Nice chapter. Love the mountain tribe in action. They are so wild and so effective.
Kingdom
-
-
Would have prefered to see Denyuu unscathed.
Siege was the fastest we've seen. The Mountain tribes are specialized and effective.
-
Just curious, do you think the glaive is Shin's final weapon? What other "power ups" do you see for him as a fighter in the future?
-
Just curious, do you think the glaive is Shin's final weapon? What other "power ups" do you see for him as a fighter in the future?
Duke Hyou's shield? A glaive and a shield are pretty much what the top military officers everywhere are using.
-
Agreed on the shield. The fact that that's pretty much what the top tier is using in many cases was exactly what made me wonder about Shin's future progress as a fighter. There's room as a leader, as a character, army size, military rank etc. I just couldn't think of much in the area of him as a fighter.
-
He has Rinko's sword if he ever decides to go dual wield.
–
http://sensescans.com/reader/read/kingdom/en/47/509/page/1
! New chapter is out and I wonder what is the secret that lies in Retsubi.
-
Ah, fuck you too Riboku.
-
So, it has to be something simple, if Riboku managed to set it up in a short time. Something that makes it worthless as a supply line stronghold or really hard to defend against the homies. Oh well.
Couldn't stop looking at that wall on the second panel.
!
-
It could be something simple like the east wall being very narrow not allowing a lot of soldiers on it , if the walls are high and there are no nearby mountains to notice it it could work i guess.
-
Yeah, it doesn't even need to be something done in the last moment, now that I think about it. Reebok might have done it before all this, just in case Qin decides to start an offensive through Retsubi. He's the type of guy that would do something just in case, even if he never expected such a scenario would happen.
It's definitely something related to construction, considering Ousen noticed while overseeing Retsubi from a high point.
-
I wonder if it is something to do with the river….Don't know whether there were enough technology to divert a river back then.
I like the theory of eastern side having less footing though.It some how makes Retsubi a one way 'valve' type of system.
-
http://reader.sensescans.com/read/kingdom/en/47/510/page/1
Nice words of wisdom there, Jin…uh, I mean Ten.
One of you should get a scar or something to distinguish yourselves more.
-
That was an awesome chapter.
.
Just maybe the last part should have been left for the next chapter, it kinda distracted from the silent contemplating mood. -
http://reader.sensescans.com/read/kingdom/en/47/511/page/1
the reasons for this chapter:
1. Show the secret of retsubi
2. How dumb an idiot Shin is -
Don't understand why he needs to be that oblivious to everything. Also, his own strategist couldn't trust him enough to share the information with him for 2 straight days. That's great.
At least Kanki never fails to entertain. It's a real shame he isn't more likable.
-
Don't understand why he needs to be that oblivious to everything. Also, his own strategist couldn't trust him enough to share the information with him for 2 straight days. That's great.
At least Kanki never fails to entertain. It's a real shame he isn't more likable.
It was like "this information is only for shin, hes an idiot"… why not just let the narrator tell these things and then Kanki with the final conclusion.
Well isnt that the reason why all people like Kanki?
-
I thought the chapter was really spicy, Shin cannot be learning how to wield the glaive and be on the loop like all of them. That's why Ten is there. After this campaign we maybe see him being more tactics oriented. I imagine an alternate reality where his brother lived, the combinations they could pull.
-
@Tamiel:
I thought the chapter was really spicy, Shin cannot be learning how to wield the glaive and be on the loop like all of them. That's why Ten is there. After this campaign we maybe see him being more tactics oriented. I imagine an alternate reality where his brother lived, the combinations they could pull.
Hyou had more Intelligence/knowledge at the moment he was killed then shin has now…
-
I am not expecting Shin to stop being an idiot at this point.
We all know he is more instinct oriented just like Duke Hyou.
-
I don't understand.If they are going to ditch Retsubi totally and taking up Gyou,then what happens to the supply line?There is basically no other route(baring mountains) ….
-
They just need to take Gyou basically before Zhao forces come to retake Retsubi, after which they hold both cities and establish a supply line.
-
I am not expecting Shin to stop being an idiot at this point.
We all know he is more instinct oriented just like Duke Hyou.
Not completely disagreeing. However, his instinct should have warned him something is not right. Otherwise, what's the point of it?
He should also learn to keep his mouth shut instead of showing his ignorance.
At this point he has enough experience to know better. In this chapter he's acting like someone who got to his position with connections and became drunk with his own success.
-
Hyou had more Intelligence/knowledge at the moment he was killed then shin has now…
I would hope the Duke was pretty old.
-
I would hope the Duke was pretty old.
Hyou… his orphan brother...
Duke Hyou's Intelligence is actually under that of Shin...
-
I don't understand.If they are going to ditch Retsubi totally and taking up Gyou,then what happens to the supply line?There is basically no other route(baring mountains) ….
@Purple:
They just need to take Gyou basically before Zhao forces come to retake Retsubi, after which they hold both cities and establish a supply line.
As I understood it, they'd have to go full Leeroy Jenkins and take over Gyou before their supplies even run out.
Zhao won't be able to keep tight defense of their borders with their capital in danger and Ousen has likely already sent a report of Retsubi's weakness.
You don't need a supply line if you don't need more supplies.
-
As I understood it, they'd have to go full Leeroy Jenkins and take over Gyou before their supplies even run out.
Zhao won't be able to keep tight defense of their borders with their capital in danger and Ousen has likely already sent a report of Retsubi's weakness.
You don't need a supply line if you don't need more supplies.
http://i1.kym-cdn.com/entries/icons/original/000/022/138/reece.JPGThat's a big hyperbole,they simply don't know how long it will take to capture the capital and storage always has a limit.
They can't afford to lose Retsubi and at the same time they can't defend Retsubi by splitting the current forces between Gyou and Retsubi.I expect further reinforcement….. -
As I understood it, they'd have to go full Leeroy Jenkins and take over Gyou before their supplies even run out.
Zhao won't be able to keep tight defense of their borders with their capital in danger and Ousen has likely already sent a report of Retsubi's weakness.
You don't need a supply line if you don't need more supplies.
http://i1.kym-cdn.com/entries/icons/original/000/022/138/reece.JPGYeah, but to hold both cities you need a supply line was more my point. But other than that, yes. Just need to steamroll over Gyou, and you basically can roll out the mission accomplished banner.
-
That's a big hyperbole,they simply don't know how long it will take to capture the capital and storage always has a limit.
They can't afford to lose Retsubi and at the same time they can't defend Retsubi by splitting the current forces between Gyou and Retsubi.I expect further reinforcement…..That's why nobody thought of option number 4. It's basically a gigantic gamble and there's no turning back. If they can take Gyou in one fell swoop, Zhao will have no option but to divert some of the forces from the borders in order to protect the capital. That gives Qin a shot at taking Retsubi over again, or go for the mountains if Zhao decides to reinforce Retsubi.
And I'm not even accounting how much trouble Ordo manages to cause.
-
I would expect reinforcements to take a hold of Retsubi. Maybe Tou. Just so when they receive the Hi Shin Unit on their way back, he can see the glaive as they approach. Will Shin start using the Duke's shield after this campaign?
And to the comment about him being dumber than Hyou, the latter was ahead of his age, demonstrated while speaking with the king and the responsibility he would take, and how he managed to rally their troops. If Shin is going to demonstrate intuition akin to Duke's, then I would assume it is after such a campaign, where the top strategists are butting heads. We might even get a scene similar to what he did during the coalition war to save the Duke's troops.
-
Well, the dumber he looks at the start of the campaign, the greater his feat at the end of the campaign will be. Business as usual.
-
^Typical: "WHAT IS HE THINKING" from all top strategiests (Yontawa, Ousen and Riboku, maybe Kanki)
-
I see it also like the rest here, that Shins behaviour put a very bad taste in my mouth. Even if he hasnt any clue, he shouldnt act like an idiot.
For the supply problem: Well, I've said it from the beginning; they should have moved part of their forces into the Tai Mountains, at least in the southern ranges. That way they had their own defensive line directly above Retsubi. Because no matter how easily or hard Retsubi could be defended, the Qin still need to keep the whole line open, otherwise the Zhao could cut it just before or behind the city.
@Tamiel:
I would expect reinforcements to take a hold of Retsubi. Maybe Tou.
There is definitely no way that they have reinforcements or reserves to spare. You have three whole armies on the offensive and still need to guard the Chu border properly (this would be the absolute perfect opportunity for Chu to make a move).
-
@Tamiel:
I would expect reinforcements to take a hold of Retsubi. Maybe Tou. Just so when they receive the Hi Shin Unit on their way back, he can see the glaive as they approach. Will Shin start using the Duke's shield after this campaign?
And to the comment about him being dumber than Hyou, the latter was ahead of his age, demonstrated while speaking with the king and the responsibility he would take, and how he managed to rally their troops. If Shin is going to demonstrate intuition akin to Duke's, then I would assume it is after such a campaign, where the top strategists are butting heads. We might even get a scene similar to what he did during the coalition war to save the Duke's troops.
How many years have passed since the death of Hyou…
-
For the supply problem: Well, I've said it from the beginning; they should have moved part of their forces into the Tai Mountains, at least in the southern ranges. That way they had their own defensive line directly above Retsubi. Because no matter how easily or hard Retsubi could be defended, the Qin still need to keep the whole line open, otherwise the Zhao could cut it just before or behind the city.
There is definitely no way that they have reinforcements or reserves to spare. You have three whole armies on the offensive and still need to guard the Chu border properly (this would be the absolute perfect opportunity for Chu to make a move).
Your option of having a detachment also goes against the idea of why reinforcements are out of the picture. The needed the 200,000 troops to go towards Retsubi and then to Gyou. Your option of leaving a group on stand-by is the same idea as leaving part of their forces behind now. An option not available as seen in the latest chapter. The reason why I said Tou is because of the potential ~sentimental~ value that could be added if Shin comes back killing Houken and wielding the glaive. Not that I agree that Qin is not able to send further reinforcements.
Which now everything comes in full circle. The reinforcements could very well be Ordo. Their proficiency at mountain combat could take them quickly to Retsubi to hold. It is not entirely out of the picture because of how Ousen was trying to recruit Ordo and the landscape where Retsubi is located. This will keep the supply line open, without Qin having to commit further troops.
How many years have passed since the death of Hyou…
Not enough, Shin demonstrated a similar rallying capacity to that of we saw with Hyou just last battle against Keisha. If Shin becomes a general and is still acting as such, then I would also be surprised. For now, I think it all is building up nicely towards his progress.
Also Shin quick progression among the ranks is probably what has prevented him from growing in that capacity. With each campaign he is tasked not only to grow stronger himself, but manage his troops and training.
I would understand this complaint better if it was directed at Ten if she had a similar reaction. However, she is proving to be quite a gifted tactician.
-
^
Lol Ordo,wasn't he attacking Zhao also?He is going to get his ass whipped…. -
^That is exactly the point, is he going to become fodder, or be another one of Ousen's instruments. Considering the latter is amassing troops. Ordo could be his own mountain tribe toops. On that note, Ousen has also been able to see Yontawa's forces in action, I wonder if he is being built up as a future antagonist.
-
@Tamiel:
Which now everything comes in full circle. The reinforcements could very well be Ordo. Their proficiency at mountain combat could take them quickly to Retsubi to hold. It is not entirely out of the picture because of how Ousen was trying to recruit Ordo and the landscape where Retsubi is located. This will keep the supply line open, without Qin having to commit further troops.
Man, to think I was mentioning Ordo and him being a more then an unwilling ally in this hasn't ocurred to me.
I can definitely see Ordo offering help or helping on his own to help destabilize Zhao.
Since he failed the last time we saw him, although it wasn't even much of a failure, he's bound to have a better record this time around.
-
@Tamiel:
Your option of having a detachment also goes against the idea of why reinforcements are out of the picture. The needed the 200,000 troops to go towards Retsubi and then to Gyou. Your option of leaving a group on stand-by is the same idea as leaving part of their forces behind now. An option not available as seen in the latest chapter.
But they need to secure their flanks and their back either way in some form. And throwing multiple hundreds of thousands of soldiers on a single city doesnt seem realistic either.
In an ideal case they would have one army conduct the siege; one army secures the siege against outside attack and the third army secures the supply and communication lines. With the three independent units acting as tactical reserve for emergencies.
Well, we will see in the next weeks how the Siege of Gyou plays out
-
^You said it best in, the ideal scenario. That was the plan Qin took so long to come up with, however the weakness in Retsubi was something that you could only realize once you were there. Hence, that ideal scenario you mention, which was most likely the plan Qin had, is now out the door. However, if 200,000 troops take Gyou and then establish a much stronger fort than they could at Retsubi, while consuming the supply from Gyou and then the independent troops and maybe elite members of Ousen, Yontawa and Kanki's army are sent with them, while the three generals stay in Gyou. Forcing a similar scenario when they fought the rebellion back when Shin met the king. Go for the king, and force the army to surrender.
-
^
Lol Ordo,wasn't he attacking Zhao also?He is going to get his ass whipped….considering that the guy ordo was going for lived in the city ordo was attacking…I figured he might have tried to set up a truce
Also just caught up today love this series
-
@Tamiel:
That was the plan Qin took so long to come up with, however the weakness in Retsubi was something that you could only realize once you were there. Hence, that ideal scenario you mention, which was most likely the plan Qin had, is now out the door..
And that is exactly what I dont see: Its a supply LINE, not a single point. No matter if one town is strongly or badly fortified, its still a single town and the Qin campaign needs to keep the whole line open, so its back to my original point: If some troops have to secure that line, they couldnt just sit in Retsubi alone -even if it was impregnable-, because then the Zhao just isolate Retsubi in another location. So if they want to keep that choke point between Tai Mountains and Yangze open, going into and holding the mountain range would be preferable.
-
@Long:
considering that the guy ordo was going for lived in the city ordo was attacking…I figured he might have tried to set up a truce
Also just caught up today love this series
! That guy is not your average general.
-
And that is exactly what I dont see: Its a supply LINE, not a single point
And you will not see a supply LINE. EVER, it was impossible to establish from Qin's standpoint at the beginning of the campaign. Let's go back, when they were making the plan to attack Zhao.
From what I understand from these 200,000 men you wanted a unit to go to lay low by the Taikou Mountain Range, that way they could have two defense points. Where did you think they could set a fort in the Mountain Range?. Not only it is Zhao's territory, this page explains it best.
[hide][/hide]
There are city's close enough to the river to send units to try and slow down the army. As we saw before they got to Retsubi. You got to remember, Zhao had spies everywhere, that's why they had to pretend to be marching towards Kokuyou and change direction in the middle of the night. Then march as close as they could to the river. Re-read chapter 497, I just did and it gives a really good description of what is to come. This is the reality, there was never any possible way to establish and keep a supply line, even if Retsubi could hold.
[hide][/hide]
. No matter if one town is strongly or badly fortified, its still a single town and the Qin campaign needs to keep the whole line open, so its back to my original point: If some troops have to secure that line, they couldnt just sit in Retsubi alone -even if it was impregnable-, because then the Zhao just isolate Retsubi in another location.
Retsubi at the end of the day was just a pit stop. Gyou is the second largest city after the capital. So even as a supply point, and considering the armies losing a bit more men. The city could very well hold enough provisions. Gyou is only two days away marching from Kantan the capital and that is crucial. When other states hear of Qin's crazy tactics(Ordo is not a coincidence), especially that those tactics got them 2 days away from Kantan they are sure to mobilize forces towards Zhao. Why? Because Zhao will have no other option than to recapture Gyou and keep it under siege. They cannot allow more than 100,000 men attack the capital.
Here is why the three independent units are important. When the combined army takes Gyou, they can leave Ousen and Kanki in charge of the protection of Gyou, while Yontawa's army (that proved to take Retsubi in less than a day) or a unit of it along with the independent units charge quickly towards Kantan. Because it is impossible to establish a supply line, they have to do something even crazier, capture the king of Zhao and demand the armies to surrender. Of course, if they task the conquest of Kantan to only the three independent units, then with their success they will all become generals. without a shred of a doubt.
So if they want to keep that choke point between Tai Mountains and Yangze open, going into and holding the mountain range would be preferable.
This is even crazier than attacking Gyou.
-
Surprise, surprise. Kanki was right.
http://reader.sensescans.com/read/kingdom/en/47/512/page/1 -
Ousen is such a madman,and Riboku will regret his decision, its clearly hinting Ousen will troll again.
-
Akou…
will that be an issue?
badasskinda like when the higher ups in the armys of Great General are shown...
-
He really is a madman, lol.
It's funny how Riboku believes someone will actually be defending Retsubi.
-
He really is a madman, lol.
It's funny how Riboku believes someone will actually be defending Retsubi.
What i dont really get is why he is still in the mountains? Was he perhaps thinking Ouswn would retreat and he then could attack him?
-
My my Ousen, way to set up the scene. Even though I said all that about the young commanders doing something grand, I will reserve some of my chips, in case this turns out into a Zhao victory, if that is the case, realistically, whom do you all imagine kicking the bucket?
-
No Riboku just wants to recaputre retsubi with the general to close the exit… he is planning on encircling and killing