Why do people hate James Cameron's Avaturd?

[Greg]

Every single critic I've read:

MOTHER OF GOD THIS RAISES THE BAR IN 3D AIMATION AND WILL BE LOOKED BACK UPON IN 70 YEARS AS THE FILM THAT OPENED THE DOORWAY TO COMPUTER ANIMATION AS A MEANS OF CONVEYI-

Yeah but what about the story?

Oh, well, it's like Dances with Wolves. Actually now that I think about it they did a lot more interesting things with the characters in that one. I wish they flesh out the Na'vi more…..BUT THE VISUALS OMIGOD I CAN'T BELIEVE WHA-

-_-

I'm past the age where stunning visuals could keep me glued to my seat for 160 minutes.

Normally I wouldn't care if it looked fun…but....it doesn't.

Said Greg who hasn't seen the movie or what it has to offer.

[Sesshy]

Seems kind of like Battle for Planet Terra with an evil military general leading an assault against a peaceful alien race.

[changsho]

I'm guessing this will be like Jurassic Park when it first came out.

The story might not be its strongest point, but it's still a good movie. If the plot truly sucks then it'll probably get worse reviews which are more like 2012's. So far that's not the case.

Besides we weren't promised revolutionary storytelling or anything. I think I'll go watch it… although I'm not sure I can handle nearly 3 hours of 3D =/

Maybe 2D?

[Battle Franky]

I saw it last night on IMAX 3D.

Honestly, the story is by no means treading new ground, but Jim's execution is near flawless, it really is. You've definitely seen this story before in some form, but the world itself; Pandora, the indigenous humanoid aliens, the Na'Vi, the marine aggressors, headed by the delightfully awesome Col. Quaritch (supremo badass) are just so well conceptualise and realised, that you should be able to make some small concessions in regards to the story, and be willing to take that familiar journey without letting your inner jaded movie cynic yell in your ear the entire time with "Nuuuuuuuuuur this is soooooo LAST OF THE MOHICANS DANCING WITH WOLVES FURN GULLY STARSHIP TROOPERS BLUES CLUES YIFF FEST DELGO".

AVATAR is truly EVENT CINEMA, if you're not seeing in full IMAX 3D or at least one of the lesser equivalents (Check and see if you're at a REALD 3D cinema) then half, possibility more of the AVATAR's true potential is instantly lost, and with at home 3D TV technology, capable of demonstrating the technological mastery of AVATAR years away from being a) Honed and perfected and b) anywhere reasonably affordable, I feel if you're seeing it in anything less than full 3D, you're completely undercutting the experience and yourself, and it possibly skewing a negative or middling opinion on the movie.

So if you're gonna see it, then do all you can to see in a true IMAX cinema or a something very close to it.

[changsho]

Fucking hell BF there are no superhuge screens nearby, let alone 3D ones

That means I have to wait til I get to the US again in January

FUCK

[Battle Franky]

As long as you see it in 3D at some point, chang! That's all that matters.

Though as a point of comparison it'd be interesting going from 2D/Regular 3D to IMAX 3D, just to see how much of a step up it is or…. isn't. :unsure:

[changsho]

Okay… 2D first then.

Oh, Cameron said something about sequels. As someone who already watched it, do you think it's a good idea?

As for the financing itself, I guess it truly depends on the box office performance. I doubt studios would want to spend another $300 mil on a fizzler. But if it does break the one billion dollar mark or something close to that (think Pirates of the Caribbean)... we might have a franchise on our hands.

[Hekti]

@Battle:

I saw it last night on IMAX 3D.

Honestly, the story is by no means treading new ground, but Jim's execution is near flawless, it really is. You've definitely seen this story before in some form, but the world itself; Pandora, the indigenous humanoid aliens, the Na'Vi, the marine aggressors, headed by the delightfully awesome Col. Quaritch (supremo badass) are just so well conceptualise and realised, that you should be able to make some small concessions in regards to the story, and be willing to take that familiar journey without letting your inner jaded movie cynic yell in your ear the entire time with "Nuuuuuuuuuur this is soooooo LAST OF THE MOHICANS DANCING WITH WOLVES FURN GULLY STARSHIP TROOPERS BLUES CLUES YIFF FEST DELGO".

AVATAR is truly EVENT CINEMA, if you're not seeing in full IMAX 3D or at least one of the lesser equivalents (Check and see if you're at a REALD 3D cinema) then half, possibility more of the AVATAR's true potential is instantly lost, and with at home 3D TV technology, capable of demonstrating the technological mastery of AVATAR years away from being a) Honed and perfected and b) anywhere reasonably affordable, I feel if you're seeing it in anything less than full 3D, you're completely undercutting the experience and yourself, and it possibly skewing a negative or middling opinion on the movie.

So if you're gonna see it, then do all you can to see in a true IMAX cinema or a something very close to it.

Saw it yesterday and totally agree.
The story is something you saw somewhere before but the animation of Pandora in 3D is just beautiful.
It's really like being there.

[Robby]

@changsho:

Okay… 2D first then.

Oh, Cameron said something about sequels. As someone who already watched it, do you think it's a good idea?

As for the financing itself, I guess it truly depends on the box office performance. I doubt studios would want to spend another $300 mil on a fizzler.

The next one wouldn't cost nearly as much. A LOT of that was development costs, and creating the technology. A sequal would already have tech ready for use, not to mention the mountains, rivers, mechs, aliens, and aother assets designed, cgi modeled, rendered, and ready to plop in.

the only shame for me is, I have lousy glasses adjusted vision, and my depth perception sucks. I'm pretty sure the 3-D treatment won't work for me. I'll have to see it in less inpiring lame-ol regular 2-D.

[Nobodyman]

I think 3-D is just a cheap gimmick anyway. I mean, I heard it was implemented well in this movie, but still it just seems unnecessary.

[Hekti]

@robbybedfart:

The next one wouldn't cost nearly as much. A LOT of that was development costs, and creating the technology. A sequal would already have tech ready for use, not to mention the mountains, rivers, mechs, aliens, and aother assets designed, cgi modeled, rendered, and ready to plop in.

the only shame for me is, I have lousy glasses adjusted vision, and my depth perception sucks. I'm pretty sure the 3-D treatment won't work for me. I'll have to see it in less inpiring lame-ol regular 2-D.

My buddy's almost blind without his glasses and the 3D effect worked for him (OK he had to wear the 3D glasses over his regular ones which looked ridiculous xD)

[Keraie]

@Hekti:

(OK he had to wear the 3D glasses over his regular ones which looked ridiculous xD)

Me and my friend have to do that every time we go to see a 3D (which is pretty often). :'D

I just saw the film, and… whoa. o3o I'm speechless, really! I never expected it to be that awesome!
Well yeah, the story is a bit cliché (it's almost the same as Disney's Atlantis: The Lost Empire, if anyone has seen that film), but I didn't mind of that. n____n
It was really well made; I loved all of the creatures it had! 3 And the music was simply beautiful; I'm definetly gonna buy the soundtrack!
One of the bests movies I have seen for a loooong time.

Sorry my english! >:

[DaeJi]

Well, last night a friend called me up and said that he had tickets to see the movie; won a raffle at his job (which is a lot more fun that mine). So he wanted to take me. I said I wasn't interested, but my friends know how to make me agree to stuff. Anyway, I saw the movie and here is my (non-spoiler) review:

Half a billion dollars and I was bored out of me mind. The last hour or so was alright and sort of entertaining, but the 60 or hours leading up to it convinced me that James Cameron has lost "the touch." His mind too. Yes, the visuals are amazing, but not game changing. If I really had to describe how this movie felt to me, I would say that Cameron really made this for his own enjoyment.

It's not a "bad" movie in the sense that it needs to win any Razzies. If you can look past the clique ridden plot, dull and lifeless characters, uninspired creature designs and the fact that it's a movie version of a furry's wet dream and just focus on the visuals, it's not a waste of three hours. And that's a lot of ifs.

[Darkariel]

Having seem this movie just a short while ago I can say that it's an Eyes Epic Travel, the visuals are really great and it's very pleasing to see specially if it's the full 3D experience

In regards to the story it kept me thinking I already saw this somewhere

[Wagomu]

Yeah, the story was cliche cowpoke and injuns with ultra hi/lo-tech weaponry. The world was quite amazing, though. The world really needs more giant floating mountains in the sky. The one thing that really stuck out as lame to me was the resource that the humans thought was the bee's knees. The nigh unobtainable 'unobtainium'.

[Robby]

You do know that unobtainium is an actual scientific word thats been in use for decades, right?

[changsho]

Just saw this last night on 3D. If you can, do yourself a favor and watch it on 3D too.

Although the story is very predictable, with few or no twists at all, it's still handled very well. There are small touches like

! Jake getting his head bopped while he's learning the language, which is really cute.

As for the visuals? The motion capture is perfect and you won't have a hard time thinking of the Na'vi as a real tribe of people. The environments are simply otherworldly, and combined with the 3D effects, you'll feel as if you're on Pandora.

Also, notes on Quatrich (spoiler for badass action sequence):

! When his big ship is going down, this guy climbed onto his mecha while still on FIRE, then leaped out and landed on the ground with a rifle and an attached chainsaw bayonet, as his ship crashed and exploded behind him.
! Christ all he needs is to say "I AIN'T GOT TIME TO BURN" and it'll be perfect

Sequels? Yes please. I for one can't wait for my next trip to Pandora.

[Wagomu]

@robbybedfart:

You do know that unobtainium is an actual scientific word thats been in use for decades, right?

Mostly as a joke. Even if it was used as a serious term, though, you would think that people who wrote an entire language could come up with even a semi-creative name.

[Robby]

@Wagomu:

Mostly as a joke. Even if it was used as a serious term, though, you would think that people who wrote an entire language could come up with even a semi-creative name.

Scientists aren't actually all that creative when it comes to naming things.

And it doesn't change the fact that it IS a real world term used to decribe elements that are so rare/impossible to get that they may as well not exist.

_Unobtainium is a facetious term for any extremely rare, costly, or physically impossible material needed to fulfill a given design for a given application. The name is a portmanteau derived from unobtainable + -ium (the suffix for a number of chemical elements). Variations include unobtanium and unattainium, with the same meaning.

The properties of any particular "unobtainium" depend on the intended use. For example, a pulley made of unobtainium might be massless and frictionless. However, if used in a nuclear rocket, unobtainium would be light, strong at high temperatures, and resistant to radiation damage.

The name unobtainium also closely resembles the systematic element name for undiscovered elements that have an atomic number of 100-199. Like unobtainium, these all have 5 syllable names beginning with "un" and ending in "ium". The term was, however, in use long before the IUPAC systematic names.

Another largely synonymous term includes wishalloy,[1] although the sense is often subtly different in that a wishalloy usually doesn't exist at all, whereas unobtainium may merely be unavailable. The term handwavium usually is used to indicate a material that probably cannot even in principle be real._

[changsho]

I call it "why-we-gotta-blow-up-blue-people-ium" =O

It was never explained what it was for though, or why it's so damn expensive.. unless I missed it.

Only that Earth is basically "destroyed/depleted"

[Wagomu]

This post is deleted!

[Wagomu]

@robbybedfart:

Scientists aren't actually all that creative when it comes to naming things.

And it doesn't change the fact that it IS a real world term used to decribe elements that are so rare/impossible to get that they may as well not exist.

It's a term describing bullshit. They might as well have called the alien race 'Unidentified Life Forms' and their language 'Gibberish'. It's uncreative and frankly stupid writing.

[changsho]

Don't know about stupid

But lazy, that's for sure

I also find it weird that Giovanni Ribisi's character (the corporate guy) gets some screentime showing his "conflicted" face while the Na'vi's being butchered, but in the end does nothing anyway. Maybe it's material for the sequel (if any)?

[Wagomu]

I think there were a lot of moments like that. They were trying to tap onto some mental conflicts, but failed to carry them through. For example, a couple characters bring up the implications of the main dude trying to be one of the Na'vi while it clashes with his human identity. By the end, though, those ideas get thrown out and he becomes one of them with no problem at all.

[Tizoc]

^what do you mean by 'human identity' exactly? Because from what I recall, he wanted to be a Na'vi full time, days after his first experience, and he got what he wanted at the end of the movie

@DaeJi:

the fact that it's a movie version of a furry's wet dream and just focus on the visuals, it's not a waste of three hours. And that's a lot of ifs.

It's only a furry's wet dream if you let it be a furry's wet dream, but the movie overall was great.
Dull and uninteresting characters/designs? The Na'vis represented creatures that were in tune and spiritual connection with nature, which is what the first hour of the movie showed.
The animals were just Pandora versions of animals on earth, obviously, but their artistic look was great and well thought…though what's the deal with the 6 legs?
The butterfly dragons were pretty cool and IMO were the best animals in the movie.

[Wagomu]

@Tizoc:

^what do you mean by 'human identity' exactly? Because from what I recall, he wanted to be a Na'vi full time, days after his first experience, and he got what he wanted at the end of the movie

He had at least one video log where he stated something along the lines of 'I'm going to have to wake up from this dream some time' referring to using the avatar. There was also some minor identity crisis stuff in at least one of the logs along with Sgt. Buzzkill telling him that he's still human. None of that really affected him, though, whenever he went blue.

[wolfwood]

This seriously was word for word pocahontas in space.

[DaeJi]

@Tizoc:

It's only a furry's wet dream if you let it be a furry's wet dream, but the movie overall was great.

It was a joke. A joke packed with truth, but none the less a joke.

Dull and uninteresting characters/designs? The Na'vis represented creatures that were in tune and spiritual connection with nature, which is what the first hour of the movie showed.

Every joke about this has been made already. It's Dances with Wolfs featuring the Thundercats.

The reason to see this movie is the visuals. They look great. It is an eye feast. The story, the characters, and the over design of the character and creatures (save two) are, at best, forgettable. If you like amazing visuals, see the movie. If you don't care for that, don't see it. Avatar isn't for everyone, but it is for a lot of people.

[CosmicDebris]

@wolfwood:

This seriously was word for word pocahontas in space.

I've been saying it's Dances with Wolves in space.

So yeah, you will walk in and realize you're watching a story you've seen before, but it is executed well, and visually stunning.

[Yoska]

I think Battle Franky said pretty much how I felt about the movie. A well made movie.

What really surprised me the most is despite having such an unusal plot element which is used a lot throughout the movie it still managed to stay cohesive and easy to understand. I think even my mom could watch this movie without getting confused about what is going on which by no means isn't a small feat for such a lengthy sci-fi movie with a weird plot device and all kinds of fantasy stuff.

[Hiroy]

I saw it today, but there were things about it that made the movie really boring. The narratives and skips were getting repetitive, the lead character was pretty bland, and the music did not fit the mood most of the time. I honestly feel asleep in the middle.

Other than that, I really liked what could be done with IMAX 3D. The atmosphere and design was also really inspiring. The creature designs and machines were downright epic from detail to the climax of that epic battle in the end of the movie. The story was promising but it was really too bad the script was just terrible to a point the characters seemed one-dimensional, or not giving me a reason to care(mainly all the Sky People).

In all, it was a pretty good visual fest but it did not hook me. Sorry. I could not walk out of there with that feeling that I saw something exceptional. I give it 3/5. Not bad, not great, but decent in terms of presenting a higher level of visuals with IMAX.

[Yoska]

Two things I forgot to say.

It is a live action movie but the movie felt a bit like animated feature-lenght film, too. This is a sort of film which kinda blurs the line between live action and animation.

Also, man, it was great to see Cameron still likes very strong-willed, kick ass female characters. Zoe Saldana should get a some sort award for her performance as Neytiri.

[wolfwood]

@Yoska:

Also, man, it was great to see Cameron still likes very strong-willed, kick ass female characters.

Up to there i was totaly with you, but i was thinking of Michellle Rodriguez character rather than the navi chick since i cant for the life of me see anything special in the stock character that she played.

[GaaraofTheDesert]

This movie was amazing..it had some typical cliches but it was a perfect experience.

[Flux]

Most people I know who saw it said it was epic.

[Nidhoeggr]

From a technical point of view: Stunning, amazing, simply breathtaking! Truly the next step in movie history
From the story point of view: Meh, another blockbuster

[Hiroy]

I should have worn my glasses for the movie, but they are broken until my appointment in Janurary. Reading those yellow subtitles was a big pain for me. I know for design purposes the type does not take away from the scenery too much, but a border on the font would have helped a little bit.

[Conekiller]

@wolfwood:

Up to there i was totaly with you, but i was thinking of Michellle Rodriguez character rather than the navi chick since i cant for the life of me see anything special in the stock character that she played.

This was the first EVER I have not been immediately and forever annoyed to hell with Michelle Rodriguez. That's an accomplishment in and of itself!

Hiroy> in 3D the subtitles had depth to them.

[Sakonosolo]

I saw it today (or technically yesterday) and I think it was really good. The CGI looked much better (at least I think) in the movie than they did on the commercials and I really liked the story, no matter how unoriginal it is. It was really long though, I actually had to go to the bathroom in the middle of it which is unusual. Not the best movie of the year, I still think D9 was better, but it was really good.

I saw the normal version, no 3D for me. It hurts my eyes usually. Plus when I went to the bathroom the line for the 3D version was from the front of the theatre to the back.

[Hiroy]

@Conekiller:

Hiroy> in 3D the subtitles had depth to them.

I still could not read them most of the time without squinting. I was sitting near the back in the middle. My regular eyesight isn't so great either, but I can make out type if it were white with a border.

Not the movie's fault though… I don't get my fixed glasses till next year.

[gogoedward]

@Nobodyman:

I think 3-D is just a cheap gimmick anyway. I mean, I heard it was implemented well in this movie, but still it just seems unnecessary.

Normally I agree, but this is the first movie where I actually felt that the extra money was well spent. The movie was very atmospheric, and the 3D only enhanced everything.

Going to echo what pretty much everyone in the world has said. Amazing visuals, and the 3D was more than just a gimmick for the first time ever, but the plot's been done a million times.

It's a rare situation though, for me at least, in that I was able to not care about the tired script because the movie was just so much fun to watch. Most big budgets blockbusters I could care less that the visuals look great if the script isn't great, but in this case the mediocre script didn't bother me in the least.

[Jedi Master]

WOW did not expect that to happen. Last week they made 70 something million in the BO, and this week it go up more then 3 times then last week…that will probably happen again next week too.

[CosmicDebris]

I saw it in again in 3D, I wasn't expecting it but I have to say it was worth going to a second time to see it in 3D, it was a cool experience.

[Puma]

I saw it the in saturday and i liked it, though the part when they explored the Pandora (especially the forest part) was boring and made me a bit sleepy (though the climax was the best part).

! I like that semi comic-relief character, though if i remember correctly, during the climax and when he reverted back to his human form, didn't he set out to battle (did he even wear a mask then??) and i expected him to do something special but it didn't happen and he just appeared again after the climax. I actually expected him to help Jake to deliver the finish to the General guy but Neytri (sp?) was probably more appropiate.
Btw, i remember that during the end when the sky people marched back to the planes there were a blue-man wearing clothes. I thought it was the guy mentioned above because of similiar outfit but he was shown in his human form right before….

This will probably be closest thing of a Live-Action smurf movie, imo.

Ps. Is it me or was this the year with more priority of good CGI than story?
Those i can think of (though there are exceptions on the story part): Up, D-9, Transformers, Avatar and so on.

[Greg]

Pretty terrible movie.

IMAX was beautiful no question. That was the best part.

But the 3D? Didn't really do anything for me, plus they still haven't fixed how strange shit looks in the foreground.

But there's a reason this film didn't, "Rock me into the brave new age of cinema."

I play Final Fantasy.

Yes, it was basically like watching one of Square's cutscenes for 3 hours. There's nothing new or unique about it. They just threw a shitload of money at it.

And I heard the story would be bad, but I didn't know it would actually be anti-human.

"…and the aliens went back to their dying planet."

Thanks guy. That's great that you condemned us all to die.

The Na'vi are in the right because they come from an ecosystem that's more advanced than ours? That's it?

I was actually rooting for the villains the whole way through.

I will say this though, female lead was an awesome character. Very believable and I don't mean the cgi, I mean her character. Very skillfully created.

The opening chase in the jungle was wicked and the only part where the 3D did anything for me.

The 'villain' is the first 'villain' in a long time that felt like a 'threat'. I love the escalation in the end battle.

Bring on Sherlock please. I want a movie where I can actually root for the hero.

[Kaze]

The story was horse shit. It's like looking at a very beautiful woman and not caring about what she says because she's so gorgeous.

[The Iceman]

Finally got around to seeing it in IMAX today, (saw it earlier in theaters), and I must say this without doubt one of the worst films I've ever had to sit through.

Epically & Visually stunning. But that's it.

It's so predictable, so drawn out, and the planet reminds me of the backdrop to those POG's from the '80's. Plus it seemed every element of the film was taken from some other Cameron film.

I figured since he'd been working on this film for the past decade the story would be decent, but guess not. Here's to a better sequel old boy.

[CosmicDebris]

@Greg:

The Na'vi are in the right because they come from an ecosystem that's more advanced than ours? That's it?

I thought it was that it was wrong to completely destroy theirs just because we were ok with destroying ours…I mean, if some alien race came and made a crater out of New York city just to get some mineral, we'd all blow them back to their planet too.

I'm pretty sure they could have found another method of getting that shit without blowing up the very center of their existence.

[Greg]

I thought it was that it was wrong to completely destroy theirs just because we were ok with destroying ours.

But is it our fault for trying to progress? The film is essentially arguing that because I don't turn the light off when I leave a room, Avatar will happen and the human race deserves to die.

Stupid.

And they happened to live on the energy rich material that, as far as I could gather from the film, didn't connect to the core of their lifestyle. It just happened to be under them and yeah they'd have to relocate but…is a thriving race relocating too much to ask to save a dying race?

I mean, if some alien race came and made a crater out of New York city just to get some mineral, we'd all blow them back to their planet too.

If they came in guns blazing? Hell yeah, we'd send Will Smith after them.

If they attempted to establish themselves with us peacefully and negotiate something, you can bet we'd listen. Unlike them.

Either way, I'd root for us because we're humans and well, I like my species. Whereas this movie was blatantly asking us to root against humanity because John Doe didn't recycle.

Not something I'm about to get excited over.

It didn't really even get me riled up until the end either with that idiotic monologue.

"The aliens went back to their dying planet."

Freakin' Na'aboo

[CosmicDebris]

@Greg:

But is it our fault for trying to progress? The film is essentially arguing that because I don't turn the light off when I leave a room, Avatar will happen and the human race deserves to die.

Stupid.

How do you equate turning a light off with completely destroying a race's home and network of communication and murdering hundreds in the process? You sure are reading a lot into things.

And they happened to live on the energy rich material that, as far as I could gather from the film, didn't connect to the core of their lifestyle. It just happened to be under them and yeah they'd have to relocate but…is a thriving race relocating too much to ask to save a dying race?

Tough ethical question but, I think if you turned it around and put us in the same position like I said before…like someone told us every human had to evacuate out of New York so they could make a big crater so they could get some mineral that will make them a lot of money, even if they asked nicely first, would you and the rest of humanity be like, OH SURE GO AHEAD! Especially knowing that most of them were just thinking we were a bunch of lower life forms that ultimately would have to be bombed if we didn't do what they asked. We don't KNOW whether the mineral was really important to the ecosystem of the planet, but even if it didn't have any meaning to the people there, the fact that they had to bulldoze down their home to get to it did.

If they came in guns blazing? Hell yeah, we'd send Will Smith after them.

If they attempted to establish themselves with us peacefully and negotiate something, you can bet we'd listen. Unlike them.

But if you were listening, while there were the scientists trying to communicate peacefully with them, they had a little success in the beginning but were kind of screwed by the fact that the rest of the people were machine gunning everything down and didn't give a rats ass about anything they cared about. The problem was that neither side would compromise and there was very little understanding between either race. I would think human enginuity would be able to figure out another way to get this mystery mineral unearthed, which , btw, they never really tell you what it's used for or how it would help earth other than lining the corporate head's pockets, in some other way than dropping bombs on heads.