I thought it was pretty clear that CP9's techniques is a basic training for many marines. Rokushiki is how the World Government trains their soldiers so they can master haki. The similarities are there for some: tekkai, kamie. And if I had to say why Lucci didn't have haki was probably due to him finishing the Rokushiki training and then being sent on his 5 year undercover mission.
Theories That Don't Deserve Their Own Thread v.2
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@Tamiel:
I thought it was pretty clear that CP9's techniques is a basic training for many marines.
I don't think it's basic training. I think it's more of if a guy's strong/smart enough they can suss out a few of those techniques on their own. Kind of like how Sanji did.
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@Monkey:
What the fuck are you talking about.
Taken literally
Doflamingo is "The being perfect in power, wisdom, and goodness who is worshipped as creator and ruler of the universe. "
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I don't think it's basic training. I think it's more of if a guy's strong/smart enough they can suss out a few of those techniques on their own. Kind of like how Sanji did.
We've seen quite a few marines using some of the rokushiki techniques though, I doubt they all just happened to figure out something like Soru.
Especially when Blueno thought it was incredible that Luffy was able to assimlate one of the techniques.
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^Thanks RobZilla, took the words out of my fingertips. To add to it, not trying to hate on Coby, but I wouldn't put him up there on Luffy's level to analyze techniques like that. Coby is the hard working guy who gets to the top through rigourous training.
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Try out my first game! All feedback is welcome, enjoy and thanks. Heroine: Kiku
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@Tamiel:
To add to it, not trying to hate on Coby, but I wouldn't put him up there on Luffy's level to analyze techniques like that.
Luffy's a dumbass. That's kind of his main character trait. If he can figure out a rokushiki tech on the fly I'm sure strong marines of average intelligence or higher could do the same.
It's not like every marine knows these techs either. So far there's only been a handful of non-CP9 that can use them.
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Luffy's a dumbass. That's kind of his main character trait. If he can figure out a rokushiki tech on the fly I'm sure strong marines of average intelligence or higher could do the same.
It's not like every marine knows these techs either. So far there's only been a handful of non-CP9 that can use them.
When it comes to combat Luffy seems to be pretty gifted when analyzing situations and over coming the fighting style/habits of his opponents.
And no it's not every marine that knows these techniques but it appears that marines with out Devil Fruits or marines with Zoan fruits do get the 6 powers trained into them.
Momonga, Vergo, Dalmation, Koby and a few others during the war showed these techniques. That's obviously not everyone but it would make sense that guys/girls without the ability to produce elemental beams would specifically be taught how to make the most out of their bodies.
Speaking of their training I'd love to see how they go about training various Devil Fruit users. Is it like Xavier's School of Gifted Mutants where darn near everyone has a unique way of approaching their abilities because most of them are so vastly different? With Fujitora its implied he was given that gravity fruit and taught techniques to go about using it. I imagine several training halls for fruit users and separate halls for zoan only/fruitless soldiers and then special times where they mix.
But then at what point do Marine's just choose their own weapon? I would imagine for the most part there is some uniformity when training be it in hand to hand combat and then with swords. But Helmeppo can just use his little knives and Smoker can use his jute(sp?) at any point in their career?
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^Thanks RomanceDawn, you guys are so on point I don't even have to retort anymore. Obviously Luffy is a dumbass, but he is not a one dimensional strategy foghter. He just doesn't go in all the time spamming one technique. The fact that he has several situational techniques means that he knows how to take the most out of a situation. He may not be a fighter that sets up traps, or will have a deep monologue analyzing a fight. But his straight to the point kind of mentality allows him to counter a technique at a basic level. His counter might be quirky ( water luffy, or gomu gomu stupid), but it is there.
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Luffy's a dumbass. That's kind of his main character trait. If he can figure out a rokushiki tech on the fly I'm sure strong marines of average intelligence or higher could do the same.
Luffy's shown time and time again that he's basically a genius when it comes to fighting.
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I think the Gears in general are pretty smart themselves.
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Luffy's shown time and time again that he's basically a genius when it comes to fighting.
I wouldn't call him a genius either. It's more he's been fighting and going through life and death situations all his life, so his improvisation skills are great. Combined that with his natural talent and all that experience and you have Luffy. He's not very smart at all.
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@The:
I wouldn't call him a genius either. It's more he's been fighting and going through life and death situations all his life, so his improvisation skills are great. Combined that with his natural talent and all that experience and you have Luffy. He's not very smart at all.
There are more intelligences than just academics.
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Chapter 437 Discussion after franky decides to join the Strawhats:
So who think Usopp is inside that duffelbag?
H x H Chimera Ant Arc / OP Manga Spoiler
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@Long:
There are more intelligences than just academics.
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True an artist or athlete could also be considered a genius.
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Yeah, not like a little event in Rio is celebrating mastery in different fields.
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I just had a thought about Jinbe that didn't fit anywhere else so here we go.
Here are things we know about Jinbe and his arrival to Whole Cake Island:
– He already knew he was going to be changing to Straw Hat's crew
-- He believes Luffy will be King of the Pirates
-- He brought Big Mom the poneglyph
I suspect that bringing Big Mom the poneglyph had two purposes. One, to try to get out of her crew more easily and honorably (which seems to have failed, although those details aren't certain yet). And two, so he could (by bringing it in) gain access to the other Poneglyph. I suspect Jinbe now has a paper copy of both. He's big enough to have a couple of rolled/folded copies in his kimono.
Stealth went out the window quite a while ago, so I doubt Brooke and Pedro would have been able to succeed in their part. Later, when they think they've failed, Jinbe will reveal his copies.
Aside from all that, I also think what most people do which is that he saved Pekoms. As for what happened at the end of his actual conversation with Big Mom, I don't think there's enough info to guess reliably on that right now. -
Hope this is the right place for it.
My thoughts on how the Kaido fight goes down, based on what we know currently:
Kaido vs Luffy, Kidd, Law, and Marco - with the final blow/blows being from Luffy obviously
Shogun vs Zoro - Zoro needs this fight, bad. Everyone has been fodder for Zoro so far in the New World, he needs a real opponent and Shogun is perfect for that. Please, just Zoro and nobody else, although I feel like Killer could team up with Zoro here due to them both being the two non-captain supernovas of the worst generation. Or maybe Kinemon, Kanjuro, and Raizou (nearly forgot about them) helps Zoro
King vs Sanji and Jinbe - Sanji and Jinbe seem, to me, to be intertwined. First, they fought together in Fishman Island, and now it looks like they both need to be 'rescued' from Big Mom, so I feel this pattern will continue
Queen vs Nami, Robin, and Carrot - Continuing the trend of female vs female fights… I'm just not sure if those three can handle Queen, although if Queen is an okama then Sanji here instead. Usopp could help here too
Jack vs Nekomamushi and Inuarashi - Unfinished business
X Drake vs Franky and Chopper - Chopper for his Monster Point and Franky's metalness to deal with Drake's T-Rex form
Apoo vs Brook - The two music guys fighting seems fitting
Basil Hawkins vs Killer - Operating on the assumption that Hawkins is working for Kaido also. We know Kidd is imprisoned and Apoo is working for Kaido, but I can't remember if we got an indication of what happened to Hawkins?I'm assuming there's more Kaido fighters that we haven't met, apart from King and Queen, that Usopp (and maybe others) will fight. Or maybe he'll help everybody out from afar. Otherwise it's going to end up like 1 Kaido guy vs 5 Straw Hat guys. Also, I'm still iffy when it comes to Marco… is he gonna be there with the others or will Weevil prevent that? If Marco does show up, he most likely will not be alone, so is he going to bring along the other Whitebeard pirates? Jozu? Vista? Also, how many of the Minks will be there? Pedro, the musketeers, Wanda? Seems a little overkill, but then again... is it?
Too many questions/unknowns, but still fun to speculate.
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So I have a theory about conqueror's haki that someone has probs heard but I wanted to run it by you guys to see what you thought.
Ever since I watched that filler with that old guy who had C haki that helped Luffy train it made me think that what happened to him caused him to have Conquerors haki. This made me think about the other characters that had it so far. Besides the guys we know almost nothing about (Whitebeard, Shanks, Chinjao, and Rayleigh) they have had all had something that just sucked happen to them. Boa was a slave, Ace and Luffy both had Sabo 'die' plus people they loved being in danger, and Doffy was persecuted beyond belief. All of these characters have C haki and all of their lives have essentially sucked. Yes I know you could say that most people in One Piece have had some tragic stuff happen to them. But it got me wondering….. why these characters? I just can't grasp the fact that it is just random.
It seems to me that when people go through something tragic it causes them to gain C haki but it could just be that because of these things they have a gained a strong will and then it manifests in them. Basically what I think is that everyone in the One Piece world has the ability of King's haki but it only can manifest when someone goes though an experience that makes their will become strong and then when they are at their lowest moment trying to do something that is impossible it manifests in them. It is just 1 in a million that is able to make those circumstances happen.
In the event that this is true do you think anyone else in the SH crew would have the ability. Roger's crew had at least two in Shanks and Rayleigh and then i doubt that Roger himself didn't have it. So maybe a couple Sh will gain it, most likely candidates being Zoro or Sanji. But if this is true I hope the entire crew does not get it cause that would make it cheap almost.
Anyway random thoughts in my head. Please comment and poke holes if you see 'em
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Hope this is the right place for it.
My thoughts on how the Kaido fight goes down, based on what we know currently:
Kaido vs Luffy, Kidd, Law, and Marco - with the final blow/blows being from Luffy obviously
Shogun vs Zoro - Zoro needs this fight, bad. Everyone has been fodder for Zoro so far in the New World, he needs a real opponent and Shogun is perfect for that. Please, just Zoro and nobody else, although I feel like Killer could team up with Zoro here due to them both being the two non-captain supernovas of the worst generation. Or maybe Kinemon, Kanjuro, and Raizou (nearly forgot about them) helps Zoro
King vs Sanji and Jinbe - Sanji and Jinbe seem, to me, to be intertwined. First, they fought together in Fishman Island, and now it looks like they both need to be 'rescued' from Big Mom, so I feel this pattern will continue
Queen vs Nami, Robin, and Carrot - Continuing the trend of female vs female fights… I'm just not sure if those three can handle Queen, although if Queen is an okama then Sanji here instead. Usopp could help here too
Jack vs Nekomamushi and Inuarashi - Unfinished business
X Drake vs Franky and Chopper - Chopper for his Monster Point and Franky's metalness to deal with Drake's T-Rex form
Apoo vs Brook - The two music guys fighting seems fitting
Basil Hawkins vs Killer - Operating on the assumption that Hawkins is working for Kaido also. We know Kidd is imprisoned and Apoo is working for Kaido, but I can't remember if we got an indication of what happened to Hawkins?I'm assuming there's more Kaido fighters that we haven't met, apart from King and Queen, that Usopp (and maybe others) will fight. Or maybe he'll help everybody out from afar. Otherwise it's going to end up like 1 Kaido guy vs 5 Straw Hat guys. Also, I'm still iffy when it comes to Marco… is he gonna be there with the others or will Weevil prevent that? If Marco does show up, he most likely will not be alone, so is he going to bring along the other Whitebeard pirates? Jozu? Vista? Also, how many of the Minks will be there? Pedro, the musketeers, Wanda? Seems a little overkill, but then again... is it?
Too many questions/unknowns, but still fun to speculate.
I am also of the opinion that we might get a nami robin collaboratiin fiht in wano since there might be a really strong Wano opponent thats a woman there and it would be a way to avoid sidelining either one and without making it seem like an asspull
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Shogun vs Zoro - Zoro needs this fight, bad. Everyone has been fodder for Zoro so far in the New World, he needs a real opponent and Shogun is perfect for that. Please, just Zoro and nobody else, although I feel like Killer could team up with Zoro here due to them both being the two non-captain supernovas of the worst generation. Or maybe Kinemon, Kanjuro, and Raizou (nearly forgot about them) helps Zoro
[…]
Jack vs Nekomamushi and Inuarashi - Unfinished businessIf Raizou's going to fight anyone it's going to be Jack. He feels extremely guilty about what happened at Zou and wants to make up for it. Jack is the best opponent for that.
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My predictions are:
Inuarashi & Nekomamushi vs. Jack
Zoro vs. Queen
Sanji & Jinbe vs. King
Kin'emon, Kanjuro, & Raizo vs. ShogunI could see Zoro taking on the Shogun, but the samurai will have personal beef with him and I really wanna see them in a real fight.
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If Raizou's going to fight anyone it's going to be Jack. He feels extremely guilty about what happened at Zou and wants to make up for it. Jack is the best opponent for that.
I like that. So, Raizou in addition to Nekomamushi and Inuarashi or Raizou alone? Or Raizou plus Kinemon and Kanjuro?
Personally, I think Nekomamushi, Inuarashi, and Raizou makes the most sense.
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@Kaido:
My predictions are:
Inuarashi & Nekomamushi vs. Jack
Zoro vs. Queen
Sanji & Jinbe vs. King
Kin'emon, Kanjuro, & Raizo vs. ShogunI could see Zoro taking on the Shogun, but the samurai will have personal beef with him and I really wanna see them in a real fight.
I don't see it happening that way. If those three could beat the Shogun, they would have done so by now (I'm sure Kaidou isn't always at Wano). I really don't see anybody but Zoro taking on the Shogun.
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zoro vs shogun( with some help from kinemon, momonosuke, kanjuro)
Jack vs raizou + catviper+ dogstorm
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hey, you guys know that Kaidou's calamities aren't the only strong opponents Luffy's alliance will have to defeat right ?
remember how many commanders had Newgate ? and how many allies ? -
I don't see it happening that way. If those three could beat the Shogun, they would have done so by now (I'm sure Kaidou isn't always at Wano). I really don't see anybody but Zoro taking on the Shogun.
It was never indicated that they wanted to fight the shogun before he and Kaido killed Oden and forced them to flee, and it's not like it'd be easy for them to do especially in a culture like Wano's. Plus, Raizo stated that one of their goals after Oden's death is to kill the shogun.
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@Kaido:
Plus, Raizo stated that one of their goals after Oden's death is to kill the shogun.
wat. i'm confused. isn't the actual Shogun suppose to be a traitor - the usurping Shogun - who's know working for Kaido ? and Oden the former Shogun ?
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@John:
wat. i'm confused. isn't the actual Shogun suppose to be a traitor - the usurping Shogun - who's know working for Kaido ? and Oden the former Shogun ?
Oden's the daimyo of Kuri.
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@John:
wat. i'm confused. isn't the actual Shogun suppose to be a traitor - the usurping Shogun - who's know working for Kaido ? and Oden the former Shogun ?
Oden is a daimyo, which is the word for feudal lords in medieval Japan.
If we theorize that Oda is leaving out any Emperor figure, than basically…The Shogun is the overall ruler of Wano, and there are many Daimyo under him ruling the different parts of Wano.
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@Monkey:
Oden is a daimyo, which is the word for feudal lords in medieval Japan.
If we theorize that Oda is leaving out any Emperor figure, than basically…The Shogun is the overall ruler of Wano, and there are many Daimyo under him ruling the different parts of Wano.
So what are the odds the Shogun isn't a particularly strong fighter but just a political figurehead?
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Considering that he is one of the two primary targets of the alliance's mission on Wano, I'd say zero.
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It would be funny if he was Ryuma's descendant and gets all petty on Zoro.
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I think Capone Begg hasn't learned haki. because he threatens Caeser with seastone bullet and not just shooting him with haki.
http://www.mangareader.net/one-piece/812/14 -
@John:
I think Capone Begg hasn't learned haki. because he threatens Caeser with seastone bullet and not just shooting him with haki.
http://www.mangareader.net/one-piece/812/14The threat could've been to suggest that anyone in his crew could bring him down. Alternatively he knows haki, but is weak I'm Armament and/or can't imbue weapons or projectiles with it.
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On crewmates with conqueror's haki would be Zoro and….Brooke(Soooul king~)
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The threat could've been to suggest that anyone in his crew could bring him down. Alternatively he knows haki, but is weak I'm Armament and/or can't imbue weapons or projectiles with it.
Seems reasonable. I was just suggesting something that just crossed my mind.
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@John:
Seems reasonable. I was just suggesting something that just crossed my mind.
I do like the idea that there might be a Worst Generation who doesn't know haki yet. Not sure how likely it is since it's so key to survival in the New World.
That said, I'm gonna toss out something I've thought for a long time, and may even have mentioned before but if i have its been long enough I can say what the hell why not?
Blackbeard is incapable of using haki. Perhaps he just never learned it or whatever it is that lets him have multiple Devil Fruit negate his ability to use it. Either way, this is why he set out specifically for the Dark Dark Fruit. It's a makeshift substitute for Armament Haki's ability to combat other fruit users.
He seems able to sense haki going by comments in Impel Down and possibly Jaya, but using it is for whatever reason beyond him.
Waldorf: You know Statler, after watching the last one thousand episodes of One Piece, I think I've come to a conclusion.
Statler: No you haven't.
Both: DOHOHOHOHOHO!
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@John:
I think Capone Begg hasn't learned haki. because he threatens Caeser with seastone bullet and not just shooting him with haki.
http://www.mangareader.net/one-piece/812/14The whole bullet thing was a lie (Bege didn't even have a gun in hand), and Seastone is a much more capable tool to threaten with than Haki.
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what does "the head with the crown" mean here ? http://www.mangareader.net/one-piece/830/10
does that mean he could end up putting babies in BigMom's tummy ? Guess the crown means "king" ( sort of ) then. -
I do like the idea that there might be a Worst Generation who doesn't know haki yet. Not sure how likely it is since it's so key to survival in the New World.
That said, I'm gonna toss out something I've thought for a long time, and may even have mentioned before but if i have its been long enough I can say what the hell why not?
Blackbeard is incapable of using haki. Perhaps he just never learned it or whatever it is that lets him have multiple Devil Fruit negate his ability to use it. Either way, this is why he set out specifically for the Dark Dark Fruit. It's a makeshift substitute for Armament Haki's ability to combat other fruit users.
He seems able to sense haki going by comments in Impel Down and possibly Jaya, but using it is for whatever reason beyond him.
I've supported this theory for a while. While I definitely think the main reason he sought out the Dark Dark Fruit was for the process of how he gains new Fruit abilities(I think his body lets him have more than one, the darkness lets him "absorb" the power like how Smiley's fruit was "absorbed" into the apple), I also think the fact that he made it such a point to Ace on how he can negate a fruit because he can't use Armament Haki.
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@John:
hey, you guys know that Kaidou's calamities aren't the only strong opponents Luffy's alliance will have to defeat right ?
remember how many commanders had Newgate ? and how many allies ?Yes, of course, we do. I even addressed that in my post. The fact is, apart from King, Queen, and Shogun, we have absolutely no clue who else Kaido has fighting for him, so it's difficult to say who would be fighting who. I made my list based on what we know currently. I'm sure it would change once we got to Wano and met the rest of Kaido's people (and the rest of Straw Hat allies). Until then, this is the best I can do.
Feel free to provide your own list.
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I get the feeling that Apoo, Hawkins, Drake, and maybe Killer could be on Kaido's side. Killer is pretty hard to guess. We don't really know enough about his relationship with Kidd.
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Yes, of course, we do. I even addressed that in my post. The fact is, apart from King, Queen, and Shogun, we have absolutely no clue who else Kaido has fighting for him, so it's difficult to say who would be fighting who. I made my list based on what we know currently. I'm sure it would change once we got to Wano and met the rest of Kaido's people (and the rest of Straw Hat allies). Until then, this is the best I can do.
Feel free to provide your own list.
Was a King and Queen mentioned? I was under the impression that the Shogun acted as a King and considering how Kinemon treats Nami and women in general i can't really see the Queen or Shoguns wife to be anyone really that formidable. That doesn't mean kaido doesn't have people to fill those fights or not.
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Was a King and Queen mentioned? I was under the impression that the Shogun acted as a King and considering how Kinemon treats Nami and women in general i can't really see the Queen or Shoguns wife to be anyone really that formidable. That doesn't mean kaido doesn't have people to fill those fights or not.
There's a picture of Oda's office where the note in the upper right corner on his desk says: "Kaido, King, Queen, Jack". The fact that Doflamingo, an ally of Kaido, has the underworld broker name of "Joker" and gave his top executives themes of hearts, spades, diamonds, and clubs is likely not a coincidence either lol.
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I doubt that the Shogun is actually a main member of Kaido's crew. He's likely similar to Kuzan in being a close ally who has his own personal agenda.And Queen could always be an Okama. :ninja:
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Was a King and Queen mentioned? I was under the impression that the Shogun acted as a King and considering how Kinemon treats Nami and women in general i can't really see the Queen or Shoguns wife to be anyone really that formidable. That doesn't mean kaido doesn't have people to fill those fights or not.
You're confused.
King and Queen are speculated to be the names/titles/nicknames of the other two Calamities in Kaidou's crew based off some image seen in Oda's office.
No one thinks they're the royalty of Wano (which would be called Emperor/Empress anyway if such a thing existed).
The Shogun is undoubtedly the political leader of Wano, being as Wano is clearly One Piece medieval Japan, even maybe specifically the Tokugawa period.considering how Kinemon treats Nami and women in general i can't really see the Queen or Shoguns wife to be anyone really that formidable.
Humans are funny creatures. Even with all the heavy sexism and limitations on women throughout history, the same desire for power made for lots of powerful female leaders throughout that same history, both in being great rulers and evil despots. Even if they had to sometimes lead from behind the puppet throne of their husband/son.
It wouldn't at all be implausible for a strong female leader in a super sexist country. -
@Monkey:
You're confused.
King and Queen are speculated to be the names/titles/nicknames of the other two Calamities in Kaidou's crew based off some image seen in Oda's office.
No one thinks they're the royalty of Wano (which would be called Emperor/Empress anyway if such a thing existed).
The Shogun is undoubtedly the political leader of Wano, being as Wano is clearly One Piece medieval Japan, even maybe specifically the Tokugawa period.Humans are funny creatures. Even with all the heavy sexism and limitations on women throughout history, the same desire for power made for lots of powerful female leaders throughout that same history, both in being great rulers and evil despots. Even if they had to sometimes lead from behind the puppet throne of their husband/son.
It wouldn't at all be implausible for a strong female leader in a super sexist country.Oh! Thanks for the clarification!
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I wonder if Green Bull will try to interrupt Big Mom wedding.
Marines by all means should not just silently wait while Yonko and Germa 66 have an alliance by wedding.
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I wonder if Green Bull will try to interrupt Big Mom wedding.
Marines by all means should not just silently wait while Yonko and Germa 66 have an alliance by wedding.
The way things are depicted I don't think the Marines have the power projection of directly attacking the Yonkou.
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the WG seems to be okay since they helped with Sanji's bounty.
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@Monkey:
The way things are depicted I don't think the Marines have the power projection of directly attacking the Yonkou.
They do not have power to directly attack Yonko but they might have had launched some sort of mission that could interrupt the wedding.
Some CP0 agents being on wedding could be a wrench. Like even Luffy was able to mess with Ace execution, group of Marines or CP0 could try to interrupt alliance of Yonko and Germa 66 who is "legendary enemy of marines".
@John:
the WG seems to be okay since they helped with Sanji's bounty.
Some of World Goverment sure are okay with helping Germa but Marines and WG were shown many times to have different opinions on some matters.
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I wonder if Green Bull will try to interrupt Big Mom wedding.
Marines by all means should not just silently wait while Yonko and Germa 66 have an alliance by wedding.
For some reason I get the vibe that Green Bull isn't gonna show up till after Wano. Idk why but I see Fujitora showing back up in Wano (maybe cuz his sword or something) and I don't really see Green Bull showing up here. Just a hunch though. Hopefully I'm proven wrong cuz I really want to see Green Bull
