So are you guys still doing white beard? I'm new here what's the deal?
Love and Loathe: Daily One Piece Character Analysis
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So are you guys still doing white beard? I'm new here what's the deal?
Yes, Whitebeard, please go on.
Rules are explained in the first post. -
So are you guys still doing white beard? I'm new here what's the deal?
Yeah, we're still doing him. We're trying out a 48-hour evaluation period. So what do you think of him?
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Well here's Whitebeard as I see him:
Love: extremely loyal, forgiving and generous. The kind of man you only want as a friend. Wouldn't want to cross him that's for sure. If you're his buddy he treats you like gold for life. If you're his enemy you're screwed. Strong, ideology driven character.
Loathe: I think he follows his ideology too stubbornly. Is it right to sacrifice thousands of lives to save one? I don't know, but you can't tell me that each and every single pirate that went to war at marineford was as willing to sacrifice their lives for Ace as Whitebeard and his commanders. That's just not realistic. The truth is I can't help but like this character, but his depiction in OP is somewhat one sided and story bookish. Someone who sends thousands to their death to defend a personal ideology isn't my idea of a hero.
3/5
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I don't care about this debate, but a few pages back someone said there are no regular wanderers or explorers in Won Peace. I wanted to point out that Cricket, Noland's descendant, is a regular explorer and not a pirate.
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@Medical:
I don't care about this debate, but a few pages back someone said there are no regular wanderers or explorers in Won Peace. I wanted to point out that Cricket, Noland's descendant, is a regular explorer and not a pirate.
No, he is a pirate.
No, there actually are explores and adventurers in One Piece world, they just don't play important part in the plot. -
Montblanc is an interesting case. Didn't his ape friends have their own Jolly Rogers? This makes me think that they're all pirates.
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No, he is a pirate.
No, there actually are explores and adventurers in One Piece world, they just don't play important part in the plot.What I was trying to say was that I believe there are no explorers who aren't backed by the government.
–- Update From New Post Merge ---
Montblanc is an interesting case. Didn't his ape friends have their own Jolly Rogers? This makes me think that they're all pirates.
The ape friends even had bounties. Also, Cricket was a pirate before he came to Jaya.
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What I was trying to say was that I believe there are no explorers who aren't backed by the government.
I think you are right in this case, not because it is impossible or forbidden, but more likely because it costs a lot of money to do it.
The same reason that real world explorers had to be backed by entire governments in order to cross the Atlantic.
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Ohh you guys had a fight in here, can somebody give me a really small summary. one liner pls
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Whitebeard's Arlong Park Evaluation
What you loved:
- The Treasure of a Family – The easy number one choice, you guys love that Whitebeard was all about his family. He exemplifies what it means to be a father perhaps better than anyone in One Piece and his love for his children and his want for their happiness seems endless. What a guy. Whitebeard's ferocious attack on Admiral Akainu directly following Ace's death was not just a battle between two rival forces, it was a father grieving the loss of his son with all the destructive power he could still muster.
- A Standing Death – In a series filled with epic moments, Whitebead's death scene can go toe to toe with any of them. His sacrifice was beautiful, and the unveil of his back, free from a cowards wound, was as poignant a moment as any. One Piece is really about exaggeration and grand gestures and in that vein few moments compare to Newgate's final stand.
- Strong Old Bastard – Whitebeard is really a monster from the previous generation. Within him we see both a man weathered and fragile from time and yet he is still an incredible warrior and a man who, even in his compromised state, is still possibly the worlds strongest. Whitebeard had a lot of hype to live up to coming into Marineford and, most would agree, that he lived up to it.
Favorite comment goes to The Daz:
“_Love:Remember how I dismissed Rayleigh as a boring character, because he was just the "old man, who is cool and really strong"stereotype and nothing else? How having limited panel time is no excuse for being boring?__I present thee: Whitebeard._Whitebeard was the strongest man in the whole world, and he had tonnes of strength feats- but thats not why we remember him. Thats not why we love him. The reason those moments had the impact they had was thatt hey were fueled by Whitebeards burning, fatherly compassion.Throwing an Admiral around is neat and all, but when you do in silent fury at your sons death, it becomes something special. A quake-punch is only as cool as the raw emotion powering it.Whitebeard only had one real arc to show off, and he used his time extremely well.“
–-------------What you loathed:
- The Rogue Son – the only loathe that was truly consistent was the way in which Newgate handled Teach. Many feel that, had Whitebeard simply gotten his hands dirty, he could have prevented Ace's capture and thus the War wouldn't have happened (sparing countless lives). Whitebeard was accused of being a poor planer by some, I would argue that hindsight is 20/20 and that Whitebeard was dealing with some internal struggles. Still, at the end of the day, Teach has been unleashed on the New World and, conceivably, Whitebeard could have prevented that.
- Too Trusting – This one overlaps a bit, except the example of Squardo stabbing him was used more than examples including Blackbeard.
- The One Piece Exists! - Now, this wasn't really a pattern so I am going against the idea of L&L to even really put it here. Still, Darth brought up that Whitebeard commenting on the One Piece was a selfish act that would only cause more chaos throughout the world and he defended his point endlessly (some even found it valid, which is enough for me to put it here.)
Favorite comment goes to Darth:
“The"One Piece is real" speach. I hate it. And I know it'sharping on man's romance, I really do, but it comes off, to me at least, simply as mean spirited. It actually worsens the situation ofhis people, worsens the situation of Islands he protected, worsens the situation of Fishmen island and Jimbei signitificantly, cause countless deaths across the globe… when Blackbeard acknoledges that you've done well, you should probaly rethink your actions.__“
Finally,the poll! With 33 votes, Whitebeard's average score is…4.47!
Thanks to all that responded! I will post my next pick later on today. Here's the HINT: Our next character wants us to bring it back!
Until then.
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I think you are right in this case, not because it is impossible or forbidden, but more likely because it costs a lot of money to do it.
The same reason that real world explorers had to be backed by entire governments in order to cross the Atlantic.
Didn't you agree with me that pirates and rogues are the same thing in OP?
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Didn't you agree with me that pirates and rogues are the same thing in OP?
I'm agreeing with you here, too!
Hmm, I see. Well Montblanc's a guy who fits in as a rogue. He traveled on his own will to Jaya in order to find the golden city. At this time, Jaya is a common stop for pirates, so it's not like it takes a government's backing just to find it.
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Ohh you guys had a fight in here, can somebody give me a really small summary. one liner pls
Darth being in very typical way Darth, people get upset about that, while RazgrizX explores the meaning of piracy.
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I'm agreeing with you here, too!
Hmm, I see. Well Montblanc's a guy who fits in as a rogue. He traveled on his own will to Jaya in order to find the golden city. At this time, Jaya is a common stop for pirates, so it's not like it takes a government's backing just to find it.
But…money? What's stopping someone from saving money through legal means and then going on an adventure on his own?
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But…money? What's stopping someone from saving money through legal means and then going on an adventure on his own?
You have no sense of scale. Why it's not impossible, it's hard for individuals, maybe some of nobility or very successful business people could do that.
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Darth being in very typical way Darth, people get upset about that, while RazgrizX explores the meaning of piracy.
Ahh Darth is a great guy but he goes overboard some times, but Razgrizx explored the meaning of piracy, that's interesting and he must be feeling like Oda felt while he did his research 15+ years ago right now XD
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Love & Loathe #18 Let's get our Burn Bazooka on! It's time to evaluate: Wiper ("The Berserker")
For Shandora!...Here's the deal: We are looking to hyper-critique a character to try and pinpoint what makes them great and what makes them terrible. After enough people respond, I will organize what are the best and worst traits of the character, and compile an evaluation post later. Also,don't worry if you have the same answers as others,the point is to figure out a common denominator for the character.
So the two questions for you are:
What one thing do you consistently love about Wiper?
What one thing do you consistently loathe about Wiper?And give Wiper a rating of between 1 and 5, with 5 being the highest(.5's are acceptable - ex. 1.5 or 4.5). I will tally these.
**This will be a 48 hour evaluation.Enjoy.
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This post is deleted!
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Love: His true goals. Trying to amend the broken friendship of his ancestor was a very interesting goal.
Loathe: He's pretty boring. Before the Noland flashback I didn't care at all about the Shandians and thought they were underdeveloped. Wiper is the only exception but that came only in the very end of a really long arc. Before that I didn't really care for him.
2.5/5
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If we weren't allowed to comment on other posters opinions then this thread would just turn into a big hippie lovefest where everyone says how much they love this character and that character, making silly points with no one allowed try and talk sense to them.
We need the debate to keep this thread (which for the record, is a great concept) alive.
THANK YOU. I'm so sick of people sucking on the balls of characters. Don't get me wrong, there are characters that are really good, but that doesn't mean they don't have bad points and I like that the time has been extended to 48 hours because it allows people (who actually want to discuss these characters and not go down on their knees for some of these characters) to think about the character and analyze what and how did that certain character contribute to the story and look at good points and bad points. I'm sick of seeing 9 million comments of "He's a badass. There's nothing wrong with him." No, there is no character in the history of literature (including manga, comics, and even in the Bible) that is 100% perfect.
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Love: He was technically able to kill Enel. Granted, it wasn't permanent, but it was still one hell of an accomplishment considering how overpowered the Goro Goro no Mi is. His determination has to be praised.
Loathe: He's not called "The Berserker" for nothing. He was too violent and irrational during Skypiea, and that made him too unlikeable at times. The way he treated Gan Fall (and also Aisa) was very unfair and stupid, not to mention the demand for 100 innocent Skypieans' heads.
2.5/5
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Love: Well, he was dedicated to a dream and he saw it through. It's also nice to see he's mellowed into a protector over avenger in his recent appearances.
Loathe: Where to start? What can be described as dedicated can also be described as stubborn, rage-driven, monomaniacal & blinkered. He was unwilling to listen to anyone, to the point of terrifying his own people. Kami Enil was a great evil but if it wasn't for the Straw Hats Wyper was well on his way to becoming one himself.
Crappy tatts, too.1/5.
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this is probably a completely bias opinion but:
Love: EVERY SINGLE THING (except what im gonna put as my loathe). The fight he took up for his people, the fight he took up for his ancestors, the fight he took up for his pride. His tribe's homeland was taken from them for 400 years and they the shandians, with wiper being one of the current defenders and the chief of the fight took everything upon his back to gain his homeland back. He used the reject dial 3 times, which was said would detach a person's arm if used only once. this guy right here was the man, one of my favorite characters in the whole series.
loathe: dudes stubborn as shit (its a positive as it drove him to what he became but a negative at the same time as he was hardly open to change which things MAY have been easier if he wasn't so stubborn.
5/5
sn: damnit, i missed whitebeard by a few hours, oh well, i'll save his for the re-up.
snn: and for the people asking to go back to 24hrs, the reason why 48 would be better it extends the life of the thread. there's only a certain amount of characters in the series and some of them aren't even worth an analysis ….(looking at Gamon)
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I don't remember Cricket being a pirate..I'll have to read that arc again.
Anyway, Wiper
Love: Only things I liked about him are that he stopped being such a stubborn asshole at the end of Skypiea and his thoughts about talking with the Shandian chief about the history of their country led to the Noland-Calgara flashback.
Loathe: He was a stubborn asshole. Some of the people on his side were even terrified of him, most notably Aisa, who was a little kid, and he couldn't care less. He hated Skypieans for something their ancestors did 400 years ago, which they shouldn't be blamed for because everyone involved in taking their land has been dead since before his great-grandparents' great-grandparents were born (and even if it were that time, not ALL Skypieans should be hated because people have their own individual thoughts and feelings and not all of them would agree with stealing their territory). The fact that he got pissed off at Gan Fall saying he likes pumpkin juice. He kind of reminds me of the extremist social justice people who think simply liking something about another culture is cultural appropriation. (not that pumpkin juice was unique to the Shandian culture in the first place, but…)
It's ironic that he values Noland's contributions to Jaya and friendship with Calgara, while he was for a while exactly like the Shandians before Noland met them: stubborn, set in their ways, and easily offended.
3/5 for his redemption.
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Love: He was a great warrior. He did everything and anything for the sake of his people and did it the most badass way possible. It was also great to see him to mellow out towards non-shandians during Skypiea.
Loathe: Tough seriously, he was willing to kill any non-shandian he met. God knows how many blue sea's tourists died in his hands!
Overall: 3.5/5
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Love: Being able to use a Reject Dial multiple times is quite a feat.
Loathe: He is not a very interesting character overall aside his fighting style and ancestors.
3/5 -
@Light:
Loathe: Tough seriously, he was willing to kill any non-shandian he met. God knows how many blue sea's tourists died in his hands!
I kind of wonder..when characters go through changes and become a better or kinder person, do they feel remorse for all the people they hurt/imprisoned/killed? I don't think we've seen anyone feel guilt over that. They just become a good guy and live a better life.
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Love : His fighting style, and use of kairoseki weapons. Obviously the reject dial was awesome too. He had great determination and persistence in his mission against Enel.
Loathe : He was a complete asshole tbh. Stubborn, surly, and at times downright stupid. He didn't really have much to him after the initial few layers were peeled back.
Rating : 2.5/5
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Love: I liked him early in the Skypiea game; when he was a complete wildcard. Also, his fine timeskip appearance.
Loathe: His name is Wiper, wtf.
2/5
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Love: His determination, I suppose. Dude was a dedicated fighter during Skypiea, fought for the sake of his ancestors, and stopped Enel's heart with a reject dial. That's pretty damn hardcore.
Loathe: What everyone else said. He was too abrasive at times.
3.5/5
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Wiper
Love: He was a solid guy. Strong man, with a few tricks up his sleeve. He was actually one of the strongest guys in Skypiea arc and he was part of the great scene where he, Ganfall, Zoro and Robin took a stand against Enel.Loathe: Not very likeable indeed as he is driven by his hatred rather than the necessity for his people. Got pissed off with the girl collecting varse for Aisa(?) and I thought that was kind of unreasonable. His ultimate goal was Enel's life and yet he was kind of a dick to everyone else.
But I still liked his looks and he is cool.
3/5 -
Love: His design. Really, it is the kind of badass that works with me.
Loathe: He. Is. So. Damn. Annoying! Seriously, every time I read Skypiea I keep thinking "someone kill this guy already". On my first run, I was actually happy when Enel burned Laki in front of him just because I wanted to see him suffer. I don't hate him anymore, but I am still far from liking this guy and the main reason for it is his complete lack of control. He sounds like a spoiled brat, even though he is actually trying to honor someone else's wish - something normaly readers empathize with - he still manages to look as a stupid asshole.2.5/5 (even though I dislike him, I still think being annoying is better than being boring. At least it proves the character stands out in his own way)
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Love: His badasness. Probably the most proud and cool looking character of all times (rivaling only probably Zoro), who knows how to get things done. When he "killed" Enel, a shiver went down my spine on how terrifying this guy can be. Of course I didn't even think of Enel going down so easily, but it still felt as the best try amongst all of the "contestants" of Enel's game. His resolve to save his hometown - that is what made me think of him so highly. His will to live and deliver the message to Cricket, that was the probably the life source of his coolness.
His fighting style. It really felt good to see a fighting style, completely different from any other styles we've seen in the story (swordsmanship, fists etc.) up to that moment in time. His Burn Bazooka was monstrously strong (yet I'm disappointed in it not burning through the snake's belly) and Axe Dials were also great. Using Reject 3 times and actually surviving is a feat, only one with a strong desire to protect something he loves, can hope to pull out.
Loath: His violent ways probably. He was way too strict with his fellow villagers and Aisa as well. What good is it, if you take your village back, and people still being sceptical of you because of your personality? No fun at all. The way he talked to Gan Fall was way too obscene. He made assumptions before thinking, that's what driven him to such a state. He was disgusting to even listen to, when he first appeared, and I hoped Luffy kicked his ass properly.
His stubbornness is also one of factors.In the end he still relied on Luffy only, and that was totally against his principles. It's like he completely rejected his past feelings on no basis, just because of him not being able to do anything.
I also disliked his "political" views on "Shandia belongs to the Shandians" stuff. It doesn't belong to anybody to shout out loud, and no need to kill everybody for some stupid assumptions (I'm taking about him wanting to take out Luffy)
So, 3/5 from me. His badasness probably makes 2 out of 3, and the other one is for his will. -
Love
He was a strong character who was neither an ally nor an enemy - having such a wildcard that not only would mess with both sides, but had the power to inflict severe damage as well, was a very entertaining situation. Wiper felt dangerous, and that is a good trait for a wildcard.
Furthermore, him nearly killing Enel was one of my favorite moments. Up until then Enel had pretty much played invicible, but Wiper showed that he is a mortal after all - and he did that without rubber immunity. He was also a great example of yet another non-df user (we need more of those) and showed some creative ways to fight.
Him finally realizing the Strawhats and Skypieans were good people and opening up to them was nice as well.Loathe
As many others have mentioned, he was way too stubborn for his own good. I can understand his hatred towards outsiders a little, and the contrast and parallels it provided to the Norland/Calgara flashback was interesting, but the fact that it also affected his own comrades was too much. He was also boring, to be honest. He doesn't have anything that stands out, except hating everybody he doesn't agree with. I guess you could say he wasn't a very likable character - perhaps that was Oda's intention.So he'll get 3/5 from me. He had a clear role, and his wildcard status was fun, but the character itself wasn't very interesting.
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Love: Wyper's loyalty to his tribe.
Loathe: He simply denies what reject dials are, having survived three blasts in a day.
Overall: 2.5/5 I don't dislike him, but he's nothing special.
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Love: I believe he was the first arc side character who was competent and got stuff down without relying on the Straw Hats to do it for him.
Loathe: I remember someone here once describing him as having all the personality of an angry potato and that's certainly true. His barely-restrained and misplaced anger were one of the defining aspects of his character, but that didn't do much to make him a likeable one. Him using the Reject Dial a third time also strained my suspension of disbelief given that it seemed to outright kill two of its targets earlier.
Score: 2.5/5
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Wiper, hm. I'll give it my best shot!
Love: Nice to see a character with moral ambiguity. I mean, it's not like One Piece is super full of black and white characters, but most of the time they can be pretty clearly seen as "good guys" or "bad guys." Wiper acted both as an antagonist and a protagonist within the story line. Also, one of the things I enjoy about the Skypiea arc is that it feels as though it could be incredibly interesting without the Strawhats being a part of it - I can see Wiper, with the journey he went through as a character, as someone central to a story. Besides, while he wasn't always the most sympathetic, he was very understandable, especially with the rich backstory Oda built up for this arc.
Loathe: This is difficult for me. There's nothing misaimed about Wiper's character - I believe he was well written and played the part Oda meant him to in the narrative. However, there were definite traits of his, such as stubbornness and violence, that I didn't enjoy. I don't know if that should take away from how I rate him, as it was not misfiring of a character and rather painted a more realistic and flawed one. I'm going to say although there were things about him I didn't like, they made him a better character none-the-less.
(So really the only thing I loathed about him is his name. Wiper, really? I think Oda was going for Viper…)
Overall score: 4/5.
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That's actually quite an interesting approach. However my problem with it is how easily the story forgives him! Nobody calls him out of his earlier behavior after he redeems himself, and like MO said he doesn't even express any regret over it.
PS. And Wiper is fucking awesome name!
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Love: I believe he was the first arc side character who was competent and got stuff down without relying on the Straw Hats to do it for him.
Pell was there first! And to some degree, Dalton.
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Love&Hate: Despite being the empty "cool guy" kind of character for most of the arc, his leitmotiv completed him. As many of you said, he's stupidly stubborn and violent, but Oda did well to make us see that he was so, and that it was not OK (except for the lack of regret xD). He is a brilliant exemplification of what happens when a society/nation focuses only on hating an enemy, losing sight of what really is important and just keep fighting. He's violence towards Enel is just fine (the guy is an asshole for sure), but he had previously refused peace with Gan Fall - which was as obsessive and hollow decision as Hody's, absurdly hating for the sake of hating, as the terms of truce included sharing the land and that was enough to gain access to the bell.
He was a bully, yes, but I enjoyed it as much as I did with Calgara. They are parallel characters that both brilliantly show how the culture of a society is modelled. While Calgara and the flashback Shandians made their stupid actions (like being violent towards themselves) because of a lack of knowledge (logos) and thus depending "magical" narrations (mithos), Wiper and most of "modern" Shandians made their own stupid actions because they were raised in a constant-war environment that dehumanized the "enemy" that were the Skypians. You could call it cultural adaptation in order to survive or whatever, but the point is to see they are acting needlessly in a stupid way.
I think that this would be satisfying enough for a side character, but there's even more - his (b)romance. Even if he did lose sight of his purpose, it still played a very important role - the conclusion - of what I think to be the most romantic moment of One Piece (and the best flashback). A bromance so strong it perdured through 400 years in their stubborn descendants. So, even though he is a violent and dangerous man, he does it all for his romantic vision!!
Altogether, I think all this makes Wiper one of the most "gray" characters and puts him far above the standard shonen cool guy. Really easy to both love and hate him, which, for me, makes for an easy 5/5.
PD: Yes, he's a badass and I might be influenced about that.
PD2: I actually like the name Wiper, specially how they pronounce it in Japanese, but surely is because English is not my mother language and I never thought about the meaning of the name.Edit: @JustRegularGal you win this time! Hahaha no seriously, nice to agree with you.
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Edit: @JustRegularGal you win this time! Hahaha no seriously, nice to agree with you.
Well, shucks! Thank you! I think your analysis is a little more intellectual and articulate than mine though.
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This post is deleted!
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I wish I could evaluate Wiper properly but I don't remember much about the character besides him temporarily killing Enel. Enel restarted his own heart. Enel is awesome…
When are we going to evaluate Enel?
Meh, I'll go off of what I remember.
Wiper Evaluation
Love: His endurance, strength, and tenacity are amazing but pale in comparison to his love for his tribe, heritage, and his people. A lot of people are judging him for his ruthlessnss but put yourself in his shoes for a second. The leader of a people displaced and forcibly removed from their homeland for hundreds of years, constantly fighting. Constantly striving to survive in a land that is not yours and where you were never meant to be. That is the situation you are dealt with every day and as the leader it is all on your shoulders. That'd make anyone into a callous man.
Loathe: Great responsibility is no great excuse for being willing to take innocent lives.
3/5
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the guy's homeland was STOLEN, their promise DIMINISHED, and their pride BROKEN and you guys think he should have been "nice and understanding" to the skypieans? his race was persecuted because of the shandians….
ok, ganfal wasn't a bad guy but lets really look at what happened. he wanted to share the land. How would you feel if someone came into your home, took something you cherished and said yall now have to share it? but before that, they didnt want to share it, they wanted to keep it for themselves. how do you really expect the person to react?
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Well, in the first place, the people who took their land are all long dead. Gan Fall is not the imperialist ruler of 400 years ago, and the Skypieans respect Gan Fall as a leader because of his kindness, so it can be assumed most of the Skypieans today don't have the same mindset as those from that era, just like it can be assumed the Shandians of today don't sacrifice people to giant snakes anymore because of their admiration towards Noland. Also, over the centuries, the Skypieans have come to rely on the land too. Therefore, it's best if everyone is allowed to live on the land and everyone can benefit from it and maybe learn to get along. If just one side has the land, there'll just be an eternal grudge.
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but you haven't answered the question…
if someone came into your home, took your treasured item and kept it for themselves, then later decides that after its become a staple for them to allow it to be shared? What right do they have? it was never theirs to decide.
also,
so it can be assumed most of the Skypieans today don't have the same mindset as those from that era,
nah, history proves this to be false. Slavery has been abolished and there are still big problems between races because of it. In america, in europe, even in S. africa.
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but you haven't answered the question…
if someone came into your home, took your treasured item and kept it for themselves, then later decides that after its become a staple for them to allow it to be shared? What right do they have? it was never theirs to decide.
also,
nah, history proves this to be false. Slavery has been abolished and there are still big problems between races because of it. In america, in europe, even in S. africa.
As a Palestinian I can't deny that it pisses me off. But honestly it might be the best way to solve a 400 year old conflict. Just as Shandia and Skypiean, Israeli and Palestinian share the same blood and origin(that is what I understood from Ener cover story). Living together as they did in the past is a good way to end such a stupid conflict.
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Love: His determination and stubbornness allowed him to kill Enel!
Loathe: He's kind of a jerk to everyone. I don't think I can remember any scene where Wiper isn't angry.
2/5
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if someone came into your home, took your treasured item and kept it for themselves, then later decides that after its become a staple for them to allow it to be shared? What right do they have? it was never theirs to decide.
I don't deny that Wiper had a reason to hate Skypieans, even if he took it too far. But how about Blue Sea people? What did they do to him?