Kingdom

K. Kira XXIII

I apologize for taking so long to answer.

What I want to see? Some actual tactics that offsets their own disadvantages.

Tactics were used. A simple one, but it was there. Let's revise what happened. The original plan was for it to be a push out through brute strength. Using Shin and Kyou Kai as the main forces. However, given the Shin was badly injured, they could not do that anymore.

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Kyou Kai even states that if they were to push through brute strength at this point, they would be wiped out.

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You have said it yourself But here there are none: Just blindly attack, ignore everything that the enemy is doing and hope to just break through by blind force; oh we've got encircled, how could that happen, eitherway, just trust that blindly attacking will save us.

That was the plan, but Kyou Kai changed the objective from escaping the encirclement, to wiping out the encirclement. They would not attack blindly, Kyou Kai would mark the targets to strike with her insane movement skills, hoping around while Shin and the rest would strike at those points. The repeat this simple tactic, focusing on point of interest to kill them all.

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Now, this simple tactic, is only possible because the HSU specializes on brute strength. They have: Shin and his main troops, Kyou Kai and her main troops Duke Hyou troops and the Naki Clan. These are the cream of the crop in the HSU. If Buckteeth would have been there and he had survived then yeah, but these soldiers are all about the mosh pit fight.

Okay, if its that easy, if a weakened, starving, outnumbered HSU with very diminished allied support can simply overwhelm their adversaries, why have they not done that from the beginning?

Because these were the best troops they had in a mosh pit type of fight.

I mean, I find that at least that had a tactic being used. Unlike Riboku and Ou Sen whom are supposed to specialize in strategy and be god-tier generals. One taught it's army to: "fight using instincts instead of tactics" and the other just walked forward.

Razh

You can't make preemptive counters if there's nothing to counter.

!

K. Kira XXIII

Flawless strategy.

In terms of the chapter. I have said Houken should die this arc for a while. So kill him Hara. Let that arrow fly younger bro.

Cockycent

Meaning Kyou Kai gets Kin Mou. Or will his strategy background be used to test Karyo Ten. Also, Kaine's reaction face came just in time.

Lord of Chaos

@Cockycent:

Meaning Kyou Kai gets Kin Mou. Or will his strategy background be used to test Karyo Ten. Also, Kaine's reaction face came just in time.

Don't be silly Kyoukai doesn't get to kil named generals

Cockycent

! Funniest part was that panel with just Kin Mou sweating with pure anger, knowing he couldn't avenge Keisha because Shin is in anther league. Fu Tei might actually be useful? Can't wait to see how Riboku flips this and to see who dies because of it.

blue-san

Yeah well he sent another assassin to finish someone off.

Shin? Or maybe strategist of Shin? Ousen? Ou'hon idk doesnt matter, just want Ribokou to get smashed already

Razh

https://readkingdom.com/chapter/kingdom-chapter-613/

Is it too much to ask to post a friggen chapter link before running your mouths off? How the hell am I supposed to know you're talking about a new chapter before reading a post? Especially since it's not yet out on Sense Scans where it usually is?

…Anyway, best chapter in a long while. Things are heating up! Also, that Hi Shin 2 page spread would have been so much better if combined with that later smaller panel showing Shin charging with arrows flying past him.

sabret00the

Proper link: http://sensescans.com/reader/read/kingdom/en/56/613/page/1

MiyamotoMusashi

@blue-san:

Yeah well he sent another assassin to finish someone off.

Shin? Or maybe strategist of Shin? Ousen? Ou'hon idk doesnt matter, just want Ribokou to get smashed already

That´s the problem if we are to believe that Riboku is some kind of strategic genius, yet the story does not delve too much into strategy in the first place besides general statements. In the end it always comes down to Houken or someone else´s talent and strength doing something.

Razh

Problem is, strategy is mostly boring. The results are what's interesting.

If Hara decided to introspect Ousen and/or Riboku as if they were characters in HxH, calculating, considering, reconsidering, preparing, measuring, predicting weather, counting, giving extra detailed orders etc, etc, it would turn into a shit show soon.

Not to say I don't have my complaints as how some things are simplified, but I can't ask too much of this kind of a story.

MiyamotoMusashi

Depends on the depiction, HxH lacks and credibility when characters have a 5 page monologue reflecting and strategizing about situations that are supposedly happening in a split second (especially for Killua that´s a problem that was a big turn off for me) but preparing for an actual battle beforehand and introducing a simple set of strategies the audience can follow, yet still can appreciate and actually believe someone is that what the author claims to be? Yep possible.

Ravages of Time for example does that pretty well, it has other problems but it excels in that.

Cockycent

I found out it dropped a day after it's release on Sense. If I find it a day late, then what you're saying is incorrect. Not only did you open a spoiler, you feel that I owe it to you to post a link.

Razh

@Cockycent:

I found out it dropped a day after it's release on Sense. If I find it a day late, then what you're saying is incorrect. Not only did you open a spoiler, you feel that I owe it to you to post a link.

Wasn't talking to you, didn't open a spoiler and no you don't owe me anything, but it's a matter of courtesy to fellow posters. Too much to ask?

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@MiyamotoMusashi:

Depends on the depiction, HxH lacks and credibility when characters have a 5 page monologue reflecting and strategizing about situations that are supposedly happening in a split second (especially for Killua that´s a problem that was a big turn off for me) but preparing for an actual battle beforehand and introducing a simple set of strategies the audience can follow, yet still can appreciate and actually believe someone is that what the author claims to be? Yep possible.

Ravages of Time for example does that pretty well, it has other problems but it excels in that.

That would be possible if Hara wasn't a fan of cliffhangers and cutting corners when it pleases him. Like you, I wouldn't mind more attention to technical stuff, but don't really expect that changing at this point in manga.

Btw, think the assassin Futei is either after Mouten or Ouhon. Mouten dying would let ZR overpower QL and pressure Ousen and negate the pincer. Following manga's logic, right?

As for Ouhon, maybe Riboku gambles on the fact Ousen ismore interested in himself and his own dynasty than Qin, and intends to put him out of balance when he hears of his son's death?

Don't see how Riboku would expect Futei to get to Ousen. And other central Qin figures aren't important enough that their loss would grant near certain victory to Zhao. Not to mention aren't important characters.

Since there's also a good chance Futei will end up doing the deed, it might be Akou's second in command who's the target. Akakin keeps raising death flags over him. And Bananji can still cause trouble to Qin pincer formation. I don't know…

Cockycent

@Razh:

Wasn't talking to you, didn't open a spoiler and no you don't owe me anything, but it's a matter of courtesy to fellow posters. Too much to ask?

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That would be possible if Hara wasn't a fan of cliffhangers and cutting corners when it pleases him. Like you, I wouldn't mind more attention to technical stuff, but don't really expect that changing at this point in manga.

Btw, think the assassin Futei is either after Mouten or Ouhon. Mouten dying would let ZR overpower QL and pressure Ousen and negate the pincer. Following manga's logic, right?

As for Ouhon, maybe Riboku gambles on the fact Ousen ismore interested in himself and his own dynasty than Qin, and intends to put him out of balance when he hears of his son's death?

Don't see how Riboku would expect Futei to get to Ousen. And other central Qin figures aren't important enough that their loss would grant near certain victory to Zhao. Not to mention aren't important characters.

Since there's also a good chance Futei will end up doing the deed, it might be Akou's second in command who's the target. Akakin keeps raising death flags over him. And Bananji can still cause trouble to Qin pincer formation. I don't know...

I am wrong and I apologize. I thought you were referring to me because I saw mouths. Most of the time, i'm alerted to Kingdom's release by a Twitter or Discord image, so i'm not used to posting a link. I will be mindful of that.

MiyamotoMusashi

@Razh:

Wasn't talking to you, didn't open a spoiler and no you don't owe me anything, but it's a matter of courtesy to fellow posters. Too much to ask?

–- Update From New Post Merge ---

That would be possible if Hara wasn't a fan of cliffhangers and cutting corners when it pleases him. Like you, I wouldn't mind more attention to technical stuff, but don't really expect that changing at this point in manga.

Btw, think the assassin Futei is either after Mouten or Ouhon. Mouten dying would let ZR overpower QL and pressure Ousen and negate the pincer. Following manga's logic, right?

As for Ouhon, maybe Riboku gambles on the fact Ousen ismore interested in himself and his own dynasty than Qin, and intends to put him out of balance when he hears of his son's death?

Don't see how Riboku would expect Futei to get to Ousen. And other central Qin figures aren't important enough that their loss would grant near certain victory to Zhao. Not to mention aren't important characters.

Since there's also a good chance Futei will end up doing the deed, it might be Akou's second in command who's the target. Akakin keeps raising death flags over him. And Bananji can still cause trouble to Qin pincer formation. I don't know...

I am not really expecting it to change after 600 chapters, but pointing it out should be ok, especially when it´s something so dire.

K. Kira XXIII

Riboku's master plan is to kill Shin while making everyone believe his objectives was elsewhere.

Let the arrow fly little bro. Embrace the name of your squad: Hi Shin Unit.

Cockycent

Just realized your pfp is the best character in the series

5 Ou Ki
4 Kyou Kai
3 Kan Ki
2 Tou
1 En

I'm starting to like Na Ki and A Ka Kin

Araraaa

Chapter 614 already out with title 'Pincer Attack'

http://sensescans.com/reader/read/kingdom/en/57/614/page/1

Razh

! No scouts? Oh, kk, nevermind then.

MiyamotoMusashi

@Razh:

! No scouts? Oh, kk, nevermind then.

Gotta turn brain off…

Seafarer33

! Wow. Tomato-surprise whole armies ! Whom no-one thought to keep track of ! Blind commanders ! Houken still unaccounted for, ready to teleport at the worst moment possible ! And there's even a panel where they outright say to do everything with brute force !!11!
! I am moved to tears, the asspull that can get Quin out of this tight spot will be so massive that it is sure to leave Hara's bottom shredded to pieces. Poor man won't be able to seat for a whole year after this.

Razh

Now more than ever they should keep tabs on the army that might fuck them up. Both Hi Shin and Ousen HQ.

Two best moves by genius Riboku on this battlefield were complete ass pulls that required Qin not having any scouts or advance guard.

I mean it's cool to see both sides racing against time to get to HQ and it was cool to see Bananji charging back but was there no way to make it more plausible?

MiyamotoMusashi

Riboku, the grand strategist genius…

callgirlsinbangalore

This post is deleted!

auem

Long ago this sorts of ploy was a interesting part of Kingdom's suspense. After rehashing it for umpteenth times, it now looks simply silly. I feared it for a while, but now pretty sure that Hara is losing the touch.

Razh

He's not losing the touch, just cutting corners like he always has. A fictional strategical genius can only be as genius as the author makes him. And if author hasn't devoted a significant part of his life to studying warfare, strategy, topography, tactics, mass psychology and historical battles, there will always be some holes in the writing.

blue-san

The problem is that we have way too much up close fight and way too little of bird's eye views of the strategy and happenings across the battlefield. In the previous wars that was handled better

Araraaa

Chapter is out!
http://sensescans.com/reader/read/kingdom/en/57/615/page/1

Omega_Destroyer

@auem:

Long ago this sorts of ploy was a interesting part of Kingdom's suspense. After rehashing it for umpteenth times, it now looks simply silly. I feared it for a while, but now pretty sure that Hara is losing the touch.

Agreed. It's getting harder and harder to maintain interest in this series. I don't care about Riboku's machinations anymore. And I sure as Hell don't care about that idiot, Hou Ken, yet again, showing up to kill a key character and then leaving. The series started off really interesting and is now just a slog.

Lord of Chaos

Sou'ou could be Karin long lost twin.

Nectar

Ouhon saves Ousen. Ousen takes all the credit.

kevo_koma

So guys, how worth it is the Kingdom anime? I know it has shitty cgi but is the adaptation at least good at other parts to make the bad cgi worth sitting through?

Shezar

@kevo_koma:

So guys, how worth it is the Kingdom anime? I know it has shitty cgi but is the adaptation at least good at other parts to make the bad cgi worth sitting through?

I find it to be enjoyable , the voice actors are quite good , the animation is serviceable but they censor things quite heavily sometimes .
They skip few things with Kyoukai (assassination attempt).

cryhwks

@kevo_koma:

So guys, how worth it is the Kingdom anime? I know it has shitty cgi but is the adaptation at least good at other parts to make the bad cgi worth sitting through?

Imo no. Because the fighting is an incredibly crucial part of this series, it isn't everything, but still very important. And the way it was animated makes everyone and everything move incredibly slow, and when blows are landed you feel zero impact. And with the Manga I can feel it anytime a huge blow is struck. How you can have something feel like it has weight on a stationary picture and not on a moving fluid Animation is beyond me? But at least for me that's the case.

But also they choose to basically make it seem like a Naruto or Bleach Shonen. I'd bit you'd find more blood and broken bodies in the Naruto and Bleach Anime than you do the Kingdom one. And that also adds to the weight problem I mentioned before.

I understand you can't be as graphic as the Manga, but series like Attack On Titan have found a good enough balance. It's not as graphic as the Manga but it still has enough to were it doesn't change the feel of the series.

But everyone has their own personal opinions, and likes and dislikes. Try it out, you may feel differently about it then I did?

Cockycent

I watch Vinland and get pissed off all over again at the Kingdom anime

BartArt

It's out

K. Kira XXIII

! Of course he messed him up.

Gerri

! man, I love Mouten. he's great

KageKageKing

Mouten my boy, I forgot you were even there for a moment.

Seafarer33

I'll give it to Hara, at least it's not only Quin. Both armies are just as bad as the other at keeping tabs on enemy targets : seems like everyone in Zhao had forgotten Mouten as well :ninja:

Cockycent

Someone kill Futei please

cryhwks

I'm ready for this Arc to end, I have enjoyed it for the most part, but it's just like the Dressrosa arc, it's to long. But at least Mouten is getting some action.

Razh

Well, the art was amazing in this chapter, especially with Bananji and Mouten on couple of panels.

Not much of a surprise here. Pacing is kinda off, with how they have time to talk in the climax of battle. Would have preferred shorter sentences and more movement.

MiyamotoMusashi

@Razh:

Well, the art was amazing in this chapter, especially with Bananji and Mouten on couple of panels.

Not much of a surprise here. Pacing is kinda off, with how they have time to talk in the climax of battle. Would have preferred shorter sentences and more movement.

Yep, annoyed me as well, also one of the main things why i do not like post-Yorkshin HxH.

Razh

Just takes you out of it. One chapter you have each side racing against time to get the first kill and next chapter you have them casually conversing couple meters apart. New attackers coming to aid unchecked.

Another thing that bothers me is Ousen just waiting there instead of partaking. We just saw him beheading people with his glaive last chapter. It's like he's forced into damsel in distress role just to give spotlight to Ouhon and Mouten. Surely a general like Ousen is more qualified to take on Bananji than Mouten is, especially if you take into consideration how good Ouhon is.

Araraaa

Chapter 617 is out: http://sensescans.com/reader/read/kingdom/en/57/617/page/1

Seafarer33

! So that's when the archer brothers become relevant again ? Now I'm interested. Things are speeding up at last, but it's a shame the journey up to this point was such a bore.

phoenix_fire

! Its as if Hara suddenly remembered how abysmal Tens whole performance had been the whole arc and now she suddenly is the most important part of the HSU.
! Also looks like Riboku truely has no other plan in reserve, it all depends on Ousen getting killed first. With that being rather unlikely and Kinmou (probably) getting taken out next chapter and maybe Shin being enraged enough to break through the last defensive lines, hopefully the battle is finally decided in the next two or three chapters.
! On a completely different note, damn, I am waiting the whole arc for Kaine to actually do something and shine a bit and everytime the focus shifts to her, she is just impotently crying out and being worthless in general. Maybe at least she will be the one who stops Shi Ryou (inb4 Houken teleports in and has to save her)

Purple Hermit

Unlikely for this to be decided in 2-3 chapters (unfortunately)

Ten likely to be saved by archer bros
Likely Houken confrontation with Shin
Six Great Generals era flashback of Ouki whoopin Houken for kicks
Monologue from Houken about how Shin has greater martial might than a war god
Kyoukai shows up