@Foolio:
- If people actually read my posts they wouldn't need to keep making incorrect assumptions?
Yeah, BTW, I fully understand you on both point and this wasn't ever me being like "Yo, Fool, your opinion is wrong about these things and you should feel bad." it was more "Maybe this is why people react the way they do?" It's a discussion forum so I'm just adding my two cents as to why I think people react the way they do.
@Foolio:
- Yeah no, when a reviewer gets DDOSed for not giving a 10/10 and lowering the aggregate score by an insignificant amount, I'm going to go ahead and say there's a shitload of people out there literally incapable of not only SEEING flaws but of handling someone else's view that the game isn't perfect. That's great if you enjoy the game and think it's the best game ever made, but I'm not going to back down from my opinion that some of my issues are objectively bad game design (where you can clearly see a clash/interference between multiple design elements). That doesn't mean objectively unfun or objectively a "problem" for everyone out there. There are plenty of cases in games where I go "hey, I can see how this would annoy other people and they probably should have handled this better, but it doesn't bother me personally at all." But what rubs ME the wrong was is when people go into elaborate contrived justifications for why bad decisions are actually genius decisions and anything potentially negative just gets converted into "being bold and different and changing the way you think about games." That's where blindness becomes a fair accusation.
At any rate that's completely off-topic from my point which is that I can offer criticisms, even strong ones, of different elements of a game and still think it's a good game. I have never once called Zelda a bad game.
I agree with everything you just said here, that all really sucks. I didn't know anyone was getting DDoS'd over any of it tbh. But unfortunately, extremist assholes exist in every group and while the stupid fanatics blindly salivating over the game exist, that doesn't invalidate the opinions of every person giving this game a perfect score. There are some extreme folks on the other side too. Metacritic got flooded with 0 and 1 reviews of the game, and a good chunk of them fully admitted to having never played the game, that say "This game is way overhyped so I'm posting a bad review to balance the scales". Not to mention the deluge of comments in several positive reviewers' comment sections accusing the reviewer of being paid off by Nintendo among other nasty things.
I'm probably guilty of a knee jerk reaction to folks like that and it's making me react to your more reasoned and rational points in a way that also comes off as shitty on my part, so I apologize about that.
I do really wanna stress that I'm not here to debate your opinion or anything, I was just trying ot make observations as to why some people might be put off. The blind crazy fanatics do exist, but when you're just someone who really loves the game, it kinda sucks feeling lumped in with them.
@Noqanky:
My question to that is why you feel he is addressing you in particular
See Above.
@Noqanky:
Look around the internet, including things like people ddos'ing Jim Sterling for a 7/10. Not to mention all the glowing reviews that didn't mention the flaws we are talking about.
Wouldn't you agree that the general climate right now is geared towards fanaticism?
I'm seeing fanaticism on both sides. I'm seeing people who criticize the game having their criticism dismissed out of hand, and I'm seeing people who genuinely love the game and don't see these things as flawed getting called blind fanboys/fangirls sucking Nintendo's dick.
I'm in the category who does really love the game, so I'm knee-jerking a bit at the latter and I realize that now and I am sorry about it since I realize it's peppered how I frame the things I'm saying here.
@Noqanky:
Other point: notice how many people are bringing up these flaws. Even if some people are affected less by it than other, as a study in design they are still flaws since their existence had the opposite of the intended effect on a segment of the demographic the game was aimed at.
Example: Star Fox Zero was fun to a lot of people who had no issue with it, but a lot of people didn't get into it as a result of the control scheme. That makes that control scheme a particularly questionable decision that stands as a huge counter to people enjoying the game.
Yeah, I'm in the camp who was able to get used to Star Fox Zero's controls and ended up liking it, but there was a really super stupid steep learning curve on them that really shouldn't have been there. Even tho I got used to them and even tho I was able to enjoy the game, there were still times where I was like "Wow, this would be better with a stick to control the camera…"
@Noqanky:
What is frustrating to people like foo and I is exactly that, that it become near impossible to really talk about what a game did right or wrong when mentioning something that seems off gets a barrage of counterposts with people just assuming that you just hate things, want to bring people down, or are just outright wrong because "Well I had fun"
I'm not trying to be that person, I'm trying to play devil's advocate a bit and maybe try to explain why that person might be doing what they're doing, but as I've already said, I do realize I'm knee-jerking and am getting defensive and again I apologize.
@Noqanky:
Other point: since you feel open to tell him about HOW he says things, let me be honest. The way you act and respond does lead one to immediately assume that you do not accept people criticizing things you like. Zelda thread has a lot of examples of this.
It's definitely not that, but again, I acknowledge I've been defensive and I realize this so I see how it would have given that impression, once again I apologize.
BTW: I'm not making an excuse, the asshole haters who are dismissing my opinion do exist and my irritation to them is valid, but It's entirely my fault that I let that pepper the way I deal with the more moderate folks. I should have caught myself, I should have realized you guys aren't those blind haters and I should not have let myself get defensive as a result. I'm not trying to excuse myself just explain myself.
I consider you guys friends and really kick myself hard at the idea that I've treated you badly.
@Noqanky:
Also, let's be real, doesn't it stand to reason that when you closed off entirely to negative reception of the game before it came out, maybe it is fair for us to assume you just wanted to like the game since before it came out
I just wanted to form my own opinion of the game independent of anybody else's influence, but I think I've said a few of the things I don't like about the game and a few things I think could be fixed.
I haven't experienced this myself, but I've read it's true and if it is, here's an absolutely major flaw for you: I've heard the Blood Moon can fully regen a boss' health, even if you're in the middle of fighting them. This apparently also applies to the final boss. If it's possible that you can spend a lot of time, energy, and potentially weapons and arrows fighting something, get it down to its last sliver of life, and then just have all that effort reversed because you happened to start the fight during the Blood Moon and not realize it? Yeah, that's a major flaw that really needs to be fixed by a patch or something.