Arlong obviously sold Otohime.
Chapter 624: "Queen Otohime" Discussion
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After reading this chapter a second time, it sounds a lot like Luffy will want to destroy the island so that the Fishmen won't have a choice but to go out and explore the world. Fishman Island may at this point seem like a security blanket for the fishmen in the eyes of Luffy and if he destroys it, then that security is lost, and they'll all have to fight for their rights to live up above.
i like this idea to i though of it. i also hope that soemthings happens and the gate thaconnects Paradise an New World will fall apart after the straw hats have entered the next half. things would get bad about the world goverment
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@Aka:
i like this idea to i though of it. i also hope that soemthings happens and the gate thaconnects Paradise an New World will fall apart after the straw hats have entered the next half. things would get bad about the world goverment
And why would it make sense if this 'gate' gets destroyed or anything like that? If it's only about the WG, then it would be pretty pointless since the Marine HQ are in the New World now.
As for the chapter, it was yet another nice chapter. And bit by bit all the expected things happen. Looking forward for next week's chapter.
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『人間に献血を拒否されタイヨウの海賊団船長フィッシャータイガー死亡』
-> rejected BY humans a blood tranfusion, sun pirate captain fisher tiger died.
and that's why jinbe said it's a lie. but arlong didn't lie, it's the newspaper.
Edit: And the alladin says:
アラディン「英雄タイガーは人間に裏切られ・・・人間への恨みで自ら血液を拒んだ」「さらに奴隷の過去もある真実はもっと無惨だ・・・・」「お頭の名誉も傷つける・・・」「アーロンはそんな事吐くまい・・・」
-> The hero Tiger, betrayed by humans… his resentment towards humans made he himself rejected the blood transfusion. More than that, there's also the fact that he was a slave himself, makes it more a tragedy. Ruining the boss' honor... Arlong told such a lie...
damn, I can be a better translator than naruhodo... and my Japanese isn't that good!
Edit 2: What the mermolks said about FT:
民「無理です!!オトヒメ様!もう無理です!!!」「あらゆる種族の奴隷達を差別なく助けたあのタイガーさんを人間達は見捨てたんだ!」「どう解り合うんです!?」
->People: Impossible!! Otohime-sama! It's no longer possible!!! Even Tiger-san, who freed the slaves without discriminating the race, those humans turned their back on him! How could we have mutual understanding with them!?
5百万 -> 5 millions.
FI is a big city, don't forget that those people live underwater too, so it's a crowded place. But not as big as having 50 millions people!!!
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『人間に献血を拒否されタイヨウの海賊団船長フィッシャータイガー死亡』
-> rejected BY humans a blood tranfusion, sun pirate captain fisher tiger died.
and that's why jinbe said it's a lie. but arlong didn't lie, it's the newspaper.
Edit: And the alladin says:
アラディン「英雄タイガーは人間に裏切られ・・・人間への恨みで自ら血液を拒んだ」「さらに奴隷の過去もある真実はもっと無惨だ・・・・」「お頭の名誉も傷つける・・・」「アーロンはそんな事吐くまい・・・」
-> The hero Tiger, betrayed by humans… his resentment towards humans made he himself rejected the blood transfusion. More than that, there's also the fact that he was a slave himself, makes it more a tragedy. Ruining the boss' honor... Arlong told such a lie...
damn, I can be a better translator than naruhodo... and my Japanese isn't that good!
Edit 2: What the mermolks said about FT:
民「無理です!!オトヒメ様!もう無理です!!!」「あらゆる種族の奴隷達を差別なく助けたあのタイガーさんを人間達は見捨てたんだ!」「どう解り合うんです!?」
->People: Impossible!! Otohime-sama! It's no longer possible!!! Even Tiger-san, who freed the slaves without discriminating the race, those humans turned their back on him! How could we have mutual understanding with them!?
5百万 -> 5 millions.
FI is a big city, don't forget that those people live underwater too, so it's a crowded place. But not as big as having 50 millions people!!!
Thanks man, it's always good to know there's a new japanese reader in here….and better than naruhodo too....
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Thanks Sagippio, you cleared up the biggest head-scratchers in the the chapter.
Interesting twist that it was the newspaper that lied. It strongly implies that the human-populated World Government killed him by refusing to save his life, while the true story of suicide on Tiger's part in preferring death over human blood transfusion would likely have made him sound like a rebel martyr plus it removes the fact of the Sun Pirates successfully capturing a Navy vessel.
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So it seems that maybe the government wanted to save face after he freed the slaves by spinning the story more in their favor.
And, as stated above, it will help prevent him from becoming a martyr (not that he isn't one for the separation, though).
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It seem liek manga stream did not make an error about the population of Fishmen Island. I took the SS from the one piece wikia -
『人間に献血を拒否されタイヨウの海賊団船長フィッシャータイガー死亡』
-> rejected BY humans a blood tranfusion, sun pirate captain fisher tiger died.
and that's why jinbe said it's a lie. but arlong didn't lie, it's the newspaper.
Edit: And the alladin says:
アラディン「英雄タイガーは人間に裏切られ・・・人間への恨みで自ら血液を拒んだ」「さらに奴隷の過去もある真実はもっと無惨だ・・・・」「お頭の名誉も傷つける・・・」「アーロンはそんな事吐くまい・・・」
-> The hero Tiger, betrayed by humans… his resentment towards humans made he himself rejected the blood transfusion. More than that, there's also the fact that he was a slave himself, makes it more a tragedy. Ruining the boss' honor... Arlong told such a lie...
damn, I can be a better translator than naruhodo... and my Japanese isn't that good!
Edit 2: What the mermolks said about FT:
民「無理です!!オトヒメ様!もう無理です!!!」「あらゆる種族の奴隷達を差別なく助けたあのタイガーさんを人間達は見捨てたんだ!」「どう解り合うんです!?」
->People: Impossible!! Otohime-sama! It's no longer possible!!! Even Tiger-san, who freed the slaves without discriminating the race, those humans turned their back on him! How could we have mutual understanding with them!?
5百万 -> 5 millions.
FI is a big city, don't forget that those people live underwater too, so it's a crowded place. But not as big as having 50 millions people!!!
@Sagippio Thank you for your Translation. This helps to clear up many things.
http://screensnapr.com/e/2ohO1d.png
It seem liek manga stream did not make an error about the population of Fishmen Island. I took the SS from the one piece wikiaWhy would you trust a wiki??? Whoever edited the article based said edit on the bad translation from MS.
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[qimg]http://screensnapr.com/e/2ohO1d.png[/qimg]
It seem liek manga stream did not make an error about the population of Fishmen Island. I took the SS from the one piece wikiaYou just contradicted yourself.
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@Sagippio Thank you for your Translation. This helps to clear up many things.
Why would you trust a wiki??? Whoever edited the article based said edit on the bad translation from MS.
That may be true. But most of time time the wikia has very accurate information. But who know's
@Mr.:
You just contradicted yourself.
How am i contradicting my self?
MS said population is 50M
WIkia say it 50M too.
No contradiction. Unless i dunt get what you mean by that -
People who know Japanese better than MS's translator and a good portion of the fanbase that likely edited the wikia say it's 5 million. End of debate.
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Odds that the Tenryuubito in question is Rosward-Sei?
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『人間に献血を拒否されタイヨウの海賊団船長フィッシャータイガー死亡』
-> rejected BY humans a blood tranfusion, sun pirate captain fisher tiger died.
and that's why jinbe said it's a lie. but arlong didn't lie, it's the newspaper.
Edit: And the alladin says:
アラディン「英雄タイガーは人間に裏切られ・・・人間への恨みで自ら血液を拒んだ」「さらに奴隷の過去もある真実はもっと無惨だ・・・・」「お頭の名誉も傷つける・・・」「アーロンはそんな事吐くまい・・・」
-> The hero Tiger, betrayed by humans… his resentment towards humans made he himself rejected the blood transfusion. More than that, there's also the fact that he was a slave himself, makes it more a tragedy. Ruining the boss' honor... Arlong told such a lie...
damn, I can be a better translator than naruhodo… and my Japanese isn't that good!
Edit 2: What the mermolks said about FT:
民「無理です!!オトヒメ様!もう無理です!!!」「あらゆる種族の奴隷達を差別なく助けたあのタイガーさんを人間達は見捨てたんだ!」「どう解り合うんです!?」
->People: Impossible!! Otohime-sama! It's no longer possible!!! Even Tiger-san, who freed the slaves without discriminating the race, those humans turned their back on him! How could we have mutual understanding with them!?
5百万 -> 5 millions.
FI is a big city, don't forget that those people live underwater too, so it's a crowded place. But not as big as having 50 millions people!!!
So I guess it's not like China or India in OP. hurr hurr
And TBH, Naruhodo probably rushed through the trans because he had a lot to do in very little time.
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And TBH, Naruhodo probably rushed through the trans because he had a lot to do in very little time.
Like what? the only series he translates for MS is One Piece, correct?
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the correct translation makes things more confusing though.
Because if WG really gave false informations on purpose, It's natural to say that they intended to widen the gap between humans and sea-folks, which is make no sense because later they invited Jinbei for a shichibukai seat to make a better relationship with the sea-folks.
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the correct translation makes things more confusing though.
Because if WG really gave false informations on purpose, It's natural to say that they intended to widen the gap between humans and sea-folks, which is make no sense because later they invited Jinbei for a shichibukai seat to make a better relationship with the sea-folks.
Uhm, not really. It was reported by Strawberry that the most fearsome of all was Jinbe so the WG took the initiative to invite him to join the Shichibukai. And what is the purpose of those 7? Isn't it to be a threat to other aspiring pirates in exchange to some privileges that the WG proposed? So the invitation was not in anyways for the betterment of Human-Fishman relationship.
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@Dan:
Like what? the only series he translates for MS is One Piece, correct?
I found that he translates for other mangas for other scanlators, but he gets complaints all the time.
I recant my sympathy for Naruhodo. He just sucks. He's rushing his assignments.
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[qimg]http://screensnapr.com/e/2ohO1d.png[/qimg]
It seem liek manga stream did not make an error about the population of Fishmen Island. I took the SS from the one piece wikiaCan I just assume that ur new and not some old member with a new account? If ure a new member, then some words of wisdom : Arlong Park is more trustworthy AND reliable than any OP wiki u can find.
u can thank Aohige, Stephen, Greg n bunch of other great contributors for this
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and that is why i will always come to arlong park after reading a chapter to check if there is an update to the translation..
alot of dedicated One Piece lover here.. -
So it
s finally confirmed that mangastream was wrong and iam still able to count. 50 million sure sounded like way too much. But we shouldn
t be to harsh on them, because they providing us a really quick chapter and so we can`t expect a perfect first version.
I guess most of us are anyways giving the chapter a second and third read a few days later, so the version at this point should be the one where bigger mistakes are a shame. -
I know that we've established that Arlong was released 11 years ago and Otohime died 10 years ago but I still can't help but think that Arlong will somehow be involved in the queen's death. To me, there would be no point to the end of this flashback if he somehow wasn't involved because Jinbei started the flashback because he was telling the story of how Arlong was released to East Blue. If he isn't part of the assassination, I don't see why that part of the flashback should be included in this flashback, imo, this flashback should be the story of Arlong and why he was sent and unless he wasn't part of Otohime's assassination I don't see why it should be part of this flashback.
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The people of FI really don't know what they want.
They didn't want to support Otohime with her petition, but neither did they want to step on her Fumie. What a cowardly species!
I also don't believe that the population of FI is 50mio. How can a lil more than 1000 signs change anything of the country. That's like 0,002% of the population. A mistranslation 4 sure!
And I don't get that about Arlong lying. He just didn't tell everything, but how can the fishmen say that humans refused to give Tiger their blood when the newspaper already wrote the truth that Tiger declined it. A very wishy washy thing again. And thats how misunderstandings in that manga are developed.
Is there an AoHige translation anywhere?
Of course this chap was a lil predictable, Jinbe was a shichibukai from the start, how should Oda tell this fact unpredictable?
A FB is sometimes predictable, because we already know things from the present, so we know how some things happened in the past, but its exciting how the puzzle parts fit together in that story. OP is an assfull of mosaic-window that needs to be built together.
Chap was informative in a few ways. We know now what the messenger bat of the WG is for (although some people here knew what meaning the bat had, if you count 2 + 2 together). Arlong was already @ ID and thx to Jinbe being a shichibukai he was freed from there. That was quite surprising. When I read last chap I thought Arlong would make sum kind of deal with Kizaru.
I wonder if that question will be answered somewhen. -
I think the 50 million and 5 million translation is wrong. The right amount should be about 600 BILLION!!!!!!!
Now that I've got that out of my system, I dont think Arlong would play any part in the "assassination". True that the flashback should end when Arlong went his own way, but we might as well finish and wrap this up or else we'll be left hanging on that matter. And I do believe thats how Oda will do it
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Is there an AoHige translation anywhere?
.Well not exactly Aohige but better than Naruhodo anytime:
http://apforums.net/showthread.php?t=32823&p=2235922&viewfull=1#post2235922 -
After reading this chapter a second time, it sounds a lot like Luffy will want to destroy the island so that the Fishmen won't have a choice but to go out and explore the world. Fishman Island may at this point seem like a security blanket for the fishmen in the eyes of Luffy and if he destroys it, then that security is lost, and they'll all have to fight for their rights to live up above.
Yeah, its a possibility that Luffy destroys FI on purpose. Remember the chap 499, where Camie is @ Sabondy park. She told Luffy that it is her dream to look down from the giant wheel high in the sky.
IF Luffy really destroys FI, I am sure that he will remember this dialogue with Camie. Just like he remembered sum things b4 beating Lucci.
And now after Otohime's speech, Oda wants to tell us that it'd be better 4 the fishfolk to live together with the humans.
Damn, I wonder how this arc ends.
If FI really gets its destruction I also wonder how BigMam reacts, if she hears that her candy factory is history.
THX, Josl!
So the fishmen @ FI read the newspaper and took it for granted. Arlong told the truth, but the WG lied bout all again to save their asses. I'm glad that this is solved. WG acts like evrytime! ;) -
Mangastream just released some fixes to this week's chapter (which seems to be a weekly thing, lately). 5,000,000 is the correct amount. More importantly, it makes it clear that Arlong lied by saying Fisher Tiger was denied a transfusion by humans, and that was the story passed on in the newspaper. Makes much more sense.
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I cant believe, that so many people are eager to believe, that destroying Fishman Island and forcing all the fishman and merefolk to live on the surface, will somehow magically dispel all the hate and distrust between the species. Frankly, it would be quite the opposite.
Just consider: Out of the blue a band of humans decide that they know, what is the best for a huge nation and their century-old issues: To completely destroy said nation and thereby erasing one of the most magnificent spots in the world, an unique undersea ecological system, and oh yeah, the housings and the freaking living-space of 5.000.000 people. And to force them to live in an hostile environment.
Even at best, this would most likely mean, that the fishman would only search for a new habitable underwater spot or an uninhabited island to have their peace (and good luck finding an uninhabited island with room for 5 million people). A more realistical scenario would be, that suddenly millions and millions of frightened, homeless, desperate and possible enraged (remember that humans destroyed their homes) beings are forced upon the surface islands. You could name the consequences: a refugee crisis of unprecedented scale, total anarchy and maybe wars and yugoslavia-style ethnic cleansings.
All in all this sounds very much like a supervillain plan and not much what a shounen protagonist should be doing. And in every case, its always dangerous when one single human thinks to know what is the best for millions of people, while totally disregarding their opinions and thoughts on the matter.
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I don't get the Destorying the island as a good idea theory either. Hopefully if it does come to that it makes sense by then. This arc seems to have a lot of components in it that make it for being a plot twist's paradise. Still have to really deal with that could easily change every theory we've come up with.
Anywho. Man I really want Arlong to show back up, stronger than ever~.
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You're right. One person can't decide what's good for millions, but IMO Luffy isn't a person who thinks through all the possible scenarios. Just lets see how the story continues.
And: if you look at the giant ship @ the fishman district, you know how the population could be evacuated. I also think that the fishmen's ancestors came down to the ocean floor by that vast ship (lets see what Robin will find out bout FI's history).
That ship is so huge it looks like its built for the kind of Wadatsumi's size. Even he looks tiny next to that ship. It could inhabit 5mio normal sized persons easily. -
I know that we've established that Arlong was released 11 years ago and Otohime died 10 years ago but I still can't help but think that Arlong will somehow be involved in the queen's death. To me, there would be no point to the end of this flashback if he somehow wasn't involved because Jinbei started the flashback because he was telling the story of how Arlong was released to East Blue. If he isn't part of the assassination, I don't see why that part of the flashback should be included in this flashback, imo, this flashback should be the story of Arlong and why he was sent and unless he wasn't part of Otohime's assassination I don't see why it should be part of this flashback.
In this very chapter Aladdin was talking about how they may have to go stop Arlong themselves. Well, even after 9 years they still did nothing. Why?
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Is it wrong to like Arlong more than I did before ?
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Thanks Kiavik for the script. I'll do my own translation version which'll include everything I'll manage to make out of it.
As for Fishman Island's population, you're right, it's 5 million. -
Mangastream just released some fixes to this week's chapter (which seems to be a weekly thing, lately). 5,000,000 is the correct amount. More importantly, it makes it clear that Arlong lied by saying Fisher Tiger was denied a transfusion by humans, and that was the story passed on in the newspaper. Makes much more sense.
I dn't get it. In the one I'm reading Arlong still says " if he didn't refuse it, he could have lived" before the humans brought upon his death panel.
Why is saying Tiger was denied blood by humans less honor tarnishing then telling the truth without dwelling into the reasons why he refused? Or did Arlong say that to make humans look even more evil than fishmen?
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I dn't get it. In the one I'm reading Arlong still says " if he didn't refuse it, he could have lived" before the humans brought upon his death panel.
Why is saying Tiger was denied blood by humans less honor tarnishing then telling the truth without dwelling into the reasons why he refused? Or did Arlong say that to make humans look even more evil than fishmen?
I think Page 3 is still mistranslated, unfortunately. But Page 4 makes it clear that the official report is that Fisher was denied the transfusion instead of the other way around.
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I see :(
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Why is saying Tiger was denied blood by humans less honor tarnishing then telling the truth without dwelling into the reasons why he refused?
The way I see it, the honor tarnishing thing Aladdin is talking about is the fact that Tiger was a slave, and not the refusal of blood.
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Yes Asm but Arlong could have said the truth without specifying the reasons why Tiger refused the blood,just put it on the we hate humans something like this (Unless they have lie detectors 8). I struggle to see what was gained if he lied. Actually has it been confirmed that page 3 was also mistranslated? otherwise it could simply be that the Sun pirates assumed it was Arlong who lied when he did tell the truth without going into details. But Kizaru and co,the newspaper turned it upside down.
edit @asm:
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I can't go into too much details without knowing what's really being said in the chapter.
And yeah, Naruhodo isn't living up to his name.
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Is it wrong to like Arlong more than I did before ?
No, he is a complex character that you can both hate and feel sorry for at the same time.
We know early on he had a childhood dream of living on the surface. But knowing how the way the human world is structured, that dream is unattainable by fishmen, even those as strong as Arlong. It is not just the sheer power that fishmen are fighting against, it is the major of humans prejudice towards fishmen based on looks and the stories. The Goverment does nothing to change this view, if fact they allow the enslaving of fishmen and mermen. By not recognizing Fishman Island as part of the world- the Goverment keeps the fishmen populace trapped beneath sea- with no wayto intermingle with the human populace.
It is nobel that Tiger and Otohime want to prove to humans through peaceful means that fishmen are not the monsters, but the deck is stacked against them. Humans hated and feared the fishmen long before Arlong became a pirate. They hate fishmen for what they are, not who they are. Fishmen at best are treated as second class citizens. How messed up it that the fishmen have to prove their worth to the humans? Who decided that humans are superior to every other race, and those races must bow down to human rule?
It is no wonder that Arlong has an inferiority complex that he is masking with his superior attitude. He can never freely live his dream because of what he is- a fishman. He had to choose: he could accept human rule and never go above the waves (thus giving up his dream), or challenge human “authority” a go above the waves in attempt to live his dream and be labeled a pirate. Much like Tiger, he saw all the horrible things do to each other and fishmen- it is easy to see why Arlong early on thinks fishmen are superior. Who doesn't hate slavers, or racist, or oppressive governments? Over the course of time, Arlong himself became a racist- just like Jimbei and Tiger. It was hard for any of them to overlook humanity cruelty.
During his time with the Sun Pirates, Arlong was right about the dangers of bringing a human aboard and the blood transfusion. Koala herself was innocent; but Arlong was correct to distrust the situation. Human have shown time and time again that they are willing to sacrifice their own kind to achieve their goals. Far as the blood- it Arlong twisted sense, the humans did deny Tiger the transfusion. Tiger would not take the blood because he didn’t want human taint flowing in his veins. If human were good people, Tiger would have accepted the blood.
The sad and ironic thing with Arlong is that he become that which he hates, yet is still never free. He himself become a brutal slaver of humans and denies them of their dreams. He builds Arlong Park modeled after Sabondy as a haven for fishmen- but it is a cruel sham. Arlong is still not free- he still lives in the same world of his childhood- fishmen are not accepted above the waves- Arlong Park was built on brute force, slavery, and bribery.
Ironical, if Luffy does manage to change FI for the better, it would be the first time Luffy has helped a villain obtain their dream; first by smashing the fake one, then help to establish the real one.
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It's sorta a reason I feel they may bring back Arlong. Pretty much all villians they encountered got a little side story as to where they wound up. I don't think they ever showed Arlong locked up. Just taken away. So he could have gotten loose at some point. It would be funny if he became a major villian again. Oda seems to like redemption of some sort in his villians, and Arlong never got that.
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Is it wrong to like Arlong more than I did before ?
not really, I do like him more after this chapter.
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Iam rly looking forward to read again the whole Arlong-arc in a few weeks with having the current chapters as a new base.
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Why is naruhodo still doing the translations when it ends up full of mistakes?
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Let's wait for better translation, shall we?
The way I see it, the honor tarnishing thing Aladdin is talking about is the fact that Tiger was a slave, and not the refusal of blood.
So far from my own reading of the script provided by Kiavik, Arlong told the marine the truth, that if FT didn't refuse the transfusion, he would survive. And then Arlong said it was humans who drove FT to do such thing.
But the newspaper says that FT was refused the transfusion by humans. So it's the newspaper (WG) who lies. [In the script it is written "ningen ni kenketsu wo kyohi sare" (was refused blood transfusion by humans). "sare" is usually passive form, though sometimes used in polite form. I assumed it's in passive form (to be refused/denied/rejected).]
Aladdin (I think) is talking about FT's last will of trying not to be hateful towards humans, that just like Otohime, he also thinks that fishfolks, merfolks and humans should live in peace. FT even tried to love them but failed. Aladdin then said that it was because FT was betrayed by humans (that he couldn't accept blood from humans), and that FT's past of being a slave makes the situation more tragic. Saying things (the "lie") that FT asked (newspaper's readers might even think he begged) for blood transfusion, when he didn't want to, and then rejected, would really tarnish FT's honor.
Well, that's what I get from the script. Hope someone (Aohige?) will clarify this soon.
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Why is naruhodo still doing the translations when it ends up full of mistakes?
Because there's probably no one else.
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I meant no one else who wants to work for free.
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Why is naruhodo still doing the translations when it ends up full of mistakes?
Because he's fast.
Why doesn't an editor catch all his mistakes?
BTW, Shanghai, the most populated city in the world has 14 million people. (Cited http://www.nationsonline.org/oneworld/bigcities.htm)
50 million would be people stacked on top of one another on the sidewalks.
But, still, FI would have in one city, near the population of all of Libya (6.4 million, citing wikipedia).
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…daaaaaaang Johnny and Yosaku got buff.
It's kinda like something I saw in the trailer for the Captain America movie...