Chapter 720: Convict Gladiators
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People complained that we were judging Rebecca too fast when she first appeared, that it was not enough to show her personality and all.
Well, here she is showing to be exactly the same character everyone predicted. With characters like her we can perfectly understand everything just by landing our eyes over her 'cause she already appeared in this manga many times before under other names. In One Piece this is more of a (repeated do exhaustion) plot device than a character.And related to that, I don't want to enter the sexism argument, but… man... Oda doesn't take a break in this area, it's hard to pretend I'm not seeing it.
But it doesn't bothers me that much that all these useless crying baby characters who can't do shit on their own are women. I am more irritated by Oda always resorting to this same formula over and over again than by those characters gender... (obviously, if all the women in OP were like that, it would bother me as well).But well, let's forget about Rebecca, this chapter star was Bart. Well, I have to say I didn't expected him to be such a fungirl based on spoilers. It also caught my attention he thinks Luffy is a cruel bastard and that's the Luffy he adores. Not sure if when he finds out who Luffy really is he will turn against him or will change his ways to be compatible to his idol's... anyway, at least we know now that Bart IS a vile man as people think.
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Where did you guys see Barto loving Luffy for his apparent cruelty?
Genuine question here
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Where did you guys see Barto loving Luffy for his apparent cruelty?
Genuine question here
People assume this because barto learned about luffy's wherabouts via mainly newspapers, and the government lied about what the SH's actually did, giving them a rather cruel look.
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Wow, after having some time to contemplate about Bart's sudden change in personality and new fanboyism.
I seriously hate it. It's pretty terrible.
Who exactly is Mumbo?
It's OFFICIAL, UsoppXNami 4ever.
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@Sonic:
Wow, after having some time to contemplate about Bart's sudden change in personality and new fanboyism.
I seriously hate it. It's pretty terrible.
It's not a change, it's an aspect that was foreshadowed a few chapters ago and revealed this chapter.
Seriously, just because you don't like its bad writing? -
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Meh one less tough guy, seems like a fair trade for me
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Not one less tough guy he's still a tough mofo who cuts people's tongues & fingers he acts like an ass with everyone except with Luffy or maybe the whole stawhat crew
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Even though I was one of those hoping for Barto to be a fan of Luffy and not someone after his head, I admit I probably would be annoyed by his sudden change of character. However, since despite being such a fanboy, he doesn't call Luffy "-sama", but "-senpai", I think Oda managed to make the change not too over the top so it ended up being funny instead of forced.
By the way, anyone did a "I hope senpai notices me" edit with Bartolomeo already?
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Before I take my leave I will say one thing: No one can please everyone not even the Gods can please everyone,so just deal with it as it is.
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@.access:
By the way, anyone did a "I hope senpai notices me" edit with Bartolomeo already?
here..
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Wait, isn't that how it works?
No, For example I can hate Luffy's love of meat If I were a vegan, that doesn't give me the right to call it bad writting. I just wish people would be more objective than saying stuff like, "This gag doesn't seem funny to me, it's terrible!".
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@.access:
By the way, anyone did a "I hope senpai notices me" edit with Bartolomeo already?
This count?
[hide]
[/hide]EDIT: Ninja'd
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@Sonic:
Wow, after having some time to contemplate about Bart's sudden change in personality and new fanboyism.
I seriously hate it. It's pretty terrible.
for me its the opposite..i was pretty disappointed when a read the chaoter,but now it doesn't bother me that mucuch..as long as it doesn't become an overused routine like hancock's behaviour every time she is around Luffy
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Yup, that's what I was talking about.
Before I take my leave I will say one thing: No one can please everyone not even the Gods can please everyone,so just deal with it as it is.
Bubble wrap can. Just so you know.
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here..
That hair style really work with his "sudden change", i can't imagine if he does that with Akainu's hair style
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No, For example I can hate Luffy's love of meat If I were a vegan, that doesn't give me the right to call it bad writting. I just wish people would be more objective than saying stuff like, "This gag doesn't seem funny to me, it's terrible!".
If only sarcasm were easier to convey on the Internet… sigh
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Bart somehow reminds me of Carribiou. they both share a really sadistic personality.
And that Guy who badmouthed luffy about failing to save ace really had it coming.
I mean bart cut off his tongue. that scum kinda deserved it. -
@Sonic:
Wow, after having some time to contemplate about Bart's sudden change in personality and new fanboyism.
I seriously hate it. It's pretty terrible.
His fanboyism helped him develop into what he is today, it's part of him. It's like people who hate peas but love pea soup. Dafuq?
When the heart of fire strikes the hearth of stone, will you leave your life? Will you leave your home? Will you take the darkest road?
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http://readms.com/r/one_piece/720/2041/7
the Doerena kingdom is being foreshadowed humm…
That being said i liked the chapter i hope next chapter we will get a big flashback about the story of Dressrosa
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I'm still playing catch up to the thread so I'll just hit on the topics that ive come across thus far:
Rebecca looks like Nami- Yes, no denying this one. What was worth discussing was "why does Oda repeatedly draw similar females?"
Now im no psychologist but I think the explanation is a simple one, when Oda designs a female he likely first decides if she'll be an attractive or unattractive character then if he decides to draw her as attractive he then draws her as what he'd consider to be attractive or even ideally so.
His art style is relatively constant as is his opinion of what's attractive so the result is a lot of females with similar faces, hour glass figures, big boobs and flat butts lol. Of all his "attractive" female characters only really Madame Shyarly, Hancock and Robin seem least cloned looking imo (though ironically robin is becoming Hancock post ts). Each has a feature that makes them slightly exotic, Shyarly has her eye design and bang, Hancock has her forehead and bangs, Robin had her nose. If Oda would just consistently add some exotic variation females wouldnt look so cookie cutter.
More importantly Rebecca being a pink haired Nami pretty much killed any remote possibility of her joining in my eyes, many initially said her limited personality from jump and I agree but Jimbei was a work in progress as well so I don't think first impression of quirkiness Is a deciding factor anymore. As of right now she's giving off arc main character vibes but not main recurring character vibes.
Not going too in depth but … Sexism- the scene itself none at all (though the way she was pinned down will be doujinned to hell and back), possible sexism in the setup? Yeah probably. The whole scene seems to be the moment where Luffy has a fire lit under his ass and is given a reason to fight the arc villain. Being the protagonist means that it'll likely be Luffy taking down DD and based on track record I don't see even the Luffy Law tag team happening either. Unfortunately for Rebecca this pretty much null and voids her tearful declaration.
So in terms of setup she may be headed towards damsel in distress and I know it doesn't make it right but we're talking about one of the oldest recurring themes/tropes in human storytelling realistically its probably not going anywhere so if anything I'd fault Oda more for being predictable with his setup than bringing up sexism when there probably are bigger fish to fry with regards to that issue. Atleast in terms in character motivation Rebecca is trying to solve her own problems.
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If only sarcasm were easier to convey on the Internet… sigh
Try with Comic Sans. It works sometimes.
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I'm still playing catch up to the thread so I'll just hit on the topics that ive come across thus far:
Rebecca looks like Nami- Yes, no denying this one. What was worth discussing was "why does Oda repeatedly draw similar females?"
Now im no psychologist but I think the explanation is a simple one, when Oda designs a female he likely first decides if she'll be an attractive or unattractive character then if he decides to draw her as attractive he then draws her as what he'd consider to be attractive or even ideally so.
His art style is relatively constant as is his opinion of what's attractive so the result is a lot of females with similar faces, hour glass figures, big boobs and flat butts lol. Of all his "attractive" female characters only really Madame Shyarly, Hancock and Robin seem least cloned looking imo (though ironically robin is becoming Hancock post ts). Each has a feature that makes them slightly exotic, Shyarly has her eye design and bang, Hancock has her forehead and bangs, Robin had her nose. If Oda would just consistently add some exotic variation females wouldnt look so cookie cutter.
More importantly Rebecca being a pink haired Nami pretty much killed any remote possibility of her joining in my eyes, many initially said her limited personality from jump and I agree but Jimbei was a work in progress as well so I don't think first impression of quirkiness Is a deciding factor anymore. As of right now she's giving off arc main character vibes but not main recurring character vibes.
Not going too in depth but … Sexism- the scene itself none at all (though the way she was pinned down will be doujinned to hell and back), possible sexism in the setup? Yeah probably. The whole scene seems to be the moment where Luffy has a fire lit under his ass and is given a reason to fight the arc villain. Being the protagonist means that it'll likely be Luffy taking down DD and based on track record I don't see even the Luffy Law tag team happening either. Unfortunately for Rebecca this pretty much null and voids her tearful declaration.
So in terms of setup she may be headed towards damsel in distress and I know it doesn't make it right but we're talking about one of the oldest recurring themes/tropes in human storytelling realistically its probably not going anywhere so if anything I'd fault Oda more for being predictable with his setup than bringing up sexism when there probably are bigger fish to fry with regards to that issue. Atleast in terms in character motivation Rebecca is trying to solve her own problems.
Can you at least give the images for comparison, the characters that you think Oda's draw them the same (except Mozu & Kiwi isn't count). Because i can't see where's these looks like/exact copy/similar come from.
And can you tell me what's wrong using sexism in this arc? because i don't really get the Rebecca's argument in this thread. -
Can you at least give the images for comparison, the characters that you think Oda's draw them the same (except Mozu & Kiwi isn't count). Because i can't see where's these looks like/exact copy/similar come from.
And can you tell me what's wrong using sexism in this arc? because i don't really get the Rebecca's argument in this thread.I might make a post later comparing pictures but for right now I'll just say look at Robin in recent chapters compared to Hancock and then look at alabasta, skypeia, W7 robin. The scene where Rebecca first removes her helmet looks so much like Nami that I find it hard to believe that Oda could've drawn it with a straight face.
The whole sexism issue is that Rebecca is going to fail in trying to take down Doflamingo then need Luffy to help her thus relegating her to a damsel in distress.
–- Update From New Post Merge ---
Am I the only one who enjoyed the barto stuff but also found it incredibly cringe worthy? Lol
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I might make a post later comparing pictures but for right now I'll just say look at Robin in recent chapters compared to Hancock and then look at alabasta, skypeia, W7 robin. The scene where Rebecca first removes her helmet looks so much like Nami that I find it hard to believe that Oda could've drawn it with a straight face.
Maybe it's better with pictures.
The whole sexism issue is that Rebecca is going to fail in trying to take down Doflamingo then need Luffy to help her thus relegating her to a damsel in distress.
Seems like another "Rebecca should be a yonkou/admiral level, at least at shicibukai level" to me. :ninja:
But from what i read, it's not only Rebecca. Didn't they already fail before? That's why they end up in jail being prisoner gladiator.
If Rebecca going to relegate to a damsel in distress because she's still trying is sexism, what issue should i address for a group of hopeless/dispirited men? -
Seems like another "Rebecca should be a yonkou/admiral level, at least at shicibukai level" to me. :ninja:
But from what i read, it's not only Rebecca. Didn't they already fail before? That's why they end up in jail being prisoner gladiator.
If Rebecca going to relegate to a damsel in distress because she's still trying is sexism, what issue should i address for a group of hopeless/dispirited men?The fact that Luffy is the most prolific savior character since Tintin.
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I don't get the whole sexism debate at all. It seems to me that only people who haven't read other mangas aside from One Piece, WSJ-stuff, would raise such claims Oda would be a sexist.
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The fact that Luffy is the most prolific savior character since Tintin.
I guess i'm Garp for that …
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I'm probably the only who hated all that fanboy thing. Come on. Bartolomeo first appears as one of the most badass character of the recent times and now he turns into a "Belieber"? Hancock 2.0?
I would understand if he admires Luffy's trajectory or what he represents for the New Generation and wants to make his own justice by getting the Mera Mera no Mi and delivering it to Luffy.
I feel like the character I liked got completely destroyed and will be rebuild for now on. I'm waiting for how Oda will develop him.
Also, Rebecca flashback's everywhere, what means: next nakama discussion everywhere. Shit. Chinjao and his grandons are under Luffy control. Fuck yeah. I'm seeing our Strawhat as a new Shirohige, if you guys allow me the comparison. Bellamy will surely join them too, just like Cavendish and the other hyped ones.
The plots are really getting close, which is a good thing.But…. but... BUT... the really interesting thing in this chapter is the relation between Blackbeard and Aokiji. Can't wait to see what they're planning, but for sure has something involving Akainu and the fact he's the "new" Fleet Admiral. Maybe Aokiji offered a help to destroy the Marine HQ and BB crew doesn't know if they can trust him? Too much obvious to be true. Anyway, I'm really curious about that.
Next chapter I hope to see/know what happened with Law. I remember how fucking mad I got when the fight between BB and Ace wasn't fully showed.
Sorry about grammar.
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I don't get the whole sexism debate at all. It seems to me that only people who haven't read other mangas aside from One Piece, WSJ-stuff, would raise such claims Oda would be a sexist.
So because Fairy Tail is worse, One Piece is somehow exempt from criticism.
And there are criticisms to make outside of sexism, mind you.
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I still don't get the hate about bart. I mean he's still the same character. sadistic evil maniac. But has another fangirly side to him.
He's like a sadistic version of Duval.So basically
Sanji Has Duval
Luffy has Bart.
Zoro needs one too…. -
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I still don't get the hate about bart. I mean he's still the same character. sadistic evil maniac. But has another fangirly side to him.
He's like a sadistic version of Duval.So basically
Sanji Has Duval
Luffy has Bart.
Zoro needs one too….Waido is gonna be an arc eventually. There's got to be at least one Samurai who thinks three sword style is the bomb…Duval and Barto are ex-Mafia so...a Yakuza maybe?:ninja:
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I still don't get the hate about bart. I mean he's still the same character. sadistic evil maniac. But has another fangirly side to him.
He's like a sadistic version of Duval.So basically
Sanji Has Duval
Luffy has Bart.
Zoro needs one too….Johnny and Yosaku?
edit: ninja'd :ninja:
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yeah but those guys aren't really fanboy types. more like zoro was their Idol, not in a fanboy way. as in if zoro acted more like franky with those guys, he'd have his own Zoro-house.
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Luffy already have Hancock, which represents a lot more than Bart.
Bartolomeo was supposed to be the evil, selfish and badass character whom would join SH to destroy DoFlamingo just for the lulz.
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@Kyoji:
Luffy already have Hancock, which represents a lot more than Bart.
Bartolomeo was supposed to be the evil, selfish and badass character whom would join SH to destroy DoFlamingo just for the lulz.
Bartolomeo represents something totally different from Hancock.
He was always supposed to be a fanboy, why do you think so many people predicted/anticipated this development?
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Good one he even has a poster of his bounty and his Bathroom
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So because Fairy Tail is worse, One Piece is somehow exempt from criticism.
That is my point. By the way, Fairy Tail is nothing in comparison with other mangas and I think you have a different understanding of sexism than I have. Just watch Legend of galactic heroes for example and you will see what real sexism is about. Japan is a little bit more sexist and xenophobic than most of the western countries. That is a given fact. In my opinion One Piece contains no sexism at all
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Watch old croatian TV series called "Beggars and children" if you wish to learn about sexism
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If Lucy was a girl and Beck was a guy nobody would be complaining about OP being sexist against guys.
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Not going too in depth but … Sexism- the scene itself none at all (though the way she was pinned down will be doujinned to hell and back), possible sexism in the setup? Yeah probably. The whole scene seems to be the moment where Luffy has a fire lit under his ass and is given a reason to fight the arc villain. Being the protagonist means that it'll likely be Luffy taking down DD and based on track record I don't see even the Luffy Law tag team happening either. Unfortunately for Rebecca this pretty much null and voids her tearful declaration.
^ This. The actual moment is fine, it's just that it's gonna lead to an unfavorable outcome. I hope she at least fights a Donquixote crew memeber one-on-one or saves a straw-hat or major Dressrosa character. I don't get into what's sexist and what's not but this is still an issue even without gender.
We all know this is what's gonna set Luffy against Doflamingo. But, that shouldn't happen. What message does that say? It'd be better if Law did it. I'm not just fanboying or trying to start a massive flame war (which unfortunately I know is gonna happen). Law can actually empathize with Rebecca…and Bellamy...and One-Leggged Toy Solider. He knows what it feels like to screwed by Doflamingo and for him to take your dignity away. Look at it this way:
Luffy beats Doflamingo: 'Yeah that's what you get for messing with my friends!'
Law beats Doflamingo: 'You've caused me a lot of pain, you'll never hurt anyone ever again!'It'd be more ironic and be worse for Dofla if the person to beat him is someone he's oppressed.
History repeats itself: Somewhere Roger, Garp, and Whitebeard are smiling.
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That is my point. By the way, Fairy Tail is nothing in comparison with other mangas and I think you have a different understanding of sexism than I have. Just watch Legend of galactic heroes for example and you will see what real sexism is about. Japan is a little bit more sexist and xenophobic than most of the western countries. That is a given fact. In my opinion One Piece contains no sexism at all
Just stop it.
If we're not allowed to rail against ignorance, then the spouting of said ignorance is also not allowed. This topic was unofficially banned by Aohige, which means both sides of the coin. Make a new thread if you feel that strongly about how there is (lol) "no sexism at all" in One Piece.
If Lucy was a girl and Beck was a guy nobody would be complaining about OP being sexist against guys.
And if fishes were wishes then counter-factual hypotheticals might actually be relevant here.
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anyway, SH deserved a Fanclub already. and Bart for Fanclub president!
And i don't get the whole Law being able to empathize thing.
I mean SERIOSULY, don't you guys remember how he joined Shichbukai?
he sent them 100 hearts of pirates. he's known as surgeon of death.The only thing he will be thinking when he beats joker will be : "time for the 3rd part of my plan"
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anyway, SH deserved a Fanclub already. and Bart for Fanclub president!
And i don't get the whole Law being able to empathize thing.
I mean SERIOSULY, don't you guys remember how he joined Shichbukai?
he sent them 100 hearts of pirates. he's known as surgeon of death.The only thing he will be thinking when he beats joker will be : "time for the 3rd part of my plan"
A lot of people change when they meet the mugiwaras
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A lot of people change when they meet the mugiwaras
yup, that's right. mainly luffy. mihawk even commented on his Terrifying ability of his.
He changed crocodile, smoker, robin, buggy , mr3/mr2 and almost everyone he met.
But i doubt law will changed that easily, especially in this 1 arc.
~Aioria made this
