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    Throughout this month, we will be testing new features (like search) so you may experience some hiccups from time to time. We'll try to not be too disruptive...

    Also Sprach Liberty Sea - Ecce Homo (Collection of harmful commentaries and poetry)

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    • taboo
      taboo @Silence
      @Silence last edited by
      taboo
      spiral
      taboo
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      @Silence:

      (12:49:18 AM) Holy Hell: Dear, can you take out the trash?
      (12:49:29 AM) Holy Hell: "Mother, what I see before me … Does it matter what it is? It could be trash, or treasure."
      (12:49:44 AM) Holy Hell: "Human perceptions cloud our judgement. On a molecular level we're all the same."
      (12:50:08 AM) Holy Hell: Honey that's nice, but please put on your pants. Your erection is bothering the neighbors.

      (12:51:03 AM) Silence: hahahaahhahahahahahahahaha
      (12:51:25 AM) Silence: PLEASE tell me I can post this
      (12:51:32 AM) Holy Hell: You can!
      (12:52:49 AM) Holy Hell: Whatever you do with it, it's in your hands now, my friend.
      (12:52:56 AM) Holy Hell: But are either of our hands truly ours?
      (12:53:10 AM) Holy Hell: In a way, all humans are both instances of everything
      (12:53:12 AM) Holy Hell: and instances of nothing.
      (12:54:02 AM) Holy Hell: It can be both my hands, your hands, or even a bird's wing
      (12:54:07 AM) Holy Hell: But it carries as all information does.
      (12:54:17 AM) Holy Hell: "The Emites used to live there--a people strong and numerous, and as tall as the Anakites." - Deuteronomy 2:10

      enlightenment

      ![](images/smilies/ipb/heart.png "Heart")![](images/smilies/ipb/heart.png "Heart") ![](images/smilies/taboo/tabs.png "Ron Swanson")

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      • Sorikai33
        Sorikai33 @Kylor
        @Kylor last edited by
        Sorikai33
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        Sorikai33
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        @Kylor:

        Um, I think I might be reading this wrong, but, from what I've heard so far… feel free to think I'm terrible for saying this, but I think I'm happy with not being enlightened.

        You are not alone in the slightest. Sea needs to work on his sales pitch.

        Steam Profile: Sorikai33 | 3DS Friend Code: 2981 6418 0894

        ^Feel free to add me on either^

        Sig art by Stjepan Sejic

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        • Pochipochi
          Pochipochi @Schwerer Gustav
          @Schwerer Gustav last edited by
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          @Schwerer:

          Holy plagiarized that joke from me nearly verbatim. And now I live in abject poverty because of it.

          But then, what are riches to the enlightened man?

          "If a man beats his male or female slave with a rod and the slave dies as a direct result, he must be punished." - Exodus 21:20

          If you hand me the blueprints to a beautiful home, I will make it. Is it your home, or mine? That is up to you to decide.

          But can we truly build a home? Do we not impart ourselves into the space we habitat over time? Can we ever truly build what humans refer to as "home", where "the heart is?"

          "His master replied, ‘Well done, good and faithful servant! You have been faithful with a few things; I will put you in charge of many things. Come and share your master’s happiness!" - matthew 25:21

          taboo 1 Reply Last reply Reply Quote 0
          • taboo
            taboo @THE SEA
            @THE SEA last edited by
            taboo
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            taboo
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            @THE:

            "The crowd is indeed untruth. Christ was crucified because he would have nothing to do with the crowd (even though he addressed himself to all). He did not want to form a party, an interest group, a mass movement, but wanted to be what he was, the truth, which is related to the single individual. Therefore everyone who will genuinely serve the truth is by that very fact a martyr.
            To win a crowd is no art; for that only untruth is needed, nonsense, and a little knowledge of human passions. But no witness to the truth dares to get involved with the crowd. His work is to be involved with all people, if possible, but always individually, speaking with each and every person on the sidewalk and on the streets in order to split apart. He avoids the crowd, especially when it is treated as authoritative in matters of the truth or when its applause, or hissing, or balloting are regarded as judges.
            Those who speak to the crowd, coveting its approval, those who deferentially bow and scrape before it must be regarded as being worse than prostitutes. They are instruments of untruth. " - thus remarked the great thinker Soren Kierkegaard, and his timeless words proved him to be one of my soul-mates. This is exactly why I told people to get out of here from the beginning. But you have already come here, so why not take a look at what I have to say?

            Only if you would agree to think about what I am going to say. You are a mature man, Gekko, so I am going to talk with you. Let children laugh and play as they are meant to, and let those few mature minds capable of independent thinking engage in serious discussions, in earnest reason and look into the deepest secret of existence. We will touch every matter of life, we will touch quantum physics and see whether God plays dice.

            This is a valid question, and also one of the most important questions in philosophy. Whether you asked this question with serious intention or not, I am going to answer for Truth's sake. School is compulsory.
            Man is an illusion, an hallucination. He never really was, never is and will never be. The meaning of the Universe -the One and the All- is not man. It has long existed before him and will continue without him. If we are going to look at the highest Truth, we must go beyond humanism and humanist thinking.

            In honor of the great soul Miyazaki, allow me to convey my point with one of his most extraordinary statements, which he spoke to us through Nausicaa:
            [hide][qimg]http://i.imgur.com/OCsrB.jpg[/qimg][/hide]
            "Our lives are like the wind…
            Or like sounds
            We come into being, resonate with each other...
            Then fade away..."
            What a profound Truth this is. Perhaps the most spectacular statement in the history of manga, and its profundity has long since been ignored and underestimated.
            Before we look at the nature of human existence, let us take a look at the nature of wind and sound. What is the wind? The flow of gas, the movement of air. That is all it is, a movement, nothing more. It is not an inherent existence, not an entity, a physical being, but simply the moving of something. Is the part of the air that flows separated from the part that doesn't. The truth is, no. The air throughout the Earth is one entity. And to be accurate there is no air that stay still. They all move, some parts more radically than the rest.

            The existence of man is also like that. He is not an entity, and inherent existence, but simply a movement of the Universe. When all the needed atoms move to their 'right places', they construct/conform the shape of what we call man. But, the atoms move constantly, the constructions/conformations of atoms changes constantly, so which construction is man? You at this moment is not you one moment ago. If the atoms move more radically, so that his head is at his bosom, while his right leg is in his neck, would we call that a man? If all the atoms move faster, so that a child immediately becomes an old man, and the old a corpse, and the corpse a collection of dust. Would we call that collection of dust a man, even though the totality of atoms stay the same? We call one a man, and another a collection of dust, which is no different from constantly giving different names to the same wind from time to time, from moment to moment. We invent names and categorize endlessly, but ultimately there is no category other than the All, the Universe.

            Is the human body a separated entity from the rest of the universe. In atomic level, we are no more separated from the rest of the universe than a wind separated from the air. The skin is no definite border, no definite boundary, just like a cloud's body has no definite border from the air in the sky. There is no entity called wind, only the air; and there is no entity called man, only the universe. Ultimately the Universe is the only entity, the only inherent existence, the All and the One. The existence of 'everything else' is purely a human concept and exists purely within the mind. An illusion. Man is a movement of the universe, and during this constant movement consciousness is created from the conformation of matter, of the brain, and this consciousness deludes itself into thinking it has an inherent existence, an entity.
            If there is a giant to whose eyes a million years past in an instant, then the whole 'existence' of humanity is nothing more to him than a wind. All that culture, art, invention, architect, etc.. mean nothing more to him than a wind.

            What is sound? A vibrancy within matter. It too is not an inherent existence, an entity. And there is no sound without the ear and the brain to receive and interpret. Colors are also like this. 'Color derives from the spectrum of light (distribution of light power versus wavelength) interacting in the eye with the spectral sensitivities of the light receptors.' And therefore, without the eyes and the brains, there is no color. This applies to the shapes and forms of everything we see. Without to the brain to receive and interpret, they have no shapes or form. The shapes and forms are therefore constructed purely within the brain and don't exist outside of it.

            If some certain part in the brain stop functioning or can't function well, we can only see in black and white. This proves that there is no immaterial soul that control the body. How can an immaterial soul sees and differentiates one color from another; and hears and differentiates one sound from another and think without the brain? Nothing arises without cause. Even sub-atomic particles have definite number of possibilities and thus are predictable in a certain extent. Every thought and actions we have are conditioned, and determined from beginingless time. It is my destiny to write those words, inevitably, and it is your destiny to read it.

            All these analysis showed us that man is not an inherent existence, an entity like we have thought ourselves to be. All of our selfishness come from this illusion about having a self. More than 2500 years ago a man saw all of this clearly. And he was the original Buddha.
            Allow me to quote the Buddha's Gospel, compiled by Paul Carus:
            [hide]
            All things are made of one essence,
            yet things are different according to the forms
            which they assume under different impressions.

            –---

            There is not a self residing in Name and Form,
            but the co-operation of the conformations
            produce what people call a man.

            Just as the word 'chariot'
            is but a mode of expression for axle, wheels, the chariot-body
            and other constituents in their proper combinations,
            so a living being is the appearance of the groups
            with the four elements as they are joined in a unit.
            There is no self in the carriage
            and there is no self in man.

            This doctrine is sure and an eternal truth,
            that there is no self outside of its parts.
            This self of ours which constitutes Name and Form
            is a combination of the groups with the four elements,
            but there is no ego entity,
            no self in itself.

            Paradoxical though it may sound:
            There is a path to walk on,
            there is walking being done,
            but there is no traveller.
            There are deeds being done, but there is no doer.
            There is a blowing of the air, but there is no wind that does the blowing.
            The thought of self is an error
            and all existences are hollow as the plantain tree
            and as empty as twirling water bubbles.


            He who knows the nature of self
            and understands how the senses act,
            finds no room for selfishness,
            and thus he will attain peace unending.
            The world holds the thought of self,
            and from this arises false apprehension.

            Self is an error, an illusion, a dream.
            Open your eyes and awaken.
            See things as they are
            and you will be comforted.

            He who is awake will no longer be afraid of nightmares.
            He who has recognized the nature of the rope
            that seemed to be a serpent will cease to tremble.

            He who has found there is no self
            will let go all the lusts and desires of egotism.

            The cleaving to things, covetousness,
            and sensuality inherited from former existences,
            are the causes of the misery and vanity in the world.

            Surrender the grasping disposition of selfishness,
            and you will attain to that calm state of mind
            which conveys perfect peace, goodness, and wisdom.

            [/hide]

            We humans, unaware of our true nature, cling to our possessions while we live, and are heart-broken when they are taken away from us. We all know this simple truth, that we all wide die one day, and yet we still cling to worldly possessions, cling to a mirage. Forever do we remain in our illusion, never wake up to truly live. The desire to possess, the desire to hold on to that which will eventually fade away are the root of all pain and all suffering.
            "We die struggling to get born. We never were, never are. We are always in the process of becoming, always separate and detached. Forever outside" - painfully remarked Henry Miller. And truly, look at what we have done. We become the only species who need money to survive on Earth.

            "We are making constant progress, but it is a progress which leads to the operating table, to the poorhouse, to the insane asyium, to the trencher. (The Colossus of Maroussi, p. 81)

            "The aeroplane brings death, the radio brings death, the machine-gun brings death, the tinned goods brings death, the tractor brings death, the priest brings death, the schools brings death, the law brings death, the electricity brings death, the phonograph brings death, the knives and forks brings death, the books brings death, our very breath brings death, our very language, our very thought, our money, our love, our charity, our sanitation, our joy. No matter whether we are friends or enemies, no matter whether we call ourselves Jap , Turk, Russian, French, English, German, or American, wherever we go, wherever we cast our shadow, wherever we breathe, wherever we poison and destroy. Hooray for civilization! Hooray! We will kill you all, everybody. Hooray for Death! Hooray! Horray!" (The Colossus of Maroussi, p. 130 - 131)

            "But all of them, from the top to the bottom, are restless, dissatisfied envious and sick at heart. All of them suffer from cancer and leprosy in their souls. The most ignorant and degenerate of them will be asked to shoulder a gun and fight for a civilization which has brought them nothing but misery and degradation."

            And Henry Miller reminded us of what we must do.

            "Every day we slaughter our finest impulses. That is why we get a heart-ache when we read those lines written by the hand of a master and recognize them as our own, as the tender shoots which we stifled because se we lacked the faith to believe in our own powers, our own criterion of truth and beauty. Every man, when he gets quiet, when he gets desperately honest with himself, is capable of uttering profound truths. We all derive form the same source. There is no mystery about the origin of things. We are all part of creation, all kings, all poets, all musicians; we have only to open up to discover what is already there.

            We invent nothing, truly. We borrow and re-create. We uncover and discover. All has been given, as the mystics say. We have only to open our eyes and hearts, to become one with that which is."

            To become one with That which is, that is the path of the Buddha.
            "Truth is ever present, Eternity is here and now. And salvation? What is it, 0 man, that you wish to save? Your petty ego? Your soul? Your identity? Lose it and you will find yourself…. Cultivate your doubts, embrace every kind of experience, keep on desiring, strive neither to forget nor to remember, but assimilate and integrate what you have experienced."

            All is one, and One is all. This is the Truth in a nutshells.

            "We are all one, we are all an imperiled essence. If at the far end of the world a spirit degenerates, it drags down our spirit into its own degradation. If one mind at the far end of the world sinks into idiocy, our own temples over-brim with darkness.
            For it is only One who struggles at the far end of earth and sky. One. And if He goes lost, it is we who must bear the responsibility. If He goes lost, then we go lost.
            This is why the salvation of the Universe is also our salvation, why solidarity among men is no longer a tenderhearted luxury but a deep necessity and self-preservation, as much a necessity as, in an army under fire, the salvation of your comrade-in-arms." -cried the great writer Nikos Kazantzakis.

            "Yes, the purpose of Earth is not life, it is not man. Earth has existed without these, and it will live on without them. They are but the ephemeral sparks of its violent whirling.Let us unite, let us hold each other tightly, let us merge our hearts, let us create — so long as the warmth of this earth endures, so long as no earthquakes, cataclysms, icebergs or comets come to destroy us — let us create for Earth a brain and a heart, let us give a human meaning to the superhuman struggle."

            "We come from a dark abyss, we end in a dark abyss, and we call the luminous interval life. As soon as we are born the return begins, at once the setting forth and the coming back; we die in every moment. Because of this many have cried out: The goal of life is death! But as soon as we are born we begin the struggle to create, to compose, to turn matter into life; we are born in every moment. Because of this many have cried out: The goal of ephemeral life is immortality! In the temporary living organism these two streams collide ... both opposing forces are holy. It is our duty, therefore, to grasp that vision which can embrace and harmonize these two enormous, timeless, and indestructible forces, and with this vision to modulate our thinking and our action."

            To become one with That which is, after dissolving your delusional ego, is to become a Buddha. He is one with everything and everything is one with him.

            "Those only who do not believe, call me Gautama,
            but you call me the Buddha, the Blessed One, the Teacher.
            And this is right, for I have in this life entered Nirvana,
            while the life of Gautama has been extinguished.
            Self has disappeared
            and the truth has taken its abode in me.
            This body of mine is Gautama's body
            and it will be dissolved in due time,
            and after its dissolution no one,
            neither God nor man,
            will see Gautama again.
            But the truth remains.
            The Buddha will not die;
            the Buddha will continue to live
            in the holy body of the law."
            (The Buddha's gospel).

            To say is easy. Live the Truth.

            I no longer have an ego. I was a wave who thought he was an entity separated from the sea. Now I am one with the sea of the universe. I live Truth and only think about how to free mankind from suffering. I have no self-interest, and am concerned with nothing other than to improve the world. I, the disciple of the Buddha, assigned for myself the mission of walking the path he and many other sages in the path walked.
            "I am concerning myself with only one essential thing: to set man free. I desire to free him from all cages, from all fears, and not to found religions, new sects, nor to establish new theories and new philosophies." - so declared Krishnamurti, and I live by this principle.

            ![](images/smilies/ipb/heart.png "Heart")![](images/smilies/ipb/heart.png "Heart") ![](images/smilies/taboo/tabs.png "Ron Swanson")

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            • Hiroy
              Hiroy
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              Hiroy
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              "And I saw a beast rising out of the sea, with ten horns and seven heads, with ten diadems on its horns and blasphemous names on its heads. And the beast that I saw was like a leopard; its feet were like a bear's, and its mouth was like a lion's mouth. And to it the dragon gave his power and his throne and great authority. One of its heads seemed to have a mortal wound, but its mortal wound was healed, and the whole earth marveled as they followed the beast. And they worshiped the dragon, for he had given his authority to the beast, and they worshiped the beast, saying, “Who is like the beast, and who can fight against it?” And the beast was given a mouth uttering haughty and blasphemous words, and it was allowed to exercise authority for forty-two months. …"
              Revelation 13:1-18

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              • taboo
                taboo @Pochipochi
                @Pochipochi last edited by
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                @The:

                If you hand me the blueprints to a beautiful home, I will make it. Is it your home, or mine? That is up to you to decide.

                But can we truly build a home? Do we not impart ourselves into the space we habitat over time? Can we ever truly build what humans refer to as "home", where "the heart is?"

                "His master replied, ‘Well done, good and faithful servant! You have been faithful with a few things; I will put you in charge of many things. Come and share your master’s happiness!" - matthew 25:21

                ![](images/smilies/ipb/heart.png "Heart")![](images/smilies/ipb/heart.png "Heart") ![](images/smilies/taboo/tabs.png "Ron Swanson")

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                • Nami
                  Nami
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                  Nami
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                  I'm still waiting for the 8 languages.

                  EDIT: Almost forgot the quote

                  "Only two things are infinite. The universe and human stupidity. I am not so sure about the first one." - AlbertEinstein

                  "Unicorns can't see into your heart. All our dumb horns can do is glow, point towards the nearest rainbow and play rave music!"

                  Visit my Etsy Shop: Heart'n'Skull or Tumblr

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                  • Silence
                    Silence
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                    Silence
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                    To speak with it is converse with a wall. We are all children, flailing about helplessly

                    in the sea

                    "But the mountain falls and crumbles away, and the rock is removed from its place; the waters wear away the stones; the torrents wash away the soil of the earth; so you destroy the hope of mortals." Job 14:18-19

                    Originally Posted by Wagomu

                    There's a great lighthearted vibe around here, because no matter how serious we might get, we're all together because of some magical pirate.

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                    • Hiroy
                      Hiroy
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                      What is believing? Worshiping a god or idol? Or is it really seeing with your eyes and witnessing The Truth before you? Atheism and religion has fought an endless and internal stalemate game of tug-o-war. Or is it really a game? Let me enlighten you. Or a matter of fact, let me speak in a tongue that our frequent residents may understand and fully abide in. Games are for children afterall. You like games? Eiichiro Oda has spoken to all of us. Here's his idea of what belief truly is.

                      !


                      "Can a person stand on top an ocean?"
                      Truly, the words of an atheist man. It's not only because he does not believe what he's seeing, he's also scientifically calculating theory to why this pheomia is even possible.
                      "It's cold today isn't it?"
                      "Yeah, it is pretty cold today."
                      These are the words of a believer. The strange man on the water told them it was cold, and they believed it was cold, thus believing that they are actually seeing a man walking on water.

                      THAT is believing.

                      Matthew 14:22-33
                      [hide]
                      "For as the body apart from the spirit is dead, so also faith apart from works is dead." James 2:26

                      22 Immediately Jesus made the disciples get into the boat and go on ahead of him to the other side, while he dismissed the crowd. 23 After he had dismissed them, he went up on a mountainside by himself to pray. Later that night, he was there alone, 24 and the boat was already a considerable distance from land, buffeted by the waves because the wind was against it.

                      25 Shortly before dawn Jesus went out to them, walking on the lake. 26 When the disciples saw him walking on the lake, they were terrified. “It’s a ghost,” they said, and cried out in fear.

                      27 But Jesus immediately said to them: “Take courage! It is I. Don’t be afraid.”

                      28 “Lord, if it’s you,” Peter replied, “tell me to come to you on the water.”

                      29 “Come,” he said.

                      Then Peter got down out of the boat, walked on the water and came toward Jesus. 30 But when he saw the wind, he was afraid and, beginning to sink, cried out, “Lord, save me!”

                      31 Immediately Jesus reached out his hand and caught him. “You of little faith,” he said, “why did you doubt?”

                      32 And when they climbed into the boat, the wind died down. 33 Then those who were in the boat worshiped him, saying, “Truly you are the Son of God.”
                      [/hide]
                      “You of little faith,” he said, “why did you doubt?”
                      “Truly you are the Son of God.”

                      Take this seed my children.
                      Protect it from rats and plague.
                      Plant it in earthen soil.
                      And believe life will grow. So is the growth of humanity

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                      • Robby
                        Robby
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                        I think if anyone remembers this thread in 11 months it will qualify for some sort of forum award.

                        Tsukishima 1 Reply Last reply Reply Quote 0
                        • Mr M
                          Mr M
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                          Mr M
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                          Originally Posted by Kitsune Inferno

                          You are a treasure.

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                          • Tsukishima
                            Tsukishima @Robby
                            @Robby last edited by
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                            @RobbyBevard:

                            I think if anyone remembers this thread in 11 months it will qualify for some sort of forum award.

                            Best thread, I guess.

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                            • T
                              THE SEA @taboo
                              @taboo last edited by
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                              THE SEA
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                              @taboo:

                              what is your opinion on ghosts? because we cannot validate they exist, does this mean they do not exist? this is an example of what I am talking about

                              What do you mean by "ghosts"? Some kind of immaterial soul? There is no such thing. There maybe some kind of strange waves that affect people's brain. But consciousness doesn't exist outside of the brain. Again, why should we care about such things?
                              Why do people focus their attention on me so much, instead of what I say? You see, I didn't invite anyone's attention. They gave me unwanted attention and look at me like an alien. I guess I feel nothing.
                              The point is not whether I am enlightened, but whether you understand what I say. An unenlightened person cannot know whether someone is enlightened, right? So, before I was enlightened, I say to myself :"Let not believe there is any enlightened man!". You should do the same, don't believe I am enlightened just because I say so.
                              But let me talk a bit more on why the self is an illusion. If anyone believes he has a self to serve, he is bound to be selfish no matter what he does, on various levels. Some are more selfish than some other, all are selfish as long as this illusion remains. Every human evil is born from the belief that there is a self. So let see the nature of the self.

                              1- You say you have your body, your brain, your mind, your heart, your past, your future, your point of view, etc. But what is the mere 'you' that possesses all this yours? The 'you' that cannot be put into a 'yours', it is non-existent, isn't it? Everything is made of parts and constituents. There are particles that are arguably have no part, but they have characteristics and attributes cause, so a particle does have 'its'. Imagine a mere sphere. We can say it is made of 'its' two halves, right?

                              2- You can say :"Whatever! Relatively speaking, I am my body. And the soul is something that belongs to the body." But where is the finite border that separates your body from the rest of the universe? Inside you are atoms, outside you are also atoms. Seeing in an atomic level, there is no definite line, so there is basically no inside you nor outside you, which means there is no you.

                              Further more, the atom inside you moves and changes constantly. The lifespan of a quark can be shorter than 1/million second. Which mean your body in this second is something entirely different, entirely new from your body one second ago, even though it doesn't appear obviously to your eyes. So, which body is you?

                              3- You can say "I am my consciousness". But what is consciousness? Electric impulses in your brain, a material process in your brain. A 'process' is not something concrete, not a physical entity, not an inherent existence, isn't it?

                              4- You can say "I am my will". But free will is an illusion. Everything is inevitable and every thought, every decision you made are absolutely conditioned. The fact that quantum physicists can predict the movements of sub-atomic particles within definite statistics proves this. So, your will is not yours, it is the will of Nature.

                              5- You can say" I am something that is different from everything else". Which mean your existence is a contrast. Let expand on this a bit. Imagine that there is a black circle in a white piece of paper. If we paint the whole piece of paper black, the circle would disappear, isn't it. If you paint it all white, the circle would disappear too. Which means the existence of the circle is merely a contrast. You can say that the paint on the circle would have different thickness from the paper, but that too is a contrast. The existence of 'X' is due to the existence of "not X". Is a "constrast" something intrinsic, something inherent, or concrete as a physical entity? No. So existence is purely a human concept.

                              Everything you see, you can see them because of their difference, in color, in shape, in thickness, etc. Their existence is a contrast. Take an example, if you see everything in the color green, and there is not even't different level of dark and light green, or shade, you would be basically blind and the color green is not green. The color green cannot exist without every color else.
                              Imagine that in the whole universe, only a quark exists, and surrounding it is absolute void, absolute vacuum. If we take away the void, would there is the quark any more? Does this thing we call a quark still exist? Can you perceive it?

                              So existence of anything other than 'the whole', 'the all', is basically not inherent, not intrinsic, not dependent, right? Nothing is self-existent, even nothingness. Everything is interconnected, and therefore one.

                              If you can learn to see all this clearly, thoroughly, effortlessly, intuitively, logically, intellectually, empirically, in yourself and then expand to everything within the range of your consciousness, to your perception of the whole universe, you will eventually lose your sense of the self, and are free from the delusion of the self. This can be accomplished through observation and meditation. This is the first step to enlightenment. By then, no matter what you do, you cannot be selfish, because you have no self to serve. The enlightened sage can care about the world or not care about the world. He can go around preaching the Truth to help people escape suffering, or he can hide in the mountain, or he can walk between the crowd without anyone noticing.

                              In my opinion, an enlightened person who fills his mind with nothing other than how to help people become free is truly selfless in every sense of the world. Dealing with the world, he is bound to make errors and suffer because of people's ignorance, but he knows his effort won't be useless.

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                              • Silverblade
                                Silverblade
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                                • TakinawaTonfa
                                  TakinawaTonfa @THE SEA
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                                  @THE:

                                  This is a valid question, and also one of the most important questions in philosophy. Whether you asked this question with serious intention or not, I am going to answer for Truth's sake. School is compulsory.
                                  Man is an illusion, an hallucination. He never really was, never is and will never be. The meaning of the Universe -the One and the All- is not man. It has long existed before him and will continue without him. If we are going to look at the highest Truth, we must go beyond humanism and humanist thinking.

                                  In honor of the great soul Miyazaki, allow me to convey my point with one of his most extraordinary statements, which he spoke to us through Nausicaa:
                                  [hide][qimg]http://i.imgur.com/OCsrB.jpg[/qimg][/hide]
                                  "Our lives are like the wind…
                                  Or like sounds
                                  We come into being, resonate with each other...
                                  Then fade away..."
                                  What a profound Truth this is. Perhaps the most spectacular statement in the history of manga, and its profundity has long since been ignored and underestimated.
                                  Before we look at the nature of human existence, let us take a look at the nature of wind and sound. What is the wind? The flow of gas, the movement of air. That is all it is, a movement, nothing more. It is not an inherent existence, not an entity, a physical being, but simply the moving of something. Is the part of the air that flows separated from the part that doesn't. The truth is, no. The air throughout the Earth is one entity. And to be accurate there is no air that stay still. They all move, some parts more radically than the rest.

                                  The existence of man is also like that. He is not an entity, and inherent existence, but simply a movement of the Universe. When all the needed atoms move to their 'right places', they construct/conform the shape of what we call man. But, the atoms move constantly, the constructions/conformations of atoms changes constantly, so which construction is man? You at this moment is not you one moment ago. If the atoms move more radically, so that his head is at his bosom, while his right leg is in his neck, would we call that a man? If all the atoms move faster, so that a child immediately becomes an old man, and the old a corpse, and the corpse a collection of dust. Would we call that collection of dust a man, even though the totality of atoms stay the same? We call one a man, and another a collection of dust, which is no different from constantly giving different names to the same wind from time to time, from moment to moment. We invent names and categorize endlessly, but ultimately there is no category other than the All, the Universe.

                                  Is the human body a separated entity from the rest of the universe. In atomic level, we are no more separated from the rest of the universe than a wind separated from the air. The skin is no definite border, no definite boundary, just like a cloud's body has no definite border from the air in the sky. There is no entity called wind, only the air; and there is no entity called man, only the universe. Ultimately the Universe is the only entity, the only inherent existence, the All and the One. The existence of 'everything else' is purely a human concept and exists purely within the mind. An illusion. Man is a movement of the universe, and during this constant movement consciousness is created from the conformation of matter, of the brain, and this consciousness deludes itself into thinking it has an inherent existence, an entity.
                                  If there is a giant to whose eyes a million years past in an instant, then the whole 'existence' of humanity is nothing more to him than a wind. All that culture, art, invention, architect, etc.. mean nothing more to him than a wind.

                                  What is sound? A vibrancy within matter. It too is not an inherent existence, an entity. And there is no sound without the ear and the brain to receive and interpret. Colors are also like this. 'Color derives from the spectrum of light (distribution of light power versus wavelength) interacting in the eye with the spectral sensitivities of the light receptors.' And therefore, without the eyes and the brains, there is no color. This applies to the shapes and forms of everything we see. Without to the brain to receive and interpret, they have no shapes or form. The shapes and forms are therefore constructed purely within the brain and don't exist outside of it.

                                  If some certain part in the brain stop functioning or can't function well, we can only see in black and white. This proves that there is no immaterial soul that control the body. How can an immaterial soul sees and differentiates one color from another; and hears and differentiates one sound from another and think without the brain? Nothing arises without cause. Even sub-atomic particles have definite number of possibilities and thus are predictable in a certain extent. Every thought and actions we have are conditioned, and determined from beginingless time. It is my destiny to write those words, inevitably, and it is your destiny to read it.

                                  All these analysis showed us that man is not an inherent existence, an entity like we have thought ourselves to be. All of our selfishness come from this illusion about having a self. More than 2500 years ago a man saw all of this clearly. And he was the original Buddha.
                                  Allow me to quote the Buddha's Gospel, compiled by Paul Carus:
                                  [hide]
                                  All things are made of one essence,
                                  yet things are different according to the forms
                                  which they assume under different impressions.

                                  –---

                                  There is not a self residing in Name and Form,
                                  but the co-operation of the conformations
                                  produce what people call a man.

                                  Just as the word 'chariot'
                                  is but a mode of expression for axle, wheels, the chariot-body
                                  and other constituents in their proper combinations,
                                  so a living being is the appearance of the groups
                                  with the four elements as they are joined in a unit.
                                  There is no self in the carriage
                                  and there is no self in man.

                                  This doctrine is sure and an eternal truth,
                                  that there is no self outside of its parts.
                                  This self of ours which constitutes Name and Form
                                  is a combination of the groups with the four elements,
                                  but there is no ego entity,
                                  no self in itself.

                                  Paradoxical though it may sound:
                                  There is a path to walk on,
                                  there is walking being done,
                                  but there is no traveller.
                                  There are deeds being done, but there is no doer.
                                  There is a blowing of the air, but there is no wind that does the blowing.
                                  The thought of self is an error
                                  and all existences are hollow as the plantain tree
                                  and as empty as twirling water bubbles.


                                  He who knows the nature of self
                                  and understands how the senses act,
                                  finds no room for selfishness,
                                  and thus he will attain peace unending.
                                  The world holds the thought of self,
                                  and from this arises false apprehension.

                                  Self is an error, an illusion, a dream.
                                  Open your eyes and awaken.
                                  See things as they are
                                  and you will be comforted.

                                  He who is awake will no longer be afraid of nightmares.
                                  He who has recognized the nature of the rope
                                  that seemed to be a serpent will cease to tremble.

                                  He who has found there is no self
                                  will let go all the lusts and desires of egotism.

                                  The cleaving to things, covetousness,
                                  and sensuality inherited from former existences,
                                  are the causes of the misery and vanity in the world.

                                  Surrender the grasping disposition of selfishness,
                                  and you will attain to that calm state of mind
                                  which conveys perfect peace, goodness, and wisdom.

                                  [/hide]

                                  We humans, unaware of our true nature, cling to our possessions while we live, and are heart-broken when they are taken away from us. We all know this simple truth, that we all wide die one day, and yet we still cling to worldly possessions, cling to a mirage. Forever do we remain in our illusion, never wake up to truly live. The desire to possess, the desire to hold on to that which will eventually fade away are the root of all pain and all suffering.
                                  "We die struggling to get born. We never were, never are. We are always in the process of becoming, always separate and detached. Forever outside" - painfully remarked Henry Miller. And truly, look at what we have done. We become the only species who need money to survive on Earth.

                                  "We are making constant progress, but it is a progress which leads to the operating table, to the poorhouse, to the insane asyium, to the trencher. (The Colossus of Maroussi, p. 81)

                                  "The aeroplane brings death, the radio brings death, the machine-gun brings death, the tinned goods brings death, the tractor brings death, the priest brings death, the schools brings death, the law brings death, the electricity brings death, the phonograph brings death, the knives and forks brings death, the books brings death, our very breath brings death, our very language, our very thought, our money, our love, our charity, our sanitation, our joy. No matter whether we are friends or enemies, no matter whether we call ourselves Jap , Turk, Russian, French, English, German, or American, wherever we go, wherever we cast our shadow, wherever we breathe, wherever we poison and destroy. Hooray for civilization! Hooray! We will kill you all, everybody. Hooray for Death! Hooray! Horray!" (The Colossus of Maroussi, p. 130 - 131)

                                  "But all of them, from the top to the bottom, are restless, dissatisfied envious and sick at heart. All of them suffer from cancer and leprosy in their souls. The most ignorant and degenerate of them will be asked to shoulder a gun and fight for a civilization which has brought them nothing but misery and degradation."

                                  And Henry Miller reminded us of what we must do.

                                  "Every day we slaughter our finest impulses. That is why we get a heart-ache when we read those lines written by the hand of a master and recognize them as our own, as the tender shoots which we stifled because se we lacked the faith to believe in our own powers, our own criterion of truth and beauty. Every man, when he gets quiet, when he gets desperately honest with himself, is capable of uttering profound truths. We all derive form the same source. There is no mystery about the origin of things. We are all part of creation, all kings, all poets, all musicians; we have only to open up to discover what is already there.

                                  We invent nothing, truly. We borrow and re-create. We uncover and discover. All has been given, as the mystics say. We have only to open our eyes and hearts, to become one with that which is."

                                  To become one with That which is, that is the path of the Buddha.
                                  "Truth is ever present, Eternity is here and now. And salvation? What is it, 0 man, that you wish to save? Your petty ego? Your soul? Your identity? Lose it and you will find yourself…. Cultivate your doubts, embrace every kind of experience, keep on desiring, strive neither to forget nor to remember, but assimilate and integrate what you have experienced."

                                  All is one, and One is all. This is the Truth in a nutshells.

                                  "We are all one, we are all an imperiled essence. If at the far end of the world a spirit degenerates, it drags down our spirit into its own degradation. If one mind at the far end of the world sinks into idiocy, our own temples over-brim with darkness.
                                  For it is only One who struggles at the far end of earth and sky. One. And if He goes lost, it is we who must bear the responsibility. If He goes lost, then we go lost.
                                  This is why the salvation of the Universe is also our salvation, why solidarity among men is no longer a tenderhearted luxury but a deep necessity and self-preservation, as much a necessity as, in an army under fire, the salvation of your comrade-in-arms." -cried the great writer Nikos Kazantzakis.

                                  "Yes, the purpose of Earth is not life, it is not man. Earth has existed without these, and it will live on without them. They are but the ephemeral sparks of its violent whirling.Let us unite, let us hold each other tightly, let us merge our hearts, let us create — so long as the warmth of this earth endures, so long as no earthquakes, cataclysms, icebergs or comets come to destroy us — let us create for Earth a brain and a heart, let us give a human meaning to the superhuman struggle."

                                  "We come from a dark abyss, we end in a dark abyss, and we call the luminous interval life. As soon as we are born the return begins, at once the setting forth and the coming back; we die in every moment. Because of this many have cried out: The goal of life is death! But as soon as we are born we begin the struggle to create, to compose, to turn matter into life; we are born in every moment. Because of this many have cried out: The goal of ephemeral life is immortality! In the temporary living organism these two streams collide ... both opposing forces are holy. It is our duty, therefore, to grasp that vision which can embrace and harmonize these two enormous, timeless, and indestructible forces, and with this vision to modulate our thinking and our action."

                                  To become one with That which is, after dissolving your delusional ego, is to become a Buddha. He is one with everything and everything is one with him.

                                  "Those only who do not believe, call me Gautama,
                                  but you call me the Buddha, the Blessed One, the Teacher.
                                  And this is right, for I have in this life entered Nirvana,
                                  while the life of Gautama has been extinguished.
                                  Self has disappeared
                                  and the truth has taken its abode in me.
                                  This body of mine is Gautama's body
                                  and it will be dissolved in due time,
                                  and after its dissolution no one,
                                  neither God nor man,
                                  will see Gautama again.
                                  But the truth remains.
                                  The Buddha will not die;
                                  the Buddha will continue to live
                                  in the holy body of the law."
                                  (The Buddha's gospel).

                                  To say is easy. Live the Truth.

                                  I no longer have an ego. I was a wave who thought he was an entity separated from the sea. Now I am one with the sea of the universe. I live Truth and only think about how to free mankind from suffering. I have no self-interest, and am concerned with nothing other than to improve the world. I, the disciple of the Buddha, assigned for myself the mission of walking the path he and many other sages in the path walked.
                                  "I am concerning myself with only one essential thing: to set man free. I desire to free him from all cages, from all fears, and not to found religions, new sects, nor to establish new theories and new philosophies." - so declared Krishnamurti, and I live by this principle.

                                  How many roads must a man walk down before you can call him a man?

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                                  • Nami
                                    Nami @TakinawaTonfa
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                                    @TakinawaTonfa:

                                    How many roads must a man walk down before you can call him a man?

                                    At least 8 languages long.

                                    "Unicorns can't see into your heart. All our dumb horns can do is glow, point towards the nearest rainbow and play rave music!"

                                    Visit my Etsy Shop: Heart'n'Skull or Tumblr

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                                    • Kitsune Inferno
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                                      "Let them your servants be born again from the sea, as you were. Bless them with salt, bless them with stone, bless them with steel.
                                      What is dead may never die, but rises again, harder and stronger."

                                      [[Follow me on Twitch!]](http://twitch.tv/kitsuneinferno/)

                                      [[Concerto di Ali: The Battle of Solocima]](showthread.php?t=33896 "Arlong Park Forums - Thread 33896") - [[Spirit Wolf]](showthread.php?t=33362 "Arlong Park Forums - Thread 33362")

                                      [[D.U.R.I.A.N.]](showthread.php?t=32416 "Arlong Park Forums - Thread 32416") - [[Short and Sweet Writing]](showthread.php?t=30536 "Arlong Park Forums - Thread 30536")

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                                      • R
                                        RPGJay
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                                        "That is not dead which can eternal lie
                                        And with stranger aeons even death may die"

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                                        • Silence
                                          Silence
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                                          "One fish, two fish
                                          Red fish, blue fish,
                                          Nick nack, patty wack
                                          Give a dog a bone"

                                          Originally Posted by Wagomu

                                          There's a great lighthearted vibe around here, because no matter how serious we might get, we're all together because of some magical pirate.

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                                          • Gliblord
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                                            Quoth the Book of Job

                                            The glory of his snorting is terrible.

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                                            • Mugiwara_no_Ice
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                                              "This whole cosmos is meaning set up in images,
                                              whoever understands that is from the people of discernment."

                                              Thus said the poet.

                                              Seeking infinity, with all my affinities.

                                              Finding truth, like a falling fruit, my ultimate finality.

                                              Inside my being, the outside, all things; the finite leads the way.

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                                              • Cyan D. Funk
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                                                • Tsukishima
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                                                  The first step is to lose my sanity.

                                                  Now, let's see where this will lead you !

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                                                  • gottalt3OP
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                                                    So if there is no sense of self, why would you find it bad to be selfish? You should have no opinion, for you are nothing more than a contrast.

                                                    And I think I was the only one who tried to take the text seriously. 😕

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                                                    • Nami
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                                                      Another good one by Mister Einstein.

                                                      "If you can't explain it simply, you don't understand it well enough."

                                                      "Unicorns can't see into your heart. All our dumb horns can do is glow, point towards the nearest rainbow and play rave music!"

                                                      Visit my Etsy Shop: Heart'n'Skull or Tumblr

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                                                      • Outerspec
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                                                        What…I don't even....

                                                        Everything's Eventual…

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                                                        • Gliblord
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                                                          I have no ego

                                                          Something wrong with that sentence

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                                                          • Cyan D. Funk
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                                                            Ego sum, ego sum.

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                                                              THE SEA @Gliblord
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                                                              @Tsukishima:

                                                              Now, let's see where this will lead you !

                                                              I think what I have been saying is absolutely logical. People, with common sense and sappy sentiments, are simply not logical enough.
                                                              I talk about atoms, sub-atomic particles, light spectrum interacting with eyes and brain, causal determinism, quantum uncertainty,… and am considered insane.
                                                              People who talk about ghosts, food, fashion,... are considered normal, and people who are so bored with life that they want to find fairies in their shoes and otherworldly creatures are considered interesting.
                                                              You see what kind of world this is.
                                                              Does a dreamer know he is in a dream, and is a madman aware of his madness? Have you been wondering if you are living in an illusion?
                                                              Let me repeat that I am absolutely faithless. I am even more Godless than common Atheists and have no room for faith in a personal God or something nonsensical like soul, because I know for a fact that they don't exist, and I would not pray even in the shittiest foxholes. I have no theory about the world, no presupposition about life, and I interpret Jesus's words as Pantheistic.
                                                              @gotta<3OP:

                                                              So if there is no sense of self, why would you find it bad to be selfish?

                                                              Because to be selfish is to indulge in an illusion.
                                                              Sense of self is something like instinct that was installed in man since he was born, and is further developed as he grows up in his environment. Man is still an animal, he is not yet to to reach the peak of the evolution. To lose sense of self, as I mean it, is to immerse in the awareness of ultimate reality, of the Infinite.

                                                              You should have no opinion, for you are nothing more than a contrast.

                                                              It is people who are nothing more than a contrast that have opinions. The sages become one with That which is, their experiences of Truth are the same, but as they deal with the world, their views about worldly matters can differ due to their backgrounds.

                                                              @Nami:

                                                              At least 8 languages long.

                                                              I have not learned any new language, I was too busy thinking about Truth. Since I have ego, I feel no compel in fulfilling a silly, half-serious statement spoken out of frivolousness made by that Sea guy. But if you want, I can speak 8 languages the next time I post in the confession session thread, another interpretation for the "here" I used.

                                                              @Nami:

                                                              Another good one by Mister Einstein.

                                                              "If you can't explain it simply, you don't understand it well enough."

                                                              Say the guy whose theory was understood by only some dozens of people in the world while he was still around.
                                                              Is it my fault if people refuse to think? Again, if the Truth is easy to understand and practice people would have been all Buddhas.
                                                              Another good one by the Buddha:
                                                              "I have taught the truth which is excellent in the beginning,
                                                              excellent in the middle, and excellent in the end;
                                                              it is glorious in its spirit and glorious in its letter.
                                                              But simple as it is, the people cannot understand it.
                                                              I must speak to them in their own language.
                                                              I must adapt my thoughts to their thoughts.
                                                              They are like unto children, and love to hear tales.
                                                              Therefore, I will tell them stories to explain the glory of the Dharma.
                                                              If they cannot grasp the truth in the abstract arguments by which I have reached it,
                                                              they may nevertheless come to understand it, if it is illustrated in parables."
                                                              @Gliblord:

                                                              Something wrong with that sentence

                                                              That is because words cannot convey truth sufficiently. You see, I only use 'I' for convenience. That is why I bracketed "I" in my poem.

                                                              Humanism is like this: we are born humans, so we should be proud of being humans no matter what we do. By that logic, a dog should be proud of being born a dog, a bug should be proud of being a bug. And a Vietnamese must be proud of being born a Vietnamese. You see, we didn't choose what kind of creatures we are. Evolution goes on. A monkey must become a human, and a human must become the Overman.

                                                              "I teach you the Overman! Mankind is something to be overcome. What have you done to overcome mankind?

                                                              All beings so far have created something beyond themselves. Do you want to be the ebb of that great tide, and revert back to the beast rather than overcome mankind? What is the ape to a man? A laughing-stock, a thing of shame. And just so shall a man be to the Overman: a laughing-stock, a thing of shame. You have evolved from worm to man, but much within you is still worm. Once you were apes, yet even now man is more of an ape than any of the apes.

                                                              Even the wisest among you is only a confusion and hybrid of plant and phantom. But do I ask you to become phantoms or plants?

                                                              Behold, I teach you the Overman! The Overman is the meaning of the earth. Let your will say: The Overman shall be the meaning of the earth! I beg of you my brothers, remain true to the earth, and believe not those who speak to you of otherworldly hopes! Poisoners are they, whether they know it or not. Despisers of life are they, decaying ones and poisoned ones themselves, of whom the earth is weary: so away with them! "
                                                              (Nietzsche, Thus Spoke Zarathustra)
                                                              To become one with the Earth, the Universe, is to become its meaning.

                                                              Do people want to become free? They would rather remain in their illusion. This badly illustrated comic show you what it is:
                                                              [hide] [/hide]

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                                                              • Hiroy
                                                                Hiroy
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                                                                Why are you wasting your time on this forum?

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                                                                  THE SEA @Hiroy
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                                                                  @Hiroy:

                                                                  Why are you wasting your time on this forum?

                                                                  Valid question. Remember that I didn't ask anyone to come to this thread. But since they already came, 'I' said to 'myself' :"Okay, why not try explaining it to them for once to see how much they are interested in logic and reason. Maybe there are some among them who are capable of logical thinking. Maybe there are hopes in them. It is a good chance to put my thought into words. "
                                                                  But now I can be sure that I should have been doing what Ashina was doing.

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                                                                  • taboo
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                                                                    ![](images/smilies/ipb/heart.png "Heart")![](images/smilies/ipb/heart.png "Heart") ![](images/smilies/taboo/tabs.png "Ron Swanson")

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                                                                      RPGJay
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                                                                      I'll post something not-so-silly.

                                                                      Have you ever considered Socrates' words? As in, "All I know is I know nothing".

                                                                      You are certainly determined in your endeavors to search for "the Truth". However, at risk of sounding horribly nihilistic, have you stopped and considered that there isn't a Truth? Not in everything, there do exist some degree of universal truths, but that there may not exist a universal way of being/living human?

                                                                      It just seems as if you're going through every possible piece of philosophy or religious text looking for something, some connection or deeper meaning, when there could just be nothing there and you're coming off as prententious by using shoddy patchwork philosophy as a result?

                                                                      Other than that I'm really not going to try to debate any points in particular. Except for ghosts. Those exist bro. I've seen them with my own eyes.

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                                                                      • Cyan D. Funk
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                                                                        I'll elaborate, despite I thought you already knew it…

                                                                        Urgency: Zoro has to leave the island to meet his nakama _!

                                                                        Event: Zoro doesn't "train" on the island, instead, he leaves the island at whatever time period that was [insert x variable here]… Perona acts because of two reasons:
                                                                        -Zoro's character needs a plot device to allow him a chance at reaching the correct destination.
                                                                        -Perona's self interest could be a spark of her most recent speech where she ponders what the fate of Moria was, which is just an initial resolve builder. Coupled with the linear future she's bound to have staying on this island: alone (with Mihawk, perhaps), lonely, bored, etc., she would more than likely choose to follow/assist Zoro, for lack of a better option.

                                                                        How it happens? It doesn't concern itself at all-- One day... Perona sees Zoro cursing at the ship, because he departed from the island all to suddenly float right back to the shore from which he left!! This is not what it is about.

                                                                        After this has happened, Perona would appear on SA with Zoro there, nonetheless... Story would proceed to bring in something that would play a factor in providing the initial thrust that will get Perona going: she is delighted to find her "provisions" on the Sunny.

                                                                        With these "events" [obviously, this is no longer possible], her foundation to being a viable nakama (of the future…) has already begun taking root. It is already in motion, therefore, it would need a "closure" that can either confirm or dismiss her potential case [i.e. an introduction of a future arc that is due to her presence…]

                                                                        That was then, the major player of that situation was the mystery of the crew being "safe and sound" of which would undoubtedly affect Zoro's pace. It would make Zoro hasten his return, as the priority as opposed to allow him to stall any longer due to the big unknown of the crew's independent fate. It was also why they were in such a panic and trying to leap over elephants just to find each other…

                                                                        Of course, this doesn't exist anymore. Zoro is no longer pushed for time and being forced to haste his progress just to confirm the truth. He knows the truth, and he decided to do what he could only do: train. We no longer have any conflict at all... Just a random day in the life of Zoro. It is no longer about "meeting up and sailing to FI!!" like it used to be, it is about a completely different matter. The only constant that remains is the inability that Zoro has: directionless personality trait.

                                                                        Using that, there is now only one other variable that could affect Perona in a direct way, direct enough to force her to come with him. If she doesn't follow him, she cannot join. That's fact. Therefore, the "reader" must be given a small message that allows them to expect a certain character helping another just so that character can be a probable character in the plot. It is the simplest usage of characters, often frowned upon too: plot device.

                                                                        In two years time, Zoro will need to meet up on SA. Therefore, the only problem here is that Zoro must be able to follow the directions to reach that destination. Oda can choose these:
                                                                        -Mihawk offers his help, Perona stays behind.
                                                                        -Perona offers her help, Mihawk stays behind.
                                                                        -Zoro is suddenly able to do it on his own.
                                                                        -All three work together to head forward.
                                                                        =Insert any other idea that isn't hinted on.

                                                                        The only real alternatives a writer can take would be either of these: 1,2,4.

                                                                        The first is possible, however, that would force Mihawk to agree. Is he submissive enough, does he gain anything from this, etc. Chances aren't high.
                                                                        The second is possible, as Mihawk's home is his home which makes it pointless for him to have to leave. She's an outsider, and has no place there >> perfect for plot device. Therefore, she'd be the better alternative. This step currently lacks the visual proof of a working boat, though.
                                                                        The last one is possible if they all agree... It would also need confirmation from the manga concerning a device that can take them.

                                                                        So, you see, the original problem that damned Zoro a chance to leave is still in play despite the occurrence of this time skip. Zoro will still need a helper to help him off of the island. This is one of the earliest points that a Pro-Perona individual would make. Honestly, the most stable one too.

                                                                        I don't know if you ever heard of a riddle where there's this boat, a man, and two animals/ or more; pig and wolf.... The riddle leaves situations in which the man has to move his "pig" from one place to another, and so on. Of course, there are conditions in which the man cannot just take every animal and then take the trip. So, the man would have to take the wolf or the dog or two of the animals, then come back, then take the pig... etc. Anyway, this example I'm using is what this is about, except just a one-way trip:
                                                                        Zoro cannot go on a boat on his own.
                                                                        Mihawk doesn't like other people. Mihawk has a boat.
                                                                        Perona can go on a boat on her own.
                                                                        Zoro and Perona lack a boat. Mihawk gave Zoro a boat before.

                                                                        Solution:
                                                                        Mihawk hates people so he's not going.
                                                                        Perona and Zoro go because they don't belong. They get a boat.

                                                                        This does include the time-skip's existence, really...

                                                                        True. I'm not asking them to do this either, I'm asking them to influence her in a way that makes her change to fit them. The only thing that I'm trying to argue is the means that force her to go... Not the mental reasons.

                                                                        I left that to be simple: Perona would rather be with another person than she would be alone. Therefore, she'd have to be with a person, rather than stay alone. Since she does not like being alone, she cannot be left behind while Zoro and Mihawk go on ahead. Mihawk does like being alone, therefore, he can stay. Or, they can all come together at once.

                                                                        That is just the basis to getting her ass on the railroad tracks, themselves. Getting on the ship, however, would take a change for the best, using her own effort. She would have to make that leap on her own, which would either come in the form of something simple, small, and quick. After that, it would be the deeper point of view, where she could choose the "experiences" she shared with the crew, or whatever other option that presents itself. For example:
                                                                        -Robin picked the crew, over her stubbornness and trust in her fears.
                                                                        -Nami, same, did too.
                                                                        -Vivi picked her obligation to her kingdom, than her experiences to travel with them >> later commenting about "take me along next time!!" puke
                                                                        -Perona would be the object of attention: will she pick whatever duty comes into play, or choose them over that duty. [If she is allowed a "temp." status still…]

                                                                        If she picks them over the duty, then she will understand that she's the one that will need to change her ways to stand by them, with them. But before this happens, if at all, she'd need to first MEET them all, and then share an experience with them. She needs to see their "bright and colorful" sides before she ever has reason to accept them…

                                                                        How could she gain that "now" at this moment in the story? Honestly, she cannot. Therefore, she would need to have a way of extending her "existence" a little longer, to insert what drastic life changing event will give her the "go!" that she needs to make it all happen.

                                                                        We cannot know what that "go!" is because we lack a background for her character, therefore, we do not understand her to predict this. We do, however, understand that there could be a way for her to extend her stay in the story. Am I wrong?

                                                                        Again, it could be a more "apparent" showing than those two. What we see are the side effects of that backstory, the one that explains why she is as she is… We can only see her results, but not what made them.

                                                                        Then, when time comes, we can be introduced to the explanation behind why she's the freaky child she is now... As a "closure" of some sorts.

                                                                        This is a possibility, though.

                                                                        Again, it isn't at that stage yet...

                                                                        There was no "proof" for a time-skip to happen, until like about two weeks ago... Am I wrong?

                                                                        [Note: length is what I'm talking about… Not just the "skip" of a short one.]

                                                                        For Perona, we know nothing of what Oda is going to do with her, right? We can only estimate, and speculate of the outcome.

                                                                        So, he hasn't stated: "Perona is/n't joining!"

                                                                        Can we take the initiative and confirm something as fact, without any evidence at all? No. We can rant about this and that, to our heart's content, but we'll never be able to explain it as a fact because it has not happened yet.

                                                                        It isn't about "wanting" to be one; he's stuck with the job… He's stuck with idiots around him that would do anything to stop him. He cannot help it...

                                                                        You "do" get officially called a Yonkou--otherwise, it wouldn't be a title.

                                                                        Frankly, the only way to avoid that "title" is to surpass it... Meaning, the people that fail to get the "PK" treasure, those people end up being stuck in the stalemate forever.

                                                                        It naturally means you missed out on getting OP and have to wait another time or else._

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                                                                        • Pochipochi
                                                                          Pochipochi
                                                                          last edited by
                                                                          Pochipochi
                                                                          spiral
                                                                          Pochipochi
                                                                          spiral

                                                                          There is effectively nothing but misplaced paraphrasing, constant applications of quotes to vaguely related material, and the phrasing of statements to come off as highly intellectual and well thought out. You are not challenging us with your words. I assure you quite a lot of the people reading your posts do not, in fact, understand what you're saying and perhaps the references to established philosophical material goes over their heads. This is not because they are not on the path to enlightenment, ignorant, or unintelligent. It's because you have a terrible way with words, you're actually delving into utter nonsense a significant amount of the time, you're developing your own baseless jargon and sometimes even outright elaborating in cyclical movements that are confirmed by themselves.

                                                                          But nobody is buying it Sea. We are quite aware you do not truly believe in any of this and you do not truly, in your heart, understand entirely all of what you're saying and what it means. A pretty huge amount of what you're saying in fact is worded in a manipulative manner, not in an "Enlightened" one. As an example, The way you're putting "I" in quotation marks. You know that an "Enlightened one", by both your definition and your understanding of basic texts, would be beyond humanity, thus you decide "if this is how it must be, then I shall write as such so I may believe it myself!" I could spend quite a while elaborating, but the point is made and I don't have time. You're throwing a whole lot of nothing out and doing all you can to play a part, look the part.

                                                                          You are not the Ryu of the scientific and philosophical communities, absorbing the world's worth of information and transforming it into one ultimate "martial art" of thought and enlightenment.

                                                                          You are a child with little life experience with access to Google (I wonder if you've even been to a library and tried reading actual physical, unabridged material) who has read summations of metaphysical texts and pretended you understood the material fully. You do not have an ego, it's true. You developed a fake one because you have no self confidence, if I may offer a possible explanation. The "TRUTH" is that you hate yourself, you want an identity, and you're a desperate 19 year old who is struggling to find a place in life. This is you're way of trying to bolster yourself. It's nothing more than sad (though I do not sympathize with you) and quite frankly, irritating.

                                                                          You're nothing more than a child and you know nothing.

                                                                          Get out, Sea.

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                                                                          • Gliblord
                                                                            Gliblord
                                                                            last edited by
                                                                            Gliblord
                                                                            spiral
                                                                            Gliblord
                                                                            spiral

                                                                            This thread, it's…

                                                                            It's...

                                                                            transcending dimensions

                                                                            ௲൰ℜ༮፻፶᧚㈧൳§⌘

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                                                                            • taboo
                                                                              taboo
                                                                              last edited by
                                                                              taboo
                                                                              spiral
                                                                              taboo
                                                                              spiral

                                                                              one last Frollo gif for the road

                                                                              !

                                                                              ![](images/smilies/ipb/heart.png "Heart")![](images/smilies/ipb/heart.png "Heart") ![](images/smilies/taboo/tabs.png "Ron Swanson")

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