If Arlong escaped prison I'm pretty sure Hachi, Jinbe or Hodi would know about it.
Chapter 624: "Queen Otohime" Discussion
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The translation of the chapter 624 by Cnet:
http://mangahelpers.com/t/cnet128/releases/29596It's interesting to note that Cnet's translation implies that Arlong was the one who lied to the WG about humans refusing to give blood to Fisher Tiger:
@Cnet:2
[Insert text: Arlong, captured by Kizaru…]
[Box: Following the death of Fisher Tiger, Hero of Slaves… // ...Arlong's hatred for humans grew still stronger, and he turned upon them viciously... // ...only to be captured...]
Arlong: If it weren't for that damn refusal… he could have lived!! // If we had only had some fishman blood… Fisher Tiger wouldn't have died!! // You filthy humans... // ...drove him to his death!!!!3
[Box: The Grand Line; The Sun Pirates' ship]
Jimbei: "Due to the humans refusing to offer a blood transfusion… // ...Fisher Tiger, captain of the Sun Pirates... / ...met his end." // ......It is not too far from the truth......... // After all, the ultimate blame for his death...... / ...does lie with the humans... // Arlong must have lied to the Marines…...
Aladdin: It was the humans that betrayed him… and his grudge against the humans that led him to refuse the transfusion. / And of course, there is his past as a slave… The truth is crueller still. // It would cast a stain upon his honour... // Arlong would not reveal such things.
Jimbei: Quite…Now it makes sense, the idea that Arlong said the truth but the WG changed it to blame the humans didn't make sense to me, but Arlong telling a lie (about the humans refusing to give him blood) to protect Tiger's honour makes sense…
Also, nothing about Arlong saying that he will take the slaves with him:
@Cnet:Arlong: Our Big Bro is dead!! So I'm going back to my old crew - the Arlong Pirates!! // And I'm taking my old comrades with me!!!
He only took the old members of his crew back.
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Thanks isrick for posting that.
One last thing though. Jinbe mentioned there was only ONE thing bothering him about accepting the position. The only thing must've been Them setting Arlong free
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Truth be told there are a ton of changes that change how I read the chapter. Taking a quick break from my studies, but I think this cover the others I noticed:
[Box: The Sun Pirates… under their new captain, "Jinbe, Knight of the Sea"... continued to live out [U]their days of inevitable conflict.]
[…]
Otohime: I have been gathering them for over five years now… but I still have only around one hundred sheets, with ten signatures on each sheet. Which makes around one thousand supporters. Since the population of Fishman Island is around five million… I feel it is somewhat lacking.
[…]
Aladdin: There is no need to trouble yourself over him, Jinbe. You are brothers in arms, born and raised together in the Fishman District!! No matter the reason… nobody could expect you to take his life.
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i don't get it. whats wont binktopia/mangastream wont use cnet's translation. :|
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Because they're slow….?
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@RPG:
I like the cover story but what does all the kanji say. never mind. I wish jinbei kick arlong's ass more before leaving. did Marco even have a crew besides those two fishmen. Thats not a faction
Yosaku and Johnny are no boat brothers. The text in the bottom reads: 世界の甲板から Vol.10 「ココヤシ村―兄弟船ヨサクとジョニー」 - literally "From the Decks of the World Vol. 10 [Coconut Village - Johnny and Yosaku on a brotherly boat.]" On another note, Oda may be making a pun on "brothership" with 兄弟船, which is the direct translation.
On the first standard is: 「ココヤシ村 漁の兄弟」 - "Coconut Village - Fishing brothers."
On the second one: 「バウンティ丸 ヨサク&ジョニー」 - "Bounty - Yosaku and Johnny."
Bounty is the name of their boat.
On Yosaku's back is 大漁 - big catch.You know, I'm no pro like Naruhodo is, but hey, this is only the first page.
Thanks kaze1028 for the spoiler pics.
If Arlong escaped prison I'm pretty sure Hachi, Jinbe or Hodi would know about it.
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@Mr.333:
[hide]If Oda is setting up the stage for what I think he's going to do, than I must say that that would be very creative of him.
First, Credits to Therrester and anyone else who thought of this idea.
Now we all know that Otohime's goal in life is essentially to end the hateful discrimination and close the gap between Fishmen/Mermen & Humans. We've seen her preaching to try and accept them, to understand them, despite their wrongdoings and ignorance. Now at the end of this chapter, we have the Tenryuubito's appearance factoring into the Fishman Island Flashback. We also know that Jinbe said this about Otohime's death:
"You caused that uproar on "Fishman Island"….Since that "Assassination Incident" in Broad Daylight!
With this chapter, I think I can finally understand the symbolic meaning behind those highlighted words.
I mean, there was an "Assassination Incident" that led to her death over 10 years ago, but when was it stated that she was the target of said assassination attempt?
It is my belief and theory that one of the Fishmen/Mermen citizens, fueled with rage over the Tenryuubito's mistreatment of their race, (perhaps someone the knew was a sold as a slave), will attempt to kill them, but, in an utterly selfless act, Queen Otohime will take the bullet/kill shot, protecting the Tenryuubito and dying, ultimately driving home the point and her belief of accepting humanity as a whole, no matter what their crimes were in the past, for the better future of the next generation. Her dying to protect humans like the "Tenryuubito" will have caused a huge "uproar" on Fishman Island and also serve explain why the Citizens refuse to step on her picture and respect her so much now, considering how "annoying" they found her speeches to be in the past.
…..
[/hide]
That theory is actually pretty damn good. And Heartwarming to boot.I also like the theory and brought up a similar one.
We don't know if she really was that target at the assassination.
A tenryuubito would fit more as a target in this country. There hated by the merfolk more than from anybody else.
AND: Even with her CoO she couldn't avoid a bullet or stab that wasn't meant for her. CoO isn't useful anyway if you want to protect somebody from being killed.
So I'm in with this theory of yours! -
The translation of the chapter 624 by Cnet:
http://mangahelpers.com/t/cnet128/releases/29596Also, nothing about Arlong saying that he will take the slaves with him:
He only took the old members of his crew back.
Ok, now everything makes a lot more of sense. It seems with the new info that Arlong trying to recruit Hyozou and Decken happened BEFORE he was a member of the sun pirates, when he initially formed his Arlong pirates, and after beeing freed of Impel Down, he just took his old crew and parted ways with Jimbe, without returning to FI. Since he did not return to FI after beeing released, it also explains why Hoddie didn't joined his crew back then (Even though he already had the age to do it, he had no chance).
BTW, Am I the only one who is geting annoyed by all this mistranslations?? I mean, this is an awesome part of teh story, but with all the mistranslations it makes us think that is all confusing and bad written.
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wow, now I get it.
Arlong didn't lie. He only said "kyohi shinakya… ikirareta" ~ "if [someone] didn't refuse… [someone] would have lived". Basically there's no subject in this, so I assumed he meant FT -> "if [FT] didn't refuse… [FT] would have lived"
But this can also be interpreted as "if [some human] didn't refuse… [FT] would have lived."
So I guess it was just a misunderstanding.
Well, nice to know things are getting clear. Thanks for the better translations…
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i don't get it. whats wont binktopia/mangastream wont use cnet's translation. :|
Binktopia used to use Cnet's translations before they became part of mangastream… But mangastream already had a translator for One Piece (Molokidan), and, if I remember correctly, when the two groups united they said that Cnet's time available to translate didn't match mangastream's work and release schedule (mangastream released chapters 1 or 2 days before the other groups, but Cnet didn't have time available during these days at the time), and binktopia also wasn't very concerned about not having Cnet on board, since according to them to work with Cnet had its difficulties (he has several rules about how his translations should be used, and the group and him had some friction at times, in fact binktopia even used Naruhodo's translations in the last 3 or 4 chapter of OP the group released alone, but Molokidan took over after the groups' union)...
Because they're slow….?
He used to translate fast when he worked with scanlation groups (at the old times when the RAWs used to be online before the scanlations), but then all that ended, and without the responsibility of having to translate fast so that a group could use, he probably only does it when he feels like it or when he has more free time…
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I wonder about Hodi Jones masterplan is about:
1. In volume 62: "In exchange of this fantastic power, your life will be shaved away, but we all carry out our plans without fearing death". So the ES will be used for their main plan. As currently Hodi use the energy steroid MAINLY to inflict fear to human (he eat a lot of it). He don't use it during the fight at the castle and Zoro (originally, and afterwards only take one of it). So making all fishmen believe that they are the ultimate race is one of his plan.
2. The new Fishman Pirates intend to end the dark and cruel history of fishmen, by pulling down humans to the bottom of the sea, but it is not specific how.. He also said that to give lesson/educate human they will need Fishman Island. So is FI a weapon??
3. What "prophecy" is Hodi talking about? Did he know about the destruction of FI by strawhat?
4. He said to Zoro: "don't interfere, I'm going to take this kingdom". He don't intend to defeat / take revenge on Zoro? Shouldn't he mad to the Strawhat?When you think FI as a weapon to "pull human to the bottom of the sea" it is very logic for Luffy to destroy FI. I don;t think following Otohime dream is sufficient for Luffy to destroy FI.
Anyone have another theory?
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Sorry if this has been brought up before.
A friend of mine said that the government didn't actually intend for Buggy to be a Shichibukai. They're actually aware that Buggy isn't very powerful. The reason they made him a Shichibukai is because they are desperate to fill up the empty spaces, and because Buggy used to be with Roger, they know that the public, which is unaware of Buggy's true (or lack of) strength, will fear him because of that alone. Therefore, they plan to kick him out of the Shichibukai once they find a suitable replacement for him.
I think that it's also possible that he actually became very powerful during these two years.
What do you think?
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I've had some time to check MangaStream's translation. Have only done one page, but a lot of things there are wrong… So, this is what it says:
! 「〝グランドライン〟タイヨウの海賊団―」
Box: Grand Line, Sun Pirates– (Taiyou is a pun, actually. It means both "ocean" and "sun" in japanese. And by writing it in katakana Oda's somewhat hinting that it may mean both "Sun Pirates" and "Ocean Pirates." No need to explain it further, right?)
! 「『人間に献血を拒否され』」
Jinbee: "After being refused by humans a blood transfusion,"
「『タイヨウの海賊団船長フィッシャー・タイガー』」
Jinbee: "Fisher Tiger, Captain of the Sun Pirates,"
! 「『死亡』」
"died."
! 「・・・多くは違わんが・・・」
Jinbee: A lot's different here and...
! 「原因はと問われれば・・・」
Aladdin: If you were to ask me what was the reason,
! 「〝人間〟だからな・・・」
Aladdin: I'd say it's "humans."
! 「アーロンの奴が海軍にウソを・・・」
Jinbee: Arlong was the one, who lied to the marines...
! 「英雄タイガーは人間に裏切られ・・・人間への恨みで自ら血液を拒んだ」
Aladdin: Tiger was a hero betrayed by humans... Not only did he refuse blood transfusion owing to his resentment towards the humanity,
! 「さらに奴隷の過去もある―真実はもっと無残だ・・・」
He also was a slave in the past... Truth must be really rough for him...
! 「お頭の名誉も傷つける・・・」
Aladdin: This'd only do but hurt boss's honor, too.
! 「アーロンはそんな事吐くまい・・・」
Aladdin: There's no way Arlong'd have lied about such a thing...
! 「うむ・・・」
Jinbee: Umm...Oh, and a little extra. This's what Strawberry says:
! 「凶暴なのは」
Strawberry: The one especially ferocious
! 「〝ジンベエ〟です!!」
Strawberry: is "Jinbee!!"
! 「―アレの強さは尋常ではなかった」
Strawberry: It's strength was far from being anything common. -
Sorry if this has been brought up before.
A friend of mine said that the government didn't actually intend for Buggy to be a Shichibukai. They're actually aware that Buggy isn't very powerful. The reason they made him a Shichibukai is because they are desperate to fill up the empty spaces, and because Buggy used to be with Roger, they know that the public, which is unaware of Buggy's true (or lack of) strength, will fear him because of that alone. Therefore, they plan to kick him out of the Shichibukai once they find a suitable replacement for him.
I think that it's also possible that he actually became very powerful during these two years.
What do you think?
Idk I mean it's possible but I don't see the WG wasting their time on somebody they know wouldn't be a suitable shichibukai. I think between Impel Down and Marineford the WG witnessed his incredible luck (which they perceived as general badassery) and assumed he'd be a good fit.
As far as him getting really powerful in the last two years, as much as I'd love to see Buggy-sama taking names and legitimately kicking ass it just wouldn't be Buggy.
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@i:
(…)
As far as him getting really powerful in the last two years, as much as I'd love to see Buggy-sama taking names and legitimately kicking ass it just wouldn't be Buggy.Same opinion here, too.
After a time I see Buggy not as a physical strong fighter, but as a smart pirate with a lot of experience. And after his recent events another of his characteristics you can describe him as an opportunitist, who likes to take every single advantage of each situation. I also don't see him superstrong or powerful in the future, but on the other side he is somehow one of the smartest pirates in OP currently IMO.Smart and experienced argument:
-Loguetown, he knew bout Smoker (IDK if this was just in the Anime, but yeah, count it or not)
-Big Top, after Ace introduced himself to Buggys crew and fell asleep, Buggy knew that no one should mess with WB's people, he knew a lot bout WB for known reasons.Opportunist argument:
After the breakout from ID, Buggy was recognized by the marine as Roger's apprentice, that circumstance made him famous in front of the prisoners he freed. He wasn't just their ticket to freedom anymore, but also a hero who was @ PK's ship.
He took advantage from his followers.
Shanks' appearance, Buggy thought immediately bout his escape from MarineFord after his interactions with Shanks.And lets not forget a fact that unites both his opportunism with his cleverness:
Captain John's treasure mark/map:
He recognized it quickly that it was Captain John's mark/map AND he wanted to betray Luffy by promising to guide him to at least Lvl. 4. The betrayal was "ruined" by Luffy's "rushing temper". But we'll never know if Buggy could have escaped anyway if he left Luffy behind.
I admit that this post was a lil offtopic, so I M sorry! -
Oh, and a little extra. This's what Strawberry says:
「凶暴なのは」
Strawberry: The one especially ferocious「〝ジンベエ〟です!!」
Strawberry: is "Jinbee!!"「―アレの強さは尋常ではなかった」
Strawberry: It's strength was far from being anything common.Thanks for the translation.
So Strawberry is thinking of Jinbe/fishmen in general as animals? That's blunt and to the point…
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Sorry if this has been brought up before.
A friend of mine said that the government didn't actually intend for Buggy to be a Shichibukai. They're actually aware that Buggy isn't very powerful. The reason they made him a Shichibukai is because they are desperate to fill up the empty spaces, and because Buggy used to be with Roger, they know that the public, which is unaware of Buggy's true (or lack of) strength, will fear him because of that alone. Therefore, they plan to kick him out of the Shichibukai once they find a suitable replacement for him.
I don't know whether they'll kick him out, but he does have the reputation.
But something else about this chapter made me think he was offered the position. Arlong was freed because the Sun Pirates were pardoned when Jinbe became a Shichibukai. Now, most of buggy's crew now were already prisoners when they joined, but let's say they were already part of his crew. They would have been pardoned for their crimes once Buggy became a Shichibukai.
basically having Buggy accept the role helps the WG save face from the Impel Down breakout.
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I always thought Hyozo would kill, but the Celestial Dragon has his ace of spades on the table now.
–- Update From New Post Merge ---
@ultimateclima:
But something else about this chapter made me think he was offered the position. Arlong was freed because the Sun Pirates were pardoned when Jinbe became a Shichibukai. Now, most of buggy's crew now were already prisoners when they joined, but let's say they were already part of his crew. They would have been pardoned for their crimes once Buggy became a Shichibukai.
Sounds real probable.
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Edit:
But something else about this chapter made me think he was offered the position. Arlong was freed because the Sun Pirates were pardoned when Jinbe became a Shichibukai. Now, most of buggy's crew now were already prisoners when they joined, but let's say they were already part of his crew. They would have been pardoned for their crimes once Buggy became a Shichibukai.
basically having Buggy accept the role helps the WG save face from the Impel Down breakout.
Why did I miss this post interesting idea.
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@ultimateclima:
I don't know whether they'll kick him out, but he does have the reputation.
But something else about this chapter made me think he was offered the position. Arlong was freed because the Sun Pirates were pardoned when Jinbe became a Shichibukai. Now, most of buggy's crew now were already prisoners when they joined, but let's say they were already part of his crew. They would have been pardoned for their crimes once Buggy became a Shichibukai.
basically having Buggy accept the role helps the WG save face from the Impel Down breakout.
Why didn't this cross my mind, total mind-blow! Dame such a genius, this real explains better why buggy got a Shichibukai post(assumed) than my opinion that buggy new crew plus reputation installs fear into other pirates.
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Thanks for the translation.
So Strawberry is thinking of Jinbe/fishmen in general as animals? That's blunt and to the point…
No…..
Yeah, "are" means object instead of human, but it's not uncommon to use it towards a person.
There are people who refer to their wives by "are" lol -
When you think FI as a weapon to "pull human to the bottom of the sea" it is very logic for Luffy to destroy FI. I don;t think following Otohime dream is sufficient for Luffy to destroy FI.
Anyone have another theory?
Poseidon perhaps?
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Thanks for the translation.
So Strawberry is thinking of Jinbe/fishmen in general as animals? That's blunt and to the point…
im not master at japanses language but i think it was just a genderless word (unfortunately, in english a genderless word need to be either "their" or "it" or the translator simply assign a gender)
i'm a korean, not japanses. but most of the time in korean we use genderless pronoun. it's preety difficult when it comes to translations.
in this case, mangastream translator just decided to assign a gender to the genderless pronoun to make it sound logical to english readers.
since saying "it" would imply that fishman is an object, and not a human (which will give wrong impression)
and saying "their" will be wrong because than it'll become plural. -
No…..
Yeah, "are" means object instead of human, but it's not uncommon to use it towards a person.
There are people who refer to their wives by "are" lolOh okay.
Thanks for the clarification. -
This post is deleted!
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No…..
Yeah, "are" means object instead of human, but it's not uncommon to use it towards a person.
There are people who refer to their wives by "are" lolOh, right. Thanks and sorry for making confusion. I've taken it as plain 'are' pronoun without thinking twice about it. Thanks once again.
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@ultimateclima:
basically having Buggy accept the role helps the WG save face from the Impel Down breakout.
I don't really think so. Buggy mostly got fodder in his crew (IIRC). The real threats either joined Blackbeard or are doing their own thing.
Besides. Get caught > go to ID > break out > join pirate crew under WG approved pirate with a prestigious position, enjoy freedom and piracy. I'd say they still have egg on their face.
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Even if the criminals that did join buggy were mostly fodder from level 1 and level 2, they still consist largely of the majority that did manage to escape from impel down.
Reciting the ones that did manage to escape from there, comes into 3 different groups:
1. The ones in Luffy's breakout with Croc, Jinbei, Ivan and the "perverts" (gotta love comedy logic).
2. The Level 1-2 criminals buggy re-released and worked a riot in the upper levels.
3. The Level six criminals that survived Blackbeards "invitation".Since the third group escaped by some means we yet don't know which I am honestly still interested in, we are left with Buggy's group, the Level 3-5 prisoners and the "perverts", including the four mentioned. most of the prisoners died during the escape but I reckon Buggy's prisoners had the better odds since they had a head start with confused guards and a shorter distance to the exit. The ones backing Luffy up were tailed by Magellan, and quite clearly, few of them survived given how many times we saw them getting swallowed up in the toxin.
So the WG probably assumed with what they knew and had seen at Marineford, that the prisoners are following buggy, that the close to the whole total is with buggy, they'd save face like mentioned above.The level 6 criminals cant have been too many since I do place a blind trust here, that Blackbeards trial did result in more than 3/4 of the convicts having been killed.
But it interests me at the same time thinking back to it. How did these "Level 6" people get out from Impel Down? Unless the Marines decided to return where they were conveniently taken out by Blackbeard, they would have to swim across miles and miles on the Calm Belt ocean.
Im positive they did not return, so the strategy these level 6 criminals used after being knocked unconcious and escaping right as they wake up without any real transportation to get off the Island. I cant see them tagging along with Blackbeard to the nearest Island, but it is the closest idea I have right now.But getting back to it, the vast majority of the criminals that did escape Impel Down are positively with Buggy now and will remain with him. Buggy's position is quite favorable and I can see him making a short comeback in the story.
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@Dan:
I don't really think so. Buggy mostly got fodder in his crew (IIRC). The real threats either joined Blackbeard or are doing their own thing.
Depends on what you mean by fodder. Most of them are wanted criminals with bounties higher than Buggy.
Plus Whitebeard admitted fighting them, albeit along with the Marines, would be a hassle. If they were truly fodder then he wouldn't have said that.
But are they all top tier? Not even close. They're all not Shichibukai level 6 material here. Which at this stage is pretty much fodder, but still good enough for the rest of the world to be a threat.
Besides. Get caught > go to ID > break out > join pirate crew under WG approved pirate with a prestigious position, enjoy freedom and piracy. I'd say they still have egg on their face.
Having a bunch of criminals run "free" sounds worse than having a bunch of criminals "work for you" or under you. And I'm not saying this is the only reason either or this washed the WG of their stupidity. I'm just saying this could have played a part in them making their decision.
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I would say the people following Buggy would be people who need someone to tell them what to attack - sure they are strong but strength alone does not mean good leadership.
As much as I might dislike Buggy he certainly seems to have enough charisma to have them following him - besides Buggy doesn't need to fight if his reputation is high enough - being government endorsed would also add to that. That said I am certain he will have improved his strength in the 2 years - of course the SH's can beat him again but then well SH's are going to be beating a lot of top names now. -
^
Given his position before the timeskip, it would be fair to assume he's come quite far on his reputation alone. Oddly enough, Buggy seems to be the closer relation with our historical Blackbeard than the one we have here in One Piece.
Our Historical Blackbeard relied on looks and reputation to scare his opponents into surrendering, and pulled various stunts to reinforce the reputation. Much like Buggy came to realize the power of his reputation, he probably will have a new look to reinforce it along with new tricks and explosives.
Not that any of this might end up giving him enough of a power up to be a danger, it just makes him a more suited image to intimidate other pirates. Reputation, possible looks and creative development of explosives. Our historic Blackbeard. :PFun: Hawk-eye's impression upon seeing Buggy as a Shichibukai.
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Alright, I feel dumb for asking this. But what's with the Buggy being a Shichibukai talk? Did I miss something or is this a theory?
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WG now knows that Buggy was one of the Roger pirates and there was a letter sent by the WG to Buggy.
Do I need to say more?
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Alright, I feel dumb for asking this. But what's with the Buggy being a Shichibukai talk? Did I miss something or is this a theory?
this bat
http://mangastream.com/read/one_piece/50719690/13
http://www.mangafox.com/manga/one_piece/v58/c593/19.html -
this bat
http://mangastream.com/read/one_piece/50719690/13
http://www.mangafox.com/manga/one_piece/v58/c593/19.htmlOh no wonder I forgot about that. Lol. That was a while ago.