CaptainYama, your posts are beautiful and true. Robin had a higher bounty than Luffy when she joined. Yes, technically Luffy had just earned a higher bounty and we hadn't seen it yet but… Luffy's bounty is also presently outdated. By two years. So it's basically the same thing.
He has done nothing to warrant an increase except not be dead…
@Lazy:
He has done nothing to warrant an increase except not be dead…
What did he do to earn his bounty in Alabasta? No, that point won't get across. Look, Luffy took out a Pacifista, Sanji and Zoro took out a Pacifista, and then after evading Sentoumaru we have [[URL="http://www.mangafox.com/manga/one_piece/v59/c603/4.html"]this scene]. The Marines know, and the news about them being back are being circulated. If they don't get a bounty raise from Sentoumaru's comments and other things that have transpired, then they will very, very soon. So like Robin's case, the bounties are outdated.
Robin had a higher bounty than Luffy when she joined. Yes, technically Luffy had just earned a higher bounty and we hadn't seen it yet but…
Gotta correct you. We saw Luffy's new bounty several chapters before we knew that Robin was even on the boat.
But for all we know Oda will show Luffy's new 500m bounty before Jimbei says yes, so hey.
Not that it would matter if he didn't.
As for what Luffy has done to "earn" an increase… keep in mind his 400m bounty was with his pre-timeskip strength. And strength is a very important part of one's bounty, see Zoro's being a decent chunk higher than Nico Robin's after Enies Lobby. Luffy was close to Jimbei's threat level despite being far weaker than him. Imagine now that he's stronger.
Why are people saying Jinbei traveled in the New World? Was this ever mentioned in the manga?
considering how close he is to both Whitebeard and Ace, and how close fishman island is to the New World, and ALSO him having some 300 or so bounty before he became a warlord, to expect him to not have been to the New World is just rediculous.
And strength is a very important part of one's bounty,
No it isn't . Threat level is.
Blackbeard had a bounty of 0. Chopper's is 50 cents. Robin's was 79 mill when she was eight. Croc and Boa were less than 100 mill. Buggy is now likely a shichibukai. Kidd got his bountry raised in bits by killing civilians. Luffy now has the highest revealed bounty in the series, and its horrendously outdated.
Bounties are an indicator of strength, but they aren't just for that.
Gotta correct you. We saw Luffy's new bounty several chapters before we knew that Robin was even on the boat.
But for all we know Oda will show Luffy's new 500m bounty before Jimbei says yes, so hey.
Not that it would matter if he didn't.
As for what Luffy has done to "earn" an increase… keep in mind his 400m bounty was with his pre-timeskip strength. And strength is a very important part of one's bounty, see Zoro's being a decent chunk higher than Nico Robin's after Enies Lobby. Luffy was close to Jimbei's threat level despite being far weaker than him. Imagine now that he's stronger.
I doubt his actions on Shabondy raised his bounty, so he should be kept at 400m right now. He only took out a pacifista. If taking out a pacifista means your over 400m bounty then there is going to be a SHIT TON of people with super high bounties in the New World, not to mention then both Zoro and Sanji will jump to 400+ million.
If I am not entirely wrong, the purpose of bounties is to publically announce the targets with a reward, enticing others to attack the targeted person. The money offered reflects a few things such as how dangerous the person is, how severe the crimes are, or how much the office wants to either capture or kill said person. Surely, the reward can also be an instrument of encouraging results faster, like we saw with Robin. 79 million on small child easily tempted others to try and capture her. Robin had to spend 20 years running because the poster plagued her reputation. A trait with posters I like, its that one. The person given the bounty doesnt necessarily have to be evil in any way or not even a lawbreaker. The bounty is going to tempt others for the reward.
A wanted man thus will be faced with not only the lawmen, but others that would attack him for the money or fame.
The marines put various bounties ranging up towards hundreds of millions on criminals who live outside the law, lets say Luffy. As the reward goes higher, less and less people are going to be attracted to man-hunts because of said reward reflecting the potency of the target. A group of farmers might go after someone worth up to 5000, but higher bounties will require specially organized attempts and so the poster can reach a limit. Thats as far as bounties have gotten in One Piece thus far as we've seen some ridiculous sums of over several hundred millions. But we rarely see any regular people try and capture or kill a wanted person, only bounty hunters or other criminals pirates looking for the fame.
Not to sound annoyed or anything, but what people are going to actively hunt these people? At best its leagues of notorious bounty hunters and even they have their limits. Beyond that the marines or WG are going to have to take care of it themselves.
So bounties definitely have their reward limits. I'd put that limit somewhere at the point when it no longer makes a difference on what people are going to be tempted by the reward, because more money is not going to help the capture in the slightest.
Will be interesting to know if thats the point where One Piece reaches the later acts of the story.
One more thing to look forward to finding out. 
No it isn't . Threat level is
As I recall it, bounty reflects threat level. And strength is one of the factors that decide threat level. For some examples of how important is is, Jimbei's bounty exceeded Luffy's despite Luffy being… well, I don't need to go through it all. That's because Jimbei was hella stronger than Luffy pre-timeskip. Zoro's after Enies Lobby was higher than Robin's, despite Robin being the last known Poneglyph reader. We can see from that how highly the World Government values strength when they set bounties. I didn't say bounties are just for strength or anything of the sort, or that it's an infallible measurement, and neither is in opposition to the point I was making. Namely that Luffy's bounty is bound to go up considerably because he has become far stronger.
What did he do to earn his bounty in Alabasta? No, that point won't get across. Look, Luffy took out a Pacifista, Sanji and Zoro took out a Pacifista, and then after evading Sentoumaru we have [[URL="http://www.mangafox.com/manga/one_piece/v59/c603/4.html"]this scene]. The Marines know, and the news about them being back are being circulated. If they don't get a bounty raise from Sentoumaru's comments and other things that have transpired, then they will very, very soon. So like Robin's case, the bounties are outdated.
As we saw at Marineford, taking out a Pacifista doesn't make you an incredible pirate, unless in the NW bounties are inflated.
And for your strikethrough point, the people in charge of his bountry knew he defeated Crocodile…
They're stronger, but there's no reason to increase his bounty from 400 million, which is already insanely high, over one incident where he didn't do anything particularly frightening that would increase it especially. I mean, it's already been said it takes a lot to raise your bounty from 400 million...
As I recall it, bounty reflects threat level. And strength is one of the factors that decide threat level.
Strenght is important in the equation, but it doesn't determine threat level. Let's say it doesn't matter strenght itself, but in what actions you put your strenght.
Example: Whitebeard was the strongest man in the world, correct? So we can assume he had a hella high bounty on his head. But Dragon? He's the n°1 wanted person in the whole world, so we can assume his bounty is bigger than Whitebeard's. But we can't say he's phisically stronger than Whitebeard.
I know it doesn't determine threat level… I'm saying it's an important part of it. Obviously, the condition for that is that the WG is AWARE of your strength to start with, and that you are somehow opposed to them. And then as you say, there are other factors that come into it as well. But strength is very important, that's not in question. So as my only point with this has been, when Luffy returned to Sabaody several times stronger than he used to be - that's well and enough of a reason for his threat level, i.e. bounty, to be given a solid raise.
For some examples of how important is is, Jimbei's bounty exceeded Luffy's despite Luffy being… well, I don't need to go through it all. That's because Jimbei was hella stronger than Luffy pre-timeskip.
Strength is important, but Jinbe most likely got a higher bounty than Luffy after the events because he was a greater threat. I'm not going to argue with you whether Jinbe was stronger than Luffy pre-timeskip, but…
He worked with the Shichibukai and decided to quit. Plus he decided to help Whitebeard in the Marineford War. It's shown as a direct betrayal against the World Government. He could have learned valuable secrets too about the WG during this time. The consequences of such a betrayal needed to be portrayed as a grave sin.
Threat is what decides bounties, yes. But strength is a part of threat. Am I using these terms differently than the norm somehow?
Do you honestly think that Jimbei had more, let's call them "other factors" than Luffy? Son of the world's most wanted criminal, brother to the Pirate King's son. Brought shame to the Marines' two never in history overtaken facilities, Enies Lobby & Impel Down. Showed his Haoshoku Haki to everyone present at Marineford and was regarded for it as an insurmountable potential future threat. Jimbei didn't make the World Government very happy at all, but if you really think he did more than Luffy, or even nearly as much… we'll just have to agree to disagree.
I have a feeling that next week's chapter is going to be the start of a flash back and it will still be a few weeks before we get Jinbe's answer.
Do you honestly think that Jimbei had more, let's call them "other factors" than Luffy? Son of the world's most wanted criminal, brother to the Pirate King's son. Brought shame to the Marines' two never in history overtaken facilities, Enies Lobby & Impel Down. Showed his Haoshoku Haki to everyone present at Marineford and was regarded for it as an insurmountable potential future threat. Jimbei didn't make the World Government very happy at all, but if you really think he did more than Luffy, or even nearly as much… we'll just have to agree to disagree.
Marines knew of Luffy's relation to Ace and Dragon and the Enies Lobby stunt gave him a 300 million bounty. And despite being shown to have the Conquerer's disposition they knew he had no control over it yet. When they realize he does have control over it his threat will be higher which would increase his bounty, but that's similar to the "Strength" which I do admit is a part of the formula.
If strength was the main indicator for Jinbe's rise in bounty and why it's higher than Luffy, then Jinbe should've gotten a larger bounty than 250 million given there's no indication he's gotten "stronger" or "weaker" since he joined the Shichibukai. It's because of the betrayal that caused his bounty to rise so much, and yeah we'll just have to agree to disagree as to whether he deserves a higher bounty or not. I'm just saying that Jinbe didn't have a higher bounty pre-timeskip because he's stronger than Luffy.
So how bout this chapter "touching" don't you think
Threat is what decides bounties, yes. But strength is a part of threat. Am I using these terms differently than the norm somehow?
Do you honestly think that Jimbei had more, let's call them "other factors" than Luffy? Son of the world's most wanted criminal, brother to the Pirate King's son. Brought shame to the Marines' two never in history overtaken facilities, Enies Lobby & Impel Down. Showed his Haoshoku Haki to everyone present at Marineford and was regarded for it as an insurmountable potential future threat. Jimbei didn't make the World Government very happy at all, but if you really think he did more than Luffy, or even nearly as much… we'll just have to agree to disagree.
I don't think Jinbe did any more-or-less things than Luffy did to anger the Government, but also remember he betrayed the government DIRECTLY. After being a loyal Warlord. Even Sengoku was surprised that he was angry with the war on Whitebeard. Luffy, it was expected of. He already gave the middle finger to them back at Enies Lobby, and he just gave them two middle fingers at Impel Down, and Marineford. Also remember Luffy was an active Pirate, and had the direct relationship to Ace. Jinbe was called to Marineford to be used as a solider for the Marines. They expected him to comply. Instead, he made a scene at Marine HQ, angry with the war, and was taken to Marineford.
The last thing the Marines needed right before a war with the strongest Pirate, his crew, and an alliance of other strong pirates, is a Marine ally betraying them.
Also we don't know how soon after the war the bounties where updated. Jinbe didn't stay on Fishman Island for two presumed reasons: Not wanting Fishman Island to be associated with him, ruining their chance at getting to the Reverie, and Marines coming to attack him at the island. This implies that Jinbe was pretty confident that somebody would spot him, and make it public he was at Fishman Island.
For all we know Jinbe had a small battle with Marines before going to Fishman Island. Luffy was presumed dead after dissapearing. Think about it like this: Luffy, Jinbe and Rayleigh came to Marineford. Luffy had his picture taken in the paper, showing him visibly wounded from the war, but well enough to come to MF. Then a little while later, Jinbe is spotted, but without Luffy. This goes on a little longer before the bounties are released, and still no sign of Luffy. Take into account the reasons I stated he should have a higher bounty, and it would make sense for the Marines to put Jinbe's bounty a little bit higher than a man that might possibly be dead.
Also remember, Jinbe's is still in the 400 mil range. It could simply be 450 mil, which really wouldn't make a difference.
It'd be great if Luffy got a higher bounty not so long after that, marines should be next to be messing with after all. Than hopefully Luffy's bounty will be higher than Jinbei.
@Lazy:
As we saw at Marineford, taking out a Pacifista doesn't make you an incredible pirate, unless in the NW bounties are inflated.
No, there are 3 captains in that scene. Oda drew those for a reason.
You're right those are captains. Though I think there are 4-5. Elmy, Choi, Rush, Pavik, and I think Arthur, who we really don't have good pics of. Here's a scene that looks like is more like regular crewmen against Pacifista: c562. Here Squad says the crews in back (that'd be the allied crews) are having a hard time c562.
The only Pacifista that we see successfully attacked– not destroyed, per se-- was taken by a group effort from some New World captains. I'd rather not debate the point, but I thought I would point that out. What really matters is what Sentoumaru said, and what we already know. Oda won't just leave them all on outdated bounties, or for that matter leave Jinbe with the highest bounty.
If Jinbe can go above 400, why can't Luffy? Why wouldn't it be now when the crew is clearly deserving of it? Luffy led the breakout that destroyed Impel Down, brought hundreds of convicts to Marineford, including two ex-Warlords and a leader of the Revolutionary Army, actually saved Ace during Marineford, was revealed to be Dragon's son, returned to Marineford later and caused even more destruction while "declaring war", and then disappeared. I dunno about you, but I think all of that warrants more than a measly increase from 320 to 400mil. Whatever reason they had to only adjust his bounty slightly at the time– my guess would be physical prowess-- is now long gone. To quote Sentoumaru:
@Lazy:
They're stronger, but there's no reason to increase his bounty from 400 million, which is already insanely high, over one incident where he didn't do anything particularly frightening that would increase it especially.
"It's the Straw Hats themselves that have changed!! The level of growth they displayed after these two years in hiding is nothing short of incredible!!! You'd better make this nice and clear to Marine HQ!!!"
I doubt his actions on Shabondy raised his bounty, so he should be kept at 400m right now. He only took out a pacifista. If taking out a pacifista means your over 400m bounty then there is going to be a SHIT TON of people with super high bounties in the New World, not to mention then both Zoro and Sanji will jump to 400+ million.
Taking out a Pacifista a big feat, even NW captains had a very hard time aganist them. And Sentomaru's report seems like a very valid reason to rise the bounty after witnessing how horrendously stronger they got.
Jinbe should've gotten a larger bounty than 250 million given there's no indication he's gotten "stronger" or "weaker" since he joined the Shichibukai
Whelp, we're just going to really have to leave it at agreeing to disagree because I think he has gotten much stronger over those 10 years. I always interpreted this as Oda taking the chance with Jimbei to show how outdated and misleading that 250m bounty really was - he's a guy who deserves 400m+. Just like the bounties of Moria, Kuma, Hancock and Doflamingo are wildly misleading as to their strength if you take them at face value. Or at least the latter three. If you think Kuma's strength is around the same as pre-TS Luffy's, you're in for one hell of a surprise. Jimbei is clearly no exception after we've seen how immensely powerful he is throughout Fishman Island.
I don't think Jinbe did any more-or-less things than Luffy did to anger the Government
Going to have to simply disagree with you, too, because PK's brother; PE #1's son; shattered the WG's throughout all history unbroken fortresses; possessing the CotC AKA flashing neon sign of a massive future enemy is, to me, considerably more than Jimbei's betrayal.
Whatever reason they had to only adjust his bounty slightly at the time– my guess would be physical prowess-- is now long gone.
Exactly. With how comparatively weak Luffy was pre-timeskip, he just wasn't going to explode too high in bounty. We have to keep in mind that bounty is THREAT level. The overall level of threat you pose to the government and its people. The weaker you are, the easier you can be taken out. That's common sense. That plays a big part in how big of a threat you really are.
EDIT: holy shit this post is long as balls. You guys don't have to read this, these are just my personal opinions on this arc as a whole as well as Jinbe's joining. Sorry if i get in any sort of trouble due to the length or anything cause of this post.
Ok. I am not really a new member, I have been on Arlong Park Forums lurking for like 2 years now. I really only go to the spoiler section, of course, but because of all this Jinbe stuff I got motivated to post here. As these are my opinions, I understand they don't really hold any water for anyone, but feel free to go ahead and read them.
Firstly, I want to say that, I like Jinbe. I think he's a really cool character. But at the same time, I can understand where the jinbe haters are coming from. He's not exactly the most interesting man in the world (when i drink, i prefer dos equis), and I agree that for him to be a strawhat is an odd choice. However, having said that, you guys have to remember that oda is an author, and because he is a story teller, every arc must have some meaning and purpose beyond the obvious.
I also agree with many people here that fishman island was passable, not great, etc. However, since I have worked on a shounen manga of my own a while back, I take a step back and try to analyze it from a broader perspective. I think a lot of why people don't like fishman island is because of hype. Point being, that Oda set up Fishman Island for so long, ever since Water 7, that when we finally got here things did not meet everyone's expectations, even subconsciously. This could either be an intrinsic problem of the arc itself, or the hype surrounding it. But from a story standpoint, Fishman Island accomplishes a lot of things.
It more clearly defines human-fishman relations–wrapping up that plot thread since Saboady--and showcases the Strawhat's massive powerup since the time skip. Maybe pre time-skip, Hordy Jones might have been an admirable and powerful villain, who would have given the protagonists a lot more trouble, but after the time skip, he's nothing. If the strawhats cant even handle a villain like jones and his crew as easily as they did, they aren't ready for the new world. But all of these facts are easily discernible to everyone. I look at this like a dialogue heavy episode of the Walking Dead. I know, weird analogy, but in that show not every episode is filled with action. Some are just filled with dialogue, but they have to be in order to set up events for future episodes.
That's how I view fishman island. On its own, it's not great, but in the grand scheme of things, who knows? It could very well set up things that have major ripples later on, and if not, at least it served as a link between pre time-skip strawhats and post
Can someone please give me a legitimate reason why this arc is passable
Arguments that don't count on their own:
Hody is weak
Fishman Island is not New World
Hype
Flashback was placed at a crucial moment (fixed when reading without time constraints)
I have my peeves with some of the stuff here….but its nothing that every other arc got perfect. I see no reason for hating the arc aside from the reasons listed above that are hardly problems with the arc itself
It's certainly true that hype shouldn't have anything to do with whether or not the arc on its own was good or not. I think the thing about Fishman Island is that, if you compare it to every other major arc, we see that each arc accomplishes something that the reader can get really personally involved into. In Arabasta, Luffy stopped Crocodile who we all hated for what he did, in Skypeia we saw Luffy trash Enel, but more importantly he rung the bell which is what the reader was hoping for. Water 7 was even more intense due to Usopp leaving and Robin's stuff, and the resolution at the end was intense. Impel Down and Marineford were always tense, so they speak for themselves.
With Fishman Island, it's just really difficult for the reader to have as much emotional attachment as easily as you could in previous arcs. It's not really even an end of the world scenario since even if Hody managed to beat the Straw Hats we know he would be stopped in like two seconds by any of the admirals. Unlike the other villains, he was never really a threat. And since Fishman Island arc was teased for so long, I'm sure a lot of readers were expecting some bigger climax or some bigger more meaningful events to go down. Not to say that Fishman Island wasn't meaningful, but it's a lot more like Thriller Bark when you compare it to the likes of Water 7/Marineford/Impel Down.
Fishman Island is the first major arc after the straw hat reunion, and it was their destination for so long, that I'm guessing a lot of people expected it to just be more intense or something. It's by no means a bad arc, but instead served to showcase the rise in power, to solve plot threads that really needed to be solved (human-fishman relations, who the hell fisher tiger was, etc), and grab a new fishman crew member on the way (maybe).
Can someone please give me a legitimate reason why this arc is passable
Arguments that don't count on their own:
Hody is weak
Fishman Island is not New World
Hype
Flashback was placed at a crucial moment (fixed when reading without time constraints)I have my peeves with some of the stuff here….but its nothing that every other arc got perfect. I see no reason for hating the arc aside from the reasons listed above that are hardly problems with the arc itself
The fight against the fishman pirates was pretty unengaging in my opinion. I'm not saying that the SH should have problems against them in a straight up fight, but that's exactly the case. Why not showcase fights where there are several handicaps(which shouldn't be hard considering the terrain they were fighting in) placed upon any of the SHs. Also why introduce the E.S. if they didn't end up having an effect and the NFP get rofl stomped in any case(again not saying the shs should have been beaten up like in EL but they should have been put in a similar difficult situation like in the davy back fight).
Then there is the huge power disparity between fishman. It's a little sad to see that Jinbe is pretty much the strongest fishmen without peer.
It's not a big deal per se, but it's one of the little things that adds up.
Also the Luffy Jinbe quarrel struck me always a little bit weird. It never seemed to make a lot of sense but I guess that's what makes Luffy, Luffy.
Very weird pacing. The most prominent display of this was the all finishing moves chapter.
All in all it rather felt like this arc was somewhat a cleaner for the mess that the timeskip left behind.
That said there were also a lot of thing that I enjoyed like the theme this arc represented.
And the villains had rather amusing quirks this time around.
After all that emotional shit we've been through since Saboady? I'm actually kind of glad we had a breather arc for once, where things didn't get so out of hand. I like how, maybe (mayyyybe) 2 years ago these guys might have been more worthy adversaries, but not now. Though I do agree, I was expecting to see all the New Fishman Pirates get Energy Steroid transformations. Also, since Fishmen aren't really that prominent besides anyone who ever belonged to the Sun Pirates, the power disparity thing kind of made sense, considering Fishmen are a billion meters underwater just kind of minding their own business.
The Luffy Jinbe quarrel was weird to me until I understood what it was all about. Jinbei felt if a human were to defeat Jones, it would just continue the cycle of revenge of humans persecuting fishmen, but Jinbe was just opposed to Luffy beating up Hody without the support of the citizens of Fishman Island. If Luffy could beat Hordy looking like a hero to fishmen, and not like a dominating human (the kind with which the island has plenty of experience), then Jinbe has no problems whatsoever. So that kind of put the quarrel in context and made it make a bit more sense. It was just Jinbe telling Luffy to calm down and not rush into things as usual. Needless to say that's pretty much what happened. And yeah, considering they aren't technically in the New World yet, I'd say FI arc (or, show me ya moves! arc) did admirably as a cleaner arc.
After all that emotional shit we've been through since Saboady? I'm actually kind of glad we had a breather arc for once, where things didn't get so out of hand. I like how, maybe (mayyyybe) 2 years ago these guys might have been more worthy adversaries, but not now. Though I do agree, I was expecting to see all the New Fishman Pirates get Energy Steroid transformations. Also, since Fishmen aren't really that prominent besides anyone who ever belonged to the Sun Pirates, the power disparity thing kind of made sense, considering Fishmen are a billion meters underwater just kind of minding their own business.
The Luffy Jinbe quarrel was weird to me until I understood what it was all about. Jinbei felt if a human were to defeat Jones, it would just continue the cycle of revenge of humans persecuting fishmen, but Jinbe was just opposed to Luffy beating up Hody without the support of the citizens of Fishman Island. If Luffy could beat Hordy looking like a hero to fishmen, and not like a dominating human (the kind with which the island has plenty of experience), then Jinbe has no problems whatsoever. So that kind of put the quarrel in context and made it make a bit more sense. It was just Jinbe telling Luffy to calm down and not rush into things as usual. Needless to say that's pretty much what happened. And yeah, considering they aren't technically in the New World yet, I'd say FI arc (or, show me ya moves! arc) did admirably as a cleaner arc.
Don't get me wrong I understood what the quarrel was about, what didn't make sense to me was luffy not taking 2 seconds listening to jinbe and instead wasting time and energy fighting him.
But like I said I guess that what makes him the luffy we know.
whoops my bad. i guess after losing em once luffy really doesnt wanna lose any of his crew again
I wouldn't necessarily say this was a breather arc. In fact this continues the emotional stuff from Saboady, just not the CREW'S emotions. It continued the tension of Fishman and humans from Saboady that had been built on. People have been hating on this arc, and while I don't, I am a bit disappointed because I expected it to be more of an adventure arc when we found out at the end of EL, that we were going to Fishman Island. After getting to Saboady and understanding that this would directly deal with the racial tension, I understood that.
Hopefully we'll get a classic One Piece adventure arc in the New World soon.
I wouldn't necessarily say this was a breather arc. In fact this continues the emotional stuff from Saboady, just not the CREW'S emotions. It continued the tension of Fishman and humans from Saboady that had been built on. People have been hating on this arc, and while I don't, I am a bit disappointed because I expected it to be more of an adventure arc when we found out at the end of EL, that we were going to Fishman Island. After getting to Saboady and understanding that this would directly deal with the racial tension, I understood that.
Hopefully we'll get a classic One Piece adventure arc in the New World soon.
I admit that I was a bit dissapointed as well. There was a lot of potential. I was expecting Sanji and Zoro to fight underwater, it would have been original.
Oda said that he is eager to draw what happened with the WG during the last two years. Coincidentally, the new HQ is right after FI. I am expecting to see who is the new fleet admiral, seeing Smoker and co, the Schibukai and Yonku reactions.
Wow, my bad. This was posted in the wrong place
I admit that I was a bit dissapointed as well. There was a lot of potential. I was expecting Sanji and Zoro to fight underwater, it would have been original.
Oda said that he is eager to draw what happened with the WG during the last two years. Coincidentally, the new HQ is right after FI. I am expecting to see who is the new fleet admiral, seeing Smoker and co, the Schibukai and Yonku reactions.
Zoro did fight underwater. And then we also saw all 3 fight the kraken underwater.
Do you really think that these fights would have been any different in water. Zoro had already owned Hody in water, and the fishman went crazy over how he moved FASTER than a fishman.
It's certainly true that hype shouldn't have anything to do with whether or not the arc on its own was good or not. I think the thing about Fishman Island is that, if you compare it to every other major arc, we see that each arc accomplishes something that the reader can get really personally involved into. In Arabasta, Luffy stopped Crocodile who we all hated for what he did, in Skypeia we saw Luffy trash Enel, but more importantly he rung the bell which is what the reader was hoping for. Water 7 was even more intense due to Usopp leaving and Robin's stuff, and the resolution at the end was intense. Impel Down and Marineford were always tense, so they speak for themselves.
With Fishman Island, it's just really difficult for the reader to have as much emotional attachment as easily as you could in previous arcs. It's not really even an end of the world scenario since even if Hody managed to beat the Straw Hats we know he would be stopped in like two seconds by any of the admirals. Unlike the other villains, he was never really a threat. And since Fishman Island arc was teased for so long, I'm sure a lot of readers were expecting some bigger climax or some bigger more meaningful events to go down. Not to say that Fishman Island wasn't meaningful, but it's a lot more like Thriller Bark when you compare it to the likes of Water 7/Marineford/Impel Down.
Fishman Island is the first major arc after the straw hat reunion, and it was their destination for so long, that I'm guessing a lot of people expected it to just be more intense or something. It's by no means a bad arc, but instead served to showcase the rise in power, to solve plot threads that really needed to be solved (human-fishman relations, who the hell fisher tiger was, etc), and grab a new fishman crew member on the way (maybe).
Now no no no, this argument that Hody would eventually get stopped is completely foolish. Everyone….except maybe Enel that the SH have fought could easily be taken down by an admiral.
I don't see why people don't connect with the discrimination. Even if you havn't to been discriminated, anyone bother to open a history book and learn about all the inhumane crap that happened to African Americans and others? It kinda makes me sad to think the general response to this would be: History is boring, who cares?
When people don't know their history, chances are it repeats itself.
What also shocks me is that people don't care about Jinbe or anyone else deeply hurt by whats happened. I mean take a moment and reflect on how Jinbe must have felt after realizing Namis torture, letting someone like Hody get as far as he did. The guy never stops doing things, and its sad because hes done so much. I feel that Jinbe hasn't experienced any real happiness in awhile. Hope his new role as a SH will change that
What finally makes me mad is "passable". You say its not bad but passable? As in a D instead of an F?
Its a good-great arc. Not everything needs to be a certain way. I feel that if anyone cares about any of these important characters and/or history, they should enjoy the arc
So Luffy is basically turning into a Roger clone…
Same Strawhat, can Hear the Voice of All things, etc. etc.
I agree with the rest when they state that I dislike it when protagonists owe their success to destiny rather than hard work.
Stupidest thing I've ever heard. why are people over-analyzing this? he's being compared to roger so what? What does this have to do with hard work? Luffy has always used hard work and if you think any less than you're just looking for things to nitpick. Who cares about being able to hear a "voice"? Seriously, how does this completely undermine everything he's done to this point?
"An adventure is only an inconvenience rightly considered. An inconvenience is only an adventure wrongly considered."
I think One Piece represents that very well. 
Stupidest thing I've ever heard. why are people over-analyzing this? he's being compared to roger so what? What does this have to do with hard work? Luffy has always used hard work and if you think any less than you're just looking for things to nitpick. Who cares about being able to hear a "voice"? Seriously, how does this completely undermine everything he's done to this point?
It doesn't undermine, its just annoying to basically have a "I did it first" signiture after every arc. This mainly started back in Skypiea, when Roger wrote on the poneglyph. Feels like the south park episode "simpsons did it"
And now recently two things quickly to him, the voice of all things and the strawhat. WHY did Roger have to have the strawhat? Why not have it just be Shank's? Shanks is a big time stud, did we really need to attribute the hat back to Roger? Luffy had enough similarities already with Roger. Why the F*ing hat.
And now this voice of all things. Why is it that its been 1,000 years since the last mermaid could talk to sea kings, and yet in 20 years we have 2 HUMANS that can hear sea kings, or ALL THINGS. We have not heard more about this power, but I recon its more rare than King's Haki.
This voice thing will prolly only be used for some big destiny revelation acknowledgement thing.He still gonna have to to kick ass and survive.Not like the ocean and nature and strong guys are gonna let Luffy pass through
@Baou:
This voice thing will prolly only be used for some big destiny revelation acknowledgement thing.He still gonna have to to kick ass and survive.Not like the ocean and nature and strong guys are gonna let Luffy pass through
This. Also, i'm willing to bet a lot of this has to do with Will of D. Except maybe the Straw hat. Isn't Luffy supposed to be "one of the men that Roger is waiting for?"
Everyone needs to stop getting their panties in a bunch and just enjoy the friggen manga already. It's probably gonna take a loooong time before all this stuff gets sorted out, so there's absolutely no sense in trying to make predictions about fate stuff or etc right now.
@Baou:
This voice thing will prolly only be used for some big destiny revelation acknowledgement thing.He still gonna have to to kick ass and survive.Not like the ocean and nature and strong guys are gonna let Luffy pass through
I'm sure the voice will be used for some plot thing, but my question is, WHY DID ROGER HAVE TO HAVE IT ALSO?
Why not someone else besides him if Oda wanted to introduce it early like he did? Why not Rayleigh, or Shanks, or hell even some random early guy like Kuro or Krieg. Why did it have to be Roger?
Its just the more and more and more and more and more and more things that Luffy has EXACTLY the same as Roger makes it seem like its not Luffy's doing but his luck in powers that lets him become pirate king.
What if this Voice of all things is what is the key to getting to Raftel? Won't that be bullshit. That means that nobody in teh entire world had a chance of even becoming pirate king except Roger and Luffy because they were just LUCKY enough to get this power.
WHY DID ROGER HAVE TO HAVE IT ALSO?
Because Roger didn't have a way to read poneglyphs besides this method. Raleigh basically said under no uncertain terms that the only reason they know the history of the void century was because they could here the "voice of all things" - thus Roger needed to have it as well. It was a necessity.
Not saying for sure that the void century/rio poneglyph is One Piece, but it seems to me the two are definitely connected somehow.
Trust me Hinscher I know where you're coming from and your fears have solid ground to them, but there's no use arguing/complaining about it now. For all of this fate stuff, Oda might brilliantly subvert it later on, or execute it in a manner that doesn't seem like he just pulled it out of his ass. You just need to calm down and give it time, and see where the story goes.
Because Roger didn't have a way to read poneglyphs besides this method. Raleigh basically said under no uncertain terms that the only reason they know the history of the void century was because they could here the "voice of all things" - thus Roger needed to have it as well. It was a necessity.
Not saying for sure that the void century/rio poneglyph is One Piece, but it seems to me the two are definitely connected somehow.
Oh you mean the poneglyphs he read, but being the dumb pirate he is and not an oharan archeologist he was unable to understand them and came to whatever conclusion they did.
Oh and what did they do with their conclusion? They retired from pirating and did NOTHING. They didn't tell anyone else about what they discovered, they didn't fight any war to do whatever.
It perfect:
Luffy's interpretation + Robin's knowledge= the true void history.
@Baou:
It perfect:
Luffy's interpretation + Robin's knowledge= the true void history.
Luffy's interpretation = A so its a mystery box
Oh you mean the poneglyphs he read, but being the dumb pirate he is and not an oharan archeologist he was unable to understand them and came to whatever conclusion they did.
Dumb pirate or not, Roger used the language - Skypeia? - he had to have some way of deciphering them. I think you're undermining Roger a bit here, but that's just my opinion. He was the KING for a reason. He was capable of many feats, otherwise he wouldn't have conquered the Grand Line.
Oh and what did they do with their conclusion? They retired from pirating and did NOTHING. They didn't tell anyone else about what they discovered, they didn't fight any war to do whatever.
You're completely right, and I believe this is where Luffy surpasses Roger in his whole theme. Luffy is all about being free and helping people, unlike Roger who was hellbent on conquering the sea. Either way, this denotes a personality difference and does not in one way or another make it more or less plausible that Roger was able to read/comprehend a voice from the poneglyphs. Has it ever occurred to you that Roger's illness may have been a cause for the lack of action? Or maybe there were extenuating circumstances that prevented them from acting? Either way, we don't know the whole story. But we do know Roger could comprehend poneglyphs. Somehow. And the closest connection we have is Rayleigh's personal statement that they could hear the "voice of all things." This seems to be what Luffy has "inherited" so to speak.
Regardless of how much this whole inheritance thing seems to suck for y'all, ultimately Luffy's actions have drawn a direct contrast to those of Roger's. Just because he's following the same path, it doesn't mean he's doing the EXACT same things. It seems to me, he's inheriting the same things as Roger, and for better or worse, helps people and lives freely along the way instead of conquering the sea like Roger did. He's almost reversing the damage Roger may or may not have done to the world with this whole Era of Pirating thing. And he's doing it along the same path as Roger, showing not only a parallel, but also a better method of reaching the same goal - The End of the Grand Line.
@Baou:
It perfect:
Luffy's interpretation + Robin's knowledge= the true void history.
I once argued against Zoro's ability of hearing the breath of all things as the same as hearing the voice of all things only because it made Robin seem less special. But after you put it that way, yeah it's really going to work! Can't wait until Luffy and Robin can talk about something serious like this! So many possibilities have just opened up when before I would appose someone else in the crew who could understand the poneglyphs.
@ Thewonderer
I agree completely. Though growing up in the age we live in now I never had to deal with any extreme prejudice, but when I read this arc I could only think of stories my grandmother and uncle told me about growing up. Up until Shaboady I don't think anyone expected FI to be so heavy on the segregation/racism issue and I for one have completely enjoyed it. It's so different than any arc before it and chances are we won't get such a real world issue in the coming arcs, at least not to this degree.
Thinking back to Otohime's drunken rage, Fukuboshi's speech, Neptune's grieving to the minister of the left, Tiger not excepting human blood, and the latest narration really touch my soul. Lame yeah I know, but it does.
@Baou:
It perfect:
Luffy's interpretation + Robin's knowledge= the true void history.
Luffy's interpretation = A so its a mystery box
So…
Robin's knowledge = true Void history - Luffy's interpretation
If Luffy's interpretation = "mystery" ≈ 0, then we can estimate that
Robin's knowledge ≈ true Void history.
As expected of the Pirate King's archaeologist. :ninja:
One day, everyone will understand that the Compass Birds are in fact the most important clue to the Void Century.
…
http://www.filesonic.com/file/4075005854/One_Piece_648.zip
Raw chapter via http://www.rawpiece.com/
Thanks, but I've already got a copy. Sagippio and I translated some confusing bits earlier in the thread. Do you suggest that I repost them for those who missed them?
One day, everyone will understand that the Compass Birds are in fact the most important clue to the Void Century.
It doesn't undermine, its just annoying to basically have a "I did it first" signiture after every arc. This mainly started back in Skypiea, when Roger wrote on the poneglyph. Feels like the south park episode "simpsons did it"
And now recently two things quickly to him, the voice of all things and the strawhat. WHY did Roger have to have the strawhat? Why not have it just be Shank's? Shanks is a big time stud, did we really need to attribute the hat back to Roger? Luffy had enough similarities already with Roger. Why the F*ing hat.
And now this voice of all things. Why is it that its been 1,000 years since the last mermaid could talk to sea kings, and yet in 20 years we have 2 HUMANS that can hear sea kings, or ALL THINGS. We have not heard more about this power, but I recon its more rare than King's Haki.
Dude I kind of agree with you but mine is more of like why Luffy, IF this ability plays a crucial role in finding One piece then its more or less assured that Luffy and only Luffy (if he is the only one who has it and is as rare as it is made out to be) which I think detracts from the story where I thought every Pirate had a chance. Saying this I am kind of worried that this MIGHT be the reason why none of the Yonkou have tried to reach Raftel. The good thing is combat wise its more or less a useless ability so at least we can take that.
Complaining and being mad about it won't help, its part of the formula of a shounen Manga, its like how most Fantasy Novels have to have a prophecy and the protagonist has powers that some powerful guy had, just role with it and hope Oda will make it interesting.
After all that emotional shit we've been through since Saboady? I'm actually kind of glad we had a breather arc for once, where things didn't get so out of hand. I like how, maybe (mayyyybe) 2 years ago these guys might have been more worthy adversaries, but not now. Though I do agree, I was expecting to see all the New Fishman Pirates get Energy Steroid transformations. Also, since Fishmen aren't really that prominent besides anyone who ever belonged to the Sun Pirates, the power disparity thing kind of made sense, considering Fishmen are a billion meters underwater just kind of minding their own business.
I've been saying this for a while now. For basically the same reasons. I think the Straw-Hats deserve a breather arc. They've been having tons of strain getting through arcs for as long as can be remembered. But I digress, let's just say the SH's are almost certainly going to have quite a bit more trouble next arc.
Anyway, Jinbei joining the crew is pretty fine with me, the only thing is I think Jinbei will refuse at first and he'll only agree later on. That is assuming this arc goes on for longer. I personally don't mind whether this arc goes on for longer or not. I'd be more or less satisfied with how the arc has been going so far, but I don't mind if Oda decides to go on for longer.
There's just one thing if Oda decides to end the arc: What happened to Caribou?
My Hero Academia is my favorite manga series right now. At least so long as the high of its greatness remains. United States of Smash.
Thanks, but I've already got a copy. Sagippio and I translated some confusing bits earlier in the thread. Do you suggest that I repost them for those who missed them?
oh sorry… i didn't follow complete thread. i saw your post way earlier asking about raw so posted. Didn't knew that we already had raw.
I'll lookup your translation. Thanks 
