About Weekly Shonen Jump Alpha

[firecrouch]

Specifically now that Alpha's coming out I was wondering how forum discussions of those particular versions of the chapters should be handled, if at all. The main anime episode discussions are based on the FUNimation simulcast, however it's a bit different with VIZ since they come out with the chapters two weeks later. Do you think we should simply make a subforum for Weekly Shonen Jump Alpha (with spoiler warning of course), or just let the discussions occur in the original VIZ Media thread and perhaps make it a Sticky? Another idea I had was making a subforum for VIZ Media, similar to the FUNimation one. It could consist mainly of chapter discussions, we'd move the original VIZ Media thread there and reserve it mainly for general VIZ news and updates. Do ya'll have your own ideas? Let's discuss.

[jackskellinghog]

I think that a VIZ sub forum would be brilliant, I'd love to help mod it also.

[Primo11]

I'd love if Viz got it's own sub-forum. That seems like the best choice.

[MarcelloF]

I'd also rather it be separate from the current VIZ topic. I can't read Alpha, but I still like to keep up to date with what Viz is doing and sifting through discussion on chapters I had read two weeks before would be annoying.

[Primo11]

So a sja thread and a viz thread so far.

[Kitsune Inferno]

Forgive me if I'm ignorant, but I fail to see how this would be beneficial. I doubt too many of us don't follow the accessible MangaStream releases already, and can't we do something with the chapter discussion threads to that effect? Like, say we have Chapter 650 release, we leave the thread stickied for two weeks until the Alpha release, then label the thread as Latest Alpha Release or something, then move it to the Past Chapter Discussion subforum, which isn't locked or anything I believe. Speaking of, why can't chapter discussion take place in those threads?

[RPGJay]

I don't think it's own subforum would be necessary at all. A thread like we have for the Viz releases would do fine.

[Samwize78]

I'd love a sub-forum, if you'd be so kind.

[LUFFY1fan]

While a sub forum would be nice, I mean I'd really want one, I just don't know if it'd get that much discussion. There is about 8-10 users max who usually post in the Viz Media thread, and unless we just have lurkers, it would be just a pointless as (In no offense at all, I love the podcast and listen regularly) the OPP sub forum. Maybe having a Weekly Shonen Jump Alpha Chapter Discussion thread stickied would be nice though.

[The Spaceman]

I would love to have a sub forum, though a separate thread from the Viz Media thread would also be nice too.

[Robby]

With spoilers leaking when they do, the Viz release is going to be nearly THREE weeks after the mangareader/mangastream releases.

If Viz was managing same day and Japanese shelf release, (and they say they plan to get the time down eventually) I think the forum as a whole could convert to waiting an extra 3 or 4 days for the official release… Or for the scanlation junkies, maybe leave the discussion in the spoiler threads and not start official threads until the Viz release was out. Would change it back to how it used be where spoiler threads were a 4 or 5 day topic instead of a 6 hour one...

But when its going to be a three week gap, that's just... not going to be feasible.

Especially when the Viz version needs to be paid for (whereas the anime streams for free) and many members of this site aren't going to do that. (I intend to subscribe once we see how they're doing, but...) We have the spoiler thread, then the chapter thread, then the volume thread... are people really going to discuss the chapters a second/third time in yet another thread? And what would it entail? At best it would be about translation and typeset critique, which to me doesn't warrant a section and would at best warrant a thread like the volume chapters do. But to devote a second "chapter thread" to VIZ three weeks after the fact? It would be splitting conversation threads in two, which I think would make it harder for everyone to follow discussion.

I'm all for supporting the official release and giving it its own thread, but initially at least, (for as long as Viz has a 2 week gap) probably all the discussion is going to remain on the mangareader/mangastream releases. There is no need for its own subsection.

We'll work out the specifics after it launches, how many people subscribe to it, and see what warrants what. Probably there will just be a single stickied thread to discuss the viz releases in general... but I can't foresee it getting a whole lot of traffic.

[Primo11]

I guess the main arguement against would be the gap in chapters. Maybe for now we should just wait and see how things play out. For all we know they'll have their own forums on sjalpha.com.

[The One Piece Guy]

A Viz sub forums would be best just like we have the Funimation sub forum. There we could also have some threads of the other shonen jump alpha mangas such as naruto, bleach, toriko, etc.

[Robby]

@The:

A Viz sub forums would be best just like we have the Funimation sub forum. There we could also have some threads of the other shonen jump alpha mangas such as naruto, bleach, toriko, etc.

The difference is, the Funimation episodes come out almost simultaneously with the japanese airing. They're what, an hour apart? People can just wait and see that, translated without any problem. And they're a completely different format with new material to talk about.

The viz mangas however, are going to be nearly a month behind. For all series. There's no point in making second topics for all of them to discuss stuff three weeks after its already been discussed in the threads that currently exist.

If Viz can get their production time down to same day release, that'll be different and there might be some sweeping changes then.

[Md-Martin]

I say make a subforum for Alpha readers. One of my main concerns with Alpha was that I can't participate in AP manga forums anymore, and other forums such as Raftel don't have as many members as AP to paricipate in good discussions.

If we could make a subforum for Alpha readers that'd be great!

[Hayama]

Keep the current Viz thread as a general Viz discussion thread & have a second thread just for WSJ Alpha discussion. Maybe sticky both threads?

[Riddler]

Cant you just put a spoiler warning in the normal chapter threads until the chapter has also come out in SJA? So anybody who wants to wait till the official release is warned to stay out of that thread and later on, when everybody can read the chapter, you remove the spoiler warning? This way, discussion (and the fanbase) wont be divided. Also, usually the chapter threads stop having any interesting content after about two days. This way, the threads would be revived after a few days or weeks, with new interesting thoughts about the chapter.

[firecrouch]

I think a Sticky, at least for now, would be better than a Sub-Forum.

[Envy]

I'm probably going to have to avoid this forum in entirety since chapter titles can give out giant spoilers (remember "The Death of Portgas D. Ace"? That was before I was a manga reader, and I saw it). Idealistically, the title of the chapters should be left out of the topic titles until they are officially released. If not, it's practically impossible to avoid seeing them if I want to keep on visiting this forum, unless I just minimize the One Piece section in entirety, which is silly because I joined here to discuss One Piece.

[Robby]

Given that chapter titles are the VERY FIRST THING seen in the chapter, and the first thing Oda wants you to know about it… they aren't really spoilers when they're in the subject line. Yes, even in the rare cases where its a big reveal like "The Death of Ace"... which was also the volume title... and the anime episode title. And oviously coming after the previous chapter ended the way it did. Even so, that one case is pretty much the exception more than the rule, the titles don't usually give that much away.

If you're only following the anime, well, you're going to be a year behind no matter what and there's just no realistic way to keep avatars, sigs, merchandising and whatever else under wraps for that long. It'd be like trying to keep the time skip contained for a year. With the biggest stuff, it just ain't happening. It's hard enough to keep spoilers quarantined for 8 hours-a day before the chapters come out.

Sorry, but its predominantly a manga board. Its going to follow the manga.

[Envy]

Actually, after I got spoiled of the death of Ace from that that topic title I got caught up to the manga.

So I am a manga reader. I have no concern with the board being manga-centric. The issue now is that I am not going to read beyond what is in Shonen Jump Alpha. I have always felt bad about watching fansubs or reading scanlations. So when an legal alternative comes around I go to it and completely stop watching/reading it otherwise.

Oda may mean for me to read the title of the chapter first, but he doesn't intend for me to read the title three chapters ahead of where I am.

I know that typically the topic titles are vague and their meaning is not apparent until you read the chapter, but I just don't want to ever have to see that again. Three chapters ahead or an entire year ahead, it's still a spoiler.

[Riddler]

Seriously, would it really be a big problem to just name the chapter threads "Chapter 654" for example, and then have the title of the chapter in fat, bold letters in the first post? Everybody will read the chapter title anyway when they read the chapter (duh), so I don`t see a big need to post it in the thread title if its a problem for some people.

[Robby]

Because then it becomes difficult to tell one discussion from another, or find a specific thread you remember a topic being in… especially after they're archived.

I suppose we could always start giving the thread titles joke names, but then I'd be making you all groan on a weekly basis. And that's best as a Naruto/Bleach thing.

[LUFFY1fan]

Well, maybe it'd be nice if you at least made it a way so new chapters could not be discussed besides in the respected thread until 2 weeks and then it's every man for himself.

[Envy]

@LUFFY#1:

Well, maybe it'd be nice if you at least made it a way so new chapters could not be discussed besides in the respected thread until 2 weeks and then it's every man for himself.

I don't know if that's the best course of action.

I think a subforum, or at the very least, a separate topic for discussion of WSJ Alpha One Piece chapters is the best idea. If it were a subforum, it would be for VIZ's translations in general, of course.

However, constraining all discussion of a chapter and its contents for nearly three weeks doesn't seem like something that would go too well over here.

[Robby]

Its a topic being discussed among the staff. As you can tell, there's pros and cons to pretty much any course of action, and potential confusion, and a lot of overlap from creating more threads and/or sections. And there's history and reasons behind the way things are done currently.

Really, the biggest problem is Viz taking that extra two weeks. If it was 3 or 4 days after the spoiler releases, same day as Japan releases the physical mag, it'd be an incredibly easy transition to make and enforce. We'd just make the spoiler thread last longer (since it currently only lasts for about 8 hours with modern Mangastream releases) and make the official thread on Sunday/Monday when Viz released the chapter, and that would be pretty much how it worked just a couple years ago.

But 3 weeks is just… unwieldy and problematic.

For now, it'll probably just be a single thread created to discuss the Viz releases... and if they improve and speed up things can change.

[firecrouch]

And good thing there's a already a VIZ thread, easiest thing to do is just sticky it.

[dirt monkey AL]

Seeing as how Stephen no longer has his translations posted in that Stephen's Corner sub-forum … couldn't that theoretically be converted into a VIZ sub-forum?

He's working for VIZ now, and he still has a thread open in there for questions to him. The VIZ Media thread could be moved there, or broken up into manga volumes, Alpha, anime etc. At this point, that sub-forum is technically a VIZ sub-forum already.

[Gizmo]

@dirt:

Seeing as how Stephen no longer has his translations posted in that Stephen's Corner sub-forum … couldn't that theoretically be converted into a VIZ sub-forum?

He's working for VIZ now, and he still has a thread open in there for questions to him. The VIZ Media thread could be moved there, or broken up into manga volumes, Alpha, anime etc. At this point, that sub-forum is technically a VIZ sub-forum already.

This makes a lot of sense. He was willing to post his trans of all the volumes there before. Even if it doesn't turn into an entire sub forum, having a thread or multiple threads for the SJA chapters to talk about his trans sounds like a good idea.

And though not relevant, it's also nice that the scans are cleaned really well along with having Stephen's trans.

[firecrouch]

dirt monkey al's idea of integrating the VIZ/Aplha discussion somehow with the Stephen thread seems reasonable. Doesn't sound like a bad idea; not much is going on there these days anyway what Stephen doing more of his thing on the OPP. Until there's some kind of final decision with the matter, would it be alright if I post articles on the front page each week when a new issue of Aplha comes out? It wouldn't be a replacement for the the usual manga release articles we've had of course, just an addition to what's posted on the front page.

[Urouge]

Alpha has taken over stephen's section, partially because his priorities switched to translating for it. We encourage everyone who's able to support Alpha, of course. Anything that SJA hasn't gotten to will be treated as a spoiler in that section. Have fun.

[firecrouch]

Wow nice, wasn't expecting that. So what I'm not quite clear on the difference between the General Alpha discussion and the Super one.

[Urouge]

There's a thread for talking about the new OP chapter, there's a thread for more general OP stuff, and there's a thread for the Alpha service itself.

[brennen.exe]

Also, the Super one was made by me while the General one was made by Darkstorm.

[Gokuyuske]

Thought I'd post this bit of news outside the TOC thread:
http://www.animenewsnetwork.com/news/2012-10-10/viz-media/shonen-jump-alpha-to-move-to-simultaneous-model-very-soon

If this happens I'll seriously consider getting the service.

[Kingdomkey]

Now that Viz have announced simultaneous releases for SJ Alpha I think we should take up the idea Robby proposed earlier in the thread of having the spoilers thread open for 4-5 days, and then close it and open the official chapter thread when the Alpha version is out.

[Urouge]

We'll think about it, but this is still an international forum rather than a US one. A large portion of the community isn't allowed access to Alpha.

[No Maam]

@Urouge:

We'll think about it, but this is still an international forum rather than a US one. A large portion of the community isn't allowed access to Alpha.

Such as yours truly.

[Robby]

@Kingdomkey:

Now that Viz have announced simultaneous releases for SJ Alpha I think we should take up the idea Robby proposed earlier in the thread of having the spoilers thread open for 4-5 days, and then close it and open the official chapter thread when the Alpha version is out.

If and when Alpha manages to start getting a same-day release, we'll see how the flow of the forum in general moves to accommodate it. I'm all for supporting the official release and actual day-of release in Japan, and I'd like to do that… but as already noted, international forum, so not everyone can get Alpha, and spoilers/scanlations will probably still hit a few days earlier than that. Its hard to judge how difficult it will be keeping spoilers contained for that long or what it might do to the conversation.

We'll probably try it experimentally for a week or two, and see how it goes and what the split is and generally how difficult it is when the time comes.

I personally will probably switch over to Alpha exclusively, just for the higher quality and professional translations and for supporting the creator, waiting an extra day or two isn't a biggie for me... just tricky when everyone else is talking about it 4 days earlier.

[No Maam]

@RobbyBevard:

If and when Alpha manages to start getting a same-day release, we'll see how the flow of the forum in general moves to accommodate it. I'm all for supporting the official release and actual day-of release in Japan, and I'd like to do that… but as already noted, international forum, so not everyone can get Alpha, and spoilers/scanlations will probably still hit a few days earlier than that. Its hard to judge how difficult it will be keeping spoilers contained for that long or what it might do to the conversation.

We'll probably try it experimentally for a week or two, and see how it goes and what the split is and generally how difficult it is when the time comes.

I personally will probably switch over to Alpha exclusively, just for the higher quality and professional translations and for supporting the creator, waiting an extra day or two isn't a biggie for me... just tricky when everyone else is talking about it 4 days earlier.

So wait, what does that mean exactly ? That there's gonna be a ban on linking/talking about the chapter for nearly a week after the scan's out because somewhere someone releases a version I can't view ?

[Gizmo]

@No:

So wait, what does that mean exactly ? That there's gonna be a ban on linking/talking about the chapter for nearly a week after the scan's out because somewhere someone releases a version I can't view ?

Presumably, people will be able to talk about the chapter in the spoiler forum and spoiler forum only and stuff like spoilers in the form of avatars/signatures before SJA's release won't be allowed until the official release.

I have a feeling only the minority will actually strickly follow SJA on the forum, given it's an international forum and chapters are roughly released five days before the official release. Plus,despite horrid trans in mangastream/mangapanda, CCC and Aohige has been around to point out flaws in translation, with CCC even helping translate for mangarule, whose quality is pretty high and is still usually out before the official release date.

Still, I'm hoping that Americans would be willing to follow SJA given it's Stephen translating and the scan quality is great. This is probably the push I need to renew my subscription next year, even if I do read the chapter when a scan comes out online.

[No Maam]

Honestly while I do think it'd be a good idea not to advertise the chapter release on the front page till after the official publication date, beyond that I think it's just gonna get in the way, seeing I know at least five or six other regulars who also will be uncapable of viewing this.

[Kingdomkey]

@No:

So wait, what does that mean exactly ? That there's gonna be a ban on linking/talking about the chapter for nearly a week after the scan's out because somewhere someone releases a version I can't view ?

Yeah complications such as Alpha being US only make it difficult for Manga discussion to be solely based on the official releases in the foreseeable future.

Note that I myself can't access Alpha

[Gizmo]

@No:

Honestly while I do think it'd be a good idea not to advertise the chapter release on the front page till after the official publication date, beyond that I think it's just gonna get in the way, seeing I know at least five or six other regulars who also will be uncapable of viewing this.

Talking about the chapter in the spoiler forum doesn't seem much different than having the official chapter thread out. The biggest issue I could think of is presumably being unable to talk about 'spoilers' in manga threads like next crew members or haki/devil fruits/(four emperors thread) etc. until the official release which would make the spoiler thread more cluttered.

I doubt the manga thread could go the same route as the anime thread with just keeping all the fansubs in a separate forum given the issues already stated, but I guess it just depends on how the forums react when it happens.

[Robby]

@No:

So wait, what does that mean exactly ? That there's gonna be a ban on linking/talking about the chapter for nearly a week after the scan's out because somewhere someone releases a version I can't view ?

In theory talk would stay in the spoiler section till the official release and we'd all fall in line and just support the official release.

In practice, I just don't see it working well with a 4-5 day gap and things will probably proceed as they always have since the scans are still going to be there.

It was flat out insane to try and enforce that with a three week gap, but it's probably worth TRYING for at least a week or two just to see how it goes… but if all the conversation is covered and dries up in that time, there's not much point. Being an international forum makes me doubtful about it working at all, so... its not going to be pressed as an issue likely.

[Fire-Fist]

are there any stats about what percentage of forum's population is from US?

[Urouge]

Not really, but I'd guess it's around half.

And for the record, we are nowhere close to a decision to change anything yet.

[hreinnbeno]

As an international or non US/canada forum member I cant really see the problem waiting for four days to accommodate the shonen jump alpha. It is only four days, and most of the talk happens in the chapter thread anyway for these four days, and that wouldnt change, it would just happen in the spoiler thread. The legal day has as well always been the Monday anyway so I think the right way is to support the alpha even though not it isnt accessible can get it. It is not like they do get the scan anyway, what is it they would lose, cant discuss it in the really important next nakamate thread, which can easily be discussed in the spoiler thread for these four days anyway. So yeah I would vote to wait for four days. I think we should try to please and accommodate legal publishing, if they are this good.
Simultaneous release with really good quality (translation and the picture quality).
The real thing is though four or five days are not that many days.

Yeah and those that would cry not being able to put the newest thing in your profile or as a signature, patience is the greatest virtue a person can have.

[Robby]

It's easy to get two or three people to agree with that.

Its harder to get the entirety of the board, hundreds of members, to do so.

[Kitsune Inferno]

The way I see it, it's not just about supporting Alpha, it's also about supporting the official Japanese release as well. Granted, that's also not very important seeing how few of us actually read OP in Japanese anyhow. But regardless, I do think it's something we should experiment with. The only issues I could see is that it would wind up fragmenting discussion quite a bit. And the Alpha-based model will only apply to very few members anyhow. Aren't US users in the minority? I thought we only constituted, like 30-40% of the forum. Then consider that maybe only 15-20% of said US members will support Alpha in the first place.

In any case, I wouldn't mind experimenting with it, but I see it being a bit problematic for the vast majority. Even if said vast majority's complaints amount to whining that they can't discuss the manga they most likely consumed for free and without any support to the author (not to mention illegally).~