Toriko II: Ichiryuu's Slimy Insides!!

[IgorGB]

@Stevenh1990:

^ You mean this http://narutoworldbrazil.blogspot.com.br/2013/03/jump-versus-entrevista-de-masashi.html

Judging by the questions alone, only the first one (the introduction) is repeated. It's actually a continuation.

The questions in the volume version are:
1 - the same
2 - what manga influenced you
3 - a big pinch is a big chance?
4 - how is your life with a manga serialization?
5 - after starting serialization, what was the first wall you had? (the first obstacle)
6 - can we talk about it now? the secrets behind making Toriko
7 - a message to people who want to become mangaka
8 - a message to your fans

[Nekketsu]

! Koizumi spotted.

[Galaxy 9000]

[Gizmo]

Chapter's out

http://hiwamatanoboru.com/2013/05/29/toriko-235/

–- Update From New Post Merge ---

Few things

! Misread the scan. Starjun didn't attack, that was a flashback. (what's dumb though is normally Shima does the panels in a different shade or something to indicate a flashback which wasn't done here…)
! Second is the concept of Impression. This seems incredibly ill defined. I can actually buy some of the psuedo logic here, that your impression can leave an impact, and making these intimidations a reality seems like a logical step, but what does are the "limits" to this? can anybody think up anything and make it happen to them?
! Third, I also get this is what Toriko meant by he has "no limits", but what are the limits to this? Was he actually doing this before during the offscreen fight? if so, why wasn't he strong enough then? And how much stronger does he get through this? Seriously, this is some fairy tail esque power of friendship power up to the worst degree.
! Admittedly really frustrated for personal reasons right now, but I'm not wrong in calling bullshit on this right?

[Panda Bear]

@Gizmo:

Few things

! I don't know, I'd respect a difference of opinion, but to me, it's pretty par Toriko; taking a real, honest-to-god phenomenon from reality, and then taking it to an absurd extreme as a power for the manga. Like you said yourself, the 'logic' of it holds up about as well as with any other power. As for limits, I'd say two things. First, frankly, with all that absurdity that we've been seeing in terms of 'power levels' in this past arc – hair that could eat the entire planet, for example? -- I really wouldn't be too worried about something being too limitless in its power. That aside, though, I thought it was pretty clear what the limits to it are. For one, because your imagination basically makes it reality, it really does end up taking a huge amount of energy as a toll, so there's that factor, as always. More importantly, though, it seems to be entirely based on one's ability to focus, and believe in themselves, and all that stereotypical rot. Considering just the past chapter was all about how Toriko can only really fight to his full extent when he has Komatsu there to protect, I think that fits pretty well with why he wouldn't have used -- wouldn't even have been able to use -- this ability prior to now.

[BoomerKoala]

First power of i will proteccttt, now power of belieeevvveee itttt.
If only these things can happen in real life… I'd eat a ton and I belieeeevvvve it'll all be okay.
In all seriousness

! This 'power up' does seem ridiculous and bull at first. But when I think about it, so does running a triathlon 5 times and consuming 200000 cals for one punch. Classic toriko to inflate small, almost unnoticeable little things from reality into 'wtf-is-this-lol' power ups.
The thing where we'd get affected by other people's mood (irritation, happiness etc) is pretty legit, and so does the word-impression thing. From my culture, words (if repeated enough) is believed to come true sooner or later. So yeah, slow exposition chapter. I hope next week we'll get the beat down everyone's been looking forward to

[Señor Snake]

The explanation felt really half-assed compared to the ones given for Food Honor and Appetite Energy

[Gizmo]

@Panda:

! I don't know, I'd respect a difference of opinion, but to me, it's pretty par Toriko; taking a real, honest-to-god phenomenon from reality, and then taking it to an absurd extreme as a power for the manga. Like you said yourself, the 'logic' of it holds up about as well as with any other power. As for limits, I'd say two things. First, frankly, with all that absurdity that we've been seeing in terms of 'power levels' in this past arc – hair that could eat the entire planet, for example? -- I really wouldn't be too worried about something being too limitless in its power. That aside, though, I thought it was pretty clear what the limits to it are. For one, because your imagination basically makes it reality, it really does end up taking a huge amount of energy as a toll, so there's that factor, as always. More importantly, though, it seems to be entirely based on one's ability to focus, and believe in themselves, and all that stereotypical rot. Considering just the past chapter was all about how Toriko can only really fight to his full extent when he has Komatsu there to protect, I think that fits pretty well with why he wouldn't have used -- wouldn't even have been able to use -- this ability prior to now.

! I reread it more slowly. I'm guessing that the intimidation has to be within the bounds of your actual abilities, cause otherwise, couldn't you just imagine you'd do something horrendous and make that image a reality? That seems moot since in the end it really is just an intimidation. But if it's based on self confidence than it does have to be dependent on your actual abilities.
! Like can you imagine if someone like Claire from Baccano had this ability? Or Enel from One Piece? They'd be even more broken than before.
! But you are right in that he's more resolute after hearing Komatsu's cries hence why he's stronger now. Maybe jumping the gun too quickly. Will give it a read later during a calmer mind and try to better understand this chapter.

[Pink-Ranger]

Chapter posted above spoiler below:

Toriko went from not wearing vest to wearing it, it was enough to give away that it was memory. The limit seems to be energy and not just mental focus, but this is the limit to the amount of times you can do it, the limit to the actual power probably lies somewhere in G-cells. If they are conscious, they should be able to interact, or else all of these super natural ability to sense threat and intimidate without doing anything would not make any sense. For now I think the limit is the strength of G-cells, so if a person has both strong mental power and has eaten tons of good food, they should be powerful.

This will also help cement why these old people are extremely powerful, both their cells and their mental powers are on higher level and they don't depend on age or physical condition. Food pressure and food honor make sense for good and bad guys, but shouldn't even Starjun have this power? Also why was Toriko taught a pseudo intimidation by specific character, it seems everyone should have it.

edit: Oh and you actually have to believe it, so it's both good g-cells and tons of energy and then you need to be convinced, which is a nice mechanism against someone being hypnotized into becoming the strongest.

I think overall it's a shity concept if overused, I mean if it's like intimidation it's nice, but if overused we will have bunch of genjutsu battles. But based on Torikos last attack it seems he uses it as diversion because the other person gets some time to dodge and then he moves in, so it can really work out as throwing stars do in naruto, useless but nice combat mechanism.

[projectelf]

Does that mean that Joa/the guy who almost killed Teppei was also using this Routine?

[Porcelainpot]

Huh. Looks like I'm the only one who liked this chapter. I think the explanation was pretty well done, and the entire concept explains lots of other things like intimidation and the friendship power-up of two chapters back quite nicely. I admit this was ill-placed, and this could potentially be done badly if Shima either uses it this once and never mentions it again, or makes it a common practice beyond intimidation, but for now, I personally think it's a good chapter.

[black-leg jex]

so it's basically all just the placebo effect. That makes it much easier to understand cause at first i had no clue what he was getting at

[Area51]

@projectelf:

Does that mean that Joa/the guy who almost killed Teppei was also using this Routine?

Maybe not. Teppei's scar grew larger, something really happened to him. That wasn't just "intimidation" or this routine (call it as you want). Instead it must be the same Setsuno used to scare to death the scum beasts that were trying to kill her.

I like the chapter so much, in reality. But now I expect a ferocious counterattack by Starjun.

[phoenix_fire]

Can we please go back to random bishokukai-IGO/allies-NEO fights? Or the grinpatch-coco fight? Please?

[Aru]

Funny how people seem to read Toriko for years now and still have problems with power levels or weird explanations and ask for MOAR FIGHTEZ.

I liked this chapter. It's a quite original way to add the placebo effect to Toriko's abilities. We had a fantasy book series in Poland called "Achaja" where the main female hero also aquired these abilitied and it helped her cool down or warm up her body at some times.
Of course here we get an extreme version. I think the "logic" here is that you can't imagine something beyond your abilities, it eats a lot of calories and you have to concentrate on this. So maybe this was Toriko's problem during the fight? He couldn't concentrate and that's why he just started slowly getting into it?

[KageKageKing]

Damn, what a weed was this chapter.

[TLC]

A chapter that was 90% infodump on a convoluted explanation that ultimately amounted to nothing more than an excessively complicated way to say "BELIEVE IN YOURSELF".

Goddamn, the pacing in this series..it's like a car in traffic. Randomly moving and stopping at random intervals.

[kanji_xiii]

Ok, so I enjoyed the chapter, but my first thoughts were "that's an interesting new direction to send the series in".

So basically this stems from something called "creative visualization" a primary technique of positive thinking. Athletes and sportsman use it to develop "muscle memory" and improve the success rate of their techniques, such as swings/kicks/throws, etc without having to perform them. Of course we're talking about it in the context that the event actually happens by just thinking it, which is mad!

It's interesting that Shima is going down a psychological route now, after focusing a lot of techniques on physiological theories. I like it, but unlike the physiological stuff that has "limits" this has now completely the blown the doors wide-open in terms of future abilities since the mind has no such limits.

Essentially we could see this used to develop techniques similar to the Bukūjutsu where the 4 Emporeres start flying around using the power of mental imaging.

I don't really want to see this happen, but the concept does open a whole world of possibilities for use outside of the ultimate routine.

Mind blowing!

[BoomerKoala]

So… Aimaru uses bacteria and viruses to fight? That is kinda cool.

[Sheep]

I'm usually really lenient when it comes to Toriko, but this was really boring, and not because it was an exposition chapter, Shima basically could have said what he wanted with half the pages he's done.
18 pages for explaining how to really believe in yourself…whatever, I guess he took his time so he can make it seem as plausible as possible, still think it's pretty damn stupid.
At least shima properly conveyed the intensity of Toriko and Aimarus dialogue, liked some of the close up shots and that part where Ai insisted that he did do the routine.

[Mortea]

Strange that Aimaru can make bacteria (living things) into viruses (basically piece of DNA in protein shell).
Other than that, Starjun seemed quite unimpressed being on a plate. Looks like he doesn't believe in Toriko winning.

[Cyclone_Baroness]

I enjoyed this chapter. I sort of feel that the Routine is probably the next step up from when we get to see their inner beasts or whatever those are when the Heavenly Kings or very strong oponents use intimdation. I didn't mind the explanation taking up the majority of the chapte, I'd rather have that out of the way instead of an exposition in the middle of the fight. Aimaru giving himself an ulcer on purpose kind of cracked me up because at first I thought he was having an Ukitake moment.

Also my only real gripe for the chapter was the transition between seeing Starjun on a plate to Toriko dissolving and skidding away in a different outfit. I had to keep going back and forth to make sure a page wasn't missing.

[Essam Ismail]

Nice chapter tho but placed wrong in a middle of a fight,

[Area51]

I really enjoyed this chapter. I like so much this kind of "psychological" explanation. And so, in my opinion, with this Shima is telling us Starjun cannot lose in any way.
But…I don't get a few things, the most important: why didn't Toriko use this kind of power before in this fight? I mean, this kind of "technique" consumes a lot of energy. But Toriko was attacking Starjun with all he got since the beginning while Starjun shruged all the times he received the strongest attack.
So it seems Toriko has this "ultimate routine" (but I think most of the strongest characters have it) but Starjun is not impressed.

[Slardar]

In my eyes it seems like Toriko somewhat intended to lose. It seems like he was waiting for Komatsu's cry for help to get him really going, then hit autophagy with food immersion on, and was saving this ultimate routine thing for that.

It's funny how Shima can come up with all these funny everyday ideas and make them into cool fighting abilities.

But considering ultimate routine, it seems that it takes a huge toll on your body's energylevel/calories, but then again it did so for Aimaru and since his diet is what it is, it might not be so exhausting for Toriko to use. Ah well, this fight might go either way now.

[Smiley]

I hope this doesn't become the genjutsu crap all over again.

[Area51]

Why GENJUTSU crap? What do you mean?

[Nekketsu]

People call everything "genjutsu" nowadays…

[Sheep]

Actually it's kind of fascinating how bitchy people became about characters having illusion based powers because of the Sharingan
I mean jesus, one series does it poorly, and now it suddenly became unacceptable for every series, what the hell
The same thing with revenge based characters always having somone reminding people that Sasuke exists, stop that shit

[Pink-Ranger]

The only comparison is that it's not limited to one or two characters, some do it well and it works because one of the main guys gets the power of illusion and uses it to manipulate people. And if I recall correctly noone liked that Teppei crap (which seems to be connected to this power), if it's use is limited and we know it's illusion then it can work. In the last chapter it was revealed on the next page, not 10 pages later as when it comes to the genjutsu.

[Area51]

Guys, if I'm correct this technique only works if the enemy is a weaker fighter or a slightly stronger fighter with weaker will.
In fact Starjun was not affected by it that much.

[Mortea]

I liked that Teppei crap. I found it intriguing and not beating around the bush.

This routine thing won't fall to being genjutsu boredom. It requires an iron belief in success, so it won't work if Toriko is not confident enough. Perhaps if he won't see a reveal of stronger power from an opponent he will be able to do it, even if enemy himself is confident in being stronger than Toriko and won't fall on his knees from pressure. But if Toriko sees that opponent is stronger he won't be able to imagine his attack already being a success. It's not even intimidation, it's not for scaring and avoiding unneeded fight (maybe that's why Starjun is unimpressed by being on a plate, on contary with having his head blown off by knife). It's for an attack to be in top gear. It also shows what will happen as a part of preparation, but it's not for scaring. It's future sight. Toriko's mindset, that Grinparch commented as interesting (and author's words - that Torkio didn't feel beaten even seeing his disadvantage), might help him, but only up to a certain point.

And that's why Komatsu's presence is important. Toriko was not sure if he can beat Starjyn, that probably was holding him back. But now when Komatsu is here Toriko has to protect him and that's cemented. So he can't lose and can't see it as possibility. Losing doesn't exist right now. That's why he can see his attacks as being killer shots right now.

[Baldulf]

[Smiley]

Okay thanks to make it more clear perhaps I shoulded have worded that better.

[Area51]

Guys, speaking about Bishokukai Sous Chefs I'm moved to think Tommy was the weakest one. Why? Well, first you can compare the "pets" Capture Level of Tommy and Grinpatch when they first fought Toriko. Somehow Tommy was scared to give birth to Parasite Emperor (which had Capture Level 81) while Grinpatch tamed without any problem a Jack Elephant (Capture Level 85). Then, Tommy didn't have any sort of special attacks aside Egg Bomb, Grinpatch has his breath devastating blows. Grinpatch eats a lot, more than Toriko or Zebra, I think. Starjun is searching some kind of ingredients. Tommy is a bit careless about food (and he's a chef!).
These aren't facts, these are just speculations. But I think they could be likely.

[KageKageKing]

@Area51:

Guys, speaking about Bishokukai Sous Chefs I'm moved to think Tommy was the weakest one. Why? Well, first you can compare the "pets" Capture Level of Tommy and Grinpatch when they first fought Toriko. Somehow Tommy was scared to give birth to Parasite Emperor (which had Capture Level 81) while Grinpatch tamed without any problem a Jack Elephant (Capture Level 85). Then, Tommy didn't have any sort of special attacks aside Egg Bomb, Grinpatch has his breath devastating blows. Grinpatch eats a lot, more than Toriko or Zebra, I think. Starjun is searching some kind of ingredients. Tommy is a bit careless about food (and he's a chef!).
These aren't facts, these are just speculations. But I think they could be likely.

Tommy's arm has a capture level over 200, does this count as pet?

[Area51]

@KageKageKing:

Tommy's arm has a capture level over 200, does this count as pet?

This doesn't matter. Everyone has grown a lot, for real. Other characters grew more than Tommy.

[Skadi]

Today is Cedre´s biiiiiiirthdaaaaaaay~~~~~~ (ﾉ◕ヮ◕)ﾉ

[Area51]

By the way guys, so far which is you favourite chapter till now?
I'm not sure if mine is 171 or 172.

[Smiley]

Every chapter with livebearer.
Except when he was choped in half.

[No Maam]

I agree with TLC about the whole infodump thing, and the content did seem a bit half-assed.

If Shima wanted me to start giving a damn about Starjun, then having the part of the fight with actual fighting offscreened, and then spending two chapters on like three attacks and flashbacks to previously unseen, unhinted at "training" consisting of dialogue, well, he'd better not hold his breath.

But thanks to Kewl as always.

[Skadi]

! あとでまたくる
穴から出てきたのはグリンのみ　ココ生死不明　
マンサムは立ちあがり会長以外には負けない　ってか茂松酒もってる？と若干余裕
トリコ善戦するもスターは余裕　まだ実力を隠していた　炎の剣を出しトリコの攻撃を全部かき消す
やっと対等になったなと言う

what I understood

! Grin/Coco came outta the hole. We don´t know if the other is dead or alive. Shigematsu stopped Mansam for his sake. More Toriko vs Star

[Thdyingbreed]

Grinpatch's fight better not have been off paneled or I'm going to be annoyed.

[Nekketsu]

@Skadi:

! Shigematsu stopped Mansam for his sake.

I deserve some props!

[Gizmo]

@Nekketsu:

I deserve some props!

Actually…

! If Skadi is basing it off google translate the "sake" is actually meant to be alcohol. Skadi I'll apologize if you actually translated the spoiler and it said something about Shigematsu actually helping out Mansam though.
! Here's what Idol said about the short spoiler.
! > Anyway, the chapter is splits in 3 parts:
! > - coco & grinpatch came back from the hole.

• mansan & shigematsu's fight.
• Toriko Vs Starjun.

Seems that Toriko and starjun are at the same level, starjun will show the power of his flaming sword.

[Nekketsu]

I don't get it.

! Stopping him in order to not further damage himself makes more sense, but we'll see. What does the alcohol has to do there, I wonder.

[Gizmo]

My guess?

! Mansam used alcohol to heal his wounds and now Shigematsu and Mansam are going to fight.
! The chinese scan or a more detailed spoiler will be out in a few hours though so we'll both see.

[Area51]

I can't wait to see this!

[Nekketsu]

! That's too bad. Though it explains why Shige hasn't been seen for such a long time. Still there were pretty much no hints, though now I think it would make no sense to hit at who are the members of NEO if they are a secret organization.
! The parts about Coco and Grinpatch and Toriko and Starjun sound awesome.

[Area51]

! Instead I think the most interesting part is Shige vs.Mansam. I'm so curious about the two's real power.
Finally Starjun seems to use his sword. But if it's only this I'm going to be a little disappointed because…ok, the sword is great but Starjun uses punches too and pyrokinesis too.
Coco vs.Grinpatch...It's not that I don't wish well to Coco but I don't want each Bishokukai's member to lose their fight. And if Grinpatch will lose it's likely he'll die.