Visual Novel Discussion Thread

Malintex_Terek

I've had an itch to make this topic for a while now. It's been harder and harder to find pure discussion about good quality Japanese stories, and with the omnipresent shift of anime toward demographic pandering, story quality has eroded considerably and I find very few good shows released each year. It's suffocating, compared to 2006 when almost everything was watchable, and frankly boring, since there's no ongoing discussion between like parties on a subject that's mutually appreciated. I've talked to several people in this forum and gotten them to play visual novels, to much acclaim (I'm really glad you liked them!!) so I know there's interest, and with an anime/manga project like The World God Only Knows already making awareness of VNs more accessible to a wider audience, the time for this topic has come.

What are visual novels? Wiki can help you there. Chances are you've played visual novels in the form of games like Phoenix Wright, but the actual novel part is what many consider the "cut scene". They are effectively choice-tree sound novels with art. The medium is thus as flexible as traditional books, but doesn't suffer from demographic constraints like anime. If you like shounen style, there are shounen-styled VNs like Daibanchou! Big Bang Age. If you like serious drama, there are those too. Sci fi? Horror? Everything you could want, there's a novel with strong plot, characters, etc. Of course there's junk too, but when it comes to translated VNs, most people would not bother to translate junk, they translate what they like.

Why am I posting this in Other Manga/Anime? Visual novels aren't games really, they have all the interactivity of clicking the PLAY/PAUSE buttons on Media Player Classic. Likewise, their fans have little in common with "gamers" and I don't think there would be any interest in this subject in that subforum. Plus, most of my contacts are from this forum, so I want to maximize appeal.
I would also like to draw attention to a once-in-a-lifetime event.

Remember11 -the age of infinity- had an English patch released in October 2010. It is by KID, who created Ever17, although I personally don't feel it's up to the same godly standards as Ever17. However, R11 occurs over a six day period, from 11 January 2010 - 17 January 2010, and from personal experience, it is an incredible feeling to be playing the novel in real-time with the events depicted in-game. I had the opportunity to do this with Chaos;Head two years ago, it was utterly magical, and I highly recommend trying it out. You'll only get one shot at this, I suggest play one day/each day of the week.

Interestingly, I just got finished with Katanagatari and I think the release month/month setting worked well up until the last two episodes. It's really cool.

VNs I have played:

Chaos;Head (7.8/10)
Ever17 -the out of infinity- (9.7/10)
Fate/stay night (7.4/10)
Katawa Shoujou
Narcissu (8.2/10)
OMGWTFOTL (1.6/10)
Planetarian: Chiisana Hoshi no Yume (8.0/10)
Remember11 -the age of infinity-
Utawarerumono (7.7/10)
Sengoku Rance (9.4/10)
Saya no Uta

My current play queue:

Muv-Luv Alternative
999: Nine Hours, Nine Persons, Nine Doors
CROSS CHANNEL

Adamant

Tsukihime is amazing, and comes highly recommended. It's the sorta-kinda prequel to Fate/Stay Night (same universe, same author), so if you liked that, you'll like this. The main character is less of a twat, too.

Malintex_Terek

I saw the non-existant Tsukihime anime, and am familiar with the story since several friends played it, although I never got around to it. Unlike when FSN came out to much fanfare, Tsukihime seemed relegated to an era before the brief anime explosion, and was forever tied to its anime. Air had similar problems despite having an anime done by Kyoto Animation (before it became famous) as well, simply the wrong time to come out.

I'm trying to move away from TYPE-MOON works though. I used to be a regular at Beast's Lair ("Tekkusu" from "Marintekkusu"), but the fans have since become particularly rabid, and nutsy. I think it was the translation of Notes that got people all riled up.

Muv-Luv Alternative will be the first age game I've ever played, though I saw the Kimi Ga Nozomu Eien anime. It'll be interesting to see any references.

zeltrax225

What a coincidence.
You are playing 999? So am I..actually, not really..I can't find it patched and the rom still have AP on it, do you know where to get one patched or something like that?
But I played through the introduction and at the first room, the thing freezes on me cos of AP.
It was fun, took me a minute to realized that I have to use Everything I can find to get out, it's good logic.

For VNs, you should try Umineko and Higurashi, both are big hits, however they are more like "voice novels" than "visual novels"

edited: I assumed you're playing 999 on the ds, sorry for mistaking if you are not.

Malintex_Terek

I haven't started 999 yet. My friends (who own DS) got ahead of me and told me about its credentials, and so it's on my list, but I already comitted myself to Muv-Luv. However, I just heard Alternative isn't even a third done, so I'll be starting 999 pretty soon.

I watched Higurashi in 2006, and spoiled myself for Matsuribayashi-hen at the same time, so I felt little motivation to play the original game. I also can't stand Ryukishi07's artwork, so that was another check against playing the novel. Even Alchemist's updated artwork + voices weren't enough.

Umineko is another story. My friend is the translator for it, and I've managed to remain spoiler-free except for a few things:

! I know Frederica Berkanstel = Fuurude Rika, somehow. I also know there's a character called Battler, Lambdadelta, and people DIE. Also, Beato is a witch.

That's it. But Umineko isn't completely translated yet, so I'm holding off until everything's done so I can batch it. Frankly, I would have held off on Muv-Luv had I known Alternative wasn't done.

Lord Starfish

@Malintex_Terek:

I watched Higurashi in 2006, and spoiled myself for Matsuribayashi-hen at the same time, so I felt little motivation to play the original game. I also can't stand Ryukishi07's artwork, so that was another check against playing the novel. Even Alchemist's updated artwork + voices weren't enough.

Same here. I actually tried the Higurashi VN, but due to several reasons, I felt no motivation to continue after the first arc. Namely…

The artwork was hideous
The music was annoying
The pacing was so slow I felt it took away from the mood more than it added to it (Ironically, the anime has the opposite problem of being way too fast-paced and missing important details)
Having already seen the entire anime, much of the suspense was already gone due to me already knowing the outcome.

So because of that, I decided to stick to the anime and manga-adaptations. They were just much more enjoyable to me.

Anyway, I've played a few visual novels, but from what I understand, I haven't exactly been playing the "creme of the crop" of the genre, to put it like that. What I've played is…

Planetarian (Completed)
Wind -a breath of heart- (Completed)
Shuffle! (Completed)
Da Capo (3 routes, then my computer decided it was apparently a dangerous virus, and prevented me from playing any more. Seriously.)
Clannad (5 routes, ultimately lost interest despite it being the source material for my all-time favourite show)
ONE ~Kagayaku Kisetsu e~ (3 routes, didn't finish it because I thought it was too repetative)
Higurashi (Like I said, dropped it after one arc.)

Malintex_Terek

I know, right?

When Umineko's anime started airing, I decided to pull a wait-n-see before diving in and potentially ruining it for me, since I'd heard glowing reviews of it before the anime was born (usually 7th Expansion fans). The consensus is it's incomprehensible, a ridiculously horrible mess. A friend of mine saw the Higurashi anime, read the Higurashi mangas, then played the game, and felt that the order gave him a good understanding of the characters.

But he couldn't go six episodes into the Umineko anime, and instead tried out the VN and went through it all. My conclusion is, in spite of 7th Expansion's flaws, DEEN's anime is so atrocious it outweighs any negative in playing the VN.

Just curious, why didn't you finish CLANNAD? I can understand ONE, because it's a very crude pre-KEY work and its ideas were refined in Kanon, Air and CLANNAD. But I'd imagine if you loved KEY works, you loved their formula, so I can't imagine losing interest.

Maybe it was the light-orb thing that played such a role in Afterstory?

Pochipochi

Ohhh, what to say about VNs. So many years, so many titles I've worked through. My favorite titles tend to lead towards things like Narcissu, than the romantic. Instead of just covering all of the stuff I've played and making this a Me Post, I'll just say I'm really looking forward to Katawa Shoujo and currently playing 999: Nine Hours, Nine Persons, Nine Doors.

999 may wind up being flawless if it continues on the path it's been. It has the potential to kick Ever 17 to the curb, if one can believe it.

Katawa Shoujo is something that shouldn't be good, shouldn't sound good, and should wind up as gimmicky trash, but I was kind of mesmerized by the quality of its demo. I think if the final product is that good, it'll be worthwhile as any high grade VN.

My friend Archibald and I talk about VNs a lot and I've started to get back into things lately. Umineko was the only title I had read in over a year, but I'm playing catchup.

zeltrax225

@Malintex_Terek:

I know, right?

When Umineko's anime started airing, I decided to pull a wait-n-see before diving in and potentially ruining it for me, since I'd heard glowing reviews of it before the anime was born (usually 7th Expansion fans). The consensus is it's incomprehensible, a ridiculously horrible mess. A friend of mine saw the Higurashi anime, read the Higurashi mangas, then played the game, and felt that the order gave him a good understanding of the characters.

But he couldn't go six episodes into the Umineko anime, and instead tried out the VN and went through it all. My conclusion is, in spite of 7th Expansion's flaws, DEEN's anime is so atrocious it outweighs any negative in playing the VN.

I heard about it, people saying that the VN is much much better. Since I never tried the VN and only watch the anime, I thought it was okay, but don't get me wrong, it is still ridiculous and deen took only a few episodes to murder the entire thing, but since I dun play the VN, I have no idea.
I can't get the VN in my country, that's the thing, no matter how much I want to play it. Even if I do, I do not know how to read japanese.
..Back to the topic.

999: Is amazing, it sucks you in and never wants you to leave it until you get all the endings, it even gave me a sleepless night.. I'm one step away from the true(final) ending, and I have to say that it's one of the best VN..but since I don't play many VNs..
Anyway, you should give it a go soon.

Don't get me wrong, I still love Umineko and I know it's amazing.

Malintex_Terek

I guess I should report in on my Muv-Luv progress.

I'm not playing Alternative, but the first game, which is divided into two sections called Extra and Unlimited. I can't get to Unlimited until I beat Extra, and Extra's a bit of a bore. It's a typical harem slice-of-life in a prestegious Japanese academy, where logic is bent to serve the sexual needs of our protagonist, Takeru.

Takeru's a big douche, he's pretty abusive, hitting not only his childhood friend repeatedly in the head, but any other girl who pisses him off. His only redeeming quality in my eyes is he's not utterly pathetic like leads in similar situations are, but he hasn't done anything particularly manly or notable, either. He just hasn't turned into a wimp.

I also hate most of the girls. But Sumika, the childhood friend, has grown on me - I was annoyed by her antics in the beginning, though I sympathized because Takeru was so brutal toward her, but ever since Mieya appeared I've grown to like Sumika a lot. She's shifted a bit from "childhood friend who obviously wants to be a girlfriend" into a more believable, and IMV acceptable, friend role. Sure, she's still gunning for Takeru at the lunch-table, but at least I get the sense she's Takeru's friend. No one else in the story gives that kind of vibe except that kid Mikoto.

I also like Tamase, the girl with the cat motif, but I loathe Mieya, her maid squad and I don't care for the stuck up Student Council rep or that silent girl Kei.

I've heard this is 20 days long. Right now, I'm at the first Friday, so I guess that's day 7. Not even halfway through. -_-

@Holy:

Ohhh, what to say about VNs. So many years, so many titles I've worked through. My favorite titles tend to lead towards things like Narcissu, than the romantic.

What do you think of when you say "romantic"? Of the VNs I've played/heard of, the only one I'd call romantic is Saya no Uta, and that's in a subverted, really whacked up way that's hinted to have only occured because of coincidence.

Narcissu, I felt, was more romantic than stuff like Fate/stay night. It didn't adhere to the typical high school formula for attraction because of the two kids' weakness, so their rather silent cooperation conveyed a sense of mutual understanding that Shirou couldn't emulate with his clumsy words or pushing Saber out of the way of axe-clubs and what not.

@Holy:

999 may wind up being flawless if it continues on the path it's been. It has the potential to kick Ever 17 to the curb, if one can believe it.

Is that so? I tend toward skepticism (and my friend's view is it's good, but not as good) but I'd not be surprised. While Ever17 was truly a masterpiece, it had weaknesses, or at least was under-developed in some areas, so there was room to improve on near-perfection.

While Blick Winkel changed the way I viewed the ENTIRE world, I'd love to see a story that doesn't rely on a plot device like him or something supernatural like Higurashi's "Oyashiro-sama" and just have a really well placed mystery that can make the player go "OH MY GOD" at the end.

On Ever17,

! You're a woman, right? What did you think of Coco calling you "onii-chan"? I've heard varying experiences from "I thought it was cute" to "I thought it was totally weird", so I'm just curious.

@Holy:

Katawa Shoujo is something that shouldn't be good, shouldn't sound good, and should wind up as gimmicky trash, but I was kind of mesmerized by the quality of its demo. I think if the final product is that good, it'll be worthwhile as any high grade VN.

The development cycle for that game is really book-worthy, I wish folks had preserved it better so one could learn about the history. I actually signed up as a writer in the very first incarnation of the game, before programmers and artists got on-board with the project. In retrospect, it's a good thing I didn't stay, because I had no clue how to write for a VN or what makes a good quality story with good quality characters. I'm glad the team finally hammered out potential pitfalls like that.

@Holy:

My friend Archibald and I talk about VNs a lot and I've started to get back into things lately. Umineko was the only title I had read in over a year, but I'm playing catchup.

Did you see the anime? Mind giving an opinion on it? I ask because the generic answer to any VN to Anime adaption is "the VN is better, play it" but as I mentioned earlier, there are significant beefs I have with 7th Expansion's product.

@zeltrax225:

I heard about it, people saying that the VN is much much better. Since I never tried the VN and only watch the anime, I thought it was okay, but don't get me wrong, it is still ridiculous and deen took only a few episodes to murder the entire thing, but since I dun play the VN, I have no idea.
I can't get the VN in my country, that's the thing, no matter how much I want to play it. Even if I do, I do not know how to read japanese.
..Back to the topic.

What exactly happened?

Pochipochi

I am tired but I can't sleep which is the worst time to big posts, sorry if this isn't articulated as well as it could be, gonna try and be more concise

What do you think of when you say "romantic"?

Haha, my apologies, you would be right in your implication that "romantic" is a poor word to use in this context. Especially since, in retrospect, the kinds of VNs I am less interested in are only marginally distinguished, usually in subtle ways, from the ones I am drawn towards. In reality, what I should have stated was I tend to be less interested in the "choose your girl" romances, ala the works of KEY. That is not to say I am not interested in stories about relationships, or the interpersonal; quite the contrary, they are the genres I can potentially enjoy the most.

But while obviously they are given narratives that are not as simple as anything akin to a date simulator, the focus of the stories tends to be of the relationship between the protagonist and the female of choice, which is why I defined it as romantic earlier. Usually, they are handled in ways I find multitudes of issues with, or flat out are uninterested in. I suppose because the dynamics between the couple doesn't tend to be very balanced out. On the flipside, I have still enjoyed a few VNs of this variety, like Yume Miru Kusuri (which really embodies "flaws and all"), but that is due to my attraction with the bizarre, or surreal. Katawa Shoujo, a title I talked about being interested in above, is another one that falls into this category that I still like. But I have gone through so many derivative high school date-a-girl stories that were terrible. Bloop blugh.

Hope this made sense to you, I know it's a silly thing to really even point out to begin with, since like I said subtle distinguishing factors. I guess I'm kind of babbling on about unnecessary shit now though

! You're a woman, right? What did you think of Coco calling you "onii-chan"? I've heard varying experiences from "I thought it was cute" to "I thought it was totally weird", so I'm just curious.

! I thought it was goofy, but the Coco route being what it was, I didn't think too much on it. Kinda weird, though.

Is that so? I tend toward skepticism (and my friend's view is it's good, but not as good) but I'd not be surprised. While Ever17 was truly a masterpiece, it had weaknesses, or at least was under-developed in some areas, so there was room to improve on near-perfection.

Yeah, 999 could really end up that good. But, the important thing to keep in mind here: I'm in the middle of the fourth (out of six) playthroughs and so far it is still all questions and no answers, aside from implications. I should probably refrain from talking it up until I really actually know what's happening, but the buildup is so well-done and the characterizations and cast interactions so engrossing… I'd like to believe when answers are thrown my way, it's still just as good.

So we'll see. Good luck 999!

Lord Starfish

@Malintex_Terek:

Just curious, why didn't you finish CLANNAD? I can understand ONE, because it's a very crude pre-KEY work and its ideas were refined in Kanon, Air and CLANNAD. But I'd imagine if you loved KEY works, you loved their formula, so I can't imagine losing interest.

I'm actually not quite sure… It might have been the same "already seen it, already know the whole story"-thing that happened with Higurashi, or it might have been because I'd cleared all the routes that actually interested me, but couldn't access After Story yet because as far as I understand, that one requires you to have cleared all the other arcs. Actually, that might just be it, because I remember being rather unsure as to which route I should actually play next…

zeltrax225

@Malintex_Terek:

What exactly happened?

Just frustrated that my knowledge of Umineko is only thru the anime cos I can't get the VNs in my country.

It's a masterpiece, so they say..

Anyway, I finally finished 999. Nicely written story, captures emotions perfectly.

Samstrike

@zeltrax225:

Just frustrated that my knowledge of Umineko is only thru the anime cos I can't get the VNs in my country.

Not sure why you can get the anime but not the VN? You know that there is a fan english translation for the VN right so you can get the japanese version of the VN, apply the patch and you're ready to go. And the anime do suck compared to the VN!

Anyway i do like VNs. Here is what i have read :

Chaos;Head
Cross†Channel
Ever17 -the out of infinity-
Fate/stay night
Saya no Uta
Tsukihime
Umineko no Naku Koro ni
Umineko no Naku Koro ni Chiru (up to episode 7)
Utawarerumono

And all the Gyakuten Saiban because i guess they count as VN even if there is a lot of gameplay.

I'm currently reading Remember11 -the age of infinity-.

zeltrax225

@Samstrike:

Not sure why you can get the anime but not the VN? You know that there is a fan english translation for the VN right so you can get the japanese version of the VN, apply the patch and you're ready to go. And the anime do suck compared to the VN!

Anyway i do like VNs. Here is what i have read :

And all the Gyakuten Saiban because i guess they count as VN even if there is a lot of gameplay.

I know about Witch-Hunt. But I have no idea where to get the japanese version of the VN, at least not in my country.

Gyakuten Saiban can't really be considered as VN because of the many gameplay features..but it's still awesome.
Ofc I can find the anime, they are everywhere on the net.

Malintex_Terek

@zeltrax225:

Gyakuten Saiban can't really be considered as VN because of the many gameplay features..but it's still awesome.
Ofc I can find the anime, they are everywhere on the net.

It's still a VN.

Both Utawarerumono and Sengoku Rance have battle systems, but the majority of the story is still told through VN form. You could take out those battle systems and the story oriented part of the game wouldn't be affected.

@Samstrike:

Anyway i do like VNs. Here is what i have read :

Chaos;Head
Cross†Channel
Ever17 -the out of infinity-
Fate/stay night
Saya no Uta
Tsukihime
Umineko no Naku Koro ni
Umineko no Naku Koro ni Chiru (up to episode 7)
Utawarerumono

I'm currently reading Remember11 -the age of infinity-.

lol, that's a list after my own heart. And save Remember11 for January!

Samstrike, if you liked Utawarerumono, you'll love Sengoku Rance. Of the VNs I've played, only Ever17 beats it out, and I'm not even considering the game aspects of it. Just the quality of the characters, setting, music and humour.

Check out this piece of work:

dPj4g5_EtJA

Malintex_Terek

Bump-kick for status update! I've just polished off Muv-Luv Extra, and got to Muv-Luv Unlimited.

It rocked my face off. Physical changes:

1. I bit my lip so hard it bled.
2. I couldn't inhale for a good 2 minutes as the OP went off.
3. I had to shave twice in a row because the rush of androgens gave me a 5 o'clock shadow.
4. Lost the concept of sleep. What is this sleep? I just want to run around and train!

Truly, the massive hype and the drudgery through the path of pain that is Extra (which was actually well written, emotional and a great experience itself, once I got over my squeamish ways) was well worth it given the immediate gratification upon entering Unlimited. This is a magical, wondrous feeling. I haven't felt this excited in YEARS.

I AM SO PUUUMPED