It's not that hard to plan the ending in advance. You plan the end and then when you get to it, you add the minor changes your shitty writing up to that point demanded.
Bart Simpson Thread XI: The Movie - The Manga Adaption - The Animation
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Minor changes: COUGH Kaguya COUGH
Need to somehow hit that 700 chapters mark.
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@Monkey:
It's pretty much undeniable that the Kishi who wrote Part 2 was no longer an artist, and just a guy doing a job for money.
He lost control of the plot in the Sasuke Pot arc (a terrible arc as well) and never got back on the horse.The degradation of the art style into bland nothingness alone is proof of this.
Just out of curiosity, did you enjoy the fights in that Arc?
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Finally have read the whole Rock lee manga. Very funny and enjoyable. But somehow I felt like it had more character development than Naruto had the past 300 chapters… Also, was it just me or was the romance aspect handled way better than in Naruto as well?
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Just out of curiosity, did you enjoy the fights in that Arc?
No, and unlike most of ya'll I was there when they all first happened.
So they actually got worse later when after a year or so of thinking Kishi had dramatically ended Chouji's life…it was bullshit.
Oh that and the same wait to find out the arc was largely wasting time for a plot point as simple as "Sasuke leaves". -
Naruto is over, come on! Let's close this shop! xd
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Well, now that it's finaly over, and the smell of rooting corpse is mostly gone, I'd say that while I'd change a lot, if I knew that it was going to be a drag of 700 chapters, and was extremely unsatisfying, I'm ok with naruto now that it doesn't matter. It can go to the nebulous dubious quality manga of old that are no more.
Kind of when that anoying old aunt dies, and you try to remember the good times only.
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Wasn't the Byakugan stronger than the Sharingan? poor Byakugan was forgotten as soon as it was mentioned.
Byakugan eyes don't have to be recharged
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@Monkey:
No, and unlike most of ya'll I was there when they all first happened.
So they actually got worse later when after a year or so of thinking Kishi had dramatically ended Chouji's life…it was bullshit.
Oh that and the same wait to find out the arc was largely wasting time for a plot point as simple as "Sasuke leaves".Funny, I was also around when they happened. And I still think the Neji vs Kidomaru fight is one of the best shonen fights I've ever seen up to a certain point.
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Byakugan eyes don't have to be recharged
Nor do they drive people emotionally insane (SUPPOSEDLY)
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Nor do they drive people emotionally insane (SUPPOSEDLY)
Well in tandem with the Gentle Fist Style they can make a character into an A-Class troll.
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Re reading in the forest of death right now and I can't believe that Sasuke used to be "cool".
What happened to him?
Also it's a shame what happened to the art, I used to love it so much but it lost of it's heart and Kishimoto just some of his skill somehow. -
@James:
Finally have read the whole Rock lee manga. Very funny and enjoyable. But somehow I felt like it had more character development than Naruto had the past 300 chapters… Also, was it just me or was the romance aspect handled way better than in Naruto as well?
I can relate to this.
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Re reading in the forest of death right now and I can't believe that Sasuke used to be "cool".
What happened to him?
Also it's a shame what happened to the art, I used to love it so much but it lost of it's heart and Kishimoto just some of his skill somehow.Is being a Emo is no longer a fad? I always failed to understand how so many liked the emo-suke… and yeah there were fans that said they like his dark-sulking-emo --excuse me, I meant brooding---ways
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Is being a Emo is no longer a fad? I always failed to understand how so many liked the emo-suke… and yeah there were fans that said they like his dark-sulking-emo --excuse me, I meant brooding---ways
He wasn't exactly always emo and brooding though, he smiled and got flustered,made some jokes and insulted Sakura, wasn't the best at everything and would still get punked and show emotion, and he showed that he cared about his cell mates and would do cool thing's.
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He wasn't exactly always emo and brooding though, he smiled and got flustered,made some jokes and insulted Sakura, wasn't the best at everything and would still get punked and show emotion, and he showed that he cared about his cell mates and would do cool thing's.
Doesn't matter if he really was or wasn't emo. You know how fandoms can be, even if something does fit or isn't real, if the fans think so, then they keep saying its so. Its how the teen-fans saw him as such and yeah there were some who called him that, even made fanart.
Others called him that as a joke, saying he failed at being emo as well.
Emo-Sasuke is like Zoro/Sanji yaoi, it is not canon but don't try telling the fans that. :ninja:My point I is that many teens (and preteen) that thought they were Goth or were into emo, were fans of Sasuke, when it started to fade some, so did his popularity …. that is as the fans grew up they saw how much the character sucked
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I guess with recent revelations, we can retroactively claim that Sasuke wasn't actually emo. He was just showing the first few symptoms of love cancer.
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If Sasuke was emo he certainly was the worse emo I've ever seen.
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lol I know, I always laughed when I came across a sauce-fan (sauce is intentional) that said "I love how Sasuke-kun is so emo! I just want to hug him and make him smile!"
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....... yes, someone really did say that. And of course that was before he was shown to smile in the manga. I think it was during the Wave arc, just after Haku make Sasuke a pincushion and he was thinking he couldn't die, he still needed to kill that man (his big bro) -
What makes a person an emo?(real question)
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^bottomless stupidity?
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What makes a person an emo?(real question)
^bottomless stupidity?
lol, good question, seems it changes according to who is asking/answering/time.
Back in the 90s, it was people who were into Goth music, liked the darker side of music/movies (horror, sadness ect), wore dark clothes.
We can than many Goths for the romantic vampire teen books. Sure they weren't the only ones, but they were a big part of the franchise in the early days.
YEah in some years, being emo didn't mean you didn't smile or love, its was the "bitter or small smile" & the "tragic love" crap thoughTheir makeup was light & dark. Meaning in stores like Hot Topic, you could find white foundation along with the black lipstick/eye shadow
As new decades go by, the definition would change to fit the new times.
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In the 90s, many non-goths would say that emo and goth went hand in hand, but others would deny it.
But beign emo didn't mean it was exclusively goth though,
Thankfully, since there are some good goth music I liked (just never dressed in the fashion :P -
Lydia from Beetlguese was I feel the first sort of main stream emo girl. She's that middle upper class kid that likes the eerie and kinda has these romantic ideals about it. She even has sorta laughably weird dialog that most humans wouldn't say out loud. Like "My life is a dark room".
Goth I sorta thought went a litte further. But I think South Park had an episode on both sub cultures.
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Lydia from Beetlguese was I feel the first sort of main stream emo girl. She's that middle upper class kid that likes the eerie and kinda has these romantic ideals about it. She even has sorta laughably weird dialog that most humans wouldn't say out loud. Like "My life is a dark room".
Goth I sorta thought went a litte further. But I think South Park had an episode on both sub cultures.
Your example is the first thing that comes to my mind when I see/hear the word "emo". as for "goth", I think of Shannon from the Obscure series.
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Man, the fanart stuff sure is great though. <3
So many beautiful Naruhina wedding and family pictures and ofc just Naruto and Hinata being together happily, man Kishi why didn't you show us that stuff in the manga? D: -
Well I guess I'll wait for some ntr stuff where the narusaku fans get what their want and all the naruhina guys get salty, muhahahah. I just don't care for any character in this series anymore, lol.
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With the ending of the series, I feel it is time to express the highs and the lows. Your favorite and least favorite moments, fights, jutsus, characters, Seven Swordsman, Kage, Akatsuki member, eye,…
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Loved the first Rasengan pre-shippuden, back when cool jutsus required time & effort to be mastered. also the introduction of akatsuki at the very end of part I with itachi and kisame showing up at the leaf, all mysterious and bad ass (not to mention powerful!). Sasori & deidara fights and 4-tails naruto vs. orochimaru (the better fights, although 4 tails was already a bit weird and heading towards the "pew pew laser nuke jutsu" direction) were my highs in shippuden. maybe 5 kage arc as well. Hated that we only got to see so little in terms of fights from the konoha 11, which also only represents a tiny itsy bit of all the missed opportunities in this manga. missed opportunities being the key word and my main problem with the series (not even going to mention bad writing, surely others will do the part)
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(not even going to mention bad writing, surely others will do the part)
Eventhough it's beating a dead horse at this point.
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Eventhough it's beating a dead horse at this point.
Sure is, but this thread has a tendency to bash on kishimito's writing in particular.
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On the goth stuff:
Goth is about enjoying and immersing yourself in the dark sides of culture, with all the spooky shit and leaning towards nihilistic attitudes.
Emo is more about broadcasting self-centered negativity. It is self-pity, self-hate and the desire to project that onto others.
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@Monkey:
No, and unlike most of ya'll I was there when they all first happened.
So they actually got worse later when after a year or so of thinking Kishi had dramatically ended Chouji's life…it was bullshit.
Oh that and the same wait to find out the arc was largely wasting time for a plot point as simple as "Sasuke leaves".I can understand that in Chouji´s case. The only thing that made the fight somewhat decent was the threat of his death, and the fact that it actually seemed like he died, but Neji´s?
I agree with the bold part though.
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@James:
Man, the fanart stuff sure is great though. <3
So many beautiful Naruhina wedding and family pictures and ofc just Naruto and Hinata being together happily, man Kishi why didn't you show us that stuff in the manga? D:Because he wanted to kick the Sakura shippers in the balls.
No seriously though, even though I care squat for shipping characters, it would have been nice to soften the blow by gradually showing progression of shipping rather than SURPRISE here's one. Yeah I know that leads to suspense by revealing it in the last minute. But yeah Kishi was certainly relentless by going "HERE IT IS: THE PAIR UPS!" and just throwing it out there.
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Well I guess I'll wait for some ntr stuff where the narusaku fans get what their want and all the naruhina guys get salty, muhahahah. I just don't care for any character in this series anymore, lol.
You are so cruel.
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Just been reading Naruto from the beginning, and Zabuza is so amateurish as a ninja. How in the hell the Jounin Ninja that even is called Silent Ninja is so bad.
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The guy could have killed Kakashi in their first clash, when by surprise he was behind is back, but no! Zabuza is too cool for that, he has to talk and seem cool first before starting a full swing with his gigantic and heavy sword. Kakashi had time to kill the Water clone and than lower himself down.
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The guy imprisons Kakashi in the water prison, makes a water clone, make that water clone invisible, and instead of killing his target and completing his mission. No! He goes for naruto and kicks him, not even kills or tries to kill Naruto, and starts taunting all the kids about not being real ninjas.
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In the bridge, he get inside the mist where Kakashi can't see him and does nothing other than talking instead of killing the fucking old man, for a silent Killer, he sure is very noisy. While is true that Kakashi is able to evade his first old man assassination attempt, they end up in the same situation as they began, but Zabuza is to cool to try to kill the old man again, NO! Zabuza starts to talk and talk and talk. Showing how cool he is and how amazing of a counter he has for Kakashi Sharingan. "Are you seeing this mist? It totally counters your Sharingan! Why I'm not taking advantage of that and going to the killing? Well, talking with you is way more enjoyable than killing that old fart!"
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Have I already said that he totally forgot what was his mission? He doesn't even sends Haku to kill the old man, and instead watches Haku powning Sasuke for a long time and later adding Naruto without killing them. Haku also totally forgot for what reason they were in there. What great professional don't even stays focused in what he MUST do? The response is ZABUZA.
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At least it wasn't only Zabuza. Haku, Kakashi, Sasuke and Naruto all forgot about their mission. Sakura is even worse then them all! She totally left the old man unprotected to go look for Sasuke and see how he was.
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That's shonen for you.
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I feel like I'm reading mangachapterSINS.
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As a kid, I never questioned it. Zabuza was just "cool" but apparently he's a sloppy/weird ninja (though I suppose that's the problem with calling everything a "ninja". Should've called him something else).
Then again, most pirates in OP are kinda…weird/sloppy pirates. But in this fantasy world, I just accept that ninjas aren't really ninjas much like pirates aren't really pirates in OP.
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That's shonen for you.
I read and watched a lot of shonen and I don't remember seeing something like this so regularly to be a generalization of the genre.
Kishimoto is totally making the character do everything opposite to what he says the character does and is.
- Professional Ninja? NOPE.
- Silent Ninja? NOPE.
- Completes is mission fast and unnoticed? NOPE.
- Bloodthirsty person? NOPE. Well, in the end of the arc he does kill a lot of people only with a kunai in his mouth. That must at least serve as a redeeming factor.
- Strong Elite Ninja? Dubious. Sasuke powns 5 of his water clones in an instant, Kakashi toys with him 2 times, one with the sharingan and other without it(the without it was the real problem. Not only Kakashi wasn't using the sharingan, but he was handicapped with Haku dead body holding him).
One thing is having characters talking to much, and stopping their battles in the middle to do so(This is bad, but something that a lot of times is unavoidable). Other thing is saying that a character objective and characteristics are ones, and them having him negating everything with his actions. Even him being a strong ninja is kinda of dubious, when you have Sasuke powning 5 or more of his clones in an instant and Kakashi toying with him in the bridge.
At least he was cool, and amazing scenes came out of this arc. To be honest, for me this arc is my favorite and a lot because of Zabuza, but his execution is pathetic.
–- Update From New Post Merge ---
As a kid, I never questioned it. Zabuza was just "cool" but apparently he's a sloppy/weird ninja (though I suppose that's the problem with calling everything a "ninja". Should've called him something else).
Then again, most pirates in OP are kinda…weird/sloppy pirates. But in this fantasy world, I just accept that ninjas aren't really ninjas much like pirates aren't really pirates in OP.
The question is what do you mean by weird/sloppy pirates? Pirates by definition are just a group of sea outlaws. The only thing they need to do is committing a specific criminal act recognized by a law of a government, in One Piece is by the World Government. Quote: "Piracy or pirating is the name of a specific crime under customary international law and also the name of a number of crimes under the municipal law of a number of States".
The most known crime is pillaging. Probably it was the first crime that defined the Pirate practicing and also the most prominent. But it isn't(wasn't? I don't know how the law of piracy are in modern times.) the only crime that make someone be a Pirate. I'm almost sure that traveling by sea without a license( Normally those ships did sea contraband) and putting a Jolly Roger were pirating crimes as well.
Going to sea without any permit and putting a Jolly Roger in their ship is something that Luffy and his crew did. Remember that Norland and later the King of his country just to be able to travel to Shandora needed permission of the World Government.Now, one thing is a Ninja being bad, other is an Elite Ninja with even a recognized name and known for certain kind of abilities, actually sucking in them. Zabuza does that. Fortunately he was cool and had a menacing aura, disguising all his misdoings.
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I read and watched a lot of shonen and I don't remember seeing something like this so regularly to be a generalization of the genre.
Kishimoto is totally making the character do everything opposite to what he says the character does and is.
- Professional Ninja? NOPE.
- Silent Ninja? NOPE.
- Completes is mission fast and unnoticed? NOPE.
- Bloodthirsty person? NOPE. Well, in the end of the arc he does kill a lot of people only with a kunai in his mouth. That must at least serve as a redeeming factor.
- Strong Elite Ninja? Dubious. Sasuke powns 5 of his water clones in an instant, Kakashi toys with him 2 times, one with the sharingan and other without it(the without it was the real problem. Not only Kakashi wasn't using the sharingan, but he was handicapped with Haku dead body holding him).
One thing is having characters talking to much, and stopping their battles in the middle to do so(This is bad, but something that a lot of times is unavoidable). Other thing is saying that a character objective and characteristics are ones, and them having him negating everything with his actions. Even him being a strong ninja is kinda of dubious, when you have Sasuke powning 5 or more of his clones in an instant and Kakashi toying with him in the bridge.
At least he was cool, and amazing scenes came out of this arc. To be honest, for me this arc is my favorite and a lot because of Zabuza, but his execution is pathetic.
Now, one thing is a Ninja being bad, other is an Elite Ninja with even a recognized name and known for certain kind of abilities, actually sucking in them. Zabuza does that. Fortunately he was cool and had a menacing aura, disguising all his misdoings.
Thank you for your elaboration. I understand your frustration and mostly agree with you.
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As a kid, I never questioned it. Zabuza was just "cool" but apparently he's a sloppy/weird ninja (though I suppose that's the problem with calling everything a "ninja". Should've called him something else).
Then again, most pirates in OP are kinda…weird/sloppy pirates. But in this fantasy world, I just accept that ninjas aren't really ninjas much like pirates aren't really pirates in OP.
Well pirates are supposed to be more of a party people, weirdos, dumbasses, robbers, looters and drunkards. That's not to say all of them are like that, but more of a general image.
Ninjas on the other hand are trained spies, rogues and assassins. Precision, silence and invisibility. Of course, since it's a shounen, we can have Bruce Lee ninja, Tupac ninja, MILF ninja, zombie ninja, etc… But in my opinion, ninjas in Naruto fail more in being ninjas than pirates in OP fail at being pirates.
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Well pirates are supposed to be more of a party people, weirdos, dumbasses, robbers, looters and drunkards. That's not to say all of them are like that, but more of a general image.
Ninjas on the other hand are trained spies, rogues and assassins. Precision, silence and invisibility. Of course, since it's a shounen, we can have Bruce Lee ninja, Tupac ninja, MILF ninja, zombie ninja, etc… But in my opinion, ninjas in Naruto fail more in being ninjas than pirates in OP fail at being pirates.
We need more MILF pirates.
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gintama's latest arc gave more ninja's action than a ninja manga
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You though the villian looks like shit… Now look at this
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Doesn't matter if he really was or wasn't emo. You know how fandoms can be, even if something does fit or isn't real, if the fans think so, then they keep saying its so. Its how the teen-fans saw him as such and yeah there were some who called him that, even made fanart.
Others called him that as a joke, saying he failed at being emo as well.
Emo-Sasuke is like Zoro/Sanji yaoi, it is not canon but don't try telling the fans that. :ninja:My point I is that many teens (and preteen) that thought they were Goth or were into emo, were fans of Sasuke, when it started to fade some, so did his popularity …. that is as the fans grew up they saw how much the character sucked
I was never goth but it was weird that a time I did like his character. Not at first but I got used to him after I learned about his tragic past and the reason why the way he was. I even understood what drove him to leave the village and seek Orochimaru for more power and the dark arts. What really made his character nose dive is the whole 'Itachi Was Really A Good Guy' crap and that's when Sasuke took a true descent into darkness with his decision to attack Konoha. Do I understand his reasoning? Yes. Does that make it good reasoning? No.
And from there he just got worse and worse the "eviler" he got but, lol, the worse thing he did was kill a couple of samurai and try to kill Sakura. He also tried to kill Karin. If you think about it he wasn't doing so "bad" afterall.
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Could Sasuke's face look anymore depressing than it already did? Apparently the answer is yes.
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It also baffles me that sasuke chose to leave the village early with 1 arm and not wait a couple of extra days to get his arm back. Is he stupid?
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His way of "atonement".
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It also baffles me that sasuke chose to leave the village early with 1 arm and not wait a couple of extra days to get his arm back. Is he stupid?
Is this a rhetorical question?