One Piece Ten (ONE PIECE 展), new amazing event in Japan.

[Monkey King]

@Tyrano:

Oda has unfortunately used this mark multiple times in this series including the introduction of "glorious" Wano country (obviously based on Japan) and Pagaya's boat on Skypiea

If you think his depiction of Wano is glorious than you aren't actually looking at it at all.
It's really obvious that he's having fun with stereotypes and mostly HISTORY to kind of poke fun at Japan in an endearing way. Late Tokugawa Japan by the look of it, and by extension modern Japan as well in some ways.
I mean it's not subtle either, it's really really obvious.
The use of the rising run flag isn't pushing WW2 Japan either, though it's perfectly legitimate for Asians to be offended by it. But I hope you don't actually think Oda is some Imperial Japan lover or something because of it lol.
If anything in Japanese culture it seems to have a sort of hokey older fashioned vibe to it I think. Something a dopey old man like Pagaya would use, and useful (in Japan) to represent the old fashioned Japan of Wano. The flag after all being in use since the Meiji restoration, not just the Imperial/militaristic era.

I know it's not entirely the same thing but I dare say this was something like a German artist exhibiting his art work in Jewish war memorium and containing their glorious past symbol of the Nazi mark.

It's a little different in that the Nazi flag was 100% about the Nazis, Hitler literally designed it lol. The rising sun wasn't any such thing. It was put in official place like 70 years before Japan went fascist and crazy. And I think existed casually before that. Though again, totally understand why it's seen that way.
I think the better comparison is the Confederate flag in the US.

We should forgive them, yes.
But we should never ever forget about it or like you put it "Get over it".

Agreed. Especially not as long as the scar that is North Korea continues to exist. Given that Japanese imperialism more or less led to the split after they were defeated.
He might as well have told you to get over the existence of North Korea lol.

–- Update From New Post Merge ---

@zxcv11791:

wtf? Taiwan is separate from China as Japan is from China with its own unique culture.

So you know absolutely nothing about Taiwan except that it's an independent nation. That's cool.
Why are you arguing about it again?
EDIT: Wait so you live there but don't know anything about it? Wowsers.

What are you talking about? The dialect here is called taiwanese. Mainland china calls it hokkien, but its known as taiwanese here.

Hi, I too come from a country that speaks a language from another place over some water with our own dialects of it.
Now let's say you wanted to come to our country. I'm sure you would not say "I don't know how to speak American" lol.

you're talking out of your ass now

Unless your a Taiwanese aborigine then no I'm not. If Oda is doing an island based on Chinese culture, he is sure as crap not picking the scant series of events that mostly just existed as backwash from the mainland that is the history of Taiwan.
Pretty sure he'd go for the like 4+ Millennia history of the mainland. Hell that's kind of what Taiwanese history is, a little piece of the overall story of China. Except super super super specific and peripheral.
It would be like doing a Greek OP island but ONLY basing the history on Crete. Who the heck would do that.

Taipei 101 is the most well known structure here. Its a mix of the old style with the new in its design, thats what makes it famous and interesting. Implying Oda won't have newer architecture designs is just plain dumb = =

One Piece does not have modern skyscrapers. No matter the design style or inspiration. End of discussion.
I love art deco skyscrapers like we have around here, they too are famous and interesting.
Being famous or interesting doesn't mean a thing has any place in One Piece.

[Darth]

@Monkey:

Good luck learning a language that doesn't exist.

That's an impressive show of ignorance. I'm honestly suprised. You are usually better then that.

@Monkey:

Historically speaking they are. Unless you're under the impression that the divide in Korea is some ancient thing rather than a result of WW2. Your grandparents are probably older than split Korea.
The same is every bit as true of Taiwan and China.

Mainland China isn't even some bizarro nightmare land like North Korea. It's difference from Taiwan these days in terms of everyday life is that it's like a rundown rusty smoky version of Taiwan. It's not the Korean night and day scenario anymore.

That is also not true, because major cultural differences exist between Mainland China and Taiwan. It's like saying that, for example, England and Germany are basicaly the same, because they are both anglo-saxon countries, belonging to the same cultural circle.

@Monkey:

There's just no way. Taiwan was barely populated and built up prior to 1949. It was boonies for both Japan and China when they ruled it.
So historically there's nothing much to write about in regards to Taiwan, to base an OP island off of that is supposed to be One Piece China.
And I doubt he's going to base it off post-49', unless Kano ….has "Mainland Kano" lol.

And where is the problem with population, consireding how small kingdoms are in One Piece? He does historical kingdom of Tungning to base it on, for example.

And if he want's it to be based on China itself, then he is in wrong country.

[zxcv11791]

@Monkey:

he is sure as crap not picking the scant series of events that mostly just existed as backwash from the mainland that is the history of Taiwan.
Pretty sure he'd go for the like 4+ Millennia history of the mainland. Hell that's kind of what Taiwanese history is, a little piece of the overall story of China.

Christ you're an ignorant prick

@Monkey:

One Piece does not have modern skyscrapers. No matter the design style or inspiration. End of discussion.
I love art deco skyscrapers like we have around here, they too are famous and interesting.
Being famous or interesting doesn't mean a thing has any place in One Piece.

Yes, because you know every island in the grand line. God forbid there be modern buildings, its not like there are anything futuristic at all like robots or mechas in the OP universe. Oh wait….

@Monkey:

Hi, I too come from a country that speaks a language from another place over some water with our own dialects of it.
Now let's say you wanted to come to our country. I'm sure you would not say "I don't know how to speak American" lol.

Except your words were "a language that doesn't exist". And I do believe this is ENGLISH i'm typing in, so I have no idea what your'e going on about.

[Monkey King]

@Darth:

That's an impressive show of ignorance. I'm honestly suprised. You are usually better then that.

Oh I'm sorry is the Taiwanese dialect unintelligible to Min Nan?
Or perhaps it's their dialect of Mandarin that you want to argue as unintelligible with Mandarin.

Because if you can understand the other guy, you're speaking the same language.
The only thing that makes a dialect into a language is national pride of a certain sort. Even though it makes no sense.

Oh boo hoo hoo, my precious speech is from or shared with another place and is not ultimately unique to here. Boo hoo hoo.
sympathy not forthcoming from anyone who lives in the Western Hemisphere

That is also not true, because major cultural differences exist between Mainland China and Taiwan.

Such as ___, and ____, and also ____.

It's like saying that, for example, England and Germany are basicaly the same,

This is nothing like that.
Taiwan's Chinese population is super recent, as in… much of it younger than Connecticut (16th to 17th century)
To say nothing of the huge surge and cultural definitions that came alongside the retreating Nationalists in 1949.

You are comparing this to the Anglo-Saxon invasions that…

1. Occurred in like the 600's
2. Before any such thing as Germany or Germans existed. Let alone English.
3. Resulted in cultural assimilation and mixture with the native Romanized-Celtic population, unlike Taiwan where the people in both major waves were literally just settlers from China who did not mix with the scant aboriginal population in any meaningful way.

If Connecticut had stayed populated almost soley by English people and in British control until after WW2, and also existed just off the coast of England during this whole time. Yeah I imagine I would talk about us as being basically English.
However we experienced massive levels of immigrants, had a HUGE geographical distance and thus disconnect from England proper, and became independent around 1776.
That being said English cultural things still exist around here, such as village greens, every goddamned town name, the uh language, and the framework of cultural/political instiutions that Puritans had.
That and the half of my family that is English in origin I freely describe as being English.

English speaking Canadians have deep weird relations to the UK that all but comes close to thinking of themselves as a distant piece of them to this day. They love platering the queen on everything they can for instance. But even they have also experienced that major level of non-English immigration, and culturally have become more defined by us again because of geographical distance from Britain and proximity to us.
Taiwan has neither a US nor that distance.

because they are both anglo-saxon countries, belonging to the same cultural circle.

Yes, but a MUCH more distant wide circle than China/Taiwan.
The real comparison here would be with the Sinosphere idea which includes China (and Chinese places like Taiwan and Singapore), Japan, the Koreas, and Vietnam partly.

[Tyrano]

@Monkey:

If you think his depiction of Wano is glorious than you aren't actually looking at it at all.
It's really obvious that he's having fun with stereotypes and mostly HISTORY to kind of poke fun at Japan in an endearing way. Late Tokugawa Japan by the look of it, and by extension modern Japan as well in some ways.
I mean it's not subtle either, it's really really obvious.

Yeah I guess you are right.
I exaggerated with my expression there.
Oda seems to try to portray Wano as a very strong nation (island?), but it's not all high and mighty. Isolated and a bit stuck up, I think?

The use of the rising run flag isn't pushing WW2 Japan either, though it's perfectly legitimate for Asians to be offended by it. But I hope you don't actually think Oda is some Imperial Japan lover or something because of it lol.

While I do think that Oda isn't some maniac, I would be lying if I say I'm not disheartened to see such things.
He changed the Whitebeard flag to not offend European readers who confused his mark for Nazi symbol, but I don't think he ever addressed any issues with Imperial Japan flag to his Asian readers outside of Japan.
This time as well. I think I saw on the news that Oda didn't comment about this cancellation of an exhibition.
I do not live in Korea but I know many people in my Korean forum who were excited to finally get a One Piece event in Korea.
It is a disappointment and other people are already jumping to conclusions that Oda values his Japanese readers over any other Asian readers (which I totally understand, but still).

It's a little different in that the Nazi flag was 100% about the Nazis, Hitler literally designed it lol. The rising sun wasn't any such thing. It was put in official place like 70 years before Japan went fascist and crazy. And I think existed casually before that. Though again, totally understand why it's seen that way.
I think the better comparison is the Confederate flag in the US.

I see. Again, I admit some exaggeration.
But yeah, Koreans do hate that mark and consider it a flag of war criminals of former Japan.
Imagine our media's outrage when one of the crowd cheering for Japan in this year's World Cup had a face painting of that rising sun.

[Monkey King]

@zxcv11791:

Christ you're an ignorant prick

Please detail the exciting deep unique and not in anyway related directly to the mainland history of Taiwan.
To count it has to not just be something happening on the mainland that leads to someone or many someones retreating to Taiwan.
It's funny that all the people from Singapore I've ever known don't share this goofy attitude.
They're like "Yeah we're a mostly Chinese place, I'm Chinese, talks about family history back in Canton from ages back".
You're seriously acting like…

1. It's INSULTING to say you're an offshoot of another place. You're thinking an American from a place literally called New England is insinuating this lol.
2. Like you don't comprehend the difference between ethnicity and nationality. And that being called Chinese in any fashion is insulting because somehow that only refers to the Communist mainland government…somehow.

Trust me, I have extensive experience in the differences here both in regards to being from the New World (irl version) and being married with a Greek-Cypriot. A place that sure as crap has no illusions about their relationship to the main Greek area of Greece proper. And boy, they've been doing THAT since the Shang Dynasty!

Yes, because you know every island in the grand line. God forbid there be modern buildings,

Yes, god forbid.
Because it would be incredibly out of place and stylistically retarded. The sort of world building carelessness that exists in crap like Rave Master and not Oda's incredibly careful layout.

its not like there are anything futuristic at all like robots or mechas in the OP universe. Oh wait….

It's almost like the existence of those things is explained entirely by one character, whose entire gimmick is that that the things he's making are out of place and jarring in comparison to the rest of the world.
Now we're headed deeper and deeper away from government territory. To places Vegapunk would not have access to.
And we have already seen all three major military sites (including a city), as well as the capital of the world. And nary a modern skyscraper in sight! Almost like it's not happening or something.

Except your words were "a language that doesn't exist". And I do believe this is ENGLISH i'm typing in, so I have no idea what your'e going on about.

I'm saying you're not typing in American, you're typing in English.
Because American isn't a language, it's a group of dialects OF English.
American and Taiwanese both do not exist as languages (or as single specific dialects for that matter).

–- Update From New Post Merge ---

@Tyrano:

Yeah I guess you are right.
I exaggerated with my expression there.
Oda seems to try to portray Wano as a very strong nation (island?), but it's not all high and mighty. Isolated and a bit stuck up, I think?

Provincial, overly proud to the point of dumb stubborness, and a bit backwards.
I honestly think the main thing Oda wants to do with Wano is just have fun playing around with Japanese history.
It would be like if Oda was Italian and had a comic like One Piece where they went to a Rome island.
And no, not the WW2 era history. The super isolationist Tokugawa era history, with a dash of when Japan was being forced to come out of isolation.
So think…right before Rurouni Kenshin's time period for reference.
Wouldn't be surprised if Kaido was playing a sort of Commodore Perry esque role.

While I do think that Oda isn't some maniac, I would be lying if I say I'm not disheartened to see such things.
He changed the Whitebeard flag to not offend European readers who confused his mark for Nazi symbol, but I don't think he ever addressed any issues with Imperial Japan flag to his Asian readers outside of Japan.

That's an interesting point actually.
I wonder who exactly made that choice though? Do we know? It could have been editors rather than Oda himself, and uh frankly WE over here should have got over that. I mean it's not like Hetalia or anything and it had zero Nazi implications. It was a Manji not a swaztica after all.
In the earlier One Piece volumes here where a few other Manjis showed up the English company just added little notes explaining it wasn't a Nazi thing, and we have the largest Jewish population outside of Israel soooo it was fine mostly.
If anything the choice should be the complete opposite. With us not being sated, and you guys being sated.

It is a disappointment and other people are already jumping to conclusions that Oda values his Japanese readers over any other Asian readers (which I totally understand, but still).

Well of course he does lol. Everyone values their home team the most. Nothing wrong with that.

I see. Again, I admit some exaggeration.
But yeah, Koreans do hate that mark and consider it a flag of war criminals of former Japan.
Imagine our media's outrage when one of the crowd cheering for Japan in this year's World Cup had a face painting of that rising sun.

Ah it's very awkward yeah. I think Japan should be able to keep using it to some extent as clearly they don't remotely associate it with WW2…..BUT they can only really do that once their country isn't total shit about facing up to that past. They must work for that particular piece of cake.

[Darth]

@Monkey:

Oh I'm sorry is the Taiwanese dialect unintelligible to Min Nan?
Or perhaps it's their dialect of Mandarin that you want to argue as unintelligible with Mandarin.

Because if you can understand the other guy, you're speaking the same language.

Funny. Because Standard Chinese and Taiwanese Hokkien are not mutually intelligeable. Also, not with Mandarin, not with Cantonese.

Allow me to explain what that means, in case you want to continue be ignorant:

No, you cannot understand the other guy. Thank you, that was your lesson in linguistic for today.

@Monkey:

Such as ___, and ____, and also ____.

Such as noticeable differences in language, because of japanese and western influences, differences in cuisine, social differences, political differences, philosophical differences, religious differences…

You will excuse me for not getting into details, I'm busy. There have been scientific articles on the subject, google it.

[zxcv11791]

@Monkey:

American and Taiwanese both do not exist as languages (or as single specific dialects for that matter).

Except they are. Also its American English. This may surprise you, but there is also British English. And things are also a little different, like check vs cheque.

@Monkey:

Yes, god forbid.
Because it would be incredibly out of place and stylistically retarded. The sort of world building carelessness that exists in crap like Rave Master and not Oda's incredibly careful layout.

So a fully functioning chemical plant complete with dragons is fine, but skyscrapers oooh nooo totally unrealistic. Logic out the window there.

@Monkey:

It's funny that all the people from Singapore I've ever known don't share this goofy attitude.
They're like "Yeah we're a mostly Chinese place, I'm Chinese, talks about family history back in Canton from ages back".
You're seriously acting like…

1. It's INSULTING to say you're an offshoot of another place. You're thinking an American from a place literally called New England is insinuating this lol.
2. Like you don't comprehend the difference between ethnicity and nationality. And that being called Chinese in any fashion is insulting because somehow that only refers to the Communist mainland government…somehow.

Great, I've lived in Singapore for 9 years too so I can call your bullshit. Yes people would get insulted there if you say they're just a backwash of the british empire or just pretty much the same thing as malaysia. I have no idea where you're getting the chinese place thing though. They're singaporean, not chinese.

[Monkey King]

@Darth:

Funny. Because Standard Chinese and Taiwanese Hokkien are not mutually intelligeable.

Standard Chinese = Taiwanese Mandarin dialect.
Because Standard Chinese = Mandarin.

Taiwanese Hokkien is as the name suggests…a dialect of Hokkien aka Southern Min (Min Nan). Min Nan is also spoken (shocker!) in Fujian right across the water on the mainland. Take a wild guess as to where the first major wave of Chinese people to populate Taiwan comes from originally!

So that's two main languages spoken in Taiwan. Min Nan and Mandarin. Of which it has it's own dialects that just add "Taiwanese" in front. Because they are just local versions of a language, not different languages.
Just like I speak and write American English (with a slight flavoring of New York/Connecticut in accent and word choices). But it's still fuckin' English.

No, you cannot understand the other guy. Thank you, that was your lesson in linguistic for today.

So you got confused and didn't notice that Taiwanese people speak mostly two languages. Both of which are dialects of a language from and shared by parts (Min Nan) or the whole (Mandarin) of the mainland. I don't even know why you mentioned Cantonese as it's a third language that has no presence on Taiwan.
Great lesson.

Such as noticeable differences in language,

That's a minor difference. They have a local flavor of a language from the mainland, and also a local flavor of the main language of the mainland. Once again, just minor offshoots of the mainland. In the end still defining them as being part of the larger Chinese culture.

because of japanese

Extremely brief modern Japanese influence.

and western influences,

So like the mainland then.

differences in cuisine,

So cuisine from Fujian and whatever the Nationalists brought over with them from China. So different Chinese cuisines basically.

social differences,

Such as ___.

political differences,

This is extremely recent modern history stuff.

philosophical differences, religious differences…

No and no lolllll. Jesus christ you're the one who doesn't actually know anything about Taiwan. Not the other guy.

[Darth]

@Monkey:

I'm saying you're not typing in American, you're typing in English.
Because American isn't a language, it's a group of dialects OF English.
American and Taiwanese both do not exist as languages (or as single specific dialects for that matter).

… Debates going between linguistic experts for DECADES on whatever or not that is true, and yet here you are.

Also, yes, America English was, at one point in time, different enough that it was considered a different language from British Islands English.

There were translators needed between the two, for crying out loud.

Your defiance to acknowledge that this might be possible for other languages is baffling.

[Monkey King]

@zxcv11791:

Except they are.

lollllllllllllll, American is not a fucking language. You will find exactly 0 Americans, or British people who will agree with you on that. Like literally zero.
Do you imagine that the British or American people who post on this forum…that one of the two is adjusting their language in any way to communicate with the others?
Do you imagine we have subtitles in movies and TV shows when someone with a British dialect starts talking??
Some Dutch Belgian girl tried this ridiculous argument before, it's a hoot. All you're going to get is Americans and British laughing.

This may surprise you, but there is also British English.

Yes, a British English formal way to write some words and stuff. Not a different language lolll.
It's obscenely minor irrelevant differences.

And things are also a little different, like check vs cheque.

We write it as both over here thanks for playing. Maybe you meant a wild out there example of different language like Lift vs Elevator. Or Cookies being called biscuits over there, where we mean just small round breads when we say biscuits, never cookies.
Such a vast linguistic chasm.
Also I like how you seem to be under the impression that I or most Americans do not actually encounter British dialects all the time.
The major American news channels hire British anchors casually, CNN has a whole bunch.

is on all the time.
To say nothing of the entertainment industry lol.

So a fully functioning chemical plant complete with dragons is fine, but skyscrapers oooh nooo totally unrealistic. Logic out the window there.

A hidden secret government base is significantly less jarring than a modern city that people actually live in that is directly visible and relevant to the wider world yes.
You don't "get" world building do you.
There's a reason Oda opts to make the more modern settlements look European style. With what modernity there is carefully laid into older buildings. Because that's what he wants to go for. Anything that looks like an East Asian city or Americas city wouldn't jive with that at all.

Great, I've lived in Singapore for 9 years too so I can call your bullshit. Yes people would get insulted there if you say they're just a backwash of the british empire or just pretty much the same thing as malaysia.

Probably because they are neither English nor Malay lol (well most of them aren't Malay anyway). They are the descendents of Chinese immigrants.

I have no idea where you're getting the chinese place thing though. They're singaporean, not chinese.

It's amazing how people can live somewhere and not know a damn thing about it, but hey there's people around here who probably wonder why there's a NEW in front of York too.

–- Update From New Post Merge ---

@Darth:

… Debates going between linguistic experts for DECADES on whatever or not that is true, and yet here you are.

Really? Describe the debate to me, I'm interested.

Also, yes, America English was, at one point in time, different enough that it was considered a different language from British Islands English.

That time was "Never AD".

There were translators needed between the two, for crying out loud.

lol what in the fuck are you talking about.

Your defiance to acknowledge that this might be possible for other languages is baffling.

Or I'm not from the Old World where people turn silly stuff like that into ridiculous nationalist wars of pride.
Like it's basic casual whatever over here to acknowledge that a thing came from another place and isn't unique to our precious clay.
It's almost like I'm actually the one with the clear head here untainted by a certain mindset.

[Darth]

@Monkey:

Really? Describe the debate to me, I'm interested.

Go read a book. John DeFrancis has written few good ones.

@Monkey:

That time was "Never AD".

Or up to first half of 20th century.

@Monkey:

lol what in the fuck are you talking about.

Example: First american movies with sound were shown in Great Britain with subtitles, because they were unintelligible.

@Monkey:

Or I'm not from the Old World where people turn silly stuff like that into ridiculous nationalist wars of pride.
Like it's basic casual whatever over here to acknowledge that a thing came from another place and isn't unique to our precious clay.
It's almost like I'm actually the one with the clear head here untainted by a certain mindset.

And here I thought nations have right for Self-determination. Guess I was wrong.

Anyway, you are ignoring the work of actual linguistic experts, who I'm pretty sure are not making political statements.

[zxcv11791]

@Monkey:

Taiwanese Hokkien is as the name suggests…a dialect of Hokkien aka Southern Min (Min Nan). Min Nan is also spoken (shocker!) in Fujian right across the water on the mainland. Take a wild guess as to where the first major wave of Chinese people to populate Taiwan comes from originally!

So that's two main languages spoken in Taiwan. Min Nan and Mandarin. Of which it has it's own dialects that just add "Taiwanese" in front. Because they are just local versions of a language, not different languages.
Just like I speak and write American English (with a slight flavoring of New York/Connecticut in accent and word choices). But it's still fuckin' English.

You're just putting your foot in your mouth at this point. Its not called "min nan" its taiwanese. Its known as hokkien in the mainland. You speak taiwanese to someone fluent with hokkien from the mainland they can tell in an instant you're from taiwan. Why? Because as they both developed their own unique styles. Taiwan had Mandarin and Taiwanese, nobody calls it Min Nan. Its quite literally "tai wan hua" or "taiwan speak", and in proper english, "taiwanese". I would think the many people who live there get to decide on what their language is called rather than yourself. You can argue semantics all you want, but its known as taiwanese, despite you denying its existence.

@Monkey:

lollllllllllllll, American is not a fucking language. You will find exactly 0 Americans, or British people who will agree with you on that. Like literally zero.

Are you kidding? British people make the distinction all the time that what Americans speak is "American English". Its different from their own. And yes, they sometimes even just call it "american" Its not the proper term, but you can't deny its existence.

@Monkey:

You don't "get" world building do you.
There's a reason Oda opts to make the more modern settlements look European style. With what modernity there is carefully laid into older buildings. Because that's what he wants to go for. Anything that looks like an East Asian city or Americas city wouldn't jive with that at all.

The grand line has worlds set up to look like different time periods with different cultures surrounding them. Hence the constant exploring of different places in an adventure manga. You have places in the sky, under water, futuristic cities, and a places that look like they're back in the stone ages. But tall buildings? Gosh that must be out of Oda's field of imagination. Maybe he isn't as narrow minded as yourself.

[joesephes]

@Monkey:

Good luck learning a language that doesn't exist.

Yeah sorry, I actually meant Mandarin Chinese.

My bad. ^^;

[Schabrak]

@Tyrano:

What??
I'm a Korean and didn't really want to get into this but you do realise Japan was Nazis of Asia?

Germans don't go putting Nazi marks everywhere. In fact they are so ashamed of that past.
Japanese? Their highest politicians visit the shrines of their supposed war criminals of world war 2 and talk as if they were heroes.
It's not everyone, but they are still yet to apologise or even admit the true atrocities of their past.

Of course I know that, who the fuck doesn't? Yet, it's very similar to the normal, current japanese flag. It's nothing but an insinuation that Oda has any ill intention while drawing that.

The nazi flag as the national flag only existed for a rather short amount of time, and the German Reich flag has different colors too. Pretty sure my current generation, even the one born in the 70s doesn't feel ashamed nor do we have a fucking reason to be ashamed of deeds we have no responsibility for. If anything we have the responsibility that it doesn't happen again, but shame is in no way part of it. Sadly it took us to 2006(WorldCup in germany) to be able to show the german flag on cars etc without fearing condemntion from the rest of the world.

Politicians != citizens.

[Monkey King]

@Darth:

Go read a book. John DeFrancis has written few good ones.

Oh ok so you're talking about a general linguistic book. And as indicated by your complete ignorance that Mandarin and Min Nan are different have no clue at all about the specific circumstances whatsoever.

Or up to first half of 20th century.

Literally never ever.
Also I love how this talk of yours ignores differing internal dialects within the two countries. It's far easier to understand the speech of many British people than it is some Southerners for me.

Example: First american movies with sound were shown in Great Britain with subtitles, because they were unintelligible.

If this is even true (cite that shit) that sounds like it was just because the first British audiences weren't used to hearing thicker American accents.
Not that it was a different language fool. If James Cagney or whoever the fuck slowed down his speech they wouldn't have had any issue at all.

Or you going to come in here and tell me that no part of Poland has accents that are thicker, slower, or faster? That makes it harder to understand if you're not familiar with the WAY they talk? Because this isn't about WHAT they're talking, it's HOW.
I've seen reality TV shows subtitle rural southerners at points not because it's a different language but because the way they talk is so thick and syrupy.
I've witnessed Chrissie not understand Joe Pesci, Joe Pesci who I can perfectly understand. And I can ASSURE you that all the words SHE uses, that I use, and that HE uses are the same words.

And here I thought nations have right for Self-determination. Guess I was wrong.

I don't think you know what that means. Or the comedy option: You have no idea what the discussion is about.

Anyway, you are ignoring the work of actual linguistic experts,

Namedropping a guy who wrote some stuff is not providing evidence of what I requested. Nice appeal to authority.

[zxcv11791]

@Schabrak:

Of course I know that, who the fuck doesn't? Yet, it's very similar to the normal, current japanese flag. It's nothing but an insinuation that Oda has any ill intention while drawing that.

The nazi flag as the national flag only existed for a rather short amount of time, and the German Reich flag has different colors too. Pretty sure my current generation, even the one born in the 70s doesn't feel ashamed nor do we have a fucking reason to be ashamed of deeds we have no responsibility for. If anything we have the responsibility that it doesn't happen again, but shame is in no way part of it. Sadly it took us to 2006(WorldCup in germany) to be able to show the german flag on cars etc without fearing condemntion from the rest of the world.

Politicians != citizens.

Similar to how Oda had to change Whitebeard's original symbol isn't it? No relation to the nazi swastika but still some people got the wrong idea.

[Panda Bear]

I have to admit, not the discussion I would have imagined going on in here when I went into the thread.

[Monkey King]

@zxcv11791:

You're just putting your foot in your mouth at this point. Its not called "min nan" its taiwanese.

Southern Min is the name of the language (or Hokkien), it has a Taiwanese dialect. It also has several mainland dialects who you apparently don't want to count because reasons.
Considering the language originated in the mainland and not Taiwan, it seems arrogant as hell to refer to it as Taiwanese. Much like trying to refer to English as American.

Its known as hokkien in the mainland.

Except that's a different dialect too.

You speak taiwanese to someone fluent with hokkien from the mainland they can tell in an instant you're from taiwan. Why?

Because different dialect. Are accents = languages now lol?

Taiwan had Mandarin and Taiwanese, nobody calls it Min Nan.

Then clearly that term is made up!

Its quite literally "tai wan hua" or "taiwan speak", and in proper english, "taiwanese". I would think the many people who live there get to decide on what their language is called rather than yourself.

1. Not a language. You pretty much just ADMITTED it wasn't a language matter of a fact.
2. The dialect IS called Taiwanese lol.

You can argue semantics all you want, but its known as taiwanese, despite you denying its existence.

It's not fucking semantics to distinguish between people being able to understand one another's words or not ahaha.

Are you kidding? British people make the distinction all the time that what Americans speak is "American English".

It must be an amazing experience living in a world where there is absolutely no middle ground between same language and different language. Like it's as if you outright don't believe in accents and dialects.
No fucking shit British people distinguish. Because we sound different from one another.

Its different from their own.

It sounds different (accent) and has miniscule word differences (most of which Americans know but the words come off as fancy and un-casual, like rubbish for garbage).
They are 99.9999% intelligible with one another.
Let me blow your mind further by pointing out that every corner of the UK has different sounding English, same with the United States.

And yes, they sometimes even just call it "american" Its not the proper term, but you can't deny its existence.

By your definition of what makes a language there is absolutely no such thing as English. Or American for that matter.

.

.

.

The grand line has worlds set up to look like different time periods with different cultures surrounding them.

Wrongo. Unless you see different styles of civilization as different time periods lol.
Seriously, what island was from a different time period in any way shape or form outside of Little Garden?
There's islands in rl with people still living in complete ignorance of outside civilization in a stone age fashion. It doesn't mean they are in a different time period lol.
Hell there's entire countries where that shit differs from one end to the other! China for instance!

Hence the constant exploring of different places in an adventure manga.

The One Piece world is globalized and shows universal forms of technology like Snail Phones that exist in backward and developed islands alike.

You have places in the sky,

We have the Skypieans who have some explanation as to how they got there and why.
And the Shandians who we know exactly how they got there and why from below.
Even the goddamn Shandians didn't stay static from their flashback to the present day. They had adopted and utilized the cloud technologies of their new environment and world and used firearms and other such things.

under water,

The Fishman only.

futuristic cities,

Uh…no?

and a places that look like they're back in the stone ages.

There are literally places right now in the real world that are still in the Stone Age.

But tall buildings? Gosh that must be out of Oda's field of imagination.

Imagination? Christ you're the most completely unappreciative person of One Piece I've ever encountered. You understand NOTHING about creating a living breathing fictional world, Oda is a master at it.
You think creativity is about doing anything? lolll
It's as much about what you don't do as what you do.

[zxcv11791]

@Monkey:

Considering the language originated in the mainland and not Taiwan, it seems arrogant as hell to refer to it as Taiwanese. Much like trying to refer to English as American.

Kinda more "arrogant as hell" decide yourself what it should be called when the entire country (including the mainland who makes the distinction) calls it Taiwanese, and then there is yourself. Jeesh, go ahead and argue its only a dialect. I'm sure everyone is getting really fed up with your ranting, and its hard to take anything you say seriously with your childish "loling".

@Monkey:

Imagination? Christ you're the most completely unappreciative person of One Piece I've ever encountered. You understand NOTHING about creating a living breathing fictional world, Oda is a master at it.
You think creativity is about doing anything? lolll
It's as much about what you don't do as what you do.

Yes, because I trust Oda can make something as simple as 'tall bulidings' work in the vast world he built that makes me unappreciative. Excellent reasoning.

[King Cannon]

@zxcv11791:

Yes, because I trust Oda can make something as simple as 'tall bulidings' work in the vast world he built that makes me unappreciative. Excellent reasoning.

I don't really see how a modern skyscraper would fit into the world of OP when even the most developed and modern cities there don't have such things.

Tall buildings can happen, but they would probably look ancient and special.

You mentioned earlier something about futuristic cities in One Piece. Where exactly?

[zxcv11791]

@King:

I don't really see how a modern skyscraper would fit into the world of OP when even the most developed and modern cities there don't have such things.

Tall buildings can happen, but they would probably look ancient and special.

You mentioned earlier something about futuristic cities in One Piece. Where exactly?

Singapore, island city with plenty of skyscrapers.

Yes, Oda would probably adapt skyscrapers to fit in some unique way. Maybe they look like giant trees or something, I don't know. But I'm not close minded enough to assume its impossible to even happen.

Karakuri Island, known as the "future country". Cyborgs, mechanical structures, etc.

[dailyfiber]

@zxcv11791:

Karakuri Island, known as the "future country". Cyborgs, mechanical structures, etc.

From what very little we've seen of Karakuri, it doesn't look that futuristic. It's more like a frozen wasteland than anything, and even bears lots of resemblance to the frozen side of Punk Hazard. It's known as the Future Kingdom due to Vegapunk's influence, and his blueprints were hundreds of years ahead of their time.

If you actually look at Karakuri's buildings, they aren't futuristic at all, they're just factories. We have the same thing on PH. Cyborg animals is one thing, but it certainly doesn't make the place feel like a city, or futuristic.

[zxcv11791]

@dailyfiber:

From what very little we've seen of Karakuri, it doesn't look that futuristic. It's more like a frozen wasteland than anything, and even bears lots of resemblance to the frozen side of Punk Hazard. It's known as the Future Kingdom due to Vegapunk's influence, and his blueprints were hundreds of years ahead of their time.

If you actually look at Karakuri's buildings, they aren't futuristic at all, they're just factories. We have the same thing on PH. Cyborg animals is one thing, but it certainly doesn't make the place feel like a city, or futuristic.

Its a winter island, of course its has ice. But they also have an in ground heating system that Vegapunk designed so its not exactly a "wasteland". Its perfectly capable of supporting people and animals unlike Punk Hazard. I'm not talking about a city with flying cars like Futurama or the jetsons, but Karakuri's tech is far above what we've seen from other islands. The factories are mechanized and create robots and such, its not exactly primitive.

[dailyfiber]

@zxcv11791:

Its a winter island, of course its has ice. But they also have an in ground heating system that Vegapunk designed so its not exactly a "wasteland". Its perfectly capable of supporting people and animals unlike Punk Hazard. I'm not talking about a city with flying cars like Futurama or the jetsons, but Karakuri's tech is far above what we've seen from other islands. The factories are mechanized and create robots and such, its not exactly primitive.

Fair enough. Still, while the tech may be advanced, most of that comes from the factory that Vegapunk built. While the island itself may have advanced tech, it doesn't mean the citizens are living in futuristic cities. I don't even remember if we saw any domiciles that the residents lived in. Then again, I could be wrong.

[gangonga]

Are we 100 percent sure that at Vegapunk's residing island we won't see even more outrageous futuristic staff than some tall buildings?Of course the futuristic theme(if it is used by Oda) will be in harmony with the overall feel of the One Piece world.

[zxcv11791]

@dailyfiber:

Fair enough. Still, while the tech may be advanced, most of that comes from the factory that Vegapunk built. While the island itself may have advanced tech, it doesn't mean the citizens are living in futuristic cities. I don't even remember if we saw any domiciles that the residents lived in. Then again, I could be wrong.

True, maybe island specializing in advanced tech might have been a better description.

The buildings in the background all look metal, they could just be factories, but still pretty advanced/futuristic when compared to some other winter island like Drum Island.

Also exterior looks aren't everything. Look at the island that Chopper went to, Torino Kingdom. The natives looked like primitive cavemen, but their medicine was advanced and weapons were mechanical in nature. If Vegapunk cared enough to make a heating system for the whole island I'm sure he provided some advanced living quarters for the inhabitants as well.

[kcity]

@gangonga:

Are we 100 percent sure that at Vegapunk's residing island we won't see even more outrageous futuristic staff than some tall buildings?Of course the futuristic theme(if it is used by Oda) will be in harmony with the overall feel of the One Piece world.

This pretty much. Pacifista's with laserbeams, electronic doors, monitoring and control rooms with screens that seem like higher tech than the bended ultra hd tv's of today coupled with live streaming. Of course it's all made to fit in the OP world, but why couldn't a skyscraper be an inspiration and stylized according to the OP the universe? I don't see it happening, but there's mucher more futuristic things than some buildings stacked on top of eachother. Oda just uses Den Den Mushi's, dials etc to justify tech in the OP world.

[Monkey King]

@zxcv11791:

Kinda more "arrogant as hell" decide yourself what it should be called

I'm not arguing what what is called. I'm arguing what qualifies as language or not.
It seems like you're either completely lost on the topic, or that you're trying to change the topic and manufacture a reason I'm a bad guy since your ship is sinking.

when the entire country (including the mainland who makes the distinction) calls it Taiwanese, and then there is yourself.

Ok so wait a second. Taiwanese Hokkien is Taiwanese, but then what do you called Taiwanese Mandarin? Also Taiwanese??

Jeesh, go ahead and argue its only a dialect.

This is a 100% a completely different topic than what we're NAMING them you doofus.

Yes, because I trust Oda can make something as simple as 'tall bulidings' work in the vast world he built that makes me unappreciative. Excellent reasoning.

I like how you've moved the goalposts from "ODA WILL PUT A MODERN SKYSCRAPER IN THE MANGA" to "TALL BUILDING".

Actually it kind of feels like your entire responses at this point are all moved goalposts or changed topics.

–- Update From New Post Merge ---

@zxcv11791:

Singapore, island city with plenty of skyscrapers.

This has literally nothing to do with his post.
There is not a single thing he said that this reponse has anything to do with.

Karakuri Island, known as the "future country". Cyborgs, mechanical structures, etc.

Except we saw it and it did not have a modern city on it. In fact it barely seemed to have any city on it at all.

[Bond en Avant]

I don't know if this helps any, but I'm Chinese and can understand what the Taiwanese say, so that would make their language Chinese, no?

[Monkey King]

@Bond:

I don't know if this helps any, but I'm Chinese and can understand what the Taiwanese say, so that would make their language Chinese, no?

If by that you mean their dialect of Mandarin. Absolutely lol.

As I said, it's like saying that British and American are different languages when they are in fact (groupings of) different dialects/accents.

[Aaronrules380]

There are seriously people arguing british English and American English are two different languages? I'm an American, but my parents are from South Africa. So what language do I speak? Or am I bilingual now?

[zxcv11791]

@Monkey:

I'm not arguing what what is called. I'm arguing what qualifies as language or not.
It seems like you're either completely lost on the topic, or that you're trying to change the topic and manufacture a reason I'm a bad guy since your ship is sinking.

You kinda were? Kinda with the whole "highly arrogant to call it anything different?" And for fucks sake, I just said its called taiwanese. You were the one going on ranting about how that didn't exist and its supposed to be called some other crap you found on wikipedia.

Also the whole Taiwan as a mere "backwash of China". So I don't really have to "manufacture a reason you're a bad guy" cause you kinda were a prick? But hey believe whatever you want.

@Monkey:

Ok so wait a second. Taiwanese Hokkien is Taiwanese, but then what do you called Taiwanese Mandarin? Also Taiwanese??

What the heck are you going on about? I keep saying its called Taiwanese, you can't seem to accept that fact? Mandarin is just mandarin. They don't call it Taiwanese Hokkien, just Taiwanese. Hokkien is what they call it in the mainland, how many times do I have to say it? And jee wiz I thought a moment ago it was Min An, not anything else and arrogant to call it anything different? Who is changing stuff now?

@Monkey:

I like how you've moved the goalposts from "ODA WILL PUT A MODERN SKYSCRAPER IN THE MANGA" to "TALL BUILDING".

Except I never said "Oda will put a modern skyscraper in the manga" just he might get inspired by Taipei 101. Great job putting words in my mouth though. You were the one that went on a hissy fit over how that would be impossible. Please don't twist it.

Is a skyscraper not a tall building? lol

@Monkey:

Actually it kind of feels like your entire responses at this point are all moved goalposts or changed topics.

I've kinda been stuck on the 'its just Taiwanese rather than whatever you're saying it should be', wagon the entire time so my goalpost is still sort of in the same place, dunno what you're talking about there.

Trying to change topics because I believe most people are tired of this crap?

@kcity:

This pretty much. Pacifista's with laserbeams, electronic doors, monitoring and control rooms with screens that seem like higher tech than the bended ultra hd tv's of today coupled with live streaming. Of course it's all made to fit in the OP world, but why couldn't a skyscraper be an inspiration and stylized according to the OP the universe? I don't see it happening, but there's mucher more futuristic things than some buildings stacked on top of eachother. Oda just uses Den Den Mushi's, dials etc to justify tech in the OP world.

Exactly, there is a island that is made of cake for fucks sake, its not like anything is outside the realm of possibilities. Nobody knows what sorts of islands could be next. I don't know for sure if Oda will ever do it, but I'm not arrogant enough to claim its impossible.

[playercena5241]

you need stop writing mean things to monkey kong. he me and Theresa friend. YOU ARE A JERK.

[zxcv11791]

@playercena5241:

you need stop writing mean things to monkey kong. he me and Theresa friend. YOU ARE A JERK.

You all can keep to the circle jerk to yourselves, Ill see myself out of this thread.

[Monkey King]

@zxcv11791:

You kinda were? Kinda with the whole "highly arrogant to call it anything different?" And for fucks sake, I just said its called taiwanese.

I was saying it was arrogant to call the language shared by two areas the name of the one that it went to from the other one.
Not that it was arrogant to refer to the dialect as such.
You're inability to know the difference between the two bolded things is the real problem we're having here.

You were the one going on ranting about how that didn't exist and its supposed to be called some other crap you found on wikipedia.

You're completely hopeless on following this conversation if you STILL don't understand what I said! It's amazing at this point. You're either not as good at reading English as you thought, or you're just kind of a clueless git.
I mean it's not just me here, bringing up Singapore having buildings out of the complete blue to King Cannon is another example. It's like you can't read or something. You can write but not read!

Also the whole Taiwan as a mere "backwash of China".

Historically yep. Also that isn't arrogance unless I were a Chinese mainlander or in ANY way Chinese. Of which I am not.
Sorry for geo-historical facts not dressing up your country as glorious.
Your modern history has been pretty cool, that good enough for you?

What the heck are you going on about? I keep saying its called Taiwanese, you can't seem to accept that fact? Mandarin is just mandarin.

AHAHAHAHAHA
What the fuck lol. So in these two identical cases of a language from the mainland having a Taiwanese dialect. It's totally ENRAGING AND OFFENSIVE of me to specify it as "Taiwanese Hokkien" but in the case of Taiwanese Mandarin? You go completely the other direction and don't even want to acknowledge the dialect? And don't seem to remotely give a shit about it?

You see why I don't give a fuck about hurting your inconsistent random sensibilities?

Oh and because you've studiously ignored this the entire time, yes, we're talking about dialects. Neither of these are languages unto themselves.

They don't call it Taiwanese Hokkien, just Taiwanese. Hokkien is what they call it in the mainland,

Oh so that's what you call the dialects? So what should I call the language? Oh who am I kidding you think they're different languages.

And jee wiz I thought a moment ago it was Min An,

It has multiple names? This is not strange and is common? Hokkien, Min Nan (Southern Min), Taiwanese Hokkien.

Except I never said "Oda will put a modern skyscraper in the manga" just he might get inspired by Taipei 101. Great job putting words in my mouth though. You were the one that went on a hissy fit over how that would be impossible. Please don't twist it.

From the literal first exchange I mentioned that "No oda will not put modern skyscrapers in" and you argued against that quote. And never said "No I don't mean modern skyscrapers". Go back and check, take your time.

Also your whole argument doesn't even make sense about Taipei 101 UNLESS it was modern skyscrapers. Based on your own comments.
You said Taipei 101 has distinct style based on traditional Chinese architecture.
So if not the modern… what you're saying is Oda would be inspired the traditional Chinese architecture style....
So then what the fuck would he be focusing on Taipei 101 for when there's just straight up traditional Chinese architecture he can go looking at?
Why bother with the middleman?? UNLESS it was the modern skyscraper aspects he was looking for?

So do you really want to deny that you were talking about skyscrapers (I don't know why I said modern , because ALL skyscrapers are modern)?
Because either you're advising strange awkward world building mistakes, OR you're not making sense.

Is a skyscraper not a tall building? lol

Are you from like the woods or some shit?? No! No they're not! Where on earth does a skyscraper refer to anything but a really tall modern type of building?
And fucking bullshit again, YOU were citing Vegapunk and examples of futuristic things. YOU were arguing for a modern thing no matter what you're now saying.

Trying to change topics because I believe most people are tired of this crap?

lol even you have no idea why you mentioned that.

Exactly, there is a island that is made of cake for fucks sake,

Oh so you're one of THOSE people.
You think it's literally just cakes and has no other explanation.
You were one of the people who thought the talking Toys were just randomly talking living Toys weren't you.
You do not understand how this manga works.

its not like anything is outside the realm of possibilities.

Yeah you were definitely one of those people.

[redon]

One Piece Ten - Adventure Log Taiwan book pictures, thanks @bar_w7. New Dressrosa's "Light and Dark" section is amazing

I want/need that book :ninja:

[DrVPunk]

wtf gambia bonty ß67.000ー http://t.co/o3yO89ZbRy

[King Cannon]

@DrVPunk:

wtf gambia bonty ß67.000ー http://t.co/o3yO89ZbRy

We already knew that.

[kouch_lee]

Wait. . .Sai and Boo have a bounty too?

Aren't they part of an official army of a kingdom/country? Isn't that why Don Chinjao's bounty is a "FORMER" bounty, no longer active? Cause they went "official"?

Kinda confused here.

[King Cannon]

@kouch_lee:

Wait. . .Sai and Boo have a bounty too?

Aren't they part of an official army of a kingdom/country? Isn't that why Don Chinjao's bounty is a "FORMER" bounty, no longer active? Cause they went "official"?

Kinda confused here.

Chinjao was on Bastille's list, so he's still wanted.

[akagami7]

@kouch_lee:

Wait. . .Sai and Boo have a bounty too?

Aren't they part of an official army of a kingdom/country? Isn't that why Don Chinjao's bounty is a "FORMER" bounty, no longer active? Cause they went "official"?

Kinda confused here.

http://www.batoto.net/read/_/190345/one-piece_ch719_by_powermanga/8
happou pirate navy

meaning the happounavy is a pirate navy serving kanokuni which most likely isn't affiliated with the world government

[kouch_lee]

@akagami7:

http://www.batoto.net/read/_/190345/one-piece_ch719_by_powermanga/8
happou pirate navy

meaning the happounavy is a pirate navy serving kanokuni which most likely isn't affiliated with the world government

But that was 30 years ago.

Look at these ones. The "Kanokuni gang member" part is there, but during the flashback it's not, just like the "pirate" part. Also, right next page, it's again stressed that Chinjao was ONCE a great pirate. As far as I know, you don't choose to "retire" from piracy, just look at Raileigh.

I think during these 30 years they became part of Kanokuni, the country, and stopped being a pirate army. I think.

[madriano]

@King:

We already knew that.

It was 67 million, not 67 thousand.

[King Cannon]

@kouch_lee:

But that was 30 years ago.

Look at these ones. The "Kanokuni gang member" part is there, but during the flashback it's not, just like the "pirate" part. Also, right next page, it's again stressed that Chinjao was ONCE a great pirate. As far as I know, you don't choose to "retire" from piracy, just look at Raileigh.

I think during these 30 years they became part of Kanokuni, the country, and stopped being a pirate army. I think.

Pretty sure "Kanokuni Gang" here refers to the Chinjao, Sai and Boo trio.

[DrVPunk]

@madriano:

It was 67 million, not 67 thousand.

yes. i hope that is mistake

–- Update From New Post Merge ---

@King:

We already knew that.

no no no . i mean is gambia 67 thousand, not 67 million.

[akagami7]

@kouch_lee:

But that was 30 years ago.

Look at these ones. The "Kanokuni gang member" part is there, but during the flashback it's not, just like the "pirate" part. Also, right next page, it's again stressed that Chinjao was ONCE a great pirate. As far as I know, you don't choose to "retire" from piracy, just look at Raileigh.

I think during these 30 years they became part of Kanokuni, the country, and stopped being a pirate army. I think.

I think the kanokuni gang thing is just a way to call the chinjao, sai and boo trio.
Chinjao used to be a great pirate, that just means he doesn't do pirates stuff anymore but he's still an outlaw for the world govern ment.
Also, he offered the happou army to luffy after the c-block fight along with sai and boo, that to me means that his grandchildren are still active pirates==>the happou navy is a pirate army. Which would point at kanokuni not being a part of the world government

[redon]

Finally I got the book "One Piece Adventure Log in Taiwan"

The book is very similar to the other 2 version (in Taiwanese of course) with some new pages. Here some of them.

!

I complete my "One Piece Ten" book collection

[dropper]

Wow that's a neat collection redon! Did you enjoy the exhibition?

[RamistaR]

Wow! I want to see a live footage of this Doflamingo!