Anime nostalgia: Shared experiences from veteran fans

[Kaba Kaba Fruit]

I'm writing to express a concern of mine that has been bugging me for years.

First off, I'm from the old school VHS and prior decade DVD buying anime crowd. I've been purchasing anime since 1999 and I am proud of my past patronages to the anime industry. You would probably consider me as the old-school buyer here.

Which brings me to my current point: As someone who has been buying anime tapes and DVDs for years from such notable companies like ADV, FUNimation and Geneon, I've felt that all my purchases were doing a world of good to support the anime industry. I felt like I was doing my part to help make sure that the industry would continue to thrive for years to come. However, with all the changes that were made to the industry in the past half-decade, I've come to see that there hasn't been much talk in the way of how the old school crowd had helped contribute to the day-to-day successes of the industry aside from Mike Toole at ANN.

I personally feel that despite all my patronage and support for the industry, the fans of today and even the industry of today is turning a blind eye to all our past support in favor of pleasing the modern anime fan which has the "more for less" mentality.With the attitudes that I am seeing across social media today, I'm beginning to wonder if our efforts in the past even mattered if nobody is willing to acknowledge them today? Did we really spend exhuberant amounts of money on 2-episode VHS tapes and 3-4 episode DVDs for nothing? Or am I going about this the wrong way?

Thoughts?

[Sonic Youth]

I'm all for supporting companies for giving you the products you love.

But if I saw a guy or gal with a huge bookshelf full of anime and manga I'd be like… Ooookaaayyyy.

[Robby]

Did you buy those things to watch and enjoy them, or did you buy them just to support the company and leave them wrapped in plastic?

If you got them to enjoy them, that is its own reward, and you DID support the industry.

I bought all three seasons of Slayers on tape at 20$ each, 8 tapes each season, for nearly 500$ (and back when I was on allowance rather than a job!). I also bought soundtracks and artbooks and other stuff, and eventually bought those same episodes on DVD, because I enjoyed it. And I would easily throw out 25$ for an anime movie on tape because they were rare and special. Nowadays… I balk at paying 30-40$ for an entire season of a show, any show.

The world is changing in the digital age, and no one could have legitimately seen it coming in the late 90's. But now the internet is faster and streaming is possible and it IS a different market. People expect more bang for their buck, and so models have had to change. The standards and expectations have changed. Times change, pure and simple.

You supported what you loved 15 years ago. Great, so did I. You helped keep those companies in buisness for a while.

Why do you want credit for it now? Go spend 500$ on new shows and get even more than you could have before, if that's your only goal.

Or... just get what you like and know that some of that trickles back to the creator, regardless.

[pyromonki]

I like's to keep my ish digital, especially when one particular series I like has more than 300 episodes.
I still buy the shows, but now they stay on my harddrive rather than my wall.

When I do buy manga or comics (which is rare), I like the megavolumes (3 tankoban in one).

Traditional buying is really only a hindrance (in my eyes) because of all the space it can take up. The digital age is taking care of that problem rather nicely.

Actually, all of it comes down to "how much space are you taking up?" really.

[Friend of Luffy and Gon]

I am probably going to have to buy some anime because my streaming is shit right now. There is a certain satisfaction with having the eps on dvd, but in Britain they are soooo expensive. Having said that I am more likely to buy live action series such as Buffy and How I met Your Mother because they are actually cheap or fairly cheap in boxsets. As for anga, I will buy it ifI haven't read it online before or if it simply isn't that far in the scans. I am planning on buying Haruhi Suzumiya volume 12 onwards because my library had vol 1-11.

[Cyclone_Baroness]

I spent soooo much money in Japan directly and US (Uwajimaya) for anime and manga when I was in high school. I think my parents would have been horrified to know what their money was going to lol. I bought far too many BL manga hahaha.

I'm not sure why you personally want kudos for spending money on the industry. Have people been harassing you or saying things that brought this on? I don't think I've ever heard someone state that those of us spending the dough had nothing to do with the industry now a days.

[Endless Strategy]

Supporting the anime industry is admirable, but you should understand that the accumulation of your purchases is but a drop in the ocean. Of course they value the poplular opinion. If you don't share that opinion, then your only course of action is bringing others to your cause. Otherwise you can't do much about it.

[Kaba Kaba Fruit]

@RobbyBevard:

Did you buy those things to watch and enjoy them, or did you buy them just to support the company and leave them wrapped in plastic?

I bought them to watch and enjoy them and support the company.

If you got them to enjoy them, that is its own reward, and you DID support the industry.

And yet, the industry turned a blind eye to that support just to please the cheapskates.

I bought all three seasons of Slayers on tape at 20$ each, 8 tapes each season, for nearly 500$ (and back when I was on allowance rather than a job!). I also bought soundtracks and artbooks and other stuff, and eventually bought those same episodes on DVD, because I enjoyed it. And I would easily throw out 25$ for an anime movie on tape because they were rare and special. Nowadays… I balk at paying 30-40$ for an entire season of a show, any show.

You do realize that $30-$40 bucks is nothing compared to owning an entire season of a show for life, right?

The world is changing in the digital age, and no one could have legitimately seen it coming in the late 90's. But now the internet is faster and streaming is possible and it IS a different market. People expect more bang for their buck, and so models have had to change. The standards and expectations have changed. Times change, pure and simple.

Times change but that doesn't mean they change for the better, Robby! The whole more bang for the buck mentality is nothing but pure bullshit when you realize just how volatile the anime industry really is! The 3-4 episodes per disk business model was done for some very good reasons! Reasons that HELPED keep the industry alive. The fact that the entire business model had to change just because the fans turned into a bunch of fucking cheapskates with their fansubs is a big slap in the face to not only the industry, but to those who have supported the industry by paying the REAL price just to get the titles they want! I would have thought that YOU of all people would be smart enough to know this!

You supported what you loved 15 years ago. Great, so did I. You helped keep those companies in buisness for a while.

And I'm damn proud of it!

Why do you want credit for it now? Go spend 500$ on new shows and get even more than you could have before, if that's your only goal.

The credit should be going to each and every last buyer out there. Without them, the R1 anime industry wouldn't even EXIST to this day! Anime is a niche market and the industry should be fucking thankful that we even supported this high-priced niche at all!

Or… just get what you like and know that some of that trickles back to the creator, regardless.

That's exactly what I've been doing. It hasn't stopped the cheapskates from taking the industry hostage with their more-for-less bullshit!
@Cyclone:

I'm not sure why you personally want kudos for spending money on the industry. Have people been harassing you or saying things that brought this on? I don't think I've ever heard someone state that those of us spending the dough had nothing to do with the industry now a days.
You're not paying attention. The anime industry was clearly in an experimental phase during the late 20th century. There were no guarantees whatsoever that the industry could've survived in the west well into the 21st century and who can blame the skeptics? Anime was considered too "different", "violent", "sexual" and my personal favorite, "strange". However, there were movements to keep it alive in the west as a result of pop culture fanatics willing to give it a chance. I'm one of those people. Jon Ledford, Matt Greenfield and Robert Woodhead were also those kinds of people and they founded their own respective companies to help push the medium in the west. Kids and adults couldn't buy most anime back then because it was limited and too expensive, plus the promotions were shit. These were all contributing factors to the growing skepticism about the future of anime. Therefore, EVERY PURCHASE by those who did take notice helped to keep the industry going a little more. These were the TRUE troopers of anime. You wouldn't have your medium the size of what it is today without those troopers who were willing to give the industry a chance over here. It's an absolute fallacy to sweep these troopers under the rug in favor of digi-subbers, pirates and CN fanboys.
@Endless:

Supporting the anime industry is admirable, but you should understand that the accumulation of your purchases is but a drop in the ocean. Of course they value the poplular opinion. If you don't share that opinion, then your only course of action is bringing others to your cause. Otherwise you can't do much about it.

I can stop supporting the industry. Simple as that. What are you or anyone else for that matter, gonna do about it?

[Robby]

That's just generational gap.

If you didn't know about anime pre-2006, then you just have no concept of what it was like when you had a selection of 20 titles over the entire industry consisting of Akira, Lodoss War, Vampire Hunter D and some stuff that ran on the sci-fi channel, and had to settle for 4th generation bootlegs of anything.

Now its abundant and easy to get instantly in bulk. Its different.

You can't blame people that weren't around pre the digital age for not appreciating what it was like before, or for the current audience knowing current anime but not knowing anything about what was hot in the late 90's. The internet appeared and grew from nothing in the 90's, it was still a new thing, and its been 15 years. Now there's an entire generation of teenagers that have had it as a staple their entire lives.

It's like trying to get Ipod users to appreciate casette tapes or records (or even dcs at this point). Its just the march of progress.

[rereboy]

@Sonic:

I'm all for supporting companies for giving you the products you love.

But if I saw a guy or gal with a huge bookshelf full of anime and manga I'd be like… Ooookaaayyyy.

Why? Just by having a long series like One Piece, someone would have a bookshelf full of manga, let alone 3 or 4 mangas. So, even the most common guy could fit that criteria.

And, besides that, owning that amount of manga or anime or more just tells me that he is not afraid of paying for something he loves, instead of just reading pirated versions or caring about what others think about what he follows and loves. Its certainly much better than useless decoration on shelves at least.

As for the first post: companies are just interested in making money. They just want to please the client in order to make more money. If pleasing the client won't translate into significant gains, they won't bother.

[Kaba Kaba Fruit]

@RobbyBevard:

That's just generational gap.

That's no excuse. Even today's generation should know better than to take a volatile industry hostage for the sake of their more-for-less BS.

If you didn't know about anime pre-2006, then you just have no concept of what it was like when you had a selection of 20 titles over the entire industry consisting of Akira, Lodoss War, Vampire Hunter D and some stuff that ran on the sci-fi channel, and had to settle for 4th generation bootlegs of anything.

See how hard it was for us back then? And yet we bought the titles because we loved the medium and we supported the industry for it. And what does the industry do? Turn their backs on us!

Now its abundant and easy to get instantly in bulk. Its different.

Good! There is more exposure to the medium now than ever before! As it should be!

You can't blame people that weren't around pre the digital age for not appreciating what it was like before, or for the current audience knowing current anime but not knowing anything about what was hot in the late 90's. The internet appeared and grew from nothing in the 90's, it was still a new thing, and its been 15 years. Now there's an entire generation of teenagers that have had it as a staple their entire lives.

I'm aware of this. However, I still fail to see how that's an excuse to justify disrespect to an entire industry.

It's like trying to get Ipod users to appreciate casette tapes or records (or even dcs at this point). Its just the march of progress.

I've got nothing against progress regarding distributable medium, but I do have something against how much can be distributed and at what price as far as the industry is concerned.
@rereboy:

As for the first post: companies are just interested in making money. They just want to please the client in order to make more money. If pleasing the client won't translate into significant gains, they won't bother.

Companies can't make money without satisfied customers. People keep missing this very important point.

[Robby]

So… what? You want written credit and props simply for having been around when the technology was more primitive and you had no other choice?

You were a fan. You bought stuff. Cool. So were a lot of people. They enjoyed being entertained.

Kids are fans now and they have easier and better access to more current stuff. They buy stuff cheaper or get it streaming. Also cool. They also enjoy being entertained.

What else did you do that's worthy of recording? Did you fandub? Study so you could go work at an anime company? Learn Japanese and move to japan to teach school children? Translate raw manga scripts? Organize fanclubs? Host anime meetings? Go above and beyond to spread the word? What was your contribution, the contribution of most consumers, that merits special notice?

What about fans who bought Marvel comics in the 70s and made it huge? Do they deserve props and being remembered... or do the creators? What about women who bought a lot of shoes in the 80's? Do they need credit for contributing the trends?

I'm... really not sure what it is you want here, other than to be respected as an old grandpa who walked through a mile of snow in his bare feet to get a third generation bootleg of raw dragonball episodes back in the day. Yeah, its cool that there was a community and a sort of shared story, but... its not a big deal outside of some minor historical editorials?

[wolfwood]

I propose making a plaque dedicated to all those people who are as old as Robby

[Kaba Kaba Fruit]

@RobbyBevard:

So… what? You want written credit and props simply for having been around when the technology was more primitive and you had no other choice?

Who said anything that I wanted written credit? This is credit towards all those who supported what was essentially a volatile industry! An industry that could've folded up and vanished into thin air without OUR support! What do you not understand?

You were a fan. You bought stuff. Cool. So were a lot of people. They enjoyed being entertained.

Bully for me and the people!

Kids are fans now and they have easier and better access to more current stuff. They buy stuff cheaper or get it streaming. Also cool. They also enjoy being entertained.

Bully for the kids except those who insist on getting more for less without thinking about what went into making these shows!

What else did you do that's worthy of recording? Did you fandub? Study so you could go work at an anime company? Learn Japanese and move to japan to teach school children? Translate raw manga scripts? Organize fanclubs? Host anime meetings? Go above and beyond to spread the word? What was your contribution, the contribution of most consumers, that merits special notice?

I spread the word about anime to help get people to support this volatile industry, something which the industry is ignoring for the sake of modern day profit at the hands of cheapskates who think they are entitled to more for less. EVERYONE'S contributions should be recognized!

What about fans who bought Marvel comics in the 70s and made it huge? Do they deserve props and being remembered… or do the creators? What about women who bought a lot of shoes in the 80's? Do they need credit for contributing the trends?

Okay, now you're just comparing apples and oranges here! American comic books and shoes are mainstream items that had and still are being purchased en masse. Anime and manga was a very very niche industry. This industry NEEDED whatever support it could get to keep itself alive. ADV, FUNimation, VIZ, and AnimEigo wouldn't had been the major powerhouses that they were without our support. It's too bad that the surviving companies decided to screw over the people who helped them get to what they are by cancelling existing releases in favor of sets that are appeasing to the cheapskates.

I'm… really not sure what it is you want here, other than to be respected as an old grandpa who walked through a mile of snow in his bare feet to get a third generation bootleg of raw dragonball episodes back in the day. Yeah, its cool that there was a community and a sort of shared story, but... its not a big deal outside of some minor historical editorials?

It is a big deal you contemptuous fuck! That community helped an industry get to where it was on this side of the Pacific and we're ignored! How would you like it if there was a medium you cared about and your contributions helped keep it alive for future generations only to have those generations take it for granted without even so much as acknowledging your efforts? I bet you would feel pretty sad and betrayed too!
Robby, if you think this stuff doesn't matter, then just say it. But you're making a BIG mistake if you think we deserve to be phased out in the anals of history!
@Wolfwood:

I propose making a plaque dedicated to all those people who are as old as Robby
If that's supposed to be sarcasm, then get the fuck out, Wolf! We don't need people like you polluting this thread!

[wolfwood]

This has to be one of the most bizarre threads i've read in a long while

[eerie]

you have entered the twilight zone

neeeneeneeeenurrrneeeneeeneeenurrrr

[valiantt]

@RobbyBevard:

blunt response

So to summarize the intent of this thread: "I deserve attention because I bought old stuff."

[Robby]

@Kaba:

Robby, if you think this stuff doesn't matter, then just say it.

This stuff doesn't matter.

If you want to talk about how the community was different once upon a time, or the shared experiences older fans have, or even any random fan's experience when first discovering the genre, that is a topic that's kind of interesting.

-Being delighted by low quality bootlegs.
-Trusting an ad from a random stranger in a magazine ad that you write a check to and hope to get something back from.
-Getting vauge glimpses of Dragonball characters eventually having blonde hair and kids because you see a wallscroll ad in Electronic Gaming Monthly.
-Seeing Akira for the first time and it being THE thing.
-Being amazed that there were boobs in Vampire Hunter D.
-How superior Lupin III, Slayers, Ranma, Evangelion, Tenchi , Gundam Wing and Dragonball are to anything coming out now.
-Watching pokemon in raw japanese and finding out there are banned episodes.
-When you first saw anime sliding over to digital animation in say, Love Hina and being wowed by the sharpness of the line and the vibrancy of the color.
-Realizing that "Miyazaki" is probably a name you should actually be able to talk about and see the entire library of.
-Making a long trek to a far away theatre to seee one of the super rare screenings of Princess Mononoke instead of Toy Story 2!
-Going to anime cons ("back when they only had hundred of people, not thousands") when they were still sort of new and you could discover Trigun or Berserk, and a once a year jaunt to an anime con or chinatown were the only ways TO find a new discovery.
-Discovering wallscrolls instead of posters.
-Seeing cosplay for the first time.
-Discovering that there was an entire subgenre of something called "hentai".
-Being at an anime con and hearing somebody drive by while playing the Outlaw Star theme in their car and trying your damndest to recognize it from anime meetings, and ultimately deciding it must be the Crayon Shin Chan theme.
-When it took years instead of hours to get the latest shows, and only a handful would make it here.
-When Powerpuff Girls hit and was a total anime parody.

That's all interesting. That's nostalgia and a batch of stories anyone into anime experiences. They're mutual shared experiences that everyone has, but also vary greatly. 8 years ago with Naruto, 15 years ago with Dragonball and Sailor Moon, or 25 years ago with Robotech and Starblazers, or even 30 or 40 years ago with Speed Racer and Kimba, can all share, an experience that you just can't get today in the digital age.

If that's what you want to talk about, share stories of the old days, go ahead. There is a history and a unique experience there to be shared that to some degree, "kids today" won't ever get.

You can have much the same argument about how kids today will never appreciate Nintendo and Super Nintendo games properly because they started with a Playstation.

The fact that someone came to the hobby more recently, or is younger, or simply hasn't experienced a thing you personally really enjoyed, doesn't diminish the fact they get enjoyment out of it. The fact you came to it earlier and had a harder time getting access to it doesn't automatically make you a better fan.

To just want credit, a random bit of recognition for having gone to those lengths to get more of what you enjoy? Back when it was a little harder by default and everyone went through that? (Especially when some went through that, and then contributed hugely to the community in more than just $.)

That's stuff doesn't matter.

[Aohige_AP]

We have ten billy bookcases with adjusted extra shelvings, and it's not enough to hold manga & DVD/BD collection.
When I get my house in the next year or two, I plan to convert an entire bedroom into a library.

I buy a lot.

Supporting the creators do cross a large portion of my mind, but the majority of the motivation is fulfilling my materialistic desires.
I don't buy just because, I buy because I WANT.

[Silence]

Robby laying down the truth and it is HEAVY.

I, like him, am one of the not-new anime fans.
I'm not quite as old as him, but pretty much everything on his list, I experienced too.

Things are different now. But what we did back then wasn't useless.

In fact, we should be proud that we helped anime reach the sort of audience it does now.
I was the president of my highschool's anime club, and we experienced the fandom just as the wave of anime was really breaking on our shores.
We raised money to go to conventions! We had viewing parties. We pooled our resources to try shows old and new.
That was great! It was great! We were great. We had good times.

Sounds like you did too, Kabba.

But the times they are a changin'. I take pride that I was there when it first got started,
But I paid for that pride in overpriced DVDs, "bucolic nonentities", and chinatown VHSes with subtitles typed by drunken monkeys.
And thank GOD I don't have to do that crap anymore: put down $30+ bucks on two episodes and wait months and months for the next disc?
I wouldn't wish it on kids today. We have got it so much better now.

It's easy to wax nostalgic on the good ol' days, but that modern times have made casual anime fans out of pretty much everyone?
That I can make a reference to FMA, or Gundam Wing, or Bebop and a quarter of the lecture hall will get it?
It's a beautiful thing!

Our labors have borne fruit. Go out and enjoy them for chrissake.

[Friend of Luffy and Gon]

@Wolfwood: awesome avatar btw, I just had to say it, I'm a massive Wolfwood fan. I would recommend renaming the thread "Jojo's Bizarre thread" if it were to become a bizarre thread. @Kaba Kaba: If I were you I wouldn't worry about the new fans, some of which are the same people who change their favourite anime every so called "season". Besdes it's a pretty sweeping generalisation of people who didn't have the chance to get vhs things. Although as for those new fans who don't know about the classics, I can guarantee there are probably a fair few of those new fans who will look into old series. Especially if they find out who inspired who, for example if they picked up early Naruto volumes they would find several references and author references to Toriyama. Despite our technological age, there are still kids who prefer doing things the old way ie read without using a computer to do it, otherwise we wouldn't have kids every year enrolling in history courses. Things are being digitalised but some information is best gathered in books, because quite a lot of info online is utter bullshit and in universities still there is an encouragement for students to research books.

[rereboy]

@Kaba:

Companies can't make money without satisfied customers. People keep missing this very important point.

They get some money even if they don't satisfy anyone because there will always be people who will try the product. The satisfaction of most of those people is what allows them to make more money, so they try to keep the majority satisfied. But if going the extra mile into pleasing the client won't translate into more extra gains, they simply won't bother.

This is basically what I said earlier, so I don't think I missed any point.

In short, at least from the industry's point of view, its not about any kind of recognition at all. It never was.

[Aohige_AP]

^HEY! I was gonna call you a commie, but you edited!

@Silence:

Robby laying down the truth and it is HEAVY.

I, like him, am one of the not-new anime fans.
I'm not quite as old as him, but pretty much everything on his list, I experienced too.

Things are different now. But what we did back then wasn't useless.

Back when anime was enjoyed by nth generation VHS tapes passed around in college anime clubs, US Rendition and USMC was still around, and Streamline had their Harmony Gold editions of "severely edited and chopped into shreds" releases…. you mean those days?

I still have Laser disc collections dusting in the closet btw.

[Kaba Kaba Fruit]

@Wolfwood:

This has to be one of the most bizarre threads i've read in a long while

If it's so difficult for you to understand, leave! I don't think I've made my point any more clearer than I've had when I started this thread. This is a real issue facing ALL anime fans of the 20th century. Either get with the fucking program or fuck off!
@eerie:

you have entered the twilight zone

neeeneeneeeenurrrneeeneeeneeenurrrr

You want to show contempt, eerie? Then you can join Wolfwood and fuck off too! I don't have time to be dealing with contemptuous 7-year-olds like yourself.
@valiantt:

So to summarize the intent of this thread: "I deserve attention because I bought old stuff."

If there was a medium that you strongly believed in but had little to no chance of survival in the west and you were willing to fight tooth and nail to support it towards its success, wouldn't you want recognition when its success turns out to be accredited towards people who had nothing to do with the original fight but still believe that their efforts were the ONLY efforts that mattered? Let me answer that for you: Of COURSE you would. Why not? I'm honestly surprised that you're not getting it here.
@RobbyBevard:

This stuff doesn't matter.

No…it matters. Otherwise, the R1 anime industry would be dead. The Japanese would've deemed America to be an unmarketable region for anime and that's that. You can't compare anything else. It matters, Robby.

If you want to talk about how the community was different once upon a time, or the shared experiences older fans have, or even any random fan's experience when first discovering the genre, that is a topic that's kind of interesting.

-Being delighted by low quality bootlegs.
-Trusting an ad from a random stranger in a magazine ad that you write a check to and hope to get something back from.
-Getting vauge glimpses of Dragonball characters eventually having blonde hair and kids because you see a wallscroll ad in Electronic Gaming Monthly.
-Seeing Akira for the first time and it being THE thing.
-Being amazed that there were boobs in Vampire Hunter D.
-How superior Lupin III, Slayers, Ranma, Evangelion, Tenchi , Gundam Wing and Dragonball are to anything coming out now.
-Watching pokemon in raw japanese and finding out there are banned episodes.
-When you first saw anime sliding over to digital animation in say, Love Hina and being wowed by the sharpness of the line and the vibrancy of the color.
-Realizing that "Miyazaki" is probably a name you should actually be able to talk about and see the entire library of.
-Making a long trek to a far away theatre to seee one of the super rare screenings of Princess Mononoke instead of Toy Story 2!
-Going to anime cons ("back when they only had hundred of people, not thousands") when they were still sort of new and you could discover Trigun or Berserk, and a once a year jaunt to an anime con or chinatown were the only ways TO find a new discovery.
-Discovering wallscrolls instead of posters.
-Seeing cosplay for the first time.
-Discovering that there was an entire subgenre of something called "hentai".
-Being at an anime con and hearing somebody drive by while playing the Outlaw Star theme in their car and trying your damndest to recognize it from anime meetings, and ultimately deciding it must be the Crayon Shin Chan theme.
-When it took years instead of hours to get the latest shows, and only a handful would make it here.
-When Powerpuff Girls hit and was a total anime parody.

Do you realize that these were all tiny factors that helped grow the anime fandom bit by bit to help ensure that the industry as a whole could survive here in the west? You look at these things as just mere nostalgia, a real anime fan looks at these things as evolution towards future success of a medium.

That's all interesting. That's nostalgia and a batch of stories anyone into anime experiences. They're mutual shared experiences that everyone has, but also vary greatly. 8 years ago with Naruto, 15 years ago with Dragonball and Sailor Moon, or 25 years ago with Robotech and Starblazers, or even 30 or 40 years ago with Speed Racer and Kimba, can all share, an experience that you just can't get today in the digital age.

Again, all factors that helped grow the industry to what it is today. Without the support from dedicated fans, the medium would be dead in the water here.

If that's what you want to talk about, share stories of the old days, go ahead. There is a history and a unique experience there to be shared that to some degree, "kids today" won't ever get.

Kids today don't get a LOT of things, Robby. One of them being that they believe that THEY are the ones who made anime popular in the west just by watching cartoon fucking network and downloading illegal fansubs. These kids need to get their heads out of their asses and realize that the movement predates that. However, knowing them and their 4chan-esque tendencies, they won't get the message and the sad part is: the R1 industry would rather spoon feed their arrogance instead of clearing the air as to who really supported anime back during its "experimental phase." You and I BOTH know this.

You can have much the same argument about how kids today will never appreciate Nintendo and Super Nintendo games properly because they started with a Playstation.

Well, last I checked, the Nintendo Entertainment System saved the video game industry from total collapse in the 80's. Hell, you can argue that Sony and Microsoft wouldn't even have had their consoles on the market if a few Japanese dudes from Nintendo didn't make the effort to convince western electronic dealers that the Nintendo Entertainment System was a worthwhile investment. This is a piece of history that everyone ought to know, including kids. However, this is a separate topic and not relevant to the current discussion at hand. Next.

The fact that someone came to the hobby more recently, or is younger, or simply hasn't experienced a thing you personally really enjoyed, doesn't diminish the fact they get enjoyment out of it. The fact you came to it earlier and had a harder time getting access to it doesn't automatically make you a better fan.

That's beside the point! The people who had a "harder time getting access" were the ones who believed in the medium and were willing to work tooth and fucking nail to see it have more widespread success in the west. Carl Macek made a dent but not enough to convince mainstream companies that more titles are worth looking into. The fans had to make their voices heard in order for any distro company to give a damn enough to release more titles. Research ADV!

To just want credit, a random bit of recognition for having gone to those lengths to get more of what you enjoy? Back when it was a little harder by default and everyone went through that? (Especially when some went through that, and then contributed hugely to the community in more than just $.)

Again, without the contribution of the fandom, the industry would've folded in the west. Period. It is for that contribution that the fans need recognition. End. of. story.

That's stuff doesn't matter.

It. Matters.
@rereboy:

They get some money even if they don't satisfy anyone because there will always be people who will try the product. The satisfaction of most of those people is what allows them to make more money, so they try to keep the majority satisfied. But if going the extra mile into pleasing the client won't translate into more extra gains, they simply won't bother.

This is basically what I said earlier, so I don't think I missed any point.

Your original post was just too arbitrary. It leads one to believe that companies will make money regardless of whether the product is good or crap. Sure, companies can make an initial gain from customers who try the product but if they want to make long-term gains, then they need to ensure that their product is up to satisfaction so people will continue to buy said product. Otherwise, you're putting your company to a slow death.

In short, at least from the industry's point of view, its not about any kind of recognition at all. It never was.
Give me a fucking break! There had been no guarantees whatsoever for the medium to had been successful in the 80s and 90s. The subject matter being put out made the medium questionable as a whole. You're living in an alternate dimension if you think anime always had the good recognition that it had.
@Aohige_AP:

Supporting the creators do cross a large portion of my mind, but the majority of the motivation is fulfilling my materialistic desires.
I don't buy just because, I buy because I WANT.

As an anime fan, remember that support for the industry's success comes first. That's what the original intent is all along if the industry is to become mainstream. Don't forget that.
@Silence:

Robby laying down the truth and it is HEAVY.

Not the whole truth.

Things are different now. But what we did back then wasn't useless.

Then why aren't we recognized for it?

In fact, we should be proud that we helped

anime reach the sort of audience it does now.

Nobody is disputing that. The dispute here is in regards to today's audience taking credit for today's popularity of the medium when it's clearly not the case here. These are the same people who would rather be cheap and cry to the industry than accept what's being given to them thanks to all the hoops the R1 industry had to jump through.

I was the president of my highschool's

anime club, and we experienced the fandom just as the wave of anime was really breaking on our shores.
We raised money to go to conventions! We had viewing parties. We pooled our resources to try shows old and new.
That was great! It was great! _We were great. We had good times.

Sounds like you did too, Kabba._

Then you should understand why it's important for the industry to recognize our efforts to help make it what it is today! _> But the times they are a changin'.

Some for the better, but mostly for the worse.

I take pride that I was there when it first got started,
But I paid for that pride in overpriced DVDs, "bucolic nonentities", and chinatown VHSes with subtitles typed by drunken monkeys.
And thank GOD I don't have to do that crap anymore: put down $30+ bucks on two episodes and wait months and months for the next disc?
I wouldn't wish it on kids today. We have got it so much better now.

That's the biggest bunch of bullshit I ever heard in my life. The industry is going into the red because we have it so much better now! No convenience is worth R1 companies from having to accumulate debt for massive overhead in relation to production, licensing, and promotions! Anime was expensive for a reason! You got your tapes and discs in the end. That's ultimately what matters, Silence! If you can't understand this, you have no business watching anime!

Our labors have borne fruit. Go out and enjoy them for chrissake._
I enjoy anime. I DON'T enjoy the anime fandom nor the current industry that takes the medium for granted.

[IgorGB]

@Friend:

@Kaba Kaba: If I were you I wouldn't worry about the new fans, some of which are the same people who change their favourite anime every so called "season"

There is nothing wrong with that!

And I still don't get what kind of respect the original poster wants.

[rereboy]

@Kaba:

Your original post was just too arbitrary. It leads one to believe that companies will make money regardless of whether the product is good or crap. Sure, companies can make an initial gain from customers who try the product but if they want to make long-term gains, then they need to ensure that their product is up to satisfaction so people will continue to buy said product. Otherwise, you're putting your company to a slow death.

I think my post was clear enough, but in any case I explained it better now.

[Silence]

@Aohige_AP:

Back when anime was enjoyed by nth generation VHS tapes passed around in college anime clubs, US Rendition and USMC was still around, and Streamline had their Harmony Gold editions of "severely edited and chopped into shreds" releases…. you mean those days?

I still have Laser disc collections dusting in the closet btw.

That's right! US Manga Corps represented so much all the anime we watched in middle school, back when I was but a wee Silence.

We'd raid Blockbuster Video for Project A-Ko, Art of Fighting, MD Geist, Gal Force… especially anything that aired on the Sci-Fi Channel's Saturday Anime - like Patlabor or Lodoss (still one of my all time favorite series). All my friends would have sleepovers in my basement on Friday nights, where we'd spend all night glued to video games and Cinemax. And as we groggily woke up in the morning, peeking out from the shelter of our pillow forts and blanket tents, flip on the Sci-Fi channel and see the stuff our parents definitely wouldn't want us to see: like AKIRA, Vampire Hunter D, and X.

One of my cousins had introduced me to Robotech before that, but I think I was too young at the time to remember much of it. He was a cartoonist - much older, very cool.
While he was sketching out comics on his easel, I'd be on the floor playing with his Valkyries, Buster Machines (!!!), AT-AT walker, and vast collection of Star Wars and Star Trek figurines.
I never had a Laser disc player, but he did. Can't for the life of me remember what we watched on it.
Most of what I remember viewing on laser disc came later, in my highschool's animation room (It usually wasn't anime, but it often was animated).

When we DID watch anime in that room, the screen was filled with Revolutionary Girls, and Magic Knights, Slayers, Sailors and Gunsmiths.
Hardsubbed, 3rd & 4th rate VHS Dragonball GT episodes, back when "why is Goku being voiced by a girl?" and "There's a Super Sayajin 4???" were the burning questions of my childhood.

I first visited my highschool's Animation Club before I started school there - stumbling upon it by accident, really - during one of those trips they have you take to see for yourself the school you're going to attend.
And seeing the familiar, stylized artwork my seniors had painted all over the walls there let me know that highschool was gonna be all right. It reassured me in a time I needed it most.

We got spoiled on "blonde Goku!!!" by - haha - those wall scroll ads in the back of EGM, damnit!
I'd almost forgotten that. But fond memories like these define me to this day, and I wouldn't trade them for the world.
…Ask me if I'd still want to pay 30-something dollars for two to three episode VHSes though, and you may get a different answer.

[wolfwood]

@IgorGB:

And I still don't get what kind of respect the original poster wants.

No one does. And that's what makes it so bizarre

It's like some absurd monty python sketch

[Silverblade]

Isn't high quality of the bought product the best kind of respect a customer can wish?

It would be a good idea to turn this otherwise confusing thread into a nostalgia one.

[Kaba Kaba Fruit]

@IgorGB:

There is nothing wrong with that!

Sure there is. It's called hypocrisy.

And I still don't get what kind of respect the original poster wants.

Okay, let me go through this AGAIN so you can understand it.

1. The anime industry is pretty much successful thanks to the support of the fans and the R1 industries that were willing to invest into it.
2. The R1 industry thanks its supporters. However, upon research, the majority of the fans who make up the support are generally credited as A: Viewers of Cartoon Network and to a lesser extent, B: Digital fansubbers.
3. Both A and B are SOLELY credited for their contributions to the industry and the industry does not recognize the struggles of the 80s and 90s which nearly destroyed anime from ever being successful in the west.
4. Anime was in an experimental phase during the 80s and 90s to which nothing save for extreme editing, punched up scripts and limited distribution could help keep it in the spotlight. Emphasis: Harmony Gold, Carl Macek, DiC, Haim Saban. Look them ALL up.
5. The experimental era did not allow anime to become more noticeable in the spotlight due to prejudices against the medium and bad scheduling as a result of poor decision making from television affiliates.
6. Casual pop culture fans, who in of themselves, were trying to keep their obsessions relevant despite being ostracized by their fellow peers, helped keep the momentum going by staging club meetings and publishing fanzines. Other companies were willing to distribute VHS OVAs at great prices to help promote the medium.
7. Fans purchased the OVAs and other anime related items to help show support for the industry. Their support PROVED that there was a demand for the medium in the west and as a result, companies kept releasing more titles, thus allowing the demand to grow.
8. That demand, for all intents and purposes, allowed channels like Cartoon Network to take notice and give the medium a shot. The rest, as they say, is history. Relevant history, but history nontheless.
9. That history is being ignored now in favor of today's youth. The contributions to the expensive purchases of anime are also ignored and disregarded entirely. Look up FUNimation and the Ultimate Uncut Special Editions of Dragonball Z for more info.

There you have it. Need more info? PM me.
@rereboy:

I think my post was clear enough, but in any case I explained it better now.

You didn't.
@Friend:

@Kaba Kaba: If I were you I wouldn't worry about the new fans, some of which are the same people who change their favourite anime every so called "season". Besdes it's a pretty sweeping generalisation of people who didn't have the chance to get vhs things. Although as for those new fans who don't know about the classics, I can guarantee there are probably a fair few of those new fans who will look into old series. Especially if they find out who inspired who, for example if they picked up early Naruto volumes they would find several references and author references to Toriyama. Despite our technological age, there are still kids who prefer doing things the old way ie read without using a computer to do it, otherwise we wouldn't have kids every year enrolling in history courses. Things are being digitalised but some information is best gathered in books, because quite a lot of info online is utter bullshit and in universities still there is an encouragement for students to research books.

Thanks for understanding. :) I really really appreciate this.
@Silence:

…Ask me if I'd still want to pay 30-something dollars for two to three episode VHSes though, and you may get a different answer.

If that money helps keep the industry going here in the west, you will pay that amount and like it.
@Wolfwood:

No one does. And that's what makes it so bizarre

It's like some absurd monty python sketch

I've made my point clear as day. Get it or leave.
@SilverBlade:

Isn't high quality of the bought product the best kind of respect a customer can wish?

Yeah, but the R1 industry can't pretend that customer interest isn't irrelevant to the future of anime in the west. They would be fools if they did.

It would be a good idea to turn this otherwise confusing thread into a nostalgia one.

There is NOTHING confusing here. I've made my point clear as day.

[Cyclone_Baroness]

Oh man. I remember the days of my high school anime club that was basically just a a couple of us from the Japanese class. Had to drive way out of my way to the only anime store near a college to go rent movies and shows. I remember we used to watch Ping Pong Club and Kite. Who boy…Kite was the first time I ever heard anyone use c U next Tuesday. My mind was blown lol.

@ Kabba. I'm still not entirely sure why you let it bother you so much that some kids aren't gonna know how things kinda got started. A lot will know, just depends on how far they take their fandom. I think if I hadn't been taking Japanese I wouldn't have looked up further info back in the day. I remember being stunned when I found out one of the Sailormoon characters I thought was a girl was actually a guy in the original. Or watching DBZ on the Japanese channel and it had no subs. I remember finding it funny that all that screaming they did in Japanese sounded like angry cats to me.

[Pochipochi]

Once upon a time in New York in the earliest of the 80s, twenty or so people at the age of 30 met in a small convention hall room, sitting in front of a small CRT Television set at a low volume, watching the spectacle of blurry anime while a woman standing next to the screen dubbed the dialogue in semi-real time with occasional pauses for extra notation.

And I wish these fuckin' kids who grew up with subtitled VHS tapes in the early 90s would realize that the industry didn't revolve around and start with them. these ingrates

I say a giant plaque right next to the 9/11 Memorial

[Friend of Luffy and Gon]

It's funny that some of these ingrates as you put it don't seem to realise Japan is interested primarily in the anime entertainment of the kids of Japan. If they can make money from kids from other countries then great if not meh they are hitting their primary demographics.

As for wider interest well lets look at this example. I got into the discworld books when I was 13, about 20 years after the first one came out. I didn't care that it was older than me, i liked the plot and all that so i tried it. I see entertainment as a time travelling affair, a bit of whatever you feel like from different times and places. If you are really determined to watch Dr. Who from the start then you can use the tech to get it probably or most of it. It is interesting though, the stuff you can learn about a series.

[FolhaS]

And how about them kids making fire with matches and lighters? Back in the day we used a couple of sticks or rocks and it took long minutes not a few seconds!

But now seriously, I can kinda get OP's feelings. He liked the culture, or sub-culture, that there was around oriental animation a decade ago. There were hardships but they usually paid of in the end. There is nothing wrong with nostalgia…
but now you're just being an hipster and nobody likes hipsters, always yapping "I knew of/did/liked it before it was cool".
More people can acess stories more easily than 10 years ago and that's a good thing. You can't say the internet and cell-phones suck just because back then we didn't even knew if the post-office would deliver our letter.
The world has evolved, you should too.

[Silence]

Not saying that you're this guy, Kaba,

But I, certainly, wouldn't want to respect someone who told me I ought to be bowing down and kissing their feet in gratitude for all their "sacrifices."
Especially if that person seemed to have a one-sided view of the way things were "back in the day." There was certainly good in it, but plenty that was ass about it as well,
You can't put on those rosy-tinted nostalgia shades if you want someone to look at you seriously. You gotta take 'em off and see at the world in front of you too!

Much like with anime, part of selling a product is the packaging.

When my younger friends visit, they look at my walls lined with DVDs and old stuff and marvel. When I talk about the way we used to do things,
I don't try to make them feel excluded. I tell them the stories they can relate to - the cool stuff, the silly stuff, the squick.
At my first convention, my mom went completely off on her own and bought a broadsword and a bowie knife. For herself! never having owned something like that before.
Afterwards I'd come home from school and see her swinging them around in the front hallway, just having a blast. My mom!

I tell my friends about how, to raise money for taking the club to conventions, we'd put together big Smash Bros Melee Tournaments,
And make a killing on selling overpriced baked goods to the competitors while they waited.
That kinda thing makes them interested - "Wow! We should do that!" "That sounds fun!"

They're stories everyone can find a little bit of themselves in.

If you come at people respectful of their experiences, they too will treat yours with respect.
I'm just happy that there are more anime fans, so who cares if there's more appreciation for the "old school" or less,
When there were great shows to enjoy then, and great shows to enjoy now?

I'm all about the inclusion. We're all fans together: that's what's important,
And I like just as many of the young brats as I do the ole' fogies.

[Kaba Kaba Fruit]

@Cyclone_Baroness[COLOR=#333333:

@ Kabba. I'm still not entirely sure why you let it bother you so much that some kids aren't gonna know how things kinda got started. A lot will know, just depends on how far they take their fandom. I think if I hadn't been taking Japanese I wouldn't have looked up further info back in the day. I remember being stunned when I found out one of the Sailormoon characters I thought was a girl was actually a guy in the original. Or watching DBZ on the Japanese channel and it had no subs. I remember finding it funny that all that screaming they did in Japanese sounded like angry cats to me.

Cyclone, these kids are taking CREDIT for the start of anime's success in the west as a result of their cheapskate attitudes! They believe that there was NO anime industry prior to the year 1998 when Cartoon Network started their Toonami block! They believe that with Toonami + downloading illegal fansubs, they've helped START the whole anime fandom in the west. THIS IS WRONG! The anime fandom predates this by a good couple of decades! Toonami and all major R1 distributors got their start BECAUSE of the tape traders and the dedicated fans who were willing to wake up at the wee hours of the night to watch adult anime. Hell, you can even argue that the Robotech fandom contributed to the development of the success of the medium in the west and this was all under Carl Macek's watch! To add insult to injury, the R1 industries are kowtowing to these kids by providing them with cheaper alternatives to the medium while pulling the rug out from all the dedicated fans who helped carry the industry forward into the 21st century! The cheaper alternatives, while convenient, do NOT offset the expenditures incurred by the R1 licensees to help bring anime into the west. The industry is going into the red and the real contributions by the fans of the 20th century are being treated nothing more than an afterthought. It's bullshit!
@PochiPochi:

And I wish _these fuckin' kids who grew up with subtitled VHS tapes in the early 90s would realize that the industry didn't revolve around and start with them. these ingrates

I say a giant plaque right next to the 9/11 Memorial_

PochiPochi, I hope that wasn't sarcasm. We're not asking for a damn plaque, just acknowledgement for our efforts. Nothing more, nothing less.
@Friend:

It's funny that some of these ingrates as you put it don't seem to realise Japan is interested primarily in the anime entertainment of the kids of Japan. If they can make money from kids from other countries then great if not meh they are hitting their primary demographics.

It may be business as usual but common sense should dictate for these industries that their medium came this close to being an absolute unmarketable flop in the west without dedication and support from those who were willing to fight for it. If the Japanese industry doesn't want to recognize this, then this is bad gratitude and selfishness on a whole new level. Don't take your audiences for granted, no matter what age they are.
@FolhaS:

But now seriously, I can kinda get OP's feelings. He liked the culture, or sub-culture, that there was around oriental animation a decade ago. There were hardships but they usually paid of in the end. There is nothing wrong with nostalgia…
but now you're just being an hipster and nobody likes hipsters, always yapping "I knew of/did/liked it before it was cool".
More people can acess stories more easily than 10 years ago and that's a good thing. You can't say the internet and cell-phones suck just because back then we didn't even knew if the post-office would deliver our letter.
The world has evolved, you should too.

You're COMPLETELY missing my point, Folha! I really did want anime to become more mainstream in the west and I am very happy for it that it did. The only thing that gets on my goat is the fact that the popularity of anime is being revolved around today's generation who wants to take full credit as a result of online pirating and watching nothing but CN despite the fact that the fandom existed prior! This fandom is being thrown under the bus in favor of today's fandom who basically want to receive everything and pay virtually nothing! Today's fandom doesn't even realize that the old fandom had to pay up the wazoo just to keep the medium alive here in the west lest it folds up and dies due to the Japanese licensors believing that North America is unmarketable for the medium! It's a much deeper issue than you realize and you're not looking at it from the other side of the table here!
@Silence:

Not saying that you're this guy, Kaba,

I'm not saying I am.

But I, certainly, wouldn't want to respect someone who told me I ought to be bowing down and kissing their feet in gratitude for all their "sacrifices."
Especially if that person seemed to have a one-sided view of the way things were "back in the day." There was certainly good in it, but plenty that was ass about it as well,
You can't put on those rosy-tinted nostalgia shades if you want someone to look at you seriously. You gotta take 'em off and see at the world in front of you too!

First of all, I'm not demanding gratitude. I just want people to use common sense here and be more educated to what had really been going on in the anime industry in the west during these past few decades. If you do, you can see that there was a lot of work that needed to be done to get anime to what it is today. Once upon a time, anime was disregarded as those "damn jap toons" and be relegated to death slots on television and be put way in the back in video rental stores. This stigma could've led the industry to crash and burn as early as the mid-90s if it weren't for dedicated anime clubs and fans who were willing to give the medium a chance even in its most trying of times. Last time I checked, the 90's may had been 20 years ago but 20 years isn't ancient history. There is more than enough to reflect here. All I'm asking is for people to understand and recognize this. Secondly, we're ALL aware of the good and ass times that happened back in the day. The good? People enjoyed a new medium and how it broke conventions that couldn't be shown in the west. The ass? Not enough promotion and what got shown on TV was just patronizing kiddie fare stuck in death slots. This is why it took the dedication of the most dedicated to keep the medium alive and to prove to the Japanese companies that anime is marketable here. Thirdly, I'm being DEAD serious here when I'm talking about recognition for the fandom. This has nothing to do with rose-tinted nostalgia shades. This is about efforts in securing anime's future in America and people recognizing what had to be done to get it to what it was. To credit solely CN and online piracy is wrong and a total whitewash of history! Please do your research!

Much like with anime, part of selling a product is the packaging.

Which anime really needed to even get any recognition.

If you come at people respectful of their experiences, they too will treat yours with respect.
I'm just happy that there are more anime fans, so who cares if there's more appreciation for the "old school" or less,
When there were great shows to enjoy then, and great shows to enjoy now?I just want people to care about those that made the enjoyment of their medium what it is today, not take credit for the present by disregarding the past.

[Godsleftsock]

What is the OP crying about? I do not understand

[*Meh*]

I am also of Kaba's generation.

I was proud to support the industry when I could because I thought that the prices might drop someday, to a point that buying one VHS tapeevery month wouldn't stretch my budget to its limits. Of course, now I'm more poor than I was then, so my situation hasn't changed much. But, at least someone else can enjoy reduced price anime and manga thanks to the work of fans that decided that translating and importing comic books and cartoons could make them money and satisfy their craving for entertainment, as well as those fans that spent money buying those cartoons and comic books.

But back then, I wasn't aware of the people who had come before me. I didn't appreciate their contribution.

Now I do.

In the next twenty years, will the contribution of the post-2006 to 2018 anime fans be forgotten? Sadly, it may be so. Every new generation thinks that it is the first to know how to fix the world, the first to discover sex, and the first to really "get" anime.

Here's to Kaba and me. Here's to all who came before to lay the groundwork we built upon, and to all those who have reaped the benefits while ensuring that a cottage industry could become a lucrative entertainment market. And here's to all of those fans yet to be born.

Huza
ken ja ne!

[Kaba Kaba Fruit]

@Godsleftsock:

What is the OP crying about? I do not understand

If it is so fucking hard for you to understand, sock boy, then leave the thread. We don't need clueless yuppies coming in here.

And for the record, crying and complaining are two very different things.

[fdsfgfs]

When I was young, I always laughed at the 1 or 2 turbonerds in school who were really into anime in an open fashion. Chii ears on a dude who should have started shaving a year ago? Wonderful, thanks for that. I still think that going to cons is pretty stupid, but if someone wants to spend their time and money in that sort of pursuit, then of course it's fine. I opted for realmedia episodes even back then and spent my allowance on Magic cards and LAN center time, not much better than saving up for a box set of Escaflowne or a limited edition Armitage or something.

I can see why the extremists who dedicated a lot of themselves to a 'movement' only to find that it was really just cool comics and tv shows and not a lifestyle after all might be pretty pissed, but again these are probably the same turbonerds with the rolly backpacks.

It looks like this thread is over but I like to get my two cents in as much as the next guy, so there it is.

Edit: Did anyone watch Lensman when they were young?

[Silence]

@fdsfgfs:

When I was young, I always laughed at the 1 or 2 turbonerds in school who were really into anime in an open fashion. Chii ears on a dude who should have started shaving a year ago? Wonderful, thanks for that. I still think that going to cons is pretty stupid, but if someone wants to spend their time and money in that sort of pursuit, then of course it's fine. I opted for realmedia episodes even back then and spent my allowance on Magic cards and LAN center time, not much better than saving up for a box set of Escaflowne or a limited edition Armitage or something.

I can see why the extremists who dedicated a lot of themselves to a 'movement' only to find that it was really just cool comics and tv shows and not a lifestyle after all might be pretty pissed, but again these are probably the same turbonerds with the rolly backpacks.

It looks like this thread is over but I like to get my two cents in as much as the next guy, so there it is.

I'm curious: what exactly about going to cons do you not like?

[fdsfgfs]

@Silence:

I'm curious: what exactly about going to cons do you not like?

It's sort of hard to pin down, but the essence of it is that I'd be very reticent to spend money and time, of which I have less and less these days. I'm not fanatical or obsessive about anime and manga - in fact, I hardly watch any anime at all these days and am reading maybe 5 or 6 series regularly - and I'm not sure I'd enjoy the company of those who are. If I had more friends who were really into it and wanted to go to a con, I'd probably do it. But I don't, and the event itself actually sounds unpleasant to me. I really really enjoy the medium, but to me manga is and always has been a very fun diversion, not a lifestyle.

[Davy Jones]

When I first watched Bakemonogatari this July, I felt like I was in Nirvana.