General Ace Attorney/Phoenix Wright thread

Crossword

I'm in the middle of the final witch trial now. I'm currently bracing myself for the utterly ridiculous, plot hole-laden Layton-esque twist that I keep hearing it has at the end. It feels like the judge has gotten progressive more…Judge-like as the game has worn on.

Reading about Sherlock being in the new game reads like the writer's taking another stab at the Phoenix Wright/Professor Layton formula. And, if Watson can be depicted as a robot and Lucy Liu, I guess an eight-year-old girl isn't too out of the question, as bizarre as it is.

maxterdexter

Don't forget an oncologist.

Crossword

Beat the game. Took me just over thirty hours, so it definitely was one of the longer Ace Attorney games for me. A fifth of that time was probably from the final trial alone, given how the last half was literally non-stop exposition. Exhausting.

! Okay, so magic was really just invisible people and machines running around the town, okay, I'll suspend my disbelief for that (though they conspicuously never explained Godoor - was there a Shade running around with a sledgehammer and drywall just for the occasion?). But then we got to the "everyone's hypnotized with ink and the water makes them fall unconscious when silver's struck" and you could really see the writer reaching. Like, I know the Layton games have had "twists" like "we've been huffing fumes the whole time!", and "future London was built in an underground cavern beneath the real London without anyone noticing!" but I generally hold the Ace Attorney series to a higher standard than that.
! And then we get to the matter of the bell tower. Why didn't they just tear it down if Arthur and Newton were so worried about the effects it would have on their daughters? Throwing an invisibility cloak over it and calling it a day while I guess hoping no one ever bumped into it or noticed a shadow being cast by nothing…? The whole backstory of Labrynthia-as-therapy-slash-research-facility-for-not-Umbrela Inc. required the plot to twist into so many pretzels to work (and the whole thing doesn't seem to have worked, since Espella still tried to kill herself after the truth was revealed and hammered umpteen times!).
! And the whole "I have an incurable disease - wait nevermind" bit was dumb.

So yeah, I have very mixed feelings on how the plot turned out, but the game itself was pretty fun, and the presentation - graphics, music, etc. - was outstanding (minus the final puzzle being piss-easy). It looks like the next game Takumi's writing is a second crack at the formula without being tied down by Layton's baggage, so I'm looking forward to how that turns out.

Crossword

Featuring turn-of-the-century Payne.

Purple Hermit

Seems like 19th century technology had yet to be able to advance to hair pieces yet, unless that top knot is one.

rubia_ryu

Here's a link to a rough transcript of the trailer, courtesy of Court Records Forums.

With that amount of twirling and synched pointing, you'd think this was a promo for their appearances on IdolM@ster.

KageKageKing

Prosecutor:

!

captain usopp

popping in here, since it was bumped back up. I see Crossword played through the Phoenix/Layton crossover. I just finished that about a month ago. I think I was disappointed too. I'd never played a PL game, but I love PW.
Man, do I not want to play any PL games. People always told me "PL is awesome like Phoenix Wright" No. No they're not. they are totally different. I got the feeling, that the game was created by the PL company, and just borrowed stuff from PW to shoehorn in. I enjoyed the PW parts, but the game was disappointing.

but, yay. new game coming out.

Mr. Zoro

@captain:

Man, do I not want to play any PL games. People always told me "PL is awesome like Phoenix Wright" No. No they're not. they are totally different. I got the feeling, that the game was created by the PL company, and just borrowed stuff from PW to shoehorn in. I enjoyed the PW parts, but the game was disappointing.

but, yay. new game coming out.

Huh, it's really weird to hear that people would compare PL to PW. So much to the point that I didn't believe the crossover was a thing when it was first announced years ago, the two games are very different.

I'm curious as to why you wouldn't want to play PL. I love PL games, and part of me wants to convince you that not all PL games are like this one, but I haven't beaten it so I can't really say that for sure haha. I can only assume the style of gameplay isn't your thing?

Yobiyopi

About the new prosecutor, his epithet seems to be "Grim Reaper" (so Shinigami for jap), and given Sherlock's presence it could be either Moriarty or working with him. That or he could also be named after Jack the Ripper since it's 19th century.

Also:

!

! Aside the Missile themed game that everyone of us would want, another ost was revealed! And damn both of them are super good. I generally don't like how Layton ruined the crossover since it toned down the ace attorney part of it, but man the soundtrack composed by Yasumasu Kitagawa (that seems to be the composer for DGS too), was so good, i loved almost every track of it

black-leg jex

Yes Capcom! I love it. Also the prosecutor looks like edgeworth but a vampire

Cyan D. Funk

@KageKageKing:

Prosecutor:

! http://i.imgur.com/4lEGlTA.png

Baron Rudolph von Karma III of House Karma, here to educate the Japanese on how to be perfect.

captain usopp

@Mr.:

Huh, it's really weird to hear that people would compare PL to PW. So much to the point that I didn't believe the crossover was a thing when it was first announced years ago, the two games are very different.

I'm curious as to why you wouldn't want to play PL. I love PL games, and part of me wants to convince you that not all PL games are like this one, but I haven't beaten it so I can't really say that for sure haha. I can only assume the style of gameplay isn't your thing?

I think Layten, and that kid are as bland as white bread. Also, I hate the story. "Lets go to town. what. we can't get in without solving a puzzle. What, you won't let us drink tea without solving a puzzle. We need to solve a puzzle to reveal a hidden key." It's just dumb. That, and the whole story proccess STOPS dead in it's tracks to solve said stupid puzzles. It irritates me. If you want me to solve puzzles, don't throw in all this story crap. just give me the damn puzzles and stop pissing around with all this half ass story crap.

maxterdexter

Jezz, this reminds me of a puzzle.

Mr. Zoro

@captain:

I think Layten, and that kid are as bland as white bread. Also, I hate the story. "Lets go to town. what. we can't get in without solving a puzzle. What, you won't let us drink tea without solving a puzzle. We need to solve a puzzle to reveal a hidden key." It's just dumb. That, and the whole story proccess STOPS dead in it's tracks to solve said stupid puzzles. It irritates me. If you want me to solve puzzles, don't throw in all this story crap. just give me the damn puzzles and stop pissing around with all this half ass story crap.

Understandable. I think most PL fans are use to the structure of puzzles first and story second, whereas Ace Attorney has it's story come first. It doesn't bother me since I've come to expect that with PL games, but yeah, makes for some awkward pacing with the story.

captain usopp

i'm just big on story in games.

Zack

You'll are just jealous because you'll aren't as good as me and others at solving puzzles!

Green_vs_Red

If you wanna be technical the Ace Attorney games have puzzles as well. Between finding evidence during an investigation to figuring out what you have to use to counter a piece of testimony.

Zack

Meh. I just present every piece of evidence at every statement until I get it right. :ninja:

Green_vs_Red

@Zack:

Meh. I just present every piece of evidence at every statement until I get it right. :ninja:

Who doesn't do that?

Zack

I remember the worst parts of actually doing that was when I knew what the contradiction was, but I didn't know what of several evidence to use against one statement or the one right after it.

Yobiyopi

@Green_vs_Red:

If you wanna be technical the Ace Attorney games have puzzles as well. Between finding evidence during an investigation to figuring out what you have to use to counter a piece of testimony.

The difference is that every puzzle in ace attorney is part of the story itself, where layton puzzles ask you to find how many trees went to a tea party on the moon and it just doesnt add anything to the story (there are very few puzzles with story related outcomes).

Green_vs_Red

@Yobiyopi:

The difference is that every puzzle in ace attorney is part of the story itself.

Even then they're admittedly gimmicky and can easily shatter the immersion.

Bond en Avant

I think the puzzles in the PL/PW crossover were just too easy and too similar to each other.
The original PL games had much better puzzles and a lot more variety, so they're more enjoyable. The puzzles are tougher and are more related to the story compared to the ones in the crossover. (Also, I play US versions, so Luke's voice isn't as irritating…)
The PW segments were a lot of fun though. Having to follow the rules of magic made for a fresh and interesting take on the courtroom experience.

rubia_ryu

Speaking of mob cross-examinations, they're back in DGS. Even the new Jury battles are built upon that same concept. As usual, the "press everything" strategy is in tandem with victory.

More details @ Court-Records.

Check out the beautiful updated site. Whew~

Conekiller

Awww yeah, that's what I'm talkin about!

This has been the most prolific April Fools day in regards to actual, for real news relevant to my interests.

Crossword

This game looks like it's distilling all the best parts of the Layton crossover. It's really looking fantastic.

Cyan D. Funk

Jesus, the prosecutor is invoking Manfred really hard.

black-leg jex

Whose the voice actor for sherlock Holmes? He sounds really familiar

KageKageKing

My God.
The poses are almost Jojo levels. Almost.

Yobiyopi

Most polished game ever? Jesus look at the models, since it's also on 3ds is astonishing.

maxterdexter

@black-leg:

Whose the voice actor for sherlock Holmes? He sounds really familiar

Sugita: Gintoki, Karasuma, Joseph Joestar.

–- Update From New Post Merge ---

Oh god, Instabuy. It's glorious.

But the other defense attorney just triggered like 500 deathflags.

black-leg jex

@maxterdexter:

Sugita: Gintoki, Karasuma, Joseph joestar

I knew it! Yes please

KageKageKing

Also, Baron's VA is likely Takehito Koyasu aka Dio.

Crossword

That's actually Kenjiro Tsuda (Kaiba in Yu-Gi-Oh!, Vince in Space Brothers, and Inui in Prince of Tennis). I'd never forget that tone of complete disinterest.

Ike79

I'm really hyped for this. Let's hope it comes to the West.

Persian

I can't believe it's the first time I see this trailer! My reactions:
-It look awesome!
-Cool! Wright's ancestor is an attorney too!
-That prosecutor… Looks like Von Karma and Edgeworth have a common ancestor...
-Well... seem like the judge is the judge's almost identical ancestor... Or the judge is actually a time lord...
-Gotta love that jurist system, it make it more realist for the time this takes place.
-It's just me or one of that jurist is totally "Jack the Ripper"?
-Oh look, Payne's ancestor is in the game too...

Aaronrules380

@Persian:

I can't believe it's the first time I see this trailer! My reactions:
-It look awesome!
-Cool! Wright's ancestor is an attorney too!
-That prosecutor… Looks like Von Karma and Edgeworth have a common ancestor...
-Well... seem like the judge is the judge's almost identical ancestor... Or the judge is actually a time lord...
-Gotta love that jurist system, it make it more realist for the time this takes place.
-It's just me or one of that jurist is totally "Jack the Ripper"?
-Oh look, Payne's ancestor is in the game too...

Technically the reason the main series doesn't have a jury system is because the japanese legal system really doesn't have that.

Dumhuvud

I think the series could have ended with the Trials and Tribulations as I feel that the Phoenix Wright trilogy is pretty much perfect (yeah, including Justice For All) and that the other games haven't even been able to touch it in terms of quality and immersion (for me). I'm really looking forward to Dai Gyakuten Saiban though, it seems really interesting. I have doubts about whether they will localize it though - I think PLvsAA was pretty much only localized because Layton is big in Europe - and if we do get it, it might be as an eShop game like Dual Destinies (which I'll gladly take over not getting it at all, but still).

maxterdexter

Should have tried to graduate phoenix and continue the game with a full new cast, keep the engine and move on.

black-leg jex

@maxterdexter:

Should have tried to graduate phoenix and continue the game with a full new cast, keep the engine and move on.

That is what they tried to do. And it didn't work. I think that's what they are trying again with this new game

Dumhuvud

@maxterdexter:

Should have tried to graduate phoenix and continue the game with a full new cast, keep the engine and move on.

I agree with this, actually. All the games post-T&T feel like they have a lot of great concepts, moments and characters but don't really make consistently great games. They supposedly tried this with AA4 but the higher-ups wouldn't allow it, so Takumi added Phoenix to the plot. I think AJ:AA is the weakest game in the series for a lot of reasons, partially because it was so blatantly rushed and also because it felt like the writers didn't know which direction to take it to. The end result is a mess, but I'll admit the first case was very good.

Also I like how in DGS, dog!Sherlock's design is a reference to Sherlock Hound.

Green_vs_Red

@maxterdexter:

keep the engine

You mean keep the engine which was originally made for the GBA and is the reason why the original games look incredibly dated?

@black-leg:

I think that's what they are trying again with this new game

New game is a prequel though. And some of the characters are blantantly Xeroxed off of existing characters.

@Dumhuvud:

I think AJ:AA is the weakest game in the series for a lot of reasons, partially because it was so blatantly rushed

I never really felt Saiban 4 was rushed in any capacity.

rubia_ryu

GS4 wasn't exactly rushed in terms of the deadline; but it was rushed in terms of how messily the plot was resolved. If Takumi had earned plenty more time to review over his scenarios and maybe even include some ideas he had previously cut, it may have turned out to be very different and maybe even more well-received. Maybe.

GS5's case, though, was that it was green-lit but then delayed for so long; they had to bring it out sooner. Yet, it was the localization of that game which was legitimately rushed, with all the typos in the game by official release.

Dumhuvud

@Green_vs_Red:

I never really felt Saiban 4 was rushed in any capacity.

Well it's been years since I played it so my memories aren't all that clear, but I think rushed is putting it kindly. From what I remember, none of the main characters had much backstory or motivation to do what they do, and Klavier in particular didn't really have any personality beyond the rock star gimmick, and Trucy just felt like a slightly different Maya (although to be fair so did Ema in 1-5; I'm pretty tired of that character type in the series). In contrast, I really cared about the main characters by the end of Phoenix's first game and everyone felt quirky yet human. The plot of AJ went pretty much nowhere and raised more questions than it answered. People often say that it's as good as the first game and that Capcom just didn't give it another chance, but I strongly disagree - the original worked very well even as a standalone game while still making you want more, and it had a gripping plot with a dynamic cast of characters. While all four cases in AJ:AA had at least a few brilliant moments, I feel that quality-wise they ranged from trainwrecks (4-3, 4-4) to just dull (4-2).

On the other hand, there are a lot of things it did right: for starters, 4-1 might be my favorite introduction case in the series. Some of the supporting characters such as Olga, Valant and the Kitaki family were very endearing. Kristoph would have been a great villain if he had a better motive. The game also went for a darker atmosphere and it generally worked well. And if memory serves the humor felt wittier than in the original trilogy even though it had less jokes overall.

(I hope I don't get flamed for this, it's just what I think)

maxterdexter

@Green_vs_Red:

You mean keep the engine which was originally made for the GBA and is the reason why the original games look incredibly dated?

Badly worded, keep the gameplay and the improvements that would have been made for the hypothetical reboot, but went to Apollo's game.

Green_vs_Red

@rubia_ryu:

Yet, it was the localization of that game which was legitimately rushed, with all the typos in the game by official release.

Any video game coming out of japan is going to have typos or grammatical errors and the Saiban games are definitely no exception to the point I'd be shocked if any new game didn't have any typing errors.

@Dumhuvud:

Klavier in particular didn't really have any personality beyond the rock star gimmick,

Klavier was basically Edgeworth without the stuffiness and initial doucheary.

@Dumhuvud:

Trucy just felt like a slightly different Maya

I think that was the intention since they didn't want to move too far away from certain aspects that were introduced in the first game.

@Dumhuvud:

Trucy just felt like a slightly different Maya
I really cared about the main characters by the end of Phoenix's first game and everyone felt quirky yet human.

I'm one of the few people who wound up not caring for most of the original trilogy's recurring cast outside of Phoenix and Edgeworth

@rubia_ryu:

the original worked very well even as a standalone game while still making you want more, and it had a gripping plot

The first game didn't really have a plot since each case was standalone with it's own story and characters.

@Dumhuvud:

Kristoph would have been a great villain if he had a better motive.

That's one criticism I can actually agree with.

@Dumhuvud:

(I hope I don't get flamed for this, it's just what I think)

Nah just wondered why you felt it was rushed.

maxterdexter

Kristoph's motives were left to the black psylocks and the next game. That never came

–- Update From New Post Merge ---

Bad idea screwed further by what ultimately happened.

Cyan D. Funk

Klavier needed to flip out more.

Green_vs_Red

@maxterdexter:

Kristoph's motives were left to the black psylocks and the next game. That never came

I always thought all those secrets the black locks represented were revealed in court. And knowing Kristoph it involved some petty nonsense.