as everyone beats the game and goes on with their lives. Sure, SOMEBODY's out there playing Chrono Trigger right now, but there's a lack of any large-scale discussion to take part in. And I bet you've been looking for an excuse to replay Ocarina of Time, haven't you?

Enter the AP Retro Game Party:
1. Once a month, AP members cast their vote on a game to play from any era up to the N64/PSX/Dreamcast era for consoles, and GBA era for handhelds.
2. During the month, we will replay the game. Most of us will play start to finish, but you are free to load up past saves or play up to wherever you please, so long as your discussion is about what you've played during the month.
3. As we play, we simply post and share our opinions and thoughts, as frequently as we'd like. These opinions and thoughts are meant to be completely based off of this playthrough, though you may make comparisons to old opinions.

That's basically the gist of it. Everything else is discussed below in detail.

Mission

Encouraging and Promoting Discussion: We're here to promote discussion and thoughts on the game in real-time as you play it, much like in newer game threads as everyone gets a hold of a new game and plays through it. This is the perfect chance to schedule a replay of those dusty old classics, because we're all doing it! As for discussion itself, anything goes. Thoughts on plot, gameplay, presentation, design, whatever, it's all up for discussion!
Evaluating Prior Conceptions and Adopting New Perspectives: You might think Super Mario World was the best game ever last time you played, but how do you feel about it now? Do you feel like you enjoy the game more? Do you feel like you enjoy it less? We want you to share your altered or unaltered opinions and new perspectives as you play through the game! So come into the experience with an open but critical mind.
Experiencing Classics Again or for the Very First Time: While the idea is to relive games we've already played, there's still plenty of room here for first-time players. We want to see new players get to enjoy the things we did so many years ago! With that in mind, however, spoilers simply cannot be avoided within this discussion. Some of us know who is going to die at the end of Disc Five, and this particular death is probably going to play a pivotal role in the experience of the game.
Keep in Mind

1. If you're not currently playing the game as part of the thread, we don't care.
2. You are free to mention prior playthroughs and your thoughts on them, so long as you're primarily posting new material and new reactions AS YOU ARE PLAYING THE GAME. Old thoughts are meant to be simply comparisons only.
3. You are free to enter the discussion at any time, so long as we have not moved on to a new game. It's okay to start at the end of the month, just be warned you probably won't finish with the rest of us.
4. Be mindful of spoilers at your own discretion. Basically, anything you as a player think is best kept a secret for a new player should be tagged appropriately (or vague or something).
5. Golden Rings are not an acceptable form of currency in this thread. Sorry, Sonic fans, your money's no good here.

That's about it, really. If you have any questions, ask me or The Beast.

–-

Now then, this month's adventure begins November 1st, and the game you guys chose is the first North American release of the granddaddy of T-RPGs Fire Emblem, which is actually the seventh game in the series. This game came out on the GBA and involves three Heroes, Eliwood, Lyn, and Hector, as they do stuff I can't exactly remember. Fire Emblem is known for its "if they die in battle, they die forever" mechanic, so continuing the game with everyone alive is sometimes excruciatingly difficult, but sometimes, sacrifices must be made.

Don't have a copy of Fire Emblem? This game is only available on the GBA, but I THINK (don't quote me on this) it was part of the 3DS's Ambassador program. Can someone clarify that?

I think that's about all I can say. The Party will begin on November 1st, but until then, I guess feel free to discuss the idea as a whole, and recommend some games for December.~ Remember, this idea only works if the games we play are games YOU want to play.

–-

Past Game Parties:
JUNE 2012: Final Fantasy VII - http://apforums.net/showthread.php?t=35388
JULY 2012: Earthbound - http://apforums.net/showthread.php?t=35664
AUGUST 2012: The Legend of Zelda: Link to the Past - http://apforums.net/showthread.php?t=35981
SEPTEMBER 2012: Spyro the Dragon - http://apforums.net/showthread.php?t=36213
OCTOBER 2012: Sonic Adventure 2 - http://apforums.net/showthread.php?t=36393

Noqanky

The game available for 3DS ambassador's program is Sacred Stones. So this one would have to be either the GBA cartridge or emulator I guess?

Now, regarding the game … tips I should have followed the first time I played it:

let the weaker units get kills in the early chapters. Lyn's story is a fantastic way to build up units that later on will be a drag if not leveled up, such as: Lucius, Serra, Nils, Matthew, Florina. Some of these, like Florina, will become true beasts later on if taken care of, while in the beginning she will be a bother, especially since she appears in the chapter with bows and brigands.
Marcus only has one good use: bait. He will seem overpowered and cool to use when everyone else is relatively much weaker than him. But by god, once you train them, pretty much every other unit in the game will be more useful than Marcus ... well, except Renault, that bishop that randomly appears in the second to last chapter. What I do is I take away his weapons and send him off into the wild, he will draw in enemies and won't die, and then weaker units attack next turn and get great experience he would otherwise soak up like a sponge.
There's going to be girl units that may seem weak and fragile as heck in the beginning but will evolve into true monsters and be extremely valuable units. The ones from the top of my head are Rebecca, Florina, and Nino. Nino comes extremely late in the game as a mage, but if you go to the extra chapter after you get her and make the effort, you can get her upgraded to Sage by the end of it and then she'll be slaughtering foes left and right.
Make sure to get the sidequest chapter in which you obtain Canas. Hands down best unit in the game, can solo the final bosses in a way not even the lords can.
Raise Lyn and Eliwood to lvl. 20 as fast as possible so when they upgrade they have the best stats they can get. Hector won't be a problem leveling up, he's naturally come in handy without effort.
There's a mine glitch in which you lay a mine. Once it's exploded by an enemy, you turn off the game. When you boot it up again and resume the campaign, you can control the enemy units. This means that if you feel like cheating the system and making some chapters less of a pain, you can glitch the game and then have enemies drop their weapons, trade them for useless ones, or have recruitable units get closer.

it's a really fun game and deserving of many playthroughs. I may consider trying out units I never have before.

Cyber-Robin

I only use the Mine-Glitch on the level with the pirates (handy hint for this one. DONT ATTACK THE PIRATE CAPTAIN. Nor the one with the picture since you'll fail the mission or lose a future ally.)

Only reason I use it there is due to the Colosseaum and it's amazing way to easily promote units.

as for the Marcus. I'd personally suggest not using Wallace either, especially in Lyn levels. I managed to beat the final boss of that arc using Matthew and Serra. (If you aint done it before, I certainly suggest getting their support up. Possibly the most hilarious one ever save for Canas and Batre) Would recommend that. In fact I personally dislike using any pre-promoted units.
Awesome. I'm gonna have to dig out this game now. Shame. I'm going on a long trip today and already packed.

Mr. Zoro

Dangit, forget I left this game at my other house. Screeeeew yooouu, Kitsune.

Love this game, I was obsessed with it so much when I first heard it coming state-side about 8 years ago.
However, being the little newblet I was back then, I did some stupid mistakes (it was my first turn based strategy rpg, after all). I didn't level up Lyn to the point that she died so easily in the last half of the game, and I often let some units die without a care in the world. So effectively, I never got to see how amazing people like Rebecca or Florina could be.

Insider2000

I'll partake in this one.

I wonder how many newcomers will hate Florina. I like Florina, but her big sis, Fiora is where it's at!

I'll definitely play. I've been missing Wil. Easily my favorite character in the game.

Remember, when choosing between either Wil or Rebecca: PICK THEM BOTH AND SHIP THEM TOGETHER!!!

Cyber-Robin

Wil + Rebecca = Wolt. You gotta do it!

Farina was always my favourite of the sisters. It's a shame she arrives so late into Hector's mode.

Insider2000

She does, but at least she's level 16 by then. More than I can say for Nino.

Then again, I'm someone who takes time and pleasure making sure the characters I want get to level. So I love Florina, Nino, and Rebecca.

I have the hardest time choosing between Kent and Sain. I ship Lyn x Kent like a motha fo, however.

Cyber-Robin

Lyn was weird. I always thought LynxMark was my favourite but it's not really in the game as a support. I think over the course of the games I had her with all of the outcomes. With Kent and Florina was best. Just not Rath. God I hated Rath. And I prefer Kent with Fiora too. Sain…I liked Sain in the earlier chapters but never had the need to use him. Kent always seemed to outshine him even earlier. and Sain's supports never seemed to benefit me (since Serra used to always be put with Matthew or Hector. Or Priscilla with Raven or Guy)

I think I only ever used Nino once. And I got an A support with her and Legault. I think it was a playthrough where I used the chars I never do. Like Dork-Ass instead of Batre/Dart, Nino instead of Erk/Priscilla, Rath and Louise instead of Will and Rebecca. (Louise was pretty damn awesome actually. If only there was a way to kill off Pent and give Louise an A support with someone better. Like Sain)

Insider2000

Louise and Pent are two of the best pre-promotes. I generally prefer Nino since I dislike most pre-promotes and Erk to some extent (if this\every FE game had Lute, there would be no use for any other Mage).

Kent is better than Sain. Sain has better Str, but Kent turns out better overall. I just love them both too much.

Panekai

Ah, fire emblem. So many good times. I remember getting sacred stones first thinking the main character was Marth. Oh, how stupid I felt afterward. Freaking loved it though. Later getting this one after finishing ST. And getting forever stuck on the final level. And finally beating it at the sacrifice of a party member. I really hate letting party die but after so many losses(and the fact that it was the final boss anyway) I didnt really care.

MetaMario

Guess I'm the only person that was never able to gain support convos :I

Last time I played this, I was attempting the hardest challenge: Hector's Story on Hard Mode. Oh boy.

Cyber-Robin

Support convos can take forever to get. And not everyone can support with each other. Although most of them make sense. For example all of the Lords can support each other. I think all of the Pegasus Sisters can too. Other easy to remember ones are the archers, Eliwood and his Cavalary. Hector and his spies (Matthew, Serra, Oswin) can all support each other I think. And the train of Matthew > Guy > Priscilla > Raven > Lucian too. Its only some obscure chars (usually the pre-promotes) who only have a handful. IIRC Hawkeye, Geitz and Jaffar don't get many.

MetaMario

I know which ones talk to each other (the game tells you if you know where to look)….the problem seems to be I always put X and Y next to each other for every turn possible, yet my sucess is limited. Am I speeding through the chapter too much? Or am I dividing up the correct units at the wrong time?

IIRC the only one I got was Eliwood and Hector C-Rank.

Cyber-Robin

Some can really take 100s of turns. What I would suggest is to not complete the chapter until you got the ones you want. Easier said than done sometimes.

MetaMario

@Cyber-Robin:

Some can really take 100s of turns. What I would suggest is to not complete the chapter until you got the ones you want. Easier said than done sometimes.

Oh my…..__

Maybe I should hold off. Problem is, whenever I see my stars/rank drop after a chapter, it bugs me. And waiting ~100 turns will seriously kill the tactics rank. Then again, I haven't gotten anything higher than a "B" on a playthrough lol

Insider2000

I've already started. I wanted to do a challenge for myself, so I'm doing Eliwood Hard Mode, but only using female characters.

I'm on Chapter 6 of Lyn's Campaign, and she's currently Level 10. Florina is climbing and I just got Serra. I think the only exception for my plan will be to use Matthew. I need a thief to steal stuff and unlock doors/chests.

MetaMario

Ah, Florina…..I fully remember in the early days of playing the game that I thought she was a weak unit. I never bothered to raise her.

But recently I have raised her AND promoted her on a playthrough or two. Isn't she the best of the three Pegasus sisters, stat wise?

Insider2000

@MetaMario:

Ah, Florina…..I fully remember in the early days of playing the game that I thought she was a weak unit. I never bothered to raise her.

But recently I have raised her AND promoted her on a playthrough or two. Isn't she the best of the three Pegasus sisters, stat wise?

The sisters are pretty balanced in their individual skills.

Florina - High speed, good skill, low defense.
Fiora - High skill, good defense, low speed.
Farina - Max strength (which is insane for a pegasus rider), good everywhere else.

Farina is the best, but all three are excellent. Florina requires a some hand holding, and Farina is given pretty late in the game. Fiora (easily my favorite) benefits from joining you at a reasonable level, having reasonable stats, having great support options, and being pretty balanced all around.

Honestly? Use all three if you want. That way, you can use Triangle Attack.

Cyber-Robin

lol. Never noticed the little 'conversation' between Matthew and Serra the level you recruit Matthew. Pretty darn funny. (considering at this point most people don't realise just who both of these are.)

MetaMario

@Insider2000:

The sisters are pretty balanced in their individual skills.

Florina - High speed, good skill, low defense.
Fiora - High skill, good defense, low speed.
Farina - Max strength (which is insane for a pegasus rider), good everywhere else.

Good to know!

Farina is the best, but all three are excellent. Florina requires a some hand holding, and Farina is given pretty late in the game. Fiora (easily my favorite) benefits from joining you at a reasonable level, having reasonable stats, having great support options, and being pretty balanced all around.

Honestly? Use all three if you want. That way, you can use Triangle Attack.

I definitely remember using the hell out of Farina on one file. She's my personal favorite of the three, stats be damned. Fiora's good, but she's the one I never really….raised. It's a shame, I'll make a mental note to really use come the Dread Isle chapter.

Think I used Triangle Attack.....once? It's pretty cool and highly useful, so why haven't I used it more? Maybe it's because I can never balance the three sisters in terms of experience, so I always sideline the weakest one(s).

Here's a question for you all: has anyone ever gotten all three Kushina chapters (that magic seal guy in a robe) in Hector's mode? One of them requires raising Nils to level 7, which is a painful chore.

Bobjr

I've used all 3 pegasus knights in games before, if only because they're really good in this game, unlike something like 6 where everything has shit resistance unless it's a magic user.

Noqanky

Never really bothered with the triangle attack. Too many good units in the game with diverse classes and skills, that it always felt like a tremendous waste to have three pegasus knights in the field.

Insider2000

I got through Lyn's chapter with no issue. Lyn and Florina both at level 15.

Now? I'm having issues trying to manage with just Eliwood, Hector, Rebecca, and Serra.

Although I gotta say, Serra can dodge like nobody's business!

Cyber-Robin

I aint decided who I wanna use yet. I have noticed that Rebecca seems to have died in all of my games…but Will is lvl 10...

Serra, Matthew, Hector, Florina, Batre, Kent, Lyn, Eliwood and Dart seem likely thus far. Maybe Farina. Can't decide between Guy or Raven. Or Canas, Lucius or Erk.

Bobjr

Canas is outright broken in FE7 due to Luna being the best magic out there.

Noqanky

Ok, I'm giving Serra a chance. Usually I go for Priscilla as the main healer, but I will do something different.

Also find it interesting that so many people like Kent. Sain has always been my favorite of the three Cavaliers.

Talk about favorites, I had forgotten how much fun Oswin is … The guy is a wall, simply amazing.

MetaMario

@Bobjr:

Canas is outright broken in FE7 due to Luna being the best magic out there.

I think he can harm the dragon with that, right?

Cyber-Robin

Sain is more fun personality wise. But Kent fits better due to supports. None of the girls really HELP Sain as much as Lyn or Fiora help Kent.

Bobjr

@MetaMario:

I think he can harm the dragon with that, right?

If Athos and Canas both have Luna they can take out the dragon in a turn.

MetaMario

@Bobjr:

If Athos and Canas both have Luna they can take out the dragon in a turn.

Geez, that's pretty broken.

So I checked on my Hector Hard Mode file and it seems I'm stuck on the chapter where the gang has to save Lyn's grandfather from invading Laus soldiers in the castle. And I finally remember the damning reason why I failed my last attempt.

I was unable to kill the boss. Yes, that's right. It's a general, and he stayed on a throne, where he regains HP each turn. The only person that could touch him was Hector (him and Wolf Beil make a fantastic combo), and the boss could potentially slaughter the others in a turn or two. My magic user only did like 5 damage with Thunder!

So that limited my approach. Hector could attack, but the boss would significally damage him. So I had to move him to be healed or else he would be finished off. And the fact that the boss kept gaining HP each turn slowly turned into a vicious cycle of back-and-forth heal and fight. Soon my weapon broken.

….and the other problem (one I really can't avoid) are the damn cavalier reforcements, that slowly outnumber my units down there and kill Merlinus.

....Well, I should give it another try now that I know the problems.

Bobjr

In Hector's Hard Mode Marcus goes from a crutch character to a lifesaver.

Cyber-Robin

I forgot how annoying Guy can be to recruit. The amount of times he either OHKO'd Matthew or was recruited and then got killed was amazing.

Am I the only one who farms the bosses for exp? Like have all of the weaker units attack enough to get them up a level or two

Insider2000

@Cyber-Robin:

I forgot how annoying Guy can be to recruit. The amount of times he either OHKO'd Matthew or was recruited and then got killed was amazing.

Am I the only one who farms the bosses for exp? Like have all of the weaker units attack enough to get them up a level or two

I generally throw a weaponless Marcus in Guy's line of fire. If Marcus dies, meh. Either way, it works.

And no, I do that too. I'm regretting not choosing Eliwood Hard Mode so that I could get Rebecca to Level 5 before getting to the next chapter. Still, I wanted to get Farina.

Cyber-Robin

Got my first promote of the game. Always a milstone. Serra got to 20 and promoted her to a Bishop. Now she can attack pwn too.

Edit: Mostly everyone is upgraded now. Only Matthew, Lyn, Hector and Eliwood left. I think I'll promote Lyn over Eliwood due to her needing the boost, Eliwood turned out pretty well this time….for the first time in ever....

Bobjr

Eliwood usually turns out decent for me, I know he's one of the characters who can go anywhere from bad to good, but I've never had him turn out super bad.

At least he's not Roy.

Insider2000

Oh god… Roy...

That entire game is just... such a let down. So many people who got into the series via Melee and excited to see Roy, only to find that his game is one of the most boring in the series and he, himself, is pretty crappy until he gets the final weapon.

Bobjr

I wouldn't call 6 boring, though the constant berserk staves can get really annoying.

Cyber-Robin

I actually downloaded an english version of 6. Totally planning on going through it once I finished 7. I played the first level. Seemed to go pretty quickly. Felt like an early Eliwood/Hector one. No tutorial, no hand-holding. Just thrown straight into the action. (Although I do recall hearing somewhere that Lyn's mode was added because of the west release in order to help them play it.

Bobjr

@Cyber-Robin:

I actually downloaded an english version of 6. Totally planning on going through it once I finished 7. I played the first level. Seemed to go pretty quickly. Felt like an early Eliwood/Hector one. No tutorial, no hand-holding. Just thrown straight into the action. (Although I do recall hearing somewhere that Lyn's mode was added because of the west release in order to help them play it.

It was. In the Japanese version you're given the option to completely skip Lyn's story, even if you haven't played it.

MetaMario

Okay, time to replay the chapter I'm stuck on.

Bobjr, I'll take your action and put in Marcus. Only 8 guys, so this will be tough. Hector's obviously in. Matthew's a must to get the treasure, even if I will lose some of them to the enemy thieves.

Bobjr

http://serenesforest.net/forums/index.php?showtopic=15261

Here's a really good tier list for Hector's Hard Mode, taking in all the differences between it and the other modes.

Cyber-Robin

I think Marcus has sucked late-game no matter what mode I'm on lol I always thought people putting him so high was a joke.

Noqanky

I feel the same way about Marcus. His poor growth always leaves me feeling pissed off that all that experience didn't go to other units.

Bobjr

Honestly Marcus used to be considered a joke, but people did testing just a year or two ago or something like that and he's now middle tier for Eliwood and normal Hector mode, and high tier for HHM. I think part of it was how much of a joke he was in 6, and it just kind of carried over.

MetaMario

@Bobjr:

http://serenesforest.net/forums/index.php?showtopic=15261

Here's a really good tier list for Hector's Hard Mode, taking in all the differences between it and the other modes.

Oh, thanks a ton.

Cyber-Robin

Forgot how I hate that side-quest after recruiting Nino. Especially if you aint bothering to level Nino since it forces both her and Jaffar onto you. Difficult to get through without one of them snuffing it.

Edit: ok. so I DID forget how annoying the final level is. I got my whole team max out and still struggle. Even more annoying is no option to save on the 2nd part of the level.

Mr. Zoro

@Cyber-Robin:

Forgot how I hate that side-quest after recruiting Nino. Especially if you aint bothering to level Nino since it forces both her and Jaffar onto you. Difficult to get through without one of them snuffing it.

Oh, that level. THAT one. That's the one that I was stuck on the longest, for months. Of course, a lot of inactivity was from other things, but still… That level was a pain. Was even angrier when I got to that boss and sent in Hawkeye and have him die.

Bobjr

The level getting Nino is harder for me, as that requires a lot more pure luck.

Insider2000

Yeah, that mission is a nightmare for me. Between trying to save Nino, Jaffar, the prince, AND getting all the treasure in the short amount of time I have, it's a complete horror story.

Bobjr

It's a nightmare in Hector's Hard Mode. Nino in the boss's range, Jaffar vs an army of Swordslayers, and the prince will die by a certain turn unless he's really lucky or you stick someone as a guard.