Yeah… Isn't the power to connect through the weirwood using warg?
Game of Thrones (tv show thread)
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They are two different powers, greendreaming is going into the weirdwood.net and seing other times, warging is going into animals and people and taking control.
3DS FC: 0516-7666-3837
SW-4128-8032-0729
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@Song:
Greenseers had the greensight and were wargs as well.
Or so they said.
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Bloodraven never shows the possession part of warging (and Bloodraven was the kind of guy who would be using that shit to ruin people constantly).
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the raven can obviously warg as well. He is the last greenseer meaning he is one of the only ones who can do both: warg and also see into the past….
this is well established.
moving on. GRRM himself has said that he doesn't want this show to be about magic or magic systems and that he still wants this to be primarly a story about people "the only thing worth writing about is the human heart in conflict with itself". So while foolio is mad about this detracting away from the story, grrm himself has said that he won't do that despite all the high magic already, and the time travel only adds further to the magic system. So I don't get why the complaint.
Unless the showruners change that ofc. The book maybe will do a better job explaining the whole thing with hodor, but I won't like I've been complaining about cheap writing this entire season because D&D are hacks. I just don't think this was an example of that.
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or… we could talk about how we were shown a close up shot on a man's genitals (possibly with warts on it) for absolutely no reason whatsoever.
That was a nice start but I demand more. For every unnecessary tit shot I demand an equally long cock shot. Or balls. Butts don't count.
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fairly certain that cock was fake.
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Most filmed dicks are fake but I will settle for fake! It's a start. I've seen so many muffs on HBO. I know Lena Dunhams like the back of my hand. It's time for the dicks to rise!
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Well remember that I'm talking about paradoxical time travel. If someone wants to time travel just to romp around for fun then I don't have an inherent problem with it. With that in mind, for me it's simply that it's a really weak, unsatisfying plot device. At its worst it's a lazy, super cheap cop-out for why things happen. At best it's just something that doesn't really make sense (hence the paradox part), which is frustrating here since it's a world so driven by political intrigue and plotting and scheming and wars and alliances and outcasts struggling to survive. Suddenly the future is affecting the past and it makes everything pre-determined and leaves a sour taste in my mouth.
So yeah aside from comedy / something not meant to be taken seriously, or a work whose purpose is to explore the nature of time, I consider it automatically bad writing.
Is it a paradox though? Can the paradox not be resolved under the assumption that all events are deterministic and there's no free will? xD
Just thinking about this now though, I've realised why I don't have a problem with this instance of time shenanigans, and where I would draw the line. Here, it doesn't really make a difference. You could easily conceive that without Bran damaging Hodor in his childhood, Hodor would still be there with them in the present and carry Bran around and would still do what he did had Bran just warged into him and made it happen rather than there being any time travel, more or less. Within reasonable doubt.
If we start seeing a lot of stuff like say Bran influencing his past self or a lot of past significant events just being the result of Bran's manipulations, say, that would be too far for me (the first because it's unpleasantly mindbending when you try to think about something like character growth, and the second because it's too OP to be satisfying for me). Not that I have a problem with the idea of people having gone to the past and whispered things into the ears of various people here and there. That's basically a prophecy, and comes with the usual catches and caveats.
That's so subjective and waffly that I'm not surprised different people draw the line in different places
So Hodor was robbed of his childhood, abused as a slave/pokemon during adulthood and ultimately sacrificed by Bran cause he's "the chosen one"? How is this even remotely touching?
I'm probably missing something because people seem to be cool with it, but if not then that little shit just became my most hated character in the series. Not love to hate like Cersei, just hate hate.
I think it is supposed to be horrible, right? But in Bran's defence, it's not clear how aware he is of what he's doing. He's clearly conscious in the past so is he fully conscious of everything around Hodor, and so what's happening in the present? It's Meera who tells Hodor to hold the door, not Bran. Is Bran doing any more than willing Hodor to help? It's not really easy to tell, and how he reacts in future episodes to what he did might help clear that up.
And, uh, in Meera's defence, that was the 'right' thing to do from a tactical perspective. Everyone sacrificed themselves for Bran there, because he is useful to defeat the others. And, unlike Bloodraven, isn't stuck in a tree. (Okay, that wasn't Summer's reason, …)
Though, I'm not clear on how important Bran really is? He has some knowledge about the Others, sure. But Bloodraven had that already for a long time. If it's a matter of telling people something, surely Bloodraven could already have done it. And, there is the question of what he knows or is to learn that is actually essential. The Night's Watch in the TV series know already how to kill Others, through Sam with dragonglass and Jon with Valyrian steel. So ... why?
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All events are deterministic and there is no free will is worse than an open paradox.
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There's a lot of debate about whether causal loops are really paradoxical. I'd say that's pretty different from claiming that causal loops are "well within the realm of time paradoxes". Plenty of research suggests that there are in fact infinitely many self consistent causal loops for any given time traveler and time machine that creates closed time loops. Just because we're reading about one doesn't mean it was the only possible one, and it's a mistake to think that a singular causal loop existing is in itself a time paradox.
For an actual time travelling object, even the second law of thermodynamics can be upheld if the object is allowed to exchange entropy with its surroundings. In this case, there was no actual object that traveled, only information, so it's still well within the realm of possibility and not paradoxical whatsoever.
Now, you can still say you dislike the writing. But you can't say that it's stupid because it's impossible.
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I guess we'll just have to wait til we create time travel and test it out.
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I never said it's stupid because it's impossible. I said it's stupid because it's a cheap, unsatisfying plot device that basically leads to a deterministic universe.
But I don't know why you're treating this concept of time travel like a thing that actually exists and is researched (other than maybe theories involving quantum bullshit, but that's not going to help deal with actual time travel any more than studying electron tunneling is going to help me walk through walls). Unless you're going to go on about the possible non-linear nature of time or an infinite number of parallel universes or any of that stuff which is clearly NOT the conversation this story is trying to hold, then yes it is impossible and yes, me influencing my own past is paradoxical. The impossible part doesn't bother me that much because of the whole fantasy thing; lots of stuff we would call impossible happens. The paradox part does annoy me. ALL it does is weaken the storytelling.
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But it's only a paradox if it creates a self-contradictory (impossible) situation or series of events. Even then, these paradoxes can be resolved with multiple parallel timelines.
This doesn't even require that, though. It's just a self consistent causal loop, and there's no consensus, even among real physicists, that they are in any way paradoxical (and may in fact happen all around us all the time).
Again, you can dislike the writing, but that doesn't make it a paradox.
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I never said it's stupid because it's impossible. I said it's stupid because it's a cheap, unsatisfying plot device that basically leads to a deterministic universe.
But I don't know why you're treating this concept of time travel like a thing that actually exists and is researched (other than maybe theories involving quantum bullshit, but that's not going to help deal with actual time travel any more than studying electron tunneling is going to help me walk through walls). Unless you're going to go on about the possible non-linear nature of time or an infinite number of parallel universes or any of that stuff which is clearly NOT the conversation this story is trying to hold, then yes it is impossible and yes, me influencing my own past is paradoxical. The impossible part doesn't bother me that much because of the whole fantasy thing; lots of stuff we would call impossible happens. The paradox part does annoy me. ALL it does is weaken the storytelling.
just answer me this one thing please…
how do you know for sure that willys wouldn't have died the same way EVEN if he wasn't mind disabled by bran? what makes you so sure that bran did actually alter the timeline? -
just answer me this one thing please…
how do you know for sure that willys wouldn't have died the same way EVEN if he wasn't mind disabled by bran? what makes you so sure that bran did actually alter the timeline?The fact alone that Hodor became what he's now was certainly due to Bran's time travel shenanigans. Wheter or not Hodor becoming Hodor would change or not the outcome of anything else doesn't change the fact that Bran did mess with the past.
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Causal loops are one of the main things considered time paradoxes. It might not strictly fit the logical definition of the word "paradox" but that's what it's called. Seriously go Google it.
On the rest of the discussion, this is just going in circles. I still argue that the only reason Bran got to the point of altering the past, is that it was altered in the first place. Which makes it impossible no matter how you look at it. It means neither event could have come before the other, no matter how many timelines exist. Again, you can come up with some wild conception of the universe to fit it. Like maybe time doesn't really exist; all events in history just happen and time is just a weird lens through which we view some of them without any ability to actually influence them.
But you've got to have some perspective. From our current understanding of reality, from our own experiences, from the assumption that free will exists in some form, from our reference point for understanding / becoming immersed in a fantasy story, this is nothing but a paradox. Why do you think I took special effort to say that the topic is okay if the work is explicitly about exploring the nature of time? Because that's delving into its own huge theoreticals, in which (if done right) we are MEANT to question reality and go into some truly bizarre theories that take us way out of our current frame of reference. But you don't take that and apply it to normal fiction and then go "but that means it's not impossible!" I think you would be equally disgusted if a biopic of JFK ended with space mercenaries from the future warping back to kill him. Cause I mean hey, it's not impossible!
just answer me this one thing please…
how do you know for sure that willys wouldn't have died the same way EVEN if he wasn't mind disabled by bran? what makes you so sure that bran did actually alter the timeline?Because that would be truly ridiculous. He would be a completely different person under completely different circumstances, and as someone in this thread already pointed out, a ton of things that happened to Bran (such as him surviving situations) specifically revolve around who Hodor is. Again, anything is "possible." It's just not credible.
Plus, that doesn't really even have to be true for most of what we're talking about. Bran DID grow up with Hodor the way he is. Which already means Bran caused it. So when did he cause it? In a previous timeline? So what, history just re-writes itself at random in different timelines that sometimes just happen to affect each other, and this just happened to be one where Bran had both already done it last time, and now does it again? That is laughably tenuous and is going to crumble as soon as we find out all the other ways in which interacting with the past shaped the GoT world.
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I never said it's stupid because it's impossible. I said it's stupid because it's a cheap, unsatisfying plot device that basically leads to a deterministic universe.
I'm pretty sure they already have prophecy in the story. How would a prophecy even work without a deterministic universe?
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On the rest of the discussion, this is just going in circles. I still argue that the only reason Bran got to the point of altering the past, is that it was altered in the first place. Which makes it impossible no matter how you look at it. It means neither event could have come before the other, no matter how many timelines exist. Again, you can come up with some wild conception of the universe to fit it. Like maybe time doesn't really exist; all events in history just happen and time is just a weird lens through which we view some of them without any ability to actually influence them.
You don't have to suggest that time doesn't really exist, you simply have to admit that closed time loops are possible. There's no reason to assume that something that makes self-consistent sense (even if it doesn't mesh with our intuition about cause/effect) is impossible. There are plenty of examples in modern science of phenomena that clash with our intuition but are nonetheless real, detectable, possible things. Like energy becoming matter and vice versa.
But you've got to have some perspective. From our current understanding of reality, from our own experiences, from the assumption that free will exists in some form, from our reference point for understanding / becoming immersed in a fantasy story, this is nothing but a paradox. Why do you think I took special effort to say that the topic is okay if the work is explicitly about exploring the nature of time? Because that's delving into its own huge theoreticals, in which (if done right) we are MEANT to question reality and go into some truly bizarre theories that take us way out of our current frame of reference. But you don't take that and apply it to normal fiction and then go "but that means it's not impossible!" I think you would be equally disgusted if a biopic of JFK ended with space mercenaries from the future warping back to kill him. Cause I mean hey, it's not impossible!
There are plenty of fantasy stories that feature time travel and use magic as the explanation. Is it really so unbelievable that this magical world would have some form of time travel?
This sort of causal loop is not only possible in the real (non-magical) universe, but is certainly more plausible than other weird time travel situations because it is completely self consistent. It doesn't even require the existence of multiple universes or timelines to maintain logical consistency. It's simply a recursive series of events that could have always existed, like a fact of the GoT universe. There doesn't need to be an original timeline. This IS the original timeline. I fail to see why it's so hard to swallow, and I also fail to see why it's bad writing.
Probably just comes down to a difference of opinion. Which is why I think it's unusual that you're harping on and on about how unbelievable it is and how we should all agree that it was dumb.
Also, the blood raven said that he always knew Bran would arrive at the tree and "become him"… Does this clash with the idea that the universe is not only deterministic, but also on a time loop? No, in fact, it seems to confirm it.
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just answer me this one thing please…
how do you know for sure that willys wouldn't have died the same way EVEN if he wasn't mind disabled by bran? what makes you so sure that bran did actually alter the timeline?He transform a normal kid into a simpleton repeating Hodor(hold the door) endlessly. Brann action had a clear and observational impact.
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Reason I don't consider it a paradox is that, it did not change anything. There's nothing to prove that there exist a universe where Brann does not go in the past. So Brann travel is part of history as much as any casual moment of anyone's life. If he prove to actually be able to rewrite history than it becomes BS.
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I'll go after the deterministic, everything is, its written by an author. If its brought into the attention of the plot, then it is up to the author to see how the characters deal with their lack of free will.
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Funny how I never considered determinism as lack of free will. Just because you know your friend will punch you when you tell him you slept with his girlfriend doesn't mean it wasn't his choice. Brann chose to go to go explore the past and chose to warg. That it doesn't affect time does not mesn it is not his decision.
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I really don't see the problem with determinism. Everything that unfolds is still the consequence of people's actions - their free will. Knowledge that there's only one possible outcome is only problematic to those who know of it. That's Bran only. And all he knows is that whether he decides to change something in the past or not, it doesn't matter. The timeline that is exists with that decision in mind.
Every goddamn episode of That's so Raven is her seeing the future and trying to prevent it. Which she never does. Because the future is the future that will be if she sees the future. Its unavoidable. Annoying to watch.
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I remember liking that show. She really sucked at using her power tho.
I watched it just to watch something. Up to a certain age. It had that "disney" flavor that I dislike in all their shows.
Bran power's are cool. Her's are actually quite horrible. Daily batch of determinism. Would drive a person mad.
Just thought of Minority Report. I like that movie. Unique for Spielberg.
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This whole thread now
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I'm pretty sure they already have prophecy in the story. How would a prophecy even work without a deterministic universe?
In a general sense, prophecies are much different. They are usually vague, and nobody knows when or how (or IF!) they will come true. Maybe times you could say they are self-fulfilling, in that they happen because people were looking for them to happen (or in classic ironic tragedy, because they were trying to prevent them, i.e. Oedipus). In any case they are not by necessity set in stone, forcing all of history to go a certain way. Visions of the future can also always be seen as POSSIBLE outcomes, not pre-determined ones. They can also be misinterpreted, misapplied, you name it. It's not the same ballpark.
You don't have to suggest that time doesn't really exist, you simply have to admit that closed time loops are possible. There's no reason to assume that something that makes self-consistent sense (even if it doesn't mesh with our intuition about cause/effect) is impossible. There are plenty of examples in modern science of phenomena that clash with our intuition but are nonetheless real, detectable, possible things. Like energy becoming matter and vice versa.
So let's assume that closed time loops are possible and yet time as a linear concept exists. Explain to me how two events years apart that are co-dependent can happen. If time is a thing, one of them came first. But each event depends on the other having already happened. So neither can come first. Even if time is looping, that loop has no possible entry point. Therefore time, or at least our concept of time, cannot exist. Please tell me you understand why that's a paradox. You can't compare it to other non-intuitive concepts because those have explanations that don't shatter our entire reality.
There are plenty of fantasy stories that feature time travel and use magic as the explanation. Is it really so unbelievable that this magical world would have some form of time travel?
This sort of causal loop is not only possible in the real (non-magical) universe, but is certainly more plausible than other weird time travel situations because it is completely self consistent. It doesn't even require the existence of multiple universes or timelines to maintain logical consistency. It's simply a recursive series of events that could have always existed, like a fact of the GoT universe. There doesn't need to be an original timeline. This IS the original timeline. I fail to see why it's so hard to swallow, and I also fail to see why it's bad writing.
Yeah you just don't get my point. Most of this should already be addressed by my previous paragraph, otherwise I'm done trying.
Probably just comes down to a difference of opinion. Which is why I think it's unusual that you're harping on and on about how unbelievable it is and how we should all agree that it was dumb.
I never said anyone had to agree with my opinion that it's awful. My debate with you is about what a time loop implies and whether it's a paradox. Which I stress is an absolutely CLASSIC example of what a time paradox is and shouldn't even be up for debate. But that's aside from my opinion that time loops are unsatisfying, lazy plot devices that remove free will from the story's participants and lessen my immersion.
Reason I don't consider it a paradox is that, it did not change anything. There's nothing to prove that there exist a universe where Brann does not go in the past. So Brann travel is part of history as much as any casual moment of anyone's life. If he prove to actually be able to rewrite history than it becomes BS.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Causal_loop
I'll go after the deterministic, everything is, its written by an author. If its brought into the attention of the plot, then it is up to the author to see how the characters deal with their lack of free will.
Yes obviously it is fiction and the author has complete control. But that's kind of beside the point. As consumers of fiction we try to see the characters as real people, not just the figments of an author's imagination. And when I follow intrigue and see the results of some complex series of events, I don't want things in the end to happen "because they were supposed to." I mean the fact that JRRM kills off so many prominent characters actually makes him better than most at that – plot armor is largely stripped. This particular thing is bugging me from a different angle now though.
Funny how I never considered determinism as lack of free will. Just because you know your friend will punch you when you tell him you slept with his girlfriend doesn't mean it wasn't his choice. Brann chose to go to go explore the past and chose to warg. That it doesn't affect time does not mesn it is not his decision.
A deterministic world means everything that ever happens is already defined. It does not mean being able to predict the obvious outcome of an action. It means every action that happens was always going to happen. There is no free will if all of history is already written. Which is pretty much the implication of causal loops.
I really don't see the problem with determinism. Everything that unfolds is still the consequence of people's actions - their free will. Knowledge that there's only one possible outcome is only problematic to those who know of it. That's Bran only. And all he knows is that whether he decides to change something in the past or not, it doesn't matter. The timeline that is exists with that decision in mind.
See this is insightful. Though I don't know if Bran himself is thinking to himself all of a sudden that none of his actions matter because the timeline exists with his actions and past-mucking taken into account. But if he did, he would become boring. And that's the problem. We, as viewers, are among those knowledgeable ones now. I would like to see things unfold linearly and have everything that happens be a consequence of the actions taken. Not including someone creating time loops to affect the history that up until now has be so carefully woven to build the world. I don't suddenly want to find out that all of these mysteries or events happened "because time travel." That just doesn't do it for me.
Every goddamn episode of That's so Raven is her seeing the future and trying to prevent it. Which she never does. Because the future is the future that will be if she sees the future. Its unavoidable. Annoying to watch.
Minority Report is basically about this specific case.
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I remember liking that show. She really sucked at using her power tho.
They implied that she was young and couldn't control it yet. She had a grandmother or something in the show that we find out has the same powers, but can control it better.
I like to believe that Raven left high school and joined the X-Men.
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And as long expected, the Games of Thrones thread became about That's So Raven.
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Foolio, what came first is immaterial as soon as you acknowledge the existence of the time loop. It's simply a truth of the universe, like the existence of space and time itself. That causal loop is simply something fundamental to the universe that is and always was - at least for the span of linear time that it encompasses. Yes, it's a chicken-and-egg scenario, but that's based on the assumption that causality works the same way in a loop that it does in linear time, which is simply not the case.
In a causal loop, everything is self referential and recursive, and that's just how it works. Talking about what came first on a time scale longer than the loop itself simply doesn't make sense, but that doesn't mean that the causal loop itself is paradoxical - it just doesn't use the same logic that you'd expect in wholly linear time.
It's like when people say that God has always existed. You don't ask what created God - God exists outside of the concept of linear time, and so there's no point in talking about what came before.
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Anyway, all that said, it's possible that Bran's causal loop is still able to influence the future outside of the loop. Just because this loop exists (which should imply the futility of Bran's free will) does not mean that all the other characters' free wills are equally impotent. The other characters may exist on a main stream of time that originates earlier than Bran can travel back, and will continue to flow past the end of Bran's life (arguably the farthest into the future that the loop could reach). Bran may be able to interact with and influence people on this portion of the main stream without fundamentally altering his own causal loop, but that doesn't mean he couldn't influence people to affect the future after the end of his life.
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Yeah, okay. So you don't want to call it a paradox because you just want to assume it as the fundamental, not-understood-or-explained structure of the universe. I don't even have to liken it to religion because you already did it yourself. I don't get what that buys you. Doesn't change the fact that, like I said, it implies a complete stripping of what we accept as reality and know to be possible. It's no different from claiming the concept of time doesn't really exist. It also definitely means we don't have free will.
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@Monkey:
And as long expected, the Games of Thrones thread became about That's So Raven.
I'm totally down for that at this point.
That's So Three-Eyed Raven!
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I'm totally down for that at this point.
That's So Three-Eyed Raven!
Rickon's in the House
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The Suite Life of Sam and Gilly, and its sequel, The Suite Life Belowdecks
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Sansa Montansa?
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[Bloodraven]
If you could gaze into the future
You might think that life would be a breeze
Seeing Blackfyres from a distance
But it wasn't that easyI tried to save the situation
Then I end up on on the Wall[Aegon V]
Hey now, what you say now, 'bout to put you down
Come on and take a ride up North now
And the realm looks great now
and everything's gonna change-BURNS TO DEATH SLOWLY AND HORRIBLY[Bloodrave]
That's Bloodraven, it's the future I can see
That's Bloodraven, now I'm stuck in a treeYeah, that's me.
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See this is insightful. Though I don't know if Bran himself is thinking to himself all of a sudden that none of his actions matter because the timeline exists with his actions and past-mucking taken into account. But if he did, he would become boring. And that's the problem. We, as viewers, are among those knowledgeable ones now. I would like to see things unfold linearly and have everything that happens be a consequence of the actions taken. Not including someone creating time loops to affect the history that up until now has be so carefully woven to build the world. I don't suddenly want to find out that all of these mysteries or events happened "because time travel." That just doesn't do it for me.
Sorry, misspoke. In regards to Bran, his outlook going forward, isn't that the future is set but that the past cannot be altered. Yes, the future may be determined, he may now know it is, but he does not know what the future will be, and therefore his actions are not motivated by anything other than what he chooses. That information is actually quite worthless. I know I will die one day. That is determined. I'm still drinking Red Bull though, hastening that day.
What happened to Hodor is a very unique incident. Now, if Bran starts to warg into someone from the past without a connection to their present self, now that'd be quite different. Bran's powers are meant to give him knowledge. If you are worried that for example Robert's Rebellion happened because Bran or the Raven messed with something, like having Raegar give Lyanna the rose, or whispering into the Mad King's ear (who was mad to begin with, so …), I get that, but I don't think that's gonna happen.
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We don't Actualy know if the past is trully immobile, we migth already be in another loop, that bran is molding his past once and again through bloodraven. And while he can change the past, he has to keep making certain choices to get to a point where he can Actualy chose.
Think branching paths, without him being crippled, and having hodor, he doesnt get to train his powers greatly to make an impact.
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Another GoT Disney show:
"Snow-y with a Chance"
Hidden:
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We know the past is immobile because Bran's present is based on it. He didn't change anything. So even if his actions make some "change" to the past whatever that "change" is, is already a part of Bran's present and future.
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We know the past is immobile because Bran's present is based on it. He didn't change anything. So even if his actions make some "change" to the past whatever that "change" is, is already a part of Bran's present and future.
We are asuming that. It could be that he has created a new timeline, or that he needed to do it to avoid changing the timeline. I've heard that grrm other works with time travel it is more of "you can change it" than this closed loop of causality.
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Another GoT Disney show:
"Snow-y with a Chance"
i was imaging jon snow singing the "let it go"song with his black cote. lucky i wasnt drinking anything
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Wow, it has been ages but I've been waiting for so long for this character to show his face again.
! Welcome back you crazy old coot, GoT felt naked without Walder Frey
! Oh..and same goes for Cat's brother, Benjen Stark and…whoever else showed up
! All that matters is Walder Frey -
! Another theory confirmed true. So many theories are being confirmed now. This is what happens when you take too long to write the story, other people do it for you and it's not surprising that two people on the Internet have managed to predict the entire story according to grrm.
! It seems like the theory that the 3eyed raven misused his power and made the mad king mad might be true. It would make sense as that was his lesson in not using the power too much and he learned his lesson and wanted to teach to be responsible to bran. Also, maybe the burn them all might be the 3eyed raven telling him to burn the white walkers.
! It could also be that the 3eyed raven and bran are actually the same person. The raven said its time for you to become me. and benjan refers to him as the raven. Probably another time paradox thingy.Kings landing thing was predictable. It's bearable but the plot really needs to get going. also, good chance ladystonheart might actually happen.
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heartsbane is officially my favorite sword from game of thrones.
! okay episode, liked how benjen stark came and save them, very badass. oh and now we know of another way to revive people, as he died from the whitewalkers and was revived by bloodraven with the dragonglass stab.
! i liked how sam developed in this episode, no longer being his father's bitch.
! arya leaving the faceless men was nice as well, she never was a nobody and she doesn't want to murder innocents. she just wants what's on her list and now she's capable enough to kill them, if she can kill the waif that is. because it seems like the faceless men is another "it shall not end until my death" group.
! i hope walder gets killed in the worst way possible, i hate him. -
guys,i don't really care about the nature of time in the GOT universe,and instead wanted to point out that bran is a total moronic ass.i mean,his incessant curiosity has now lead to the death of all the trees,his wolf and hodor.not to mention he practically destroyed willis's mental health,turning him into hodor.i think he should just kill himself now and atone for his existence
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guys,i don't really care about the nature of time in the GOT universe,and instead wanted to point out that bran is a total moronic ass.i mean,his incessant curiosity has now lead to the death of all the trees,his wolf and hodor.not to mention he practically destroyed willis's mental health,turning him into hodor.i think he should just kill himself now and atone for his existence
It's not like he knew what would happen. Also the Three Eyed Raven was being very cryptic about this stuff, so I would say that's partially his fault.
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When arya is curious about assassins and dubious moral practices she's a hero, when bran is curious about his misterious powers and climbing abilities, he's a douche. Got it
3DS FC: 0516-7666-3837
SW-4128-8032-0729
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This was a meh episode. Not bad, not good, but not great. Very much in the vein of a One Piece bridge chapter in that we are moving characters into their positions for episodes down the line. Like most of those bridge chapters this episode will probably be better once you can binge watch them.
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Another theory confirmed true. So many theories are being confirmed now. This is what happens when you take too long to write the story, other people do it for you and it's not surprising that two people on the Internet have managed to predict the entire story according to grrm.
All that means is that he's a good author and he's been playing fair with the audience.
Also, that there's millions of viewers and readers so there is a lot of mass guessing and comparing of notes.
Happens all the time with popular works with large audiences. Fans here have a lot of One Piece's various future threads figured out pretty well.
If nobody had gotten it right by now it would mean either he hadn't seen enough fan theories, or that the ending was going to be a complete asspull that went against all the groundwork and buildup.
Also helps that the tv show has his notes to go by.
