Today I saw a clear sign of the end times for paper media. It happened a lot faster than any of us could have anticipated, and I feel very sad at the idea that in ten years time, paper books could only be found on ebay and at garage sales (akin to buying VHS tapes today).
More importantly for us, what are manga companies doing about selling digital manga? I found some in the Kindle store, but they're all obscure and a bit overpriced (One Piece used to be eight bucks in paperback).
What do you guys think about the future of printed manga?
Kindle outsells softcover and hardcover books combined on Amazon
-
-
Yeah I'm never going digital when it comes to books
I actually love to collect books on animation and comics. Picked up a few signatures too
  -
Well, digital technology makes things more accessible but it can work the other way around.
I hope we won't burn books because they are part of our legacy. I have learned a lot through books and I would feel bad if I discard someone's legacy because I would not like mine to be denied.
I hope we leave some kind of reminder how to make them because they are part of our history.
-
Digital books bother me for different reasons than not being able to hold a book in my hands and actually read and touch it. Like, if civilization dies one day, the only things that will be a testiaite that we were here are the things that are hard to destroy. Books, statues, pyramids are hard to get rid of if effort is put into place, but a malfunctioning computer with data deleted or data that you can't access just won't be a stamp on the earth that says we, as a civilization, were here once. That bothers me horribly. So many things can wipe out all the data in the computers around the world so easily, but it's hard to get rid of a giant pyramid with scriptures on it that scream that there were people who lived in the unbearable heat of the desert and thrived.
Slytherin all the way, baby~[[deviantART]](http://sry005.deviantart.com/)[[art tumblr]](http://artsycrapfromsai.tumblr.com/)[[Sai's Art Thread 2.0!]](http://apforums.net/showthread.php?t=40075&p=3045242#post3045242)
-
What do you guys think about the future of printed manga?
It'll probably die.
I've never considered printed manga to be the main source of income for companies though…merchandise, like figurines, posters, shirts - stuff that can't be digitized and transmitted, is where the real money can be made. No American institution exists that unifies both licensed works and their merchandise, though.
-
They're going to have to drag me kicking and screaming into the digital age as far as book appreciation goes.
I've tried Kindle and I do not like it at all. I don't know, there's just something about having an actual book in my hand that simply enhances the reading experience for me.
a mood come alive.
-
I don't have an IPad. Don't plan on owning an Ipad. My eyes hurt when I read on the computer.
I'm sticking to books until the technology is perfected.
-
Kindle can't recreate the feeling of going through the entirety of Lord of the Rings plus the appendices in one sitting.
Also you can't hide a knife in a Kindle.
-
I keep saying. Its insane to us because we were raised on paper books, but paper and printing costs keep rising, and theres a generation now being started on digital. its the inevitable future. It was just a matter of the tech developing sleek looking devices that were at a reasonable size. After that the convenience starts over-riding.
Periodicals will go first, Newspapers are practically gone already, and comics are getting there.. Archival shelf editions of things will take a lot longer to phase out though because people like solid books on their shelves and theres centuries of tradition behind it. And there are of course thousands (millions?) of books out there right now that are out of print or whatnot, but wont ever be converted to digital format, so the only way to get them is paper form.
It sucks, and the specific formatting and way it all goes and storage and terms and whatnot are impossible to tell, and hard paper copies will exist for a while out of sheer tradition (50 years? 100? 15?) so probably not in our lifetimes, but it'll happen.
Of course, the space they take up, and the fact that some never get touched again after being read once, even if you own it for 20 years, are pretty big downsides.
I personally can't get behind touch screen technology like Ipads, it feels wierd to me. But thats going to be the standard.
And yes, its inevitable for video games too, regardless of the used game market and the fact that people prefer to own copies. The convenience and lack of production cost and middleman will eventually make it the standard once its been happening long enough that people are used to it and supply/demand/pricepoint works itself out better. (The recent hiccups of the PS store aside. Thats just a natural bump in the road that is the craziest technology shift in history.)
I mean, does anyone under the age of 20 really remember a time before the internet? I remember when it was a big deal to get internet installed in my house, and it was a special thing only the teachers could use at school. But can you really go back to driving down to a library for research, and having to take all your notes there because books can't be checked out, and that anything you DO check out, has to be returned in a few days?
Has not Netflix pretty much made video rental stores almost completely irrelevant?
We're living in the future, its just hard to realize because it happened in our time and took a decade.
@Cyan:Kindle can't recreate the feeling of going through the entirety of Lord of the Rings plus the appendices in one sitting.
How is that even possible.
-
Are there any specifics on the books that sold better over Kindle?
Intuitively, I'd suspect college texts to be the primary reason this is happening. Because,
1. Textbooks are overpriced, but often essential for classes. Especially practice books.
2. College kids don't have a lot of cash, and so would like to save money whenever possible.
3. College kids are more tech savvy and computer dependant than functional adults.….
But I've never heard of Kindle before today...
-
They're going to have to drag me kicking and screaming into the digital age as far as book appreciation goes.
I've tried Kindle and I do not like it at all. I don't know, there's just something about having an actual book in my hand that simply enhances the reading experience for me.
This. Novels and stuff aren't the same when they're not on actual paper.
–- Update From New Post Merge ---
@RobbyBevard:
How is that even possible.
Coffee. Lots and lots of coffee.
-
Yeah I'm never going digital when it comes to books
I actually love to collect books on animation and comics. Picked up a few signatures too
ditto, besides wtf are books priced at 9.99 on kindle and what not
i can get a hardcover for only a couple more. and paperback is CHEAPER.
wth is digital books so damn expensive
-
To be fair, there weren't any new Harry Potter books this year.
And the stats are probably different in Japan, where One Piece is selling 3 million copies of the new volume every quarter….
But I've never heard of Kindle before today…
That's because you've been out talking with the trees for the last two years.
ditto, besides wtf are books priced at 9.99 on kindle and what not
i can get a hardcover for only a couple more. and paperback is CHEAPER.
wth is digital books so damn expensive
Supply and demand. People are willing to pay that price, so they're charging it. Plus, they don't want to kill the hard copy market overnight.
Its kind of like how audiobooks cost up to 80$ for a novel you can get for 5$. They shouldn't cost that much, but its what the market dictates because no one buys them. (But no one buys them because they're so expensive…)
-
Ugh. I'm glad that things are moving into space-saving directions but none of that quite matches up, for me, to reading through an old book and feeling and seeing every word printed on a physical piece of paper and hearing the sounds of my fingers turning the pages. Also smelling the book glue. All of those feelings are part of the memories that I keep from reading an awesome book. Man.
-
I prefer that too and the atmosphere of a library (especially a really old one) and its going to take a LONG time to phase out, especially with all the old used books still around. Probably not within our lifetimes.
But in a couple generations? Not so much. Which is sad. But inevitable. I have no way of guessing when printing new paper books will stop being the norm. But eventually.
-
There's also the fact that, as a kindle user, you don't technically own the books you're reading. You can't resell them, and if something happens to your Kindle, your ability to get replacement e-books is solely based on the generosity of Amazon. There's also the faint possibility that Amazon could become draconian (like Nintendo with the 3DS) and try to deliberately brick your Kindle hardware remotely.
The bottom line: the e-books you've downloaded are not technically assets, and have no monetary value.
-
I can't see books being phased out completely. The bigger solution lies in fixing the printing problems, not putting them online. If books are ass cheap, they won't phase out. Without that, important books won't disappear because there is still value in having hard copies of important documents.
  -
Fuck digital readers.
Paper or nothing.
-
There's also the fact that, as a kindle user, you don't technically own the books you're reading. You can't resell them, and if something happens to your Kindle, your ability to get replacement e-books is solely based on the generosity of Amazon. There's also the faint possibility that Amazon could become draconian (like Nintendo with the 3DS) and try to deliberately brick your Kindle hardware remotely.
The bottom line: the e-books you've downloaded are not technically assets, and have no monetary value.
Technically you don't own the IP to a book either, you own a license and the IP owners allow resale simply because it isn't cost effective to enforce resale prevention. Owners bypass resale losses by releasing new editions of the book every once in a while, or bank on the book having enough hype (like HP) that people are willing to buy the book new rather than wait and get a cheaper, used copy. There's also the issue of people finding used copies "dirty" and less desirable.
As we were talking last night, the far former bypasses your 5 year copyright suggestion. Even if the material enters the public domain, it can still be registered under a new copyright once adjustments are made…
-
There's also the fact that, as a kindle user, you don't technically own the books you're reading.
The bottom line: the e-books you've downloaded are not technically assets, and have no monetary value.Yeah, I'm really not cool with that. I liked Kindle when I thought you were downloading the books to a small harddrive, to keep. That you're just basically renting them and playing them off the internet and at the whim of the publisher? THAT is not cool and sucks, and eventually the market will probably make them fix it.
Eventually.
Fuck digital readers.
Paper or nothing.
You're using a digital reader right now.
I can't see books being phased out completely. The bigger solution lies in fixing the printing problems, not putting them online. If books are ass cheap, they won't phase out. Without that, important books won't disappear because there is still value in having hard copies of important documents.
Nope. "Completely" will take an incredibly long time. Because there is a benefit to physical copies, and a tactile sense to it that isn't quite the same as with movies or music, which are on a screen no matter what you get the content on.
But they'll stop being dominant format sooner than we think, probably.
-
@RobbyBevard:
You're using a digital reader right now.
you know what I meant.
-
And your still making use of the same tech. The difference is only in degrees and what we're used to.
-
I won't allow it
-
Print is never gonna die, not during the time I'm still walking on this earth at least.
Though I have been fascinated with tablets and like. I remember Sony's e-reader at a Staples one time that really emulated the texture and tone of ink really well.
-
I don't own a Kindle, but I have been reading e-books pretty much exclusively for the past few years. The main reason is that I don't have enough physical space to keep hundreds of books. There is a certain appeal to owning a physical copy, but not enough to bother me that much.
-
Tree murderers.
With literature I get it, there's a kind of feeling of integration with the story.
But with technical books? What Do I do when I forget what exactly is a neuronal network? or what's the diference between little endian or big endian? Do I move the 2 mtrs to get the book, search the index, go to the page and skim over the relevant part, or I get to google and do a quick search?
What if I'm somewhere else? At my parent's house, They are going out and I want to read.. something lovecraftian, I go to their books and find only the things that I've given them a DICTIONARY and some cook books.
The real issue with the ownership is about the buisness model that's built. Think banks, you use digital money, all the time, it doesn't mater the POS or the teller machine, it's not YOUR money, but you are using it, why should matter the physical thing that you are using to read the digital books that you have?
Also, a better lisence deal, revisions get relased as patches, like how doctors change every 6 months about how deadly/indispensable is orange juice to babies, or how pluton is too worthless to be called a planet.
I'm not a particulary avid literature reader, but as a researcher of random facts and stupid shit as a kid, from dinosaurs, to elements, to mitology, to taxonomy, to wars, to history of countries, to shonen jump (My kid self was a lot smarter than my current self), linking and search is golden.
You are thinking worlds, but not giving a damn about knowledge.
Digital books is the future, once a non stupid license is created.
I have the feeling that Books and Texts are quite different words in english…
3DS FC: 0516-7666-3837
SW-4128-8032-0729
-
from my to me a digital book can never match a real physical copy, i love reading books and this might seem odd but to me a physical copy seems more personal, more real and allot easier to get engrossed in the story i feel this lost to an extent on a digital read. i mean Im not entirely opposed it has its uses for one it would be a good way to release obscure manga that has no chance of a printed release. but honestly the simple fact is its not the same this may be because im an obsesive nerd stuck in my ways, but for me digital readers will never replace real books.
-
Personally, I love having a nice big shelf filled with books, displayed for all to see. In a way, it's a way I can show off part of who I am. It carries a lot of deep meaning for me. You can't do that with purely digital media. So I'm all for keeping printed copies of things alive. It's the same thing with movies and such too. Sure, digital readers have their merits, but it will never be able to carry the same weight.
-
i actually just got the kindle app for my iphone and tried it out yesterday.
I'd been looking for a specific book in bookstores whenever I happened to pass one for a long time, but in the end on the weekend i gave up and figured I'd just order it. Given the choice of paying 30 bucks (inc shipping) and waiting a month or getting it for 8 bucks right now on kindle, i thought i'd try out the latter. Considering it was on something as small as my phone, I thought I'd hate it and my eyes would hate me, but in the end i was shocked that it was completely fine. I even read it way faster than i normally read books of an equivalent size.
In conclusion, I used to a bit of a Luddite on the whole digital books thing, but I think I just accidentally converted myself to the other side
-
Tree murderers.
You use toilet paper, right?
I'm half serious but I think you make good arguments. I feel the perception and reality of property ownership is the main issue here. Even if laws were made to copyrights wouldn't last hundreds of years, because of how digital distro works, companies could simply refuse to host the public domain files and block your access to it.
It would be like being a billionaire in a MMORPG. No real value.
-
I love books. You can't make me give them up!!
Seriously though, the only, and I mean ONLY good thing I can think of for digital readers is saving the trees. That's it.
Oh, and being able to change the size of the font to what you need. That's a big asset for older, near-sighted people who struggle even with reading glasses.
-
Even the tree argument is pretty week since… lumber companies replant as they go to keep their renewable resource... renewing. In fact they usually plant more than they cut.
the biggest benefit to digital is it doesn't take up space, and the convenience of finding a hard to find thing... IF its available, wihout having to go anywhere. (I have shelves and shelves full, book stacked three layers thick... some of them haven't been touched or even seen in years and will never be re-read... and the manga is a major space eater...)
I understand where the future lies, but I'll always prefer classic books myself.
-
This is a no brainer. People buy books on the internet out of convenience. If they can just have the book as soon as you buy it, then you have achieved the most convenient state. Readers who care more about the physicality are more likely to go to book stores where they can take time to read through a book and see if they enjoy it, or examine other books to see what is of interest.
-
I love books. You can't make me give them up!!
Seriously though, the only, and I mean ONLY good thing I can think of for digital readers is saving the trees. That's it.
Oh, and being able to change the size of the font to what you need. That's a big asset for older, near-sighted people who struggle even with reading glasses.
Pretty much this.
I acknowledge that digital readers are the ~WAY OF THE FUTURE~ but for me there's nothing like the heft of a book in your hand. Books are a badge of pride! spines facing outwards all in a row.
My living room has 6 bookshelves and my basement has 7, all crammed with books both bought and inherited. I shudder to think of a time where I couldn't just plop down on a couch, no matter what else was happening, and pick at random one book out of the hundreds and be transported to someplace completely new. And for me, touch is an important part of that.
-
You use toilet paper, right?
My use of a bidet isn't in trial here!
Seriously though, the only, and I mean ONLY good thing I can think of for digital readers is saving the trees. That's it.
Oh, and being able to change the size of the font to what you need. That's a big asset for older, near-sighted people who struggle even with reading glasses.
You are ignoring the fact that device with one book takes the space of the entire spawn of literataure of mankind, that with the correct license you could access your books with any device, that the books don't decay, you can't lose them, you can't damage them, it's easier and cheaper to publish, it should be cheaper and faster to obtain, global relases, multimedia integration.
Vs.
It doesn't use power (except to read at night), It ocupies a phisical space, it's loanable, it's mine, it "feels" good and I like bibliotecs.
And two of them depend on keeping an obsolete licencing system.
Besides, what's keeping you from buying books that you realy like and want to show in your collection? Again, with the right license you could pay only for the printing of your book.
-
I don't think paper books will disappear.
When it comes to buying, I think it's sort of logical that digital books sell better. After all, it's easier and more convenient than going to the store and finding a place for that new book. But there still are libraries, and I think people would prefer to have an actual book if they're borrowing it. -
I don't think I'll ever be able to deal with music going digital.
I don't know why, but the feeling of taking a CD and putting it into a Radio/Walkman makes it more personal to me. Makes it physical.
Although the above is not exactly the same as with books, I'm sure people had the same idea when music started leaning towards digital. And it's not like CDs are dead.
I'm sure that once the technology is perfected, people will shift even more to E-books.Though I, personally, prefer a physical copy of a book to an electronic copy.
-
@Badass:
I don't think I'll ever be able to deal with music going digital.
I don't know why, but the feeling of taking a CD and putting it into a Radio/Walkman makes it more personal to me. Makes it physical.
This is a completely different matter. The act of listening to music has little to nothing to do with the material of the carrier, apart maybe from sound quality. Whereas while reading a book you're constantly holding the thing and looking at it.
-
Unlike records and CDs, books (or at least their more primitive ancestors) are something that has existed for thousands of years. I refuse to believe that they will become extinct within a few years. But that's just my humble opinion of course, I can also remember a time when I believed that MP3s were a fad…
-
I hope they keep both digital and book. I do fear, however, the book will exist but cost MORE than digital.
-
I think the main problem with a purely e-book world that you guys are expressing is that most of us value the urge to collect, and the feeling of accomplishment when you collect a new item. Most people who buy large numbers of books/music/games enjoy collecting, and it's hard to imagine anyone buying a complete manga or book series (especially manga) without enjoying the thrill of collecting.
Has Kindle, by its very nature, abandoned this market?
-
This weekend my mom donated a bunch of books, so I was going through my room to see which ones I wanted to keep and which I didn't. There were a number of ones I found and kept that had a lot of memories for me, like Back from the Deep, a fascinating real-life tale of the histories of two sister submarines and their service in WWII that I read when I was younger, or James Herriot's Cat Stories, which made me cry when I first read it, or this wonderfully-cheesy crossover teaming up Holmes and Watson with Professor Challenger during The War of the Worlds Martian invasion. Really, there's a ton of sentiment in these things which I can't get from a digital reader, whihc is why I'll be dragged over that threshold kicking and screaming.
-
I know I never thought it would be the same, but I love my Nook. I spent the last couple of months reading wheel of time on it. No searching for where I put the next book, no lugging around a dozen books, and when I needed a change, just go to my humor shelf and start a new one.
I admit the feeling isn't the same as pulling a hardcover off the new release shelf, or finding a prize at the used book store, but for pure reading value you can't beat carrying your entire library with you or getting a new release while sitting on your couch.
I'm from a family of readers and now we're a family of E-readers. Even my 80 year old grandfather loves his nook which says a lot.
-
Don't speak of such betrayal in this thread!!!
-
Digital pad can't ever compete with a real, impressive and historical library.
Also, it wouldn't make for a very good Doctor Who episode.
-
Kindle's would never lead me into the world of the Pagemaster!
:cwy:
Anyone who wants to talk shit about this movie in my presence has a death wish.
-
Hey the truth must be told. I even missed the last friends of the library booksale. And I can usually find a full bag of books for 10 bucks there.
Plus I can play angry birds on it.
-
i guess if you're the kind of person who buys a bag of books for 10$, then a pad would be ok for you
i'm pretty selective about the books i buy and read though. if there are books i want to buy, i actually really enjoy the hunt for them, and nothing in the world beats getting books in the mail. It's like getting birthday presents, and when you open them, it's exactly what you always wanted. Buying books is actually how I reward myself for working hard or getting money, and a kindle just wouldn't do it for me.
When I do add new books to my library, it's like… indescribable. Pride. love. Accomplishment. Doesn't matter if they're used or not.
  -
Guess so. I'm a person who reads all the time. If I'm out of the house for more then a half hour then I have something to read with me. And my favorite books are worn out to the point that I been forced to replace them.
It's not that I can't understand your point. But if I get books in the mail then it's a given that book one in the series will come last which is just depressing. And when I found the book I been checking used book stores for months for on the nook, I didn't think twice about downloading it.
-
I wonder if they ever ported the old choose-your-own-adventure books to e-books.
