Yu-Gi-Oh! US Deal Terminated - 4Kids Sued For Millions

Hiroy

IN a technical sense, the card game sprang up from the manga, the manga wasn't created to promote the card game. And since the anime was an adaption of the manga, its also a bit different. Not to say the manga didn't focus in on the card game because they thought it could sell merchandise though

Well, the original idea was a dark and fucked up take on gambling. I'm assuming the series didn't get much attention until it started selling out. Hell, I'm sure that portion of the series isn't acknowledged(or considered canon) anymore due to the current user-base.

Aaronrules380

Probably true. Still 5Ds (Which make no mistake, was made to sell merchandise) is pretty entertaining in my opinion, and its definitely better than the original, even if its premise does sound rediculously idiotic.

Malintex_Terek

@Kaba:

may very well be the keystone that keeps the U.S. anime industry together!

I don't understand why this is a good thing.

People have already pretty much killed the offline R1 industry by indulging in sites like CrunchyRoll, which don't do dubs, and the quality of modern dubs is so painfully bad nobody with any taste in voice acting would buy them. Many of the major R1 companies, like CPM, Geneon and ADV are already dead, even if FUNimation becomes the only R1 company, fundamentally it's operating on the same business model as those dead companies. If it survives, it's probably going to only have virtual properties and no longer dish out hard copy DVDs or Blu-Ray.

There isn't really any need for FUNimation to exist anymore, since the original Japanese companies in R2 are more than capable of hiring translators through an intermediate and streaming them. Like with Pokemon USA taking over all Pokemon related operations from 4Kids and Wizards of the Coast, it's only a matter of time before the middle-man is completely sloughed off.

I'm not very upset with this because I can't stand R1 DVDs, with their subdued dub track, pitiful voice overs and updated material from the TV version packed with offensive fanservice. But I can't say I'm not disappointed that people have already demonstrated, in more ways than one, that "quality" - production quality AND video quality - mean little to them and they're willing to settle for garbage like CrunchyRoll.

4Kids, for all its annoying antics, was somewhat submissive when it came to stopping proliferation of its properties. We've had some trouble recently with 5D's, but I got to watch the entire series subbed as late as last August. This could easily have been connected to it, as it's clear TV Tokyo has been taking a more proactive interest in YGO's fate overseas and pressuring 4Kids to comply.

I would rather have 4Kids' system, which formerly permitted subbed OP on YouTube (which people back five years ago oh so stupidly didn't realize was a blessing) rather than FUNimation identifying flagged torrent IPs and suing people for downloading One Piece. There's currently no defense against that kind of technology, so most people are going to either stop watching anime of be forced to swallow CrunchyRoll. I have standards, so I'm of the former - it's not like I have to watch an anime every season, I'm not that insecure. But it is a dang shame, like the cheapening of hardware tools since the 1940's, and even though I'm financially connected to FUNimation, I really would like to see it go away.

Chopperrules

That's where I disagree with you. It's not about standards of quality - it's about what's legal and illegal. And FUNi withdrew their charges against those people.

Hiroy, it's true the series are made for money and to support a card game, but there is actually a nice plot and set of characters behind that. And in my opinion, that's why many of the older fans stick around.

Kaba Kaba Fruit

@Hiroy:

Nothin. I just don't see the point of re-dubbing something that was already a success to begin with. Maybe a company can pick it up to continue it, but other than that it's a big waste of time.

If there is significant demand for an uncut dub, then it wouldn't be a waste of time. If not, I'd settle for an uncut subbed release of Duel Monsters. I could care less about GX and 5Ds.
@SonPan:

Edit: Hiroy: I will admit that DM was pretty okay, only cause the voices were actually good (Dan GREEN), but seriously other than that, compared to the original it still had signifigant changes that changed the stories, and made it make no sense. But 5D's really had the worst of it…
Loyal fans? Tell me how many of the loyal fans actually knew about these uncut dvds. I mean they werent even that good and were so rare. Plus they were so many years ago.

I'll never understand why people thought Dan Green was a great voice for Yugi. Don't get me wrong, Dan Green is a great guy and his other roles I've heard him in were awesome (N.M.E. salesman FTW) but he was laughable as Yugi and even he agreed that some parts of Yugi's voice didn't work (such as making Yami Yugi deep voiced). Besides Yugi is supposed to be a teenager so hearing Dan desperately trying to make little Yugi sound teen-like only shows that he was brought in to fill a voice role and not to give meaning behind that voice.

And don't get me started on Joey….

Malintex, I agree with you that the middle man clause is getting beyond ridiculous but as it stands, the majority of fans are gung-ho about FUNimation needing to stay alive in order to provide anime to the masses. To have all our anime online will be something the masses are just going to have to accept gradually.

Rebecky_Mo

Wow, and me without my popcorn. Hopefully Funimation doesn't get dragged down with the 4Kids ship. Guess Yu-Gi-Oh is officially off Toonzai now?

@Tokoro:

I say most of the kids anime should probably just be dubbed by the Canadians at this point. I mentioned before: Beyblade Metal Fusion is a completely Canadian dub and keeps all music and even is supported by one of the kids networks (can't remember if it's YTV or Teletoon…I know they're one and Bakugan is another...but Bakugan sucks so who cares about that) And there is also the Pretty Cure dub...but I don't know what's happened with that. (that's Canadian only though)

As long as there are still toy lines they want to bring over from Japan...and good anime (as well as not so good anime) to push them into the stores, the kids anime market will continue to be there.

is Canadian

Actually, both Beyblade AND Bakugan are done by the same company, Nelvana (who brought many of us our childhoods via Care Bears, Rupert, Eek! The Cat, the most amusing Medabots dub, and 1000 other shows); and the associations go Beyblade/YTV and Bakugan/Teletoon. I wasn't a huge fan of either show, but I can attest that their work on Beyblade was far superior.

Pretty Cure was dubbed by Vancouver-based Ocean Productions, who also did the Canadian-dub of DBZ, as well as Gundam Wing (and most of the Gundam shows), Vision of Escaflowne, Monster Rancher, MegamanNT Warrior, and X-Men Evolution.

While I do enjoy Nelvana's work, Ocean Productions is near and dear to my heart, and if anyone brought back Yu-Gi-Oh, I would want it to be them. I feel they've always been fairly respectful in keeping to the original anime, and the voice actors that work with them I consider some of the best in the business (Scott McNeil~!).

Kaiolino

Didn't Nelvana also make Cardcaptors?

lol

Tokoro Ataru

From what I've seen, Nelvana's changed since the bad old days with Cardcaptors. Admittedly one of the few anime I even watch anymore is Beyblade Metal Fusion (only got into it a few months ago and this is mostly since I really have no desire to search online for stuff…with so many millions of other things I could do online and my limited time and terrible multi-tasking skills, I just can't make another option for it) and it is a good dub for a silly, slightly over the top but still a fun series. I'm not saying Nelvana is the right company to take over the YGO franchise but I've noticed that many of the kid-friendly franchises that do make it to TV do seem to have Canadian backing as of late and it would be an option if it allowed for a better dub to be on TV, even if it means skipping ahead to ZeXal. (besides: Tv-Tokyo airs both Beyblade and Bakugan so YGO would be a snap for them to move there)

Retro

I'm not sure whether to feel happy or sad.

On one hand this'll mean no more 5D's and we were just getting into the thick of the third season. Plus no fourth season GX (then again they say it wasn't much of a season anyway). But more importantly if 4Kids goes, its pretty much the end of the Saturday Morning toons. Say what you will but 4Kids is one of the last networks broadcasting this. ABC stopped trying and CBS is…I have no effing clue. "Fluff" is what am looking for.

And really Funi getting targeted just for DVD distribution? DVDs that weren't even "uncut" as they claimed and got pulled after like three volumes. At worse they'll probably get fined a small fee but I doubt this'll break them.

On the other hand, this setback will hopefully make 4Kids start taking the market seriously again, put some damn effort into their work. The more profitable distribution is fine but if your gonna do it, do it right. If it bankrupts them, well hopefully someone will step up to the plate and do a better job with the YuGiOh franchise.

OrangeNinjasSucks

Wow, what's gonna happen now with the series?
@Hiroy:

Remember how much a flop the uncut sets of Yugioh were? Yeah, some loyal fans they were.

They weren't sets, they were volumes that only brought 3 episodes. I actually bought Volume 1 but that was only because they didn't have the other volumes.

I'm really hoping for a complete unedited YGO box set. As long as it's has the Japanese dub then I'll buy it. Viz or Funi. I just hope the official card game doesn't collapse as well.

loledinmypants

This post is deleted!

loledinmypants

@OrangeNinjasSucks:

I just hope the official card game doesn't collapse as well.

Konami handles the card game and shouldn't be hurt at all by this as it's almost completely unrelated… The card sales should do fine even without the show. Unless it's somehow dependent contractually with 4kids, which would be silly.

OrangeNinjasSucks

@loledinmypants:

Konami handles the card game and shouldn't be hurt at all by this as it's almost completely unrelated… The card sales should do fine even without the show. Unless it's somehow dependent contractually with 4kids, which would be silly.

Just worried though, cause I think 4Kids was like a big sponsor to the card game with the tournaments and the movie packs promoting each other. Maybe I'm wrong. It might be a market disadvantage though if the card game is without a show on the tv. Then again there are those who still play the card game and don't even watch the current yugioh series (like me.)

SonPan

McNeil <3! is also Canadian, I would also like it if YGO went to Ocean. Most of their dubs are really good (Escaflowne, Megaman, Gundams ect) and they were able to do kid shows as well. Which is why Pretty Cure has a decent dub, and still is viewable on tv.
Edit: Will never forgive Nirvana for CCS

Malintex_Terek

@Chopperrules:

And FUNi withdrew their charges against those people.

Since they have the power to target people, that incident didn't need any follow through, they only needed to issue a threat. But for people who consistently undermine their streaming efforts, they may be the subject of an unfortunate first time.

Chopperrules

@Malintex_Terek:

Since they have the power to target people, that incident didn't need any follow through, they only needed to issue a threat. But for people who consistently undermine their streaming efforts, there may be the subject of an unfortunate first time.

Right, I think it was more scaretactics than anything. I don't necessarily agree with the method, but I do believe One Piece is fine with its weekly simulcast and they have the right to back it up.

On the other hand, if I were sued for subbing 5D's without a proper simulcast, that would be different. Both cases are illegal, but in our case with YGO, there is nothing being done for the fans that needs to be done.

SympathyX

@SonPan:

I really hope 5D's gets redubbed more than the rest since it didnt even finish and was prob the worst dub of the three… (it's ending this week!!).
Also, with a new licence, GX's season 4 could finally be dubbed... but I really hope FUNi doesnt get in trouble for this, even though they could technically not know anything about these alligations.

Edit: Hiroy: I will admit that DM was pretty okay, only cause the voices were actually good (Dan GREEN), but seriously other than that, compared to the original it still had signifigant changes that changed the stories, and made it make no sense. But 5D's really had the worst of it…
Loyal fans? Tell me how many of the loyal fans actually knew about these uncut dvds. I mean they werent even that good and were so rare. Plus they were so many years ago.

Your kidding right?

Why are so many people gunning for a redub of Duel Monsters because the original was changed too much from the Japanese version?

The original Japanese version has countless stupid changes from the manga for christs sake! If you want it uncut, read the manga. It's a good translation and all of it is available from pretty much any bookstore.

Tokoro Ataru

@SonPan:

Edit: Will never forgive Nirvana for CCS

While what they did to CCS is unforgivable, I think Nelvana's changed enough that it has become a bit more trusting. As I said, the Beyblade dub is good and it does seem like Canadian companies care more now in getting a more authentic product out there compared to the bad old days of the 90s and early 00s, sort of like how we've seen Funi evolve.

RPG KING

Funi aint gonna lose DBZ or one piece for that matter.4kids screwed them selves. maybe funi can take over toonzai

Yonkou255

@RPG:

Funi aint gonna lose DBZ or one piece for that matter.4kids screwed them selves. maybe funi can take over toonzai

YES YES YES YES!

MAKE IT HAPPEN FUNI!

Electrivire

@RPG:

Funi aint gonna lose DBZ or one piece for that matter.4kids screwed them selves. maybe funi can take over toonzai

…

I'm ok with this.

SonPan

^That could be a dream come true.
Well I guess I'm too harsh on Nirvana. But I guess I will forgive them completely when a new dub of CCS comes out

Chopperrules

@SympathyX:

Your kidding right?

Why are so many people gunning for a redub of Duel Monsters because the original was changed too much from the Japanese version?

The original Japanese version has countless stupid changes from the manga for christs sake! If you want it uncut, read the manga. It's a good translation and all of it is available from pretty much any bookstore.

You're speaking out of your ass. As someone who translated the entire original version, I can say with absolute confidence that the original version is VERY different from the original in terms of dialogue and scenes.

Yes, many changes were made from the manga, but there were also many scenes and dialogue exactly the same. But from seeing the dub, you wouldn't know that, would you?

SonPan

@Chopperrules:

You're speaking out of your ass. As someone who translated the entire original version, I can say with absolute confidence that the original version is VERY different from the original in terms of dialogue and scenes.

Yes, many changes were made from the manga, but there were also many scenes and dialogue exactly the same. But from seeing the dub, you wouldn't know that, would you?

QFT!
Also, I'd love to read the original manga, but its just too hard to find. Any bookstore? Really I wish:getlost:

Chopperrules

@SonPan:

QFT!
Also, I'd love to read the original manga, but its just too hard to find. Any bookstore? Really I wish:getlost:

They're all on Amazon for relatively cheap. It's worth the read. I do love the original anime, but SympathyX was right about the anime changing many things. The manga overall is a lot better, minus some arcs handled really well in the anime. Duel Monsters filler is still quite good, though.

SympathyX

@Chopperrules:

You're speaking out of your ass. As someone who translated the entire original version, I can say with absolute confidence that the original version is VERY different from the original in terms of dialogue and scenes.

Yes, many changes were made from the manga, but there were also many scenes and dialogue exactly the same. But from seeing the dub, you wouldn't know that, would you?

Whaaaaaaaaaa?

the original version is different from the original?

WHAAAAAAAAAAAAAA?

I'm well aware about the 4kids changes to the series if thats what your getting at. I just don't see the point in asking for an "unedited" version and redub when even that has ridiculous changes from the original story.

Chopperrules

@SympathyX:

Whaaaaaaaaaa?

the original version is different from the original?

WHAAAAAAAAAAAAAA?

I'm well aware about the 4kids changes to the series if thats what your getting at. I just don't see the point in asking for an "unedited" version and redub when even that has ridiculous changes from the original story.

So just because the anime is different from the manga, we aren't entitled to a proper english dub?

Are you not seeing what's wrong with what you're saying?

SympathyX

No, not really. I don't see why you'd bother asking for one since a superior version already exists fully in english. Fine if you prefer anime to manga but at least you have something.

OrangeNinjasSucks

Bonds Beyond Time Movie is still coming to DVD….

http://www.animemaki.net/2011/04/yu-gi-oh-3d-bonds-beyond-time-to-be-released-on-dvd-in-july/

Seems as though 4Kids still has the rights to release the movie on DVDs plus they're planning on showing the movie in UK cinemas.

SonPan

I hope the DVD's are uncut and subbed… (even if its uncut dubbed ill be happy)

Edit: remembers Jack's english voice uhhhh maybe not so much...

Tsukento

@RPG:

Funi aint gonna lose DBZ or one piece for that matter.4kids screwed them selves. maybe funi can take over toonzai

No way. Anime's never been particularly done well with standard TV syndication. Better to keep it all on cable networks. Especially with the way censorship policies have tightened up over the years. If anything, I'd rather FUNi quit making their damn channel so obscure and difficult to get access to. I'd rather tham make their channel more accessible on cable than taking over Toonzai.

iMustang

Take it from someone who seen the movie in a select theater, the dub of this one really isn't bad. They didn't censor anything actually; everything from a character dying to the cats's balls were left in. We were surprised to say the least, and some of the one-liners are hilarious and don't seem to be script changes. My personal favorite is Yusei going "Now I Syncro Summon…" "Yugi: ... Syncro what?" XD

Also, I know 4Kids has some effect on the card game because of Tyler the Great Warrior. But like it's said above, not enough to effect the release of it.

SonPan

Oh wow that gets me excited actually. But I still hope theres japanese audio, just cause I love Yuya's voice so much and want an official release with HIS voice so I could treasure it. (since 5D's is over and I dont think he's gonna get a role ne where else, even tho he deserves it, like the leads before)

Edit: Another Qs. How was the Music? Was it orignal or 4Kids?

iMustang

I'm pretty sure it was 4Kids. The movie has a lot of new music in it, so it's hard to tell. But at least when they change characters (between Yugi Jaden and Yusei) they have their theme music playing in the background sometimes. It was all in good taste of the movie though.

And Jack does talk, but he only has like 4 lines in the whole movie, so you don't have to put up with it for long lol.

SonPan

lollll god I cant take Jack ATLAS seriously with that Australian accent…

Chopperrules

@SympathyX:

No, not really. I don't see why you'd bother asking for one since a superior version already exists fully in english. Fine if you prefer anime to manga but at least you have something.

And that still doesn't make any sense. Having the manga is great, but that's like saying we wouldn't want a good English dub for One Piece because the VIZ manga is releasing the English version.

SonPan

ChopperRules… haters gonna hate.

Chopperrules

Yes, I won't respond anymore because it's useless.

dan2026

Even the card game is heavily censored in America.
Yu-gi-oh! has been a massive mess from the start.

loledinmypants

@dan2026:

Even the card game is heavily censored in America.
Yu-gi-oh! has been a massive mess from the start.

Whoopdidoo, we can't see the sexually edgier card art because they're censored for kids. There's hentai and such if you REALLY have to get off to a harpy lady. And I'd assume there are more explicit card games if you have some bizarre card fetish. I understand the anime hate because of 4Kids doing their usual horrendous chop job, but I never understood why people care that much about not seeing Water Omotics's tits… :getlost:

@iMustang:

Also, I know 4Kids has some effect on the card game because of Tyler the Great Warrior. But like it's said above, not enough to effect the release of it.

As for this, I always figured that was more Make-A-Wish than actually 4Kids. Yeah, MAW went to 4Kids, but I'm sure they're the reason Konami made the card. And that's one out of like 7000+ cards that 4Kids had any part of (to my knowledge)

Hiroy

@dan2026:

Even the card game is heavily censored in America.
Yu-gi-oh! has been a massive mess from the start.

Ohnoez !

SonPan

I dont reallt care about the art getting cesored but the name changes always confused me…

Chopperrules

I can understand the card game edits much more than the anime. The anime is aimed at a Shonen audience, but in America much younger kids will purchase the cards whether they watched the show or not.

Tsukento

Hell, card editing is nothing new to the west. Pokemon had several of its cards edited, such as…

-Replacing a Misty card's artwork with new art, since the old featured her nude
-Replacing a Sabrina card's artwork with new art, since the old gave off the impression that she was flipping the bird
-Editing a Grimer card's eyes as it was popping out from a manhole, the original had Grimer's eyes looking under a girl's skirt
-Removing graves in the background of a Gengar card
-Editing a Trainer card with a different symbol as the Manji symbol in the original was easily mistaken for a Nazi Swastika.

OrangeNinjasSucks

@Hiroy:

Ohnoez !

OH NO!

SonPan

@OrangeNinjasSucks:

OH NO!

LOLLLLLLLLL omggg why have I not seen this before!!!!????
"Oh NO!"
"Oh YES!"
That part almost made me laugh out loud in the library silent study lol!

dan2026

@loledinmypants:

Whoopdidoo, we can't see the sexually edgier card art because they're censored for kids. There's hentai and such if you REALLY have to get off to a harpy lady. And I'd assume there are more explicit card games if you have some bizarre card fetish. I understand the anime hate because of 4Kids doing their usual horrendous chop job, but I never understood why people care that much about not seeing Water Omotics's tits… :getlost:

I love the way you automatically assume I was refering to boob shots.

I was refering more to how they censor guns, religious symbols, any references to death or violence. Even so far as changing inoffensive things like 'Black Magician' to 'Dark Magician'.

But whatever, I have never played the card game, nor will I probably ever play it.
Censorship still irks me though.

Chopperrules

The Black Magician edit always makes me lol. It would only make sense unless he was black.

loledinmypants

@dan2026:

I love the way you automatically assume I was refering to boob shots.

I was refering more to how they censor guns, religious symbols, any references to death or violence. Even so far as changing inoffensive things like 'Black Magician' to 'Dark Magician'.

I'm sorry for the assumption, but from my experience more people know of the editing away the sexually suggestive art than things like taking out cross-shaped graves in Call of the Haunted or the completely changed Tragedy art. Religion is sometimes avoided by companies marketing a product for children in order to make the product more universal and avoid issues with overreactive parents. I don't really agree with it, but it doesn't damage the card game imo. The random edits and the violence ones (because honestly they keep most of it intact but randomly change the guns to be "less threatening") have bothered me and felt 4Kids-ish, but never bothered me enough to keep me from playing. I'll agree on those kinds of edits being irritating.

SympathyX

@Chopperrules:

And that still doesn't make any sense. Having the manga is great, but that's like saying we wouldn't want a good English dub for One Piece because the VIZ manga is releasing the English version.

One Piece wasn't heavily changed for the anime though. Yes it has changes but not to Yu-gi-oh!'s degree. I don't get why you'd want to get a redub of the Yu-gi-oh! anime when the original was edited in the first place! That doesn't make any sense.

Seems a bit wierd to criticise the 4kids version for being edited when the japanese version is still a mess.