Chapter 627: "Indebted" Discussion

SGR

If Zoro wanted, he could have killed Hodi right there. True or not?

"Unprepared" is a thing you're adding to the story that wasn't stated or implied anywhere. Its not something that happened, its something you want to believe happened.

Zoro owned Hodi and is stronger than him when he isn't using steroids. Get over that.

–- Update From New Post Merge ---

@$abZ:

If you think back to Thriller Bark. Luffy alone had no chance of defeating Oars, but when he was injected with shadows and became Nightmare Luffy he was on another level.

The same might apply to Hodi. He might go crazy with the steds and end up being some next level villian stronger than even Luffy, which would mean Luffy has to surpass him.

Obviosuly it's just an idea… Keimi said there are people stronger than Hodi didn't she? Could mean Hodi wont be a main villian after all and he's just a pussy that was embarrassed by Zoro in front of his boys.

I agree. All I'm arguing is that Zoro is clearly stronger than Hodi in his normal form.

No Maam

@$abZ:

Keimi said there are people stronger than Hodi didn't she?

No. MS fucked up the translation , and it was Nami speaking if I remember correctly.

akagami7

@$abZ:

Keimi said there are people stronger than Hodi didn't she?

No, wrong translation, she said that Hodi wasn't only strong, but he also had a dangerous mind.

Demonicpoodle

Kagehisa's sarcasm meter is broken, jeez. The best part is he uses the "-.-" face as if he knows better.

Great chapter, break sucks but is expected, awesome all around. I was just happy to see Sanji again so I didn't care about the asshole deal. Nami was especially awesome this chapter, and Franky is just like his old self. ^-^

Czechmate

@$abZ:

Obviously it's just an idea… but Keimi said there are people stronger than Hodi didn't she? Could mean Hodi wont be a main villian after all and he's just a pussy that was embarrassed by Zoro in front of his boys. Only Oda knows.

No, no, no, no, no. That's a mistranslation and I don't know why people keep believing it; Keimi said his mind is even more dangerous than his body.

Luffyfan

I really enjoyed the flashbacks, however its great to get back to the present. Sanji is kind of annoying in this chapter, being back to nose bleeds and being a bit of a jerk, oi I was hopping he'd be over that by now due to hearing Jinbe's story and seeing the mermaid princess :sad: Luffy being a sleep is too funny, so like him and of course he's intrested in Hodi now, he's always intrested in the main villains some way or another Cool to see Nami forgiving Jinbe, that was great of her. I agree, the chances of the mermaid Princess and Jinbe joining just went up, wonder which one will end up joining in the end. Over all, good arc.

Marty. 0

The way the pirate did'nt get a chance to justify his killing Otohime us suspicious.

Has Hody been manipulated ?

SabZ

Oh it was a mistranslation… cheers guys. I didn't stick around to find that out. @Czechmate, I didn't KEEP believing it.

Juvar

@$abZ:

Oh it was a mistranslation… cheers guys. I didn't stick around to find that out. @Czechmate, I didn't KEEP believing it.

@No:

No. MS fucked up the translation , and it was Nami speaking if I remember correctly.

I'd advise pretty much everyone to reread this arc as far as it has gotten, if you haven't already, simply because of those translation errors… It WAS Camie, but what she said was something along the lines of "his mind is more dangerous than his strength" meaning that although he is strong, his conviction (and hatred towards humans) is even stronger.

SGR

Alright guys, we got it the first time.

WarshipArc

@Czechmate:

No. His crewmates specifically state after he crushes the castle wall that he hasn't taken any pills yet. You're thinking of when he went to trash Gyro and his crew.

Yeah but after Zoro slashed him his crew had to pop a pill in his mouth, that was how he regained consciousness.

Czechmate

@SGR:

If Zoro wanted, he could have killed Hodi right there. True or not?

True, but irrelevant. Nothing was stopping Foxy from stabbing Luffy in the heart the multiple times he was frozen by the Noro Beams. Doesn't make Foxy stronger than Luffy.

"Unprepared" is a thing you're adding to the story that wasn't stated or implied anywhere. Its not something that happened, its something you want to believe happened.

Considering how confident Hodi is in his abilities and the fact that he looks down on humans and their abilities, it's horribly unlikely Hodi knew what he had coming. He was absolutely unprepared.

All I'm arguing is that Zoro is clearly stronger than Hodi in his normal form.

I agree. But I'm arguing that Hodi getting sliced by Zoro once underwater does not at all reflect his true fighting potential.

Marty. 0

@Luffyfan:

I really enjoyed the flashbacks, however its great to get back to the present. Sanji is kind of annoying in this chapter, being back to nose bleeds and being a bit of a jerk, oi I was hopping he'd be over that by now due to hearing Jinbe's story and seeing the mermaid princess :sad: Luffy being a sleep is too funny, so like him and of course he's intrested in Hodi now, he's always intrested in the main villains some way or another Cool to see Nami forgiving Jinbe, that was great of her. I agree, the chances of the mermaid Princess and Jinbe joining just went up, wonder which one will end up joining in the end. Over all, good arc.

errr, Jimbe has absolutely no chance to join anymore.
This flashback wa clearly not about him and Nami just forgave him.
The character has nothing to offer anymore.
And the princess is just too damn big and weak.

Only fukaboshi's chances went up.

SGR

@Czechmate:

Considering how confident Hodi is in his abilities and the fact that he looks down on humans and their abilities, it's horribly unlikely Hodi knew what he had coming. He was absolutely unprepared.

Fanfiction. You're making a fanfiction to fit whatever you want to happen. You're making excuses just so you can keep seeing Hodi as a worthy villain.

Czechmate

@Marty.:

errr, Jimbe has absolutely no chance to join anymore.
This flashback wa clearly not about him and Nami just forgave him.
The character has nothing to offer anymore.
And the princess is just too damn big and weak.

Only fukaboshi's chances went up.

._______.

@WarshipArc:

Yeah but after Zoro slashed him his crew had to pop a pill in his mouth, that was how he regained consciousness.

That's true. But regardless, as we can see at the end of this chapter, Hodi's fine.

–- Update From New Post Merge ---

@SGR:

Fanfiction. You're making a fanfiction to fit whatever you want to happen. You're making excuses just so you can keep seeing Hodi as a worthy villain.

…Not at all. There's no reason to assume Hodi was completely prepared to fight Zoro, and even if he was it doesn't make him an unworthy villain. It's called simple observation.

Not to mention you didn't address any other point I made in my post.

Gliblord

What the fuck Sanji. When did you go from an awesome to a terrible character.

kaizokuo12

@Juvar:

I'd advise pretty much everyone to reread this arc as far as it has gotten, if you haven't already, simply because of those translation errors… It WAS Camie, but what she said was something along the lines of "his mind is more dangerous than his strength" meaning that although he is strong, his conviction (and hatred towards humans) is even stronger.

I also advice people to read on Mangarule because they use cnet translation for their release…

SGR

@Czechmate:

…Not at all.

Yes

There's no reason to assume Hodi was completely prepared to fight Zoro

There's no reason to assume Hodi wasn't. You're the one making a reaching statement, you're the one that has to give us reasosn to assume what you say.

and even if he was it doesn't make him an unworthy villain. It's called simple observation.

I never said he isn't a worthy Villain, he's great personality-wise, and although he's obviously weaker than Zoro at base level, it doesn't matter as long as he takes some good pills.

All, I'm arguing is that he's weaker than Zoro (and thus, Luffy) as long as he's undoped, and you keep making assumptions to try to deny that obvious fact.

Juvar

@SGR:

Fanfiction. You're making a fanfiction to fit whatever you want to happen. You're making excuses just so you can keep seeing Hodi as a worthy villain.

Speculation/Observation, not fanfiction.

@SGR:

Alright guys, we got it the first time.

It's not like people read what has been posted and then repeat it if they all reply at the same time dude. That's what happens every time a new chapter is released, deal with it.

SGR

@Czechmate:

There's no reason to state that after one single interaction between the two of them, especially since Hodi's demonstrated what he can do on land with zero ES. He may very well be stronger on land, but it's painstakingly obvious that Hodi wasn't taking Zoro seriously when he got slashed.

This is not speculation.

Czechmate

@SGR:

All, I'm arguing is that he's stronger than Zoro (and thus, Luffy) as long as he's undoped, and you keep making assumptions to try to deny that obvious fact.

You seem to have missed my reply to that point;

I agree. But I'm arguing that Hodi getting sliced by Zoro once underwater does not at all reflect his true fighting potential.

I'm not denying that. I don't believe Hodi could defeat Zoro on land with no ES, but I don't think he'd get one-shotted if he was truly prepared.

Dan Dangerously

@SGR:

I agree. All I'm arguing is that Zoro is clearly stronger than Hodi in his normal form.

But why are you arguing that? It's meaningless.

Marty. 0

@Czechmate:

._______.

Is that a slight ?

Because from someone who believes Zoro is not stronger than Hody, that'd be rich…

SGR

@Dan:

But why are you arguing that? It's meaningless.

I like arguing.

@Czechmate:

You seem to have missed my reply to that point;

I'm not denying that. I don't believe Hodi could defeat Zoro on land with no ES, but I don't think he'd get one-shotted if he was truly prepared.

And you think Hodi would defeat Zoro on sea?

Czechmate

@Marty.:

Because from someone who believes Zoro is not stronger than Hody, that'd be rich…

If you think that's what my argument is you're obviously not reading very well.

@SGR:

And you think Hodi would defeat Zoro on sea?

Not necessarily. I think he'd put up a better fight if he fought Zoro again underwater with no ES, but I don't believe Hodi without ES is stronger than Zoro.

ItalianAce

And so the flashback come to an end…luffy always the same he don't hear nothing...
I suppose the hodi plan was to kill every single fishman that don't accept his command......he become what he hate..human

somebody know why MS chenge the name from HODI to HORDY???

Kisoto

For Hodi… he was probably prepared to fight, but he wasn't prepared for much of a fight by his thinking - espceically given that he and Zoro were both in the water. We saw it during Arlong Park when the matches took to the water as well. The Fishmen were very confident that they could not be beaten in the water and there is no reason that Hodi wouldn't think the same. If he hates Humans as passionately as we've seen, then chances are he hasn't gone to large areas of them often, or given many a chance to face him underwater (since most would surrender for fear of getting crushed by the water pressure upon entry). He would have no basis for thinking that a human could move as fast as Zoro clearly did in their confrontation.

In that respect, he was prepared for a fight, but not for an actual battle.

SGR

@Czechmate:

Not necessarily. I think he'd put up a better fight if he fought Zoro again underwater with no ES, but I don't believe Hodi without ES is stronger than Zoro.

I disagree, but I guess that's far more arguable than what you said before.

Willpower

This post is deleted!

m00n

Anyone else thinking this is the first time Sanji ever questioned something Nami said?

WarshipArc

@Czechmate:

That's true. But regardless, as we can see at the end of this chapter, Hodi's fine.

So was Zoro after Mihawk gave him the exact same wound.
Except he wasn't, Zoro was hiding it and it didn't show until he was fighting Hatchi.

SGR

@Kisoto:

For Hodi… he was probably prepared to fight, but he wasn't prepared for much of a fight by his thinking - espceically given that he and Zoro were both in the water. We saw it during Arlong Park when the matches took to the water as well. The Fishmen were very confident that they could not be beaten in the water and there is no reason that Hodi wouldn't think the same. If he hates Humans as passionately as we've seen, then chances are he hasn't gone to large areas of them often, or given many a chance to face him underwater (since most would surrender for fear of getting crushed by the water pressure upon entry). He would have no basis for thinking that a human could move as fast as Zoro clearly did in their confrontation.

In that respect, he was prepared for a fight, but not for an actual battle.

Hodi sure didn't seem to underestimate him when he used a guy to block a blow with his partner. More fanfiction.

But ok, I'm bored of this discussion now, you guys think whatever you want to think if it makes you any happier.

Czechmate

@SGR:

I disagree, but I guess that's far more arguable than what you said before.

I wasn't being clear before, and that was my fault. But yeah, I just believe that Hodi being one-shotted by Zoro isn't an adequate display of his real fighting potential, based off of the things we've seen him do on land with no ES.

But ok, I'm bored of this discussion now, you guys think whatever you want to think if it makes you any happier.

No need to be condescending.

rubia_ryu

Oh, yeah. I forgot Pappag was still with those guys.

Hm, why do I suspect some sort of execution to take place, featuring the SH's remaining at the palace + King Neptune? The three princes officially won my respect last chapter, and now I await their kickassness on Hodi's gang.

Oh, and that random pirate totally was on his own. Come on, Hodi. We knew you were an asshole, but…

@m00n:

Anyone else thinking this is the first time Sanji ever questioned something Nami said?
[qimg]http://img641.imageshack.us/img641/8161/alsdkjflk.jpg[/qimg]

Hm, I don't think so. There was a time when he also questioned Robin's explanation on Perona's ghosts. Meh, I really see him becoming more mentally unstable than an ass. Being forever alone hurts.

mrkaizoku

I'd taken a long break from reading One Piece only to come back in time for Oda to take a break. Damn.

I'm pretty certain that Houdi is behind the assassination of Otohime. What with all the clues we've been given so far. It's very unlikely that it would be anyone else.

Someone brought up an awesome point about Whitebeard in this thread. What did the other Fishmen think of him? Up until now I'd assumed that all Fishmen were like Jimbe and had respect for him; now it seems that isn't the case at all. It seems that most Fishmen would have had a venomous hatred of him. Fishman human relations sure are complicated.

Czechmate

@WarshipArc:

So was Zoro after Mihawk gave him the exact same wound.
Except he wasn't, Zoro was hiding it and it didn't show until he was fighting Hatchi.

I think it's pretty safe to say those injuries aren't comparable.

Hiroy

@SGR:

Fanfiction. You're making a fanfiction to fit whatever you want to happen. You're making excuses just so you can keep seeing Hodi as a worthy villain.

No one is making shit up to justify anything. It's just a fact in the OP verse that Fishmen are alot stronger than humans underwater. How often do you think Hodi sees a human that can strike hard and fast on a fishfolk/merfolk's turf?

But yeah, Zoro win over Hodi just shows how far his training has taken him. That said, I would not be quick to put down opinions that says Hodi wasn't expecting to be beaten. It's possible.

SGR

@Czechmate:

No need to be condescending.

Not being condescending, I just think its complete BS how you guys are justifying something that was quite clearly Oda's attempt at saying "Zoro? Oh, he trained. Yeah, he's even more fucking awesome now. You know Hodi? The final boss of this arc? Yeah. He fucked his shit UP. He's def. gonna need some drugs to even compare himself with Luffy."

Willpower

So you guys are saying that Zoro's dream of becoming the greatest swordsman will be finished by Hodi?

Czechmate

@SGR:

Not being condescending, I just think its complete BS how you guys are justifying something that was quite clearly Oda's attempt at saying "Zoro? Oh, he trained. Yeah, he's even more fucking awesome now. You know Hodi? The final boss of this arc? Yeah. He fucked his shit UP. He's def. gonna need some drugs to even compare himself with Luffy."

I don't think you're comprehending the fact that I'm agreeing with you, and that I'm not stating that Hodi's stronger than Zoro, at all.

WarshipArc

@Czechmate:

I think it's pretty safe to say those injuries aren't comparable.

I don't care what species you are, a slash across the torso is going to take you down.

Juvar

Why am I still reading all this? Normally it's interesting, but now it has gone down to a silly argument, in which both sides actually both agree that Zoro is stronger than Hodi… I'll come back later. :ninja:

SGR

You changed stances, at #99, you were definately implying Hodi would be on equal terms with Zoro if he was underwater and "prepared". Even if you were arguing from the beginning like you're arguing now, though, the fact that its possible Hodi was unprepared doesn't mean he was. He most likely was prepared and "unprepared" just seems to be an excuse to take away from the fact Zoro is 20 times stronger than Hodi UNDERWATER with a SINGLE SLASH (Something you're supposed to go "Wow, holy shit, how does he do that" instead of "Meh, Hodi was unprepared, the fight would have been fairer if he was ready for what was coming to him").

Its just pure fan-fiction. I'm not arguing its impossible. I'm arguing there's no basis whatsoever to have it now. And I don't mind predictions. I share a lot of stupid predictions in these forums. But the way you guys talked (You even going as far as saying its "painstakingly obvious"), it seemed like it was a proven fact already.

Sakonosolo

It being spelled Hordy in these scans kind of confused me and I wonder which one it is.

Nice chapter, I loved this flashback. Oda's getting darker and darker, granted it was a flashback but we had Fisher Tiger die, Otohime die, and the pirate that killed Otohime die.

Can't wait for the climax of this arc.

Kisoto

@SGR:

More fanfiction.

Fanfiction? I'm not sure what you mean; I didn't make anything up.

Hodi using his guy to block an attack shows how much of a jerk he is - again going back to older arcs, we saw this with Krieg. And we just got Hachi's explanation that Hodi isn't against hurting humans and fishmen alike for his ideals. Besides that, they were still above water at that point, not submerged as in the scene I was referencing.

I'm not touching the matter of who is or isn't stronger between him and Zoro, just pointing out that Fishmen mentality, especially when the Fishman in question looks down on humans, tends to change when the field is entirely made of water.

Strength doesn't matter in that sense. One of my favorite characters is Usopp and he get off some excellent fights despite being the weakest member of the crew.

Czechmate

@Hiroy:

It's just a fact in the OP verse that Fishmen are alot stronger than humans underwater. How often do you think Hodi sees a human that can strike hard and fast on a fishfolk/merfolk's turf?

^ The only point I was trying to make.

rubia_ryu

I don't care if people ignore me. I just want to say that that panel of Otohime's funeral was AMAZING and BEAUTIFUL. That is all.

Willpower

No matter what happens Zoro cannot lose against a swordsman(Hodi),another fighting-style maybe.. but, a sf? never again.

SGR

Hodi sure didn't seem "unprepared" when he attacked Crab hand, doing everything in his power to fuck that shit up even though he could have walked there and just punched one person at a time.

Kanemaki

Nice chapter, kinda predictable though, killing most of secret boss theories. Anyone really expected different reactions from Nami and Sanji?
Everything points to the New Fishmen Pirates as the bad guys and possibly some mid-way intervention by Van Der Decken and Caribou just to keep things somewhat equal, since the "named" New Fishmen are clearly outnumbered by all the Strawhats, plus 3 princes and Jinbei's gang.
Honestly, none of them look capable of posing a real threat, even if they use ES. Oda has already made that point with Luffy kicking Decken and Zoro slashing Hodi, both without much difficulty. ES is pretty much the leverage they need to avoid a complete beatdown and pretend they can have a "fair" fight.
I think these battles will only be eye-candy of the new skills each Strawhat learned during the timeskip, since the rematch with the Pacifistas was kinda bland on that issue, just showing that they "improved", without much detail.