Do you think Luffy will fight every crew member (each one individually over certain periods of time)
How did you first feel about the Luffy Vs. Usopp fight?
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I don't think so, that would get old.
Without deviation from the norm, progress is not possible. - Frank Zappa
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I just wanted to make a point to the people who think that Usopp is an idiot for reacting how he did…
I think Usopp has more of a connection to the ship than any of the other crewmembers, which is why he reacted so much stronger to their decision to leave it behind. I mean... when you think about it, Merry came from his hometown with him. It was given to him by Kaya. For Usopp to leave it behind would be--for him--like leaving the last vestiges of home behind.
Furthermore, he was also gone for most of the decisionmaking process. He didn't hear the assessment, and he didn't see how everyone else reacted to the news that Merry was no longer seaworthy. For Usopp it was a really sudden decision, it might have seemed to him that it was made offhandedly, even though everyone else was upset by it, too. It's just Usopp wasn't there to see their sorrow or share in the decision.
Think of it this way--after having just lost 2/3rds of their skypiea money and gotten the crap kicked out of him by the Franky Family, he comes back to find that the rest of the crew has decided to leave behind the ship that HIS best friend gave them and that HE worked his ass off to keep afloat, and no one seems very concerned about it... Yeah, I think Usopp's reaction, in light of that, was understandable. Not reasonable, but since when are teenaged boys reasonable creatures?
Anyway, that fight broke my heart. I cried.
(As an aside, if he decides to rejoin the Strawhats, as Sogeking or whatever, I think that'll be as big a step forward for him as his initial choice to leave his home and try to live his dream. Merry was familiar to him--if he decides again to leave the familiar surroundings and take a chance on the unfamiliar, then he'll be that much braver to me. :3)
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"Anyway, that fight broke my heart. I cried. "
I can tell you, you are not alone.
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I was thinking "wait, Usopp's winning. No, wait, now Luffy. Usopp. Luffy. Gah! Braiiiin!!!!" it was pretty emotional, especially with Luffy just walking away silently. I was hurt more by what Kaku does to the GM.
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Not reasonable, but since when are teenaged boys reasonable creatures?
You know, that's perhaps one of the best arguments I've seen.
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For why Usopp did what he did, I suppose.
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Yeah but no-one is refuting that he snapped, but the argument from the "Luffy camp" (which I guess I'm in) is that in the larger context of a pirate crew there is simply no excuse for what he did. - or at the very least it doesn't mean Luffy did anything wrong. I'm just saying this to clarify that the "why Usopp did what he did" argument (which I agree with) is different from the "and was he in his right to do so/did Luffy do something wrong?" argument. Or something..
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I wasn't trying to say either one was right or wrong for what they did… I just think Usopp's stance might have needed some clarification. Luffy's decision is more clearly understandable than his, after all. I guess the overall point that I was trying to make with the above post was that Usopp reacted like a kid, which he is, and if he gets over it and returns it'll be another step up the maturity ladder for him.
Personally, I think they both made some mistakes (Usopp for reacting so irrationally and Luffy being so oblivious to Usopp's feelings--though obliviousness is what Luffy's all about, so I can't blame him) but I hope they can suck it up and be crewmates again. Usopp leaving the crew permanently would kill my soul.
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I wasn't trying to say either one was right or wrong for what they did…
Yeah but there's been a lot of discussion about this topic and what it basically comes down to is "it's understandable Usopp snapped" vs "yeah ok but he was still wrong in doing so".. It's basically either emphatising with Usopp vs an (imho) more objective look at actions and words said. Ofcourse the discussion can never end since these are both different ways to look at the situation..
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While I think there will be some fights later on, I can only see Zoro seriously getting into a fight with Luffy, with Sanji as more as an outside chance. Nami wouldn't ever start a serious fight, Robin is going to be 100% loyal after this arc and Chopper I don't see challenging Luffy over anything.
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Anyone of you remamber a thoery about Usopp becoming Luffy's enemy?
Currently writing a book
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Well, honestly, I have nothing more to add to this discussion then what I've already said probably more than I ever needed to. But I personally don't think Usopp was totally wrong. Luffy and Usopp both did what they felt was right, and they both erred in the way they tried to solve the problem. I can't imagine Usopp just sitting there and keeping his mouth shut while the Luffy nochalantly says that someone dear to him was going to be left behind and replaced. That would be…wrong. But we really don't need to go through this again. :laugh:
Anyone of you remamber a thoery about Usopp becoming Luffy's enemy?
Yes, but it deserves to be forgotten.
Without deviation from the norm, progress is not possible. - Frank Zappa
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Which one? You don't think that SogeKing sniped Sodom, did you? ^^;
Oh, ru-debega's post…
Think of it this way–after having just lost 2/3rds of their skypiea money and gotten the crap kicked out of him by the Franky Family, he comes back to find that the rest of the crew has decided to leave behind the ship that HIS best friend gave them and that HE worked his ass off to keep afloat, and no one seems very concerned about it... Yeah, I think Usopp's reaction, in light of that, was understandable. Not reasonable, but since when are teenaged boys reasonable creatures?
So true. Especially his line, "I know I would never catch up with any of you!"
That's why it made me sad when I see the four Strawhats marching to the Franky house. Because Usopp couldn't. Envy, jealousy, you name it. -
@jackvance:
Yeah but there's been a lot of discussion about this topic and what it basically comes down to is "it's understandable Usopp snapped" vs "yeah ok but he was still wrong in doing so".. It's basically either emphatising with Usopp vs an (imho) more objective look at actions and words said. Ofcourse the discussion can never end since these are both different ways to look at the situation..
I agree totally… I just think it's unfair that so many people bash him mercilessly for leaving. I'm not even a huge fan of Usopp (of the Strawhats I think he is probably my least favorite), but I just felt the need to make an effort to articulate his position as I saw it. Even if he's not my favorite, it's not the same crew without him.
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Yes, but it deserves to be forgotten.
Yes, it's deserves to be forgotten. Usopp did not hate Luffy, he just quits the crew.
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Oh, ru-debega's post…
So true. Especially his line, "I know I would never catch up with any of you!"
That's why it made me sad when I see the four Strawhats marching to the Franky house. Because Usopp couldn't. Envy, jealousy, you name it.Yeah, I think that had to be the worst day ever for Usopp. He screws up big-time, then gets left out of one of the biggest decisions they've ever had to make. The only message that I could see Usopp getting from that is "You're useless to us." He probably bitterly felt he was doing them a favor by leaving.
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I know that instead of this I should try to contribute something to the thread but I just love your avatar ru-debega. The style is excellent.
Err… characters shouldn't been expected to act logically. Humans just don't do that - and writers writes humans, not diagrams. Yeah.
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I know that instead of this I should try to contribute something to the thread but I just love your avatar ru-debega. The style is excellent.
Off-topic, but thanks :3 My best friend Aysha drew it for me … jeez, a couple summers ago as a surprise. I'd show the full picture but she hates her art getting passed around when she can't oversee who's using it. The art thieves, yanno. A pity because she's done a TON of jaw-droppingly amazing One Piece fanart but almost no-one sees it since her stuff has gotten ripped off so often. Bites, eh?
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just got done reading 352 and usopp is pretty dumb for fighting luffy if he already knew that.
_ Originally Posted by mr.allsunday
Nice job jumping on the bandwagon there Aethos, I can only wish I was as cool as you_
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Uh… If he knew what?
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About the Merry being broken beyond repair, I assume? :S I don't know though. I reiterate that I think the fight was as much about about Usopp's feelings of being useless compared to the rest of the group as it was about the Merry.
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just got done reading 352 and usopp is pretty dumb for fighting luffy if he already knew that.
Quote Luffy from chapter 332:
Luffy: Usopp isn't stupid enough to risk his life over a little anger…
It wouldn't have come to this if his opinion could be changed with another conversation....got it?Come on, Luffy knew it wasn't dumb, why should you think that? Try reading through this thread.
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…... i have but im forming my own opion(sp). when franky threw usopp in the water and usopp saw the merry. when he came back up he said he already knew about the merry but saw the kalbuterman in skypiea (well he didnt know untill franky told him) but i still find it pretty dumb that if he knew merry was turning into a piece of crap then he shouldn't have fought luffy. Merry did its job saying hed get them to the next island and he did. lucci kaku iceburg,and franky were all right merry was dying,
_ Originally Posted by mr.allsunday
Nice job jumping on the bandwagon there Aethos, I can only wish I was as cool as you_
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Let me quote Usopp for you then.
Usopp: Tell me, if you had a friend on the verge of death,
would you say "Die and take a break, pal," and then leave them?!!Without deviation from the norm, progress is not possible. - Frank Zappa
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well yeah but im not saying the fight was really nesscary thats all maybe the aregument but not the fight.
_ Originally Posted by mr.allsunday
Nice job jumping on the bandwagon there Aethos, I can only wish I was as cool as you_
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well yeah but im not saying the fight was really nesscary thats all maybe the aregument but not the fight.
He fought Luffy for the right to take Merry. Luffy ended up giving her to him in the end anyway, but they went the way of the warrior. Like the giants in Little Garden, they settled it with a fight.
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they kinda had to there. to get back to the village it was the rules. Besides usopp didnt even see the way luffy reacted first anyway. luffy had to make the right desicion and he did. they had to get over the g.m.
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Let me quote Usopp for you then.
Usopp: Tell me, if you had a friend on the verge of death,
would you say "Die and take a break, pal," and then leave them?!!If he was gonna kill all of us in the near future then yes..
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@jackvance:
If he was gonna kill all of us in the near future then yes..
If he was a cold blooded murderer and you know he was premeditating an attack, yeah, but it's not that kind of situation. It's more like if you could see into the future that a friend that you love and trust would be responsible getting into a dangerous accident while you're with him but you don't know when or exactly how.
Without deviation from the norm, progress is not possible. - Frank Zappa
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It's more like if you could see into the future that a friend that you love and trust would be responsible getting into a dangerous accident while you're with him but you don't know when or exactly how.
I'd say it's more like a friend dying of a terminal disease. If you believe the Merry is truly alive in a way (and I do), then it's suffering. It's lost its purpose–like Franky said, "it's not a ship anymore."
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I agree, the only problem with the analogy is that Merry sinking could mean death for the crew as well. Also, if you want to use that analogy, if you had a friend who was diagnosed as having only a short time to live, would you just give up and say "well, guess you're gonna die, see ya!" I know I wouldn't. My mom's had cancer three times, you don't just give up, you try everything you can to fight for life. Usopp was, somewhat misguidedly, treating the situation that way. And I say misguidedly because yes, it's not the same for a ship, as Franky pointed out.
Without deviation from the norm, progress is not possible. - Frank Zappa
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I agree, the only problem with the analogy is that Merry sinking could mean death for the crew as well. Also, if you want to use that analogy, if you had a friend who was diagnosed as having only a short time to live, would you just give up and say "well, guess you're gonna die, see ya!" I know I wouldn't. My mom's had cancer three times, you don't just give up, you try everything you can to fight for life. Usopp was, somewhat misguidedly, treating the situation that way. And I say misguidedly because yes, it's not the same for a ship, as Franky pointed out.
True, true. It's hard to make a human analogy for a ship, even a "living" ship. XD; nothing fits exactly right.
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After reading chapter 384, I come to wonder what will happen if Luffy and Usopp never fought each other, will that affect Usopp's meeting with Karsee and Oinm? Mybe if Usopp never quitted the crew he would be on Sodom but I highly doubt that because he'll probley gets off Sodom anyway.
If it was not for Nico Robin, will Usopp have quitted the crew forever? Or if Aokiji never informed Spandam thus putting his plan into action before the Straw-Hat pirates arrive, and Franky was already taken.
My point is what will happen if the fight never happened, how will that affect the story from 334-384. I'm trying to find the purpose of the fight and how it affect the main story.
Currently writing a book
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The fight happened because of Merry's impending death and Usopp's sudden drop in self-esteem. If the fight never happened, yet those things did, then I can only see that Usopp stays, but would be in a very bitter mood with Luffy (for leaving Merry) and perhaps with the rest of the crew.
But then SogeKing would never be born! Oh, I can't imagine such a character going waste. Usopp's got two reasons of being SogeKing; to hide his identity from the others and to avoid being ID'd by the World Government. The former is the most prominent reason. I doubt that he would go so far into creating "SogeKing" just to avoid being ID'd. A simple mask but with the usual attitude will do.
No, the fight is necessary for his character development. Besides, it's a damn good piece of writing.
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Frist of all, pardon my grammer/spelling problems, I apologize if some of my grammer/spelling are subtle.
I PM a Admin about bumping this topic or not but they are busy as ever and all are offline so I had a feeling to go ahead to post this.
2 years and 90 chapters has passed since Usopp left the crew and he is still not back in the crew. When we get to chapter 433 then it will be the 100th chapter that Usopp had quitted the crew.
When I frist made this topic, the sole purpose was to ponder what it was like when Luffy and Usopp went against each other's throat. Now were changing that, I'm hoping to have this topic become a discussion hub untie Usopp rejoins the crew. When I frist created this topic we were in late chapter 370's to early 380's and now 1 year later tommarrow we have gotten up to chapter 423 (will be chapter 424 in an a while) and many, many things has happen: The flag burning, Usopp's frist sniper skills and his heroic leep from the falling tower.
Now that we are closing on to the end of this arc, and soon the SHP may return to Water 7. So I hope to keep this topic alive untie the offical end of Water 7 arc, after Usopp rejoins then this topic can die offically. As long as Usopp is still Sogeking then we can talk about what he does every chapter untie he rejoins. Here let's make this an theorical discussions oh and speculation is allowed (As long as it's not insane as an laser-powerd Buster Call)
Now so far, one crew has finally gave in, lifting the shadow of doubt that hangs on our heads for 2 years, and that crew is Nico Robin who disappeared and later annouce quitting the crew. Finally we learn about her past and the reason of quitting the crew, finally she confessed to the forgiving Luffy that she wants to rejoin the crew again. Now Nico Robin is a SHP again now olny one more crew has to rejoin is Usopp and currently he is still playing Sogeking. Right now the crew is bound to reunite again on the bridge so let's discuss what might happen after that.
I got a funny theory, suppose Usopp might rejoin the crew in chapter 433? After 100 chapters ago he quitted the crew, suppose he rejoins 100 chapters later?
Chapter 333: Usopp offically quits the crew
Chapter 433: Usopp offically rejoins the crewFunny coincidance; huh? Let the new discussions flow in.
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thi is a funny thought that popped into my head. Probbably won't happen though. What if Sogeking joined the Strawhats. Just an interesting thought to ponder.
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Personally, only the prelude to the fight made me sad, and not the fight…fight actually made me feel somewhat better untill the end, The thing that made me the saddest, though off-topic, is when Vivi and the Straw Hats parted.
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I couldn't understand why Luffy and Usopp must fight in the first place…until I saw the fight and well, you can say it's no longer a fight about who gets Going Merry, it's more like Usopp and Luffy trying to (can't really explain it, since I can't find the correct words about it).....
anyway, I think the fight is necessary....... just the meaning of it is a bit confusing (to me at least)......
